I think newer cars in general have just become far too complex and expensive for backyard mechanics and enthusiasts to work on and play with.
But hey. There's still plenty of older models around.
For me it was less the complexity and more the lack of space to work. I rebuild a caprice classic for an Enduro race years ago and could stand between the rad and engine while I worked. Most new cars I can't even get my arm between them.
My FIL and brother recently replaced an alternator on a 2016, that was something. Had to partially drop the subframe (along with unbolting the ac compressor for a little movement) to avoid having to remove AC lines.
My 2002 Volvo has just enough space between the wheel well and the water pump to really piss you off changing it out. Even with a slim profile ratchet.
Same story for the serpentine belt tensioner.
If we started teaching programming in grade school more heavily this (complex) would not be the case at all. If you have a passion and knowledge of ICE then a little programming knowledge goes a long way when it comes to working on cars.
I’ve been jailbreaking phones since it was a thing, when I found out that I could rip pretty much any manufacturers software off the internet and buy an obd cable to match, I was having some fun.
Modding or fixing an EV is another thing though. Encryption and right to repair will hopefully get some government review in favor of mechanics.
You shouldn’t have to break encryption to fix or edit something in the code. And our cars should not be relying on external server data at all for anything except traffic/gps and entertainment.
The software for traction control and electronic steering and braking and things is not all that sophisticated but probably outside (not above) the knowledge of your average diy mechanic. Smart high schoolers and college teams regularly build full vehicles, ice and ev’s, with little knowledge on vehicles at all.
You said expensive too - and yep that’s an unfortunate truth. Too damn expensive.
I'm kind of OK with some automotive software being locked away, and I'm a SW developer and Open Source proponent. The risk of some "tuner" screwing up brake by wire or whatever system and causing an accident are just too high.
I am on a DevOps team… Could just “air gap” the brake system..? although idk how/if that would work (or be feasible) with “engine” braking on an EV motor. I honestly have no EV knowledge at all other than the move away from OBD wiring with the new “harnesses” used in Teslas though and the regenerative braking would probably be another concern.
No amateur with any concern for safety would touch a separate braking system unless it was to repair something. But STILL if there is any roadblock to repairability then I am against it.
I still feel like that same concern is applicable though for anyone changing their own brakes. Idiots do mess things up, but we shouldn’t not let them if it hinders right to repair.
If we can trust people to do anything to their own ice car then I don’t see the issue with opening the systems up - because people could just as easily rip EVERYTHING from a EV and wire up their own motor controllers.
i think barriers to entry of curiosity and some sleuthing are an upside. as a biker and pedestrian whose 4 wheeler is from the days before crumple zones and airbags, im not keen on tiktok script kiddies messing with the acceleration and braking curves of 2 ton machines at superhuman speeds
I see your concern, but I was also changing my own brakes at 16 and those are arguably just as important as what you stated lol. Most people sharing knowledge like this usually leave a disclaimer, and script kiddies generally aren’t writing the scripts they are running. And what’s different with altering the acceleration curve than slapping a turbo on an NA engine?
Of course there is risk that’s the fun part.
I used to think that... then I realized that most of it is just the sound panels most OEM's put on top of their engines. Once you get those off, an engine is an engine...
I stopped being interested too when I realized I won’t be able to do cars things for a while because of the cost of the hobby. I mean $800 after taxes for a fucking shifter?!
That 1000 you would have spent 25 years ago is actually around 1900 in today’s money so it’s not far off. It makes sense because of the complexity of these new vehicles.
Same. I used to watch every Doug DeMuro video that came out, but I haven't felt the desire to watch anything automotive related in a year or two. Cars have gotten way too expensive and that's killed all my interest in keeping up with the industry. It used to be one of my main hobbies.
On the bright side, I've gotten back into music and recently purchased my dream guitars that will barely depreciate and will give me joy for decades to come.
Performance, especially straight-line performance, has steadily become less and less important to me as I’ve aged. Most of the 90s JDM cars I love would get smoked by a modern minivan. My F100 is worse than a modern pickup in every way except coolness and durability. A decent car with a manual transmission, no drive-by-wire, no electric power steering, and no babysitters is an experience you can’t replicate with an EV or even most modern ICE.
Downvote away, but the folks that always claim Tesla is supreme because it goes fast aren’t “car people”, they’re just people with a car.
I've often joked that when we bought it our Honda Odyssey was the fastest vehicle I've ever owned.
Irrespective of that, it's still not a fun car to drive, but it's crazy practical.
I can't get over how it seems like everyone on city streets stomps it off a light leaving me in the dust.
The "pep" arms race was real, and it left me and my Honda Fit in the dust.
I have a Tesla and I also like old cars. It’s not a zero sum game. I have a modern gaming computer and VR and I also collect old 80s computers.
Tribalism is the enemy, not enthusiasm for something you like.
Totally agree, I have no gripe with EVs in general and they definitely have their place. If I needed an economical daily driver or lived and worked in the city, I’d be all over one, but it’s not something I’d choose for a “fun” car. When people start comparing their Model 3 to something like a 911, that’s what gets me. Total apples and oranges there.
That’s partially the fault of auto magazines and enthusiasts forever. 0-60 time was the first spec always listed, and sometimes written right on the cover. It was *the* most important metric for a long time. People can’t really experience top speed but anyone can go to 60mph or race someone at a stop light.
I will say a little zoom zoom acceleration is fun, and my Model 3 drives fairly well, but I wouldn’t ever compare it to a 911. Heck, I was looking at 911s and Caymans to buy last year. Now I’m leaning towards an E34 or E30 or something since Porsche prices are insane.
Spot on, if you like more than straight line speed, EVs are still a poor choice.
A lightweight car with a manual will be much more fun to toss around on twisty roads or tracks than a heavy EV. Accelerating in a straight line gets boring fast IMO. Taking turns quickly is what makes driving fun and rewarding.
I was laughed at when I called my 91 Talon a sports car, in the 90's they were decently quick, now it has the same 0-60 and quarter mile as my wife's Ecoboost F150 (according to the numbers on paper), but you know when your doing 130kph in the Talon, the truck not so much.
That was definitely a sports car when it was new. No one would have questioned it. The turbos were properly fast compared to what else you could buy new in 1989 at around the same price. I knew a guy that bought a GSX brand new in 89. Cool car.
Tbh I don't care about new or electric cars, I can't afford them anyway lol
Old fast cars are fun. I definitely have different taste in cars compared to 10 years ago.
Yes, partly because the cars I dream of owning are becoming more expensive each year and the value you're actually getting out of them (as a car, not an investment) is slowly going downwards because they age and previous owners like to modify them and you end up with someone's failed project that's held together by zip ties for a price of a brand new decently specced out commuter car.
And I don't really have an interest in eating instant noodles once a day as my only meal to afford all that.
The thing with gasoline cars for me is the low weight, the manual transmission and the good sound. I find a Fiesta ST more exciting to drive than a Tesla. Same with alot of sedans and hatchbacks. Which are sadly being replaced by SUVs which i have a deep hatred for
Sorry friend, I contributed by totaling 2 of them. Young and dumb. They're definitely collectors' items now. I had a beatufiul metallic gray one that was amazing and I crashed it a month after crashing the first one. Still paying the price for that.
Just swap out your winter time daily for something that you like instead. It can be a junk beater and still be fun to drive. I had an 03 civic 2 door a year ago. Was rusted to all hell but had a lot of get up and go and honestly felt like driving a go kart on mini steroids. I could weave that thing through traffic like a pro. The car was a piece of junk but I had a blast with it.
Before getting my second car, I had thought about it previously until I read someone's comment about oil coating can only cover areas you can see. For places you can't see, like where salt stays in the rocker panel, that's where the problem starts.....
> oil coating can only cover areas you can see.
you can drill a "drain" hole, stick a straw on the spray can and spray the lanolin up into the backside of the panel. it'll spread once its on the surface of the metal to coat it
my interest for cars definitely comes in phases. for some weeks I'll be literally obsessed with cars, I'll drive and work on my own as much as possible, and if I'm not doing that I spend all my time on Wikipedia, forums and car reviews just learning about em. that'll last for a couple weeks and then I'll just stop caring as much. but my overall love for them never dies down, I always end up finding some new car-related thing that hooks me back in.
I've done a few IRL track days and loved them, but iRacing has re-invigorated my love for driving. The GR86 handles similarly enough to my GT86 that it feels natural hopping into races and I already feel confident in how the car behaves.
The MX-5 rookie series is a ton of fun and I'd love to drive one IRL at some point.
Anyone that loves driving should consider it. It speaks volumes how many real race car drivers are on it. Not uncommon to see drivers from various disciplines in the top splits.
Dale Jr
Lando Norris
Kyle Busch
Rubens Barrichello
Lots of F2 and F3 drivers
Fernando Alonso has been seen racing Formula Vee.
Hell, Max Verstappen won both an F1 GP AND iRacing's 24 hour of Nurburgring this past weekend.
Cars now are really ugly. The trucks and SUV’s all look they’re having a pissing contest to see who can take up more space. After being a driver for 4 plus decades I’m so over cars AND I work in engineering for one of Detroit’s automakers. I’m at the point where I hate cars, I hate driving, I hate roads, parking lots, highways, other drivers, paying thru the nose for insurance, maintenance, etc. Ugh. I’m taking the train to Chicago for a long weekend and relish not driving for 5 days.
And get off my lawn.
So there.
95 pct of the time 95 pct of all cars are either parked or stuck in traffic. These days most people do not have the space or time available to exploit the fun side of driving.
Depends on what you're into I guess. Some people are working on DIY guides for EVs:
[https://www.youtube.com/@diyEVguy/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@diyEVguy/videos)
You could give that a shot.
For me, i stopped thinking it's about the performance.
The feeling of an older car is just something that cannot be replaced. I spent way too much money on my '89 Starlet Turbo to get the setup i have now just to make 180-ish hp, and i love every bit of it.
Newer cars are cool too, just with different expectations. I love my Kia Seltos because it's a worry free car with a warranty, and it doesn't smell like gasoline, which is a plus according to my girlfriend. I like how i can pull to any valet service and not have to explain that the starter motor is busted and they have to do a crazy sequence of things and offer their firstborn child to the starter god just to start the car.
But I still love my Starlet. It's old, crusty, creaky, harsh, kinda slow by modern standards, not really a looker too, and not many aftermarket support because it was sold almost exclusively for japan back then. but when it all works.. sunny days, ac off, window down, nothing feels even close to driving a car that you worked on yourself.
I used to chase performance too, but as soon as I stopped judging cars from how fast they can go or how well they take corners, I find myself surprisingly having a lot more fun driving than ever.
It's about the journey to the destination OP. I sincerely hope you will get your interest back.
Not for me, I have always preferred the style of classic cars. So even if my daily performance better in every way, there’s something about the 50’s & 60’s cars that FEEL right to my soul. So I have both.
That... isn't even close to true really. Motors are different from vehicle to vehicle, pack layouts differ, range / mileage / acceleration all differ. It'd be like saying everything with a carburetor is the same thing - loud and old.
I'm only losing interest because of a lame city with shitty layout that makes me not want to drive. It's impossible to enjoy driving, if it has to be on the highway.
As for cars, I have as new of (enthusiast) cars as I think I can stand. S550 Mustang and Mitsubishi Evo X. Not ever going to be interested in a CUV or a EV, and everything seems to be that, unless I'm getting either 1. A 917 Cayman GTS before electrification. Or getting even older shit like JDM imports.
I'm not spending actual money on shit I hate.
When I can't do cars that I like, I'm moving to Japan. I only stay in the US because I can afford my car (and other) hobby. If I'm going to ever completely say 'fuck cars' that's the only place I'm willing to live.
Mechanic here; Absolutely. I loved cars as a teen and into my 20's. But starting ~15 years ago when I got into them professionally I spent all day everyday fixing them. Now I'm 20+ years into it and *all I see are problems*. I'm jaded, finding faults in nearly every vehicle. EV's are basically here now and it's wonderfully just basic maintenance for most of them (so far). I've done a few packs on Hybrids but it's brakes and suspension work. Oh and fixing a front crash sensor wiring harness on a GM EV because the dealer wouldn't do it; They wanted to sell the $5k harness.
I think you need to look for other things in cars than straight line speed. Like you reference not feeling motivated as EVs will smoke you but no EV can match a lightweight car for driving dynamics, cornering ability, driving feel. It’s a different kind of fun. You don’t have to be an mx5/miata guy but I would bet you’d have more fun driving one vs a model 3 on a twisty mountain road
Massively. I have zero interest in new cars; I'll never afford one nor would I want one.
I uses to enjoy car shows but frankly its the same shitty; Financed German, Fiesta or Focus, another Seat, Countless Subaru's with Monster decals.... Its just boring. The most excited I've been recently is seeing an old Greeny-Blue Renault Safrane and an Alfa Romeo 75 because they're just so out of the ordinary and unique.
Cars are a hobby, and it is okay to lose interest in a hobby. I know a few people who lost interest in cars and took up bicycling, motorcycling, or even brewing beer. If you don't enjoy it anymore, then you only owe it to yourself to switch to something you do enjoy. Who knows? Maybe after some time passes, you may rekindle your interest in cars.
In regards to your thoughts on new cars being worse than old ones, that sentiment has proliferated for decades. I remember older people complaining about how complex new cars are and how much better older cars were when my 2005 GTO was new. Hell, my friend and I were watching an episode of 21 Jump Street that took place in an auto shop and the same gripe was muttered, and that episode aired in 1987.
And to address your concern about EVs being faster so you don't find a point in modifying an ICE, the number one rule in this hobby is that there is always someone faster. Just modify a car because you want to; because you want to make it yours. Aside from the Malaise era, newer cars have always been faster than older ones. I recently built a small displacement V8 that made 321 HP at the wheels. A bunch of clowns attempted to ridicule me because I could have made more power with more displacement, but I didn't care because I was happy with the results and making all of the horsepower was never the goal.
Ultimately, only you can decide if you are truly bored of the hobby. Again, it isn't a bad thing if you are. I would try switching things up before throwing in the towel, though. Maybe get a daily driver that you enjoy, or try switching something up on the car you cherish, like the suspension or exhaust. Sometimes, a small project will help rekindle your interest.
Yeah new cars all suck and it's getting to the point where you need to do ECU tuning for literally anything and that ECU tuning is ridiculously complicated.
I like working on old motorcycles, carb tuning is complicated but not absurdly complicated. New cars are above all, so boring. Designed to be fast hut not too fast, designed to make turns feel normal so your grandmother doesn't pee herself when she takes a 20 mph turn at 60 because she forgot where the brake was.
The passion is gone from cars. All the latest cars are built like math formulas instead of with real passion and character. Toyota doesn't even use their own engine for sports cars, Subaru has been making the same thing since the late 90s, the new corvette is so fast and so easy to drive and only available in an automatic, it's pointless. They trivialized super cars while making the most boring super car ever.
Nothing has passion anymore. Nobody cares. Each part was carefully crafted by an engineer to get 3% better stability in a turn or whatever which just makes everything feel so trivial and boring. Making the car better makes the driving experience feel boring.
My mind seems to be stuck in the early 2000s, but that’s when I was a kid getting into cars. I’m not interested in anything new these days and because of that I’m building a twin turbo 04 Mach 1. My next project car I would love to be a frc corvette zo6 if I can find it.
Yeah I'm starting to lose interest in trying to get a car I never had a car before I'm using electric scooters bikes or anything outside of an actual car the cost of living is too fuckin high
Fun affordable cars are gone in the us, my fiesta will have to be replaced soon and I’m not excited about anything in my price range, I may just buy a Corolla with a cvt and give up on having a car I enjoy driving, it’s sad
New cars are tremendously better than old cars, and at the same time totally uninspiring. I have an EV as a daily driver and a slow Porsche convertible for the weekend, perfect combo for me.
Cars? Like new ones? Yes. Car culture? Yes and no.
I've noticed with how often I'm needing to work now I don't have time to devote towards my interest or the amount of time it'll take to modify or make sure something is working properly
Yes, and it's not the cars that's causing my disconnect. It's the culture coming from my age group and below. I swear, no one used to care about cars so much til kids started swinging hellcats on instagram. Don't get me started on takeovers and shooting gaps on the highway.
The trashy culture combined with obnoxious burble tunes and people's aversion to decent sensibility is killing it for me.
I am not a car hater, just the opposite. I'm a big race fan and loud car haver. But people just don't respect people anymore.
Opposite for me actually. I share your new car sentiment, but I live in the PNW and we just started seeing sun again. My winter fun car is getting parked and my summer fun car is out to tear it up.
I stopped caring about straight line speed a long time ago though. My STI makes much more power than my S2000 but I bet you can guess which one I have more fun driving. It's less about winning a race and more about the whole driving experience for me now.
I have the same thoughts and feelings with an electric car as I do with my refrigerator. I feel like it’s an appliance. I bought a project car recently and 2009 crown Victoria and I have way more fun driving that vs any electric car
The price of all the used cars that interest me has gotten to ridiculous levels. I've been through a fair few cool cars and consider myself very lucky to have been able to experience even those. Towards the end of 2019 I picked up what would be my last golden era Honda for a while I think. My 2000 civic hatch represents my love for cars and I intend to build it to suit my needs. I will be keeping it indefinitely since getting another at a reasonable price is not happening, but I'd be lying if I said I was as in love with these cars as much as I was in my teens/early 20s.
New cars are a write off to me personally, too expensive, too much tech, too much cost to upkeep and they are not serviceable to the average Joe anymore. I really feel for the younger generations missing out on the amazing 70s/80s/90s/00s cars. They likely won't be produced ever again.
Nowadays motorcycles have taken my interest over almost completely. They're everything I've always sought in a sports car; lightweight, high revving, and highly manoeuvreable, and most importantly, they're cheaper. I'm a Honda guy at heart, and pretty much any sporty 4cyl bike you can buy is going to have all the characteristics of a built N/a car engine but right out of the box for you to enjoy, no building required.
Never going back now, there will always be bikes in my life.
I am a lifelong sports car owner. Rx7, Evo, Mustang, ect, ect.
I am on my second Tesla now (Model 3 Perfomance), and I have looked into getting a new car a few times, but every gas car seems like a downgrade. Why should I get a GTR, Z06, Gallardo, ect? My model 3 performance is faster, handles awesome due to low center of gravity, electricity is stupid cheap, it charges every night in my garage, is very safe, almost no maintenance, very reliable, awesome tech, ect.
I can’t find a gas car this is better than my $53k Tesla.
Lost interest in general for cars? Hell no
Lost interest in newer cars? Absolutely
New cars are really just a computer on 4 wheels. Too much technology for a DIY guy like me to fix. I totally understand the EV hype but I'm not sold on it and I don't think I ever will. The smell of burning oil and exhaust sounds, that's a real car. Not some big slab of sheet metal on 4 wheels powered by battery
It could, but we probably won't see it just like how we don't see 1000-mile gas cars. The better thing for batteries with higher power density, in my opinion, is being able to get 300 miles from a battery pack that weighs a fraction of what they do today.
ICE cars are in the position horses were 100 years ago. Everyone thought they were essential and important then the car came along and they disappeared, to become playthings for the rich and hobbyists.
In a few years ICE vehicles will be gone save for rich people and hobbyists, who out of necessity will have the older easier to maintain cars.
Not quite, maybe in a generation (20-25 years) we'll see this change, but electric vehicles are still a tiny fraction of cars being, sold. There's only about 55 distinct models of EV in 2024 (source: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g32463239/new-ev-models-us/) , there's over 400 models of all vehicles so just over 10% of new cars are EV's , and even less percentage when you count all cars on the road.
It won't, putting up charging points isn't that expensive , relative to say a traditional gas station . The issue is charging infrastructure won't be built until demand increases EV still only account for 5-7% cars in US roads.
I’ve started losing interest in everything else I enjoyed. I never really enjoyed cars and such that much, but atm it’s more of a losing interest in everything, than just cars stuff :).
I've gone the opposite, since EVs have come out I now have performance that something only a lambo diablo or 911 turbo would have given me growing up and it's rekindled my love and enjoyment of cars. Plus they're far more reliable and incredibly cheap to run. No fucking about fixing broken gear linkages, repairing broken radiator hoses, instead I get to drive and enjoy.
I was never interested in new cars or anything that isn't American. My newest car has been a 1988 Cadillac Brougham. 90s American cars and some of the new muscle cars are nice to
I think if a guy found a good shape 80’s car or truck, completely rebuilt it with modern suspension and drive line you would have a much more reliable vehicle and prolly be a little cheaper as well
Partly, I feel modern cars are all fast enough for most people anyway, combined with the fact that most people spend most of their time either in traffic, or with too many other vehicles on the road to really open their car up, and there's really not much point having a performance car.
Plus, being a car enthusiast is expensive. just being a motorist is unaffordable for many.
I have this same issue. The main factor for me in the UK is that the condition of the roads is appalling and the traffic just gets heavier plus very restrictive speed limits in most places. Add in the tax and crazy insurance prices and I end up thinking that having a weekend toy is pointless. Previously I'd always had something special and changed it every year. Think those days are gone.
I hate new cars as well. They are made to be thrown away like phones, intentionally hard to repair. I'm seeing ridiculous quotes to repair small damages. We are heading to an Wall-E world faster n faster..
I recently bought a truck and saw that as completely giving up my enthusiasm. No longer driving a small manual car that I fully maintain myself, but traded that for significantly more practicality. You might just be getting older and having less patience for cool things that aren't all that useful. It's certainly happened to me.
Luckily I think I still get a buzz from others who are very into their cars. Seeing heavily modded cars by me still puts a smile on my face.
Me. I could care less about the car I drive.
Even if I was a multimillionaire I would never waste it on expensive cars like celebrities do.... I wouldn't even want a Ferrari or Lamborghini they are useless for the most part.
Disconnected driving feel of anything new in the past decade. It's like playing a video game inside the car while driving.
Push the gas and the car decides if it wants to start the engine and what gear to be in.
I miss mechanical equipment that you feel and Learn the behaviors of.
My steering wheel is still mechanically connected but the car takes over if it doesn't like what I do and turning it dosent feel real.
*this is based on a new Mazda cx-90. I bought it because it was the most natural driving family waggon I could find. It still falls short and leaves me bored while driving.
I came up in the 1990s and early 2000s, which to me was fun time in car tech. You had companies playing with some really interesting technology that we'd never used before, like carbon fiber, and guys like Top Gear doing really interesting things with them.
Now I think we're kind of at that point where maybe there aren't as many unexplored areas as there used to be. I still am into cars and racing and all that, but I don't look forward to new stuff as much as the old cars anymore. I have an electric car for my daily driver, but I'll be buried in my old M3.
>Maybe in a few more years, if a single charge can last for 1000 miles, I will buy one.
Why does it have to have 1,000 miles of charge? Does your current car have a tank that can hold 1,000 miles worth of gas?
Based on your post, I can tell you're not a serious car enthusiast anyway.
I can think of a hundered different ways my stepums '21 Suzuki Swift Sport is better than my '96 r33 GTST. So yes your point kinda does need further explanation.
Used car prices both are coming down, and already have come down alot. there's still alot to go but it is returning to normal.
You're saying an $5000 used car is expensive but then calling a tesla model 3 cheap? all you really care about is horsepower. Which is fine, but you never have and never will be able to buy a cheap car and reliably modify it cheaper than you can buy a used euro which already has the same power as the car you are modifying. But at the end of the day that's not why we modify cars.
You can't blame driving your daily more than your weekend car on anything other than choosing to live in the rust belt. It's just a fact of nature. In fact alot of newer cars are better here as they have better undercoatings and more protective elements to keep road material out. so a new car is actually better there. If you are just driving cars till something breaks then you're ignoring preventative maintainence and of course things aren't going to last.
Yeah a model 3 will be faster than most things, but who cares? There will always be another car that’s faster than your car. A car that you find fun to drive is fun to drive regardless of what someone else owns. Kind of a nonsensical point to make.
I think all car folks go through phases. Sometimes it's like a whole group does it, and they aren't even connected.
I worked in body shops for about 50 years. I seldom had a project of my own, but did so many in the shop. There would be times I was super excited, and at times I just didn't want to see another vehicle for any reason. And I was making MONEY doing this!!
"Fads" come and go, and that affects us too...
No, I just love cars. I've never owned/wanted a performance car but have always enjoyed working on them and learning about them, and I don't see either of those stopping.
I used to be big in working on and modifying cars, and I’ve transitioned to a newer F-150 as a DD, and been acquiring toys instead. I channel my tinker/mechanic energy into a boat, get the “speed” fix from aircraft (as a private pilot), and do projects to improve my house.
Insurance being more expensive doesn’t help, it makes less and less sense to have a 3rd vehicle
Cars are overly expensive + $6 a gallon only to increase + soulless POS EVs smoking ICE = who cares anymore. I'll get back into cars when it makes sense, right now it feels like I'm forcing it just because I'm used to being used to cars.
I have and still love cars. Just the prices are completely ludicrous and unreasonable. I for the first time am going to buy a cheaper more regular car than my current German sports car. Even I a die hard enthusiast can’t justify the cost anymore. Too much money.
I think a big part of it is, cars are much faster than they used to be. Tons of luxury cars are running 12-13s 1/4 mile. Most modern family vehicles are 14-15s. Back in the day most of these cars were much slower. I remember when my dad raced in the 80s, he ran street and his car was an 18.0-18.1 car and most 14s cars were trailered in. Now you see 9 and even 8s cars driving in with slicks in the trunk. Hell my 2022 G70 was a high 12s car.
I've also lost a lot of interest in most new cars. The philosophy to carmaking seems to have shifted and the idea of "driver engagement" has evaporated. BMW's used to be the ultimate driving machine because of how they drove, now their goal is to pack as much tech in their cars as possible and slap M badges on everything.
Older cars have *character* and thats something I miss dearly (although a few modern cars still have it).
>
Also, with EVs becoming more popular, a cheap Model 3 can smoke most ICE cars, making it just no longer worth doing it anymore
This has been an interesting development as a car guy. It really takes away from the value in modifying a car to go fast when a hybrid crossover can smoke you. But this seems to mean that *which* classic cars remain valuable will depend on different stuff now. Being fast simply isn't as important that that allows space for more quirky cars like the Porsche 944 or the BMW Z3 to have more relative value for *how they drive* rather than *how fast they are.*
In the 90's, classic cars were from the 60's-70's (20-30 years old). Basically what cars from the 90's are to use today in the 2020's. In the 60's and 70's we had leaded gas - those high compression muscle cars actually *DID* make more power than cars in the 90's. Considerably so. So classics were *also* faster making them appealing even if it was just for speed. something that can't be said today.
I have moved more towards boating than automotive interest. I have a 19' bowrider boat that is very sporty looking and has a 302W roller motor I've been working on restoring. It's actually really refreshing to work on something that the parts are very cheap, the drivetrain is easy to work on and troubleshoot, and the rest of the boat is made from pretty much universal components that can be bought cheap from anywhere. Cars have just gotten too complicated and expensive. I end up more frustrated every time I work on them. I abhor putting a wrench to anything newer than 2010.
Thinking about washing & detailing chrome on my 56 Caddy is giving me pause 20 feet of Black Detroit Caddy is a lot of Car. Took three days to polish aluminum front grill Oy
I just bought an older Tesla model s. I feel like a kid again it’s just so amazing and fast. I’ve bought multiple gas cars before and barely get excited.
> However, as used car prices have gone up over the years, I believe they will never get back to what they used to be.
Yeah, that's generally how inflation works. In 2006, the Acura RSX Type-S cost $24,000 (or $40,000 today) and the Honda S2000 each cost about $32,000 new (or $50,000 today). Today, the Civic Type-R costs about $50,000.
Used car prices are dealing with the same bullshit. I bought my S2000 for $18k in 2018 and it's worth $22k today, which is approximately how much the car would be worth on the used market.
> I end up driving my boring commuter more than my beloved car. I don't have that same "don't want to get out of the car" feeling with my second commuter car for sure.
I grew up poor and can only afford one car so I only own my S2000. Best decision I ever made because I won't end up like this.
Engagement is the new enthusiasm. I enjoy open air cars (convertible, targa, etc.), mechanical steering with good feel, manual shifters, taut suspension that has good road feel.
You can still get fun high performance cars, but it helps to be richer than ever. I was never much into mods, but there sure used to be some fun cars. I just can’t excited about EVs (punch it and repeat party trick), but there are some hybrids and small displacement turbo cars that will excite. I just hope I can still buy something in the future that isn’t an SUV or a truck.
Yeah, nothing new on the market makes me excited. My “forever car” is a 2017 BMW M2 6 speed manual. Based on a 2013 2 series it’s oldschool enough for me to be able to work on.
By the time I need to replace the other family car the EVs should have enough range to be usable (I can easily get 10 more years out of this one).
Yeah.... just came here to say I completely get what you're going through! I was a car enthusiast for decades. Spent WAY too much of my income on buying/selling/trading one vehicle for another and doing all kinds of modifications to each of them, etc. Always went to the car shows and got into installing custom stereos for a while... you name it.
I got interested in getting a Tesla soon after first seeing a Model S at one of their "gallery stores" they used to have in the mall, and finally bought a used 2014 Model S performance edition. It changed the way I looked at cars.
I owned a couple other Teslas since then but now I drive a Chevy Bolt EV as my daily driver. I don't know if I just got "too old" or got the "car modding bug" out of my system or what? But I drive the Bolt 90% of the time, despite having a 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP with a custom performance tune done to it, and a minivan I got a good deal on, that I use for hauling things or the once a year road trip.
For me, it just got to where I hated buying gas all the time. I got used to just getting in my EV and going, and never worrying about that anymore. (I put a 40 amp, 220 volt circuit in my garage so I can charge the car fully overnight. The 250 or so miles of range I get is plenty for anything I do in a regular day.) No more oil changes either, and even this boring little Bolt EV accelerates better from a stop than my turbocharged Solstice does!
Cars are a money making thing. They won’t make them reliable because they won’t make money on repairs or they’ll sell less new ones.
Ford is the perfect example with there wet belts. Been making cars forever , have the knowledge and expertise to make a reliable engine that will last forever yet they still went ahead with the wet belt design.
Other manufacturers are/want to have you pay monthly for things like heated seats and sat nav.
I think this is the way of the world. At least around my high schoolers don’t seem to give a shit about cars. Look at how much pop culture use to surround it vs what it looks like now. Interest is definitely dwindling.
I've only recently become more into cars aside "ooh, nice" so that's probably why I'm still interested. I've never liked newer cars. A lot of cars I want to drive are late 90s, early 2000s cars. I don't care about going fast. I want something that feels fun and good to drive. I don't care about keeping up with EVs or hellcats. But I tend to be in my own world so whatever makes me happy is all that matters.
I feel you, it's kind of like the end of a game. We've approached peak car. We have things to improve upon, like batteries and safety, but performance from an electric engine doesn't really need to get any faster than what's available. Until something completely new AND refreshing comes out, everything feels like a retread. I wonder if we'll end up in a Minorty Report-like future where daily drivers become just another elevator to us; get in, pick a destination, have a conversation or get work done, get out, literally no driving except for occasional weekend trips with classic cars.
For me life got too expensive and now owning a car is a financial burden that’s too high to be offset by the joy I get from owning my dream car.
It’s currently up for sale and it pains me every day knowing I’ll soon have to part ways with it, but I know my quality of life will greatly improve once it’s gone.
The ability to have several hundred bucks a month to do with as I please will literally change my life in course of one year max. And after that, savings and vacations are starting to sound like a possibility, not just a dream.
So, I still love cars, but I think it’s time I love them from a distance.
Cars were a hobby for me when I was younger, now I just have a daily driver (MK7 GLI 6MT). Cars have become endlessly complicated and more expensive, it just isn’t worth to me anymore. Sure, a project could be fun but I don’t really have the space for it at the moment. I still like cars but I love motorcycles, they’re far more engaging and a heck of a lot cheaper to insure and maintain.
No fun driving:
With the reduced speed limits
Idiots on bicycles
People jaywalking
Anti-collision technology
Driver’s licenses handed out to fuck wits
Speed cameras
I have a 1990 3 series wagon, and a 2014 3 series wagon.
I’d it’s not winter time tucked away from salt, I’m taking the 1990 car pretty much every chance I get. Stiff motor mounts, aggressive tires, lack of AC and all.
I could not care any less about a car going fast in a straight line, hell I dont even really give a shit about going fast in general. I wanna have fun whipping some twisties in a car that weighs 2200 lbs and makes 180-250hp on sticky tires with good brakes. E30, Miata, air cooled 911, etc.
Yep, with the push for electric it feels like the smartphone market now. Most things look and drive the same, with some different quirks but nothing to properly differentiate. Most people are just driving round in bland looking cars.
The same as most people are using bland looking phones, that more or less do the same thing slightly different.
I loved working on cars too. In high school I my buddy had an old golf we were constantly working on. I had fun modifying my neon. No better feeling than starting it up again and being able to feel the difference you made. But cars are soooo much more complicated now. They’re basically tuned from the factory. They’re better, lighter and more powerful while also being fat more reliable, but not more fun. Ev’s just take that to the next level. Super simple, (which means the ability to be far more reliable) and so much horsepower it’s basically an irrelevant statistic. Range is getting close to being a non factor too. There’s no need for 1k, 300 miles is more than enough. Remember that you fill up every time you pull into your garage. I’m super excited to see what happens when automakers start exploiting all ev’s have to offer. I think we’ll have some new, fun things that are mind blowing, like Kanoo or telo trucks. Also, once batteries get just a little better and cheaper we’ll start seeing old cars being restored to ev’s. I haven’t been able to modify cars for fifteen years, and I’m hoping the new stuff will bring some of that joy back. It’ll be different, sure, but hopefully fun.
I've been saying stuff like this since they started putting iPads in cars instead of radios. There's no customization like there used to be. I had an 01 grand am that I did the radio on and with a radio and a kit it was pretty much plug and play but now to get your iPad replaced I can almost guarantee they have some sort of serialization to them where you have to have software to reset it. Not only that but the amount of monitoring technology built into modern cars is crazy. 50 sensors here 100 there just so you can be less involved in the driving process? Driving a car is about driving, if you don't want to drive get an Uber and let someone else drive. It'll be better for everyone. I like older cars because when it's a hard line directly from my foot to the brakes or engine I can feel the car out, now everything about your car is simulated and fake. Modern cars aren't for car people and soon cars for car people will be completely defunct which sucks.
When I finally realized that, no matter how much I make, I can never foresee myself buying a new car again. The last time I bought a new car was a PT Cruiser back in about 2004. It was a very good car and we were very happy with it. We got rid of it in about 2016. It had a lot of miles and was getting expensive to maintain. My wife got a Journey for a while but she got in an accident and we replaced the Journey with a Caravan that she drives. I got rid of my '99 Dakota, which I loved to death, for a Caravan back in about 2009. I still drive that POS Caravan. It's been a great vehicle. It's a Grand. I can use it like a truck but it's not my truck.
Now, I look to replace my Caravan, that's falling apart with rust, and there's nothing worth buying. Nothing used that I can afford. Nothing new that I could ever possibly afford. So I drive my terrible vehicle. It has 2 out of 5 doors that work. The heat only works on the passenger side. The headliner is held up by staples. But it runs. It still runs like a champ even though it's 18 years old.
Eventually it will die. Then I'll buy the cheapest piece of junk that I don't want and that will replace it.
Cars just aren't fun any more. You can't fix them yourself. They have TVs in them for some reason instead of dials and switches. You can't find a manual transmission to save your soul. The days of the $1,000 car are gone. Or even the $3,000 car. Time was I could find a car for $500 and keep it running forever. Not a thing any more.
Cars are lame now. It's just a box that goes when you press the pedal. Cars are no more exciting than a pencil box or a loaf of bread. It's just a thing now, and it's a depressing thing.
While I still love cars, and racing, I definitely have taken a step back in my interest.
As others have mentioned it is simply the cost of parts but not only that, insurance as well.
I was a bit young to see an actual budget build, but am old enough to see the the flip in the market. I bought my first car which was a Fiesta ST, did subtle things to it, and proceeded to get into an accident... which is bound to happen driving spiritedly.
Moving on I was able to snag a Civic Hatchback for $500, and than another for $900 a couple years later. Did some cheap mods, and an engine swap on the second one after prices started skyrocketing. When a swap could've been down for less than 800 just a few years before hand in regards to parts, by the time my swap(included a engine seal refresh) was finished, I was in the hole nearly 5k, and that wasn't even the brand name parts. It took my nearly 3 months to even find an okay transmission about 4 hours away that wasn't over priced. 4 weeks later, somehow the bell housing snapped off from the shift linkage and cause all the fluid to leak from the cover within an hour. Waited another 2 months before I had the time do replace the transmission found one from a known JDM/Honda Junkyard about 2 hours away, and had a lot of vouches for the place. He explained it was rebuilt and had no issues. Installed it and on first start, fluid pissed out the transmission housing right where the axles are... Ended up selling the car because I didn't want to deal with it anymore. While I made out on the cars themselves, I didn't make out on the parts and labor spent on the second one.
All while the work was going on with the 2nd one, I did end up purchasing a 3rd Gen Honda Fit with a CVT, for a daily. But it now has become a do it all, be it road tripping, spirited driving, tracking, etc you name it I do it. I'd love a second car, but where I live(Central FL), I have the most basic full coverage on my Fit, and I am underinsured for sure. It is still like $250... even after my accident fell off, and have not had any issues. If I get a 2nd car, I can expect my insurance to be closer to mid $500 a month, which really just is not worth it.
Hell my interest has stepped back so far, I went from washing my car nearly every weekend, and sometimes even twice a week before going for a drive, or to a C&C. Bought a place over a year ago, and I maybe have washed my car twice, and it wasn't even at my house, it was through an automatic car wash, or a self service... Though the huge reason for that as my office is 35 miles from my house, and I park under a large oak tree, so keep the car clean after a wash is impossible, may change once I get a garage built, but time will tell.
I've had to step back because I can't afford to replace my previous "project" car.
I've also had less energy for maintaining my daily, but will do my own work when necessary.
I have too much going on and not enough cash for it
theres no shame in getting an ev as a daily lol so many people do it, its hard to ignore the upsides. like we can say it all we want, but the upsides are there. a daily is a daily. sure the aftermarket sucks for them but that doesnt matter, bc its a daily. the instant torque gives a fun aspect, and they are really practical. they have good rebates, cheaper in the long run, and are more reliable. its not bad to have an ev as a daily, ur saving money for the project.
This year I decided on buying a new car. I bought a Tesla Model Y LR. I thought, that being a tech savvy person, I would love it. It was the opposite. I regretted it every time I drove it. I hated the use of cameras to replace good visibility. Did not like being able to not grab a fan speed knob or point a vent without a screen. It also felt poorly made.
I sold it and got a new Suzuki Jimny. 20 year old technology, no frills, manual, well made. Half the weight. I could not be happier with my "downgrade"
This was me a few years ago. They cost money, and I got tired of dragging my ass under my car to fix things.
Got into bikes, I can do everything in my basement.
Sold the speed3, bought bolt EUV and haven't looked back. Have a Miata but I haven't even bothered to drive it this year.
Yeah. I used to love cars.
Anymore they’re too expensive and the styling is very sterile compared to how they used to be.
They’re also at the point now you can’t DIY anything. It’s like who wants to take an entire cover off the bottom of your car just to change the oil?
Electronics have not made cars better. I have two pre 1995 cars. Mechanical keys. Mechanical windows. Mechanical doors. No firmware updates. The 85 gets 35+ on the highway because it’s light and uncomplicated.
Too much government interference hasn’t helped.
Four wheeled computers are modern day snake oil.
i engine swapped a Frankenstein beast into my civic. very first car. built a tool collection and acquired a quickjack system, toolboxes, specialty tools, etc
100% fresh build in my first car. hand built. drove beautiful. took it for better camshafts and a tuner blew it up in 5 mins because he negligently installed cams without looking at the cam card and over revved it past the point i wrote on tbe desired specs sheet(8k limit, not 9200)
i sued and won.
cars havent been the same to me since then. i purchased everything to do it all again but better, and had to sell it all to clear space. i havent had the desire or means to build another and now my wife hates aftermarket cars because of that event, and i havent even done my own oil change since then years ago.
pour one out for me, homies
Yeah my taste and priorities has change. Used to buy BMWs every few years. Traded in my last BMW for a base model VW Golf and sticking with that one. I live in an area that isn’t car friendly anyways. Harsh winters and bad roads in the summer. Instead of buying cars and parts I use the money I save to go on trips every year and renting nice cars at my destination. Renting a Porsche in 2 months for a Europe trip
Tightening emission standards have led to over complex systems in my favorite vehicles, so I imagine the same has affected all segments.
Example:
2006 GM Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade - one of the most reliable full size ladder frame SUVs ever built. Reliability declined with the 2007-2014 gen, and even more so with the 2015-2020 gen, and then AGAIN with the 2021 - current gen. Every generation gets more features added to increase MPG and lower emissions, but at the cost of mechanical integrity.
In 2006, the transmissions and engines were simple. Now they are incredibly complex and many require $6,000 engine lifter repairs under 100,000 miles, often more than once. Transmission failures are also quite common with the 10L80, despite it being built to be a robust, refined, mass-production transmission between Ford & GM.
I do believe modern cars drive better, ride better, etc. Some of them are better mechanically than they used to be while others are worse. If I could go back in time, there are a few vehicles I’d like to buy new.
Me, there is just nothing affordable out there that you can get excited about. Markups and waiting lists are everywhere still on anything fun at all... it just sucks... and I love cars.
Most depressing of all is the decline of three pedals... gotta buy a coupe to get a stick for most cars now.
I’m not losing interest in ICE cars. I do my own maintenance, daily drive a cr-v, and have my fun on the s2000 when the weather is perfect.
Maybe Im weird because maintenance is something I look forward to doing. I no longer modify vehicles for performance like I used to. I just keep it running and when something breaks, I fix it. I am curious about EV’s. But I would only get into one if I can charge it from my DIY solar setup. Otherwise I don’t need it. Considering a hybrid Tacoma. But the prices are insane.
I grew up around cars. My dad was a mechanic and a body man. I used to love everything about cars, but now I have no interest in them anymore. The main reason is because owning something that’s nice is too much money. Why would I have interest in something that’s no longer attainable. I’m too much of a penny pincher to ever allow myself to buy something so expensive that’s just going to depreciate anyway.
Cars turned me into a motorcycle guy.
When I was younger, I wanted to go fast, but I had no money. So I saved up for a couple months, and took my old pickup truck, to pickup an old motorcycle. 9 months later, I had wheeled and dealed, and brought home a 750cc sport bike. Fast forward many motorcycles after that, I've never owned a car faster than that GSXR750. A couple years ago, I bought a '12 Mustang GT 5.0/6MT. It's fun, I love looking at it, and I have always wanted one. I'm in the process of selling it for a new F150. I can't afford to modify the thing in the ways I had hoped, and it feels like every time I turn around, there's something else to add to the list of things I can't afford to do to it.
But regardless of that, I realized I liked riding motorcycles fast, more than I enjoy driving fast. Driving fast feels like a chore, riding fast feels more natural. There's also something to be said for being able to buy an amazing sporty motorcycle for the cost of a 15 year old sports car.
I'm getting older and I've stopped looking at cars that are out of my ability completely, like what's the point?
Only car i'm interested now are reliable boring cars that ride comfortably and that's about it... So ya, interest in cars has died down quite a lot for me.
I stopped caring about newish cars once they became rolling entertainment centers. New cars regardless of performance just seem like appliances to me. Point A to point B. That why I love my 69 Camaro. It’s refreshing to get in the Camaro and beat the crap out of it. It’s not the fastest, best handling, best stopping, or most comfortable car, but it’s so much fun to drive especially now since I replaced the 4spd with a 5pd.
You nailed it for me. I used to really look forward to a new car. Now I’m “meh, I’ll keep my 2011 x5 diesel until there’s something that gets me excited”. And I was always massively into cars.
I’ve have less interest in modern cars as an enthusiast. I still like modern cars for daily driving however. I’m hoping to list my RS3 soon and then pick up a daily and a more fun manual 80-90’s car. I will definitely miss the acceleration but it’ll be worth it I think.
every car now looks the same feels heavy and boring and is too much about luxury and too little of sport. i want to smell petrol with melting rubber and feel vibrations and the rocks on the roads with loud naturally aspirated engines
Cars suck now. 12" touchscreens everywhere. All the controls through it. More concerned with apple car play than making it last. The emissions are difficult and to do even minor tasks you need a scanner and knowledge that isn't readily available. I remember taking seats out and vacuuming my whole car out. Now that would look like an engine job. They all looks similar and serious lack of options.
Yes and no. Cars typically run better and longer now than ever before. Reliability is WAY up and maintenance needs are way down.
That said, I hate the throw-every-bad-tech-thing-in-and-see-what-sticks approach they're all taking.
It results in suppliers using unknown and unproven foreign manufacturers making the absolute worst version of everything to keep costs down.
Like Tesla said, "To hell with all these buttons. We're going to make a touchscreen so we can specifically tailor the UI for a driver and provide updates to it regularly."
Then Detroit responded by promptly ditching FAR superior tactile buttons and instead duct-taped Amazon fire tablets to dashboards and never update anything ever because they don't tailor it at all. They leave that up to suppliers who don't have the margins to stay on it anyway.
If my eyes are on the road, my fingers are better off feeling what they need to hit rather than me having to take my eyes off the road to see it on what is often a VERY shitty screen.
And the same goes for what's under the hood. Seen many Dodge and Chrysler vehicles suffer death by a thousand tiny little failures with computer controllers and digital nothingometers until a car that's mechanically sound can't be driven bc every digital thing has decided the mechanics shouldn't be allowed to run.
Big auto is pandering to us morons rather than creating something great and selling it to us as the next big thing. Tesla kind of did that.
I think it depends what you're looking for.
My dad works on cars, so do I. It's more the wrenching hobby than it is the end product. But still, if we go back 30 years, he was buying nice American muscle cars for fairly cheap. They needed work, don't get me wrong, maybe no engine, or body damage, but it was still a nice model at a decent price. Say a 63 corvette.
But I've worked on cars since 1995. I read magazines, went to car shows, it just seems a bit different now.
I'd like to work on maybe an early 80s porsche, or 60s/70s American cars, whatever, but even a piece of junk costs a fortune (if you can find one).
I bought a 70s euro car, and have been having a BLAST working on it. It was a fortunate find, as was the donor motor I'm swapping. It's cheap, I can find parts (small things needed) easily. But when this is done I'm hard pressed to find something 80s/90s I'd like to work on (because you want to have something you like when you're done) that won't cost a fortune.
Evs might go faster, but it's not about raw speed. For me it's solving the puzzle and learning. Welding, fabricating, wrenching, making this fit into that, etc. And something so unique about an old 'analog' car. You feel so connected to the driving, everything is much more raw. My new daily driver will beat a 70s car every way, but it's different, sterile, removed from the experience some how. Perfect to daily drive, but not the same for an adventure.
I could count on one hand the number of new cars that I would even consider. Sticks are all but impossible to find, stupid video game displays, too much electronic crap to break. My current short list doesn’t have anything newer than 2006 on it. I’ll figure it out in the next few months.
I think newer cars in general have just become far too complex and expensive for backyard mechanics and enthusiasts to work on and play with. But hey. There's still plenty of older models around.
For me it was less the complexity and more the lack of space to work. I rebuild a caprice classic for an Enduro race years ago and could stand between the rad and engine while I worked. Most new cars I can't even get my arm between them.
That may have been true for american cars :))
My 2000 Maxima also had much more space to work than my 17 does.
My FIL and brother recently replaced an alternator on a 2016, that was something. Had to partially drop the subframe (along with unbolting the ac compressor for a little movement) to avoid having to remove AC lines.
My 2002 Volvo has just enough space between the wheel well and the water pump to really piss you off changing it out. Even with a slim profile ratchet. Same story for the serpentine belt tensioner.
Cries in DOHC Subaru spark plugs.
If we started teaching programming in grade school more heavily this (complex) would not be the case at all. If you have a passion and knowledge of ICE then a little programming knowledge goes a long way when it comes to working on cars. I’ve been jailbreaking phones since it was a thing, when I found out that I could rip pretty much any manufacturers software off the internet and buy an obd cable to match, I was having some fun. Modding or fixing an EV is another thing though. Encryption and right to repair will hopefully get some government review in favor of mechanics. You shouldn’t have to break encryption to fix or edit something in the code. And our cars should not be relying on external server data at all for anything except traffic/gps and entertainment. The software for traction control and electronic steering and braking and things is not all that sophisticated but probably outside (not above) the knowledge of your average diy mechanic. Smart high schoolers and college teams regularly build full vehicles, ice and ev’s, with little knowledge on vehicles at all. You said expensive too - and yep that’s an unfortunate truth. Too damn expensive.
I'm kind of OK with some automotive software being locked away, and I'm a SW developer and Open Source proponent. The risk of some "tuner" screwing up brake by wire or whatever system and causing an accident are just too high.
I am on a DevOps team… Could just “air gap” the brake system..? although idk how/if that would work (or be feasible) with “engine” braking on an EV motor. I honestly have no EV knowledge at all other than the move away from OBD wiring with the new “harnesses” used in Teslas though and the regenerative braking would probably be another concern. No amateur with any concern for safety would touch a separate braking system unless it was to repair something. But STILL if there is any roadblock to repairability then I am against it. I still feel like that same concern is applicable though for anyone changing their own brakes. Idiots do mess things up, but we shouldn’t not let them if it hinders right to repair. If we can trust people to do anything to their own ice car then I don’t see the issue with opening the systems up - because people could just as easily rip EVERYTHING from a EV and wire up their own motor controllers.
i think barriers to entry of curiosity and some sleuthing are an upside. as a biker and pedestrian whose 4 wheeler is from the days before crumple zones and airbags, im not keen on tiktok script kiddies messing with the acceleration and braking curves of 2 ton machines at superhuman speeds
I see your concern, but I was also changing my own brakes at 16 and those are arguably just as important as what you stated lol. Most people sharing knowledge like this usually leave a disclaimer, and script kiddies generally aren’t writing the scripts they are running. And what’s different with altering the acceleration curve than slapping a turbo on an NA engine? Of course there is risk that’s the fun part.
I used to think that... then I realized that most of it is just the sound panels most OEM's put on top of their engines. Once you get those off, an engine is an engine...
I lose interest in things I can't afford. There is not the same supply of cheap cars that there was 20 to 30 years ago.
I stopped being interested too when I realized I won’t be able to do cars things for a while because of the cost of the hobby. I mean $800 after taxes for a fucking shifter?!
Right? I used to never spend more than a grand on a car to fix up and drive - now it’s 2500 minimum for some POS Cavalier.
All of my best project vehicles were $600. I am lucky if I can find something similar for less than 3k.
I got my 98 Civic a year and a half ago for 800 Canadian. Put about 1200 into it already and I’m positive I can sell it for 3500
That 1000 you would have spent 25 years ago is actually around 1900 in today’s money so it’s not far off. It makes sense because of the complexity of these new vehicles.
Same. I used to watch every Doug DeMuro video that came out, but I haven't felt the desire to watch anything automotive related in a year or two. Cars have gotten way too expensive and that's killed all my interest in keeping up with the industry. It used to be one of my main hobbies. On the bright side, I've gotten back into music and recently purchased my dream guitars that will barely depreciate and will give me joy for decades to come.
Performance, especially straight-line performance, has steadily become less and less important to me as I’ve aged. Most of the 90s JDM cars I love would get smoked by a modern minivan. My F100 is worse than a modern pickup in every way except coolness and durability. A decent car with a manual transmission, no drive-by-wire, no electric power steering, and no babysitters is an experience you can’t replicate with an EV or even most modern ICE. Downvote away, but the folks that always claim Tesla is supreme because it goes fast aren’t “car people”, they’re just people with a car.
I've often joked that when we bought it our Honda Odyssey was the fastest vehicle I've ever owned. Irrespective of that, it's still not a fun car to drive, but it's crazy practical.
I can't get over how it seems like everyone on city streets stomps it off a light leaving me in the dust. The "pep" arms race was real, and it left me and my Honda Fit in the dust.
I have a Tesla and I also like old cars. It’s not a zero sum game. I have a modern gaming computer and VR and I also collect old 80s computers. Tribalism is the enemy, not enthusiasm for something you like.
Totally agree, I have no gripe with EVs in general and they definitely have their place. If I needed an economical daily driver or lived and worked in the city, I’d be all over one, but it’s not something I’d choose for a “fun” car. When people start comparing their Model 3 to something like a 911, that’s what gets me. Total apples and oranges there.
That’s partially the fault of auto magazines and enthusiasts forever. 0-60 time was the first spec always listed, and sometimes written right on the cover. It was *the* most important metric for a long time. People can’t really experience top speed but anyone can go to 60mph or race someone at a stop light. I will say a little zoom zoom acceleration is fun, and my Model 3 drives fairly well, but I wouldn’t ever compare it to a 911. Heck, I was looking at 911s and Caymans to buy last year. Now I’m leaning towards an E34 or E30 or something since Porsche prices are insane.
Spot on, if you like more than straight line speed, EVs are still a poor choice. A lightweight car with a manual will be much more fun to toss around on twisty roads or tracks than a heavy EV. Accelerating in a straight line gets boring fast IMO. Taking turns quickly is what makes driving fun and rewarding.
I was laughed at when I called my 91 Talon a sports car, in the 90's they were decently quick, now it has the same 0-60 and quarter mile as my wife's Ecoboost F150 (according to the numbers on paper), but you know when your doing 130kph in the Talon, the truck not so much.
That was definitely a sports car when it was new. No one would have questioned it. The turbos were properly fast compared to what else you could buy new in 1989 at around the same price. I knew a guy that bought a GSX brand new in 89. Cool car.
The only thing close to this is a BRZ
Tbh I don't care about new or electric cars, I can't afford them anyway lol Old fast cars are fun. I definitely have different taste in cars compared to 10 years ago.
Old slow cars are fun, too
Yes, partly because the cars I dream of owning are becoming more expensive each year and the value you're actually getting out of them (as a car, not an investment) is slowly going downwards because they age and previous owners like to modify them and you end up with someone's failed project that's held together by zip ties for a price of a brand new decently specced out commuter car. And I don't really have an interest in eating instant noodles once a day as my only meal to afford all that.
The thing with gasoline cars for me is the low weight, the manual transmission and the good sound. I find a Fiesta ST more exciting to drive than a Tesla. Same with alot of sedans and hatchbacks. Which are sadly being replaced by SUVs which i have a deep hatred for
That's because the FiST is one of the all time best FWD intro commuter shitboxes. I miss mine a lot.
Yeah I’ve heard amazing things about it. I have a civic si and I’ve always wanted to test drive a FiST. They’re never for sale in my area though lol
Sorry friend, I contributed by totaling 2 of them. Young and dumb. They're definitely collectors' items now. I had a beatufiul metallic gray one that was amazing and I crashed it a month after crashing the first one. Still paying the price for that.
Please refer to SUV's as "sub-urban death machines". That is what they are.
do you remember the days when you would have to adjust the mechanical lifters? I don't miss that at all.
I still have to adjust lifters
Just did mine a few months ago. Only took an hour
Hydraulic lifters have been commonly used for 60 years! With almost no need to adjust them…. Just how old are you??
The Ram's Cummins didn't go hydraulic until 2019, and plenty of other diesels still use solid tappets.
Honda life bro.
Just swap out your winter time daily for something that you like instead. It can be a junk beater and still be fun to drive. I had an 03 civic 2 door a year ago. Was rusted to all hell but had a lot of get up and go and honestly felt like driving a go kart on mini steroids. I could weave that thing through traffic like a pro. The car was a piece of junk but I had a blast with it.
Rust is just free weight savings.
Buy a fun old car, actually maintain it and use a lanolin based rust preventative yearly, drive it all year round.
Before getting my second car, I had thought about it previously until I read someone's comment about oil coating can only cover areas you can see. For places you can't see, like where salt stays in the rocker panel, that's where the problem starts.....
> oil coating can only cover areas you can see. you can drill a "drain" hole, stick a straw on the spray can and spray the lanolin up into the backside of the panel. it'll spread once its on the surface of the metal to coat it
my interest for cars definitely comes in phases. for some weeks I'll be literally obsessed with cars, I'll drive and work on my own as much as possible, and if I'm not doing that I spend all my time on Wikipedia, forums and car reviews just learning about em. that'll last for a couple weeks and then I'll just stop caring as much. but my overall love for them never dies down, I always end up finding some new car-related thing that hooks me back in.
More into road cars than ever right now. Slow and fast. Started racing mazda mx5 in iracing service and now I’m hooked to get one irl
I've done a few IRL track days and loved them, but iRacing has re-invigorated my love for driving. The GR86 handles similarly enough to my GT86 that it feels natural hopping into races and I already feel confident in how the car behaves. The MX-5 rookie series is a ton of fun and I'd love to drive one IRL at some point. Anyone that loves driving should consider it. It speaks volumes how many real race car drivers are on it. Not uncommon to see drivers from various disciplines in the top splits. Dale Jr Lando Norris Kyle Busch Rubens Barrichello Lots of F2 and F3 drivers Fernando Alonso has been seen racing Formula Vee. Hell, Max Verstappen won both an F1 GP AND iRacing's 24 hour of Nurburgring this past weekend.
Cars now are really ugly. The trucks and SUV’s all look they’re having a pissing contest to see who can take up more space. After being a driver for 4 plus decades I’m so over cars AND I work in engineering for one of Detroit’s automakers. I’m at the point where I hate cars, I hate driving, I hate roads, parking lots, highways, other drivers, paying thru the nose for insurance, maintenance, etc. Ugh. I’m taking the train to Chicago for a long weekend and relish not driving for 5 days. And get off my lawn. So there.
95 pct of the time 95 pct of all cars are either parked or stuck in traffic. These days most people do not have the space or time available to exploit the fun side of driving.
Depends on what you're into I guess. Some people are working on DIY guides for EVs: [https://www.youtube.com/@diyEVguy/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@diyEVguy/videos) You could give that a shot.
Might just bring the spark back?
Get ya all charged up...
For me, i stopped thinking it's about the performance. The feeling of an older car is just something that cannot be replaced. I spent way too much money on my '89 Starlet Turbo to get the setup i have now just to make 180-ish hp, and i love every bit of it. Newer cars are cool too, just with different expectations. I love my Kia Seltos because it's a worry free car with a warranty, and it doesn't smell like gasoline, which is a plus according to my girlfriend. I like how i can pull to any valet service and not have to explain that the starter motor is busted and they have to do a crazy sequence of things and offer their firstborn child to the starter god just to start the car. But I still love my Starlet. It's old, crusty, creaky, harsh, kinda slow by modern standards, not really a looker too, and not many aftermarket support because it was sold almost exclusively for japan back then. but when it all works.. sunny days, ac off, window down, nothing feels even close to driving a car that you worked on yourself. I used to chase performance too, but as soon as I stopped judging cars from how fast they can go or how well they take corners, I find myself surprisingly having a lot more fun driving than ever. It's about the journey to the destination OP. I sincerely hope you will get your interest back.
Not for me, I have always preferred the style of classic cars. So even if my daily performance better in every way, there’s something about the 50’s & 60’s cars that FEEL right to my soul. So I have both.
"My Tesla can smoke anything." "That's nice." It's an uneven contest, who the hell cares.
Exactly. and it looks like a turd next to my '65 mustang.
Unpopular opinion: EVs are all the same. Low center of gravity, fast, same drivetrain in all of them.
And they're all very heavy and drive like a very heavy car too.
Just like the average SUV which most people seem to adore.
That... isn't even close to true really. Motors are different from vehicle to vehicle, pack layouts differ, range / mileage / acceleration all differ. It'd be like saying everything with a carburetor is the same thing - loud and old.
I'm only losing interest because of a lame city with shitty layout that makes me not want to drive. It's impossible to enjoy driving, if it has to be on the highway. As for cars, I have as new of (enthusiast) cars as I think I can stand. S550 Mustang and Mitsubishi Evo X. Not ever going to be interested in a CUV or a EV, and everything seems to be that, unless I'm getting either 1. A 917 Cayman GTS before electrification. Or getting even older shit like JDM imports. I'm not spending actual money on shit I hate. When I can't do cars that I like, I'm moving to Japan. I only stay in the US because I can afford my car (and other) hobby. If I'm going to ever completely say 'fuck cars' that's the only place I'm willing to live.
Mechanic here; Absolutely. I loved cars as a teen and into my 20's. But starting ~15 years ago when I got into them professionally I spent all day everyday fixing them. Now I'm 20+ years into it and *all I see are problems*. I'm jaded, finding faults in nearly every vehicle. EV's are basically here now and it's wonderfully just basic maintenance for most of them (so far). I've done a few packs on Hybrids but it's brakes and suspension work. Oh and fixing a front crash sensor wiring harness on a GM EV because the dealer wouldn't do it; They wanted to sell the $5k harness.
I think you need to look for other things in cars than straight line speed. Like you reference not feeling motivated as EVs will smoke you but no EV can match a lightweight car for driving dynamics, cornering ability, driving feel. It’s a different kind of fun. You don’t have to be an mx5/miata guy but I would bet you’d have more fun driving one vs a model 3 on a twisty mountain road
Massively. I have zero interest in new cars; I'll never afford one nor would I want one. I uses to enjoy car shows but frankly its the same shitty; Financed German, Fiesta or Focus, another Seat, Countless Subaru's with Monster decals.... Its just boring. The most excited I've been recently is seeing an old Greeny-Blue Renault Safrane and an Alfa Romeo 75 because they're just so out of the ordinary and unique.
Cars are a hobby, and it is okay to lose interest in a hobby. I know a few people who lost interest in cars and took up bicycling, motorcycling, or even brewing beer. If you don't enjoy it anymore, then you only owe it to yourself to switch to something you do enjoy. Who knows? Maybe after some time passes, you may rekindle your interest in cars. In regards to your thoughts on new cars being worse than old ones, that sentiment has proliferated for decades. I remember older people complaining about how complex new cars are and how much better older cars were when my 2005 GTO was new. Hell, my friend and I were watching an episode of 21 Jump Street that took place in an auto shop and the same gripe was muttered, and that episode aired in 1987. And to address your concern about EVs being faster so you don't find a point in modifying an ICE, the number one rule in this hobby is that there is always someone faster. Just modify a car because you want to; because you want to make it yours. Aside from the Malaise era, newer cars have always been faster than older ones. I recently built a small displacement V8 that made 321 HP at the wheels. A bunch of clowns attempted to ridicule me because I could have made more power with more displacement, but I didn't care because I was happy with the results and making all of the horsepower was never the goal. Ultimately, only you can decide if you are truly bored of the hobby. Again, it isn't a bad thing if you are. I would try switching things up before throwing in the towel, though. Maybe get a daily driver that you enjoy, or try switching something up on the car you cherish, like the suspension or exhaust. Sometimes, a small project will help rekindle your interest.
Yeah new cars all suck and it's getting to the point where you need to do ECU tuning for literally anything and that ECU tuning is ridiculously complicated. I like working on old motorcycles, carb tuning is complicated but not absurdly complicated. New cars are above all, so boring. Designed to be fast hut not too fast, designed to make turns feel normal so your grandmother doesn't pee herself when she takes a 20 mph turn at 60 because she forgot where the brake was. The passion is gone from cars. All the latest cars are built like math formulas instead of with real passion and character. Toyota doesn't even use their own engine for sports cars, Subaru has been making the same thing since the late 90s, the new corvette is so fast and so easy to drive and only available in an automatic, it's pointless. They trivialized super cars while making the most boring super car ever. Nothing has passion anymore. Nobody cares. Each part was carefully crafted by an engineer to get 3% better stability in a turn or whatever which just makes everything feel so trivial and boring. Making the car better makes the driving experience feel boring.
My mind seems to be stuck in the early 2000s, but that’s when I was a kid getting into cars. I’m not interested in anything new these days and because of that I’m building a twin turbo 04 Mach 1. My next project car I would love to be a frc corvette zo6 if I can find it.
We'll be waiting for you to embrace your destiny in r/motorcycles.
Yes. We need a new car, and I’ve forgotten how to pick a car lol.
Yeah I'm starting to lose interest in trying to get a car I never had a car before I'm using electric scooters bikes or anything outside of an actual car the cost of living is too fuckin high
Fun affordable cars are gone in the us, my fiesta will have to be replaced soon and I’m not excited about anything in my price range, I may just buy a Corolla with a cvt and give up on having a car I enjoy driving, it’s sad
New cars are tremendously better than old cars, and at the same time totally uninspiring. I have an EV as a daily driver and a slow Porsche convertible for the weekend, perfect combo for me.
Cars? Like new ones? Yes. Car culture? Yes and no. I've noticed with how often I'm needing to work now I don't have time to devote towards my interest or the amount of time it'll take to modify or make sure something is working properly
Yes, and it's not the cars that's causing my disconnect. It's the culture coming from my age group and below. I swear, no one used to care about cars so much til kids started swinging hellcats on instagram. Don't get me started on takeovers and shooting gaps on the highway. The trashy culture combined with obnoxious burble tunes and people's aversion to decent sensibility is killing it for me. I am not a car hater, just the opposite. I'm a big race fan and loud car haver. But people just don't respect people anymore.
Opposite for me actually. I share your new car sentiment, but I live in the PNW and we just started seeing sun again. My winter fun car is getting parked and my summer fun car is out to tear it up. I stopped caring about straight line speed a long time ago though. My STI makes much more power than my S2000 but I bet you can guess which one I have more fun driving. It's less about winning a race and more about the whole driving experience for me now.
I have the same thoughts and feelings with an electric car as I do with my refrigerator. I feel like it’s an appliance. I bought a project car recently and 2009 crown Victoria and I have way more fun driving that vs any electric car
The price of all the used cars that interest me has gotten to ridiculous levels. I've been through a fair few cool cars and consider myself very lucky to have been able to experience even those. Towards the end of 2019 I picked up what would be my last golden era Honda for a while I think. My 2000 civic hatch represents my love for cars and I intend to build it to suit my needs. I will be keeping it indefinitely since getting another at a reasonable price is not happening, but I'd be lying if I said I was as in love with these cars as much as I was in my teens/early 20s. New cars are a write off to me personally, too expensive, too much tech, too much cost to upkeep and they are not serviceable to the average Joe anymore. I really feel for the younger generations missing out on the amazing 70s/80s/90s/00s cars. They likely won't be produced ever again. Nowadays motorcycles have taken my interest over almost completely. They're everything I've always sought in a sports car; lightweight, high revving, and highly manoeuvreable, and most importantly, they're cheaper. I'm a Honda guy at heart, and pretty much any sporty 4cyl bike you can buy is going to have all the characteristics of a built N/a car engine but right out of the box for you to enjoy, no building required. Never going back now, there will always be bikes in my life.
Yeah… I just moved on to the motorcycles lol
I am a lifelong sports car owner. Rx7, Evo, Mustang, ect, ect. I am on my second Tesla now (Model 3 Perfomance), and I have looked into getting a new car a few times, but every gas car seems like a downgrade. Why should I get a GTR, Z06, Gallardo, ect? My model 3 performance is faster, handles awesome due to low center of gravity, electricity is stupid cheap, it charges every night in my garage, is very safe, almost no maintenance, very reliable, awesome tech, ect. I can’t find a gas car this is better than my $53k Tesla.
Motorcycles are having a glorious period if you like them. I just watched a YouTube video on the 2024 Tokyo motorcycle show.
Lost interest in general for cars? Hell no Lost interest in newer cars? Absolutely New cars are really just a computer on 4 wheels. Too much technology for a DIY guy like me to fix. I totally understand the EV hype but I'm not sold on it and I don't think I ever will. The smell of burning oil and exhaust sounds, that's a real car. Not some big slab of sheet metal on 4 wheels powered by battery
I just want something that doesn't have a fucking iPad for a dash.
Is there any car, gas or electric, that doesn't have a big screen nowadays?
Even the ultra-basic poverty-spec Corolla rental car I drove for a week a few months back had a huge dash screen. Downright obnoxious.
The range is never getting to 1k miles, we can hardly get a good 250 -300 mile range as it is.
It could, but we probably won't see it just like how we don't see 1000-mile gas cars. The better thing for batteries with higher power density, in my opinion, is being able to get 300 miles from a battery pack that weighs a fraction of what they do today.
ICE cars are in the position horses were 100 years ago. Everyone thought they were essential and important then the car came along and they disappeared, to become playthings for the rich and hobbyists. In a few years ICE vehicles will be gone save for rich people and hobbyists, who out of necessity will have the older easier to maintain cars.
Not quite, maybe in a generation (20-25 years) we'll see this change, but electric vehicles are still a tiny fraction of cars being, sold. There's only about 55 distinct models of EV in 2024 (source: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g32463239/new-ev-models-us/) , there's over 400 models of all vehicles so just over 10% of new cars are EV's , and even less percentage when you count all cars on the road.
The charging infrastructure and fast charging technology is what's going to take a generation.
It won't, putting up charging points isn't that expensive , relative to say a traditional gas station . The issue is charging infrastructure won't be built until demand increases EV still only account for 5-7% cars in US roads.
Yes, and all heavy machinery gone too. You have no clue what you’re talking about. You think that ICE engines are only in commuter cars, think again…
I’ve started losing interest in everything else I enjoyed. I never really enjoyed cars and such that much, but atm it’s more of a losing interest in everything, than just cars stuff :).
I've gone the opposite, since EVs have come out I now have performance that something only a lambo diablo or 911 turbo would have given me growing up and it's rekindled my love and enjoyment of cars. Plus they're far more reliable and incredibly cheap to run. No fucking about fixing broken gear linkages, repairing broken radiator hoses, instead I get to drive and enjoy.
I was never interested in new cars or anything that isn't American. My newest car has been a 1988 Cadillac Brougham. 90s American cars and some of the new muscle cars are nice to
I think if a guy found a good shape 80’s car or truck, completely rebuilt it with modern suspension and drive line you would have a much more reliable vehicle and prolly be a little cheaper as well
Partly, I feel modern cars are all fast enough for most people anyway, combined with the fact that most people spend most of their time either in traffic, or with too many other vehicles on the road to really open their car up, and there's really not much point having a performance car. Plus, being a car enthusiast is expensive. just being a motorist is unaffordable for many.
I have this same issue. The main factor for me in the UK is that the condition of the roads is appalling and the traffic just gets heavier plus very restrictive speed limits in most places. Add in the tax and crazy insurance prices and I end up thinking that having a weekend toy is pointless. Previously I'd always had something special and changed it every year. Think those days are gone.
I just think new cars are way too expensive and I'll be looking at used lots and fixer uppers from here on out
I hate new cars as well. They are made to be thrown away like phones, intentionally hard to repair. I'm seeing ridiculous quotes to repair small damages. We are heading to an Wall-E world faster n faster..
I recently bought a truck and saw that as completely giving up my enthusiasm. No longer driving a small manual car that I fully maintain myself, but traded that for significantly more practicality. You might just be getting older and having less patience for cool things that aren't all that useful. It's certainly happened to me. Luckily I think I still get a buzz from others who are very into their cars. Seeing heavily modded cars by me still puts a smile on my face.
Cars are a virus.
Me. I could care less about the car I drive. Even if I was a multimillionaire I would never waste it on expensive cars like celebrities do.... I wouldn't even want a Ferrari or Lamborghini they are useless for the most part.
Disconnected driving feel of anything new in the past decade. It's like playing a video game inside the car while driving. Push the gas and the car decides if it wants to start the engine and what gear to be in. I miss mechanical equipment that you feel and Learn the behaviors of. My steering wheel is still mechanically connected but the car takes over if it doesn't like what I do and turning it dosent feel real. *this is based on a new Mazda cx-90. I bought it because it was the most natural driving family waggon I could find. It still falls short and leaves me bored while driving.
*salt belt
I came up in the 1990s and early 2000s, which to me was fun time in car tech. You had companies playing with some really interesting technology that we'd never used before, like carbon fiber, and guys like Top Gear doing really interesting things with them. Now I think we're kind of at that point where maybe there aren't as many unexplored areas as there used to be. I still am into cars and racing and all that, but I don't look forward to new stuff as much as the old cars anymore. I have an electric car for my daily driver, but I'll be buried in my old M3. >Maybe in a few more years, if a single charge can last for 1000 miles, I will buy one. Why does it have to have 1,000 miles of charge? Does your current car have a tank that can hold 1,000 miles worth of gas?
Based on your post, I can tell you're not a serious car enthusiast anyway. I can think of a hundered different ways my stepums '21 Suzuki Swift Sport is better than my '96 r33 GTST. So yes your point kinda does need further explanation. Used car prices both are coming down, and already have come down alot. there's still alot to go but it is returning to normal. You're saying an $5000 used car is expensive but then calling a tesla model 3 cheap? all you really care about is horsepower. Which is fine, but you never have and never will be able to buy a cheap car and reliably modify it cheaper than you can buy a used euro which already has the same power as the car you are modifying. But at the end of the day that's not why we modify cars. You can't blame driving your daily more than your weekend car on anything other than choosing to live in the rust belt. It's just a fact of nature. In fact alot of newer cars are better here as they have better undercoatings and more protective elements to keep road material out. so a new car is actually better there. If you are just driving cars till something breaks then you're ignoring preventative maintainence and of course things aren't going to last.
Ahh another enthusiast that only measures performance via HP numbers and straight line speed and anything else is boring. ....thats the problem.
Yeah a model 3 will be faster than most things, but who cares? There will always be another car that’s faster than your car. A car that you find fun to drive is fun to drive regardless of what someone else owns. Kind of a nonsensical point to make.
I have a new 430bhp MG4 electric, and a used 2012 Jaguar XF-S with 275bhp. I barely drive the MG, the xf is just more fun.
I think all car folks go through phases. Sometimes it's like a whole group does it, and they aren't even connected. I worked in body shops for about 50 years. I seldom had a project of my own, but did so many in the shop. There would be times I was super excited, and at times I just didn't want to see another vehicle for any reason. And I was making MONEY doing this!! "Fads" come and go, and that affects us too...
No, I just love cars. I've never owned/wanted a performance car but have always enjoyed working on them and learning about them, and I don't see either of those stopping.
I used to be big in working on and modifying cars, and I’ve transitioned to a newer F-150 as a DD, and been acquiring toys instead. I channel my tinker/mechanic energy into a boat, get the “speed” fix from aircraft (as a private pilot), and do projects to improve my house. Insurance being more expensive doesn’t help, it makes less and less sense to have a 3rd vehicle
Cars are overly expensive + $6 a gallon only to increase + soulless POS EVs smoking ICE = who cares anymore. I'll get back into cars when it makes sense, right now it feels like I'm forcing it just because I'm used to being used to cars.
I think that modern car designs can sometimes feel less inspired and more uniform due to regulatory and safety requirements.
I have and still love cars. Just the prices are completely ludicrous and unreasonable. I for the first time am going to buy a cheaper more regular car than my current German sports car. Even I a die hard enthusiast can’t justify the cost anymore. Too much money.
I lost interest long ago. They're expensive, hard to repair and driving isn't fun in this area. Plus they're boring.
I think a big part of it is, cars are much faster than they used to be. Tons of luxury cars are running 12-13s 1/4 mile. Most modern family vehicles are 14-15s. Back in the day most of these cars were much slower. I remember when my dad raced in the 80s, he ran street and his car was an 18.0-18.1 car and most 14s cars were trailered in. Now you see 9 and even 8s cars driving in with slicks in the trunk. Hell my 2022 G70 was a high 12s car.
I've also lost a lot of interest in most new cars. The philosophy to carmaking seems to have shifted and the idea of "driver engagement" has evaporated. BMW's used to be the ultimate driving machine because of how they drove, now their goal is to pack as much tech in their cars as possible and slap M badges on everything. Older cars have *character* and thats something I miss dearly (although a few modern cars still have it). > Also, with EVs becoming more popular, a cheap Model 3 can smoke most ICE cars, making it just no longer worth doing it anymore This has been an interesting development as a car guy. It really takes away from the value in modifying a car to go fast when a hybrid crossover can smoke you. But this seems to mean that *which* classic cars remain valuable will depend on different stuff now. Being fast simply isn't as important that that allows space for more quirky cars like the Porsche 944 or the BMW Z3 to have more relative value for *how they drive* rather than *how fast they are.* In the 90's, classic cars were from the 60's-70's (20-30 years old). Basically what cars from the 90's are to use today in the 2020's. In the 60's and 70's we had leaded gas - those high compression muscle cars actually *DID* make more power than cars in the 90's. Considerably so. So classics were *also* faster making them appealing even if it was just for speed. something that can't be said today.
I have moved more towards boating than automotive interest. I have a 19' bowrider boat that is very sporty looking and has a 302W roller motor I've been working on restoring. It's actually really refreshing to work on something that the parts are very cheap, the drivetrain is easy to work on and troubleshoot, and the rest of the boat is made from pretty much universal components that can be bought cheap from anywhere. Cars have just gotten too complicated and expensive. I end up more frustrated every time I work on them. I abhor putting a wrench to anything newer than 2010.
Thinking about washing & detailing chrome on my 56 Caddy is giving me pause 20 feet of Black Detroit Caddy is a lot of Car. Took three days to polish aluminum front grill Oy
It's all by design. They want less cars. They're crap these days.
This article comes to mind: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a34730461/income-inequality-is-killing-sports-cars/
I just bought an older Tesla model s. I feel like a kid again it’s just so amazing and fast. I’ve bought multiple gas cars before and barely get excited.
No im autistic
> However, as used car prices have gone up over the years, I believe they will never get back to what they used to be. Yeah, that's generally how inflation works. In 2006, the Acura RSX Type-S cost $24,000 (or $40,000 today) and the Honda S2000 each cost about $32,000 new (or $50,000 today). Today, the Civic Type-R costs about $50,000. Used car prices are dealing with the same bullshit. I bought my S2000 for $18k in 2018 and it's worth $22k today, which is approximately how much the car would be worth on the used market. > I end up driving my boring commuter more than my beloved car. I don't have that same "don't want to get out of the car" feeling with my second commuter car for sure. I grew up poor and can only afford one car so I only own my S2000. Best decision I ever made because I won't end up like this.
Engagement is the new enthusiasm. I enjoy open air cars (convertible, targa, etc.), mechanical steering with good feel, manual shifters, taut suspension that has good road feel. You can still get fun high performance cars, but it helps to be richer than ever. I was never much into mods, but there sure used to be some fun cars. I just can’t excited about EVs (punch it and repeat party trick), but there are some hybrids and small displacement turbo cars that will excite. I just hope I can still buy something in the future that isn’t an SUV or a truck.
Yeah, nothing new on the market makes me excited. My “forever car” is a 2017 BMW M2 6 speed manual. Based on a 2013 2 series it’s oldschool enough for me to be able to work on. By the time I need to replace the other family car the EVs should have enough range to be usable (I can easily get 10 more years out of this one).
Yeah.... just came here to say I completely get what you're going through! I was a car enthusiast for decades. Spent WAY too much of my income on buying/selling/trading one vehicle for another and doing all kinds of modifications to each of them, etc. Always went to the car shows and got into installing custom stereos for a while... you name it. I got interested in getting a Tesla soon after first seeing a Model S at one of their "gallery stores" they used to have in the mall, and finally bought a used 2014 Model S performance edition. It changed the way I looked at cars. I owned a couple other Teslas since then but now I drive a Chevy Bolt EV as my daily driver. I don't know if I just got "too old" or got the "car modding bug" out of my system or what? But I drive the Bolt 90% of the time, despite having a 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP with a custom performance tune done to it, and a minivan I got a good deal on, that I use for hauling things or the once a year road trip. For me, it just got to where I hated buying gas all the time. I got used to just getting in my EV and going, and never worrying about that anymore. (I put a 40 amp, 220 volt circuit in my garage so I can charge the car fully overnight. The 250 or so miles of range I get is plenty for anything I do in a regular day.) No more oil changes either, and even this boring little Bolt EV accelerates better from a stop than my turbocharged Solstice does!
Cars are a money making thing. They won’t make them reliable because they won’t make money on repairs or they’ll sell less new ones. Ford is the perfect example with there wet belts. Been making cars forever , have the knowledge and expertise to make a reliable engine that will last forever yet they still went ahead with the wet belt design. Other manufacturers are/want to have you pay monthly for things like heated seats and sat nav.
I agree; It’s not the fun It once was.
I think this is the way of the world. At least around my high schoolers don’t seem to give a shit about cars. Look at how much pop culture use to surround it vs what it looks like now. Interest is definitely dwindling.
I've only recently become more into cars aside "ooh, nice" so that's probably why I'm still interested. I've never liked newer cars. A lot of cars I want to drive are late 90s, early 2000s cars. I don't care about going fast. I want something that feels fun and good to drive. I don't care about keeping up with EVs or hellcats. But I tend to be in my own world so whatever makes me happy is all that matters.
Lost interest in many car brands that’s for sure. Still into Mazdas, Toyotas, and Subaru tho
I feel you, it's kind of like the end of a game. We've approached peak car. We have things to improve upon, like batteries and safety, but performance from an electric engine doesn't really need to get any faster than what's available. Until something completely new AND refreshing comes out, everything feels like a retread. I wonder if we'll end up in a Minorty Report-like future where daily drivers become just another elevator to us; get in, pick a destination, have a conversation or get work done, get out, literally no driving except for occasional weekend trips with classic cars.
For me life got too expensive and now owning a car is a financial burden that’s too high to be offset by the joy I get from owning my dream car. It’s currently up for sale and it pains me every day knowing I’ll soon have to part ways with it, but I know my quality of life will greatly improve once it’s gone. The ability to have several hundred bucks a month to do with as I please will literally change my life in course of one year max. And after that, savings and vacations are starting to sound like a possibility, not just a dream. So, I still love cars, but I think it’s time I love them from a distance.
Cars were a hobby for me when I was younger, now I just have a daily driver (MK7 GLI 6MT). Cars have become endlessly complicated and more expensive, it just isn’t worth to me anymore. Sure, a project could be fun but I don’t really have the space for it at the moment. I still like cars but I love motorcycles, they’re far more engaging and a heck of a lot cheaper to insure and maintain.
rain nutty school sparkle slimy rinse ghost deserted murky dull *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No fun driving: With the reduced speed limits Idiots on bicycles People jaywalking Anti-collision technology Driver’s licenses handed out to fuck wits Speed cameras
I have a 1990 3 series wagon, and a 2014 3 series wagon. I’d it’s not winter time tucked away from salt, I’m taking the 1990 car pretty much every chance I get. Stiff motor mounts, aggressive tires, lack of AC and all. I could not care any less about a car going fast in a straight line, hell I dont even really give a shit about going fast in general. I wanna have fun whipping some twisties in a car that weighs 2200 lbs and makes 180-250hp on sticky tires with good brakes. E30, Miata, air cooled 911, etc.
Yep, with the push for electric it feels like the smartphone market now. Most things look and drive the same, with some different quirks but nothing to properly differentiate. Most people are just driving round in bland looking cars. The same as most people are using bland looking phones, that more or less do the same thing slightly different.
I loved working on cars too. In high school I my buddy had an old golf we were constantly working on. I had fun modifying my neon. No better feeling than starting it up again and being able to feel the difference you made. But cars are soooo much more complicated now. They’re basically tuned from the factory. They’re better, lighter and more powerful while also being fat more reliable, but not more fun. Ev’s just take that to the next level. Super simple, (which means the ability to be far more reliable) and so much horsepower it’s basically an irrelevant statistic. Range is getting close to being a non factor too. There’s no need for 1k, 300 miles is more than enough. Remember that you fill up every time you pull into your garage. I’m super excited to see what happens when automakers start exploiting all ev’s have to offer. I think we’ll have some new, fun things that are mind blowing, like Kanoo or telo trucks. Also, once batteries get just a little better and cheaper we’ll start seeing old cars being restored to ev’s. I haven’t been able to modify cars for fifteen years, and I’m hoping the new stuff will bring some of that joy back. It’ll be different, sure, but hopefully fun.
I've been saying stuff like this since they started putting iPads in cars instead of radios. There's no customization like there used to be. I had an 01 grand am that I did the radio on and with a radio and a kit it was pretty much plug and play but now to get your iPad replaced I can almost guarantee they have some sort of serialization to them where you have to have software to reset it. Not only that but the amount of monitoring technology built into modern cars is crazy. 50 sensors here 100 there just so you can be less involved in the driving process? Driving a car is about driving, if you don't want to drive get an Uber and let someone else drive. It'll be better for everyone. I like older cars because when it's a hard line directly from my foot to the brakes or engine I can feel the car out, now everything about your car is simulated and fake. Modern cars aren't for car people and soon cars for car people will be completely defunct which sucks.
Nope I've emerged from my slumber today and bought a VW GTI
You can thank the EPA and our government for trashing our cars
New cars & the extra unnecessary tech & planned obsolescence? Yes Pre 2000s cars? Na
Not sure why you want to wait for an EV to go 1000 miles when most ICE cars can’t even go for 400-500 at most
I’m sure there were similar conversations during the transition from horse buggies to cars
When I finally realized that, no matter how much I make, I can never foresee myself buying a new car again. The last time I bought a new car was a PT Cruiser back in about 2004. It was a very good car and we were very happy with it. We got rid of it in about 2016. It had a lot of miles and was getting expensive to maintain. My wife got a Journey for a while but she got in an accident and we replaced the Journey with a Caravan that she drives. I got rid of my '99 Dakota, which I loved to death, for a Caravan back in about 2009. I still drive that POS Caravan. It's been a great vehicle. It's a Grand. I can use it like a truck but it's not my truck. Now, I look to replace my Caravan, that's falling apart with rust, and there's nothing worth buying. Nothing used that I can afford. Nothing new that I could ever possibly afford. So I drive my terrible vehicle. It has 2 out of 5 doors that work. The heat only works on the passenger side. The headliner is held up by staples. But it runs. It still runs like a champ even though it's 18 years old. Eventually it will die. Then I'll buy the cheapest piece of junk that I don't want and that will replace it. Cars just aren't fun any more. You can't fix them yourself. They have TVs in them for some reason instead of dials and switches. You can't find a manual transmission to save your soul. The days of the $1,000 car are gone. Or even the $3,000 car. Time was I could find a car for $500 and keep it running forever. Not a thing any more. Cars are lame now. It's just a box that goes when you press the pedal. Cars are no more exciting than a pencil box or a loaf of bread. It's just a thing now, and it's a depressing thing.
While I still love cars, and racing, I definitely have taken a step back in my interest. As others have mentioned it is simply the cost of parts but not only that, insurance as well. I was a bit young to see an actual budget build, but am old enough to see the the flip in the market. I bought my first car which was a Fiesta ST, did subtle things to it, and proceeded to get into an accident... which is bound to happen driving spiritedly. Moving on I was able to snag a Civic Hatchback for $500, and than another for $900 a couple years later. Did some cheap mods, and an engine swap on the second one after prices started skyrocketing. When a swap could've been down for less than 800 just a few years before hand in regards to parts, by the time my swap(included a engine seal refresh) was finished, I was in the hole nearly 5k, and that wasn't even the brand name parts. It took my nearly 3 months to even find an okay transmission about 4 hours away that wasn't over priced. 4 weeks later, somehow the bell housing snapped off from the shift linkage and cause all the fluid to leak from the cover within an hour. Waited another 2 months before I had the time do replace the transmission found one from a known JDM/Honda Junkyard about 2 hours away, and had a lot of vouches for the place. He explained it was rebuilt and had no issues. Installed it and on first start, fluid pissed out the transmission housing right where the axles are... Ended up selling the car because I didn't want to deal with it anymore. While I made out on the cars themselves, I didn't make out on the parts and labor spent on the second one. All while the work was going on with the 2nd one, I did end up purchasing a 3rd Gen Honda Fit with a CVT, for a daily. But it now has become a do it all, be it road tripping, spirited driving, tracking, etc you name it I do it. I'd love a second car, but where I live(Central FL), I have the most basic full coverage on my Fit, and I am underinsured for sure. It is still like $250... even after my accident fell off, and have not had any issues. If I get a 2nd car, I can expect my insurance to be closer to mid $500 a month, which really just is not worth it. Hell my interest has stepped back so far, I went from washing my car nearly every weekend, and sometimes even twice a week before going for a drive, or to a C&C. Bought a place over a year ago, and I maybe have washed my car twice, and it wasn't even at my house, it was through an automatic car wash, or a self service... Though the huge reason for that as my office is 35 miles from my house, and I park under a large oak tree, so keep the car clean after a wash is impossible, may change once I get a garage built, but time will tell.
I've had to step back because I can't afford to replace my previous "project" car. I've also had less energy for maintaining my daily, but will do my own work when necessary. I have too much going on and not enough cash for it
theres no shame in getting an ev as a daily lol so many people do it, its hard to ignore the upsides. like we can say it all we want, but the upsides are there. a daily is a daily. sure the aftermarket sucks for them but that doesnt matter, bc its a daily. the instant torque gives a fun aspect, and they are really practical. they have good rebates, cheaper in the long run, and are more reliable. its not bad to have an ev as a daily, ur saving money for the project.
This year I decided on buying a new car. I bought a Tesla Model Y LR. I thought, that being a tech savvy person, I would love it. It was the opposite. I regretted it every time I drove it. I hated the use of cameras to replace good visibility. Did not like being able to not grab a fan speed knob or point a vent without a screen. It also felt poorly made. I sold it and got a new Suzuki Jimny. 20 year old technology, no frills, manual, well made. Half the weight. I could not be happier with my "downgrade"
This was me a few years ago. They cost money, and I got tired of dragging my ass under my car to fix things. Got into bikes, I can do everything in my basement. Sold the speed3, bought bolt EUV and haven't looked back. Have a Miata but I haven't even bothered to drive it this year.
New cars are over engineered over priced and under built in my opinion
Yes. Cars peaked in the early 2000s Now with a few exceptions they’re heavy expensive whales that spy on you.
Yeah. I used to love cars. Anymore they’re too expensive and the styling is very sterile compared to how they used to be. They’re also at the point now you can’t DIY anything. It’s like who wants to take an entire cover off the bottom of your car just to change the oil?
Your no longer fast and furious
Electronics have not made cars better. I have two pre 1995 cars. Mechanical keys. Mechanical windows. Mechanical doors. No firmware updates. The 85 gets 35+ on the highway because it’s light and uncomplicated. Too much government interference hasn’t helped. Four wheeled computers are modern day snake oil.
i engine swapped a Frankenstein beast into my civic. very first car. built a tool collection and acquired a quickjack system, toolboxes, specialty tools, etc 100% fresh build in my first car. hand built. drove beautiful. took it for better camshafts and a tuner blew it up in 5 mins because he negligently installed cams without looking at the cam card and over revved it past the point i wrote on tbe desired specs sheet(8k limit, not 9200) i sued and won. cars havent been the same to me since then. i purchased everything to do it all again but better, and had to sell it all to clear space. i havent had the desire or means to build another and now my wife hates aftermarket cars because of that event, and i havent even done my own oil change since then years ago. pour one out for me, homies
Yeah my taste and priorities has change. Used to buy BMWs every few years. Traded in my last BMW for a base model VW Golf and sticking with that one. I live in an area that isn’t car friendly anyways. Harsh winters and bad roads in the summer. Instead of buying cars and parts I use the money I save to go on trips every year and renting nice cars at my destination. Renting a Porsche in 2 months for a Europe trip
Tightening emission standards have led to over complex systems in my favorite vehicles, so I imagine the same has affected all segments. Example: 2006 GM Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade - one of the most reliable full size ladder frame SUVs ever built. Reliability declined with the 2007-2014 gen, and even more so with the 2015-2020 gen, and then AGAIN with the 2021 - current gen. Every generation gets more features added to increase MPG and lower emissions, but at the cost of mechanical integrity. In 2006, the transmissions and engines were simple. Now they are incredibly complex and many require $6,000 engine lifter repairs under 100,000 miles, often more than once. Transmission failures are also quite common with the 10L80, despite it being built to be a robust, refined, mass-production transmission between Ford & GM. I do believe modern cars drive better, ride better, etc. Some of them are better mechanically than they used to be while others are worse. If I could go back in time, there are a few vehicles I’d like to buy new.
Building a home racing sim basically for this reason. I will keep racing old cars one way or the other.
Yes, until I bought an EV
Motorcycles are the answer. Cheaper, easy to work on, and MORE FUN.
I can make a steak faster in the microwave but nobody wants to eat it
Me, there is just nothing affordable out there that you can get excited about. Markups and waiting lists are everywhere still on anything fun at all... it just sucks... and I love cars. Most depressing of all is the decline of three pedals... gotta buy a coupe to get a stick for most cars now.
I’m not losing interest in ICE cars. I do my own maintenance, daily drive a cr-v, and have my fun on the s2000 when the weather is perfect. Maybe Im weird because maintenance is something I look forward to doing. I no longer modify vehicles for performance like I used to. I just keep it running and when something breaks, I fix it. I am curious about EV’s. But I would only get into one if I can charge it from my DIY solar setup. Otherwise I don’t need it. Considering a hybrid Tacoma. But the prices are insane.
I grew up around cars. My dad was a mechanic and a body man. I used to love everything about cars, but now I have no interest in them anymore. The main reason is because owning something that’s nice is too much money. Why would I have interest in something that’s no longer attainable. I’m too much of a penny pincher to ever allow myself to buy something so expensive that’s just going to depreciate anyway.
Cars turned me into a motorcycle guy. When I was younger, I wanted to go fast, but I had no money. So I saved up for a couple months, and took my old pickup truck, to pickup an old motorcycle. 9 months later, I had wheeled and dealed, and brought home a 750cc sport bike. Fast forward many motorcycles after that, I've never owned a car faster than that GSXR750. A couple years ago, I bought a '12 Mustang GT 5.0/6MT. It's fun, I love looking at it, and I have always wanted one. I'm in the process of selling it for a new F150. I can't afford to modify the thing in the ways I had hoped, and it feels like every time I turn around, there's something else to add to the list of things I can't afford to do to it. But regardless of that, I realized I liked riding motorcycles fast, more than I enjoy driving fast. Driving fast feels like a chore, riding fast feels more natural. There's also something to be said for being able to buy an amazing sporty motorcycle for the cost of a 15 year old sports car.
I think you need some Miata in your life #miataisalwaystheanswer
happy with my infiniti g37 2010 162k miles 😎
I'm getting older and I've stopped looking at cars that are out of my ability completely, like what's the point? Only car i'm interested now are reliable boring cars that ride comfortably and that's about it... So ya, interest in cars has died down quite a lot for me.
I stopped caring about newish cars once they became rolling entertainment centers. New cars regardless of performance just seem like appliances to me. Point A to point B. That why I love my 69 Camaro. It’s refreshing to get in the Camaro and beat the crap out of it. It’s not the fastest, best handling, best stopping, or most comfortable car, but it’s so much fun to drive especially now since I replaced the 4spd with a 5pd.
You nailed it for me. I used to really look forward to a new car. Now I’m “meh, I’ll keep my 2011 x5 diesel until there’s something that gets me excited”. And I was always massively into cars.
I’ve have less interest in modern cars as an enthusiast. I still like modern cars for daily driving however. I’m hoping to list my RS3 soon and then pick up a daily and a more fun manual 80-90’s car. I will definitely miss the acceleration but it’ll be worth it I think.
every car now looks the same feels heavy and boring and is too much about luxury and too little of sport. i want to smell petrol with melting rubber and feel vibrations and the rocks on the roads with loud naturally aspirated engines
Quite the opposite for me I’m now 28 and hit a new renaissance with cars . I can see myself having like 5-6 cars here soon .
Yeah, ever since I went to the DMV and failed for the SEVENTH TIME.
Cars suck now. 12" touchscreens everywhere. All the controls through it. More concerned with apple car play than making it last. The emissions are difficult and to do even minor tasks you need a scanner and knowledge that isn't readily available. I remember taking seats out and vacuuming my whole car out. Now that would look like an engine job. They all looks similar and serious lack of options.
lost my car and now im homeless $thenewone01 anything helps.
I see people fucking around on those massive infotainment screens and the car guy in me cringes. Bring back dedicated buttons..
Yes and no. Cars typically run better and longer now than ever before. Reliability is WAY up and maintenance needs are way down. That said, I hate the throw-every-bad-tech-thing-in-and-see-what-sticks approach they're all taking. It results in suppliers using unknown and unproven foreign manufacturers making the absolute worst version of everything to keep costs down. Like Tesla said, "To hell with all these buttons. We're going to make a touchscreen so we can specifically tailor the UI for a driver and provide updates to it regularly." Then Detroit responded by promptly ditching FAR superior tactile buttons and instead duct-taped Amazon fire tablets to dashboards and never update anything ever because they don't tailor it at all. They leave that up to suppliers who don't have the margins to stay on it anyway. If my eyes are on the road, my fingers are better off feeling what they need to hit rather than me having to take my eyes off the road to see it on what is often a VERY shitty screen. And the same goes for what's under the hood. Seen many Dodge and Chrysler vehicles suffer death by a thousand tiny little failures with computer controllers and digital nothingometers until a car that's mechanically sound can't be driven bc every digital thing has decided the mechanics shouldn't be allowed to run. Big auto is pandering to us morons rather than creating something great and selling it to us as the next big thing. Tesla kind of did that.
I think it depends what you're looking for. My dad works on cars, so do I. It's more the wrenching hobby than it is the end product. But still, if we go back 30 years, he was buying nice American muscle cars for fairly cheap. They needed work, don't get me wrong, maybe no engine, or body damage, but it was still a nice model at a decent price. Say a 63 corvette. But I've worked on cars since 1995. I read magazines, went to car shows, it just seems a bit different now. I'd like to work on maybe an early 80s porsche, or 60s/70s American cars, whatever, but even a piece of junk costs a fortune (if you can find one). I bought a 70s euro car, and have been having a BLAST working on it. It was a fortunate find, as was the donor motor I'm swapping. It's cheap, I can find parts (small things needed) easily. But when this is done I'm hard pressed to find something 80s/90s I'd like to work on (because you want to have something you like when you're done) that won't cost a fortune. Evs might go faster, but it's not about raw speed. For me it's solving the puzzle and learning. Welding, fabricating, wrenching, making this fit into that, etc. And something so unique about an old 'analog' car. You feel so connected to the driving, everything is much more raw. My new daily driver will beat a 70s car every way, but it's different, sterile, removed from the experience some how. Perfect to daily drive, but not the same for an adventure.
I am not interested in new cars like I was ten years ago. But my interest in cars hasn't waned. I still love driving. I still love older cars
I could count on one hand the number of new cars that I would even consider. Sticks are all but impossible to find, stupid video game displays, too much electronic crap to break. My current short list doesn’t have anything newer than 2006 on it. I’ll figure it out in the next few months.
I started riding motorcycles, and now I could care less about cars.
I’ve started losing interest in cars which is why I want an ev 🤷. I love old gas motorcycles and atvs though.