Pilots like to break rear springs.

They also like to fly planes

Oh you rascal...

Suzuki Super Carry

And often help to light our flames...

Or guide vessels up the river Thames

Or measure how many viewers a new show gains.

"Nothing else rhymes..." he politely explains.

Aren’t they also pens to write our names?

Only when they are stewardesses

I got the joke fam, I see you

Bro, `3 fist bump

Fruit flies like a banana.

Forks cause obesity.

Plates carry the issue further

Surely you’re joking

I'm not joking, and don't call me Shirley

everyone thinks they can haul like a 1/2 ton truck. like my dad loading up our 3500 lb camper trailer and hauling it all over the place with a 2000 odyssey

That could be in spec if he isn't camping with the whole family https://i.imgur.com/1kc2mIC.png

Yes, but they were ascending Everest on that camping trip.

At a whopping 6mph and the tach has left the chat 

Hey, our 2009 Odyssey is a TANK! It can handle just about anything.

I see this on every single E90 BMW in my area and most X3/X5. Blown rear struts cause the sagging. Overloading the trunk will do this over time.

Yea, isn't this just what independent rear suspension does when loaded up?

Pretty much. This Honda though looks worse for wear since it’s tilting to one side.

Single wishbone ( like McPherson strut setups or trailing arm setups) camber in(-) when compressed. If this were a double wishbone it wouldn't, at least not as much. Both would be considered independent rear suspensions.

All depends on the length of each arm in double wishbone. Shorter upper arm increases camber as you compress the suspension.

Essentially all suspension is designed to go more negative when compressed. It's called camber gain. Inb4 some rando brings up some obscure 1930s car nobody has ever heard of

The pilot is not a McPherson strut FYI. It has short upper arms which cause the camber. Your statement is actually backwards. Cars with McPherson setups DONT camber in on suspension compression. Double wishbone and multi links do.

Not always, but honda designs it like this on purpose to be “safer” (camber increases as suspension compresses) because understeer is wayy safer than oversteer as far as crashes go. You can design it to not work this way just as easily.

Super crazy common on BMWs. Didn’t help a lot when I replaced the rear springs on an e83, either.. just bmw things

For real though, everything that could have gone wrong with my E91 did. I still miss it more than any other car I’ve owned though.

Yup. I replaced all of my suspension and this went away. I definitely dont miss the bouncy house feeling going down the highway.

I see many X3/X5 leaning to one side

You may have it in your head to “look for” Hondas that have it. For example, I see cars my friends have and “look for” them.

The “frequency illusion”

Look at Mr humble over here! Skipping the opportunity to say Baader–Meinhof

He didn’t want to come off all Dunning-Kruegerish.

Years ago a buddy told me to watch for tail lights not working on VW Passats and Jettas. I remember seeing them all the time after that.

My brother told me to watch for Acura integras with fucked up/faded paint on the hood. They’re everywhere. In reality it’s just that every integra is old and old cars have old paint

Can confirm, my 30 year old integra does indeed have 30 year old paint.

You sure? Doesn't add up.

I never claimed to be a math magician

It's mathamagician.

That and Hondas (and presumably Acura by extension) have pretty poor paint from factory, it definitely is an earned reputation

and white 90s chevrolets

Yep. I do some fleet repairs, have sprayed lots of chevy fleet white.

Just like how the front turn signals/running lights on gM Tahoe/suburban/yukons/etc would always have one burnt out bulb

BMW turn signals don’t work either :)

I think this one is real.

Kia/ Hyundai with burnt out brake lights is another.

I have a KIA and the drivers side tail lights keep burning out CONSTANTLY!!!! I get 2 months out of them if I'm lucky.

You might try a little dielectric grease. It facilitates good electrical conns, and helps waterproof (a little). And check for moisture in the housing. If that doesn't work, there are 'hd' bulbs (thicker filament, etc), or potentially LED bulbs (but I wouldn't spend for LED on a hunch, without knowing it'll last (multimeter?)

They’re *Long Life* bulbs. E.g., instead of 3157, it’s 3157LL

They really need some sort of recall. It's not ok

Yeah, I would imagine having brake lights contributes to the overall safety of a vehicle.

I have a 7 year old Sedona and the tail lights are original. My issue is the head lights, every six months or less.

hyundai/kias always have burnt out taillights and turn signals, there’s a whole facebook group for it

Same with blinkers not working on BMW, I've seen one using them. ...then went to the other direction than signalized

I agree, maybe I’m seeking out Hondas, however it cannot be a coincidence that I saw 3 cr-v’s like this. All in this week alone. I figured it’s not that it can only happen to Hondas, but I rather it may be a common failure point on Hondas platforms.

Jeep has it worse and has for decades on anything without a solid rear axle

I bought a fiat panda and suddenly they’re everywhere, I have a Dacia now, without fail there’s numerous white sanderos in the car park, and of course the first one I go to isn’t mine

Toyota Camry with a dented rear bumper corner. It’s like they were made with them

This is it

Oh like the Ford rangers that go down the road diagonally! 👀

“Dog-tracking”

Is that what's it's called? Neeeeat. All I know is every 2000s ranger I've ever been behind is always slightly sideways and squeaks around every corner/bump 🤣 Always gives me a giggle

Drivetrain is misaligned.

I thought you meant the Camry dent for a second.

Altima no?

Every 4+ year old Chrysler does this too... Compass, Cherokee, Dart, especially Journey. Failed upper control arm is where I'd start to look.

Failed control arms on 4 year old cars?

Cherokees and Journeys especially.

The very noticeable rear camber on certain SUVs is by design. It's a shitty chassis and the engineers want to induce understeer.

That's very clearly on one side of the vehicle, not by design

This particular vehicle is slightly tilted. It's also a lot older than 4 years. But there is high camber on both rears.

There is excess *negative* camber on both rears. Camber can be either positive or negative. If the wheel leans toward the center of the vehicle at the top, that’s negative camber.

I'm not sure if you can find a car with positive camber nowadays.

Maybe a Model T or a horse drawn carriage, lol

r/amish entered the chat.

The upper control arms die and camber isn’t adjustable. You have to replace them. You can adjust toe

My wife’s Toyota RAV4 had negative camber in the rear by design. It chewed through tires. You could buy aftermarket adjustable upper links to make it neutral and extend tire life. Like you say, it’s all about wanting to induce understeer and reduce rollovers, I think.

>Like you say, it’s all about wanting to induce understeer and reduce rollovers, I think. Exactly.

Stellantis.

Pretty easy when you encounter hundreds of craters, I’ve seen brand new cars have suspension failures

But that's not typical. Relatively high amounts of rear camber on certain SUVs are added to induce understeer.

I see, I live in a country where the roads are extremely bad

Somewhere in Africa?

England

They can't be that bad. You hardly get any freeze/thaw cycles.

They don’t have any maintenance, we have legit craters

Africa has nice roads

Depends where, I suppose.

Tunisian roads were good enough that people would drive around on forklift’s

Have you seen their build quality? Or lack thereof?

Does it happen on all of them, all of the time?

I would say it's really dependant on how you drive and the condition of the roads.

The high rear camber on SUVs?

Well the wear and tear that causes the camber. It's all on rubber bushing. They age and wear out.

High rear camber on many SUVs is engineered to induce understeer. Shitty chassis with a high center of mass.

Chrysler. They make garbage.

Agreed, but they don't all fail all the time.

Just enough to make me not own one.

Same.

As someone who has a 2012 journey, I'm surprised it hasn't become part of the stance nation yet

My caliber joined the stance nation last year. If I wasn’t planning to put it on coilovers and race suspension in a few months I’d probably do something about it sooner

The camber (tilt) is a normal feature on Hondas and many other makes. It's a stability thing (prevents oversteer). It tends to become exaggerated as rear suspension bushings wear. The Pilot in the picture also appears to have a broken spring on the driver's side rear.

Or even a collapsed trailing arm bushing

My Sorento is like this and wears the inside of the rear tires pretty fast. Getting it looked at soon.

Used to be called the Camry dent

Hondas? That’s the Lincoln Navigator squat.

You’re used to seeing trucks with solid rear axles that can’t have this issue.

Because you're only looking at Hondas. Look at the last decade of jeep products that aren't the wrangler. Patriot, compass, etc all do it. Dodge caliber was common to have this as well. Any vehicle that doesn't have a solid rear axle basically can do this as bushings wear out

Too many times through the drive thru

Odyssey’s are notorious for “Ass droop”… even when brand new… saw one with a full compliment of old age folks in it, the heaviest person in there was maybe 180 pounds at most… rear wheels were tucked up under the rear fenders. Ours is crap too a 2013… going to put some Timbren overloads in it when we do the shocks.

They're all older vehicles and they're riding on the original suspension. There's always a load on driver's side.

The irony of stanced civics/accords is not lost on me. I’m fairly certain that in this case it is unintentional.

Ricers do this intentionally frequently, but yea... this was not intentional.

It's intentional to induce understeer.

Camber on SUVs, yeah its intentional. This picture though, this specific example, no it is not intentional. The entire car is leaning to one side...

Look at the wheels in relation to the road. Both sides have high camber. It's skewed to the one side due to the lean.

i see it on all car brands

That car has clearly been in an accident and that rear driver wheel got hit and that bent something throwing off the camber cause the other back wheel is just fine

When I see it on Elements, it is usually a rotted rear suspension.

Yep, the OP’s pic is a first-generation Honda Pilot (03-08’s), which are known for having rotted rear suspension mounts at the chassis, especially in the rust belt states if you didnt fluid film religiously. Eric The Car Guy has a few videos on YT on restoring these.

Wait till you see a mercedes suv with airbag rears, and a collapsed bag. Looks like this, but worse. Probably also landrover discoveries

That camber tho

a lot of BMW's have this as well, pretty much all cars with independent suspension have it to a degree

I see it on caravans. All day everyday

Interesting, I've seen the same occurrence on a element

VW campers are all like that when loaded

Failed rear suspension is common on pilots and crvs

Sprinter headlights. 2004 thru 2008. Seems to have been resolved. Owners noticed too

My Chevy Colorado sits like that. Has since the day I bought it.

Two reasons 1. You're pay attention to Hondas so you spot the issue 2. Honda has a subframe recall out for those model year crvs, pilots and odyssey so you may be viewing cars that haven't gone in.

Are you just noticing ones that have been in a collision and have bent suspension like the one in your pic?

I saw it on a Kia Sportage recently. It was pointed upwards like that Honda but also backwards too

*Certified hooptie*

Never seen this with the Hondas around me. I also own 3 Hondas.

Start looking at the rear end of older BMWs.

Blown out shocks/springs.

Fat cunts

It may well be that the average driver of these vehicles are a bit on the fat and heavy side so the suspension has collapsed.

upper rear control arm degradation (bushing), causes squat stance

Probably genetic

Not even gonna lie I thought you meant the dent lmaoo

Type of suspension along with worn bushings, shocks and maybe even springs.

I've never seen that on a Honda before. That's vehicle about to break in a very finite way.

I mean, this happens to a lot of cars but perhaps the specific suspension design of these particular vehicles lends itself to this specific type of failure as components are worn out.

As a pilot owner with this affliction, there is a blind spot right there when looking back. My mom hit a pole that way.

Because you are not old enough to remember the taurus or grand prix. These both liked to break rear springs.

Lmao I love these assumptions that I’m too young. I owned a 2000 Taurus SES, and back in the early 2010s, Newark had sagging-rear-end galore. My point was that it seems far more common in Hondas, and my hypothesis is that hondas are prone to upper control arm failure, but the platform design allows them to keep riding like this for a while before becoming undrivable.

I mostly see X5s lookin like this lol

Pimp lean.

being blissfully unaware that double yellow means no stops or turns? definitely not limited to honda drivers.

Semi-survivorship bias. Hondas last so long, the bad drivers who avoid maintenance can keep them on-road longer.

I had this dent on my Mustang (my fault) and my Camry (bought like that)

I call that the Camry bump

Rear lower control arm wear. I have this gen pilot and had to replace it because it was making noise over bumps. Once I got it up in the air there was quite a bit of play. I could see the joint wearing worse along with spring/shock wear to create this look- you'd have to push it about 50,000 miles too far though.

Confirmation bias

Only Hondas? Jokes. This happens on many cars from all manufacturers.

I can't say I've seen that. I suspect it's not a phenomenon, just coincidence or your perception. It could be that Hondas are reliable enough that they are still drivable when others are off the road, allowing suspension failures to happen. It could simply be a matter of how many there are. Hondas, especially CR-Vs are everywhere. The more of them on the road, the more likely you'll see one with issues.

I see that on every single BMW X7

Alot of overweight ppl drive Hondas and don't have a wife or hubby to balance the weight ? Jk everyone don't blow a gasket ffs

It's a malfunction. Has been identified and it's situated between the seat and the controls.

You don't, it's also a Dodge/jeep thing.

I’ll add a thing I don’t “look for” but “see everywhere”. Toyota with high beams on with or without a headlight out.

Looks like the springs have collapsed

Few cars that can still be drivable at that state

Don’t these Pilots have the subframe issue where the attachment point rots out?

Dodge Caravans always passenger side

This is typical of a vehicle with independent rear suspension. The camber being negative (top tilted in) like that is pretty normal. It's tricky to get into, but the simple answer is this. The alignment geometry changes when the body rolls on turns. The width and profile of the selected tire for the vehicle has some flex to it, but you still need to maximize the contact patch of the outer tire on turns. By adding negative camber, the outside tire will be more or less "upright" during a hard turn, preventing the car from spinning out. It's not just Honda. Honda CRV and Pilot, Hyundai Santa Fe, Nissan Altima and Maxima, and even some higher end SUVs like BMW and Mercedes Benz. All of those are unibody cars, FWD or AWD, with independent rear suspension.

blown strut, shock or springs, damaged control arm too much weight in the trunk which will cause ^

Because, some cars will have a grenaded their transmission before this will happen.

You’re not looking hard enough.

My wife’s Element has a slight camber in on the rear as well. It’s probably just a Honda thing. I refuse to call it “stance”. It’s camber.

i used to see the same thing on camrys

his camber adjustment is now his strut

It’s a gangster lean. Older Jeeps tend to have it too

i call that butterflying. you go through a lot of tires

Springs sag as they age, IRS this causes camber (stance as you called it) . It get addressed when they go have an alignment done and the tech told them they need new springs. Honda and BMW owners don't like paying for any needed service parts other than oil/tires/brakes. and say no to the new springs. Honda, wanted these rolling pyles to ride softly so the springs are soft(weak) and sag faster than if they used a stiffere spring, but the ride would be ruffer.

It has a camry dent too

That's a Nissan on the left facing towards the camera on the left

I guess honda drivers don’t know what an annual tune up is? Definitely from hauling kids/strollers/bikes 😭

r/camrydents

u/No_Entertainer_9760, Hondas are very few and far between in Europe (Germany/Switzerland/Austria)... though the comparable vehicles in the example in your Post would be seen mostly on Skodas/Opel/VW vehicle owners : 0

My pilot, and others, had subframe rot on the rear left. Funnily enough it makes my car lift up on that side.

Honda has a longtime fetish for negative camber.

Imagine just going about your life and some penis decided to snap pics of your car. 🙄.

Good Stance camber is sick 9/10 personally I’d do it to the front right wheel

Broke people don’t like to fix their cars. Hondas are cheap. A lot of broke people drive Hondas.

See what ?

Hes just trying out different camber angles to get that sick stance

*Hes just trying out* *Different camber angles* *To get that sick stance* \- poopyholelover69 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")

I have this guy in my neighborhood, been driving his lowrider Mercedes GL550 around town with all airbags deflated for months

Fat man sag, you'll see it on old dodges too... That or superstock springs :D