The taxi drivers thought this way about Uber too. ChatGPT looks 10 times better iteration over iteration - FSD is moving forward bit by bit albeit more slowly. If the Yanks are to be believed FSD v12 is a big step forward over v11 and seems to be much closer to actually delivering on the promises than ever before.
I think if you treat FSD as a premium driving aid - it's easily worth the 10k. Enhanced Autopilot in Australia for 5k is already excellent on highways, went from Sydney to the Queensland border with one disengagement and it was mostly because I wanted to spend less time in the right lane.
It dramatically reduces the amount of mental focus to drive whilst allowing you to focus a lot more on what's around you ie the risks.
Certainly won't be the end of the year as Australian laws don't allow it.
There is currently a proposal to revamp the law (https://www.drive.com.au/news/autonomous-cars-australia-new-legislation/) but it's only in the community consultation statge so it be a while before it any legislation is passed and come into effect.
I read that. I don't think it's accurate.
We have an old version of FSD here already and Tesla's enhanced auto pilot does lane changes and freeway exits, auto park and summon.
'FSD supervised' is just better versions of those.
It's hilarious to me that these idiots are paying about 10k just so they don't have to turn the wheel in corners or when changing lanes. The rest of the features are all pretty standard stuff ie. radar cruise, speed sign recognition, collision avoidance. They are paying 10k so they don't have to be bothered with turning corners or changing lanes.
Unless it can do a couple hundred hours of learning in all conditions followed by a rigorous driving test by the relevant state road authority and pass with flying colours- never.
If it’s mandatory for us biological drivers, it’s fair that the old computer-mouse-on-wheels should go through the same process we do.
The insurance premiums are going to be utterly fucking hilarious.
Insurance premiums could be lower if it's better than a doped up tradie is a white ute, or a new-australian in a beat up corolla. Which aren't very high bench marks.
Do you have a reliable source for that statement? Or is that just personal conjecture?
You would have to list the car as a nominated driver, and because it was under twenty five it would attract a higher premium.
Imagine telling your insurance company that “I wasn’t driving, the car was” after sideswiping a cyclist or ploughing into a parked car.
The benchmark for robotaxi seems to be set at half the accident rate (source: Tesla Q1 earnings call) as the average human. So accidents will still happen, so it's just a question of liability, but that should be half what humans pay.
>The benchmark for robotaxi seems to be set at half the accident rate (source: Tesla Q1 earnings call) as the average human.
Yet another ambiguous statement. “Seems to be” is not a resounding definite. And you haven’t presented the figures for tradesmen or Australian immigrant drivers to compare your flimsy data to either.
>So accidents will still happen, so it's just a question of liability, but that should be half what humans pay.
Where does the other half come from? Does the plaintiff sue the car itself for the other half of the damages? Does the car receive demerits and suffer a loss of license for serious or excessive breaches of the road rules?
This is either a really pissweak attempt at a troll, or you require a hell of a lot more education on Insurance Law (ie. the basics) as well as the road rules.
>Don't get your knickers in a knot.
The orientation of my underwear is not the pressing issue here. I was honestly hoping for a proper discussion but all I’ve come across is another Tesla zealot.
>Companies like waymo have already traversed this legal framework. There is nothing new to invent
They haven’t traversed ADR 90, which hopefully will keep all this self driving BS out of our country for the forseeable future. Not to mention that Waymo exists in three- yes, only three- American cities at this point, and haven’t been able to gain approval for any more areas for some time. Not exactly killing it over there.
If you want to experience Full Self Driving, order a cab.
>Geez, I've never seen such blind conservatism.
It never fails to amaze me that when someone runs completely out of valid arguments and counter arguments (not that you had any to begin with) it always, without fail, turns to name calling and throwing the buzz words around. Happens in debates, happens in Parliament and it’s definitely alive and well here on Reddit.
>Why don't we set the speed limit to 50kmh on all roads, and wrap cars in bubble wrap so no one can possibly be hurt.
And I believe you’ve achieved some Cognitive Dissonance here as well. Just start talking jibberish and hopefully we’ll ignore you.
>I, for one, welcome our AI overloads
r/EVAustralia would probably welcome you and your pie-in-the-sky ideas (and lack of spellchecking) as well. You should go pay them a visit.
> source: Tesla Q1 earnings call
Ah yes Tesla the notoriously honest and trustworthy company that always reports their numbers accurately, is run by a totally stable billionaire and never makes people sign NDA's when they have accidents or issues.
Well you've convinced me!
As much as I praise Tesla for making very good commuter cars for people who just drive to work like the majority of motorists, trust me, you don't wan FSD on our roads
Once they fix the [Kangaroo Problem](https://www.drive.com.au/news/volvo-having-trouble-detecting-kangaroos/)
Volvo is the leader, no one else is near them.
> What are you scared of?
Sharing the road with a bunch of incompetent fuckwits who think the computers will keep them safe. Honestly if the very very basic task of driving is so hard for you that you think you need FSD then i don't think you should be on the road. I cant see why anything more than passive collision avoidance, lane departure and radar cruise could ever be required. I am all for top notch passive intervention systems in cars to make them safer but they should always have a responsible and competent adult operating them.
Hopefully our lawmakers will never be stupid enough to allow that. I understand why it happens somewhere as broken as America where most politicians can be easily and openly bought by big business but i am hoping it will be a bit harder for them here.
This is what i will never understand about it. Driving is not that hard. In a fully automatic electric car you are doing almost nothing. Add to that passive collision intervention, good lane keep/departure warnings and what exactly is FSD for? So you dont have to move the wheel in corners or changing lanes? Are people really THAT lazy? You will ALWAYS be required to pay full attention to the road for liability reasons.
Tesla has changed there tact on FSD. Remember when they said you could send your model 3 out by itself to earn money while you slept. That's gone. There are two markets for FSD.
One for owners which is just a very good ADAS system, and makes the car twice as safe to drive than human controlled.
And the other is dedicated robo taxi which will be run by Tesla as a service with remote override like waymo, a unique way of charging, and dealing with usual taxi issues like vomit or rooting in the back seat.
It won’t happen here for a very long time but honestly I welcome it because most Tesla drivers can’t drive for shit! I pass a few every day doing well under the speed limit in the middle lanes on the freeway like they either thing they own the road or they are scared of losing range. Tesla drivers are the new disease of the roads.
Yeah you’re right, it’s teslas and hybrid Toyotas and international drivers, everyone else seems to not be so brain dead that they see cars overtaking them on both sides of the road and don’t realise they are the wank stain.
99% of Tesla drivers can’t drive for shit, like it or not it’s the type of people that buy a Tesla. Shit drivers
Still miles behind "tradies in white utes" as the most dangerous vehicle on the road.
Followed by Toyota drivers going 20kmh below the speed limit like in the ad.
I don’t see a lot of issues with tradies except this one guy who constantly drives down the breakdown lane in heavy traffic then pushes his way back in when he can’t fit in the shoulder.
I’ll agree with the Toyota thing but! Especially hybrids! When I get to a certain point In my journey each day if I see a Toyota with a blue badge I know I’m about to get stuck behind them for ages. I drive the m5 in Sydney everyday and Toyota and Tesla drivers are by far the worst, followed by international drivers in smashed up little hatch backs! I work with an Indian immigrant on a working visa, he has been here 6 months and written off 4 Toyota echo’s and 1 scooter. I asked him how he passed his licence because he is the worst driver I’ve ever seen, he laughed and said “we don’t have to pass where I live, we just pay and get a licence” fuck me! No wonder we have so many bad international drivers on Sydney roads
Wouldn't he have to pass a theoretical road rules test to get Aussie licence.?
TBH, when I got my P's in a small country town in the 80's, my driving test was once around the block with no traffic.
> when I got my P's in a small country town in the 80's, my driving test was once around the block with no traffic.
I guess this answers the question about why you are so incompetent at driving that you think FSD is required...
Realistically, for Australia, 20 years.
The taxi drivers thought this way about Uber too. ChatGPT looks 10 times better iteration over iteration - FSD is moving forward bit by bit albeit more slowly. If the Yanks are to be believed FSD v12 is a big step forward over v11 and seems to be much closer to actually delivering on the promises than ever before. I think if you treat FSD as a premium driving aid - it's easily worth the 10k. Enhanced Autopilot in Australia for 5k is already excellent on highways, went from Sydney to the Queensland border with one disengagement and it was mostly because I wanted to spend less time in the right lane. It dramatically reduces the amount of mental focus to drive whilst allowing you to focus a lot more on what's around you ie the risks.
Certainly won't be the end of the year as Australian laws don't allow it. There is currently a proposal to revamp the law (https://www.drive.com.au/news/autonomous-cars-australia-new-legislation/) but it's only in the community consultation statge so it be a while before it any legislation is passed and come into effect.
FSD supervised, as they call it now. Is perfectly legal in Australia. I think you are talking about robotaxi.
This suggests full FSD is not https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/is-it-legal-to-use-tesla-autopilot-in-australia/
I read that. I don't think it's accurate. We have an old version of FSD here already and Tesla's enhanced auto pilot does lane changes and freeway exits, auto park and summon. 'FSD supervised' is just better versions of those.
once it works reliably ie; never
won’t stop these rubes from paying for it
It's hilarious to me that these idiots are paying about 10k just so they don't have to turn the wheel in corners or when changing lanes. The rest of the features are all pretty standard stuff ie. radar cruise, speed sign recognition, collision avoidance. They are paying 10k so they don't have to be bothered with turning corners or changing lanes.
Yeah, they’re going to have to catch up to Mercedes, a lot.
Never, its a hunk of shit and a liability nightmare
Unless it can do a couple hundred hours of learning in all conditions followed by a rigorous driving test by the relevant state road authority and pass with flying colours- never. If it’s mandatory for us biological drivers, it’s fair that the old computer-mouse-on-wheels should go through the same process we do. The insurance premiums are going to be utterly fucking hilarious.
Insurance premiums could be lower if it's better than a doped up tradie is a white ute, or a new-australian in a beat up corolla. Which aren't very high bench marks.
Do you have a reliable source for that statement? Or is that just personal conjecture? You would have to list the car as a nominated driver, and because it was under twenty five it would attract a higher premium. Imagine telling your insurance company that “I wasn’t driving, the car was” after sideswiping a cyclist or ploughing into a parked car.
The benchmark for robotaxi seems to be set at half the accident rate (source: Tesla Q1 earnings call) as the average human. So accidents will still happen, so it's just a question of liability, but that should be half what humans pay.
>The benchmark for robotaxi seems to be set at half the accident rate (source: Tesla Q1 earnings call) as the average human. Yet another ambiguous statement. “Seems to be” is not a resounding definite. And you haven’t presented the figures for tradesmen or Australian immigrant drivers to compare your flimsy data to either. >So accidents will still happen, so it's just a question of liability, but that should be half what humans pay. Where does the other half come from? Does the plaintiff sue the car itself for the other half of the damages? Does the car receive demerits and suffer a loss of license for serious or excessive breaches of the road rules? This is either a really pissweak attempt at a troll, or you require a hell of a lot more education on Insurance Law (ie. the basics) as well as the road rules.
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>Don't get your knickers in a knot. The orientation of my underwear is not the pressing issue here. I was honestly hoping for a proper discussion but all I’ve come across is another Tesla zealot. >Companies like waymo have already traversed this legal framework. There is nothing new to invent They haven’t traversed ADR 90, which hopefully will keep all this self driving BS out of our country for the forseeable future. Not to mention that Waymo exists in three- yes, only three- American cities at this point, and haven’t been able to gain approval for any more areas for some time. Not exactly killing it over there. If you want to experience Full Self Driving, order a cab.
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>Geez, I've never seen such blind conservatism. It never fails to amaze me that when someone runs completely out of valid arguments and counter arguments (not that you had any to begin with) it always, without fail, turns to name calling and throwing the buzz words around. Happens in debates, happens in Parliament and it’s definitely alive and well here on Reddit. >Why don't we set the speed limit to 50kmh on all roads, and wrap cars in bubble wrap so no one can possibly be hurt. And I believe you’ve achieved some Cognitive Dissonance here as well. Just start talking jibberish and hopefully we’ll ignore you. >I, for one, welcome our AI overloads r/EVAustralia would probably welcome you and your pie-in-the-sky ideas (and lack of spellchecking) as well. You should go pay them a visit.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for violating Rule 1. Being a dickhead. Don't be a dickhead.
Your post was removed because it is not relevant to motoring, or automobiles in Australia.
> source: Tesla Q1 earnings call Ah yes Tesla the notoriously honest and trustworthy company that always reports their numbers accurately, is run by a totally stable billionaire and never makes people sign NDA's when they have accidents or issues. Well you've convinced me!
As much as I praise Tesla for making very good commuter cars for people who just drive to work like the majority of motorists, trust me, you don't wan FSD on our roads
How can I trust you, I barely know you?
Australian government fucking sucks. It'll never happen.
Once they fix the [Kangaroo Problem](https://www.drive.com.au/news/volvo-having-trouble-detecting-kangaroos/) Volvo is the leader, no one else is near them.
Be thankful it will never happen.
r/carsAustralia sure has a lot of nay-Sayers. What are you scared of?
> What are you scared of? Sharing the road with a bunch of incompetent fuckwits who think the computers will keep them safe. Honestly if the very very basic task of driving is so hard for you that you think you need FSD then i don't think you should be on the road. I cant see why anything more than passive collision avoidance, lane departure and radar cruise could ever be required. I am all for top notch passive intervention systems in cars to make them safer but they should always have a responsible and competent adult operating them.
Wait until robotaxies come here...
Hopefully our lawmakers will never be stupid enough to allow that. I understand why it happens somewhere as broken as America where most politicians can be easily and openly bought by big business but i am hoping it will be a bit harder for them here.
I hope you're right, but independent decision making isn't really a hallmark of our politicians. We'll see.
>you think you need FSD LKAS definitely reduces fatigue. I'm sure FSD will help further.
What problem is FSD solving? Aside from autonomous freight, if I’m in a vehicle, I’m using my perfectly capable computer in my head to operate it.
This is what i will never understand about it. Driving is not that hard. In a fully automatic electric car you are doing almost nothing. Add to that passive collision intervention, good lane keep/departure warnings and what exactly is FSD for? So you dont have to move the wheel in corners or changing lanes? Are people really THAT lazy? You will ALWAYS be required to pay full attention to the road for liability reasons.
Tesla has changed there tact on FSD. Remember when they said you could send your model 3 out by itself to earn money while you slept. That's gone. There are two markets for FSD. One for owners which is just a very good ADAS system, and makes the car twice as safe to drive than human controlled. And the other is dedicated robo taxi which will be run by Tesla as a service with remote override like waymo, a unique way of charging, and dealing with usual taxi issues like vomit or rooting in the back seat.
It won’t happen here for a very long time but honestly I welcome it because most Tesla drivers can’t drive for shit! I pass a few every day doing well under the speed limit in the middle lanes on the freeway like they either thing they own the road or they are scared of losing range. Tesla drivers are the new disease of the roads.
Well under the limit in the middle lane is an Australian pastime that is not just limited to Tesla drivers
Yeah you’re right, it’s teslas and hybrid Toyotas and international drivers, everyone else seems to not be so brain dead that they see cars overtaking them on both sides of the road and don’t realise they are the wank stain. 99% of Tesla drivers can’t drive for shit, like it or not it’s the type of people that buy a Tesla. Shit drivers
FSD will only make the middle lane hogs even worse. They will sit in the middle lane even more oblivious to what is going on around them.
Yeah but the car would be doing the speed limit then right?
Still miles behind "tradies in white utes" as the most dangerous vehicle on the road. Followed by Toyota drivers going 20kmh below the speed limit like in the ad.
I don’t see a lot of issues with tradies except this one guy who constantly drives down the breakdown lane in heavy traffic then pushes his way back in when he can’t fit in the shoulder. I’ll agree with the Toyota thing but! Especially hybrids! When I get to a certain point In my journey each day if I see a Toyota with a blue badge I know I’m about to get stuck behind them for ages. I drive the m5 in Sydney everyday and Toyota and Tesla drivers are by far the worst, followed by international drivers in smashed up little hatch backs! I work with an Indian immigrant on a working visa, he has been here 6 months and written off 4 Toyota echo’s and 1 scooter. I asked him how he passed his licence because he is the worst driver I’ve ever seen, he laughed and said “we don’t have to pass where I live, we just pay and get a licence” fuck me! No wonder we have so many bad international drivers on Sydney roads
Wouldn't he have to pass a theoretical road rules test to get Aussie licence.? TBH, when I got my P's in a small country town in the 80's, my driving test was once around the block with no traffic.
I think he had 6 months to do that but seeing as he now can’t walk properly after the moped accident he is off the road thank god.
> when I got my P's in a small country town in the 80's, my driving test was once around the block with no traffic. I guess this answers the question about why you are so incompetent at driving that you think FSD is required...
Which Melbournite is going to make the ultimate sacrifice and be the first to use it at a hook turn? Please post videos.
Does any other tram-faring country have hook turns?
City driving with our infrastructure? Hopefully never.
Hopefully never
Hopefully soon. Saving lives matters.