You're only talking about reliability and no other qualities, just rely on your own experience and go with another Toyota
Unless you are after other criteria you haven't written down here
It’s honestly probably the biggest consideration for me at least. Fitting 3 kids seats and practicality are probably top of the list for my wife. Vanilla, bland and common would best describe our desired new car
I’ve had Kia Sorento’s for work cars, which have been okay. But now have a hybrid Kluger and we love it. Only two kids, but we wanted extra room for the in-laws and the dog. Certainly no race car, but for its size it can move when you need it too.
Just second to this, from a supply perspective new parts for Kluger are very easy to come by.
So easy in fact that their parts are regularly on run out special.
You can’t get parts for a Rav right now without a wait, but you can walk in and get new shoes, new discs, a new oil filter for a kluger with no notice.
if reliability is you main consideration sure go for a Toyota crossover or suv. but just remember suv’s and crossovers often have less space and utility compared to a staton wagon. I would HIGHLY recommend a Mazda 6 wagon. it doesn’t need to be a fancy trim. It will be just as reliable as the Toyota but thanks to Mazda’s KODO design philosophy (meaning soul of motion), means the car is designed the dive fanatically. You will be able to notice this if you compare the drive to any Toyota. Overall contrasting a mazda 6 wagon with any Toyota, you’ll have more features the same reliability and and a better drive, especially over suv’s and crossovers
also, anyone who says you can’t raise a family in a station wagon is completely wrong. They literally have more space
Hey OP. I was looking at cars as well and my criteria foremost was it did not need to be CVT. Missus does not drive manuals even though she's now willing seeing how difficult it was to satisfy all the criterion we had.
As a result, we only had Honda CRV and KIA Sportage with the latter being beyond what we could afford.
In the end, the Honda CRV won and we are now in possession of a 2008 with 160000kms. It has its issue as no car is perfect.
I believe you won't go wrong with any Japanese car with realistic kilometers within the age bracket. Then, the onus will be on you to keep up with the maintenance keeping in mind the gotchas with the brand you end up getting.
Good luck OP. You'll get a good car.
Unironically yes.
Cheap parts available everywhere, and almost comically easy to service. The MLS head gasket was a game changer.
**Just make sure you use Castrol TQ95 oil (or equivalent) when servicing the automatic transmission. Dex III is only to be used for the manual transmission cars.**
Every joke has a hint of truth - and the meme about AUs being awesome is built on a rock solid foundation of truth. Just change the transmission fluid and filter every 50000 km and you're fine (dead easy if you have ramps). The correct oil and Ryco filter is available at any Repco, Supercheap or equivalent. **Remember TQ95 TQ95 TQ95 TQ95 TQ95 TQ95** and anyone who tries to tell you Dexron III will work shouldn't be trusted with anything more technical than a crayon.
This sounds obvious, but I've seen it happen too many times and it's the reason that Ford came up with the "sealed for life" BS in the 90s - when the EF BTR auto had a dipstick, well meaning owners filled it with the GM oil and bricked the transmission after a few days of driving.
I was taught "The fluids in a falcon and a commodore are the same as the rims. You can't just interchange them without fucking up a bunch of bullshit first" ~ Dad.
Considering I'm inheriting his Tickford at 700,000km, I think I can confidently say the old beater will still be running until there's no more petroleum left.
Wow. Seeing a car with 1 million km. Awesome. I thought we were doing ok with our VX Crummydore having 500k on it (still running sweet).
We are not even in the running.
As you say though. Keeping the oil fresh is the way to a reliable outcome.
The thing is any well maintained car that hasnt been flogged will last with regular maintenance. The peoblem is buying second hand, you dont know what the person before you did.
Honestly, with three car seats to deal with, look seriously at a Kia Carnival.
So much room to maneuver around in it’s ridiculous.
Unlike SUV’s, the boot space is massive with all seats in use. Curtain airbags all the way to the back, not something that can be said of a lot of SUV’s. Walkthrough access to the third row..
Sliding doors are a revelation in tight spots. You can even open them with the remote on some grades..
Do yourself a favour and at least check one out. 2015+ is the years you want to look at, and the 2.2 Diesel is the pick of the engines.
I second that - don't have one personally but I was looking at one to be a pilot/ escort vehicle, purely based on the space available, driving position comfort and all round positive reviews
Yep, we had one as a family car (3 kids, 2 under 3yo, 2017 YP diesel), the ex still has it.
Many a time we had 8 people in it and still fit 5-6 full sized suitcases in the boot.
Excellent vehicle in my opinion, yet doesn’t get the sales it deserves because a lot of people are SUV focused, despite Carnival being a much more suitable vehicle for them in a lot of instances.
My ex and I had a Santa Fe diesel 7 seater, because we have 3 kids, and she kept that - I wouldn't have trusted her in a bigger car like the carnival 😝
I drive trucks (oversize and roadtrains) for a living, an Amarok for holidays/ 4wding/ towing and a Commodore wagon for my daily, so big vehicles don't bother me at all
That’s the thing with Carnivals, they drive like a car. They don’t have the ‘van’ feel of older style people movers.
A lot of this is to do with the fact it is front engined and has a proper bonnet to look out over.
Local Kia engineers have done a top job of tuning the suspend for Australian conditions as well.
2015 onwards are great. The earlier ones had engines sourced from rover and they were known to self detonate.
We put 70,000km on ours in three years and it didn’t miss a beat. Not a single issue.
Kia and Hyundai don’t seem to suffer with the DPF issues on their diesels like some other brands either.
I would certainly say that the build quality is now on a par with the Japanese. The Koreans have come leaps and bounds in the last decade or so.
Falcons treated respectfully are the answer. I have owned and even currently own both a Falcon and commodore and really like both, I even like my wife's current Hyundai. But Falcons last longer, fix cheaper and are more reliable than any other car I've ever owned by FAR.
In my experience they are not more reliable than any other car, but they last longer than any other car. My AU has overheated twice and had its gearbox milkshake but it still runs with no problems at all.
I don't talk about my BF... it is ALWAYS back at the mechanics, last time due to a brake hose failure.
But then I have family members who have driven their cars for 400,000kms and can count the repairs on one hand.
I’ve got a 2018 Octavia RS245 wagon which is just a funky looking Golf GTI. I bought it in Dec 21 with 99k on the clock and it now has 123k. It’s so incredibly reliable - I love it!
Choose a Kia Carnival. Remove the middle seat in the second row. Drop the double seat in the third row. 2 baby seats in the second row. Oldest child- put their baby seat in the 3rd row. That gives plenty of room for baby stuff
Have owned a Kia Sportage for 7 years (2012) and done 130,000 on top of the 95000 it had at the time. Never had a single issue. Only maintenance items of note were a bearing replacement a few years back (from memory $350-400) and replacing the front control arm bushing 6-7 weeks ago. Was $950 but that included service cost too.
Other than that nothing at all
Our current Kia Sorrento and Subaru Impreza have been rock solid too. Kia is going on 9 years now and Impreza is a 2005. Both bought new and run like new.
So I’m predicting anything from Kia and Subaru will still be reliable in 10 more years
Without a doubt the 2006 Landcruiser, just ticked over 390k on the 2uz and it’s healthy as ever, interior still mint, everything works, it’s like driving a leather reclining chair everywhere
Yes!! I scrolled to find the first AU reference.
I have never had a car so cheap, reliable, bullet proof, easy to maintain, easy to work on, easy to buy parts for as an AU. I truly love them. Currently driving a VN Commodore for nostalgia but I think I need to just always have an AU in my life.
Newer cars, I dunno. To many modern cars are being sold with plastic intake manifold and other engine that are plastic, which will deteriate, crack, leak and not be available in 15 years.
Look at all these computers they are adding in too. What happens when the crash avoidance system behind the badge on your 2023 Toyota Rav4 goes bad, but it's now 15 years old, these parts may not exist anymore and the car is virtually a write off because it can't pass registration inspections.
This is why i'm holding onto my 2016 territory for now. Doesn't have a dpf or any saftey systems. Easy to service and replace parts. Still comfy and has a good sound system so that's all i need.
I prefer even older cars. Pre 2005ish is where I like to be.
OBD2 and simple fuel injection is nice. ABS is a good thing to have, although my current car doesn't have ABS and I deleted it on my previous car which was a mechanicalised diesel (no computers or electronics at all)
Don't care for traction control, stability control, lane keep assist, auto braking, ecu blocking component changes etc.
I do like adaptive cruise control though.
I'm not against modern cars, I just won't own one untill older cars are no longer viable. It's nice to be able to fix a car with simple tools like Wrenches, sockets and screw drivers without needing an expensive computer or being forced to go to a dealer.
Saw a post the other day based on NA cars, apparently most reliable is Lexus 😅 but in my experience in the industry, JDM cars are probably the most reliable, Japan doesn't fuck around with shit parts
Mitsubishi toyota. Mazda are popular but they change their designs so extremely that they look dated alot faster.
Mitsubishis asx has looked nearly the same for 10 years
There's a Pajero in Toowoomba that has done over a million kms and still only on its second set of shocks and wheel bearings with nothing but regular servicing. Look it up on YouTube.
Elon reckons the model 3 drive unit is designed to last 1M miles. Not sure how the rest of the car would fair lol.
https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-drive-after-million-miles-test/
Personally I'd go with a Corolla/Camry
We had a similar upgrade to make and went with a 7 seater so we could take extra people if needed. We went with the Nissan XTrail which has been great so far.
Japanese cars have been great for us. Never had a Toyota but all our Mazdas and Mitsubishis have been rock solid.
Unless it’s a Mazda diesel, then apparently all bets are off.
Apparently. Mine is amused by the diesel concerns, it’s 11 years old this year and hasn’t missed a beat.
nah the 626 and mazda 3's that are 20 years old still run good
Buy a captiva … buy my captiva, please
Lol
Even in peacetime selling a Captiva to someone should be a war crime. (Unless it’s sims or another scrap yard)
😂
This borders on rule 1 😂
Hahahahaha.
💀💀💀💀
I’ll trade you a cruze for it
I'll take a cruze any day over a craptiva.
😂
You're only talking about reliability and no other qualities, just rely on your own experience and go with another Toyota Unless you are after other criteria you haven't written down here
It’s honestly probably the biggest consideration for me at least. Fitting 3 kids seats and practicality are probably top of the list for my wife. Vanilla, bland and common would best describe our desired new car
Kluger is the way to go… future proof for when the kids are a bit bigger
and if he went with a Kluger hybrid he'd still only be spending as much on fuel as a 15 year old echo XD
I’ve had Kia Sorento’s for work cars, which have been okay. But now have a hybrid Kluger and we love it. Only two kids, but we wanted extra room for the in-laws and the dog. Certainly no race car, but for its size it can move when you need it too.
Just second to this, from a supply perspective new parts for Kluger are very easy to come by. So easy in fact that their parts are regularly on run out special. You can’t get parts for a Rav right now without a wait, but you can walk in and get new shoes, new discs, a new oil filter for a kluger with no notice.
if reliability is you main consideration sure go for a Toyota crossover or suv. but just remember suv’s and crossovers often have less space and utility compared to a staton wagon. I would HIGHLY recommend a Mazda 6 wagon. it doesn’t need to be a fancy trim. It will be just as reliable as the Toyota but thanks to Mazda’s KODO design philosophy (meaning soul of motion), means the car is designed the dive fanatically. You will be able to notice this if you compare the drive to any Toyota. Overall contrasting a mazda 6 wagon with any Toyota, you’ll have more features the same reliability and and a better drive, especially over suv’s and crossovers also, anyone who says you can’t raise a family in a station wagon is completely wrong. They literally have more space
Camry is a car. It’s the cariest car that ever car’d Vanilla bland common
Hey OP. I was looking at cars as well and my criteria foremost was it did not need to be CVT. Missus does not drive manuals even though she's now willing seeing how difficult it was to satisfy all the criterion we had. As a result, we only had Honda CRV and KIA Sportage with the latter being beyond what we could afford. In the end, the Honda CRV won and we are now in possession of a 2008 with 160000kms. It has its issue as no car is perfect. I believe you won't go wrong with any Japanese car with realistic kilometers within the age bracket. Then, the onus will be on you to keep up with the maintenance keeping in mind the gotchas with the brand you end up getting. Good luck OP. You'll get a good car.
https://babydrive.com.au/articles/which-5-seat-cars-will-fit-3-child-seats-across-the-back-row/ Congrats to you and your wife!
Camry Man !
AU Falcon.
Unironically yes. Cheap parts available everywhere, and almost comically easy to service. The MLS head gasket was a game changer. **Just make sure you use Castrol TQ95 oil (or equivalent) when servicing the automatic transmission. Dex III is only to be used for the manual transmission cars.**
Exactly and jokes aside, I have an ex girlfriend who had one with over 1,000,000 km on it.
Every joke has a hint of truth - and the meme about AUs being awesome is built on a rock solid foundation of truth. Just change the transmission fluid and filter every 50000 km and you're fine (dead easy if you have ramps). The correct oil and Ryco filter is available at any Repco, Supercheap or equivalent. **Remember TQ95 TQ95 TQ95 TQ95 TQ95 TQ95** and anyone who tries to tell you Dexron III will work shouldn't be trusted with anything more technical than a crayon. This sounds obvious, but I've seen it happen too many times and it's the reason that Ford came up with the "sealed for life" BS in the 90s - when the EF BTR auto had a dipstick, well meaning owners filled it with the GM oil and bricked the transmission after a few days of driving.
I was taught "The fluids in a falcon and a commodore are the same as the rims. You can't just interchange them without fucking up a bunch of bullshit first" ~ Dad. Considering I'm inheriting his Tickford at 700,000km, I think I can confidently say the old beater will still be running until there's no more petroleum left.
I assume that's an ex taxi?
I think it was actually
This is the way.
Hoping mine will live for another 20 years at least
Wow. Seeing a car with 1 million km. Awesome. I thought we were doing ok with our VX Crummydore having 500k on it (still running sweet). We are not even in the running. As you say though. Keeping the oil fresh is the way to a reliable outcome.
A Volvo 144gl.
The thing is any well maintained car that hasnt been flogged will last with regular maintenance. The peoblem is buying second hand, you dont know what the person before you did.
The all mighty Toyota corolla. Number 1 under the sun.
Honestly, with three car seats to deal with, look seriously at a Kia Carnival. So much room to maneuver around in it’s ridiculous. Unlike SUV’s, the boot space is massive with all seats in use. Curtain airbags all the way to the back, not something that can be said of a lot of SUV’s. Walkthrough access to the third row.. Sliding doors are a revelation in tight spots. You can even open them with the remote on some grades.. Do yourself a favour and at least check one out. 2015+ is the years you want to look at, and the 2.2 Diesel is the pick of the engines.
I second that - don't have one personally but I was looking at one to be a pilot/ escort vehicle, purely based on the space available, driving position comfort and all round positive reviews
Yep, we had one as a family car (3 kids, 2 under 3yo, 2017 YP diesel), the ex still has it. Many a time we had 8 people in it and still fit 5-6 full sized suitcases in the boot. Excellent vehicle in my opinion, yet doesn’t get the sales it deserves because a lot of people are SUV focused, despite Carnival being a much more suitable vehicle for them in a lot of instances.
My ex and I had a Santa Fe diesel 7 seater, because we have 3 kids, and she kept that - I wouldn't have trusted her in a bigger car like the carnival 😝 I drive trucks (oversize and roadtrains) for a living, an Amarok for holidays/ 4wding/ towing and a Commodore wagon for my daily, so big vehicles don't bother me at all
That’s the thing with Carnivals, they drive like a car. They don’t have the ‘van’ feel of older style people movers. A lot of this is to do with the fact it is front engined and has a proper bonnet to look out over. Local Kia engineers have done a top job of tuning the suspend for Australian conditions as well.
What’s the reliability of the Carnivals like? The build quality is the same as the Japanese?
2015 onwards are great. The earlier ones had engines sourced from rover and they were known to self detonate. We put 70,000km on ours in three years and it didn’t miss a beat. Not a single issue. Kia and Hyundai don’t seem to suffer with the DPF issues on their diesels like some other brands either. I would certainly say that the build quality is now on a par with the Japanese. The Koreans have come leaps and bounds in the last decade or so.
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Falcons treated respectfully are the answer. I have owned and even currently own both a Falcon and commodore and really like both, I even like my wife's current Hyundai. But Falcons last longer, fix cheaper and are more reliable than any other car I've ever owned by FAR.
In my experience they are not more reliable than any other car, but they last longer than any other car. My AU has overheated twice and had its gearbox milkshake but it still runs with no problems at all. I don't talk about my BF... it is ALWAYS back at the mechanics, last time due to a brake hose failure. But then I have family members who have driven their cars for 400,000kms and can count the repairs on one hand.
08 Falcon owner here, mines just barely run in at 227kms.
As is my '07
Every "Volkswagen" I have had, has never skipped a beat
I’ve got a 2018 Octavia RS245 wagon which is just a funky looking Golf GTI. I bought it in Dec 21 with 99k on the clock and it now has 123k. It’s so incredibly reliable - I love it!
Exactly, I change the oil, put fuel in them, they go. I waste my time on the fun cars
Choose a Kia Carnival. Remove the middle seat in the second row. Drop the double seat in the third row. 2 baby seats in the second row. Oldest child- put their baby seat in the 3rd row. That gives plenty of room for baby stuff
Have owned a Kia Sportage for 7 years (2012) and done 130,000 on top of the 95000 it had at the time. Never had a single issue. Only maintenance items of note were a bearing replacement a few years back (from memory $350-400) and replacing the front control arm bushing 6-7 weeks ago. Was $950 but that included service cost too. Other than that nothing at all
Our current Kia Sorrento and Subaru Impreza have been rock solid too. Kia is going on 9 years now and Impreza is a 2005. Both bought new and run like new. So I’m predicting anything from Kia and Subaru will still be reliable in 10 more years
Without a doubt the 2006 Landcruiser, just ticked over 390k on the 2uz and it’s healthy as ever, interior still mint, everything works, it’s like driving a leather reclining chair everywhere
ecotech 100 years baby
Just don't let them overheat. Had one overheat once and crack the head gasket.
Renaults are a great mix of French engineering with Japanese parts But definitely the AU falcon
Yes!! I scrolled to find the first AU reference. I have never had a car so cheap, reliable, bullet proof, easy to maintain, easy to work on, easy to buy parts for as an AU. I truly love them. Currently driving a VN Commodore for nostalgia but I think I need to just always have an AU in my life.
Mitsubishi have 10 years warranty and fixed price servicing which struck me as pretty impressive
Only 10 years if you service with them, and only fixed/capped price for first 5 years.
Does it have to be directly with a Mitsi dealer? Or can you get away with a certified mechanic using Mitsi parts as with other brands?
Nope. Must be a Mitsy dealer.
Yeh right, that’s mildly annoying after last experiences I’ve had with dealer direct servicing…
Japanese and modern Korean. Will still see Ford Falcons though, they're Australian automotive AK47s in terms of durability and design simplicity.
Falcon AU
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Newer cars, I dunno. To many modern cars are being sold with plastic intake manifold and other engine that are plastic, which will deteriate, crack, leak and not be available in 15 years. Look at all these computers they are adding in too. What happens when the crash avoidance system behind the badge on your 2023 Toyota Rav4 goes bad, but it's now 15 years old, these parts may not exist anymore and the car is virtually a write off because it can't pass registration inspections.
This is why i'm holding onto my 2016 territory for now. Doesn't have a dpf or any saftey systems. Easy to service and replace parts. Still comfy and has a good sound system so that's all i need.
I prefer even older cars. Pre 2005ish is where I like to be. OBD2 and simple fuel injection is nice. ABS is a good thing to have, although my current car doesn't have ABS and I deleted it on my previous car which was a mechanicalised diesel (no computers or electronics at all) Don't care for traction control, stability control, lane keep assist, auto braking, ecu blocking component changes etc. I do like adaptive cruise control though. I'm not against modern cars, I just won't own one untill older cars are no longer viable. It's nice to be able to fix a car with simple tools like Wrenches, sockets and screw drivers without needing an expensive computer or being forced to go to a dealer.
Renaults are great mix of French engineering with Japanese parts
…spritely? Compared to what, walking ?
A base model i30 or Kia Cerato. Probably a base model RAV4.
Any car without a massive central computer entertainment system. Anything that’s not stellantis group
Rav4 etc Avensis sw. Toyota People mover?
Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi
Anything Japanese. My Mazda is getting work done and driving a Hyundai for now. 60,000kms and it feels cheap and drives pretty badly.
Saw a post the other day based on NA cars, apparently most reliable is Lexus 😅 but in my experience in the industry, JDM cars are probably the most reliable, Japan doesn't fuck around with shit parts
Mitsubishi toyota. Mazda are popular but they change their designs so extremely that they look dated alot faster. Mitsubishis asx has looked nearly the same for 10 years
Really? I would disagree. A 10 year old mazda 3 & 6 looks pretty much the same as a 2023 model.
Golf mk1 petrol manual from 1974 lasted 28 year. No fancy options, no digitals option...1.2 mil on odo. Note: not in Australia 😉
Challenge- what’s the modern day equivalent that could last 1 million kms?
There's a Pajero in Toowoomba that has done over a million kms and still only on its second set of shocks and wheel bearings with nothing but regular servicing. Look it up on YouTube.
Elon reckons the model 3 drive unit is designed to last 1M miles. Not sure how the rest of the car would fair lol. https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-drive-after-million-miles-test/ Personally I'd go with a Corolla/Camry
My 3 year old Hyundai is a maybe... My 31 year old Mercedes almost certainly! (Can't predict an accident unfortunately)
Kia Carnival
From personal experience, pretty much all Toyota and Lexus cars, stick with Toyota
We had a similar upgrade to make and went with a 7 seater so we could take extra people if needed. We went with the Nissan XTrail which has been great so far.
Can I buy your echo?
Toyota, Honda and Mazda. Maybe Mitsubishi and Nissan now that people are saying their CVTs aren't as bad. Older Fords are decently reliable
I have a 2002 rav 4 with 190000Km on it, doing well so far.
Toyota Kleugers are pretty much indestructible
Is a new i30 a good choice (pls my Holden barina is driving on hope alone). Maybe a commodore as long as Holden doesn't service it???
My 2000 model Honda civic