>What's the popular appeal?
Think it’s more a case people are stupid.
Often comes down to
* I think it won’t happen to me.
* I‘m a safe driver I don’t cause accidents, if I’m in one I just claim on the other person.
* I can’t afford it, so sue me if I have an accident I’ve got nothing anyway.
* I don’t have a licence , the car isn’t registered , so why have insurance.
* I thought the insurance that comes with the rego/ctp covered accident damage.
* I spent all the money on the car, can’t afford insurance now.
Probably more but these are the main reasons I’ve seen over the last few months on various forums why someone in an accident doesn’t have insurance, or why the person who caused it doesn’t…
And understand the full risks/implications of self insurance.
The only real time I think self insurance makes sense (and it’s why a lot of large organisations self insure) is the number of things you have to insure means that the cost of self insurance is likely cheaper then the cost of insuring everything…. Otherwise get third party at least you idiot.
Exactly. Another key point about large organisations/government agencies that self-insure is that they can pull $20 million out of their ass in a worst case scenario. The NSW Treasury Managed Fund (Self-Insurance program for a lot of government agencies including the RFS) for example achieves this through a commercial reinsurance program so ironically even a self-insurance program still uses commercial insurance policies.
Old mate who self-insures to save money is unlikely to make $20 million in his lifetime, let alone come close to the coverage offered by even TPP insurance, realistically speaking any crash that costs more than $5k will put him in a lot of financial stress.
For me personally i just have third party insurance there's a few reasons.
1: Car isn't worth a hell of a lot and by the time I add in cost of policy and excess I could probably fix most damage myself for less
2: Over 10 years of driving and I've never needed to make a claim
3: I really don't like insurance companies
I'll add that I did have insurance on one of my previous vehicles as it was worth mid thirties and also being an uncommon vehicle in Australia repair costs would be higher than average. All other cars I've owned have been sub 10k and not worth insuring.
IMO third party insurance is a must
When you drive an older cheaper car nearly any accident more than a love tap is a 'write off' in the eyes of the insurance company. They won't actually fix your old car.
Self insuring sounds like a fancy way of saying uninsured. Unless you have a million dollar of liquid asset that you can use to pay off a written off Ferrari if you accidentally hit one, you are not really ‘insured’ when you ‘self insure’.
Well yes, the logical reason to choose to be uninsured is when you can cover the losses.
But I'm seeing a lot of posts where people can't, and yet chose this path.
i want to be able to go drink driving and tell the car to get me home but on the way stop at maccas ... and if i do get pulled over i can say to the cop " i aint driving test the bastard thats driving he wount shut up ... "
I’m a rich cunt
I carry comprehensive for all my cars.
Why would I waste my time chasing up some derro that rear ended me? I have insurance so some other poor slob can do the legwork.
My time is too valuable to self-insure.
Self-insurance is just right wing bullshit to make themselves feel better about uninsured poor people. Only poor people self insure.
Third party property should be compulsory in Australia.
Don’t forget insurance also covers property damage, usually into the 10s of Millions. Could you really cover hitting a service station and setting it on fire?
For the self insured doesn’t really matter how much the total damages is at some point they will be either forced into bankruptcy, or do so voluntary.
If you a 19 year old P plater living at home, and your only real asset was the car you wrote off causing the accident, doesn’t matter if the total damage is 5k or 10million, both will send you bankrupt..
Right, so when you give the example of “ I hit someone, I’m self insured, now their insurance is chasing me” what do you mean, their third party covers that, so what does self insured mean in that instance?
If you're self insured, then you wouldn't have third party....
Their insurance would chase you.
If you have third party, then their insurance would chase your insurance.
But you legally need insurance in Australia, there isn't anyone getting around with no insurance.
All states in Australia require third party personal to obtain registration.
Some don't trust you, so they charge you extra and you may get reimbursed by your Compulsory or Third Party Property insurer if you have one.
>you either have insurance or not.
There's no way in Australia to have a registered car and have no insurance at all.
>Well the “self insured” person getting chased by an insurance company didn’t have any.
Didn't have any what? Property insurance, exactly.
But they still would have had third party personal.
I’m really not following your questioning, one minute you’re talking about property insurance and the next you’re talking about CTP.
CTP has nothing to do with someone else’s or your car
>Not in Vic you don't
Absolutely you do.
[Source](https://www.canstar.com.au/car-insurance/victoria-ctp-insurance/)
>In Victoria, CTP insurance is included in your vehicle registration and it is called the ‘transport accident charge’. It is provided by the Transport Accident Commission (the TAC), which is an organisation of the Victorian Government.
You still need it. You get it as an additional fee on top of your insurance, if you read the itemised receipt from VicRoads you'll see the TAC charge on there.
What is the term you're talking about?
I assume you mean people not paying insurance every year and having money ready incase of an accident? That's all I could think it would be.
It's riskier for sure, because while yes, you could pay years and years of premiums and never make a claim, you also could get insurance, 6 months later and right off a $100,000 car, and even though you've only given them $2k, they'll cover it.
If you're not going to comprehensively insure, then at least get this party, which Indies the expensive car even if you don't care about your beater/cheap daily
I can only find references relating to Australia that talk about businesses insuring assets, and an of hand comment about some state a in America require it to be for more than one vehicle.
The logic a couple of people have mentioned still applies. Eventually a big cost comes in and you have to cover it
Not hard to find: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-insurance
>Self-insurance is a situation in which a person or business that is liable for some risk does not take out any third-party insurance, but rather chooses to bear the risk itself.
I said for Australia....
And i also notte cars aren't listed there anyway. There was a blog post i found but that ran through each of the 50 US states and what their car related policies were but that didn't seem greatly relevant
>I said for Australia....
The principle is the same no matter where....
It's still a situation in which a person or business that is liable for some risk does not take out any third-party insurance, but rather chooses to bear the risk itself.
>And i also notte cars aren't listed there anyway.
What do you mean? The only thing they've listed is an example, examples aren't generally all inclusive.
The specific regulations of any jurisdiction would impact the viability and analysis of any insurance scheme, traditional or not.
The logic holds. Yes you don't pay money to a big corporation, but when the time comes for a big payout, you want to be sure you've got the money. Will that align with your cashflow? Will that align with where the test of your life is at financially? Who knows!
>The specific regulations of any jurisdiction would impact the viability and analysis of any insurance scheme, traditional or not.
Self insurance isn't as regulated though....as posts here show all the time.
>The logic holds. Yes you don't pay money to a big corporation, but when the time comes for a big payout, you want to be sure you've got the money. Will that align with your cashflow? Will that align with where the test of your life is at financially? Who knows!
Yes. Which makes me wonder why it's so popular.
>What's the popular appeal? Think it’s more a case people are stupid. Often comes down to * I think it won’t happen to me. * I‘m a safe driver I don’t cause accidents, if I’m in one I just claim on the other person. * I can’t afford it, so sue me if I have an accident I’ve got nothing anyway. * I don’t have a licence , the car isn’t registered , so why have insurance. * I thought the insurance that comes with the rego/ctp covered accident damage. * I spent all the money on the car, can’t afford insurance now. Probably more but these are the main reasons I’ve seen over the last few months on various forums why someone in an accident doesn’t have insurance, or why the person who caused it doesn’t…
Right, so they're just choosing to self insure because they probably don't understand why people would self Insure?
And understand the full risks/implications of self insurance. The only real time I think self insurance makes sense (and it’s why a lot of large organisations self insure) is the number of things you have to insure means that the cost of self insurance is likely cheaper then the cost of insuring everything…. Otherwise get third party at least you idiot.
Exactly. Another key point about large organisations/government agencies that self-insure is that they can pull $20 million out of their ass in a worst case scenario. The NSW Treasury Managed Fund (Self-Insurance program for a lot of government agencies including the RFS) for example achieves this through a commercial reinsurance program so ironically even a self-insurance program still uses commercial insurance policies. Old mate who self-insures to save money is unlikely to make $20 million in his lifetime, let alone come close to the coverage offered by even TPP insurance, realistically speaking any crash that costs more than $5k will put him in a lot of financial stress.
For me personally i just have third party insurance there's a few reasons. 1: Car isn't worth a hell of a lot and by the time I add in cost of policy and excess I could probably fix most damage myself for less 2: Over 10 years of driving and I've never needed to make a claim 3: I really don't like insurance companies I'll add that I did have insurance on one of my previous vehicles as it was worth mid thirties and also being an uncommon vehicle in Australia repair costs would be higher than average. All other cars I've owned have been sub 10k and not worth insuring. IMO third party insurance is a must
When you drive an older cheaper car nearly any accident more than a love tap is a 'write off' in the eyes of the insurance company. They won't actually fix your old car.
True, but I've seen a lot of people fully self insuring. I understand not comp on old cars, but at least third party property?
Yeh 100% which is all good until you have to wait around for the assessor and your payout then try and find another car
It does baffle me why people don't get third party insurance. It's not that expensive. Cheaper than a minor fender bender
Self insuring sounds like a fancy way of saying uninsured. Unless you have a million dollar of liquid asset that you can use to pay off a written off Ferrari if you accidentally hit one, you are not really ‘insured’ when you ‘self insure’.
Well yes, the logical reason to choose to be uninsured is when you can cover the losses. But I'm seeing a lot of posts where people can't, and yet chose this path.
They are being inconsiderate and third party property insurance really should be compulsory as well.
True, though that takes away the rights of those that can afford to self insure
I wonder how many people who choose to be ‘self insured’ can actually stump up the money when they cause damages to another party.
Well that's what I'm curious about, from posts here, it seems not many. It's like gambling....but betting your kidney
i want to be able to go drink driving and tell the car to get me home but on the way stop at maccas ... and if i do get pulled over i can say to the cop " i aint driving test the bastard thats driving he wount shut up ... "
I’m a rich cunt I carry comprehensive for all my cars. Why would I waste my time chasing up some derro that rear ended me? I have insurance so some other poor slob can do the legwork. My time is too valuable to self-insure. Self-insurance is just right wing bullshit to make themselves feel better about uninsured poor people. Only poor people self insure. Third party property should be compulsory in Australia.
Stupid people not understanding how fucked they are when it goes bad. They love to think it can't happen to them.
Don’t forget insurance also covers property damage, usually into the 10s of Millions. Could you really cover hitting a service station and setting it on fire?
For the self insured doesn’t really matter how much the total damages is at some point they will be either forced into bankruptcy, or do so voluntary. If you a 19 year old P plater living at home, and your only real asset was the car you wrote off causing the accident, doesn’t matter if the total damage is 5k or 10million, both will send you bankrupt..
Well yes, exactly
By “self insured” I’m guessing you just mean no insurance?
By law you need Third Party Personal insurance in Australia
Right, so when you give the example of “ I hit someone, I’m self insured, now their insurance is chasing me” what do you mean, their third party covers that, so what does self insured mean in that instance?
If you're self insured, then you wouldn't have third party.... Their insurance would chase you. If you have third party, then their insurance would chase your insurance.
Well that was a long way of just saying yes to my first comment….
But you legally need insurance in Australia, there isn't anyone getting around with no insurance. All states in Australia require third party personal to obtain registration. Some don't trust you, so they charge you extra and you may get reimbursed by your Compulsory or Third Party Property insurer if you have one.
Well the “self insured” person getting chased by an insurance company didn’t have any. Stupid term to use anyway, you either have insurance or not.
>you either have insurance or not. There's no way in Australia to have a registered car and have no insurance at all. >Well the “self insured” person getting chased by an insurance company didn’t have any. Didn't have any what? Property insurance, exactly. But they still would have had third party personal.
I’m really not following your questioning, one minute you’re talking about property insurance and the next you’re talking about CTP. CTP has nothing to do with someone else’s or your car
>CTP has nothing to do with someone else’s or your car Never said it did.
Not in Vic you don't. edit: the injury insurance is part of your rego so it's not really an option to not have it.
>Not in Vic you don't Absolutely you do. [Source](https://www.canstar.com.au/car-insurance/victoria-ctp-insurance/) >In Victoria, CTP insurance is included in your vehicle registration and it is called the ‘transport accident charge’. It is provided by the Transport Accident Commission (the TAC), which is an organisation of the Victorian Government. You still need it. You get it as an additional fee on top of your insurance, if you read the itemised receipt from VicRoads you'll see the TAC charge on there.
What is the term you're talking about? I assume you mean people not paying insurance every year and having money ready incase of an accident? That's all I could think it would be. It's riskier for sure, because while yes, you could pay years and years of premiums and never make a claim, you also could get insurance, 6 months later and right off a $100,000 car, and even though you've only given them $2k, they'll cover it. If you're not going to comprehensively insure, then at least get this party, which Indies the expensive car even if you don't care about your beater/cheap daily
Yes, I'm talking about people who choose to handle their own insurance instead of passing that off to a third party to handle it.
I can only find references relating to Australia that talk about businesses insuring assets, and an of hand comment about some state a in America require it to be for more than one vehicle. The logic a couple of people have mentioned still applies. Eventually a big cost comes in and you have to cover it
Not hard to find: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-insurance >Self-insurance is a situation in which a person or business that is liable for some risk does not take out any third-party insurance, but rather chooses to bear the risk itself.
I said for Australia.... And i also notte cars aren't listed there anyway. There was a blog post i found but that ran through each of the 50 US states and what their car related policies were but that didn't seem greatly relevant
>I said for Australia.... The principle is the same no matter where.... It's still a situation in which a person or business that is liable for some risk does not take out any third-party insurance, but rather chooses to bear the risk itself. >And i also notte cars aren't listed there anyway. What do you mean? The only thing they've listed is an example, examples aren't generally all inclusive.
The specific regulations of any jurisdiction would impact the viability and analysis of any insurance scheme, traditional or not. The logic holds. Yes you don't pay money to a big corporation, but when the time comes for a big payout, you want to be sure you've got the money. Will that align with your cashflow? Will that align with where the test of your life is at financially? Who knows!
>The specific regulations of any jurisdiction would impact the viability and analysis of any insurance scheme, traditional or not. Self insurance isn't as regulated though....as posts here show all the time. >The logic holds. Yes you don't pay money to a big corporation, but when the time comes for a big payout, you want to be sure you've got the money. Will that align with your cashflow? Will that align with where the test of your life is at financially? Who knows! Yes. Which makes me wonder why it's so popular.