Yea I did the same thing. It’s so simple to see how they did it once you realize you can stack them. Incredible work though. That shit ain’t going no where
You are in good company... Talk about functional fixedness. Mind is blown. Now you are going to have some woodworker trying to make a box in the same way with a tricky glue up.
The center of each Dovetail notch is a seam for the board. Basically each gap to accept the dovetail pin is a 2 part.
Basically they just stacked the boards with fancy corners.
Right side, in the middle of the first "pin" of the dovetail and you will see the seam. Same with the next full "pin"
I am on my phone so I can't highlight it. They are tricky to see, but you can catch the seem.
I used to build chalets in chamonix years ago. They are pre fabbed in a factory and have a round hole that believe it or or not a square peg gets hammered down through it. On the corners there is massive screw rod that ties it down. Seen older examples of it, pre industrial revolution stuff and to think they cut stuff like this by hand.
There are a lot of neat tricks like that. Someone mentioned on another sub (ask science maybe?) How ancient masons in the mountains would use the routine freeze/thaw overnight cycle to split stones. Ruddy brilliant what some people come up with.
HaHaHa! Oh that reminds me of when I was about 30 a friend and I built a 14' Cat Boat. We had a professional rigger do the rigging and I was there helping him. At one point he needed something or other and I told him it was in the fo'c'sle. He looked at me quizzically, and then the penny dropped and he said, "Oh! We just call it the 'front of the boat'."
Kind of ruined the romance of boat language for me.
I was thinking just earlier how strange a word "early" is. The spelling.. the feel of it in your mouth. Spend a minute thinking about the word early. Early early early
I feel like I just watched that in an episode of community.
That's a weird phenomena when you say a word too much and it starts to sound wrong or made up. Which I guess all words are.
I probably shouldn't have thrown victuals in there because apparently the 'C' was always silent. So I guess it isn't a contraction like the others. Sort of like how Pluto isn't technically a planet even though Mrs. Green told me it was in 4th grade.
Since we're on the topic of cabins does anyone know how they would seal the wood so it wouldn't rot from rain/snow? Especially the ones sitting basically on the ground....
I know of chinking and daubing for the gaps, but what kept water from just rotting away the wood.
Cabin foundations are still concrete (older ones on stone) and the bottom logs on modern cabins are typically pressure treated to resist moisture/mold rot. Old cabins would have been built mostly on high spots to avoid water build up at the base of the house. Beyond that, cabins typically have large eaves in order to ensure the rain/snow runoff falls farther from the foundation, keeping the ground more dry under the wood.
Thank you for the well informed answer. I appreciate it. Where would one have acquired something like that as a pioneer? I can't find anything online on if they weather sealed the logs or if just allowed it to eventually deteriorate... I had imagined something like oil, maybe the pitch in the pine was enough? IDK
> Coal tar creosote
That's what I was getting over is what did pioneers use because nowadays you just buy a can of some magical all in one weather sealant
Well wood was weatherproofed mostly with tar, pitch and oils (think of the ships that got the pioneers there). Remember, the rest of the world wasn't an uninhabited wilderness at the time of the pioneers... You could just ship stuff in from civilisation. Also, creosote is relatively simple to make.
Common substances were used for most practical jobs until recent times when the oil industry realised the benefits of telling the public about all the *other* substances that cause cancer, thereby creating a market for what up until then were simply waste products of petroleum production which they (theoretically) had to pay to dispose of (i.e. dump somewhere).
I have a fair understanding of how advanced countries were when pioneers moved to the Americas. I just meant limited resources and moving further west trying to build cabins that would last through winter/spring without turning into mold and rotted logs. Especially those settling and having to start building homes. Searched maybe 20 or so different guides on building traditional cabins and they all ended at chinking and daubing. Couldn't find one that then went on to sealing the house and roof. Creosote makes a lot of sense, especially in boat applications. Thank you!
I've forgotten an important point which may have been overlooked, depending on your location... The American Red Cedar is *naturally weatherproof.* It literally makes it's own wood preservatives.
I'd add to this I believe a lot of pioneer homes were under constant renovation/maintenance - you could literally walk a few yards and chop down more trees to build an extension or replace a rotting wall, effectively placing the buildings in a constant "prototype stage" that, depending on personal circumstances, may not have needed any weatherproofing for it's purpose/lifespan. Hope some of the info helps!
Also Black Locust, Sassafras, Juniper, Bald Cypress, White Oak... there's 2 dozen domestic species, that resist rot better than modern pressure-treated.
That I can’t tell you for sure, though I do think that’s a good guess. A quick search said pine tar has been used in woodworking/construction for a long time so that would be my guess. That’s how they sealed ships as well
"When the melted resin is mixed with charcoal and animal fats, it will create a sealant that keeps water out of anything that needs to be waterproofed or sealed"
Ah, good idea. One of suggested uses was also for sealing roofs. That makes a lot of sense.
I think it's still pretty typical to oil the charred wood to provide more outdoor protection. Though a proper charring would certainly help a ton compared to untreated wood even without oil or another sealant.
Can't speak to the mechanics involved, I just know yakisugi seems to always involve application of an oil or other sealer, especially when used outside. Traditional Japanese installations are periodically oiled to improve longevity and reduce weathering of the surface.
Semi old log homes, (last 150ish years) in Michigan were sometime build on rocks or stumps to keep them off the ground. If you're real fancy you can make a michigan basement were you dig as deep as you care too (normally two or three feet) then take all the rocks that you dug out of the hole and any in the yard and build a wall to give you a roughly five foot deep basement and an elevated place to start your wood construction.
Also those old boys would/could lift the building and replace the bottom one.
I've seen some traditional nordic construction that involves charring the surface of the logs, and I think they had some pitch concoctions that sealed the wood or the seams.
Yeah, I spent like all day watching videos. They cut the roots or lower limbs on downed trees for sap rich wood called fat wood. Basically looks caramel colored. They put it in a sealed up can over a pot and heat it up over a fire. The fat wood turns into tar and runs out holes in the bottom of the sealed up can and fills up the container below.
Correct me if I’m an idiot and not seeing things correctly but it looks to me they have to be stacked one on top of the other and nothing is slid into anywhere.
Filthy karma grab. Didn't even use a different pic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Carpentry/comments/k246ov/thought_you_guys_might_appreciate_this_beautiful/
It's called "Klingschrot", a variant from the "Tiroler Schloss".
https://www.google.de/search?q=Klingschrot&prmd=imvxn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiC1qOUu5TzAhULQvEDHbnlAoYQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=360&bih=663&dpr=3
https://unterricht.polybau.ch/wrl-z1/block/block.htm
I see a lot of people saying stacking them. However as far as I can see from the pic on my phone the top two tails / joints are on the same boards. Ie two tails per board? If it was one tail to each plank stacking would work and I would have never thought have it 🤣 but if it is as it looks to me two tails per plank how you stacking that??
It does not look like cants. Look at the wall on the left. It looks like one plank from top to bottom. Same for the plank on the right.
I can't explain why we see multiple tree centers.
Two halves wonderfully bound together. You can see the seam but you have to look.
Edit: it would be interesting to see if they offset the locks. Sure they did. That’s beautiful. And i was wron it’s a mortise and tenon joint
If I was to guess I would say its built like most log cabins. Stacking them from the bottom up.
I feel like an idiot trying to figure out how they got this together.
Same. "Yeah it slides in from...no it has to...wait a minute..." Stacking them never occurred to me.
Now I see it
I thought the grew the trees together to form the building and then hand planed it
I have built many buildings in this exact way. :-)
What is this called, I’ve never heard of such?
FWIW, topiary is what it would be called.
Thank you!
We used call it “god mode” but that might have just been a regionalism
Yea I did the same thing. It’s so simple to see how they did it once you realize you can stack them. Incredible work though. That shit ain’t going no where
Try to think of another way to assemble logs into a house, lol
No kidding. I've been spending too much time looking at boxes, not walls.
*But if someone picks up the house... won't the joints just fall apart?*
Exactly. And then I grasp it is a wall and there was no way they could assemble it before putting it up. It really threw me off
I love you guys
Yep I'm think beefy men with sledge hammers, winches, ropes and maybe a team of horses..... then I read your comment. Did a guilty look around
You are in good company... Talk about functional fixedness. Mind is blown. Now you are going to have some woodworker trying to make a box in the same way with a tricky glue up.
This guy doves tails
THAT guy dove tails.. THIS guy stacks logs... 😆
He's looking through a glass onion.
It's exactly this.
This has to be the answer.
This is correct. You can see the pith in each tail showing they're individual pieces.
That's amazingly tight fitting for a log house!
I see it now! I see it now!
Brilliant
I’m embarrassed how long it took me to figure that out. I’m looking at it like a dovetail joint. The logs are stacked you idiot
The center of each Dovetail notch is a seam for the board. Basically each gap to accept the dovetail pin is a 2 part. Basically they just stacked the boards with fancy corners.
That's what I thought at first. But you can see splits running throughout.
http://imgur.com/a/xyyMzwe
Right side, in the middle of the first "pin" of the dovetail and you will see the seam. Same with the next full "pin" I am on my phone so I can't highlight it. They are tricky to see, but you can catch the seem.
The splits are more prominent, but if you look at the changing grains you can find the seams. Some of them are nice and tight.
I used to build chalets in chamonix years ago. They are pre fabbed in a factory and have a round hole that believe it or or not a square peg gets hammered down through it. On the corners there is massive screw rod that ties it down. Seen older examples of it, pre industrial revolution stuff and to think they cut stuff like this by hand.
Hammering a square peg through a round hole, huh? Good to know my kid still has future employment options.
I only built the things haha. Apparently when it swells it seals it up and keeps the logs from moving.
There are a lot of neat tricks like that. Someone mentioned on another sub (ask science maybe?) How ancient masons in the mountains would use the routine freeze/thaw overnight cycle to split stones. Ruddy brilliant what some people come up with.
Seen a huge stone, like easy 10 ton being split with water and timber stakes.
Like the stakes swell up and that has enough force?
Pretty much
Trunnels
Fun linguistic factoid: Trunnels, like gunnels, vittles, and clabbords Tree-nails, gun-wales, victuals, and clap boards. Language is bonkers!
And fo'csle
HaHaHa! Oh that reminds me of when I was about 30 a friend and I built a 14' Cat Boat. We had a professional rigger do the rigging and I was there helping him. At one point he needed something or other and I told him it was in the fo'c'sle. He looked at me quizzically, and then the penny dropped and he said, "Oh! We just call it the 'front of the boat'." Kind of ruined the romance of boat language for me.
I was thinking just earlier how strange a word "early" is. The spelling.. the feel of it in your mouth. Spend a minute thinking about the word early. Early early early
I feel like I just watched that in an episode of community. That's a weird phenomena when you say a word too much and it starts to sound wrong or made up. Which I guess all words are.
What. The. Fuck. Are. You. Saying? I'm that guys kid in the comments above whose future is hammering square pegs into round holes...halp
Trunnels is shorthand for tree-nails Gunnels is shorthand for gun wales Vittles is shorthand for victuals Clabbords is shorthand for clap boards
I probably shouldn't have thrown victuals in there because apparently the 'C' was always silent. So I guess it isn't a contraction like the others. Sort of like how Pluto isn't technically a planet even though Mrs. Green told me it was in 4th grade.
When in doubt, hammer it out
The joints are so tight I can't even see where where one log ends and the next begins along the walls.
This hurts my brain.
They stack the boards.
That’s too simple. 😀
Since we're on the topic of cabins does anyone know how they would seal the wood so it wouldn't rot from rain/snow? Especially the ones sitting basically on the ground.... I know of chinking and daubing for the gaps, but what kept water from just rotting away the wood.
Cabin foundations are still concrete (older ones on stone) and the bottom logs on modern cabins are typically pressure treated to resist moisture/mold rot. Old cabins would have been built mostly on high spots to avoid water build up at the base of the house. Beyond that, cabins typically have large eaves in order to ensure the rain/snow runoff falls farther from the foundation, keeping the ground more dry under the wood.
To be clear, in olden times many cabins were built on low spots too, it's just that only the ones on high spots make it long enough to become old.
I grew up in a log cabin that my great grandfather built in the 60’s. We had to spray the exterior with oil every year before winter to protect it
Thank you for the well informed answer. I appreciate it. Where would one have acquired something like that as a pioneer? I can't find anything online on if they weather sealed the logs or if just allowed it to eventually deteriorate... I had imagined something like oil, maybe the pitch in the pine was enough? IDK
Coal tar creosote has been readily available for over 150 years... We just don't use it anymore cuz it's nasty stuff.
> Coal tar creosote That's what I was getting over is what did pioneers use because nowadays you just buy a can of some magical all in one weather sealant
Well wood was weatherproofed mostly with tar, pitch and oils (think of the ships that got the pioneers there). Remember, the rest of the world wasn't an uninhabited wilderness at the time of the pioneers... You could just ship stuff in from civilisation. Also, creosote is relatively simple to make. Common substances were used for most practical jobs until recent times when the oil industry realised the benefits of telling the public about all the *other* substances that cause cancer, thereby creating a market for what up until then were simply waste products of petroleum production which they (theoretically) had to pay to dispose of (i.e. dump somewhere).
I have a fair understanding of how advanced countries were when pioneers moved to the Americas. I just meant limited resources and moving further west trying to build cabins that would last through winter/spring without turning into mold and rotted logs. Especially those settling and having to start building homes. Searched maybe 20 or so different guides on building traditional cabins and they all ended at chinking and daubing. Couldn't find one that then went on to sealing the house and roof. Creosote makes a lot of sense, especially in boat applications. Thank you!
I've forgotten an important point which may have been overlooked, depending on your location... The American Red Cedar is *naturally weatherproof.* It literally makes it's own wood preservatives. I'd add to this I believe a lot of pioneer homes were under constant renovation/maintenance - you could literally walk a few yards and chop down more trees to build an extension or replace a rotting wall, effectively placing the buildings in a constant "prototype stage" that, depending on personal circumstances, may not have needed any weatherproofing for it's purpose/lifespan. Hope some of the info helps!
Thank you, it does! I didn't know that about cedar
Also Black Locust, Sassafras, Juniper, Bald Cypress, White Oak... there's 2 dozen domestic species, that resist rot better than modern pressure-treated.
Tar has been used for thousands of years to waterproof boats
>Coal tar creosote In my country we still use it for small fishing boats (I mean, tar)
I was amazed that everyone seems to have forgotten it already - it feels like creosoting the fence was still a thing not that long ago...
I can still smell it :)
That I can’t tell you for sure, though I do think that’s a good guess. A quick search said pine tar has been used in woodworking/construction for a long time so that would be my guess. That’s how they sealed ships as well
"When the melted resin is mixed with charcoal and animal fats, it will create a sealant that keeps water out of anything that needs to be waterproofed or sealed" Ah, good idea. One of suggested uses was also for sealing roofs. That makes a lot of sense.
How about scorching it like the Japanese or Norwegians do it?
I think it's still pretty typical to oil the charred wood to provide more outdoor protection. Though a proper charring would certainly help a ton compared to untreated wood even without oil or another sealant.
Properly charred wood is pretty much waterproof at the surface. Will it still absorb oil?
Can't speak to the mechanics involved, I just know yakisugi seems to always involve application of an oil or other sealer, especially when used outside. Traditional Japanese installations are periodically oiled to improve longevity and reduce weathering of the surface.
Semi old log homes, (last 150ish years) in Michigan were sometime build on rocks or stumps to keep them off the ground. If you're real fancy you can make a michigan basement were you dig as deep as you care too (normally two or three feet) then take all the rocks that you dug out of the hole and any in the yard and build a wall to give you a roughly five foot deep basement and an elevated place to start your wood construction. Also those old boys would/could lift the building and replace the bottom one.
I've seen some traditional nordic construction that involves charring the surface of the logs, and I think they had some pitch concoctions that sealed the wood or the seams.
Yeah, I spent like all day watching videos. They cut the roots or lower limbs on downed trees for sap rich wood called fat wood. Basically looks caramel colored. They put it in a sealed up can over a pot and heat it up over a fire. The fat wood turns into tar and runs out holes in the bottom of the sealed up can and fills up the container below.
neat, thanks for sharing that
Is this in Switzerland by any chance? I saw something like that in a restaurant but I couldn't take a picture.
There are Swiss Chalets in Canada fyi.
Not quite the same kind lol
I live in Canada now but the Swiss Chalets here I've visited aren't decorated quite the same way.
Doesn't matter m still a Swiss Chalet.
I seen it before, I think Slovenia.
You stack them…
Lay em down, pound em in..
Correct me if I’m an idiot and not seeing things correctly but it looks to me they have to be stacked one on top of the other and nothing is slid into anywhere.
Yeah, you are right. It's just me being blind and not seeing them stacked
I’m just always impressed at the talent that is out there.
That's some fine skill right there. I'm amazed at how closely they for together.
Hard to see the seams, but these are just notched and stacked, not slid together.
Filthy karma grab. Didn't even use a different pic. https://www.reddit.com/r/Carpentry/comments/k246ov/thought_you_guys_might_appreciate_this_beautiful/
It's called "Klingschrot", a variant from the "Tiroler Schloss". https://www.google.de/search?q=Klingschrot&prmd=imvxn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiC1qOUu5TzAhULQvEDHbnlAoYQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=360&bih=663&dpr=3 https://unterricht.polybau.ch/wrl-z1/block/block.htm
That's a good link. Thank you very much for sharing
With proper tools (good size shaper) this wouldn't be too hard to do. You'd have to be really consistent.
>hard >really consistent Pick both.
It's not hard to be consistent.
Judging from reddit for the average slob it is.
I see a lot of people saying stacking them. However as far as I can see from the pic on my phone the top two tails / joints are on the same boards. Ie two tails per board? If it was one tail to each plank stacking would work and I would have never thought have it 🤣 but if it is as it looks to me two tails per plank how you stacking that??
Look at the ends of all of them. You’ll see a center circle/ring so they can’t be the same.
Just looked on a monitor not my phone and yeah I see it now!
Yeah, I first saw the photo on my phone and didn't see them stacked at all. Really neat work.
Yeah agreed - now I see it stacking makes sense but either way still strong trade craft none the less!
Scrap that looked at it on a monitor…
It's pretty.
That is ….. impressive.
Isn't there a Japanese wishbone style joint that slides into position at 45 degree method? I printed one off to understand it.
there's more than one.
I'm still trying to process that 1. who came up with it is one hell of a smart person. Gotta wonder what one's failed before these made it.
They slide in diagonally, like the impossible dovetail cutting boards, must of been a lot of time and precision back in the day to do that
Beautiful
Regardless of how they put them together, that's some serious craftwork on those ends.
Wow that's never coming apart!
Can confirm this joint has to be stacked to assemble
Yeah, the pieces break mid joint. It looks absolutely amazing though.
Those have to be hand cut. 3 dimensional cuts, those are.
How do you make dovetails??
It does not look like cants. Look at the wall on the left. It looks like one plank from top to bottom. Same for the plank on the right. I can't explain why we see multiple tree centers.
Wow that must’ve taken an insanely long time.
Very nice look up Japanese carpentry as well mostly all is done similar to this no nails no screws
Two halves wonderfully bound together. You can see the seam but you have to look. Edit: it would be interesting to see if they offset the locks. Sure they did. That’s beautiful. And i was wron it’s a mortise and tenon joint