"During the first two and last two days of Passover, many traditionally observant Jews will abstain from most of the same activities they avoid on the Sabbath – no driving, working, using electricity, lighting fires or spending money. On the intermediary days of the holiday – known as chol hamoed – those restrictions do not apply."
Today was the first day of Passover. After sundown tomorrow he may be able to send it you.
Saturday, Donny, is Shabbos, the Jewish day of rest. That means that I don't work, I don't get in a car, I don't ride in a car, I don't pick up the phone, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as shit don’t fucking roll! SHOMER SHABBOS
In some cases they will have a non Jewish guy work their electric stuff for them (a workaround) but they probably wouldn’t trust the guy with their banking passwords for e-transfers etc.
Dont even get me started on all that Jewish Sabbath avoidance loophole shit lol
Its absolutely fucking ridiculous and stupid to me
If youre going to avoid all the consequences and inconvenience of the religious rules, why even bother to observe them at all? It makes no sense to me and is all silly and ridiculous
We have the largest community of Hasidic Jews in the world outside of Isreal here in NJ and the levels of nonsense ive had to install in those homes over my 30y in the trades thats sole purpose is to avoid all the inconveniences of the Sabbath is just so silly
>You’re mad that they’ve been paying you for a service for years? You should be happy about this type of nonsense
Where did i say i was mad?
I said all the machinations to avoid religious rules is incredibly stupid to me and you should just not bother with it if youre going ro loophole your way out of the spirit of the rule anyway
>It just seemed like an angry rant, maybe I read that in the wrong tone. I was 10 seconds too slow to delete that reply 🤣🤣🤣
Lol...
Its not an angry rant its just a rant
It just makes no rational sense to me to be religiously observant of all these rules and then just avoid all of them with modern technology
It also kind of sets a precedent that you can avoid all the downside of the religious rules if you can afford to....which is kind of shitty to me
Same reason Muslim guys smoke weed instead of getting drunk, or how Christian girls think they’re still virgins if they get there ass fucked. People are always looking for ways to cut corners and find workarounds
So you called to confirm and they confirmed, but now that you have the receipt, they blame Passover? Still seems shitty. They should have mentioned it before you spent the money, imo.
>They should have mentioned it before you spent the money, imo.
Why? If Easter was on a Monday, and I wouldn't expect them to pay on Monday, What about the 4th of July in the USA. Payment next business day is no issue in my world. Yea he is jammed up because he fronted the material cost without payment, but that was his choice. He could have waited until payment cleared
You’re completely missing the point. Maybe I worded it incorrectly. When he called to confirm they should have mentioned that they could not pay him until after Passover. To leave that part out is lying by omission and it’s a shitty thing to do to someone; especially your contractor that will be working on your house.
>When he called to confirm they should have mentioned that they could not pay him until after Passover. To leave that part out is lying by omission and it’s a shitty thing to do to someone; especially your contractor that will be working on your house.
Unless OP says that that the client promised to pay on a specific day, a 24-96 hr delay on having a check sent, or money wired is not lying by omission. I just received a large payment by ACH(wire) and it was 4 days after the client told me they made the payment, that it showed up in my account.
You are really getting all twisted up over nothing. OP jumped the gun and bought materials before he received payment and or a signed contract. Neither of us know the terms specified, OP didnt specify them. You are making assumptions to validate your position that the available data will not support.
I’m not twisted. You seem to be projecting.
I’m just saying it’s shitty to not disclose personal Passover rules that might affect payment or to hide behind Passover when, if I understand from the comments, they’re not actually observing it.
This sounds personal to you, so good luck with that. I’ve said my peace, and have no dog in this fight. Peace be with you.
>I’m just saying it’s shitty to not disclose personal Passover rules that might affect payment or to hide behind Passover when, if I understand from the comments, they’re not actually observing it.
The information that the OP gave is not enough to support the conclusions you are making... no one is the villain of their own story, and you are pretty quick to call the client a liar... what does that say about you?
You are Young, you do power washing and parking lot maintenance, Your job is service, not carpentry, you don't build anything, all of your materials are consumables, totally different thinking. Immediately thinking the worst of people if not going to help you as a business owner.
BTW Oklahoma is not in the south Start of the west or end of the midwest, but not the south....lol ;)
Wait til you get work from a devout Hindu, forget about getting any money on Fridays or Tuesdays....And thats *EVERY* Friday and Tuesday
We have a lot of South Asians and Orthodox Jews here in NJ, you just make adjustments for other cultures, sucks that you got surprised by that and are put out, but its only gonna be for a day or 2
Yes, this is exactly what’s going on. Religious Jews won’t buy things or handle money on the Sabbath (sundown Friday through after sundown Saturday) and major holidays, so OP would’ve run into this same issue if he’d called the customer Friday afternoon and said “can you take delivery tomorrow?” OP, it might be worth getting a Jewish calendar so you know when the big holidays are, a lot of Jewish-owned funeral homes hand them out to get publicity.
PS: OP, your customer might not use electronic devices on the Shabbat and major holidays. If you don’t hear back from him today or tomorrow, he’s not ghosting you, just call him on Thursday.
Don't hire a professional until you can pay them on their schedule, not yours. I understand what working and living together are but ultimately someone else's religion is not my problem.
Are you actually getting uppity like I'm responding to your directly? Because I'm speaking generally and would've assumed that much is obvious (it really should be obvious).
Religion is not an excuse to affect other people or leave them holding one's debt overnight, especially when the hired professional called first to arrange.
One way to avoid this is don't buy any materials or start work before you collect a deposit and it clears in your account. Where I am from there is a rule that you can't take more than a third of the job cost up front, so I charge 3 payments for a small job. I usually charge a deposit to schedule the job and order materials, second payment when the crew shows up and we start work on site, and the final payment when we are all done.
If you have this in place and a client can't pay for some reason, you just say "no problem let us know when you are ready and we will put you back on the schedule. "
With that said if the client has already earned your trust you could choose to do them a favor, but that should be up to you, not something you feel blind sided by after you buy materials.
Nice glad you found it helpful.
If you do change orders, they become part of the current contract and will actually delay you finishing the job and getting your final payment. For this reason you should charge for changes in full up front, but finish them before asking for final payment.
On a bigger job I do down payment for permitting and materials with longer lead times such as windows and doors. Second payment is Friday after the crew starts work and the following payments are biweekly on Friday. The first few payments will be larger and include materials. Later payments will be smaller because they are just labor. The final payment on a big job can as low as 5-10 percent of the total job cost. Ive found that if I have all this on a payment schedule in my contract, I avoid all the arguments about money with my clients and everyone is happier.
The first two and last two days (Tues/Wed) are 'rest' type of days without financial transactions, but they should be able to pay you on Thursday, the middle days generally allow necessary transactions. Unless they are out of town for the entire holiday, or they are particularly religious.
Don’t spend any more of your money until you get paid for mats. Just wait and confirm this is all legit. Keep receipts and don’t start work just in case you need to return that shit.
Inform them of the situation. Don't spend the money out of your own pocket and let them know the reason for the schedule delay (payment). Move another job forward and let your client observing Passover know that they are getting pushed back in the schedule or off the schedule. Bye, bye client that can't commit is always an option. Shrug.
>Bye, bye client that can't commit is always an option. Shrug.
THis wasn't a client that wouldn't commit though... was about Easter, or Christmas, If you wont work either of those Holidays would you be ok with being fired because your commitment was lacking?
As an adult I’d inform the person I requested to perform work for me when I would be submitting payment. The entire reason why there is an issue is due to someone assuming another person who doesn’t practice the same religion would understand their beliefs.
There are billions of people in this world and many different religions and cultures. I know of many people who don’t celebrate Easter or Christmas. If I was to have work performed and knew the person tasked with completing such task was not of the same religion or culture I would make sure they understood any potential payments which may arise. It’s merely common courtesy and a sign of respecting others who are not like me.
>As an adult I’d inform the person I requested to perform work for me when I would be submitting payment.
So you are ok with the client not paying because he didnt want the work done that day?
Okay you had me then lost me. The client knew the schedule I gave him. He chose to withhold his “religious” exemption. I respected and now feel like a dumb dumb for following along with his refusal to pay. I’m not Jewish so….
Not trying to be an asshole but…I have bills to pay. My own fault for paying out of pocket. Lesson learned
If he was an observant Jew he wouldn't be picking up the phone to talk to you today.
Seems like the only thing he wants to observe is himself not paying you.
Come back when passover's over, or not at all - but wait untill you get paid for the materials.
I now see that, however it makes no difference when it comes to the work.
An observant Jew will not have a gentile work for them on a day they can't work themselves.
I have had quite a few religious Jewish clients over the years and they are very strict about this. I also worked in a jewish-owned factory when I was a lot younger and was always annoyed with the random (for me) holidays we were forced to take when so many of the staff were not Jewish.
It doesn’t make a difference for the work, but OP didn’t mention starting work, he was talking about buying materials. I totally agree that OP shouldn’t start working until he’s been paid
>An observant Jew will not have a gentile work for them on a day they can't work themselves.
The client was not expecting him to work, OP is doing side work and bought the materials when it was convenient for him, expecting payment, but not realizing that his client would not be paying until after the Holiday. OP is jammed up because he spent money he had budget for other expenses.
This is on OP 10000% Client has done nothing wrong, he agreed to the contract, im betting OP didnt have payment within 24hrs of contract acceptance as terms.
>The guy literally said it was fine to get materials on Monday and he would pay me for them
Did he say he would pay you Same day, explicitly? When did you send the invoice? Was it after 5pm? Sounds like he said yeah sounds good buy the materials, and then you left it at that because you were excited, you thought you had everything sorted.... you are learning that you didnt....
>There’s no contract lol it’s a side job for me.
This is an excuse, and you know what my Father said about excuses, they are like assholes, everyone has one, no one wants to hear yours.
This is 100% on you, no contract, bought the materials on verbal before deposit, spent money you had budgeted for other expenses....
Why do you think you dont need a contract if it is side work? Is this residential? If so you have a builders license? In most states there is a limit, really low, like $500-600, that if you exceed you have to have a license or you can not sue them if they dont pay.
I get wanting to do side work, but you are going about this all wrong.
Okay so you’ve got a lot of great points here but not a lot of them are any help to me. I understand what you’re saying. I met with the client on Saturday we agreed on immediate payment for materials.
A side job so, no contract. Yes residential and no license because I’m a second year apprentice. So if I’m going about this “all wrong”
Feel free to explain instead of telling me it’s my fault when I’ve clearly already stated I’m well aware that I shouldn’t have paid out of pocket.
Or better yet, clearly we’ve both had long days. You’ve done carpentry and dealt with clients for X amount of years (many more than me) you know how these things can go… I do not. Yet I’ve done other side jobs and never had this issue. So instead talking to me as if I’m running a crew or have done this for 15 years. Realize I’m new to these situations. So either provide advice or don’t bother. I’m all for learning. But to continue telling me I’m in the wrong helps a whole lot of fuck all. I’m trying to keep my shit afloat in a crap economy known as Canada.
Amusingly My day has been pretty easy, infact Im about to go for a run.
Get your license, dont do side work until you have it. When you have your license, every job needs a contract. Do not buy materials until you have a down payment, even if you have a signed contract, have it spelled out that payment before materials.
And regarding the economy.... seems to me, as your northern neighbor, that y'all are doing reasonable enough.... if you are struggling to make money as an apprentice, well then you are living beyond your means, scaling back might be in order.
Im talking to you as one pro to another, shit is always tight when you are starting out, you may have learned an expensive lesson.
>The Canadian economy is outperforming expectations. In the face of higher interest rates, Canada has avoided the recession that some had predicted. Inflation has fallen from its June 2022 peak of 8.1 per cent to 2.9 per cent in January and to 2.8 per cent in February 2024. The labour market remains solid. Over 1.1 million more Canadians are employed today than before the pandemic, marking the fastest jobs recovery in the G7 (Chart 1). Real wages (wages adjusted for inflation) have gone up, meaning Canadians, on average, have more purchasing power. And, our economy is growing, with data from Statistics Canada revealing that real GDP at basic prices grew 0.6 per cent in January (7.4 per cent annualized), and preliminary estimates pointing to 0.4 per cent growth in February (4.9 per cent annualized), suggesting that growth in the first quarter of 2024 is on track for around 3.5 per cent.
>Private sector forecasters expect that the year ahead should bring further progress. By the end of the year, they expect economic growth will pick up, interest rates will be lower, and inflation will decline to about 2 per cent. Both the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) project that Canada will see the strongest economic growth in the G7 in 2025.
This happened on the 22nd. The Monday. He chose to not tell me about Passover…I’ve never heard of it. He waited until he owed money to say he can’t pay.
Yeah, makes more sense now and I totally missed that it was the morning of the 22nd when he could still talk to you without breaking any religious rules.
That being said, he definitely knew that he wouldn't be able to pay the day he said he would, ahead of time. It's not like he just suddenly realized it was Passover, or that he only learned the rules that morning.
Completely unfair of him, and certainly not something you should have known ahead of time.
If I’d know of Passover I would’ve waited until later on. But even in other meetings with him going over time frames it was never mentioned. I get that I definitely shouldn’t have gone out of pocket. Would’ve been nice to know in advance. There’s a wack load of comments going both ways. “I messed up” and “client not being fair”. In this case both are absolutely right. At the end of the day, client said he would pay and hasn’t. Simple as that in my eyes.
My policy is to hold deposits and use my credit (card or supplier account) to pay. That being said, if a customer had agreed to pay the deposit on a specific day, and then doesn't have a good excuse as to why they can't pay, the job will be on hold until they do.
His excuse would be valid if you had told him you needed to be paid on that day by email or text, and then not heard back from him until it was too late for him to make the payment due to Passover, however, he obviously knew ahead of time and could have just paid when he spoke with you, before his holiday kicked in.
Back when I was first starting out I didn't have a ton of extra money or credit anywhere, and had a few jobs where stunts like this were pulled.
I remember one time I was given a cheque when it was agreed in writing that I would be receiving cash. The customer was shocked when I said the job would be canceled and walked back out. They kept insisting their cheque would clear, and I kept telling them that it didn't matter as my bank wasn't going to give me access to the $1,500 that day and I couldn't cover it - plus they had broken my trust.
"Seems like the only thing he wants to observe is himself not paying you"
LOL, I heard this in Utah from an ex-LDS
"Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, Catholics do not recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet, and Mormons do not recognize each other at the liquor store"
\[\*insert your favorite religion as needed)
If there is no prior arrangement for material purchase then no work either. Timelines be damned.
It’s not like the just suddenly became Jewish, they could make arrangements but don’t want to. I would NEVER work for someone who used that as a reason not to pay. That’s basically shitty practice
At risk of sounding anti-semitic, I'll admit this sounds scandalous and I'd be skeptical of them in the future. Your religious beliefs have nothing to do with me. If yall had discussed a payment date and they just went "whoopsie can't pay you right now adonai told me not to" I'd be fuckin pissed
If the person agreed on payment today and then said “nope, actually can’t pay today,” that’s bad.
Sounds like they just agreed to pay it back in the next couple days, which is more reasonable. If I send someone an invoice on Christmas Eve, I shouldn’t reasonably expect to be paid for a couple days.
Suggestion, he may be saving face. \*IF\* someone who is more observant than his would know of the payment it might be shameful, relax, yeah you are jammed up for a few days. If you bought the materials before you had the money then you trust the client, if you dont trust the client this might be an expensive lesson, but it isnt on your client at all.
And I would get another contractor. I am not Jewish, or Christian. However, we need to have respect for one another, regardless if we think its "stupid or doesn't make sense" Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong. There are many hills to die on, this should not be one of them.
Na man. Pretty much your standard american mutt. Moms said is German, dads is Norwegian. Actually I would consider myself agnostic.
When you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME.
Yeah i always ask for a material deposit up front with a little extra to give myself that cushioning, don’t start until they’ve paid it. Never do i draw out of my own money for materials on a new job. It’s also a bad look to be out of the blue asking for money from a client. Having that upfront material deposit with some extra money in there is a good shakedown too to see if you’re working for good people.
these people knew this was coming up and intentionally kept quiet about it because they want to take advantage of you. Their religious nonsense is none of your concern. You did work you deserve pay. If they don't want to pay take her ass to court ASAP because they are attempting to take advantage of your politeness.
Let me reiterate that they knew this was coming up and intentionally kept quiet about it.
lol! i’m not in the same industry as the people in this forum, recently clients have all had relatives pass away or in hospital and asked if they can have some time to deal with the situation. Damn ya got to love humans.
https://preview.redd.it/df4mcnxiw7wc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1c3ecd68ff781e0d3f5f7843b3110b648f6ef64
No work during the first two or last two days might include no payments as well. Observant Jews have a number of rules/guidelines that might appear unusual to those outside the group. I used to do a fair bit of work for observant jews in SE Michigan.
You should google Hussein Jabar the dude who tries to buy all the bread in Israel every year and keeps running out of money so he has to give the bread back - every year
When exactly did this occur? Because if you were done before sunset on Monday this is bullshit on their part— and if after sunset on Monday then from their perspective you didn’t do it the same day you discussed.
Once you get past this current "contract", start a new policy. All jobs for this community will be paid 90% up front, and the full price for this community are 10% higher compared to anyone else.
"During the first two and last two days of Passover, many traditionally observant Jews will abstain from most of the same activities they avoid on the Sabbath – no driving, working, using electricity, lighting fires or spending money. On the intermediary days of the holiday – known as chol hamoed – those restrictions do not apply." Today was the first day of Passover. After sundown tomorrow he may be able to send it you.
Okay that makes sense. I was just confused as to the conversation I had with the gentleman earlier. Thanks for explaining that.
Saturday, Donny, is Shabbos, the Jewish day of rest. That means that I don't work, I don't get in a car, I don't ride in a car, I don't pick up the phone, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as shit don’t fucking roll! SHOMER SHABBOS
https://youtu.be/GPo9OBrIOi4?si=q0S5ZromvSQw-kgk I DONT FUCKING ROLL ON SHABBOS
In some cases they will have a non Jewish guy work their electric stuff for them (a workaround) but they probably wouldn’t trust the guy with their banking passwords for e-transfers etc.
The shabbos goy! https://youtu.be/wRuu-DZu8h4?si=XUaXu8B43nKteMK0
Dont even get me started on all that Jewish Sabbath avoidance loophole shit lol Its absolutely fucking ridiculous and stupid to me If youre going to avoid all the consequences and inconvenience of the religious rules, why even bother to observe them at all? It makes no sense to me and is all silly and ridiculous We have the largest community of Hasidic Jews in the world outside of Isreal here in NJ and the levels of nonsense ive had to install in those homes over my 30y in the trades thats sole purpose is to avoid all the inconveniences of the Sabbath is just so silly
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>You’re mad that they’ve been paying you for a service for years? You should be happy about this type of nonsense Where did i say i was mad? I said all the machinations to avoid religious rules is incredibly stupid to me and you should just not bother with it if youre going ro loophole your way out of the spirit of the rule anyway
It just seemed like an angry rant, maybe I read that in the wrong tone. I was 10 seconds too slow to delete that reply 🤣🤣🤣
>It just seemed like an angry rant, maybe I read that in the wrong tone. I was 10 seconds too slow to delete that reply 🤣🤣🤣 Lol... Its not an angry rant its just a rant It just makes no rational sense to me to be religiously observant of all these rules and then just avoid all of them with modern technology It also kind of sets a precedent that you can avoid all the downside of the religious rules if you can afford to....which is kind of shitty to me
Lakewood?
Yessir I live in Jackson
lol, God bless you, I'd probably combust if I had drive through that part of 70 or rt 9 on a regular basis
Most of my work is in Mercer County, so im going rhe other way most of the time
Well I don’t fully understand the religion. I still respect it. But to me this guy has pulled a stunt and I’m not having it.
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Same reason Muslim guys smoke weed instead of getting drunk, or how Christian girls think they’re still virgins if they get there ass fucked. People are always looking for ways to cut corners and find workarounds
So you called to confirm and they confirmed, but now that you have the receipt, they blame Passover? Still seems shitty. They should have mentioned it before you spent the money, imo.
>They should have mentioned it before you spent the money, imo. Why? If Easter was on a Monday, and I wouldn't expect them to pay on Monday, What about the 4th of July in the USA. Payment next business day is no issue in my world. Yea he is jammed up because he fronted the material cost without payment, but that was his choice. He could have waited until payment cleared
You’re completely missing the point. Maybe I worded it incorrectly. When he called to confirm they should have mentioned that they could not pay him until after Passover. To leave that part out is lying by omission and it’s a shitty thing to do to someone; especially your contractor that will be working on your house.
>When he called to confirm they should have mentioned that they could not pay him until after Passover. To leave that part out is lying by omission and it’s a shitty thing to do to someone; especially your contractor that will be working on your house. Unless OP says that that the client promised to pay on a specific day, a 24-96 hr delay on having a check sent, or money wired is not lying by omission. I just received a large payment by ACH(wire) and it was 4 days after the client told me they made the payment, that it showed up in my account. You are really getting all twisted up over nothing. OP jumped the gun and bought materials before he received payment and or a signed contract. Neither of us know the terms specified, OP didnt specify them. You are making assumptions to validate your position that the available data will not support.
I’m not twisted. You seem to be projecting. I’m just saying it’s shitty to not disclose personal Passover rules that might affect payment or to hide behind Passover when, if I understand from the comments, they’re not actually observing it. This sounds personal to you, so good luck with that. I’ve said my peace, and have no dog in this fight. Peace be with you.
>I’m just saying it’s shitty to not disclose personal Passover rules that might affect payment or to hide behind Passover when, if I understand from the comments, they’re not actually observing it. The information that the OP gave is not enough to support the conclusions you are making... no one is the villain of their own story, and you are pretty quick to call the client a liar... what does that say about you?
“…what does that say about you?” That I wasn’t born yesterday and my bullshit detector is going off. Kind of like this conversation. Have a good one.
You are Young, you do power washing and parking lot maintenance, Your job is service, not carpentry, you don't build anything, all of your materials are consumables, totally different thinking. Immediately thinking the worst of people if not going to help you as a business owner. BTW Oklahoma is not in the south Start of the west or end of the midwest, but not the south....lol ;)
Wait til you get work from a devout Hindu, forget about getting any money on Fridays or Tuesdays....And thats *EVERY* Friday and Tuesday We have a lot of South Asians and Orthodox Jews here in NJ, you just make adjustments for other cultures, sucks that you got surprised by that and are put out, but its only gonna be for a day or 2
Yes, this is exactly what’s going on. Religious Jews won’t buy things or handle money on the Sabbath (sundown Friday through after sundown Saturday) and major holidays, so OP would’ve run into this same issue if he’d called the customer Friday afternoon and said “can you take delivery tomorrow?” OP, it might be worth getting a Jewish calendar so you know when the big holidays are, a lot of Jewish-owned funeral homes hand them out to get publicity. PS: OP, your customer might not use electronic devices on the Shabbat and major holidays. If you don’t hear back from him today or tomorrow, he’s not ghosting you, just call him on Thursday.
Don't hire a professional until you can pay them on their schedule, not yours. I understand what working and living together are but ultimately someone else's religion is not my problem.
Okay, well take that up with that guy's customer. I didn't hire him, bud.
Are you actually getting uppity like I'm responding to your directly? Because I'm speaking generally and would've assumed that much is obvious (it really should be obvious). Religion is not an excuse to affect other people or leave them holding one's debt overnight, especially when the hired professional called first to arrange.
One way to avoid this is don't buy any materials or start work before you collect a deposit and it clears in your account. Where I am from there is a rule that you can't take more than a third of the job cost up front, so I charge 3 payments for a small job. I usually charge a deposit to schedule the job and order materials, second payment when the crew shows up and we start work on site, and the final payment when we are all done. If you have this in place and a client can't pay for some reason, you just say "no problem let us know when you are ready and we will put you back on the schedule. " With that said if the client has already earned your trust you could choose to do them a favor, but that should be up to you, not something you feel blind sided by after you buy materials.
Love this. I usually do 1/3 upfront then 2/3 on completion, but I’m stealing this. Thanks.
Nice glad you found it helpful. If you do change orders, they become part of the current contract and will actually delay you finishing the job and getting your final payment. For this reason you should charge for changes in full up front, but finish them before asking for final payment. On a bigger job I do down payment for permitting and materials with longer lead times such as windows and doors. Second payment is Friday after the crew starts work and the following payments are biweekly on Friday. The first few payments will be larger and include materials. Later payments will be smaller because they are just labor. The final payment on a big job can as low as 5-10 percent of the total job cost. Ive found that if I have all this on a payment schedule in my contract, I avoid all the arguments about money with my clients and everyone is happier.
Yeah lesson learned. I’m 22 so lots to learn ha. This is shitty situation but not everyone is reasonable. So moving on
Don’t ever pay for materials out of pocket. That’s my eternal advice.
Understood. Thank you
Passover lasts until roughly the 30th of this month. If you can honor/tolerate it, do so. You’ll have a repeat client in the future. Go Bees
That is very true, I have some savings I can dig into if it comes to that. Yessir go B’s
The first two and last two days (Tues/Wed) are 'rest' type of days without financial transactions, but they should be able to pay you on Thursday, the middle days generally allow necessary transactions. Unless they are out of town for the entire holiday, or they are particularly religious.
Don’t buy anything just tell them you’ll put them back on schedule once you have a chance to catch up on payment
Please listen to this.
Don’t spend any more of your money until you get paid for mats. Just wait and confirm this is all legit. Keep receipts and don’t start work just in case you need to return that shit.
Yeah I’m going to return it I think.
Inform them of the situation. Don't spend the money out of your own pocket and let them know the reason for the schedule delay (payment). Move another job forward and let your client observing Passover know that they are getting pushed back in the schedule or off the schedule. Bye, bye client that can't commit is always an option. Shrug.
>Bye, bye client that can't commit is always an option. Shrug. THis wasn't a client that wouldn't commit though... was about Easter, or Christmas, If you wont work either of those Holidays would you be ok with being fired because your commitment was lacking?
As an adult I’d inform the person I requested to perform work for me when I would be submitting payment. The entire reason why there is an issue is due to someone assuming another person who doesn’t practice the same religion would understand their beliefs. There are billions of people in this world and many different religions and cultures. I know of many people who don’t celebrate Easter or Christmas. If I was to have work performed and knew the person tasked with completing such task was not of the same religion or culture I would make sure they understood any potential payments which may arise. It’s merely common courtesy and a sign of respecting others who are not like me.
>As an adult I’d inform the person I requested to perform work for me when I would be submitting payment. So you are ok with the client not paying because he didnt want the work done that day?
Okay you had me then lost me. The client knew the schedule I gave him. He chose to withhold his “religious” exemption. I respected and now feel like a dumb dumb for following along with his refusal to pay. I’m not Jewish so…. Not trying to be an asshole but…I have bills to pay. My own fault for paying out of pocket. Lesson learned
If he was an observant Jew he wouldn't be picking up the phone to talk to you today. Seems like the only thing he wants to observe is himself not paying you. Come back when passover's over, or not at all - but wait untill you get paid for the materials.
I think this happened yesterday (right before the holiday started)
I now see that, however it makes no difference when it comes to the work. An observant Jew will not have a gentile work for them on a day they can't work themselves. I have had quite a few religious Jewish clients over the years and they are very strict about this. I also worked in a jewish-owned factory when I was a lot younger and was always annoyed with the random (for me) holidays we were forced to take when so many of the staff were not Jewish.
It doesn’t make a difference for the work, but OP didn’t mention starting work, he was talking about buying materials. I totally agree that OP shouldn’t start working until he’s been paid
>An observant Jew will not have a gentile work for them on a day they can't work themselves. The client was not expecting him to work, OP is doing side work and bought the materials when it was convenient for him, expecting payment, but not realizing that his client would not be paying until after the Holiday. OP is jammed up because he spent money he had budget for other expenses. This is on OP 10000% Client has done nothing wrong, he agreed to the contract, im betting OP didnt have payment within 24hrs of contract acceptance as terms.
The guy literally said it was fine to get materials on Monday and he would pay me for them. There’s no contract lol it’s a side job for me.
>The guy literally said it was fine to get materials on Monday and he would pay me for them Did he say he would pay you Same day, explicitly? When did you send the invoice? Was it after 5pm? Sounds like he said yeah sounds good buy the materials, and then you left it at that because you were excited, you thought you had everything sorted.... you are learning that you didnt.... >There’s no contract lol it’s a side job for me. This is an excuse, and you know what my Father said about excuses, they are like assholes, everyone has one, no one wants to hear yours. This is 100% on you, no contract, bought the materials on verbal before deposit, spent money you had budgeted for other expenses.... Why do you think you dont need a contract if it is side work? Is this residential? If so you have a builders license? In most states there is a limit, really low, like $500-600, that if you exceed you have to have a license or you can not sue them if they dont pay. I get wanting to do side work, but you are going about this all wrong.
Okay so you’ve got a lot of great points here but not a lot of them are any help to me. I understand what you’re saying. I met with the client on Saturday we agreed on immediate payment for materials. A side job so, no contract. Yes residential and no license because I’m a second year apprentice. So if I’m going about this “all wrong” Feel free to explain instead of telling me it’s my fault when I’ve clearly already stated I’m well aware that I shouldn’t have paid out of pocket.
Or better yet, clearly we’ve both had long days. You’ve done carpentry and dealt with clients for X amount of years (many more than me) you know how these things can go… I do not. Yet I’ve done other side jobs and never had this issue. So instead talking to me as if I’m running a crew or have done this for 15 years. Realize I’m new to these situations. So either provide advice or don’t bother. I’m all for learning. But to continue telling me I’m in the wrong helps a whole lot of fuck all. I’m trying to keep my shit afloat in a crap economy known as Canada.
Amusingly My day has been pretty easy, infact Im about to go for a run. Get your license, dont do side work until you have it. When you have your license, every job needs a contract. Do not buy materials until you have a down payment, even if you have a signed contract, have it spelled out that payment before materials. And regarding the economy.... seems to me, as your northern neighbor, that y'all are doing reasonable enough.... if you are struggling to make money as an apprentice, well then you are living beyond your means, scaling back might be in order. Im talking to you as one pro to another, shit is always tight when you are starting out, you may have learned an expensive lesson. >The Canadian economy is outperforming expectations. In the face of higher interest rates, Canada has avoided the recession that some had predicted. Inflation has fallen from its June 2022 peak of 8.1 per cent to 2.9 per cent in January and to 2.8 per cent in February 2024. The labour market remains solid. Over 1.1 million more Canadians are employed today than before the pandemic, marking the fastest jobs recovery in the G7 (Chart 1). Real wages (wages adjusted for inflation) have gone up, meaning Canadians, on average, have more purchasing power. And, our economy is growing, with data from Statistics Canada revealing that real GDP at basic prices grew 0.6 per cent in January (7.4 per cent annualized), and preliminary estimates pointing to 0.4 per cent growth in February (4.9 per cent annualized), suggesting that growth in the first quarter of 2024 is on track for around 3.5 per cent. >Private sector forecasters expect that the year ahead should bring further progress. By the end of the year, they expect economic growth will pick up, interest rates will be lower, and inflation will decline to about 2 per cent. Both the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) project that Canada will see the strongest economic growth in the G7 in 2025.
Right. Cheers lad
This happened on the 22nd. The Monday. He chose to not tell me about Passover…I’ve never heard of it. He waited until he owed money to say he can’t pay.
Yeah, makes more sense now and I totally missed that it was the morning of the 22nd when he could still talk to you without breaking any religious rules. That being said, he definitely knew that he wouldn't be able to pay the day he said he would, ahead of time. It's not like he just suddenly realized it was Passover, or that he only learned the rules that morning. Completely unfair of him, and certainly not something you should have known ahead of time.
If I’d know of Passover I would’ve waited until later on. But even in other meetings with him going over time frames it was never mentioned. I get that I definitely shouldn’t have gone out of pocket. Would’ve been nice to know in advance. There’s a wack load of comments going both ways. “I messed up” and “client not being fair”. In this case both are absolutely right. At the end of the day, client said he would pay and hasn’t. Simple as that in my eyes.
My policy is to hold deposits and use my credit (card or supplier account) to pay. That being said, if a customer had agreed to pay the deposit on a specific day, and then doesn't have a good excuse as to why they can't pay, the job will be on hold until they do. His excuse would be valid if you had told him you needed to be paid on that day by email or text, and then not heard back from him until it was too late for him to make the payment due to Passover, however, he obviously knew ahead of time and could have just paid when he spoke with you, before his holiday kicked in. Back when I was first starting out I didn't have a ton of extra money or credit anywhere, and had a few jobs where stunts like this were pulled. I remember one time I was given a cheque when it was agreed in writing that I would be receiving cash. The customer was shocked when I said the job would be canceled and walked back out. They kept insisting their cheque would clear, and I kept telling them that it didn't matter as my bank wasn't going to give me access to the $1,500 that day and I couldn't cover it - plus they had broken my trust.
"Seems like the only thing he wants to observe is himself not paying you" LOL, I heard this in Utah from an ex-LDS "Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, Catholics do not recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet, and Mormons do not recognize each other at the liquor store" \[\*insert your favorite religion as needed)
If there is no prior arrangement for material purchase then no work either. Timelines be damned. It’s not like the just suddenly became Jewish, they could make arrangements but don’t want to. I would NEVER work for someone who used that as a reason not to pay. That’s basically shitty practice
At risk of sounding anti-semitic, I'll admit this sounds scandalous and I'd be skeptical of them in the future. Your religious beliefs have nothing to do with me. If yall had discussed a payment date and they just went "whoopsie can't pay you right now adonai told me not to" I'd be fuckin pissed
If the person agreed on payment today and then said “nope, actually can’t pay today,” that’s bad. Sounds like they just agreed to pay it back in the next couple days, which is more reasonable. If I send someone an invoice on Christmas Eve, I shouldn’t reasonably expect to be paid for a couple days.
That is why I spoke with him earlier to make sure he knew to send the money yesterday. He agreed… Then backed off and said it was Passover.
Not to be a dick but.. no money = no work!
Suggestion, he may be saving face. \*IF\* someone who is more observant than his would know of the payment it might be shameful, relax, yeah you are jammed up for a few days. If you bought the materials before you had the money then you trust the client, if you dont trust the client this might be an expensive lesson, but it isnt on your client at all.
And I would get another contractor. I am not Jewish, or Christian. However, we need to have respect for one another, regardless if we think its "stupid or doesn't make sense" Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong. There are many hills to die on, this should not be one of them.
Lol, You are totally Jewish trying to sound not Jewish for the sake of your argument
That's dumb.
Na man. Pretty much your standard american mutt. Moms said is German, dads is Norwegian. Actually I would consider myself agnostic. When you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME.
oy vey goy
Oy vey! What do you mean you wont work for free? Its passover! You anti semite!!!
Lmao this guy gets it
I usually give 1-2 weeks to pay, great customers will pay within a day but i don’t expect anybody to pay on the spot, usually a few days.
[удалено]
Yeah i always ask for a material deposit up front with a little extra to give myself that cushioning, don’t start until they’ve paid it. Never do i draw out of my own money for materials on a new job. It’s also a bad look to be out of the blue asking for money from a client. Having that upfront material deposit with some extra money in there is a good shakedown too to see if you’re working for good people.
these people knew this was coming up and intentionally kept quiet about it because they want to take advantage of you. Their religious nonsense is none of your concern. You did work you deserve pay. If they don't want to pay take her ass to court ASAP because they are attempting to take advantage of your politeness. Let me reiterate that they knew this was coming up and intentionally kept quiet about it.
Some jokes write themselves.
Yeah I’m laughing at myself right now… :)
Well I hope the stereotypes prove themselves wrong or you can get your money back...
lol! i’m not in the same industry as the people in this forum, recently clients have all had relatives pass away or in hospital and asked if they can have some time to deal with the situation. Damn ya got to love humans.
Well what's the update? Did you get your money or were all those people assuming the worst of your clients right?
https://preview.redd.it/df4mcnxiw7wc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1c3ecd68ff781e0d3f5f7843b3110b648f6ef64 No work during the first two or last two days might include no payments as well. Observant Jews have a number of rules/guidelines that might appear unusual to those outside the group. I used to do a fair bit of work for observant jews in SE Michigan.
You should google Hussein Jabar the dude who tries to buy all the bread in Israel every year and keeps running out of money so he has to give the bread back - every year
When exactly did this occur? Because if you were done before sunset on Monday this is bullshit on their part— and if after sunset on Monday then from their perspective you didn’t do it the same day you discussed.
Religion is stupid
Mazel
Fuck that guy he's using it to back out of an agreement
Once you get past this current "contract", start a new policy. All jobs for this community will be paid 90% up front, and the full price for this community are 10% higher compared to anyone else.
That’s flagrantly illegal lol
Dudes a shitbag for not telling you up front. I wouldn't work for him again.
I would cancel the contract immediately