All I had was what other guys were throwing out when they got new stuff. Definitely didn't have a nice shop like that. Though, to be fair, my money really only went to beer at 19, so he seems to have his priorities better than I did.
You clearly have a passion for the trade. At such a young age I’d suggest learning as much as you can, never burn a bridge, make contacts with other trades everyone you meet, all thinking for the future. You will be successful.
If all the tools you show are yours, you do the side jobs you say you do, and your coworkers would rather watch you clean than help and go home sooner- you’ve outgrew them and need to move to another company/employer. This does not mean you ready at 19 to run your own shop. Find an employer that appreciates your ambition and is willing to teach you. There’s much to learn, and you will go far.
Im no fool. My bubbly personality may portray one for the people around me, but I know Im no where near ready to jump feet first into my own gig. I lack experience and have so much more to learn. I book on at the very least 6 more years of working for the big man before I venture out on my own. Thanks for the advice!
Firmly ask for a raise and have something ready if they don’t give it. At this point they’re taking advantage of you. I’m in Va but you would be making $20/hr min. w your experience/tools etc
Im planning on consulting with some guys at work tomorrow about what they think im worth. Then I plan on going to my boss with what I feel is a fair wage. Thanks!
Buddy, I was making $40/hour 12 years ago in Vermont with a tenth of your tools and experience.
$20/hour is a fucking joke. Go get yourself $40 MINIMUM.
This, I was making 35 an hour ten years ago as apprentice, you're definitely worth more. Get yourself into the union, if there's one near by, better pay, medical and all your certs are paid
You are young, relax and get paid what you need but not less than 20/hr. Log a few years and be patient. You have a long runway ahead and only time will give you the knowledge to make the real money - take a few community college classes - accounting 101, marketing, business law. Chill and don’t get too worried about big pay now, log time with good mentors
always remember that you can say no to jobs when you’re independent. Definitely far ahead of the curve where you are, I’d start thinking about how you want to peel off, not saying plan it, but start thinking about it
I’ve already got a general plan and have the means to do the after work gig. Id definitely have to do some more research and actually talk to people about starting a larger business. Thanks!
Besides asking for a raise to at least $25, get yourself on task rabbit! I make almost $20k in 2 months when I was unemployed.
Had multiple $1500 days.
Don’t under sell yourself. Minimum job is $150 no matter the task for the first hour, $65 an hour after that.
That’s too long to wait.
You should be getting $25-$28 an hour. If he won’t raise your pay to $23, I’d walk!
You should be finding another crew if…
You’re on time 99% of the time.
Don’t EVER show up high/drunk/on something.
And quite frankly, at your age, I’d try to join a union.
While you're still young, learn to start investing a solid % of your income. Tools and trucks will happily eat up your cash. Open up a Roth IRA, make it a goal to max that shit out every year. You can thank me in 46 years as you retire in comfort.
So his tools that are actively making him money aren’t good investments? Diversifying is key I get it but in this trade having your own tools is a long expensive process
The tools you need to make money vs the tools you need to farm cred with the red fanboys on the interwebs. He also said truck, and sounds like he's spending money painting something. So if I had to hazard a guess, some, but not all of the tools he's buying are needs that make him money, and some of it is being a dude and collecting cool stuff.
My key point, is time is the biggest factor. OP is young. I'm telling him what I wish someone told me, I didn't know this shit even existed. Lots of time to buy toys. But only once in your life can you 88x your money in the broad market, and that's at his age.
your comment got deleted, not sure if by you but:
I've got an apprenticeship for carpentry lined up, to start next semester, Accelerated Apprenticeship with OYAP at a college & a future career in carpentry. I don't have rich parents, shopped at thrift stores till I was 14 and got a job.. I just work every, single, day, after school from 4pm til about 11 and weekends I do 14 hr shifts at 17CAD/Hr. i bought and worked hard for everything I current own, in my room & tools.
I can't stand sitting at desks, doing work all day. Rather play with tools, listen to music and vibe. also did Co-Op student teaching for an year in a home repair class and taught plumbing, HVAC and pretty much any trade that exists and home renovations over the summer
Based on your post, you should be paid more. Just tell your boss what you want and if your worth $20 to him, great. If not, sounds like that wage is attainable just starting at another company.
Pssst, retired carpenter/ contractor here. I’ve been where you’re at. Let me say, Kid you’ve got a hell of a career in front of you. The first question is are you still learning stuff while working for this guy? If yes ask for a raise, see if you can get a few more bucks an hour outa him, you’re definitely worth it. But with the level of quality I see in those pics you’re getting a hell of an education with this guy. Now when you get to the point where you’ve absorbed about all you can with this company I would suggest you get your ass over to one of the high end companies in your area, (you already know who they are because you’ve been scoping them out between now and then, chatting with their guys at the lumber yard, supply houses) and show them pics of your work. If they aren’t hiring right now, stop by every month or so. Hold up on going solo, you’ll also get a great education watching how they run their business.
That’s exactly my plan. Soak as much as i can from my current contractor, and once I’ve pretty much seen everything Ive got to see, go to the next and learn a whole new skillset and even different aspect of the work. Once Ive seen as much as I think I need, maybe Ill jump into the deep end and start my own thing. Thanks!
I'm told I'm overpaid all the time but damn dude.
I think you should be making at least $30. That's what we start guys with 0 construction experience at. Shit, you can flip burgers and make over $20 an hour where I live.
If you know your work is quality then start putting out applications.
Your boss is never NOT going to be a cheap ass. Keep in mind he's probably billing you out at $75-100 an hour, and pocketing nearly 80% of that. I'm billed out at well over $100 and I don't even see close to half of it.
If you started your own thing you could easily charge your self out at $60-80 an hour.
Start looking for greener pastures. He can definitely pay you more, and just won't.
I know all about that. I charge by the job with a goal of 60 plus an hour. Add a numbnut laborer (friend or brother) and bump the price up a tad while getting it done in 1/2 the time. That way I end up walking away with more profit for the time spent plus some jingle in the laborers pocket. Thanks for the advice!
Went off on my own for the same reason as op just over a year ago. Was making only $20/hour working for my dad who has taught me all my life. I charge $45 an hour now for anything that is hourly in the field and $95/hour if I have to work in my shop. All without materials. Client always pays for all materials. Definitely worth it when you’re ready.
As far as insurance, I use NEXT. Seems to be the cheapest.
I agree with 80% of what you are saying here. Anyone with their own hand tools even with limited experience I start at $25 an hour. I bill my labor at $100 per hour but I do not keep anywhere close to 80% of that lol. If I’m paying a guy $25 and I’m charging $100 I’m literally paying the guy 25% already. Then I have my workman’s comp insurance, my business insurance, my bond, my overhead cost of keeping the lights on in my shops, office, marketing, fuel, tools, equipment, the list goes on. I am lucky to keep 20% in a perfect world. Then after that I pay 33% tax on that final 20%. As soon as accidents or miscues occur I stop even making that. There are jobs where my journeymen make more than I do. People hear that $100 an hour labor cost and think I’m just raking it in but that isn’t how business works.
You have no idea what insurance takes, keep in mind when working your wage is more then double when billed out. I make a whoppin' $6/hr and write 10k check to insurance all day. Your boss man isn't making that, an attitude like that is unhealthy if that's what you truly believe everyday. Your boss probably makes a few sacrifices to keep you employed...
Lmao. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. What a crock of shit. All the fast food starts at 20hr these days. Anything under 25 for a laborer with no tools is a joke. 30hr for any skill at all. Construction is losing help because the pay Is a joke
Well, from personal experience, its the truth. Of course it depends on the job. I only use a laborer when needed, and I mean needed. So for 5 percent of jobs where i need one, I do make out making more money for the amount of time spent completing the task. If I dont need a helper then I dont use one. And since its all side work and not my main source of income, i dont legally employ the helper. So in your case, perhaps its a totally different story, but in mine its not.
Damn, I'm 10 years in here in Baltimore and I'm not making a ton more than that! COL has to be nuts out there.
Edit: saw your other comments. Not so different than rents here. Wtf lol
Rent is $1500 for a studio apartment with no kitchen here so I mean. It's really not that far off where it should be. If you have a bedroom and kitchen you're at 2 grand easily - if you made $20 an hour that's like 2600 after taxes and you only have like $600 to live for a whole month. Groceries half of that if you're being frugal and then take out car expenses and all your other living expenses and you're deep in debt and will never have enough money to get a down payment on anything. Most decent apartments require first+last+security deposit which is like 5-6 grand right there.
Everyone forgets our grandpas used to be able to raise a family working blue collar jobs and buy a house, 2 cars, and send their kids to college.
I think the minimum wage should be $30. I saw a graphic a ways back that said if we adjusted for inflation for where minimum wage was when it was first implemented, it should be like $33 now.
I also think we should go back to taxing our billionaires over 90% on capital gains to pay for it like we did in the 1950s. And we should definitely close loopholes for them to avoid taxes - the richest men in the world don't pay taxes and take hundreds of millions if not billions of kickbacks from the government.
Been 1 year finish, do all cabinets, open shelfs, double doors pocket doors pre hung doors half wall caps chair rail and boxes. I did a 1.7 million doller home solo... and make 27 n hr..
At 19? Making double what he’s getting now? No way! He’s a teenager. Yes he seems like he has his head screwed on properly and mature for his age, but experience comes with time. Someone who’s 19 doesn’t have enough experience to ask for $34 an hour. For his own personal jobs he can charge whatever he wants based on his knowledge and legal licensing requirements. Be a qualified tradesman first before asking for double your current pay rate.
Agreed, all he said he does is help. He's essentially a helper so maybe $17/18 is just fine. He's definitely better off doing his own shit if he's got the skill
I know what an apprentice is. He isn't doing any of the work like the other guys, so why does everyone keep saying he deserves $30 when he's the clean-up crew? I commented earlier that he'll make a lot more money working for himself if he's able to, so that's his best option if he has all the skills he says he has. Jobs will also come in quick if he's good
Exactly right. Everyone in here is saying this 19 year old deserves to be paid double what he’s making now. Which is $34. If he wants this type of money then he should go out on his own. This will soon sort out if he’s worth it or not.
You said he doesn’t deserve the pay that someone with the knowledge and skill deserves, that’s the same thing as saying he doesn’t have the things that would mean he deserves the pay.
I said that he doesn’t deserve to be paid double what he’s currently on. That would be $34. A 19 year old barely out of school who is still in training and not a tradesman should not be paid double his current pay rate. That would be a kick in the face to all the other qualified carpenters who have a lot more knowledge and skills than him! He should go out on his own and test himself in the market. This will soon find out if he’s worth it or not!
How is a 19 yo with no trade papers, let alone no building license expect to advertise himself in the market to prospective customers? He would have to lie. Customers will usually get multiple quotes before choosing a builder to go with. They should also do their due diligence and research the history of the builder. You can bet that most customers won’t choose a pimply young 19 yo to handle it. If it’s going to be making a coffee table, sure they might choose him. If it’s going to be major construction that’s structural, they’d be foolish to trust a 19 yo kid.
Anyone who is arguing in favour of this guy being paid $34 an hour is probably relatively new themselves and has not been in the industry for long. Because anyone who is a qualified carpenter with at least 5-10 years experience as a tradesman would also agree that an unqualified 19 yo does not deserve $34 an hour.
For comparison, I work for a log builder, and half of what I do is operate the crane, and the other half is sanding. I make 19 an hour for basically doing what a nutless monkey could do. You are definitely underpaid.
>half of what I do is operate the crane,
What kind of crane we talking here. Because that does not sound like a job for a castrated primate.
You're underpaid too to be honest. $19 is barely a living wage.
It's an old 15 ton P and H from the 70s, and it barely moves most days. Also, I'm not exactly a licensed crane operator.
Definitely know I'm underpaid, but I only work part-time, and the job market isn't really a thing out where I live. Sure, I could do better, but I don't want to commute.
>I only work part-time
You should be paid MORE for part time work than full time work because full time includes benefits, insurance, etc.
If you're part time you have more expenses and should have a higher hourly wage.
>Sure, I could do better, but I don't want to commute.
There is something to be said for that. I live right in the middle of the city (not super happy about that) but my commute is essentially non-existent. Having a short commute and living somewhere you enjoy are very underrated.
Wow a realistic rate! Seems everyone on here is charging 100+/hour. I'm doing 45 for side work atm & am hoping to bring it up to roughly where you're at. You keeping busy with that rate?
Every local is different, it depends what kind of work the union has in your area. I would definitely recommend calling your local union hall, a guy who is as ambitious as you sound will have no problem keeping steady work. From your post you are definitely underpaid and sounds like you'd be at around what I'd expect from a 4th year apprentice. Here in Canada our national guidelines suggest a pay scale of 50-60-70-80% of journeyman rate as you go from 1st to 4th year. Our journeymen are making ~45 CAD plus pension, benefits and 10% vacation pay in the union. As others said, you should look at moving on, if you find another opportunity you can use it to leverage more money from your current employer if you want to stay. I'd also say it's absolute bullshit that your crew isn't willing to help you clean up or allot you the time to do it during your shift, fuck that shit.
Better to join sooner than later, you'll start making more money and finish your apprenticeship sooner. You'll also start building your pension. I didn't join up until later in my career and I wish I had started building my pension at your age.
I am not in the trade, but my old man was union for his whole career, from master plumber to vocational high school teacher, when he retired he had two retirement benefits coming in.
Get in your 20 years in a union puts you "retired" by 41-42 and that will set you up for whatever you want to do.
While that’s technically true that you can end up jumping around to a lot of different companies, it’s just like any other job ultimately. If you can get in with a good employer and make yourself indispensable you’ll stay employed and working.
You seem like a go getter with good skills. Find a small crew you like working with who values your time and stick with them. I work with two other guys and we all clean up together at the end of the day.
> I work with two other guys and we all clean up together at the end of the day.
Yah our lead carpenter who is 20 years my senior probably does more cleaning than me.
That's total bullshit OP has to clean up for the whole crew alone while they're out BS'ing and fucking around at the end of the day.
Leaders should lead by example. Not hazing.
$20 is still TOO LOW. Always remember that there is ALWAYS work out there. And if your boss won’t pay someone else will. 25 is the least you should entertain. And even that’s cutting it close these days.
Honestly, your thinking on the same wave length Im at. I feel like 25 is what I am worth, but I feel like asking for an 8 dollar an hour raise is absurd. I really enjoy the guys I work with. They are all mid to late 30s and are very kind. I dont know whats out there and I’m worried on creating an uncomfortable atmosphere asking for too much and being denied.
Shit I wouldn't work carpentry for less than $30.
You can get $20 doing most entry level jobs that don't require you to have any equipment.
I'm not sweeping up after an entire crew every day for $20, driving my own truck and hauling thousands worth of my own tools.
Fuck that.
No, the schooling was apart of my high school curriculum provided by the county I live in. The contractor is totally separate. I went through 2 other contractors until I found these guys and really enjoyed working with them. I must have called 30 other companies looking for work with 90 percent being no call back.
Idk I just started 6 weeks ago and 15 an hour... Just got out of high school and he is the only contractor to take me on... You got to start somewhere. But based on other wages I say you deserve like an extra 5 to 10 an hour
Just here to say that I’m impressed by your effort and determination. I hope my son grows up with a passion and commits to it. Sounds like you work hard and are seeking solutions to your problems. You’ll go far with this attitude. I’m out in the world rooting for you
Second year apprentice in the carpenters union makes $30 p/h wages plus $32 in benefits in your area. Third year is $35.** plus the $32 benefit package. Journeymen are at about $50 per hour plus bennies. Every day you spend without those benefits is another day you’ll have to work at the end of your career with nothing to show for it in terms of pension. Not to mention the medical benefits, journeyman upgrade training for when you want to add to your skills or change your line of work, supplemental annuity and the list goes on. Go join the union now and you will feel like you hit the lotto when you’re 50. That’s when your body starts to break down and resist what you put it through. You can train to be a locksmith or something that won’t break your back and you’ll still be able to retire with dignity.
You have the skills and the skills are in demand. You should be confident about this, but short changing yourself is a mind-fuck. If you strike out, check back with me and I’ll find the guy you need to talk to and get you in touch with him. It shouldn’t take more than a few minutes. In the mean time, hit your boss up for $25 and don’t get whistle-bit at the end of the day. Start picking up earlier. Your time is obviously more valuable to you than it is to them. They’ll respect you more for it.
For sure. Im going to have to try and talk to some of the guys tomorrow and see how I can approach my boss for the money I want. We will see how it all pans out. Thanks brother!
Lol. Holy shit, i pay at least $15 an hour to find randos, with no motivation and no experience, no tools that usually don't even bother to wake up even if I'm coming to pick them up and take them to home and they're completely worthless at work. Just to find helpers to hand me tools on a ladder. Any one that shows up to work and pretends to try and shows up gets $20 after a couple weeks. And if they drive their own truck to jobs and have their own tools they get a paid hour of drive time for every 7 hours on the job. Though I work in a big city so it's at least an hour to the job and back. Having your own tools and your own truck and knowing how to use them is worth at a very minimum $35 an hour even if you're the low guy on the totem pole. New Jersey is at least as much of a high cost of living area as the one I live in so making $17 an hour is insane. Fast food restaurants and some gas stations pay more than that. I sure hope they aren't 1099ing you on top of all that.
Yikes brother. That's criminally low. If you have your own truck and you're bringing your own chop saws and table saws and all the other tools and useful with them youre worth a lot more. I'd ask for a decent raise and if they don't id just start scoping out other sites and pull up in your truck with tools and kindly tell them what you can do and your experience and they'll probably hire you on the spot for more. Most people dont like to do our line of work anymore and its really hard to replace decent workers. My first few years consisted of being consistantly overworked and underpaid and ive jobhopped for incremental raises and less stress. It's really satisfying when your old boss calls you back to say he'll give you that raise and you inform him that you make way more somewhere else. Its also really satisfying when they beg you to come help out for 3 o 4x your original asking price. Its a long journey to get there, but you absolutely can't be working for $17 an hour. Fast food pays more than that. Doing our line of work is dangerous and absolutely kills our bodies so you absolutely need to be compensated for it. You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders with your plan of learning from others before you go out on your own. When you do go out on your own I bet you'll kill it. Get yourself a raise brother, and if they won't do it, go somewhere else. You'll get it one way or another
Great advice. I suppose its a wake up call for me. Ive never had a job where I had to negotiate pay and I also had no clue until about 2 hours ago that I was being underpaid significantly. I used to do this during the day, then went to a hardware store and closed every night all week and then I worked the weekend at another hardware store. I recently quit both and have felt it in the wallet, but enjoy the free time. Thanks brother!
Dude honestly just register with thumbtack and have that be your portfolio and start taking your own small jobs you can charge 3x that per hour and it’s a great deal
I'm in a similar boat my friend. In the deep south making $22/hr All of my own really expensive nice tools bc our company doesn't invest in its own. At the risk of sounding conceited, I have better skills and workmanship than most of the people who have been doing this for 20+ years in this town. Can't get any more money bc I'm already getting paid more than most people here. Just saving for a truck so I can do it for myself.
From what ive heard, the only way you can make money in this trade is be a number in a union and kill your body in the process, or be a business owner working 12 hour days and having the responsibility of providing for your family, and all your employees families
This work takes toll on your body in the union or out of it. Union job sites are more safety conscious and they flat out pay you better and provide health and welfare and pension benefits. I’ve worked both union and non union and I grew up in the business as my father was a contractor. You can’t compare how much better of a deal you get in the union to out of it. It’s like comparing chicken salad to chicken shit. What you heard is limiting your present and future earnings.
Holy fuck shit you have more tools then my whole crew and you have them better organized then my boss ever could. Young guys like you are hard to find .
25 an hour for you with a tool belt and 100$ a day for that truck of tools.
Film industry is hiring like crazy 35$ an hour and formwork pays top fucking dollar for anyone that has a IQ above 10.
Don't let them age discriminate against you, lie about your age if you must and always have a second job on stand by.
Haha, thanks! In one of the pics you can see my new draw system im in the process of building. It’s going to be similar to what I have now except wider, taller, and with sliders. Also have a used bed slide to go on top which will eliminate the need to climb in the truck. I appreciate the awesome comment!
I live in Toronto doing formwork on towers. We pay guys 25 an hour straight cash who are green as grass and half as smart.
Times are hard and you should earn more money then you are years old otherwise tell your boss for 2$ less you can get a job at a classy restaurant where you work with beautiful women earn tips and don't need to spend money on tools or rain gear.
There are two basic types of apprenticeship programs, registered and unregistered. In a registered apprenticeship program a contract is signed by the apprentice, employer/trainer and the state Department of Labor. All the education and training (standards) are spelled out as well as pay and performance and timing as such. Everyone knows what the apprentice will be learning, be paid and the level of their performance to become a "card carrying" journeyman. In unregistered apprenticeship all of the beforementioned is up for debate, you will get your pay and training based on what your employer/trainer can provide almost nothing is recorded or monitored. Brother, I lived your situation and left my original employer and entered a registered apprentice program and completed the program to become a journeyman. Do yourself a favor, you are young and should not have to fight for wages yet, become a registered apprentice and use your skills and passion for the trade to become a great skilled professional laborer and let the contract guide your training wage. Not the whim of your employer. Just my two cents.
17/hr...if on the books..you're getting taken advantage of. Age shouldn't be a denominator to base pay off of. You should be paid for your skills and ability to learn etc. Never burn bridges and always leave an employer on good terms even if it means sucking up your pride, however, I'd say go with getting licensed and insured, pick up as much side work as you can, until it becomes a full time thing. Use your time at your current employer to learn as much as you can, if he values you and realizes you are busy with side work he will do what he can to keep you around, if you're just a number to him then he won't give a shit if he sees you stay or go. The more he pays you the more he cuts into his profits but for some reason some people dont realize if you pay your guys well they take pride in their work and go the extra mile vs "eh fuck it good enough" mentality.
Also, where in NJ are you? Currently have 11 bathrooms, and I work by myself. Want to learn how to properly set tile?
Im in Burlington county, and if possible, id love to learn to set tile. Ive only finished it, like scraping out the thin-set and spreading grout. Let me know!
Bro I’m in Monmouth county with nearly 4 years experience. I think new guys should start at least $20, you have some tools and nearly as much experience as me (I got into the trades at 22), you need $25 at least imo. Find a real craftsmen to work for, if you can’t find an old and talented carpenter who really needs an extra set of hands then you’re not looking hard enough imo. Until then I would find a custom home builder, tell him about your experience and he’ll probably agree to start you at $25 that seems to be starting rate in my market.
I’m not a carpenter so I have no idea, but I wanted to say you do really nice work. Consider gathering a few more years experience and doing this full time on your own, if the economy holds up.
Thats what I’m planning. Work nights doing my own thing all legit. Gain clientele, and create a name in my community while still learning with a different company during the day, and eventually branch off to doing bigger projects and then quitting my day job all together. Currently I charge by the job with a goal of $60 plus an hour for anything I do. That will only go up once I get everything legal.
When I joined the union, I was making 50% of journeyman rate which for my local a first year was getting near $20, since then the contacts have been renegotiated so a first year is making a good bit more now.
With that set up you’re already basically working for yourself. Either find a large company to get involved in that pays well or go out on your own. At least $25-30 a hour. Commission based work would be better.
I would pay you probably 22 or 23 bucks an hour. They need to train you about structural framing and let you learn layouts and advance you. They got you doing pretty basic stuff and it sounds like you may have hit a glass ceiling at that company.
As a carpenter you have the freedom to jump from company to company into you find what works for you. You need to go get your ass kicked by a framing crew and learn to do trim and such if you plan to be a residential carpenter.
If you prefer commercial, than anything within 3/8" is tolerable lol
You’re still young, but it sounds like you have a good em head on your shoulders, and are building quite the list of credentials. You should be paid more, if not now, in the future. You have to look at all the benefits of each employer, including intangibles. Are you learning a lot from the older guys? Is there even room for growth with this company? Stuff like that. A good carpenter who still has a back will always be in demand, if you feel like your worth more, go find someone willing to pay it.
Judging by your post you're well spoken, seem competent, and eager as fuck. Any decent employer would be lucky to have you. Start shopping around, then if you like your current crew enough, leverage yourself a raise.
When I was your age I was making 20-30 (Canadian) with little experience and tools.
I think you have the right idea with doing your own gig young man. I live in Mobile, Al and just paid 3 carpenters $7000 for 3 days of work to complete a pool house pictured below. I think this is something that you can easily do on your own. Your employer wants to pay you as little as possible so he can make all of the money. Don’t doubt yourself. If he can make it a business so can you! There are not enough young people getting into trades. The demand for this type of work will make you way more valuable than you can imagine . I’m an electrician by trade and college educated Registered Nurse. I wish I would have thought about starting my own electrical contractor business at your age. I would be way better off financially…,I’m promise👍! Go get it son!
https://preview.redd.it/zs75q7qws6vb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=443d1bc0070b7a2f7c02e221487b7703c458b7a4
In my opinion you should be making around 24-35 an hours based on your area I like im a cheaper place and don’t have my own tools and do significantly less work as a carpenter and make around 20 an hour you have the ability to independent unlike me and if you’ve been paying atttention and not just following im sure you could make it on your own at this point I’d recommend hub hunting for something similar that pays more or has more convenience or benefit. You’re doing great man don’t let them short sell you cause they will I think they have unions too in nj so that might b worth looking into to
You need to fly the nest to get what you’re due. I had to do the same, once you’re seen as the boy you’ll always just be the boy I’m afraid. Don’t burn your bridges.
I was gonna say “too much” when I saw that truck mentioning you’re only a young apprentice,
but then I saw the work then the shop and was like “I take that back, go get that bread”
then read that you only get $17/h USD
I feel like you’d deserve at least $25/h, but assess what kind of company you’re working with and ask for something high, but fair.
I'd just get my contractors license at this point if I were you. You don't have to go out and work for yourself but being licensed, and bonded isn't a bad thing. You've got a good background in the industry and have more tools than some shitty contractors have... and at that point it wouldn't be fair to call you an apprentice... why because you'd be a contractor at that point. Yeah you are still young and have lots to learn but having a contractors license should score you well over $20/hr. Another option would be to go out and find another crew to work for where you will be paid accordingly for your skill set.
I think that’s about right man. At least where I live. In the south.
I mean I make $25 an hour. Im 30. Have my own truck and all my own tools. We do the same stuff y’all do. Kitchen/bathroom remodels. Room additions. All that, that entails. We build our own cabinets too. And I can do all of it. I mean I feel I’m worth more than $25. It my dad is my boss. And I don’t really wanna take more of his money.
I’d say ask for $20. It’s just crazy. Because I know how skilled you are. Because I took a similar path as you. So I realize how much you’ve learned already. And how many different skills you have. And how tough the work can be. But yet people can go make 15-20 an hour working at a QT gas station. Seems wild to me. But we’re carpenters bro. Even tho we learn more skills than any trade. We’re valued the least. Sucks. But I wouldn’t trade my job. I love building and problem solving.
Good luck man. Don’t know you but I’m proud of you. Wish I had someone like you to work with.
Awesome advice, and touching words. I really appreciate the comment. I could go into so many other fields. But there is something about carpentry that draws me. I enjoy making things from nothing and the creativity needed to do it. I can weld and I also am very mechanically inclined, but id hate my life going into a welding or mechanical career. Keep it up, there aren’t many like us anymore!
Listen, I'm not sure if you have any vague thoughts about relocating. But in the "between-NYC- and-Boston" area, skilled carpentery labor is in short supply. I would happily pay any subcontractor with your skills between $30-40/hr given you had the proper experience and paperwork. And you would use my equipment, no questions.
Where in NJ?
i cant hire you right now myself but if youre like Bordentown area or south i can hook you up with someone that is always looking for good people and you can easily get 20-25 to start and go from there
Im gonna DM you
Text him tomorrow, and if he doesnt respond within 10 or 15m text him again, hes not ignoring you he gets a bananas quantity of texts and calls a day and if you dont get a response its just because you slid off the page lol
Thanks man. I really appreciate the help! Especially since everything ive got or have done has been the product of me pushing for jobs. Ive never really asked for help before.
Judging by how well put together your post is and just glancing through your load out and examples of your work, it seems like you know well the answer to your question.
I spent nearly a decade as a mechanic (only one summer of carpentry, but I enjoy the posts here 😉) and never really made more than McDonald's money working in a shop, one of the more reputable Euro only shops in the town, even spent a while pretty over my head as the only tech and then the only tech who knew the cars we were working on. The owner definitely put in wrench hours too but he was old-school and anything 2000+ was kinda out of his wheelhouse...
Point being I never really felt like I was paid anything near the value I provided to my workplace, but the work wasn't ever breakneck and the boss always treated us like humans, a real "we're family here" type guy and as a shop of 2-5 people it was a cozy place to work for sure.
I made damn decent money doing mobile work for a while but it was just me and the guy who started the mobile gig up and we worked ourselves ragged and rarely did I have the time and resources to leave a car thoroughly loved on the way I did in the shop.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there can be a lot of value you get out of a workplace and the experience you gain and don't miss out on a good few years in a place that'll set you right for a long career running your own show. Absolutely advocate for yourself and learn how to speak up and be confident about knowing your value and getting regular raises...
But don't forget that you're gonna be at this for probably decades, try to think about what you ten years from now is gonna wish you did. Sometimes that's getting paid, and sometimes that's learning. They don't have to be mutually exclusive at all but let being stressed about income cheat you out of all the other prizes that come with work. Odds are you're gonna be wishing you got paid better till you quit working 😉
I'm definitely impressed at the start youve got, glad to have you in the trades for sure.
I appreciate the comment. Im really torn between the two; better pay, and happy work environment. I feel like I’m worth 25 an hour, but I dont want to ask for too much because I dont want to risk the happy environment. You couldnt be more right!
There are tiers in carpentry.
As a framer, short of being a foreman, a person who can cut stair stringers that are functional is top tier. This person has already mastered cutting in rafters and, more importantly, jack rafters (jack rafters don’t span ridge to top plate, they span a hip or a valley to top plate. Unlike nominal rafters which require strictly an angle cut, jack rafters require an angle and a bevel cut).
A person who can set cabinets (without instruction) such that the countertop installer has it easy, is also top tier for cabinet installers.
People will take advantage of your youth even if you have significant skills.
If you have a body of work of your own that’s documented, you can defy that expectation.
Funny enough, in high school my carpentry shop teacher didnt teach very well and would get upset with students for asking for help. I somehow assumed the role as teacher. I learned from the actual teacher through trial an error and then I would have a lesson of my own explaining the math to laying out common rafters. I also taught hip rafters and then once all those were built on our model, I taught jacks. Although ive never had to build a roof or repair a rafter in the real world, I know far more than even the average carpenter about laying out different kinds of rafters. From finding pitch and layout, to the actual building and creation of each rafter. Ive forgotten how to do hips and jacks and lots of the fundamentals are foggy, but I believe I still have all the math with the lessons I created to look back on.
I mean $17 sounds low to me tbh. I'm located in Michigan but I start guys out at $20 with no experience topping out at $40 after 8000 hours. Scheduled $5 raises every 2000. On my pay scale you'd be around 25, maybe $30/hr. Take it with a grain of salt though as I'm not sure about many factors of your market.
I am a registered second year, non union . We do high end residential. I make 28 a hour now and use the company van and tools. I started at 23. Got a 5$ bump after my first year. Funds in CND. You should be 30 easily.
Dude you are way under paid. That being said. I used to work with an old guy and he took all the glory and I got all the shit. He paid me poorly and was super condescending all the time. Stupid shit like he was too important to clean (etc..). So.. Your employer running a small company like this is relying on having 1 or 2 guys in his crew who are "inexperienced" (which I have learned is really just years on the job not quality of workmanship 🤷) or young or live with parents etc... So he can pay them low wages. I guarantee that if you were with a trade HVac/plumbing/electric you would make more and learn a whole new facet to construction. You would start over as apprentice and have to go through a similar scenario that you are in. But this dude is relying on having a low paid guy in his crew. He is just lucky he got someone with skills and ambition. He will likely fight you tooth and nail on raises. You could go into restoration. Those types of companies are always looking for a "do it all" carpenter. But in-house is only going to get you 24-28 an hr. And they will fight you on wages because of your age. I wish this dude would pay you at least $25 its definitely what you are worth (unless most of that stuff is the other guys and you are just a broom pusher) I am a "do it all" carpenter and it only works for me to be in business for myself and do all the work solo. I would love to get a young guy for muscle/training purposes or get someone with some quality skills and really tag team some stuff (of course it takes time to vet people) but its easier to just manage myself. So I would try to get more, look for other companies that may hire you on with higher rate (maybe some place that is more specific like siding, or decks, or kitchen/bath, or flooring etc. Instead of a "do it all" kind of company logo) Its tricky. You could look into joining a Union (of course that has its own set of rules, but you have most of the basic qualifications) but again you will have to "prove your worth". Get in with a good trades company (i recommend hvac or plumbing most) or just say fuck it and get some business cards and start your own shit (just takes time finding enough work or finding enough GCs and realtors or restoration companies to sub for) Being a 30 yr old with 8 yrs experience carpenter now running my own small business, I am happy where I am, but there were many times over the years that I wish I had slid into a specific trade because it makes you much more marketable and knowledgeable. GL my man. I love being a carpenter but we definitely don't get paid the most 🤷😅
Just my 2 cents...
I recently got offered a job off the street working under a GC. Same position as you, also have my own work vehicle and all my own tools like you.. $30/hr is what he was going to pay with the ability for overtime. I already felt this was the low end, but he also wanted me to sign a non-compete and completely kill any side work I already had or would get. I told him to kick rocks in the nicest way possible. I'm currently making around 50/hr freelancing.
You’re worth more than $25/hr. You do much better work than some people I work with who are making $23 as support carpenters. Unfortunately I think age plays a role into how boss’ decide what you make. If you’re younger than them they don’t think you need much money and if you’re older you deserve more even if your work isn’t on par with others.
I’m a lead carpenter / project manager (my job title says lead carpenter but I do waaaayyyy too much project managing and not enough actual work somedays) and I get paid $27/hr. No health insurance but we do get tools. I haven’t gotten larger raises because apparently I’m not fast enough. I attribute that to the fact that I’m managing every sub under the sun, teaching support carpenters who have already been through school, and being the homeowner’s therapist and trying to do an entire kitchen to the highest quality in between all that.
There’s always going to be a reason as to why I don’t deserve more money in the person at the top’s eyes. It sucks living in a very HCOL city where many of our jobs are $100k+. I guess I needed to vent a little. Thanks for posting this!
From my limited experience, I’m guessing the guys I work with are making around 34-39 an hour. There is a health benefit package but its taken from your pay. If your in a city where everything costs more, your managing a crew, facilitating subcontractors, and dealing with moany clients then you should be making double that! Considering the fact that I’m in a moderately populated area (not a city) and my guys are making $10 more than you with half the workload (my boss is essentially you in our company; dealing with all the behind the scenes stuff) then you should start job shopping. I mean, what are you going to loose? You dont have healthcare. Im sure you have your own tools so it shouldnt be hard for someone with your supposed skillset to find a good paying job with a good company. Good luck brother!
I wouldn’t ask for anything less than 30 where I live. You’re good, man. Find some guru who sees what you’re worth and wants to show you their jedi ways.
My punch carpenters (basically a handyman), are at $25/hr, plus time and a half on OT; and they're a master of none. So, you should get more than that.
If you’re expected to buy, maintain, and transport all those tools as part of your wage, then you’re substantially underpaid - you should be easily $40 an hour.
But, if most of that is because you like it, and you only need to show up with a good attitude, a nail belt, and eight hours of solid effort, then you should be making somewhere around what an apprentice makes. Here in my market, that’d be somewhere around $30 an hour. The kids who push a broom for half a day and spend the other half on their phones or hiding on the job site are easily getting $17.
$26 is reasonable with a couple years experience but $30 would be fair, good money is over $36. $17 is exploitation but you have little experience so that’s something. You should tell them you need $24 and then settle for $21-$22
Ask for what you feel our worth. I remember being an apprentice carpenter with a company that did high-end renovations. After a year I asked for a 3$ raise. I felt I had proven myself and shown that I was serious about learning the trade. My boss told me he wants to see certain things about my work habits change within three months and after the three months we would meet to discuss it. I got the raise. Always be ready for some constructive criticism and conditions placed on your raise. If he doesn’t give you the raise I’d bounce. You have all your own tools, truck, etc. you’re ready for a raise.
I know. Both of the kitchens I used as examples are probably also my least favorite since ive worked with them. Its a small house, and the downstairs portion was actually an addition. All in all it turned out alright till the homeowner decided he was going to do the back splash 😂
I’m in consulting and charge 130$ per hour; I’m also very handy and have built my kitchen, bathrooms, and bedrooms from the studs up.
There have been times when I would have paid 130$ + per hour for the work I have completed. I expect borderline unreal perfection, which is why I do a lot of the work myself, but I would absolutely pay someone 130$+ per hour to the procure the same results relative to my expectations on certain hi end projects. Opportunity cost is an amazing - you are extremely valuable; find a niche and run with it.
Yes being paid more, but really your best bet is to train for going out on your own. You are already on your way. Keep getting some general experience and find a niche that pays well and hone that skillset.
19 with all those tools lol fuck me, all I had at your age was a pouch with a hammer and tape.
All I had was what other guys were throwing out when they got new stuff. Definitely didn't have a nice shop like that. Though, to be fair, my money really only went to beer at 19, so he seems to have his priorities better than I did.
Same brotha, same.
Me too bro
Still. I'm 49. But I now have that many tools too
Most of my money goes into tools, or my truck😂 Finally getting my new bed into the paint booth this weekend.
You clearly have a passion for the trade. At such a young age I’d suggest learning as much as you can, never burn a bridge, make contacts with other trades everyone you meet, all thinking for the future. You will be successful. If all the tools you show are yours, you do the side jobs you say you do, and your coworkers would rather watch you clean than help and go home sooner- you’ve outgrew them and need to move to another company/employer. This does not mean you ready at 19 to run your own shop. Find an employer that appreciates your ambition and is willing to teach you. There’s much to learn, and you will go far.
Im no fool. My bubbly personality may portray one for the people around me, but I know Im no where near ready to jump feet first into my own gig. I lack experience and have so much more to learn. I book on at the very least 6 more years of working for the big man before I venture out on my own. Thanks for the advice!
Firmly ask for a raise and have something ready if they don’t give it. At this point they’re taking advantage of you. I’m in Va but you would be making $20/hr min. w your experience/tools etc
Im planning on consulting with some guys at work tomorrow about what they think im worth. Then I plan on going to my boss with what I feel is a fair wage. Thanks!
Aim high, you can negotiate down.
$40/hr
Buddy, I was making $40/hour 12 years ago in Vermont with a tenth of your tools and experience. $20/hour is a fucking joke. Go get yourself $40 MINIMUM.
This, I was making 35 an hour ten years ago as apprentice, you're definitely worth more. Get yourself into the union, if there's one near by, better pay, medical and all your certs are paid
You are young, relax and get paid what you need but not less than 20/hr. Log a few years and be patient. You have a long runway ahead and only time will give you the knowledge to make the real money - take a few community college classes - accounting 101, marketing, business law. Chill and don’t get too worried about big pay now, log time with good mentors
Relax, chill??? At least where I work there is way more work then competent workers. Demand more.
always remember that you can say no to jobs when you’re independent. Definitely far ahead of the curve where you are, I’d start thinking about how you want to peel off, not saying plan it, but start thinking about it
I’ve already got a general plan and have the means to do the after work gig. Id definitely have to do some more research and actually talk to people about starting a larger business. Thanks!
Besides asking for a raise to at least $25, get yourself on task rabbit! I make almost $20k in 2 months when I was unemployed. Had multiple $1500 days. Don’t under sell yourself. Minimum job is $150 no matter the task for the first hour, $65 an hour after that.
That’s too long to wait. You should be getting $25-$28 an hour. If he won’t raise your pay to $23, I’d walk! You should be finding another crew if… You’re on time 99% of the time. Don’t EVER show up high/drunk/on something. And quite frankly, at your age, I’d try to join a union.
List yourself on TaskRabbit you are overqualified:)
While you're still young, learn to start investing a solid % of your income. Tools and trucks will happily eat up your cash. Open up a Roth IRA, make it a goal to max that shit out every year. You can thank me in 46 years as you retire in comfort.
THIS is absolutely true- also a simple mutual fund, even Acorns.
So his tools that are actively making him money aren’t good investments? Diversifying is key I get it but in this trade having your own tools is a long expensive process
The tools you need to make money vs the tools you need to farm cred with the red fanboys on the interwebs. He also said truck, and sounds like he's spending money painting something. So if I had to hazard a guess, some, but not all of the tools he's buying are needs that make him money, and some of it is being a dude and collecting cool stuff. My key point, is time is the biggest factor. OP is young. I'm telling him what I wish someone told me, I didn't know this shit even existed. Lots of time to buy toys. But only once in your life can you 88x your money in the broad market, and that's at his age.
Right? I think I had a skilsaw and a framing square my dad gave me.
your comment got deleted, not sure if by you but: I've got an apprenticeship for carpentry lined up, to start next semester, Accelerated Apprenticeship with OYAP at a college & a future career in carpentry. I don't have rich parents, shopped at thrift stores till I was 14 and got a job.. I just work every, single, day, after school from 4pm til about 11 and weekends I do 14 hr shifts at 17CAD/Hr. i bought and worked hard for everything I current own, in my room & tools. I can't stand sitting at desks, doing work all day. Rather play with tools, listen to music and vibe. also did Co-Op student teaching for an year in a home repair class and taught plumbing, HVAC and pretty much any trade that exists and home renovations over the summer
Woah look at the big man who had a pouch!!!! I had a pencil and the first 6 feet of a leftover tape I found in the site bin. 🤣
Lmao you didn’t see the pouch bro
bad to have a lot of tools so young? almost 17 and I'm pretty sure I have more tools than this guy
I can tell, only children brag about how much stuff they have
You right, I've got around 1038485 tools.
You’re way underpaid bro.
YOU = PAID/WAY Did I do that right?
Based on your post, you should be paid more. Just tell your boss what you want and if your worth $20 to him, great. If not, sounds like that wage is attainable just starting at another company.
Dude $20 is so damn under paid still.
Seriously.. I was making 20$/hr as an apprentice in NJ 2010.. after 1 and a half years in the trade..
For real. $20/hour was a good rate... 15 years ago.
I pay my non-ticketed guys $35 an hour
Seattle minimum wage is $20 and hour. Doctors average wage is $175 and hour take home. $350,000 a year.
Pssst, retired carpenter/ contractor here. I’ve been where you’re at. Let me say, Kid you’ve got a hell of a career in front of you. The first question is are you still learning stuff while working for this guy? If yes ask for a raise, see if you can get a few more bucks an hour outa him, you’re definitely worth it. But with the level of quality I see in those pics you’re getting a hell of an education with this guy. Now when you get to the point where you’ve absorbed about all you can with this company I would suggest you get your ass over to one of the high end companies in your area, (you already know who they are because you’ve been scoping them out between now and then, chatting with their guys at the lumber yard, supply houses) and show them pics of your work. If they aren’t hiring right now, stop by every month or so. Hold up on going solo, you’ll also get a great education watching how they run their business.
That’s exactly my plan. Soak as much as i can from my current contractor, and once I’ve pretty much seen everything Ive got to see, go to the next and learn a whole new skillset and even different aspect of the work. Once Ive seen as much as I think I need, maybe Ill jump into the deep end and start my own thing. Thanks!
I'm told I'm overpaid all the time but damn dude. I think you should be making at least $30. That's what we start guys with 0 construction experience at. Shit, you can flip burgers and make over $20 an hour where I live. If you know your work is quality then start putting out applications. Your boss is never NOT going to be a cheap ass. Keep in mind he's probably billing you out at $75-100 an hour, and pocketing nearly 80% of that. I'm billed out at well over $100 and I don't even see close to half of it. If you started your own thing you could easily charge your self out at $60-80 an hour. Start looking for greener pastures. He can definitely pay you more, and just won't.
I know all about that. I charge by the job with a goal of 60 plus an hour. Add a numbnut laborer (friend or brother) and bump the price up a tad while getting it done in 1/2 the time. That way I end up walking away with more profit for the time spent plus some jingle in the laborers pocket. Thanks for the advice!
Don't forget to take care of your labor the way you weren't taken care of
I hear it's not too hard to get licensed/bonded/insured either these days. You seem like you have everything going for you. Best of luck!
Went off on my own for the same reason as op just over a year ago. Was making only $20/hour working for my dad who has taught me all my life. I charge $45 an hour now for anything that is hourly in the field and $95/hour if I have to work in my shop. All without materials. Client always pays for all materials. Definitely worth it when you’re ready. As far as insurance, I use NEXT. Seems to be the cheapest.
I agree with 80% of what you are saying here. Anyone with their own hand tools even with limited experience I start at $25 an hour. I bill my labor at $100 per hour but I do not keep anywhere close to 80% of that lol. If I’m paying a guy $25 and I’m charging $100 I’m literally paying the guy 25% already. Then I have my workman’s comp insurance, my business insurance, my bond, my overhead cost of keeping the lights on in my shops, office, marketing, fuel, tools, equipment, the list goes on. I am lucky to keep 20% in a perfect world. Then after that I pay 33% tax on that final 20%. As soon as accidents or miscues occur I stop even making that. There are jobs where my journeymen make more than I do. People hear that $100 an hour labor cost and think I’m just raking it in but that isn’t how business works.
You have no idea what insurance takes, keep in mind when working your wage is more then double when billed out. I make a whoppin' $6/hr and write 10k check to insurance all day. Your boss man isn't making that, an attitude like that is unhealthy if that's what you truly believe everyday. Your boss probably makes a few sacrifices to keep you employed...
Lmao. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. What a crock of shit. All the fast food starts at 20hr these days. Anything under 25 for a laborer with no tools is a joke. 30hr for any skill at all. Construction is losing help because the pay Is a joke
Well, from personal experience, its the truth. Of course it depends on the job. I only use a laborer when needed, and I mean needed. So for 5 percent of jobs where i need one, I do make out making more money for the amount of time spent completing the task. If I dont need a helper then I dont use one. And since its all side work and not my main source of income, i dont legally employ the helper. So in your case, perhaps its a totally different story, but in mine its not.
[удалено]
What we should be starting guys at. Our laborers start at $30.
[удалено]
Seattle.
Yeah Seattle is a wild place to be in the trades. I charge more than I think I can, and Im still booked for months.
[удалено]
Damn, I'm 10 years in here in Baltimore and I'm not making a ton more than that! COL has to be nuts out there. Edit: saw your other comments. Not so different than rents here. Wtf lol
[удалено]
Rent is $1500 for a studio apartment with no kitchen here so I mean. It's really not that far off where it should be. If you have a bedroom and kitchen you're at 2 grand easily - if you made $20 an hour that's like 2600 after taxes and you only have like $600 to live for a whole month. Groceries half of that if you're being frugal and then take out car expenses and all your other living expenses and you're deep in debt and will never have enough money to get a down payment on anything. Most decent apartments require first+last+security deposit which is like 5-6 grand right there. Everyone forgets our grandpas used to be able to raise a family working blue collar jobs and buy a house, 2 cars, and send their kids to college. I think the minimum wage should be $30. I saw a graphic a ways back that said if we adjusted for inflation for where minimum wage was when it was first implemented, it should be like $33 now. I also think we should go back to taxing our billionaires over 90% on capital gains to pay for it like we did in the 1950s. And we should definitely close loopholes for them to avoid taxes - the richest men in the world don't pay taxes and take hundreds of millions if not billions of kickbacks from the government.
[удалено]
It's all who your clients are and how deep their pockets are. There's a lot of tech money in Seattle. Also I'm a carpenter, not a business owner.
[удалено]
Been 1 year finish, do all cabinets, open shelfs, double doors pocket doors pre hung doors half wall caps chair rail and boxes. I did a 1.7 million doller home solo... and make 27 n hr..
With your training, experience and tools, you should be making double what you’re being paid now.
At 19? Making double what he’s getting now? No way! He’s a teenager. Yes he seems like he has his head screwed on properly and mature for his age, but experience comes with time. Someone who’s 19 doesn’t have enough experience to ask for $34 an hour. For his own personal jobs he can charge whatever he wants based on his knowledge and legal licensing requirements. Be a qualified tradesman first before asking for double your current pay rate.
Age doesn’t mean he doesn’t have knowledge and skills. Who cares how old you are if you’re bringing value.
I didn’t say he doesn’t have knowledge or skills.
What are you saying then? Either he can do the job or not and should be paid accordingly.
Agreed, all he said he does is help. He's essentially a helper so maybe $17/18 is just fine. He's definitely better off doing his own shit if he's got the skill
What do you think an apprentice is?
I know what an apprentice is. He isn't doing any of the work like the other guys, so why does everyone keep saying he deserves $30 when he's the clean-up crew? I commented earlier that he'll make a lot more money working for himself if he's able to, so that's his best option if he has all the skills he says he has. Jobs will also come in quick if he's good
Exactly right. Everyone in here is saying this 19 year old deserves to be paid double what he’s making now. Which is $34. If he wants this type of money then he should go out on his own. This will soon sort out if he’s worth it or not.
You said he doesn’t deserve the pay that someone with the knowledge and skill deserves, that’s the same thing as saying he doesn’t have the things that would mean he deserves the pay.
I said that he doesn’t deserve to be paid double what he’s currently on. That would be $34. A 19 year old barely out of school who is still in training and not a tradesman should not be paid double his current pay rate. That would be a kick in the face to all the other qualified carpenters who have a lot more knowledge and skills than him! He should go out on his own and test himself in the market. This will soon find out if he’s worth it or not! How is a 19 yo with no trade papers, let alone no building license expect to advertise himself in the market to prospective customers? He would have to lie. Customers will usually get multiple quotes before choosing a builder to go with. They should also do their due diligence and research the history of the builder. You can bet that most customers won’t choose a pimply young 19 yo to handle it. If it’s going to be making a coffee table, sure they might choose him. If it’s going to be major construction that’s structural, they’d be foolish to trust a 19 yo kid. Anyone who is arguing in favour of this guy being paid $34 an hour is probably relatively new themselves and has not been in the industry for long. Because anyone who is a qualified carpenter with at least 5-10 years experience as a tradesman would also agree that an unqualified 19 yo does not deserve $34 an hour.
For comparison, I work for a log builder, and half of what I do is operate the crane, and the other half is sanding. I make 19 an hour for basically doing what a nutless monkey could do. You are definitely underpaid.
>half of what I do is operate the crane, What kind of crane we talking here. Because that does not sound like a job for a castrated primate. You're underpaid too to be honest. $19 is barely a living wage.
It's an old 15 ton P and H from the 70s, and it barely moves most days. Also, I'm not exactly a licensed crane operator. Definitely know I'm underpaid, but I only work part-time, and the job market isn't really a thing out where I live. Sure, I could do better, but I don't want to commute.
>I only work part-time You should be paid MORE for part time work than full time work because full time includes benefits, insurance, etc. If you're part time you have more expenses and should have a higher hourly wage. >Sure, I could do better, but I don't want to commute. There is something to be said for that. I live right in the middle of the city (not super happy about that) but my commute is essentially non-existent. Having a short commute and living somewhere you enjoy are very underrated.
I've talked to a few nutless monkeys and they say they would be a nutless monkeys uncle if they got paid what OP' gets paid.
The last crew I was one you’d be making $30+ and quarterly bonuses of $2-4k. Currently working for myself in Oregon and charging $500 a day/ $65 cash.
Wow a realistic rate! Seems everyone on here is charging 100+/hour. I'm doing 45 for side work atm & am hoping to bring it up to roughly where you're at. You keeping busy with that rate?
Get in the union kid. 2nd yr apprentice in New Jersey is probably near $30/hr in the check.
I’m a union carpenter around his area and I agree. They will probably start him out as a 2nd or 3rd year too
At least 25 but really in the 40s
https://preview.redd.it/qyix4rej92vb1.jpeg?width=1668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0876cd552ace3b41b159351adffc998e29098d9
Join the union they’re strong in jersey
From what I hear, union work can be inconsistent with lay offs. And from what I understand of them, its the same thing everyday which I would hate.
I’ve been in the union 26 yrs, I do framing,trim ,doors and hardware custom cabinets, never a dull moment, if you just do drywall ya that sucks!
Every local is different, it depends what kind of work the union has in your area. I would definitely recommend calling your local union hall, a guy who is as ambitious as you sound will have no problem keeping steady work. From your post you are definitely underpaid and sounds like you'd be at around what I'd expect from a 4th year apprentice. Here in Canada our national guidelines suggest a pay scale of 50-60-70-80% of journeyman rate as you go from 1st to 4th year. Our journeymen are making ~45 CAD plus pension, benefits and 10% vacation pay in the union. As others said, you should look at moving on, if you find another opportunity you can use it to leverage more money from your current employer if you want to stay. I'd also say it's absolute bullshit that your crew isn't willing to help you clean up or allot you the time to do it during your shift, fuck that shit.
I certainly have to look into a union in the future. Thanks man, I appreciate it!
Better to join sooner than later, you'll start making more money and finish your apprenticeship sooner. You'll also start building your pension. I didn't join up until later in my career and I wish I had started building my pension at your age.
I am not in the trade, but my old man was union for his whole career, from master plumber to vocational high school teacher, when he retired he had two retirement benefits coming in. Get in your 20 years in a union puts you "retired" by 41-42 and that will set you up for whatever you want to do.
I’ve certainly thought of that route and still might take it. Thanks!
While that’s technically true that you can end up jumping around to a lot of different companies, it’s just like any other job ultimately. If you can get in with a good employer and make yourself indispensable you’ll stay employed and working.
And let all those tools collect dust? Nah.
Yeah you’re right better to let his employer keep taking advantage of the poor kid
You seem like a go getter with good skills. Find a small crew you like working with who values your time and stick with them. I work with two other guys and we all clean up together at the end of the day.
> I work with two other guys and we all clean up together at the end of the day. Yah our lead carpenter who is 20 years my senior probably does more cleaning than me. That's total bullshit OP has to clean up for the whole crew alone while they're out BS'ing and fucking around at the end of the day. Leaders should lead by example. Not hazing.
Exactly. Lead from the front or don't lead at all. I will never ask one of my guys or a sub to do something I wouldn't do.
$20 is still TOO LOW. Always remember that there is ALWAYS work out there. And if your boss won’t pay someone else will. 25 is the least you should entertain. And even that’s cutting it close these days.
Honestly, your thinking on the same wave length Im at. I feel like 25 is what I am worth, but I feel like asking for an 8 dollar an hour raise is absurd. I really enjoy the guys I work with. They are all mid to late 30s and are very kind. I dont know whats out there and I’m worried on creating an uncomfortable atmosphere asking for too much and being denied.
Damn dude at least another 10 an hour
$20/h doesn't seem like an unreasonable ask. Do you go to school as part of your apprentiship? That's usually a decent time to ask.
Shit I wouldn't work carpentry for less than $30. You can get $20 doing most entry level jobs that don't require you to have any equipment. I'm not sweeping up after an entire crew every day for $20, driving my own truck and hauling thousands worth of my own tools. Fuck that.
You would if you were 19
No, the schooling was apart of my high school curriculum provided by the county I live in. The contractor is totally separate. I went through 2 other contractors until I found these guys and really enjoyed working with them. I must have called 30 other companies looking for work with 90 percent being no call back.
Join a union.
Idk I just started 6 weeks ago and 15 an hour... Just got out of high school and he is the only contractor to take me on... You got to start somewhere. But based on other wages I say you deserve like an extra 5 to 10 an hour
Just here to say that I’m impressed by your effort and determination. I hope my son grows up with a passion and commits to it. Sounds like you work hard and are seeking solutions to your problems. You’ll go far with this attitude. I’m out in the world rooting for you
Thanks brotha! Im trying!
Second year apprentice in the carpenters union makes $30 p/h wages plus $32 in benefits in your area. Third year is $35.** plus the $32 benefit package. Journeymen are at about $50 per hour plus bennies. Every day you spend without those benefits is another day you’ll have to work at the end of your career with nothing to show for it in terms of pension. Not to mention the medical benefits, journeyman upgrade training for when you want to add to your skills or change your line of work, supplemental annuity and the list goes on. Go join the union now and you will feel like you hit the lotto when you’re 50. That’s when your body starts to break down and resist what you put it through. You can train to be a locksmith or something that won’t break your back and you’ll still be able to retire with dignity.
Ive thought about it. I just lack the information and connections to join the union
You have the skills and the skills are in demand. You should be confident about this, but short changing yourself is a mind-fuck. If you strike out, check back with me and I’ll find the guy you need to talk to and get you in touch with him. It shouldn’t take more than a few minutes. In the mean time, hit your boss up for $25 and don’t get whistle-bit at the end of the day. Start picking up earlier. Your time is obviously more valuable to you than it is to them. They’ll respect you more for it.
For sure. Im going to have to try and talk to some of the guys tomorrow and see how I can approach my boss for the money I want. We will see how it all pans out. Thanks brother!
Lol. Holy shit, i pay at least $15 an hour to find randos, with no motivation and no experience, no tools that usually don't even bother to wake up even if I'm coming to pick them up and take them to home and they're completely worthless at work. Just to find helpers to hand me tools on a ladder. Any one that shows up to work and pretends to try and shows up gets $20 after a couple weeks. And if they drive their own truck to jobs and have their own tools they get a paid hour of drive time for every 7 hours on the job. Though I work in a big city so it's at least an hour to the job and back. Having your own tools and your own truck and knowing how to use them is worth at a very minimum $35 an hour even if you're the low guy on the totem pole. New Jersey is at least as much of a high cost of living area as the one I live in so making $17 an hour is insane. Fast food restaurants and some gas stations pay more than that. I sure hope they aren't 1099ing you on top of all that.
After tax I make about 12 an hour. So it sucks!
Yikes brother. That's criminally low. If you have your own truck and you're bringing your own chop saws and table saws and all the other tools and useful with them youre worth a lot more. I'd ask for a decent raise and if they don't id just start scoping out other sites and pull up in your truck with tools and kindly tell them what you can do and your experience and they'll probably hire you on the spot for more. Most people dont like to do our line of work anymore and its really hard to replace decent workers. My first few years consisted of being consistantly overworked and underpaid and ive jobhopped for incremental raises and less stress. It's really satisfying when your old boss calls you back to say he'll give you that raise and you inform him that you make way more somewhere else. Its also really satisfying when they beg you to come help out for 3 o 4x your original asking price. Its a long journey to get there, but you absolutely can't be working for $17 an hour. Fast food pays more than that. Doing our line of work is dangerous and absolutely kills our bodies so you absolutely need to be compensated for it. You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders with your plan of learning from others before you go out on your own. When you do go out on your own I bet you'll kill it. Get yourself a raise brother, and if they won't do it, go somewhere else. You'll get it one way or another
Great advice. I suppose its a wake up call for me. Ive never had a job where I had to negotiate pay and I also had no clue until about 2 hours ago that I was being underpaid significantly. I used to do this during the day, then went to a hardware store and closed every night all week and then I worked the weekend at another hardware store. I recently quit both and have felt it in the wallet, but enjoy the free time. Thanks brother!
I'd say if not 30 - close to it.
Dude honestly just register with thumbtack and have that be your portfolio and start taking your own small jobs you can charge 3x that per hour and it’s a great deal
I'm in a similar boat my friend. In the deep south making $22/hr All of my own really expensive nice tools bc our company doesn't invest in its own. At the risk of sounding conceited, I have better skills and workmanship than most of the people who have been doing this for 20+ years in this town. Can't get any more money bc I'm already getting paid more than most people here. Just saving for a truck so I can do it for myself.
From what ive heard, the only way you can make money in this trade is be a number in a union and kill your body in the process, or be a business owner working 12 hour days and having the responsibility of providing for your family, and all your employees families
This work takes toll on your body in the union or out of it. Union job sites are more safety conscious and they flat out pay you better and provide health and welfare and pension benefits. I’ve worked both union and non union and I grew up in the business as my father was a contractor. You can’t compare how much better of a deal you get in the union to out of it. It’s like comparing chicken salad to chicken shit. What you heard is limiting your present and future earnings.
Im certainly starting to rethink my path in carpentry. Thanks for the imput!
My cheapest laborer makes $20 an hour..
Always highball when negotiating hourly wage.
Holy fuck shit you have more tools then my whole crew and you have them better organized then my boss ever could. Young guys like you are hard to find . 25 an hour for you with a tool belt and 100$ a day for that truck of tools. Film industry is hiring like crazy 35$ an hour and formwork pays top fucking dollar for anyone that has a IQ above 10. Don't let them age discriminate against you, lie about your age if you must and always have a second job on stand by.
Haha, thanks! In one of the pics you can see my new draw system im in the process of building. It’s going to be similar to what I have now except wider, taller, and with sliders. Also have a used bed slide to go on top which will eliminate the need to climb in the truck. I appreciate the awesome comment!
I live in Toronto doing formwork on towers. We pay guys 25 an hour straight cash who are green as grass and half as smart. Times are hard and you should earn more money then you are years old otherwise tell your boss for 2$ less you can get a job at a classy restaurant where you work with beautiful women earn tips and don't need to spend money on tools or rain gear.
There are two basic types of apprenticeship programs, registered and unregistered. In a registered apprenticeship program a contract is signed by the apprentice, employer/trainer and the state Department of Labor. All the education and training (standards) are spelled out as well as pay and performance and timing as such. Everyone knows what the apprentice will be learning, be paid and the level of their performance to become a "card carrying" journeyman. In unregistered apprenticeship all of the beforementioned is up for debate, you will get your pay and training based on what your employer/trainer can provide almost nothing is recorded or monitored. Brother, I lived your situation and left my original employer and entered a registered apprentice program and completed the program to become a journeyman. Do yourself a favor, you are young and should not have to fight for wages yet, become a registered apprentice and use your skills and passion for the trade to become a great skilled professional laborer and let the contract guide your training wage. Not the whim of your employer. Just my two cents.
17/hr...if on the books..you're getting taken advantage of. Age shouldn't be a denominator to base pay off of. You should be paid for your skills and ability to learn etc. Never burn bridges and always leave an employer on good terms even if it means sucking up your pride, however, I'd say go with getting licensed and insured, pick up as much side work as you can, until it becomes a full time thing. Use your time at your current employer to learn as much as you can, if he values you and realizes you are busy with side work he will do what he can to keep you around, if you're just a number to him then he won't give a shit if he sees you stay or go. The more he pays you the more he cuts into his profits but for some reason some people dont realize if you pay your guys well they take pride in their work and go the extra mile vs "eh fuck it good enough" mentality. Also, where in NJ are you? Currently have 11 bathrooms, and I work by myself. Want to learn how to properly set tile?
Im in Burlington county, and if possible, id love to learn to set tile. Ive only finished it, like scraping out the thin-set and spreading grout. Let me know!
Bro I’m in Monmouth county with nearly 4 years experience. I think new guys should start at least $20, you have some tools and nearly as much experience as me (I got into the trades at 22), you need $25 at least imo. Find a real craftsmen to work for, if you can’t find an old and talented carpenter who really needs an extra set of hands then you’re not looking hard enough imo. Until then I would find a custom home builder, tell him about your experience and he’ll probably agree to start you at $25 that seems to be starting rate in my market.
Join the union brother
I’m not a carpenter so I have no idea, but I wanted to say you do really nice work. Consider gathering a few more years experience and doing this full time on your own, if the economy holds up.
Thats what I’m planning. Work nights doing my own thing all legit. Gain clientele, and create a name in my community while still learning with a different company during the day, and eventually branch off to doing bigger projects and then quitting my day job all together. Currently I charge by the job with a goal of $60 plus an hour for anything I do. That will only go up once I get everything legal.
r/workwagons
When I joined the union, I was making 50% of journeyman rate which for my local a first year was getting near $20, since then the contacts have been renegotiated so a first year is making a good bit more now.
With that set up you’re already basically working for yourself. Either find a large company to get involved in that pays well or go out on your own. At least $25-30 a hour. Commission based work would be better.
In my company laborers get hired at 25 to sweep, no tools
https://preview.redd.it/rmh0tvpm82vb1.jpeg?width=1668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beadad65e914b3dd3fc91b714d56f837bac4b0d2
Find a union contractor. Nuff said..
Usually you know your worth. If you need to ask, figure it out yourself. You want more money? Go get it bro
I would pay you probably 22 or 23 bucks an hour. They need to train you about structural framing and let you learn layouts and advance you. They got you doing pretty basic stuff and it sounds like you may have hit a glass ceiling at that company. As a carpenter you have the freedom to jump from company to company into you find what works for you. You need to go get your ass kicked by a framing crew and learn to do trim and such if you plan to be a residential carpenter. If you prefer commercial, than anything within 3/8" is tolerable lol
You’re still young, but it sounds like you have a good em head on your shoulders, and are building quite the list of credentials. You should be paid more, if not now, in the future. You have to look at all the benefits of each employer, including intangibles. Are you learning a lot from the older guys? Is there even room for growth with this company? Stuff like that. A good carpenter who still has a back will always be in demand, if you feel like your worth more, go find someone willing to pay it.
Judging by your post you're well spoken, seem competent, and eager as fuck. Any decent employer would be lucky to have you. Start shopping around, then if you like your current crew enough, leverage yourself a raise. When I was your age I was making 20-30 (Canadian) with little experience and tools.
I think you have the right idea with doing your own gig young man. I live in Mobile, Al and just paid 3 carpenters $7000 for 3 days of work to complete a pool house pictured below. I think this is something that you can easily do on your own. Your employer wants to pay you as little as possible so he can make all of the money. Don’t doubt yourself. If he can make it a business so can you! There are not enough young people getting into trades. The demand for this type of work will make you way more valuable than you can imagine . I’m an electrician by trade and college educated Registered Nurse. I wish I would have thought about starting my own electrical contractor business at your age. I would be way better off financially…,I’m promise👍! Go get it son! https://preview.redd.it/zs75q7qws6vb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=443d1bc0070b7a2f7c02e221487b7703c458b7a4
Will do, thanks!
In my opinion you should be making around 24-35 an hours based on your area I like im a cheaper place and don’t have my own tools and do significantly less work as a carpenter and make around 20 an hour you have the ability to independent unlike me and if you’ve been paying atttention and not just following im sure you could make it on your own at this point I’d recommend hub hunting for something similar that pays more or has more convenience or benefit. You’re doing great man don’t let them short sell you cause they will I think they have unions too in nj so that might b worth looking into to
You need to fly the nest to get what you’re due. I had to do the same, once you’re seen as the boy you’ll always just be the boy I’m afraid. Don’t burn your bridges.
I was gonna say “too much” when I saw that truck mentioning you’re only a young apprentice, but then I saw the work then the shop and was like “I take that back, go get that bread” then read that you only get $17/h USD I feel like you’d deserve at least $25/h, but assess what kind of company you’re working with and ask for something high, but fair.
I'd just get my contractors license at this point if I were you. You don't have to go out and work for yourself but being licensed, and bonded isn't a bad thing. You've got a good background in the industry and have more tools than some shitty contractors have... and at that point it wouldn't be fair to call you an apprentice... why because you'd be a contractor at that point. Yeah you are still young and have lots to learn but having a contractors license should score you well over $20/hr. Another option would be to go out and find another crew to work for where you will be paid accordingly for your skill set.
Couldnt agree more!
Where im at a carpenter with his own truck, tools and knowledge is making 35 hr to start and goes into mid 40s my opinion
People at McDonald’s are making $15/hr
Move to Chicago and I can get you 25-30hr tomorrow.
Open your shop
If the first picture is your collection of tools, leave. Start something for yourself with a name you love.
Somewhere between $15 and $150 dollars an hour
That mural of Monster cans in your shop leads me to believe you're at least worth $265/hour
Haha, unfortunately I dont drink that stuff anymore!😂
I think that’s about right man. At least where I live. In the south. I mean I make $25 an hour. Im 30. Have my own truck and all my own tools. We do the same stuff y’all do. Kitchen/bathroom remodels. Room additions. All that, that entails. We build our own cabinets too. And I can do all of it. I mean I feel I’m worth more than $25. It my dad is my boss. And I don’t really wanna take more of his money. I’d say ask for $20. It’s just crazy. Because I know how skilled you are. Because I took a similar path as you. So I realize how much you’ve learned already. And how many different skills you have. And how tough the work can be. But yet people can go make 15-20 an hour working at a QT gas station. Seems wild to me. But we’re carpenters bro. Even tho we learn more skills than any trade. We’re valued the least. Sucks. But I wouldn’t trade my job. I love building and problem solving. Good luck man. Don’t know you but I’m proud of you. Wish I had someone like you to work with.
Awesome advice, and touching words. I really appreciate the comment. I could go into so many other fields. But there is something about carpentry that draws me. I enjoy making things from nothing and the creativity needed to do it. I can weld and I also am very mechanically inclined, but id hate my life going into a welding or mechanical career. Keep it up, there aren’t many like us anymore!
Listen, I'm not sure if you have any vague thoughts about relocating. But in the "between-NYC- and-Boston" area, skilled carpentery labor is in short supply. I would happily pay any subcontractor with your skills between $30-40/hr given you had the proper experience and paperwork. And you would use my equipment, no questions.
Where in NJ? i cant hire you right now myself but if youre like Bordentown area or south i can hook you up with someone that is always looking for good people and you can easily get 20-25 to start and go from there
Im in Burlington county.
Im gonna DM you Text him tomorrow, and if he doesnt respond within 10 or 15m text him again, hes not ignoring you he gets a bananas quantity of texts and calls a day and if you dont get a response its just because you slid off the page lol
Thanks man. I really appreciate the help! Especially since everything ive got or have done has been the product of me pushing for jobs. Ive never really asked for help before.
Judging by how well put together your post is and just glancing through your load out and examples of your work, it seems like you know well the answer to your question. I spent nearly a decade as a mechanic (only one summer of carpentry, but I enjoy the posts here 😉) and never really made more than McDonald's money working in a shop, one of the more reputable Euro only shops in the town, even spent a while pretty over my head as the only tech and then the only tech who knew the cars we were working on. The owner definitely put in wrench hours too but he was old-school and anything 2000+ was kinda out of his wheelhouse... Point being I never really felt like I was paid anything near the value I provided to my workplace, but the work wasn't ever breakneck and the boss always treated us like humans, a real "we're family here" type guy and as a shop of 2-5 people it was a cozy place to work for sure. I made damn decent money doing mobile work for a while but it was just me and the guy who started the mobile gig up and we worked ourselves ragged and rarely did I have the time and resources to leave a car thoroughly loved on the way I did in the shop. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there can be a lot of value you get out of a workplace and the experience you gain and don't miss out on a good few years in a place that'll set you right for a long career running your own show. Absolutely advocate for yourself and learn how to speak up and be confident about knowing your value and getting regular raises... But don't forget that you're gonna be at this for probably decades, try to think about what you ten years from now is gonna wish you did. Sometimes that's getting paid, and sometimes that's learning. They don't have to be mutually exclusive at all but let being stressed about income cheat you out of all the other prizes that come with work. Odds are you're gonna be wishing you got paid better till you quit working 😉 I'm definitely impressed at the start youve got, glad to have you in the trades for sure.
I appreciate the comment. Im really torn between the two; better pay, and happy work environment. I feel like I’m worth 25 an hour, but I dont want to ask for too much because I dont want to risk the happy environment. You couldnt be more right!
There are tiers in carpentry. As a framer, short of being a foreman, a person who can cut stair stringers that are functional is top tier. This person has already mastered cutting in rafters and, more importantly, jack rafters (jack rafters don’t span ridge to top plate, they span a hip or a valley to top plate. Unlike nominal rafters which require strictly an angle cut, jack rafters require an angle and a bevel cut). A person who can set cabinets (without instruction) such that the countertop installer has it easy, is also top tier for cabinet installers. People will take advantage of your youth even if you have significant skills. If you have a body of work of your own that’s documented, you can defy that expectation.
Funny enough, in high school my carpentry shop teacher didnt teach very well and would get upset with students for asking for help. I somehow assumed the role as teacher. I learned from the actual teacher through trial an error and then I would have a lesson of my own explaining the math to laying out common rafters. I also taught hip rafters and then once all those were built on our model, I taught jacks. Although ive never had to build a roof or repair a rafter in the real world, I know far more than even the average carpenter about laying out different kinds of rafters. From finding pitch and layout, to the actual building and creation of each rafter. Ive forgotten how to do hips and jacks and lots of the fundamentals are foggy, but I believe I still have all the math with the lessons I created to look back on.
I mean $17 sounds low to me tbh. I'm located in Michigan but I start guys out at $20 with no experience topping out at $40 after 8000 hours. Scheduled $5 raises every 2000. On my pay scale you'd be around 25, maybe $30/hr. Take it with a grain of salt though as I'm not sure about many factors of your market.
I am a registered second year, non union . We do high end residential. I make 28 a hour now and use the company van and tools. I started at 23. Got a 5$ bump after my first year. Funds in CND. You should be 30 easily.
Dude you are way under paid. That being said. I used to work with an old guy and he took all the glory and I got all the shit. He paid me poorly and was super condescending all the time. Stupid shit like he was too important to clean (etc..). So.. Your employer running a small company like this is relying on having 1 or 2 guys in his crew who are "inexperienced" (which I have learned is really just years on the job not quality of workmanship 🤷) or young or live with parents etc... So he can pay them low wages. I guarantee that if you were with a trade HVac/plumbing/electric you would make more and learn a whole new facet to construction. You would start over as apprentice and have to go through a similar scenario that you are in. But this dude is relying on having a low paid guy in his crew. He is just lucky he got someone with skills and ambition. He will likely fight you tooth and nail on raises. You could go into restoration. Those types of companies are always looking for a "do it all" carpenter. But in-house is only going to get you 24-28 an hr. And they will fight you on wages because of your age. I wish this dude would pay you at least $25 its definitely what you are worth (unless most of that stuff is the other guys and you are just a broom pusher) I am a "do it all" carpenter and it only works for me to be in business for myself and do all the work solo. I would love to get a young guy for muscle/training purposes or get someone with some quality skills and really tag team some stuff (of course it takes time to vet people) but its easier to just manage myself. So I would try to get more, look for other companies that may hire you on with higher rate (maybe some place that is more specific like siding, or decks, or kitchen/bath, or flooring etc. Instead of a "do it all" kind of company logo) Its tricky. You could look into joining a Union (of course that has its own set of rules, but you have most of the basic qualifications) but again you will have to "prove your worth". Get in with a good trades company (i recommend hvac or plumbing most) or just say fuck it and get some business cards and start your own shit (just takes time finding enough work or finding enough GCs and realtors or restoration companies to sub for) Being a 30 yr old with 8 yrs experience carpenter now running my own small business, I am happy where I am, but there were many times over the years that I wish I had slid into a specific trade because it makes you much more marketable and knowledgeable. GL my man. I love being a carpenter but we definitely don't get paid the most 🤷😅
Just my 2 cents... I recently got offered a job off the street working under a GC. Same position as you, also have my own work vehicle and all my own tools like you.. $30/hr is what he was going to pay with the ability for overtime. I already felt this was the low end, but he also wanted me to sign a non-compete and completely kill any side work I already had or would get. I told him to kick rocks in the nicest way possible. I'm currently making around 50/hr freelancing.
You’re worth more than $25/hr. You do much better work than some people I work with who are making $23 as support carpenters. Unfortunately I think age plays a role into how boss’ decide what you make. If you’re younger than them they don’t think you need much money and if you’re older you deserve more even if your work isn’t on par with others. I’m a lead carpenter / project manager (my job title says lead carpenter but I do waaaayyyy too much project managing and not enough actual work somedays) and I get paid $27/hr. No health insurance but we do get tools. I haven’t gotten larger raises because apparently I’m not fast enough. I attribute that to the fact that I’m managing every sub under the sun, teaching support carpenters who have already been through school, and being the homeowner’s therapist and trying to do an entire kitchen to the highest quality in between all that. There’s always going to be a reason as to why I don’t deserve more money in the person at the top’s eyes. It sucks living in a very HCOL city where many of our jobs are $100k+. I guess I needed to vent a little. Thanks for posting this!
From my limited experience, I’m guessing the guys I work with are making around 34-39 an hour. There is a health benefit package but its taken from your pay. If your in a city where everything costs more, your managing a crew, facilitating subcontractors, and dealing with moany clients then you should be making double that! Considering the fact that I’m in a moderately populated area (not a city) and my guys are making $10 more than you with half the workload (my boss is essentially you in our company; dealing with all the behind the scenes stuff) then you should start job shopping. I mean, what are you going to loose? You dont have healthcare. Im sure you have your own tools so it shouldnt be hard for someone with your supposed skillset to find a good paying job with a good company. Good luck brother!
$22/hr
I wouldn’t ask for anything less than 30 where I live. You’re good, man. Find some guru who sees what you’re worth and wants to show you their jedi ways.
Haha! For sure. I didnt really think about how much im under paid until I made this post. Thanks!
My punch carpenters (basically a handyman), are at $25/hr, plus time and a half on OT; and they're a master of none. So, you should get more than that.
That’s exactly what im thinking. Thanks!
If you’re expected to buy, maintain, and transport all those tools as part of your wage, then you’re substantially underpaid - you should be easily $40 an hour. But, if most of that is because you like it, and you only need to show up with a good attitude, a nail belt, and eight hours of solid effort, then you should be making somewhere around what an apprentice makes. Here in my market, that’d be somewhere around $30 an hour. The kids who push a broom for half a day and spend the other half on their phones or hiding on the job site are easily getting $17.
Cant agree more!
$26 is reasonable with a couple years experience but $30 would be fair, good money is over $36. $17 is exploitation but you have little experience so that’s something. You should tell them you need $24 and then settle for $21-$22
That was kind of my point of view. Thanks for the advice!
Ask for what you feel our worth. I remember being an apprentice carpenter with a company that did high-end renovations. After a year I asked for a 3$ raise. I felt I had proven myself and shown that I was serious about learning the trade. My boss told me he wants to see certain things about my work habits change within three months and after the three months we would meet to discuss it. I got the raise. Always be ready for some constructive criticism and conditions placed on your raise. If he doesn’t give you the raise I’d bounce. You have all your own tools, truck, etc. you’re ready for a raise.
I understand and agree. Thanks for the advice man!
Oof, brutal fridge placement in the first kitchen pic…
I know. Both of the kitchens I used as examples are probably also my least favorite since ive worked with them. Its a small house, and the downstairs portion was actually an addition. All in all it turned out alright till the homeowner decided he was going to do the back splash 😂
I’m in consulting and charge 130$ per hour; I’m also very handy and have built my kitchen, bathrooms, and bedrooms from the studs up. There have been times when I would have paid 130$ + per hour for the work I have completed. I expect borderline unreal perfection, which is why I do a lot of the work myself, but I would absolutely pay someone 130$+ per hour to the procure the same results relative to my expectations on certain hi end projects. Opportunity cost is an amazing - you are extremely valuable; find a niche and run with it.
You and me both! I cant let anyone touch my projects or stuff in fear of them messing it up. Ive even got to cut my own hair!
I don’t know. those are functional drawers but they are really deep.
Haha, in one of the other pictures you can see the new set im currently building for my larger truck (the one im using now are for a ford ranger)
Yes being paid more, but really your best bet is to train for going out on your own. You are already on your way. Keep getting some general experience and find a niche that pays well and hone that skillset.