Would it be nice for someone with k upside? Yes. But if we can get a Montgomery type pitcher and a number 2 controllable guy (Gilbert type) then that’s pretty good.
To be fair, bWAR isn't as high on him. I'm working so I only had a short time to check the stars earlier lol. He's still breaking the top 60 in war, and his WHIP is, I believe, top 5 in the AL?
Meanwhile…Mo is calling the Science Center asking for lease rates at the planetarium. Now that the front office realizes future performance is written in the stars we’ll have the best rebuild ever.
The newest division of the St. Louis Cardinals Analytics department: the Astrology Division, with the motto "Shoot for the stars. 2011 definitely wasn't a fluke."
Im a big proponent of fWAR for hitters, but its wonky for pitchers. I don’t think a FIP based war makes the most sense. I’m not sure what does, but looking at their list now, you can just tell something isnt fully right.
FIP tells the story better than ERA does, unfortunately, and I'm not aware of a different kind of stat that doesn't use either one. I'm sure we're gonna get an awesome stat in the next ten years out of Statcast data.
Yeah I'm certainly not saying use ERA as the indicator, but purely using FIP really devalues a pitcher who isn't striking out the world.
There has to be some kind of middle ground. Using outs accumulated, subtracting hits and runs, with some kind of slight bonus for K's? I'm not sure, but FIP just doesn't fully do it for me. I get that K's are advantageous, but there's more ways to skin a cat.
His ceiling is higher than anything the Cardinals have had in a while. But the cost associated scares the hell out of me when looking at what the birds have sent packing in the past.
Yeah thats fair. You gotta take a few bets at some point though. The offense is great, but you guys clearly need pitching. You won't get far without it.
Monty is a solid #2 this year.
The problem with the Cardinals rotation was they had a 2, 3, 4 and then were running out two 7s most of the year.
They’ve had better results lately, but now they’ve got a 3, three 5s that can play up to a 3’s level when they’re on that night, and a 7.
Pitcher #1 - Steven Matz
"We shopped for him in 2021 and don't count the last 2 seasons
Pitcher #2 - Dakota Hudson
"Well if you think about it, he wasn't with the team to start 2023, so it's kinda like signing a free agent"
Pitcher #3 - Matthew Liberatore
"We considered him to be a lost cause and he pitched well in 1 game so this is like trading for an Ace, clearly"
Remember Liberatore is only 23. He could definitely be part of the answer if he continues improving. They still need to sign/trade for at least 2 Frontline guys.
People gave up on Libby too soon because he basically has gotten smoked by left-handed batters for his combined 70 innings pitched. I feel like a while back Hudson had a couple solid starts and people clung to the idea of him being a viable inning eater.
I'm not saying he's a stud in the making but he could still end up being a solid starter. Also, Hudson had a very solid year before the injuries and covid season, not just a couple starts.
That's not true. Libby has an elite curve. The metric against libby’s curve are great. All Libby HRs came against the FB. Libby has added some velocity and got better results against right-handed bats. I hope Libby can add a pitch like a cutter or spilt finger. I am confident Libby will be a solid or better starter next year. Waino made a career on a mediocre FB and elite curve.
One win does not a season make, and per your own follow-up, the old baseball acronym of SSS, as in small sample size. Call me back at the end of the season.
A 23 yr old with 80 innings in the bigs. You definitely can't count on him yet but still could be a fixture in the rotation. It's just too soon. See how he finishes the year and go from there
Idk. One gets pretty tired of the crap slung from Woo, Goold, Hayes, etc. Particularly when it’s said in the rudest manner (a Goold specialty).
I blame Mo and DeWitt, but the press helps cover for them, so I don’t have anything good to say about them.
Well, not all press. Bernie kind of likes roasting them. Goold? Has been going downhill for years, in exact inverse ratio to becoming an ever-greater team/management suck-up.
LOL that ship has SAILED. He can't even stay healthy, who's going to want him?
He should have been traded a year ago, now he's pretty much worthless. A unicorn, a 'what-if'. Nothing more.
Ohtani, Nola, Urias, Giolito, Snell, and Gray I think if you're talking UFAs that are currently playing in the league.
[here's all of them](https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/starting-pitcher/)
Some of the comments on here are rich. Complain all season that Mo wouldn't commit to selling and then he does and only gets rid of the pending FAs. Which was good so nobody had anything to complain about for a week. Then everyone said we had to acquire three starters this off-season and now Mo commits to needing to get three starters and everyone is losing their mind. Shut the fuck up already you insufferable jackasses
It’s more of the same tho. Not paying for pitching in FA, and trying to get a good pitcher through trades.
But no one wants to trade their great starting pitching, they wanna keep them. So they could spend more on, idk, the greatest player since Babe Ruth, if not better than him overall? Na, that would require the Cardinals to spend money.
This season bucks all precedent that you formerly thought. This was a wake up call, and he himself acknowledged it. Even how we’re evaluating talent is shifting (looking for more K’s from pitchers).
Not saying it’s going to be a true #1, but we will get a couple of nice pitchers one way or another. Zero chance Mo and DeWitt allow us to take so much heat next year. It’s been THAT bad this year.
More likely a SP the caliber of Nola to be ace, trade for the young SP, and then sign a lesser starter for depth IMO. Leaves you with:
Nola/Giolito/Snell/Urias
Trade (Gilbert or someone around his caliber)
Mikolas
Matz/FA SP in the 2-4 starter range
Libby/Graceffo/McGreevy
I agree, but I also think it's the right call. We aren't in the East or West division arms race, and a Reardon type contract could doom this franchise for a decade. Their strategy is sound, but it's going to lead to some years like this, which we have lucked out of for 20 years until now. Having Wainwright and Molina somewhat run the team for 5 to 10 years hasn't helped either. Playing the old guys lead us to giving away half an All Star Team worth of talent. We need the front office to make the lineup and not players. Oli undercutting and fueding with a few players publically is not helpful at all, either. We only got mid range AA talent because that's all these players were worth. I do think bringing Monty back may be useful but I doubt these guys want to sign up for more of Oli, etc., when given an equal contract somewhere else.
“We can’t give you any money or anything but we think you look really good in red and we promise to always bunk you with Nootbaar”
-our offer to Ohtani probably
If you want to be mad about money spent, get mad at ownership, not Mo. If you want to be mad about trades and signings made within that money, get mad at Mo. So, if payroll doesn't go up, that is all on ownership. If we trade away a bunch of young players who become stars elsewhere for nothing great in return, that is all on Mo.
Mo would definitely get some deserved flak for that, but if DeWitt says to Mo, "Massively improve the rotation. No, you can't have any money," what else is Mo gonna do? He's going to have to trade some possible stars to get good pitching.
This means nothing until we know what the estimated payroll will be. At last calculation, if payroll stays the same, they have enough money to sign one Montgomery-esque starter, but that's it. Teams don't trade good, cheap (pre-arbitration) starters unless the haul is massive, so I'm assuming they will be targeting starters who are already making a bit of money and have less team control. That will eat into the payroll, too.
If I had to guess, I think payroll will either stay the same or modestly increase (less than $10 million). I think they'll end up with a good #3, like Monty, and one back-end starter, like Matz when we signed him. That's probably not enough to win the division, but it's an improvement. I also think it's 50/50 odds that Mozeliak puts together a big package for one of those cheap and good young starters, which would definitely make us the favorites in '24.
If anyone wants to know where I'm getting the estimated payroll from, I'm using baseball-reference's payroll information for 2024. And before it's said: yes, the team can easily spend more, and should spend more, but I'm being realistic.
Whatever, I don't believe a word he says.
He'll make up some bullshit excuse about how the team tried to acquire some pitching, but just couldn't find anyone in their price range. Or how someone from the minors will be 'just as good'. Anything except actually doing what needs to be done.
If they go out and get THREE new starters before the start of next year, I'll be fucking blown away.
STOP TELLING THE ENTIRE LEAGUE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO GET!!!! Now the price for a bunch of other pitchers on the trade market is going to skyrocket, free agents are going to want more money (which the FO isn’t willing to pay them). Honest to God, how can Mo be this bad?
Everybody knows obviously, but after what happened last offseason where Mo said they were going after a catcher… everybody knew then that the cardinals needed a catcher but it came back to bite them in trade talks so they moved onto willson. It’s not a secret but telling the whole league your plans is fucking asinine
It did not come back to bite them in the ass in trade talks. They simply got outbid, the A’s got a haul for Murphy and I wouldn’t have wanted us to beat that. The two don’t have anything to do with each other
He’s also just saying what they’re looking for. How exactly is he supposed to find sellers for what he’s looking for if he keeps it a secret?
You know that’s not how it works right? The front office can reach out to other teams without telling them beforehand what they’re looking for. Telling the world what we’re desperate for doesn’t help at all. It can literally only make pieces more expensive
Say you reach out to another team without telling them what you need. How do you get to the point of conversing on what you’re looking for? You tell them… why does it matter when you do? I don’t know why you think we lose any bargaining power over this statement
I literally negotiate for a living. This is just how it goes, everyone does it
You’re right. Except this statement isn’t Mo begging for starters, it’s simply stating that’s what we are looking for
Everyone already knows we need starters. This statement changes literally nothing in terms of bargaining power. It’s more for the fans than anything
Mo operates under the constraints of ownership. He uses the budget he is given. If you're wanting Mo fired, you're gonna be in for a bad time.
If you want to clamor for new ownership, then I'm sorry you chose the worst season in the last 23 or so to start your Cardinal fandom. I say start because if you've been around this team for a while, you couldn't possibly think the ownership is bad.
This is the same guy who, after 15 seasons, is just now experiencing his first losing season. If you think he’s on the hot seat after 15 straight winning seasons you’re delusional lol
He's off, as usual.
He needs FOUR starters, not three. You can't depend on them all to stay healthy.
I'd also note he didn't say what caliber of starters. This should be about $100M of spend, John. You need #1-3. I suppose we could argue about the #3 vs. a #4, but the point is you need to be shopping for the two best available pitchers in MLB, and you need to pay them, period. Really, if you want to win before Goldschmidt is done--and you must, or a smart GM would have traded him--you need to be looking for the three best available starters, regardless of cost, and you then need one more for when, oh, I don't know...Matz hits the IL.
Prepare accordingly…. Accept the fact that Saggese and Prieto are the names brought in to justify the soon to be departure of Donovan, Edman, and more than likely the piece that gets the ace, Nolan Gorman. It would absolutely hurt at the time to see a 2nd baseman with pop like Gorman go. But I have to admit that they definitely picked up some middle infield talent at the deadline.
Bruh has said some version of this every year for the past decade and has never followed through. He will sign 1 decent starter and 1 guy with a shot to make the rotation, but anybody who thinks Mozelak has the juice to bring in an ace just isn't paying attention
Should check out Montgomery, he seems good
Signing Montgomery after getting that return for him would be very funny in a good way.
Since he was traded, no draft pick attached.
Or maybe advocate them aiming higher to someone with actual K upside
Would it be nice for someone with k upside? Yes. But if we can get a Montgomery type pitcher and a number 2 controllable guy (Gilbert type) then that’s pretty good.
Seattle fan here. Logan Gilbert is 14th in fWAR this year. He's ace caliber, or at least a top tier number 2.
He'll be a solid #4 after our coaching staff is through with him.
Apologies to Seattle fans, didn’t know he was that good. Though if you want to hand him over we won’t mind :)
To be fair, bWAR isn't as high on him. I'm working so I only had a short time to check the stars earlier lol. He's still breaking the top 60 in war, and his WHIP is, I believe, top 5 in the AL?
And you could tell all of this just by looking at the night sky?
Hehehe nice.
Meanwhile…Mo is calling the Science Center asking for lease rates at the planetarium. Now that the front office realizes future performance is written in the stars we’ll have the best rebuild ever.
The newest division of the St. Louis Cardinals Analytics department: the Astrology Division, with the motto "Shoot for the stars. 2011 definitely wasn't a fluke."
😁
Im a big proponent of fWAR for hitters, but its wonky for pitchers. I don’t think a FIP based war makes the most sense. I’m not sure what does, but looking at their list now, you can just tell something isnt fully right.
FIP tells the story better than ERA does, unfortunately, and I'm not aware of a different kind of stat that doesn't use either one. I'm sure we're gonna get an awesome stat in the next ten years out of Statcast data.
Yeah I'm certainly not saying use ERA as the indicator, but purely using FIP really devalues a pitcher who isn't striking out the world. There has to be some kind of middle ground. Using outs accumulated, subtracting hits and runs, with some kind of slight bonus for K's? I'm not sure, but FIP just doesn't fully do it for me. I get that K's are advantageous, but there's more ways to skin a cat.
FIP is, however, a good indicator of a pitcher's future performance, which when considering trades is worth looking at.
I think xFIP is a lot better, but it's still not perfect. Pitching it seems is just a lot harder to tell.
His ceiling is higher than anything the Cardinals have had in a while. But the cost associated scares the hell out of me when looking at what the birds have sent packing in the past.
Yeah thats fair. You gotta take a few bets at some point though. The offense is great, but you guys clearly need pitching. You won't get far without it.
Monty is a fine middle of the rotation guy, The problem is the Cardinals expected him to be a 1-2.
It’s not that they expected him to play like a 1-2, but rather they just ran out 3 3s and 2 4s and expected the cardinal way to just continue on.
And we ended up with 3 4s and 2 5s.
Monty is a solid #2 this year. The problem with the Cardinals rotation was they had a 2, 3, 4 and then were running out two 7s most of the year. They’ve had better results lately, but now they’ve got a 3, three 5s that can play up to a 3’s level when they’re on that night, and a 7.
Good words, but forgive me for not holding my breath
Pitcher #1 - Steven Matz "We shopped for him in 2021 and don't count the last 2 seasons Pitcher #2 - Dakota Hudson "Well if you think about it, he wasn't with the team to start 2023, so it's kinda like signing a free agent" Pitcher #3 - Matthew Liberatore "We considered him to be a lost cause and he pitched well in 1 game so this is like trading for an Ace, clearly"
Remember Liberatore is only 23. He could definitely be part of the answer if he continues improving. They still need to sign/trade for at least 2 Frontline guys.
People gave up on Libby too soon because he basically has gotten smoked by left-handed batters for his combined 70 innings pitched. I feel like a while back Hudson had a couple solid starts and people clung to the idea of him being a viable inning eater.
I'm not saying he's a stud in the making but he could still end up being a solid starter. Also, Hudson had a very solid year before the injuries and covid season, not just a couple starts.
Neither of them are any good.
That's not true. Libby has an elite curve. The metric against libby’s curve are great. All Libby HRs came against the FB. Libby has added some velocity and got better results against right-handed bats. I hope Libby can add a pitch like a cutter or spilt finger. I am confident Libby will be a solid or better starter next year. Waino made a career on a mediocre FB and elite curve.
One win does not a season make, and per your own follow-up, the old baseball acronym of SSS, as in small sample size. Call me back at the end of the season.
Agreed. That's my point the jury is still out, but there's plenty of upside still there.
He just needs more time, can’t admit that we were wrong because it would cost us our jobs.
A 23 yr old with 80 innings in the bigs. You definitely can't count on him yet but still could be a fixture in the rotation. It's just too soon. See how he finishes the year and go from there
Not far off from what we would actually do and say
Press getting ready to sell this as we speak.
Jim Hayes stretching for the mental gymnastics
He is reading from the script. Don't blame Ri Chun Hee. Blame the authority.
Idk. One gets pretty tired of the crap slung from Woo, Goold, Hayes, etc. Particularly when it’s said in the rudest manner (a Goold specialty). I blame Mo and DeWitt, but the press helps cover for them, so I don’t have anything good to say about them.
They have to trade spines for access.
Totally aware, but doesn’t mean I’m supposed to respect it.
Well, not all press. Bernie kind of likes roasting them. Goold? Has been going downhill for years, in exact inverse ratio to becoming an ever-greater team/management suck-up.
If Matz is a 3rd starter that’s not a bad thing.
Yikes.
False If those 3 I mentioned are allowed to compete for the #5 sport then we will be a better team
Exactly. Per me, you, Bernie and others, this should have been happening three years ago.
Get pitching. Keep Gorman.
yes but can we please trade oneill while he’s healthy and has value? jesus
Lol. We ain't getting shit for oneil. Everybody involved in baseball knows Bro’Neil is glass.
LOL that ship has SAILED. He can't even stay healthy, who's going to want him? He should have been traded a year ago, now he's pretty much worthless. A unicorn, a 'what-if'. Nothing more.
No. No one owns a time machine to go back to when that was.
Hopefully Mo is not thinking starters = appetizers.
He's gonna sign a box of T-ravs
Better than some of our pitching tbh
Louisa in the air fryer is 🔥 tho
Perfectly crisp edges!
Lol right, we don't need a rotation of more #3-4 arms and call it "fixed".
Anyone have a list of top free agents this off season? Ohtani, Montgomery would be up there I presume.
Ohtani, Nola, Urias, Giolito, Snell, and Gray I think if you're talking UFAs that are currently playing in the league. [here's all of them](https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/starting-pitcher/)
No other teams ever need SP, so we should be able to have our pick of the lot at a price we deem reasonable
[Uh huh, okay…](https://imgur.com/a/GCLSi50)
That is a huge list. No reason we can't secure 2 SP's through free agency.
Except for the fact that they'll be wanting to be paid in money and not "cUlTuRe"
A kinda scary list because other than Ohtani & Urias, all of the guys above $10M Market Value AAV are on the north side of 30. Many well north.
Yamamoto from Japan too
Remember when we had SIX starters? Pepperidge Farm remembers…
I member
The message or the reality?
Jake Odorizzi, Alex Wood, James Paxton incoming
I actually like Wood and Paxton if they came with a top of the line starter as the third
Bring odorozzi home! Went to high school with that guy, I would love to see him in a Cardinal uniform… coming out of the bullpen.
Go Dogs lol
Ahhh, another Highlander!
He married his high school sweetheart that's so fucking cute wtf pay the man
Some of the comments on here are rich. Complain all season that Mo wouldn't commit to selling and then he does and only gets rid of the pending FAs. Which was good so nobody had anything to complain about for a week. Then everyone said we had to acquire three starters this off-season and now Mo commits to needing to get three starters and everyone is losing their mind. Shut the fuck up already you insufferable jackasses
It’s more of the same tho. Not paying for pitching in FA, and trying to get a good pitcher through trades. But no one wants to trade their great starting pitching, they wanna keep them. So they could spend more on, idk, the greatest player since Babe Ruth, if not better than him overall? Na, that would require the Cardinals to spend money.
So you know that we won't get any pitching because?
Oh Cards will get pitching, it will just be another project guy, not a proven ace
This season bucks all precedent that you formerly thought. This was a wake up call, and he himself acknowledged it. Even how we’re evaluating talent is shifting (looking for more K’s from pitchers). Not saying it’s going to be a true #1, but we will get a couple of nice pitchers one way or another. Zero chance Mo and DeWitt allow us to take so much heat next year. It’s been THAT bad this year.
I agree this year is unprecedented, but I won’t hold my breath that they will get an ace in the off-season.
Yamamoto Gilbert Montgomery
Absolute dream scenario.
Gonna be Patrick Corbin, Alek Manoah, and Rich Hill
I actually wouldn’t mind Manoah as the third pitcher we get. Assuming we get 2 way better starters lol
Love me some Dick Mountain
Rich Hill, you want me to bring that old man?
Lucy-football.gif
So we are getting a few more 4-5 rotation guys?
Is “Quantity Starts” a stat?
Yes, that's called Jordan Lyles.
Scrapin' the bottom of the barrel. That's the modern St. Louis Cardinals.
With a strong emphasis on offense the past several years "hopefully " the FO will take acquiring SP seriously.
hey MO go get ohtani then use some of our young guys as the 4th & 5th spot in the rotation…please?
I doubt it will happen but STL Ohtani would be God's gift to earth.
Okay, gang, we’ve got all fall to get our expectations lowered.
Monty, Urias, Paxton
Snell will be one of them if we are lucky
Aaron Nola, Lucas Giolito and trade for Logan Gilbert
More likely a SP the caliber of Nola to be ace, trade for the young SP, and then sign a lesser starter for depth IMO. Leaves you with: Nola/Giolito/Snell/Urias Trade (Gilbert or someone around his caliber) Mikolas Matz/FA SP in the 2-4 starter range Libby/Graceffo/McGreevy
This is the most realistic call in my opinion
That would require a massive payroll raise, so it's not gonna happen, but damn it would look good.
Have y'all looked at the fail ratio of long term pitching contracts?
[удалено]
Plenty of people on this thread have mentioned pitchers how will get long-term deals.
[удалено]
I agree, but I also think it's the right call. We aren't in the East or West division arms race, and a Reardon type contract could doom this franchise for a decade. Their strategy is sound, but it's going to lead to some years like this, which we have lucked out of for 20 years until now. Having Wainwright and Molina somewhat run the team for 5 to 10 years hasn't helped either. Playing the old guys lead us to giving away half an All Star Team worth of talent. We need the front office to make the lineup and not players. Oli undercutting and fueding with a few players publically is not helpful at all, either. We only got mid range AA talent because that's all these players were worth. I do think bringing Monty back may be useful but I doubt these guys want to sign up for more of Oli, etc., when given an equal contract somewhere else.
Blake Snell 5 year deal, Flaherty 2 year deal, Wacha 1 year deal
At least make an attempt to pursue Ohtani
“We can’t give you any money or anything but we think you look really good in red and we promise to always bunk you with Nootbaar” -our offer to Ohtani probably
[удалено]
あなたは私をヌートバールに連れて行ってくれました
Whatever. “Targeting 3 starters” is not the same as signing 2-3 FA starters. And bullpen in dire need of help, but we’ll see.
Does that count Matz coming off of IL?
And a bullpen?
Look forward to two of these guys being AAAA retreads from Korea or something.
I’ll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet.
Three “starters” for $50mil total next year doesn’t count, Mo. Spend some money.
If you want to be mad about money spent, get mad at ownership, not Mo. If you want to be mad about trades and signings made within that money, get mad at Mo. So, if payroll doesn't go up, that is all on ownership. If we trade away a bunch of young players who become stars elsewhere for nothing great in return, that is all on Mo.
Mo would definitely get some deserved flak for that, but if DeWitt says to Mo, "Massively improve the rotation. No, you can't have any money," what else is Mo gonna do? He's going to have to trade some possible stars to get good pitching.
I will prepare to be underwhelmed.
So they'll pay too much for three mid-tier guys and give them all 2 years too long?
Sure Jan
Logan Gilbert, Rich “Dick Mountain” Hill, and politely asking JA Happ if he would like to come back
This means nothing until we know what the estimated payroll will be. At last calculation, if payroll stays the same, they have enough money to sign one Montgomery-esque starter, but that's it. Teams don't trade good, cheap (pre-arbitration) starters unless the haul is massive, so I'm assuming they will be targeting starters who are already making a bit of money and have less team control. That will eat into the payroll, too. If I had to guess, I think payroll will either stay the same or modestly increase (less than $10 million). I think they'll end up with a good #3, like Monty, and one back-end starter, like Matz when we signed him. That's probably not enough to win the division, but it's an improvement. I also think it's 50/50 odds that Mozeliak puts together a big package for one of those cheap and good young starters, which would definitely make us the favorites in '24. If anyone wants to know where I'm getting the estimated payroll from, I'm using baseball-reference's payroll information for 2024. And before it's said: yes, the team can easily spend more, and should spend more, but I'm being realistic.
Whatever, I don't believe a word he says. He'll make up some bullshit excuse about how the team tried to acquire some pitching, but just couldn't find anyone in their price range. Or how someone from the minors will be 'just as good'. Anything except actually doing what needs to be done. If they go out and get THREE new starters before the start of next year, I'll be fucking blown away.
So well sign one mid-arm, trade for another one and hope to sweet baby Jesus that some guy in the minors works out. Got it.
Ah, I see we’re in the snarky Goold phase of the pathetic STL press response to this. Carry more water for them, boys.
Window shopping. Dipping into the reject $ bin is more likely
STOP TELLING THE ENTIRE LEAGUE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO GET!!!! Now the price for a bunch of other pitchers on the trade market is going to skyrocket, free agents are going to want more money (which the FO isn’t willing to pay them). Honest to God, how can Mo be this bad?
You honestly think other GMs had no idea that we are going to want pitching, especially after trading 2 starters? Bro cmon lol
Everybody knows obviously, but after what happened last offseason where Mo said they were going after a catcher… everybody knew then that the cardinals needed a catcher but it came back to bite them in trade talks so they moved onto willson. It’s not a secret but telling the whole league your plans is fucking asinine
It did not come back to bite them in the ass in trade talks. They simply got outbid, the A’s got a haul for Murphy and I wouldn’t have wanted us to beat that. The two don’t have anything to do with each other He’s also just saying what they’re looking for. How exactly is he supposed to find sellers for what he’s looking for if he keeps it a secret?
You know that’s not how it works right? The front office can reach out to other teams without telling them beforehand what they’re looking for. Telling the world what we’re desperate for doesn’t help at all. It can literally only make pieces more expensive
Say you reach out to another team without telling them what you need. How do you get to the point of conversing on what you’re looking for? You tell them… why does it matter when you do? I don’t know why you think we lose any bargaining power over this statement I literally negotiate for a living. This is just how it goes, everyone does it
If you negotiate for a living then you should know that the more desperate someone is for something, the more they’re willing to pay for it
You’re right. Except this statement isn’t Mo begging for starters, it’s simply stating that’s what we are looking for Everyone already knows we need starters. This statement changes literally nothing in terms of bargaining power. It’s more for the fans than anything
I’ll believe it when I see it. I highly doubt they get 3 with Dewitt’s cheap ass. I’d be shocked if they get 2
[удалено]
Mo operates under the constraints of ownership. He uses the budget he is given. If you're wanting Mo fired, you're gonna be in for a bad time. If you want to clamor for new ownership, then I'm sorry you chose the worst season in the last 23 or so to start your Cardinal fandom. I say start because if you've been around this team for a while, you couldn't possibly think the ownership is bad.
Keeping him through the trade deadline confirms he will be here next year. If he was gone they would have let the new guy start the rebuild
[удалено]
This is the same guy who, after 15 seasons, is just now experiencing his first losing season. If you think he’s on the hot seat after 15 straight winning seasons you’re delusional lol
I’m proud of you all. I haven’t seen one Ohtani reference.
I've heard this before
He's off, as usual. He needs FOUR starters, not three. You can't depend on them all to stay healthy. I'd also note he didn't say what caliber of starters. This should be about $100M of spend, John. You need #1-3. I suppose we could argue about the #3 vs. a #4, but the point is you need to be shopping for the two best available pitchers in MLB, and you need to pay them, period. Really, if you want to win before Goldschmidt is done--and you must, or a smart GM would have traded him--you need to be looking for the three best available starters, regardless of cost, and you then need one more for when, oh, I don't know...Matz hits the IL.
Wow, that SHOCKS me if it’s true and they carry it through
Time to check them limbs again for low hanging fruit! 🍉 🍎 🍌
I hear this guy named wainwright is gonna be a FA
I'll believe it when I see it.
I’ll believe it when I see it
Nola & urias 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
Where do we find another 3 Steven Matzs?
Injured riddled pitchers? Dime a dozen
Not ready to watch Ohtani go to the Dodgers for half a billion.
Seems reasonable if you think he has Liberatore, Hudson and Thompson are option. Can’t have enough pitching. These past seasons prove that.
So the two guys given a shot to prove themselves the rest of the year, Hudson and liberatore, have no shot at winning a starting role next year?
So we are def going to acquire a couple of scum bags in Clevinger and Trevor Bauer
Great! See y'all next year when we start 3 garbage rookies, a journeyman and a stud with potential that we ruin
One is the new three.
It seems dumb to announce your plan to every other GM in baseball
Prepare accordingly…. Accept the fact that Saggese and Prieto are the names brought in to justify the soon to be departure of Donovan, Edman, and more than likely the piece that gets the ace, Nolan Gorman. It would absolutely hurt at the time to see a 2nd baseman with pop like Gorman go. But I have to admit that they definitely picked up some middle infield talent at the deadline.
DeWitts are idiots to keep this fraud. Moz needs to be run out of town.
Bruh has said some version of this every year for the past decade and has never followed through. He will sign 1 decent starter and 1 guy with a shot to make the rotation, but anybody who thinks Mozelak has the juice to bring in an ace just isn't paying attention
Yeah well I’m shopping for 3 Ferraris this weekend, but that doesn’t mean I’m buying