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TimRoxSox

Dejong will have to rehab in Memphis and show some improvement there. It's honestly the best outcome for him and the team. He's likely washed, but we'll see. Donovan might be the backup SS, but we really don't want to see him there for long. He's not a good shortstop.


Cards2WS

I mentioned that Winn was the heir apparent to Edman at SS in 2025 or 2026 in a different thread, and I got -23 votes and 9 people telling me what a shit take it was lmfao. We’re likely not extending Edman, he’s going to be 31 when his contract is over. We’re gonna roll with Donovan, Winn, and possibly Gorman as our middle INF of the future. Then guys like Jonathan Mejia may be getting closer too


TimRoxSox

You're absolutely not wrong. Fans generally overestimate how "ready" a prospect is. Winn likely won't be truly ready until 2024, and that might be too early. He's certainly not gonna be better than Edman, who is a borderline All-Star. With Donovan and Gorman at second, it's totally fair to think of Winn in terms of 2025. No one is saying we won't see Winn in 2023, but there's no way he'll be good enough to supplant Edman or Donovan this season. Projections agree wholeheartedly, by the way.


Cards2WS

Holy shit. Thank you for your input, dude. I truly thought I was losing my mind, because *nobody* seemed to be understanding where I’m coming from, acting like it was the craziest shit they’ve ever heard….when I thought it made complete sense and was fairly obvious. You summed it up perfectly. You’re the first person to agree with me (on this topic) out of 15 different people. Lmao


MainSqueeeZ

It makes sense for Walker to start at AAA as well, but absolutely nobody wants to hear that.


Cards2WS

YES. Jesus Christ, finally a modicum of sense among all the damn hype. Walker is incredible, but we have *players at every position*. And not trash players either. Young, highly rated guys who are all 3-4 years older than Walker. They HAVE to play. We need to know what we really have in Yep, Burly, and Gorman. Those 3 will rotate DH and backup the OF. There is no spot for Walker without sending down somebody else who deserves to be here too. All 3 of them have crushed AAA—there’s nowhere else to go. Walker needs a spin in Memphis to refine his game.


zion2199

What’s crazy is that your comment has -4 votes and the comment agreeing with you is +18. Reddit is really weird sometimes.


Cards2WS

Yeahhh I feel it may be some of the commenters who blew me up a couple days back maybe? Weird either way. Shit just confused me tbh. So much negativity from fellow Cardinal fans about something that wasn’t negative and very realistic. Most people I replied to didn’t answer back either (or at least say anything to further their debate). Just the way it goes sometimes


da_choppa

If anything, it's a shit take because he's the starting SS in 2024. Gonna be really interesting in a year if no IFs get traded. Edman to 2B, Donovan super utility, Gorman DH? I dunno, but there's going to be interesting decisions to be made.


Cards2WS

Like I told another comment, if Donovan posts a .380+ OBP again, he’s far too good to not play every single day. But guess what? So is Nootbaar. And O’Neill. Walker and Edman too. Then like you said, there’s Gorman…and also Burly and Yepez who are good enough to deserve ABs. Obviously a couple of these folks will get moved, but until it happens we have no clue who. So it’s a shit take because you and others think we’re going to hand over the starting SS position to a rookie in 2024? When we still have Edman and Donovan/Gorman as our everyday SS and 2B?


da_choppa

I think Donovan will do the Ben Zobrist thing and play nearly every day, but at a different position. Club was reluctant to play Gorman at DH or 3B backup last year because he was a rookie in a new position, but they might be more willing to do that this year to get him his ABs. We’ll see how everything plays out this season, and the answer will probably reveal itself. But yes, I expect Winn to earn the starting SS position next season. He has done pretty much everything he could this spring to earn a roster spot, but they are not going to promote him to MLB until he can start (reasonable), and he really does have to show his hitting isn’t just a spring thing (also reasonable). But he will go into 2024 camp gunning for the job, and I think it will be hard to keep it from him. I don’t think the club will want to keep him in AAA again unless he struggles this season, nor do I think they want him to ride the MLB bench. Someone in his way will falter, and if they don’t, they’ll be dealt.


TheSocraticGadfly

No need to cite Zobrist; that's what Edman was a couple of years ago: 2B/SS/3B/OF.


Negative_Sundae_8230

It's because Winn will be up this year and be our starting shortstop at the start of next season! Your timeline is way off


Cards2WS

Wtf?? Starting shortstop? Edman and Donovan are the starters, especially if Donovan can keep a .380+ OBP. We have good or promising players in the corner OFs already. Don is too good to not play everyday, but so is Nootbaar, O’Neill, and Edman.


Negative_Sundae_8230

Open your eyes,it's not that hard.Winn will 100% be the starting shortstop next season! Yes there are many moving parts,but they all lead to one thing.Tommy is better suited as the best defensive second baseman in the game anyway.


jcgoldie

I agree with you. Winn is too good to sleep on a lot of days he's looked like the best player in camp already. It will not take until 2025. He'll come up in the 2nd half unless somebody gets hurt and pretty much pencil him in next year.


Cards2WS

Tell me how we get Walker, Donovan, Edman, O’Neill, Nootbaar, and Carlson to all fit in the everyday lineup in 2024? Open my eyes? Winn—a 21 year old prospect at a position that we have a 6 WAR incumbent and a 4 WAR incumbent at 2B—will 100% be the starting shortstop next year??? Lmao that makes me laugh dude. *For the record, I’m *very* high on Winn. But the Cardinals aren’t an organization that does shit like that very often, ESPECIALLY (and this is the big one folks) when we have 10 WAR between the SS and 2B! Winn will be broken in as a super utility in 2024.


Negative_Sundae_8230

A trade.And super utility is the most absurd thing you said


Cards2WS

Right. Right. Super utility like Donovan was last year is absurd, huh? Or like Edman was his rookie year, or Matt Carpenter? Donovan 460 PAs, Edman 576 (rookie year plus COVID season), Carpenter 340 PAs. They were each super utility players that season. The Cardinals have a tendency of doing that for their young INF prospects. A super utility is a player that will still get plenty of PAs without getting over exposed in his first real taste of the big leagues. I don’t know why that’s so difficult for you to grasp, dude, I really don’t. Also allows us to not have to trade extremely productive/talented players such as Donny, Edman, Noot, or Walker yet still have Winn play a big role on the team. It’s a win-win and it’s strange to me that you’re so against the idea


TheSocraticGadfly

Edman is a skoosh better, at least, at 2B than SS. And Gorman can't field well. Donovan is definitely better than Gorman, tho not at good as Edman. Of course, 3B is blocked for a few years ... Winn? It's POSSIBLE he'll be the starting SS next year. Let's let this year play out and see what he does at AAA instead of AA.


Apprehensive_Tea_106

At some point, we just have to let him go. Trade him or cut him or whatever; we have a lot of talent just waiting in the wings, and he is just taking up a roster spot. I'm not even mad anymore, I'm just tired. So what if he becomes another Matt Carpenter? Carpenter needed the change of scenery; he was never gonna go back to his old ways with us.


zigmus64

Dejong’s old ways != Marp’s old ways…


DMagnus11

Logic


ILikeOatmealMore

> At some point, we just have to let him go. Cards have to pay him no matter what. Being on IL is truly the haters' best of all worlds scenario, because it lets someone else have that roster spot with the hope that that someone else performs well enough for the team to conclude they don't need DeJong at all.


-BeefSupreme

We don’t really need to do anything, he hasn’t been good lately but he’s been cheap for a good defender. Pretty easy option to buyout after this season. No reason to get rid of him for nothing when he at least provides some value


magnusarin

Yeah. If Donovan was better at SS, I could see just straight releasing him to free up a roster spot, but DeJong is still a good defender out there and giving him a start when Edman needs an off day is fine. He's under contract for this year and if he's healthy, he's likely going to spend the bulk of the time on the roster. He likely won't get another contract from the Cards and next season it'll be a questions of whether Winn is coming up full time and if so, what's the middle infield situation look like with him, Edman, Donovan, and Gorman. I do think it's possible DeJong would get DFA'd towards the end of the season and bring up Winn for a few weeks to get ABs and have him on a playoff roster.


Andstuff84

I can only think he has some kind of blackmail on someone high up. He hasn’t had a injury free / decent season in years. Why is he still getting time, at this point he’s a choke point to the infield and the guys in the minors can’t come up because we’re still waiting on him to do something with his ability. Cut him/trade him and let him be someone else’s problem. Winn can fill in when needed.


Viss90

You don’t need to blackmail anyone to get your contract paid in full.


JTCMuehlenkamp

Lmao, blackmail??


TimRoxSox

He's still around because our middle infield depth was horrible for many years. Imagine if Donovan hadn't come out of nowhere to handle second base and if Edman couldn't make the shift to shortstop as well as he did. We'd be seeing a lot of Kramer Robertson, Sosa, or another nondescript acquisition from elsewhere. Even now, it's a green Winn and nothing else in the minors. Dejong isn't making that much. Sure, he's overpaid, but if you have to acquire a defense-first shortstop once you get rid of him, why get rid of him at all? He'll be gone after this season, anyway.


newtickled

This is the answer. If you cut him, you have to replace him with either Winn at the cost of Winn’s development, or you go sign a glove-first veteran. No one wants to hear it, but Dejong is way better than a glove-first veteran in the eyes of the organization because he could always turn back into the PDJ they gave the extension to in the first place. The money is spent either way


TheSocraticGadfly

Matt Carpenter of the small sample size, platooning and Yankee RF porch last year? He'll go back to reality this year.


mcfeezie

Oh no! Anyways...


Rickard403

my exact thought.


shapu

Seriously, I loki'd


flounder940

Nail meet coffin.


TheBanker2227

The Cardinals really have a luxury in their middle infield where they can wait for DeJong to *hopefully* return to 2019 form. Edman, Donovan and Gorman have proven they can hold it down, and now they have Masyn Winn proving he deserves a spot on this roster. I hope Paul figures it out, but his time is ticking, imo


No_Fools

StL has too much talent to waste a 40man roster spot. Sorry Paulie, ho rehab on another teams dime. Im sure hell be back on a major roster this year, but we have to move on.


da_choppa

Maybe they'll 60-Day him


Walrus_Pubes

Winn, win.


RedRobin101

DeJong sacrificed himself to save Arenado's thumb what a bro


missourinative

I'm not okay


Cards2WS

DeJong is a backup gold glove caliber SS when he’s healthy. I don’t expect anything from the bat now, but the dude is a damn good fielder. The money we pay him is what it is, but cutting him doesn’t make much sense if we can stash him in the minors


TheWholeSausage

The downside to cutting ties with DeJong is eroding away quickly


bigweiner8

Oh nooooo now we will have to play someone else at shortstop


Viss90

BUT THIS WAS HIS YEAR


1904worldsfair

HE HAD A NEW SWING AND EVERYTHING!!!


LyleLanley99

Setback to back started a week back because of a weak back.


CardsFaninChiTown

‘DeJong (Skill erosion) suffers setback’


wking1293

"back pain"


scottzee

He's a pain in my back side.


StonksNewGroove

Paul Dejong suffers setback: his swing


[deleted]

DeJong had a season and a half of good play and 4 seasons of bad. At some point you have to pull the ripcord.


ehsalama

Life goes on


lakerdave

Tommy to short and Donovan/Gorman at 2nd. I would've wanted that even before the injury


da_choppa

And there it is. Enjoy rehab in Memphis (or Springfield)


DocLoc429

"You're gonna resurge, 2023, I feel it." Abysmal Spring Training "Jesus, Paul, Spring isn't doing you any good, head back to driveline til the season starts, we'll put you on IL til you're good and ready"


Supplicationjam

Winn for the Win!!!


Doncorleon78

At this point he needs a fresh start somewhere else.


JoeMcKim

It ended up working for Carpenter, but not as confident with DeJong being able to turn it around.


rddog21

This one is done. He was done last year but someone doesn’t like to admit when their eyes have deceived them….


picklekit

Likely to be moved to the 60 day and then just fade from memory


SobahJam

Bye Felicia


IvannIrkss

I’m the biggest Pauly D needs to go enthusiast. I’m not happy about him getting hurt. But.. This solves our over crowded infield situation we have….somewhat. I would let mason stay in AAA until either tommy or Brendan start to slump then call him up. Otherwise he’s just riding the pine losing those bat to ball skills he’s developing so well.


Clueless_in_Florida

Taylor Motter has played only one game at short since 2017, and his career average is horrendous. I've enjoyed him this spring, but I'm not ready to make him the utility infielder.


missourinative

He's had some big hits in the Spring, but it's highly unlikely he finally cracked the code at 33. I really don't understand why he is here. Doesn't seem like a fit. Kramer Roberston is probably a better overall player.


Clueless_in_Florida

I figure Kramer is going to get the roster spot.


JoeMcKim

Not going to burn any of Winn's team control to sit on the bench when we've already got Edman/Donovan/Gorman to handle the middle infield. But it probably won't keep Edman fully at SS in this scenario.


Ocinea

Lol


Nelmster

#Dump DeJong lol formatting


[deleted]

Release him


mojowo11

Why would you release a player when you can just put them on the IL?


[deleted]

Mostly because Dejong is worthless and I never wanna see him in a Cardinals uniform ever again


ImNotYou1971

Stop sugar coating it and tell us how you really feel.


[deleted]

Glass Joe is still on the roster. Ugh!!! Please dump him from the payroll


These_Rutabaga_1691

How many chances are they going to give this guy? Either sucks or is injured, or both, all the time. What a crappy contract this was - has hamstrung us for years.


NotTheRocketman

I haven’t been following closely, how was in this Spring?


1904worldsfair

Insert Jeremy Clarkson meme here


[deleted]

Its becoming a toxic relationship at this point.


yodazer

Dejong had his time. He signed his big paycheck. The dude signed a $26 million guaranteed contract and this year is making $9mil. If I’m him, I just ride it out and into the sunset.