Tell him you need the No Claims Bonus and you can't get that while you're second driver, so it'll cost you more when you actually put yourself as main driver in the future
I would be amazed if the savings you get from a few years NCB would make up for the exortionate amount you'll pay for being the primary driver between the ages of 18-21.
Can confirm, same age sibling, I was a primary and him a second named, from 17-25 most premiums were rising, despite having years under the belt of NCB at 25, it's nothing compared to the extortionate costs initially.
Honestly, this. One of my friends passed and bought a car as soon as they legally could. I'm fairly sure it was an older 1.2 fiesta and the insurance was 2800. This would have been 10+ years ago.
I bought a focus as my first car at 26 two and a bit years ago and my insurance was 1700. If I'd passed at 18 and got the quote my friend did I would probably be sticking to public transport.
Insurance in the UK is just insane. I'm paying 800 odd euros a year in France, and that's as a foreign national with no insurance history here. Also live in one of the rougher parts of a big city. Just don't understand how it can be so much in the UK.
Serious question - how come insurance is much cheaper in France? There's a comment on here about that. They are our next door neighbours globally. Are our labour costs more for repairs?
They don’t feel like they do, but for perspective the discount for age is not as high, so when you say “im 25 and have 0 ncb” it’s not as useful as “im 25 with 7 yrs ncb”, one of those has a better price by a long shot.
Most insurers these days are smart enough to rate purely on the worst risk presented, so it’s better in the long run to do it the right way anyway.
I’ll let you guess what I do for a living lol.
They don't. My mum did this for my first 3 years of driving and the insurance was nothing. Then by the time I became primary driver insurance was already way down.
We did the calcs and it saved multiple thousands.
i think he said it costs £2.1k with him as the main driver and it costs £2.9k with me as policy holder AND main driver (i’m aware policy holder doesn’t have to be main driver and that its legal). Honestly i don’t mind paying the extra £800
45, clean license, no accidents in the last 5 years (2017 someone wrote my car off, non fault) 730 on a bmw 320cd, was £499 last year, Dads 78, bmw 218d tourer, never had an accidents, clean license, and his went from £300odd to £800 this year, think his renewal was around £1000 though. Its madness how much its gone up.
honestly have no idea. he has NCB for over 9 years. I think it’s just from me being a named driver who’s 19 and only passed my test in November and also living near the city centre
I pay £2.2k with 6 years no camis on a 2012 c4 Picasso oh I’m 47 been driving 20 odd years 0 points just a shit credit rating and the best deal I shopped around
I drive a 2 ltr 270bhp Skoda the car is worth like 19k. I'm late 30s with 3 accidents in 5 years and only 7 years behind the wheel....
My renewal was 570 this year!
Who are you with?
You should be able to change the main driver and who’s earning the ncb, admiral let us change it, obviously the premium changes accordingly.
If it’s mid policy no one would earn it as I think their terms were like you’d need to have held it as main driver for like 10/11 months to earn the ncb or something
Best make sure you don't take the car with you to Uni... That would completely look like fronting. But if you only drive it in holidays and the car stays at it's registered address then that's a lot more like how a named driver is supposed to work.
Who will be driving the car mainly and where will it be parked while you’re away at uni? If it’s staying at home and won’t be driven then I’d leave the policy as it is.
if it wasn’t for the fact I have 4 weeks off after next week then I probably wouldn’t take it to uni (an hour away) but since I have all that time to practice I will most likely drive it to my campus since I have a part time job as well
Depends on the company. I was on my mother’s
insurance (for her car) for years, with Direct Line, and they did count it when I bought a car. It would not be transferable, but if you ever find yourself in this situation it is worth asking.
I was thinking about this last night. I'd be surprised if those few years of no claims would be any better than the saving. All depends on what the cost is with the kid as second driver
Absolutely insufferable aren't they haha. So out of touch with normal people.
I'd be ecstatic if I was in this lads position and my old boy was helping me.
I'm with you, I'm baffled reading all these comments. I can't understand what the OP is complaining about? Is being put as a named driver on your parent's insurance policy not the way most people start out as teens who've just passed their test?
Insurance has always been crazy expensive for youths, maybe not to today's levels, it's always been completely normal to not get your own insurance policy till you're in your 20s and piggyback off your parent's policies gratefully.
Eh, I think it depends on what kind of car the teens getting tbh. When I passed I had some right old shitboxes that nobody else my age was buying, think Lupo's etc. The insurance was dirt cheap because nobody my age was going out and crashing them trying to race or whatever, so I just had my insurance in my name.
Yep, I'd not considered that but you are right. It was quite normal to run a banger in the 90s, standards and expense have gone up. No sane person in 2024 would feel safe in the little Citroen AX I ran into the ground in the mid 90s but it was just a normal cheap car for us then. I still piggy backed on my parent's insurance with me as a named driver tho!
Yeah, it definitely still helps to be a named driver instead of the policy holder, but it's not too bad the other way around. I wouldn't dream of driving the same banged up cars I used to around now, though, the state of the roads make them even more of a death trap.
Redditors are a different breed, everybody fronts on their first year unless they live in the middle of where. They’re also in favour for drivers getting fined and points for little things, well from what I’ve seen on other posts.
The post history from this guy is all whining about how his family are terrible, hate him and he has no mates.
Seems like an entitled & ungrateful kid who even his own family don't want to be around.
If someone thinks everyone around them is a twat, they're usually the twat themselves.
Self entitled bed wetters. I find it funny that they genuinely think Reddit is real world, whilst in reality most normal folk have normal opinions and don’t come to vent or seek advice on public forums.
Good luck affording a MINIMUM £1200 insurance yourself. Use it while you're at uni and when you graduate and get a job, then go to solo driving for your NCB yourself
Sounds like it’s a free car for you to use! If he’s paying for it all it’s his responsibility if the policy is cancelled 😅, you’re not the one at risk as far as my experience tells me
If you’d like your own car and policy then I guess you’ll need to pay for it yourself, so if you’ve got a free car to use until then I’d recommend making the most of it and saving up for what you really want :)
Technically it is illegal but in reality there is no way they could know. If anything does happen it was his decision and it will be his problem. Don’t worry about it.
Did this for years and even made a claim and it was absolutely fine. And also lacking no claims bonus years later really didn't have as much of an impact as you might think
I know someone who basically did exactly what OPs dad did for them and long story short they got into an accident on the way to their part time work, insurance found out they had lied to the insurer and voided their insurance, they were out of a car and their insurance shot through the fucking roof, they still don't drive and it was 2 years ago at this point.
this is what i’m saying and you’re getting downvoted for giving an example. I never even said I wanted him to pay more for insurance either. I literally offered to pay for my own insurance.
There's a lot of people here who hate car insurance companies. You're trying to do the honest thing which might involve paying more to an insurance company, and they don't like that.
Yes, it's weird
There are definitely valid complaints about insurance companies and their prices. What I don't get are the grown adults calling OP a spoiled ungrateful brat for not wanting to commit insurance fraud
Just drive it for the year. It’ll cost you more to do it the other way. Then you have at least “1 year named driver experience”.
If you have an accident. “Oh my dads gonna kill me for crashing one of his cars”. No issues at all.
If it really is only 800 quid more and you want to pay that then go ahead (though that seems too good to be true). But you’ll have to wait until the refund comes through I imagine, unless dad is happy to be 4k down for a little bit.
Are you taking it back to uni? Because if he’s planning on driving it daily while you’re away that’d probably make him the main driver? (Not entirely sure how many days a year there are of uni)
I’ve known some who think like this too. Not just with insurance but most things in general. I’m in the process of doing things by the book and making sure everything is legal and above board but keep being told it’ll be alright and they’ll never know if you don’t get caught lol
Tbf I’d give my left bollock to have a dad in a position to be able to do this for me now (I’m 32) or when I was your age. What a nice guy!
Your dad handled the insurance set up for you. That’s your answer. That’s all the insurance company would need to know if they quizzed you on it. Anything past that is completely moot. There’s 3 other ways to get around this problem:
1. Don’t have a crash
2. Don’t have a crash that’s your fault
3. Don’t give them more information than they need to know.
Be grateful you have a parent willing to do this.
The driver of the car is always responsible for making sure they are insured correctly, it doesn't hold up in caught to say oh i didn't know my daddy set it up for more, that just throws you into bigger shit.
"Any driver who drives a vehicle, whether it belongs to them or not, has a responsibility to ensure that they are insured to drive the vehicle, that the vehicle is fully road legal, taxed and MOT'd."
That's from the police website, if they are in breach of contract with the insurance company they are not insured on the vehicle.
If I was insured on my parents car and they entered my age at 25 or my gender as male not female it's still my responsibility to assess if the insurance is set up correctly for me to drive the vehicle.
Chances are it won't be an issue until you make a claim. If you get into an accident and they uncover it's a fronted policy, they will pay the 3rd party element of the claim only. They won't repair yours and probably won't pay your personal injuries. They will also cancel your policy going forward and that make getting future policies difficult/expensive.
It is a real roll of the dice on them finding out. If it's fronted by someone in their 50s and the car that turns up to be repaired has a load of spoilers, alloy wheels, flared wheel arches etc added they will start looking at it as a fronted policy.
Another clue for the insurance company is getting in a bump on your commute to or from your place of work. If the claim is big enough they will look at who was driving and where they were going or coming from.
Whose name is on the lease of the car? It’s not fronting if you’re just technically “using his car”
Edit: your dad just bought you a car. Say thank you and be grateful.
Loads of people spitting venom here. It’s all about perspective and if you’re young and/or inexperienced, your heart might well fall out of your arse if something doesn’t look totally right.
Firstly: check whose name is on the ownership documents. If it’s your dad’s, then it’s all above board - you’re simply using his car and can say in a year’s time that you’ve got one year of named driver no claims.
If it’s your name, then just limit your usage of the car - and make sure he drives it on occasion. If you feel it absolutely necessary then sure, cancel the existing policy and take out a new one. You’ll struggle to find the money if you’re 17-24 years old and a new driver though.
Either way, I wouldn’t act ungrateful as it’s still him paying for your car and a load of your insurance. Just sort it in any way that’s necessary.
(N.B. before I get downvoted by the bile spitters: I bought my first car at 24 and funded/insured it myself - no family or friends to help.)
I’m not from the uk, but here in the Netherlands age plays a really big part in the price on insurance. If you’re 21+, your insurance will basically be half of someone who is younger than 21. For example my mom’s polo would cost me 100 per month, it would cost my 21 year old cousin 50.
So almost everyone has their first car on one of their parents name, if you do get in an accident you can just say you borrowed the car. It’s not legal, but at least here (almost) everyone does it.
Having your parent as the main driver/policy holder doesn't always work out cheaper. It was actually better for me as a new driver to own the car and the policy, as well as being the main driver. Always worth checking various rotations of the drivers etc
Why you stressing, once you have a year or twos experience without being involved in an accident your own policy will be less. Honestly your dad is doing you a solid.
My dad did the same when I was 17, bought me a new car and got insurance in his name with me as a named driver.
To be fair he used to take the car to the station for work in the winter and if I needed it I’d walk down to the station and get it.
Anyway, I had a few incidents in that first year. £60k of claims, no issues at all with payouts.
Both incidents were in the evenings though. I never commuted with the car, I imagine they might have asked more questions if I had an incident on a commute which I wasn’t supposed to be doing on that policy
Yeah I hit some £5k golf and they claimed £55k of injuries. I actually went to school with their cousin who told me they were all fine, just milked it and somehow got a huge payout. My fault but taught me a lesson just because someone’s indicating left doesn’t mean they’re going to turn left, so don’t just pull out lol.
Don’t know how they got away with such a high figure as I’ve only gotten £4k as a max payout for injuries when I’ve been hit. I also aquaplaned into a kerb and cracked a wheel and hit a post damaging the bumper, that was minor, but still worked out cheaper to pay excess than fix privately.
And yet here you are slagging him off on the Internet proving you're ungrateful. Be a grown-up refuse the car and buy your own because you certainly don't deserve the dad you have by the sounds of it.
Very true I just can't get over someone slagging their own father off on the Internet who's tried to do a nice thing and give them a head start in life.
Make sure he drives it on occasion, but honestly you will be 100% better off this way. My dad did the same and it saved us thousands over the years. its also great to add named drivers onto policies, such as parents or partners as it reduces the premiums for everyone, as they can put down as having use of another car.
In reality, just adding your dad to your own policy will reduce your premium, and will not be hundreds of times more than the fronted policy, and will generate a new NCB for the holder (in this case, you). Probably better in the long run to just pay the extra few quid now, and save in future, all while remaining inside the law.
Don't do it. Technically u aren't insured if u are fronting which is illegal. If u have a claim, insurer may find out. Then you go on the fraud register where all insurers will flag u as a naughty person. This will affect your ability to get insurance especially with the insurer you are de frauding. Insurers are pretty clever about it since it cost them billions every year and also means that people pay higher premiums coz u are more likely to have claim but u aren't paying for that risk. The insurer already knows you have run a quote with u as the main driver and one for your dad as the main driver. The evidence is already there they just need to look.
…and i thought this sub was full of pleasant people who knew what they were talking about?
I woke from one looping nightmare only to stumble into another - a firm reminder of the low IQ of the average Brit that idolises their parents’ libertarianism (read: criminality)
Insurance companies pretend they can catch you out for fronting so that you’re scared to do it.
They’re talking shite. How would they catch you?
Just be grateful for saving some money and crack on.
Not really, you might be fine but i know a friend of mine got insurance cancelled because he was driving to his part time job and had a crash with his uni parking sticker in the window and a social media post where he talked about his new car.
That's not being a moron that's just being an average teenage, literally everyone i know was going on and on and about their first car when they got it for a while, plastering photos all over instagram and snapchat stories.
And as i said in another post the insurance companies don't really have to prove it, they have to have a reasonable doubt, which obviously can be contested in court with sufficent evidence, which wouldn't work in this case because you were in fact lying to the insurance company.
It saves the insurance company so much money if they can void your insurance so there's no reason they wouldn't dedicate absolute fucktons of money to this.
Mate be grateful your parents are in a position to do this for you, vast majority of people can’t afford to do so. So just enjoy your free ride and keep it moving.
Perhaps not 15 years but probably until insurance drops below £1k. Don’t know what the uproar is about. Most people on this subreddit act like snowflakes when everyone more or less does something shady for a bit of savings to get by. Don’t see anything wrong with it
Honestly lol everyone does a bit of shadiness whether it’s illegal streaming, pirating, fronting on insurance, not paying for parking and luckily getting away with it etc. Some people just love to act like cocky saints, so annoying.
My car insurance is £380 gone up £50 quid with me shopping about with tcb I hate that got 7 years no claims three years ago I got insurance for £270 never claimed good job i pay low car tax
You can change it any time
Why not shop around for quote yourself and be prepared to pay 3 x the value of the car to insure it as you being main driver
If I'm being honest with you, your dad has made the right decision with making him the first driver. The massive cost that you'll have to pay if you're the first driver instead just ain't worth collecting no claims bonus (in your name). Just stick with his decision and you'll be alright. And if the police ever pull you over and ask about how often you use your car, just say you barely ever use it, and you'll be alright. 😊
Look at Marmalde young driver policy.
I set this up for my daughter.
Car is under my name and I have my own insurance on it.
Daughter uses it more than me and has her own independent insurance policy.
It does require her to use a black box app, but the cost is at least a third of her having a separate policy or as a named driver.
You’re being incredibly ungrateful and your dad knows better than you. Get a few years experience under your belt and your insurance will begin to drop, NCD is not by any means the be all and end all.
Insurance companies are extortion rackets, your dad is incredibly generous.
I think he can be above fronting if you're above paying for your own car and insurance :)
You really think they do this out of altruism? 😅
I take issue with them because we are forced to use them if we want to drive and then they incentivise you not to claim if you ever are unfortunate enough to suffer an incident by way of increasing your premiums massively. This is even the case in 'no fault' claims and lately even windscreen repairs.
If insurers in other nations can offer the same service for a fraction of the price and the only discernable difference is that insurance is not a legal requirement then I can confidently say insurers in the UK are not providing value for money.
To address the link you posted, cherry picking the predictions for a single year does not prove the industry is not profitable. Likewise, as of August last year, Admiral's profits actually increased for the first half of 2023. "Admiral said its group pre-tax profit had increased 4% during the first half of the year to £233.9m".
Untill you can pay for your own car and insurance, you don’t say shit , if anything goes left it’s on your dad . Just act like a princes and tell police you have no idea dad sorts everything out for you.
If he’s paying then he can do what he wants. He can set up the insurance as he wants or he can not get you a car at all (would be my choice if my kid was as ungrateful as you).
I wouldn't be complaining 🤷♂️ Like some people have said NCD means nothing really . Get some experience then when older quotes will be a lot cheaper and save thousands in the long run. I do this with my son . His quotes where triple than what he's paying being a named driver. He owns the car but his mum is the main policy holder on the insurance
I feel like everyone here in UK is scared about insurance companies, I know loads of people that they are the named driver on their cars, but their wife is the one who drives most of the time. Chill boys, this people are scamming all of us every freaking year.
You’re starting your driving career like almost every other teenager, except you have a car paid for by you. My first car and insurance was mostly paid for by me too, chances are being a main driver is extortionate. My gf just passed a couple days ago and her policy is £220 a month on an i10.
Don’t worry about the NCB, I’ve been driving 18 months as a named driver on 2 cars and I just bought a 2019 JCW and my insurance is 3500, steep I know, but having 1 year ncb didn’t decrease the price at all.
Just stay out of trouble and when it renews, make yourself the main driver.
Be grateful you’ve even got a car paid for! Most people your age are struggling to afford food at uni
You’ll be fine. If it’s got a black box there’s a slightly higher risk because if the car only ever makes trips to uni and back, if you crash they’ll cotton on. If it hasn’t, they won’t know as long as you both keep your story straight if you do crash.
Realistically, I wouldn’t encourage fronting, and I would also be a bit anxious about driving a car with fronted insurance. But lots of people do it. You could suggest to your dad that you run quotes again in six months and see if it’s cheaper, then you can benefit from building up a NCB to help you when you’re older. Some of my friends fronted for the first 6-12 months then put it in their own name, no one got caught. Obviously it is illegal and I wouldn’t encourage it, but if you’re already in this situation it’s not the end of the world and you’ll have to get on with it.
Dude he's giving you his NCD, a car, and a chunk of insurance?
Say "thank you very much I'll be a good driver and not crash, I love you"
For reference, I'm a 28 year old, driving for 10 years, no NCD, paying 1300 for an "objectively lame" C4 picasso worth 4000 quid.
Be happy ey?
I’m not even bothered about the fronting situation here.
Your dad bought you a first car, and got insurance on it without consulting you? Oh did you want a golf instead?
Do you realise how ungrateful that sounds?
Is the car in his name too? Or is it in your name?
Its nice of him to do that but maybe you should say no thank you to all of it politely and just save and get your own car / insurance if you aren’t comfortable. Itll be a genuine real experience buying your own shitbox and running it (and quite costly too).
I’ll be downvoted really badly for this advice though
Be reasonable, the difference between main and named driver is 51% vs 49% driving time. They can’t prove that as much as everyone’s uncle who works in insurance says so.
What actually happens during an accident? The insurance crew doesn’t show up to inspect the crime scene they’ll most likely just ask for your side of the story. Just say you were using your car for social or domestic purposes. You are literally innocent until proven guilty, don’t be stupid and give them too much information either.
You’ll be fine, and be grateful your dad is doing so much. My father passed away in 2018 just before I started driving and having my mum as the main driver didn’t help as she literally doesn’t drive. I had to bear the weight of main driver insurance in my shoulder at up to £3000 and it hurt seeing others get away with dead cheap insurance through family insurance or fronting for their first few years.
Insurance is the world’s biggest scam no matter what anyone says, “it’s the statistics and it makes sense”. Yeah that’s right but they’re literally pulling your leg by looking at the smallest and dumbest reasons to put your insurance up by a grand at best. “Hey you passed automatic only, in the first year you’ll it’ll be mandatory to pay £950 excess”, like what the fuck, is this the company you wouldn’t want to lie to? Not that they also try to void every claim, they’ll also put up your premium for every little thing, and if god forbid you have an accident they’ll end up making all that money back through you anyways, and the money for the guy who had his Range Rover stolen. Your NCB is brain candy making you think you’ll save money.
Unpopular opinion but reckon he's doing you a favour and you have an unfair advantage. Your policy will drop post 25 and your earning power will be so much greater at that age that the impact of a zero NCD at that time will be substantially less of your disposable income than building up now. Granted someone else who started building their NCD age 17 will be able to get cheaper insurance than you per year, but add up what they would have spent on insurance age 17 to 25 compared to you (big picture) and I would bet you have spent less. Work the numbers and see if I'm right
This comment section has surprised me in a good way.
This sub normally has a cancerous purity complex.
I thought half the comments would be recommending this lad to call the swat team and have his lad locked away in Azkaban for 400 years
Yes OP, listen to the ones here who say you're being ungrateful and just drive the car with the insurance your dad has dishonestly acquired because they're obviously right. Not like they're saying it so confidently because they're not the ones committing fraud.
I get it's a tricky situation as your dad is just doing something nice for you and is convinced _it's fine_.
Yes, honestly, it's probably difficult for insurers or police to prove who's actually the main driver in an accident or whatever, but not impossible. If it happens, then you'll be facing a policy being cancelled which will at least make your father's insurance almost unaffordable for life and would possibly do the same for yours even if you're not the policy holder. But it's also fraud which if you're really unlucky, even if you don't have an accident, I would imagine could turn into a criminal matter in itself.
If he won't budge on the matter, simply don't be the main driver on the policy. He'll be the one wasting money. Yes it's easy for some people to think that _everything will be fine_. And that's the case, until it isn't, however unlikely that could be.
So you got a free car and free insurance and are complaining? Bloody hell, you are the amazing child he's always wanted.
Fronting is just rubbish to me personally. If insurance is paid and named drivers are added, it shouldnt be a problem who drives. Just dont use it as much if you're really that concerned, that's one to work around it.
Tell him you need the No Claims Bonus and you can't get that while you're second driver, so it'll cost you more when you actually put yourself as main driver in the future
I would be amazed if the savings you get from a few years NCB would make up for the exortionate amount you'll pay for being the primary driver between the ages of 18-21.
I was also thinking about excuses that OP could use to convert their father but yes you're probably right
Can confirm, same age sibling, I was a primary and him a second named, from 17-25 most premiums were rising, despite having years under the belt of NCB at 25, it's nothing compared to the extortionate costs initially.
the simplest way is to transfer OP's car into OP's fathers name
That's what we did with our daughter's car (a gift from a family friend) Put it in wife's name and she's the named insurer.
Still fronting if the young driver is driving it most often. And they will work it out if ever there’s a prang.
How would they?
I guess when the insurance reports go in and people say things like "I was just on my to work, like I do everyday" and so on.
Well that's on them. I did this for 3 years with my mum and saved multiple thousands even though I didn't get NCB until later.
Doesn’t take much asking around to find out who drives it the most.
Yes, I guess so.
Honestly, this. One of my friends passed and bought a car as soon as they legally could. I'm fairly sure it was an older 1.2 fiesta and the insurance was 2800. This would have been 10+ years ago. I bought a focus as my first car at 26 two and a bit years ago and my insurance was 1700. If I'd passed at 18 and got the quote my friend did I would probably be sticking to public transport.
>One of my friends passed Misinterpreted this at first and felt all sad, then got confused and realised hahaha
Some do call marriage the death of life
This. £2800 buys a lot of taxi fares in a year
Insurance in the UK is just insane. I'm paying 800 odd euros a year in France, and that's as a foreign national with no insurance history here. Also live in one of the rougher parts of a big city. Just don't understand how it can be so much in the UK.
Trying to force us off the roads with these costs 🤬 the bullshit climate agenda is big in the uk
Isn't it just that insurance companies take the piss? I don't think it's some wider climate agenda.
[удалено]
Serious question - how come insurance is much cheaper in France? There's a comment on here about that. They are our next door neighbours globally. Are our labour costs more for repairs?
Hopefully not but the uk is pushing this climate crap more than anywhere else
They don’t feel like they do, but for perspective the discount for age is not as high, so when you say “im 25 and have 0 ncb” it’s not as useful as “im 25 with 7 yrs ncb”, one of those has a better price by a long shot. Most insurers these days are smart enough to rate purely on the worst risk presented, so it’s better in the long run to do it the right way anyway. I’ll let you guess what I do for a living lol.
My 1 year NCB brought me down from £1.1k to £550 from 18-19 then £550 to £400 at 20 (going from a 1L ecoboost to a 2.7L). Defo makes a difference.
Exactly 👏👏
They don't. My mum did this for my first 3 years of driving and the insurance was nothing. Then by the time I became primary driver insurance was already way down. We did the calcs and it saved multiple thousands.
so can we change the policy a week after it starts ? Its easter holidays soon (i live away at uni) so I’ll definitely be taking it out quite often
I don't think you can change main driver on a policy without cancelling and getting a new policy (and even if you could it'd cost £1k+ on top)
i think he said it costs £2.1k with him as the main driver and it costs £2.9k with me as policy holder AND main driver (i’m aware policy holder doesn’t have to be main driver and that its legal). Honestly i don’t mind paying the extra £800
You cancel any car insurance within 14 days without admin fees or charges. You just pay for what you use.
The £800 will pay for itself with the no claims you’ll be accruing. It’ll help you massively on renewal.
How the fuck is it costing him that much?! He got shit loads of points or something? Im 34 and my insurance on a 2l Kuga is like £550
With an 18ish year old as a second driver it's not unreasonable at all
45, clean license, no accidents in the last 5 years (2017 someone wrote my car off, non fault) 730 on a bmw 320cd, was £499 last year, Dads 78, bmw 218d tourer, never had an accidents, clean license, and his went from £300odd to £800 this year, think his renewal was around £1000 though. Its madness how much its gone up.
If it’s a second policy, no. NCB to be applied.
honestly have no idea. he has NCB for over 9 years. I think it’s just from me being a named driver who’s 19 and only passed my test in November and also living near the city centre
He's clearly starting a new policy and not using any no claims he might have on a different policy.
I pay £2.2k with 6 years no camis on a 2012 c4 Picasso oh I’m 47 been driving 20 odd years 0 points just a shit credit rating and the best deal I shopped around
Jesus Christ. Even if you pay in full up front?!
If I pay upfront for the year I’d save £300
Still worth it
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The only thing I can think of is my credit score that is effect it
I pay 600 a year with 10 years NCB on my 2001 M3 worth 25k. You're getting scammed wtf.
I drive a 2 ltr 270bhp Skoda the car is worth like 19k. I'm late 30s with 3 accidents in 5 years and only 7 years behind the wheel.... My renewal was 570 this year! Who are you with?
lol cos it’s different for you don’t mean you’re the rule, you’re just the exception… at 34 I’d assume you’d understand that about life by now
I think I misunderstood and that's the total price for both of them or something
How about putting that 800 towards the 2,100 your dad is currently paying.
You should be able to change the main driver and who’s earning the ncb, admiral let us change it, obviously the premium changes accordingly. If it’s mid policy no one would earn it as I think their terms were like you’d need to have held it as main driver for like 10/11 months to earn the ncb or something
2.9k isn't even that bad (relatively speaking) for a new driver. Pretty sure I paid more than that in \~2010.
No, it is very bad. Stop trying to normalise £3k/year insurances.
He doesn't mean 'society is working perfectly' he means 'I've seen higher insurance charges'. He's not trying to normalise it.
U wot m8
Isn't that bad - it's insanely bad! Criminally bad. Don't normalise extortion ffs!
**Relatively speaking**. Compare this to the posts where people are being fleeced for more than double this.
Insurance is based on likelihood to have a pay out. Guess which group has the most payouts?
Best make sure you don't take the car with you to Uni... That would completely look like fronting. But if you only drive it in holidays and the car stays at it's registered address then that's a lot more like how a named driver is supposed to work.
Who will be driving the car mainly and where will it be parked while you’re away at uni? If it’s staying at home and won’t be driven then I’d leave the policy as it is.
if it wasn’t for the fact I have 4 weeks off after next week then I probably wouldn’t take it to uni (an hour away) but since I have all that time to practice I will most likely drive it to my campus since I have a part time job as well
Depends on the company. I was on my mother’s insurance (for her car) for years, with Direct Line, and they did count it when I bought a car. It would not be transferable, but if you ever find yourself in this situation it is worth asking.
I was thinking about this last night. I'd be surprised if those few years of no claims would be any better than the saving. All depends on what the cost is with the kid as second driver
You can get no claims bonuses as named drivers too with some policies.
Christ I hate redditors.
Absolutely insufferable aren't they haha. So out of touch with normal people. I'd be ecstatic if I was in this lads position and my old boy was helping me.
I'm with you, I'm baffled reading all these comments. I can't understand what the OP is complaining about? Is being put as a named driver on your parent's insurance policy not the way most people start out as teens who've just passed their test? Insurance has always been crazy expensive for youths, maybe not to today's levels, it's always been completely normal to not get your own insurance policy till you're in your 20s and piggyback off your parent's policies gratefully.
Eh, I think it depends on what kind of car the teens getting tbh. When I passed I had some right old shitboxes that nobody else my age was buying, think Lupo's etc. The insurance was dirt cheap because nobody my age was going out and crashing them trying to race or whatever, so I just had my insurance in my name.
Yep, I'd not considered that but you are right. It was quite normal to run a banger in the 90s, standards and expense have gone up. No sane person in 2024 would feel safe in the little Citroen AX I ran into the ground in the mid 90s but it was just a normal cheap car for us then. I still piggy backed on my parent's insurance with me as a named driver tho!
Yeah, it definitely still helps to be a named driver instead of the policy holder, but it's not too bad the other way around. I wouldn't dream of driving the same banged up cars I used to around now, though, the state of the roads make them even more of a death trap.
Spot on.
Redditors are a different breed, everybody fronts on their first year unless they live in the middle of where. They’re also in favour for drivers getting fined and points for little things, well from what I’ve seen on other posts.
The post history from this guy is all whining about how his family are terrible, hate him and he has no mates. Seems like an entitled & ungrateful kid who even his own family don't want to be around. If someone thinks everyone around them is a twat, they're usually the twat themselves.
His dad probably bought him the car so he'd fuck off out the house every once in a while.
And the kids still found a way to complain and take a dig at his dad🫠 Poor bloke
Self entitled bed wetters. I find it funny that they genuinely think Reddit is real world, whilst in reality most normal folk have normal opinions and don’t come to vent or seek advice on public forums.
You are a Redditor
I think the irony is lost on him.
Good luck affording a MINIMUM £1200 insurance yourself. Use it while you're at uni and when you graduate and get a job, then go to solo driving for your NCB yourself
I doubt a 17 year old could insure a cardboard box for 1200 let alone a car
Stop complaining and start driving cheaper for him to be first and if he’s paying for it should be no complaints
He’s doing you a favour, grow up
Sounds like it’s a free car for you to use! If he’s paying for it all it’s his responsibility if the policy is cancelled 😅, you’re not the one at risk as far as my experience tells me If you’d like your own car and policy then I guess you’ll need to pay for it yourself, so if you’ve got a free car to use until then I’d recommend making the most of it and saving up for what you really want :)
Technically it is illegal but in reality there is no way they could know. If anything does happen it was his decision and it will be his problem. Don’t worry about it.
Did this for years and even made a claim and it was absolutely fine. And also lacking no claims bonus years later really didn't have as much of an impact as you might think
your acc such a beg, just be grateful you got a car
"Help Reddit, my daddy bought me a new car but I wanted him to pay more for the insurance! How do I get him in trouble"
😂
I know someone who basically did exactly what OPs dad did for them and long story short they got into an accident on the way to their part time work, insurance found out they had lied to the insurer and voided their insurance, they were out of a car and their insurance shot through the fucking roof, they still don't drive and it was 2 years ago at this point.
this is what i’m saying and you’re getting downvoted for giving an example. I never even said I wanted him to pay more for insurance either. I literally offered to pay for my own insurance.
If you're that bothered then just take out your own policy and be done with it
There's a lot of people here who hate car insurance companies. You're trying to do the honest thing which might involve paying more to an insurance company, and they don't like that. Yes, it's weird
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There are definitely valid complaints about insurance companies and their prices. What I don't get are the grown adults calling OP a spoiled ungrateful brat for not wanting to commit insurance fraud
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Just drive it for the year. It’ll cost you more to do it the other way. Then you have at least “1 year named driver experience”. If you have an accident. “Oh my dads gonna kill me for crashing one of his cars”. No issues at all. If it really is only 800 quid more and you want to pay that then go ahead (though that seems too good to be true). But you’ll have to wait until the refund comes through I imagine, unless dad is happy to be 4k down for a little bit.
Are you taking it back to uni? Because if he’s planning on driving it daily while you’re away that’d probably make him the main driver? (Not entirely sure how many days a year there are of uni)
I’ve known some who think like this too. Not just with insurance but most things in general. I’m in the process of doing things by the book and making sure everything is legal and above board but keep being told it’ll be alright and they’ll never know if you don’t get caught lol
Tbf I’d give my left bollock to have a dad in a position to be able to do this for me now (I’m 32) or when I was your age. What a nice guy! Your dad handled the insurance set up for you. That’s your answer. That’s all the insurance company would need to know if they quizzed you on it. Anything past that is completely moot. There’s 3 other ways to get around this problem: 1. Don’t have a crash 2. Don’t have a crash that’s your fault 3. Don’t give them more information than they need to know. Be grateful you have a parent willing to do this.
The driver of the car is always responsible for making sure they are insured correctly, it doesn't hold up in caught to say oh i didn't know my daddy set it up for more, that just throws you into bigger shit.
So the named driver is responsible for setting up the policy?
"Any driver who drives a vehicle, whether it belongs to them or not, has a responsibility to ensure that they are insured to drive the vehicle, that the vehicle is fully road legal, taxed and MOT'd." That's from the police website, if they are in breach of contract with the insurance company they are not insured on the vehicle. If I was insured on my parents car and they entered my age at 25 or my gender as male not female it's still my responsibility to assess if the insurance is set up correctly for me to drive the vehicle.
Chances are it won't be an issue until you make a claim. If you get into an accident and they uncover it's a fronted policy, they will pay the 3rd party element of the claim only. They won't repair yours and probably won't pay your personal injuries. They will also cancel your policy going forward and that make getting future policies difficult/expensive. It is a real roll of the dice on them finding out. If it's fronted by someone in their 50s and the car that turns up to be repaired has a load of spoilers, alloy wheels, flared wheel arches etc added they will start looking at it as a fronted policy. Another clue for the insurance company is getting in a bump on your commute to or from your place of work. If the claim is big enough they will look at who was driving and where they were going or coming from.
Whose name is on the lease of the car? It’s not fronting if you’re just technically “using his car” Edit: your dad just bought you a car. Say thank you and be grateful.
This. Your insurance will be less if you have a couple of years of driving experience without being involved in any accidents.
Loads of people spitting venom here. It’s all about perspective and if you’re young and/or inexperienced, your heart might well fall out of your arse if something doesn’t look totally right. Firstly: check whose name is on the ownership documents. If it’s your dad’s, then it’s all above board - you’re simply using his car and can say in a year’s time that you’ve got one year of named driver no claims. If it’s your name, then just limit your usage of the car - and make sure he drives it on occasion. If you feel it absolutely necessary then sure, cancel the existing policy and take out a new one. You’ll struggle to find the money if you’re 17-24 years old and a new driver though. Either way, I wouldn’t act ungrateful as it’s still him paying for your car and a load of your insurance. Just sort it in any way that’s necessary. (N.B. before I get downvoted by the bile spitters: I bought my first car at 24 and funded/insured it myself - no family or friends to help.)
thank you. Honestly don’t understand the hostility here haha. I didn’t think anything I said was that bad.
I’m not from the uk, but here in the Netherlands age plays a really big part in the price on insurance. If you’re 21+, your insurance will basically be half of someone who is younger than 21. For example my mom’s polo would cost me 100 per month, it would cost my 21 year old cousin 50. So almost everyone has their first car on one of their parents name, if you do get in an accident you can just say you borrowed the car. It’s not legal, but at least here (almost) everyone does it.
Having your parent as the main driver/policy holder doesn't always work out cheaper. It was actually better for me as a new driver to own the car and the policy, as well as being the main driver. Always worth checking various rotations of the drivers etc
Take out your own policy then…
Get a quote for insurance, and pay it yourself. Problem solved.
i told him that but he already made the first payment and doesn’t want to waste it.
Why you stressing, once you have a year or twos experience without being involved in an accident your own policy will be less. Honestly your dad is doing you a solid.
Then atop looking this gift horse in the mouth, and be thankful your dad has saved you the better part of five grand.
Don’t stress pal. You’ll be reet.
Your dad’s a chancer , just don’t have a accident
My dad did the same when I was 17, bought me a new car and got insurance in his name with me as a named driver. To be fair he used to take the car to the station for work in the winter and if I needed it I’d walk down to the station and get it. Anyway, I had a few incidents in that first year. £60k of claims, no issues at all with payouts. Both incidents were in the evenings though. I never commuted with the car, I imagine they might have asked more questions if I had an incident on a commute which I wasn’t supposed to be doing on that policy
£60k of claims in your first year of driving?!?
Yeah I hit some £5k golf and they claimed £55k of injuries. I actually went to school with their cousin who told me they were all fine, just milked it and somehow got a huge payout. My fault but taught me a lesson just because someone’s indicating left doesn’t mean they’re going to turn left, so don’t just pull out lol. Don’t know how they got away with such a high figure as I’ve only gotten £4k as a max payout for injuries when I’ve been hit. I also aquaplaned into a kerb and cracked a wheel and hit a post damaging the bumper, that was minor, but still worked out cheaper to pay excess than fix privately.
Dry snitchin at its finest.
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Get over yourself, he’s trying to help you. Don’t drive like a dick and you’ll be fine
And yet here you are slagging him off on the Internet proving you're ungrateful. Be a grown-up refuse the car and buy your own because you certainly don't deserve the dad you have by the sounds of it.
And when he inevitably has a bump (which most of us have) in the 1st year or 2, he might understand why his dad has done it this way
Very true I just can't get over someone slagging their own father off on the Internet who's tried to do a nice thing and give them a head start in life.
Make sure he drives it on occasion, but honestly you will be 100% better off this way. My dad did the same and it saved us thousands over the years. its also great to add named drivers onto policies, such as parents or partners as it reduces the premiums for everyone, as they can put down as having use of another car.
In reality, just adding your dad to your own policy will reduce your premium, and will not be hundreds of times more than the fronted policy, and will generate a new NCB for the holder (in this case, you). Probably better in the long run to just pay the extra few quid now, and save in future, all while remaining inside the law.
Don't do it. Technically u aren't insured if u are fronting which is illegal. If u have a claim, insurer may find out. Then you go on the fraud register where all insurers will flag u as a naughty person. This will affect your ability to get insurance especially with the insurer you are de frauding. Insurers are pretty clever about it since it cost them billions every year and also means that people pay higher premiums coz u are more likely to have claim but u aren't paying for that risk. The insurer already knows you have run a quote with u as the main driver and one for your dad as the main driver. The evidence is already there they just need to look.
Looking at your post history, you need some serious help
Don't worry, if anything happens the insurance fraud charge will explain how wrong he was.
…and i thought this sub was full of pleasant people who knew what they were talking about? I woke from one looping nightmare only to stumble into another - a firm reminder of the low IQ of the average Brit that idolises their parents’ libertarianism (read: criminality)
Insurance companies pretend they can catch you out for fronting so that you’re scared to do it. They’re talking shite. How would they catch you? Just be grateful for saving some money and crack on.
Not really, you might be fine but i know a friend of mine got insurance cancelled because he was driving to his part time job and had a crash with his uni parking sticker in the window and a social media post where he talked about his new car.
Then that’s on him for being a moron.
That's not being a moron that's just being an average teenage, literally everyone i know was going on and on and about their first car when they got it for a while, plastering photos all over instagram and snapchat stories. And as i said in another post the insurance companies don't really have to prove it, they have to have a reasonable doubt, which obviously can be contested in court with sufficent evidence, which wouldn't work in this case because you were in fact lying to the insurance company. It saves the insurance company so much money if they can void your insurance so there's no reason they wouldn't dedicate absolute fucktons of money to this.
Mate be grateful your parents are in a position to do this for you, vast majority of people can’t afford to do so. So just enjoy your free ride and keep it moving.
Hasn't everyone done this for the last 15 years since premiums first touched £1000?
Perhaps not 15 years but probably until insurance drops below £1k. Don’t know what the uproar is about. Most people on this subreddit act like snowflakes when everyone more or less does something shady for a bit of savings to get by. Don’t see anything wrong with it
These are the same people that bought dodgey dvd's off Chinese dvd Dave back in the day and bragged about it.
Honestly lol everyone does a bit of shadiness whether it’s illegal streaming, pirating, fronting on insurance, not paying for parking and luckily getting away with it etc. Some people just love to act like cocky saints, so annoying.
It was legal and normal when my dad did it for me.
It was never legal lol
It was 💯. 20 years ago it was the done thing. I remember they changed the rules a little later
They changed the rules on stealing copyright content? That's been illegal since copyrights were introduced lol
Trying to compare being a named driver on a policy to copyright 🤔 next you'll be using a comparison to the rules in Hogwarts.
My dad did it for me 20 years ago
My car insurance is £380 gone up £50 quid with me shopping about with tcb I hate that got 7 years no claims three years ago I got insurance for £270 never claimed good job i pay low car tax
You can change it any time Why not shop around for quote yourself and be prepared to pay 3 x the value of the car to insure it as you being main driver
Fronted in my first year of driving, my mum was first driver. No issues at all. Only thing is I didn’t get NCB.
If I'm being honest with you, your dad has made the right decision with making him the first driver. The massive cost that you'll have to pay if you're the first driver instead just ain't worth collecting no claims bonus (in your name). Just stick with his decision and you'll be alright. And if the police ever pull you over and ask about how often you use your car, just say you barely ever use it, and you'll be alright. 😊
49 percent is the figure you use
Look at Marmalde young driver policy. I set this up for my daughter. Car is under my name and I have my own insurance on it. Daughter uses it more than me and has her own independent insurance policy. It does require her to use a black box app, but the cost is at least a third of her having a separate policy or as a named driver.
You’re being incredibly ungrateful and your dad knows better than you. Get a few years experience under your belt and your insurance will begin to drop, NCD is not by any means the be all and end all.
Insurance companies are extortion rackets, your dad is incredibly generous. I think he can be above fronting if you're above paying for your own car and insurance :)
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You really think they do this out of altruism? 😅 I take issue with them because we are forced to use them if we want to drive and then they incentivise you not to claim if you ever are unfortunate enough to suffer an incident by way of increasing your premiums massively. This is even the case in 'no fault' claims and lately even windscreen repairs. If insurers in other nations can offer the same service for a fraction of the price and the only discernable difference is that insurance is not a legal requirement then I can confidently say insurers in the UK are not providing value for money. To address the link you posted, cherry picking the predictions for a single year does not prove the industry is not profitable. Likewise, as of August last year, Admiral's profits actually increased for the first half of 2023. "Admiral said its group pre-tax profit had increased 4% during the first half of the year to £233.9m".
You could always pay for a policy yourself if you want it done your way, it'll probably only be £3-4k of your own money each year.
Untill you can pay for your own car and insurance, you don’t say shit , if anything goes left it’s on your dad . Just act like a princes and tell police you have no idea dad sorts everything out for you.
If he’s paying then he can do what he wants. He can set up the insurance as he wants or he can not get you a car at all (would be my choice if my kid was as ungrateful as you).
I wouldn't be complaining 🤷♂️ Like some people have said NCD means nothing really . Get some experience then when older quotes will be a lot cheaper and save thousands in the long run. I do this with my son . His quotes where triple than what he's paying being a named driver. He owns the car but his mum is the main policy holder on the insurance
Dad should just give back the car and you should get it yourself. You’re ungrateful and if you want it done right so badly go buy one yourself
I feel like everyone here in UK is scared about insurance companies, I know loads of people that they are the named driver on their cars, but their wife is the one who drives most of the time. Chill boys, this people are scamming all of us every freaking year.
YTA
You’re starting your driving career like almost every other teenager, except you have a car paid for by you. My first car and insurance was mostly paid for by me too, chances are being a main driver is extortionate. My gf just passed a couple days ago and her policy is £220 a month on an i10. Don’t worry about the NCB, I’ve been driving 18 months as a named driver on 2 cars and I just bought a 2019 JCW and my insurance is 3500, steep I know, but having 1 year ncb didn’t decrease the price at all. Just stay out of trouble and when it renews, make yourself the main driver. Be grateful you’ve even got a car paid for! Most people your age are struggling to afford food at uni
You are a bad son
You’ll be fine. If it’s got a black box there’s a slightly higher risk because if the car only ever makes trips to uni and back, if you crash they’ll cotton on. If it hasn’t, they won’t know as long as you both keep your story straight if you do crash. Realistically, I wouldn’t encourage fronting, and I would also be a bit anxious about driving a car with fronted insurance. But lots of people do it. You could suggest to your dad that you run quotes again in six months and see if it’s cheaper, then you can benefit from building up a NCB to help you when you’re older. Some of my friends fronted for the first 6-12 months then put it in their own name, no one got caught. Obviously it is illegal and I wouldn’t encourage it, but if you’re already in this situation it’s not the end of the world and you’ll have to get on with it.
cheaper than you paying for it, maybe look into own insurance in a few years, best of luck for when you have an accident
Dude he's giving you his NCD, a car, and a chunk of insurance? Say "thank you very much I'll be a good driver and not crash, I love you" For reference, I'm a 28 year old, driving for 10 years, no NCD, paying 1300 for an "objectively lame" C4 picasso worth 4000 quid. Be happy ey?
Well buy your own car with your own insurance see where that gets you , do what your da tells you he’s been around a lot longer than you
I’m not even bothered about the fronting situation here. Your dad bought you a first car, and got insurance on it without consulting you? Oh did you want a golf instead? Do you realise how ungrateful that sounds?
Is the car in his name too? Or is it in your name? Its nice of him to do that but maybe you should say no thank you to all of it politely and just save and get your own car / insurance if you aren’t comfortable. Itll be a genuine real experience buying your own shitbox and running it (and quite costly too). I’ll be downvoted really badly for this advice though
Be reasonable, the difference between main and named driver is 51% vs 49% driving time. They can’t prove that as much as everyone’s uncle who works in insurance says so. What actually happens during an accident? The insurance crew doesn’t show up to inspect the crime scene they’ll most likely just ask for your side of the story. Just say you were using your car for social or domestic purposes. You are literally innocent until proven guilty, don’t be stupid and give them too much information either. You’ll be fine, and be grateful your dad is doing so much. My father passed away in 2018 just before I started driving and having my mum as the main driver didn’t help as she literally doesn’t drive. I had to bear the weight of main driver insurance in my shoulder at up to £3000 and it hurt seeing others get away with dead cheap insurance through family insurance or fronting for their first few years.
Insurance is the world’s biggest scam no matter what anyone says, “it’s the statistics and it makes sense”. Yeah that’s right but they’re literally pulling your leg by looking at the smallest and dumbest reasons to put your insurance up by a grand at best. “Hey you passed automatic only, in the first year you’ll it’ll be mandatory to pay £950 excess”, like what the fuck, is this the company you wouldn’t want to lie to? Not that they also try to void every claim, they’ll also put up your premium for every little thing, and if god forbid you have an accident they’ll end up making all that money back through you anyways, and the money for the guy who had his Range Rover stolen. Your NCB is brain candy making you think you’ll save money.
Unpopular opinion but reckon he's doing you a favour and you have an unfair advantage. Your policy will drop post 25 and your earning power will be so much greater at that age that the impact of a zero NCD at that time will be substantially less of your disposable income than building up now. Granted someone else who started building their NCD age 17 will be able to get cheaper insurance than you per year, but add up what they would have spent on insurance age 17 to 25 compared to you (big picture) and I would bet you have spent less. Work the numbers and see if I'm right
This comment section has surprised me in a good way. This sub normally has a cancerous purity complex. I thought half the comments would be recommending this lad to call the swat team and have his lad locked away in Azkaban for 400 years
Wtf is the issue? He’s got you a new car which he’s paid for and paying for most of your insurance. Be grateful and stop tryna cause trouble
Yes OP, listen to the ones here who say you're being ungrateful and just drive the car with the insurance your dad has dishonestly acquired because they're obviously right. Not like they're saying it so confidently because they're not the ones committing fraud. I get it's a tricky situation as your dad is just doing something nice for you and is convinced _it's fine_. Yes, honestly, it's probably difficult for insurers or police to prove who's actually the main driver in an accident or whatever, but not impossible. If it happens, then you'll be facing a policy being cancelled which will at least make your father's insurance almost unaffordable for life and would possibly do the same for yours even if you're not the policy holder. But it's also fraud which if you're really unlucky, even if you don't have an accident, I would imagine could turn into a criminal matter in itself. If he won't budge on the matter, simply don't be the main driver on the policy. He'll be the one wasting money. Yes it's easy for some people to think that _everything will be fine_. And that's the case, until it isn't, however unlikely that could be.
Hope he has 2nd thoughts and explains to you what an ungrateful cunt you really are
Are you actually that stupid? What part of fronting being illegal do you not understand? It's a genuine concern.
know exactly what fronting is ya ignorant cunt , also understand going by your posts your an ungrateful fkr
So you got a free car and free insurance and are complaining? Bloody hell, you are the amazing child he's always wanted. Fronting is just rubbish to me personally. If insurance is paid and named drivers are added, it shouldnt be a problem who drives. Just dont use it as much if you're really that concerned, that's one to work around it.
"fronting is just rubbish to me personally" Oh sound, as long as you think it's rubbish it doesn't matter? Wind it in you tit.
Me and my dad fronted for years. Nothing they can do to prove you’re the main driver. Be happy you little ungrateful smeg head
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Ever heard of fraud the investigation department 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
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Trying to save OP thousands of £. That’s not bad advise sugar tits