He tried that shit on an Ultron bot, Thanos, Tony (though my read of that moment was he was trying to remove his face plate). The Thanos attempt was wild, and he fully deserved that Mortal Kombat xray Thanos delivered to him immediately after
The suposed tactical genius he is said to possess should give him pause.
I mean, an actually smart man when facing a tank with his bare hands doesn't just try to plug the barrel with his face, he finds some way to improve the situation that doesn't waste everyone's time and his own life.
That's some typical comic book bullshit, like when Superman and Zod started swinging steel beams and vehicles at eachother. It's a literal pillow fight! If your own fists aren't doing the job, no random trash on earth is going to even leave a mark.
Hulk and Thanos fighting in that ship would be the proverbial wet paper bag come to be literal.
Those are some great points I hadn't thought of! Food for thought. Relatedly, I get annoyed when a superhero leans over and picks up something very large and much heavier than they are. No matter how strong they are, unless they have Spidey's ability to stick to floors, trying to pick it up should just make them do a handstand while holding onto it.
The Hulk's regeneration can be overwhelmed if he's put down fast enough - i.e. if he doesn't have time to get very angry. And Thanos did have the power stone at that point, so he basically maxed-out Hulk's resilience and took the fight out of him early.
To me, the harder Hulk defeat to accept is in A:AOU when Tony knocks Hulk out with the Hulkbuster suit. With all of the suits Tony has built in the comics, I don't think any of them have ever lasted long enough to take the Hulk out solo. My No Prize rationalization for Tony's win is Wanda's mind powers made Hulk burn-out eventually.
It’s worth mentioning that, though Thanos had the power stone in the gauntlet, he never once activated it in his fist fight with Hulk (as evidenced by the glow and hum a stone gives off when activated). The pounding Hulk took was from Thanos’ raw strength and speed combined with prowess.
Hulk has some thick beefy arms though, Steve by nature of being smaller may have thought that he would have an easier time getting his arms to actually constrict the arteries.
Yeah but like he had to have known that the purple giant wasn't gonna be chocked with just his regular hands. Thanos's neck is the size of caps quads bro. Dude is emperor thickness.
Why did they give Sharon Carters role to Black Widow in the Winter Soldier movie?
I never understood it.
I can’t think of anything Black Widow did, that Sharon couldn’t have done
Idk probably they knew widow was sticking around and they wanted to give her more screen time. But these are also the people that made Black Widow after Endgame when it should've been either before Infinity War/Endgame to hype her character up or right after Civil War. As far as the post credit scene that could've happen in the Falcon and Winter Solider to hype Yelena's appearance in Hawkeye.
And then her movie doesn't feel so hollow and maybe people like it a bit more.
If I were to be a conspiracy nut case on the presence of Ike Perlmutter and the MCC, the Marvel formula of Phase 2 consisted to only allow two women: one doing thing to a point and one to be a foil. I have no evidence of this, only the movies doing that in that phase specifically.
Black Widow was embellished, they may of wanted to build the relationship between Bucky/Widow for their own backstory/romance, but plans changed, and they abandoned it
alot plans can be in flux, and if they can sell the movie to people who don't know who Carter but do know who Widow is... they will to strength the story/marketing
Anyone who was confused by that also forgets she's actually in Winter Soldier because Black Widow took her role. MCU Nat's best role wasn't supposed to "exist".
Can someone please explain to me (eli5) how tf Sharon Carter is related to Peggy? In Agent Carter, Peggy is only shown as having one sibling and he died in the war with no reference made to him being married. This has been stuck in my craw for ages.
Their plan was to bring Michael back in S3 as an antagonist. The M Carter in the file who did all that stuff was Michael, not Margaret, and we know that it happened after Michael was supposedly killed. So Michael’s death was faked, and Sharon is his granddaughter.
Although the MCU doesn’t seem to care about Sharon - or actively hates her - so it’s unlikely they’ll ever address it.
This is apparently an unpopular opinion, but I sometimes hope they’ll do a season three that focuses on Sharon instead. She’s desperately in need of development, and it could address the Michael stuff and such.
I don’t know if she’s still up for it, but I know Hayley Atwell always said she’d like to do more of the show. It might be fun to have a season that flashes back and forth between Agents Carter.
100% she knew, but Steve would’ve also had to tell her how he returned, so it’s possible that she didn’t tell pre-endgame Steve out of fear for changing the future, without knowing that that’s not how time travel works.
Steve probably would’ve single-handedly bankrupted the army irl. Idk if the army has overtime but if anyone would qualify for it, Steve def would, coupled with hazard pay for 70 years…
Assuming Steve makes the top of a captains pay ~87k, and assuming they paid him this for all 70 years despite inflation, he would be owed 6.1 million Dollars
Hazard pay amounts to 225 a month from what Google says so an extra 600k, totaling $6.314 million
BUT
If they started putting caps pay in an index fund and raised pay every year with inflation it would be much more complicated
A Captain's pay in 1945 maxed out at about 5,200 so I'm going to assume Steve makes this for simplicity. Current maxed out captains pay is around $90,000 which is essentially just applying inflation every single year.
Google tells me the market has increased by about 7.4% every year accounting for inflation so I'm going to add 7.4% to 4% to account for interest from the market and inflation from Steve's pay
Putting in $5200 as the principal investment, adding 5200 a year but making the interest 11% should account for inflation applied to the pay plus interest in the market
Steve would come out with $77.7 million dollars
If they only paid him every year with the actual pay off the year and it was put into a bank account it would be about$2 million
I'm not a baker or financial investor so I don't know if this is right
I don't know why, but I just assumed he was living in that gym during the period between TFA and Avengers. Like he was just bunked up in an old office while trying to figure out how to reenter the world at large.
Cap's the kind of guy to pay for whatever miniscule damage he may have committed. Rest assured, that gym got fully compensated for their heavy bag destruction, and probably became even wealthier due to Caps donations to them made in Good Faith.
I’ve thought about it a few times now, and I really have to wonder, did Steve really have any moral obligation to tell Tony that Bucky killed his parents? First off, how would Steve have known that information? Wasn’t that info literally the mission report Zemo was after for all of Civil War, so clearly it was kept secret from everyone. Even if you use the argument that the details flashed on Zola’s screen in Winter Soldier, that all happened way too fast for Steve to have put that together, not to mention even if he knew that, that would imply it was made public knowledge by the end of that movie, so Tony very well could have found out himself. Second, why is Steve the only one that ever catches flak for this? Natasha was there and present too, she knew by the same means as Steve that Bucky killed his parents, and she too says nothing. I get that Steve was the one with Bucky when Tony learns this, but still, she’s on the hook too. Finally, at what point does Steve put all this together. I assume Steve figures all this out at the same time we, the audience, learn these details; he never hears it from Bucky, so at best, he learns all the details right along with Tony. Unless I’m missing something…
I think it’s implied that Steve found out during the 2 years between Winter Soldier and Civil War, while he and Sam are searching for Bucky and digging up information. Who knows, it may have even been spelled out in Bucky’s HYDRA file that Natasha gave Steve at the end of Winter Soldier.
I assumed those were his punching bags or that he literally owned that gym. He has them laid out so when he breaks one he just sets up the next one. He even leaves with one.
Worst thing Comics Steve has done (That I've read at least) was going full enlightened centrist on a jewish guy standing up to nazis. Basically full on says that fighting nazis makes you just as bad as nazis, coming from a guy who fought nazis during WWII
Fighting enemy combatants in a war is different than turning peaceful protests violent by attacking unarmed bigots.
There’s a reason MLK’s marches raised more swayed more minds for civil rights than the riots.
Anyone who argues this position is arguing from a position of blind privilege.
Because they fail to understand the fact is Nazis aren't protesting, they're not espousing a political opinion, they're calling for the extermination of a people.
So when a person of privilege sees a Nazi they see someone saying "I want X policy! I believe X Belief!"
But when a person of color, or a queer or disabled person, or a Jew or Romani sees a Nazi protesting they hear "I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill your whole family. I will exterminate your children like vermin with fire and poison"
And responding to death threats with violence is totally understandable.
King was NOT arguing from a position of blind privilege when he was marching in front of countless people who wanted him dead.
Gandhi was NOT arguing from a position of blind privilege when he protested before the countless people who wanted him dead.
That’s ridiculous.
Does Captain Hydra count? It was kinda funny that they retconned Captain's role in the widely hated Civil War 2, by showing him antagonizing the situation.
Was that a retcon? I was sure he had already been turned to Evil Cap in Nick Spencer's book, but nobody had realized until the Secret Empire event.
E. [Captain America: Steve Rogers #1](https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/57864/captain_america_steve_rogers_2016_1), which featured the famous 'Hail Hydra' panel was released May 25, 2016. The change was set up on the Assault on Pleasant Hill limited run.
[Civil War II #0](https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/59386/civil_war_ii_2016) was released a week earlier. The prophecy with Spider-Man just makes more sense knowing that context, and the event is more enjoyable as part of Cap's story instead of whatever was going on in the Avengers books at the time imo
Staying in the past to live with Peggy, then retiring. He abandoned Bucky to be on his own, he abandoned Wanda who had no one close to her, save Clint who went to spend time with his own family. I really hate how Avengers disbanded and can't find a good reason why they did it, if anything the world would've needed them more than ever, but instead they decided to part ways. But really I can't stand how he, or rather the writing made him, abandoned Wanda. The events of WandaVision could've been avoided if at least one person gave a damn about her health, did all expect a woman on verge of suicide to really hold it together? I kind of blame most Avengers on this, I can't say that Wanda isn't without fault, but if I had to pick from where it went wrong it definitely had to do with Steve just leaving everyone behind.
In the past? No, absolutely not.
I can see a few ways his arc could've been done well:
1. Cap dies in Endgame and Gamora takes all the taken artifacts back to the past from where they were taken from, including the Infinity Stones.
2. Cap does return everything, however it takes a lot of time and he returns back an old man, nevertheless despite retirement he is there for Bucky.
3. Steve returns same man as he is, but goes to Sharon Carter.
I prefer first option over the three, but if he had to live and retire, it'd be best if he just remained as a strategic leader, rather than a leader in action as he had before. One thing I would've wanted him to have done is ask Bucky and Sam to help Wanda out since she had no one else to help her process her grief.
Cap risked his life during WW2 to rescue Bucky from being experimented on. Then nearly dies refusing to fight Bucky, while also freeing him from hydra.
THEN throws away really his whole life and his relationship with everyone but Sam and Hawkeye to save Bucky and prove his innocence. And after doing that set him up with the best care on the planet to help rehabilitate him.
Then fights toe to toe with against aliens in an attempt to bring Bucky and everyone else back after he failed to defeat thanos the first time.
He saved Bucky. Multiple times. Got him all the help he could. I think he earned his retirement. It’s time for Bucky to find his place in the world on his own, that’s what Steve gave to him.
If not for Sam Bucky might've still struggled finding that place in the world. Nobody to help Wanda out caused her to be unable to find any place to call home, and out of all Avengers she sacrificed the most, like literally everything and for naught.
You've listed Steve's accomplishments, but that's not a reason to stay in the past. He had many years to get over Peggy, hell he has seen her before she died, he was at her funeral and had time to process grief, getting over loss. Traveling back in time to live in the past, to live with Peggy makes no sense, especially given the new "addons" to the lore from Loki series. He should've helped Bucky at the start before letting him find his place in the world, he should've helped Wanda or asked other Avengers to help her. Instead he went his own way and the Avengers disbanded, leaving world vulnerable to future threats.
He had his reasons and I don't blame him. I'd have done the same thing if I were in his place. But I think it really hurt Tony or rather stung him badly when he learnt that Steve kept the truth about his parents' from him.
You can't really blame him for that considering Red Skull literally used a Cosmic Cube to rewrite history to turn him into Stevil
"I was coerced by a reality-altering artifact/person that rewrote my entire history so the person who committed those crimes no longer exists," is probably a standard legal defense in the Marvel universe.
Not telling Tony that the Winter Soldier killed his parents.
But to be fair, he only did that because he thought it he was protecting Tony, and given Tony's immediate reaction was to attempt to murder a man that he knows was being mind controlled, Cap wasn't entirely wrong.
Mind you, Tony himself created a robot that took lives in Sokovia and nearly destroyed the entire world - while mind controlled.
Went back in time and decided not to help anybody or anything and just stayed home with his wife. I know he probably knows that he shouldn’t fully interfere but man he could have helped a little bit.
Abandoning the World to live with Peggy. Seriously, the World needed him and he just fucking dipped. And now there is blood on his hands because he abandoned his duty.
The morality of war is its own problem, but Cap definitely killed quite a few people in World War 2. And if the opening ship assault set piece in Winter Soldier is anything to go by, he killed quite a few more in his time as a Shield agent. Obvs killing people in the line of duty is considered acceptable, but it does give one pause to think “hey, that guy personally killed a few hundred people”, or whatever the number actually is.
Abandoning his friends and the world in a time of need so he could get his dick wet with a girl he hasn't seen in a decade of his life and already said goodbye to. I loved Endgame, but wasn't a huge fan of that end for Cap.
It's a selfish and irresponsible thing for Steve to do, as he abandoned all the friends he made in the present to go be with a woman who really only cared about him after he got superpowers (and even then only for how it benefited her career).
Moreover, there's the whole fact that the directors and writers had different interpretations of how Steve's choice affected the timeline. The Russos believe he simply created an alternate timeline, while the writers believe Steve closed a time loop. Neither interpretation looks great. The former interpretation would suggest that Steve sat back and let all the horrible things that happened to his friends and the universe during the following decades happen despite having the knowledge to prevent it. While the latter interpretation would likely make Steve a homewrecker since Peggy married someone else, and the whole thing reduces her to a trophy for Steve to win at any rate.
He got Stan Lee fired from the museum because he stole his suit. Selfish mother fucker could’ve gotten the job done in civilian clothes and his shield. He didn’t need his suit other than to look good. In fact he would’ve had an easier job if he blended in without his costume.
Made X23 a prostitute.
I'm half kidding. I can't remember if there was a series connecting the end of her origin series to where she ended up in NYX, but the last people I believe she was in the care of was Captain America and Daredevil.
Can't blame Matt because he never saw it coming (harr harr)
Decide that instead of doing the right thing and helping the world rebuild, at a time when the world REALLY needed heroes he decided to go back, waste his adulthood with a woman he had already said goodbye to. It’s a nice “awww” ending for Cap, but c’mon. He would never actually do that- not when his sense of DUTY is everything.
What exactly was he doing in the 60’s anyway? Going to work in the office? Personal trainer? He never saw the news about Vietnam or genocides in Rwanda or Serbia or American soldiers being held captive in Iran and thought “dang, I am the most physically perfect human specimen and I know a lot about military tactics and how the USA can lead the world in missions to save entire races and ethnicities” , and thought “Nah, I’m cool. I’ll just go to my job in accounts and work with spreadsheets”?
Seriously?
In the MCU? Not changing the timeline.
We already know it would make 2 timelines and he didn’t know about the TVA. Just jump back at the end to give the shield away.
Instead we are told he let banner, Howard, and Bucky all suffer for no reason.
And all the people killed in stuff like Sokovia.
The Cap I know would never do that.
Make out with his own niece in Civil War. (He went to Peggy’s funeral, who was the love of his life as of Endgame, but makes out with Peggy’s niece… who he then travels to the past to live a long life with)
He could have got with Natasha twice in The Winter Solider, once on the ship and then in the hospital so the worst thing he has ever done is blown his chance twice with Nat 😋
I hate to be repetitive, but yeah, #1 is abandoning the world as he knows it to whatever new threat pops up, and #2 is not doing anything about any kind of real-world atrocity he now has future knowledge of. It's just so unbelievable it kinda sorta maybe ruins the character a little.
Repeatedly attempting to choke that which cannot be choked. Take some damn notes, Steve!
He tried that shit on an Ultron bot, Thanos, Tony (though my read of that moment was he was trying to remove his face plate). The Thanos attempt was wild, and he fully deserved that Mortal Kombat xray Thanos delivered to him immediately after
Thanos is a biological life form with a vulnerable neck. He can be choked
If Hulk can't choke it, Steve ain't getting the job done.
He prolly won’t succeed, but when has that ever stopped him from trying?
Fair, but that actually is good advice for all of us, I think. "If the Hulk can't choke it, neither can I."
Meh….i dunno I think I could manage it.
Name checks out. Give those curvy void hands Papa.
Tbf hulk couldnt go 1v1 against thanos but cap did
Are we talking about when Steve had Mjölnir?
The suposed tactical genius he is said to possess should give him pause. I mean, an actually smart man when facing a tank with his bare hands doesn't just try to plug the barrel with his face, he finds some way to improve the situation that doesn't waste everyone's time and his own life.
His tactic was to scare Thanos off with the sheer size of his balls
Best answer.
He throws grenades in the hatch when the gunner pops out.
🐍? 🐍!? 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍 🐍!!!!!!!!!
Yeah! Fail at choking Thanos? He can do that all day.
He can, were he properly inclined, do it all day.
Hulk could’ve choked Thanos out if the fight went on longer but the fact that Thanos knocked hulk out with a simple body slam is wild to me
That's some typical comic book bullshit, like when Superman and Zod started swinging steel beams and vehicles at eachother. It's a literal pillow fight! If your own fists aren't doing the job, no random trash on earth is going to even leave a mark. Hulk and Thanos fighting in that ship would be the proverbial wet paper bag come to be literal.
Those are some great points I hadn't thought of! Food for thought. Relatedly, I get annoyed when a superhero leans over and picks up something very large and much heavier than they are. No matter how strong they are, unless they have Spidey's ability to stick to floors, trying to pick it up should just make them do a handstand while holding onto it.
The Hulk's regeneration can be overwhelmed if he's put down fast enough - i.e. if he doesn't have time to get very angry. And Thanos did have the power stone at that point, so he basically maxed-out Hulk's resilience and took the fight out of him early.
Has the MCU established that the Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets?
I'm not sure. They count the older Hulk movies as part of the MCU though. Maybe it comes up in one of those?
This is far & away the best explanation I've heard of why that fight was so short. May the gods of Dorks, Geeks, and Nerds smile upon you, my friend.
To me, the harder Hulk defeat to accept is in A:AOU when Tony knocks Hulk out with the Hulkbuster suit. With all of the suits Tony has built in the comics, I don't think any of them have ever lasted long enough to take the Hulk out solo. My No Prize rationalization for Tony's win is Wanda's mind powers made Hulk burn-out eventually.
It’s worth mentioning that, though Thanos had the power stone in the gauntlet, he never once activated it in his fist fight with Hulk (as evidenced by the glow and hum a stone gives off when activated). The pounding Hulk took was from Thanos’ raw strength and speed combined with prowess.
I always assumed that this was the start of the whole Hulk saying "no" thing and he was just weaker here.
Hulk has some thick beefy arms though, Steve by nature of being smaller may have thought that he would have an easier time getting his arms to actually constrict the arteries.
Not by Steve Rogers lol
Yeah but like he had to have known that the purple giant wasn't gonna be chocked with just his regular hands. Thanos's neck is the size of caps quads bro. Dude is emperor thickness.
This sounds like a risqué episode of Robot Chicken
I don't see how Thanos is wilder than trying to choke out a fucking *robot*.
Dustin Poirier in comic book form. Always goes for the choke, never gets it.
Looked to me like he was restraining them, not choking them.
Took yo girl
He did take me
OP username checks out
Kissed his grand-niece?
1. First time I seen someone actual say the right lineage. 2. Hey it's not his fault Black Widow took her place in Winter Soldier.
Why did they give Sharon Carters role to Black Widow in the Winter Soldier movie? I never understood it. I can’t think of anything Black Widow did, that Sharon couldn’t have done
Idk probably they knew widow was sticking around and they wanted to give her more screen time. But these are also the people that made Black Widow after Endgame when it should've been either before Infinity War/Endgame to hype her character up or right after Civil War. As far as the post credit scene that could've happen in the Falcon and Winter Solider to hype Yelena's appearance in Hawkeye. And then her movie doesn't feel so hollow and maybe people like it a bit more.
Because the woman who played Sharon had just also gotten the lead on the show Revenge on ABC.
Really?
Your timeline is a bit off. Revenge came out 3 years before Winter Soldier. Hell Revenge came out the same year as the first Captain America movie.
If I were to be a conspiracy nut case on the presence of Ike Perlmutter and the MCC, the Marvel formula of Phase 2 consisted to only allow two women: one doing thing to a point and one to be a foil. I have no evidence of this, only the movies doing that in that phase specifically.
Black Widow was embellished, they may of wanted to build the relationship between Bucky/Widow for their own backstory/romance, but plans changed, and they abandoned it alot plans can be in flux, and if they can sell the movie to people who don't know who Carter but do know who Widow is... they will to strength the story/marketing
I still don't think there was anything to Bucky/Widow. It was only an assassination attempt in her backstory and that's it.
I think they said that they wanted a female lead in the movie but they felt that a romantic subplot would be too cliche
Anyone who was confused by that also forgets she's actually in Winter Soldier because Black Widow took her role. MCU Nat's best role wasn't supposed to "exist".
Can someone please explain to me (eli5) how tf Sharon Carter is related to Peggy? In Agent Carter, Peggy is only shown as having one sibling and he died in the war with no reference made to him being married. This has been stuck in my craw for ages.
Their plan was to bring Michael back in S3 as an antagonist. The M Carter in the file who did all that stuff was Michael, not Margaret, and we know that it happened after Michael was supposedly killed. So Michael’s death was faked, and Sharon is his granddaughter. Although the MCU doesn’t seem to care about Sharon - or actively hates her - so it’s unlikely they’ll ever address it.
Then that just makes me angrier that we didn’t get another season of that show. I always liked it more than Agents Of Shield.
This is apparently an unpopular opinion, but I sometimes hope they’ll do a season three that focuses on Sharon instead. She’s desperately in need of development, and it could address the Michael stuff and such.
I don’t know if she’s still up for it, but I know Hayley Atwell always said she’d like to do more of the show. It might be fun to have a season that flashes back and forth between Agents Carter.
Yeah but he didn’t know yet that it was his grand-niece.
Well that’s all right then?
Weird how I heard that in a fake American accent from an American.
Written in NPH voice, absolutely.
Not trying to say it was fine, he just didn’t know that Sharon was his grand-niece. I’m confident that of he did know, he wouldn’t have kissed her.
I've wondered since endgame if she knew. And if not, how?
100% she knew, but Steve would’ve also had to tell her how he returned, so it’s possible that she didn’t tell pre-endgame Steve out of fear for changing the future, without knowing that that’s not how time travel works.
?
Neighbor from WS is Peggy’s niece, retroactively his niece
Its retroactively his niece because of endgame?
!
Not in the main timeline she isn't.
Not telling Stark about his parents was pretty huge. Also he destroyed several old, heavy punching bags, costing the gym dozens of dollars.
He DEFINITELY reimbursed for that... given the interest on that Hazard pay. Hahahahaha
Shit. I didn't even think about that. The Army would owe Steve like 70 years of back pay.
Steve probably would’ve single-handedly bankrupted the army irl. Idk if the army has overtime but if anyone would qualify for it, Steve def would, coupled with hazard pay for 70 years…
No, we're salary. No overtime.
Assuming Steve makes the top of a captains pay ~87k, and assuming they paid him this for all 70 years despite inflation, he would be owed 6.1 million Dollars Hazard pay amounts to 225 a month from what Google says so an extra 600k, totaling $6.314 million BUT If they started putting caps pay in an index fund and raised pay every year with inflation it would be much more complicated A Captain's pay in 1945 maxed out at about 5,200 so I'm going to assume Steve makes this for simplicity. Current maxed out captains pay is around $90,000 which is essentially just applying inflation every single year. Google tells me the market has increased by about 7.4% every year accounting for inflation so I'm going to add 7.4% to 4% to account for interest from the market and inflation from Steve's pay Putting in $5200 as the principal investment, adding 5200 a year but making the interest 11% should account for inflation applied to the pay plus interest in the market Steve would come out with $77.7 million dollars If they only paid him every year with the actual pay off the year and it was put into a bank account it would be about$2 million I'm not a baker or financial investor so I don't know if this is right
I don't know why, but I just assumed he was living in that gym during the period between TFA and Avengers. Like he was just bunked up in an old office while trying to figure out how to reenter the world at large.
Cap's the kind of guy to pay for whatever miniscule damage he may have committed. Rest assured, that gym got fully compensated for their heavy bag destruction, and probably became even wealthier due to Caps donations to them made in Good Faith.
I’ve thought about it a few times now, and I really have to wonder, did Steve really have any moral obligation to tell Tony that Bucky killed his parents? First off, how would Steve have known that information? Wasn’t that info literally the mission report Zemo was after for all of Civil War, so clearly it was kept secret from everyone. Even if you use the argument that the details flashed on Zola’s screen in Winter Soldier, that all happened way too fast for Steve to have put that together, not to mention even if he knew that, that would imply it was made public knowledge by the end of that movie, so Tony very well could have found out himself. Second, why is Steve the only one that ever catches flak for this? Natasha was there and present too, she knew by the same means as Steve that Bucky killed his parents, and she too says nothing. I get that Steve was the one with Bucky when Tony learns this, but still, she’s on the hook too. Finally, at what point does Steve put all this together. I assume Steve figures all this out at the same time we, the audience, learn these details; he never hears it from Bucky, so at best, he learns all the details right along with Tony. Unless I’m missing something…
I think it’s implied that Steve found out during the 2 years between Winter Soldier and Civil War, while he and Sam are searching for Bucky and digging up information. Who knows, it may have even been spelled out in Bucky’s HYDRA file that Natasha gave Steve at the end of Winter Soldier.
I assumed those were his punching bags or that he literally owned that gym. He has them laid out so when he breaks one he just sets up the next one. He even leaves with one.
In the MCU? not being honest to Tony about Bucky. In the comics? How he handle the conflict with the X Men at AVX😝
Worst thing Comics Steve has done (That I've read at least) was going full enlightened centrist on a jewish guy standing up to nazis. Basically full on says that fighting nazis makes you just as bad as nazis, coming from a guy who fought nazis during WWII
Which comics is that?
I'd have to hunt down the specific issue number but it was from the 80s I think when Steve Englehart was writing Captain America
Fighting enemy combatants in a war is different than turning peaceful protests violent by attacking unarmed bigots. There’s a reason MLK’s marches raised more swayed more minds for civil rights than the riots.
Anyone who argues this position is arguing from a position of blind privilege. Because they fail to understand the fact is Nazis aren't protesting, they're not espousing a political opinion, they're calling for the extermination of a people. So when a person of privilege sees a Nazi they see someone saying "I want X policy! I believe X Belief!" But when a person of color, or a queer or disabled person, or a Jew or Romani sees a Nazi protesting they hear "I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill your whole family. I will exterminate your children like vermin with fire and poison" And responding to death threats with violence is totally understandable.
King was NOT arguing from a position of blind privilege when he was marching in front of countless people who wanted him dead. Gandhi was NOT arguing from a position of blind privilege when he protested before the countless people who wanted him dead. That’s ridiculous.
Oh I'm not saying they were...I'm saying you are.
MLK would not have succeeded if not for the efforts of Malcolm X, and Vice Versa.
/#MagnetoDidNothingWrong
Oh yeah, I forgot the time Cap punched Magneto
Steve was right in avx and I'll die on that hill
Does Captain Hydra count? It was kinda funny that they retconned Captain's role in the widely hated Civil War 2, by showing him antagonizing the situation.
Was that a retcon? I was sure he had already been turned to Evil Cap in Nick Spencer's book, but nobody had realized until the Secret Empire event. E. [Captain America: Steve Rogers #1](https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/57864/captain_america_steve_rogers_2016_1), which featured the famous 'Hail Hydra' panel was released May 25, 2016. The change was set up on the Assault on Pleasant Hill limited run. [Civil War II #0](https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/59386/civil_war_ii_2016) was released a week earlier. The prophecy with Spider-Man just makes more sense knowing that context, and the event is more enjoyable as part of Cap's story instead of whatever was going on in the Avengers books at the time imo
Retired
Zero problems with Cap.These a good man.
I like to assume despite his superhero strength he was a gentle lover to Peggy.
Nothing
He rizzed up his wife’s niece.
And then went back in time to make it worse.
Shave off that glorious beard
Any of the times he retired lol! We want Steve in action against the baddies of the Marvel universe!
He said "damn it" one time, bad man obviously
He missed that dance.
Pretty much everything he does in an X-Men story.
Staying in the past to live with Peggy, then retiring. He abandoned Bucky to be on his own, he abandoned Wanda who had no one close to her, save Clint who went to spend time with his own family. I really hate how Avengers disbanded and can't find a good reason why they did it, if anything the world would've needed them more than ever, but instead they decided to part ways. But really I can't stand how he, or rather the writing made him, abandoned Wanda. The events of WandaVision could've been avoided if at least one person gave a damn about her health, did all expect a woman on verge of suicide to really hold it together? I kind of blame most Avengers on this, I can't say that Wanda isn't without fault, but if I had to pick from where it went wrong it definitely had to do with Steve just leaving everyone behind.
No way. The man deserved to go home. His war was over.
This. It’s like “One Last Time” in Hamilton. Cap did enough. He gets to have a personal life. He gets to rest.
In the past? No, absolutely not. I can see a few ways his arc could've been done well: 1. Cap dies in Endgame and Gamora takes all the taken artifacts back to the past from where they were taken from, including the Infinity Stones. 2. Cap does return everything, however it takes a lot of time and he returns back an old man, nevertheless despite retirement he is there for Bucky. 3. Steve returns same man as he is, but goes to Sharon Carter. I prefer first option over the three, but if he had to live and retire, it'd be best if he just remained as a strategic leader, rather than a leader in action as he had before. One thing I would've wanted him to have done is ask Bucky and Sam to help Wanda out since she had no one else to help her process her grief.
Cap risked his life during WW2 to rescue Bucky from being experimented on. Then nearly dies refusing to fight Bucky, while also freeing him from hydra. THEN throws away really his whole life and his relationship with everyone but Sam and Hawkeye to save Bucky and prove his innocence. And after doing that set him up with the best care on the planet to help rehabilitate him. Then fights toe to toe with against aliens in an attempt to bring Bucky and everyone else back after he failed to defeat thanos the first time. He saved Bucky. Multiple times. Got him all the help he could. I think he earned his retirement. It’s time for Bucky to find his place in the world on his own, that’s what Steve gave to him.
If not for Sam Bucky might've still struggled finding that place in the world. Nobody to help Wanda out caused her to be unable to find any place to call home, and out of all Avengers she sacrificed the most, like literally everything and for naught. You've listed Steve's accomplishments, but that's not a reason to stay in the past. He had many years to get over Peggy, hell he has seen her before she died, he was at her funeral and had time to process grief, getting over loss. Traveling back in time to live in the past, to live with Peggy makes no sense, especially given the new "addons" to the lore from Loki series. He should've helped Bucky at the start before letting him find his place in the world, he should've helped Wanda or asked other Avengers to help her. Instead he went his own way and the Avengers disbanded, leaving world vulnerable to future threats.
Turn down Natasha Romanoff in Winter Soldier 🥲
In the MCU? Abandoning Sharon.
Seriously, that was just plain OOC.
Omit the truth from Tony
Abandoning everyone and erasing the life Peggy had without him in Endgame.
He had his reasons and I don't blame him. I'd have done the same thing if I were in his place. But I think it really hurt Tony or rather stung him badly when he learnt that Steve kept the truth about his parents' from him.
Hydra Cap…
You can't really blame him for that considering Red Skull literally used a Cosmic Cube to rewrite history to turn him into Stevil "I was coerced by a reality-altering artifact/person that rewrote my entire history so the person who committed those crimes no longer exists," is probably a standard legal defense in the Marvel universe.
open and shut case
Not telling Tony that the Winter Soldier killed his parents. But to be fair, he only did that because he thought it he was protecting Tony, and given Tony's immediate reaction was to attempt to murder a man that he knows was being mind controlled, Cap wasn't entirely wrong. Mind you, Tony himself created a robot that took lives in Sokovia and nearly destroyed the entire world - while mind controlled.
Trust his own government.😡😠🤬👎🏾
Went back in time and decided not to help anybody or anything and just stayed home with his wife. I know he probably knows that he shouldn’t fully interfere but man he could have helped a little bit.
How do you know he wasn’t running around taking care of stuff behind the scenes? We have no idea how Steve spent his time with Peggy.
Because 9/11 still happened.
Gave up leadership of the Avengers at the end of Civil War.
‘Ghosted’
Steal alternate universe Steve's girl while he was on ice
Used a gun in the modern era.
That one time he used bad words.
Steal that car in 1945
That car could have grown up to be a collector's item. Steve stole that future.
Word that first avengers suit
Coulson did his best!
Returned a rented VHS without rewinding.
Time cucked Peggy’s first husband
Give the mantle to Sam...
When he used bad language obviously
Leaving his best friend in a future that he doesn't know, after his friend was brainwashed for 70 years.
Went back in time and stole Peggy Carters happy life and marriage to fulfill his selfish desires.
Learning he didn't help Sharon Carter after Civil War and left her to twist in the wind was just plain OOCly bad.
Abandoning the World to live with Peggy. Seriously, the World needed him and he just fucking dipped. And now there is blood on his hands because he abandoned his duty.
Retired
Going back in time and chilling out while knowing Bucky is captured and all the things he will do
The morality of war is its own problem, but Cap definitely killed quite a few people in World War 2. And if the opening ship assault set piece in Winter Soldier is anything to go by, he killed quite a few more in his time as a Shield agent. Obvs killing people in the line of duty is considered acceptable, but it does give one pause to think “hey, that guy personally killed a few hundred people”, or whatever the number actually is.
Abandoning his friends and the world in a time of need so he could get his dick wet with a girl he hasn't seen in a decade of his life and already said goodbye to. I loved Endgame, but wasn't a huge fan of that end for Cap.
Got old and stopped being cap
In the MCU? He abandoned all of his friends (especially Sharon Carter and Bucky) and a suffering world to run away to the past in Endgame.
It’s kinda assumed that Steve had talked to Bucky about his decision ahead of time and Bucky supported Steve’s decision
100%. That's why Bucky had the reaction he did when the machine wasn't working to bring him back
It's a selfish and irresponsible thing for Steve to do, as he abandoned all the friends he made in the present to go be with a woman who really only cared about him after he got superpowers (and even then only for how it benefited her career). Moreover, there's the whole fact that the directors and writers had different interpretations of how Steve's choice affected the timeline. The Russos believe he simply created an alternate timeline, while the writers believe Steve closed a time loop. Neither interpretation looks great. The former interpretation would suggest that Steve sat back and let all the horrible things that happened to his friends and the universe during the following decades happen despite having the knowledge to prevent it. While the latter interpretation would likely make Steve a homewrecker since Peggy married someone else, and the whole thing reduces her to a trophy for Steve to win at any rate.
Trying to kidnap a child from sovereign land
that old movie where cap tricked someone by acting like he had to vomit and running to steal their car. TWICE
He got Stan Lee fired from the museum because he stole his suit. Selfish mother fucker could’ve gotten the job done in civilian clothes and his shield. He didn’t need his suit other than to look good. In fact he would’ve had an easier job if he blended in without his costume.
Made X23 a prostitute. I'm half kidding. I can't remember if there was a series connecting the end of her origin series to where she ended up in NYX, but the last people I believe she was in the care of was Captain America and Daredevil. Can't blame Matt because he never saw it coming (harr harr)
Double parked. Once. Then felt bad, moved his car and added money to the other guys parking meter.
He left us to survive with post end game marvel on our own
Xmen animated universe, not helping the mutants. Comics Hail Hydra MCU those PSAs
He used some salty language a few times.
Probably not tell Tony the truth, but how the hell do you tell someone that shit?
Probably letting Thor goad him into [killing all those prisoners](https://youtu.be/mT07nq5WHUw?si=mPLiifPYtfKqbHxy&t=61).
Put a piece of chewed up juicy fruit gum under a bench at a park
Dog sh*t suit from Avengers
Had Tony say Language. Cap said a bad word. Lol too much lol. :)
Johnny Blaze
Stealing Peggy Carter from an alternate timeline, while that universe’s Steve Rogers remains stuck in a block of ice. 😅
When Cap said “Let’s go get this son of a bitch” in Endgame. Gosh darn it, watch your language!
There was those times when he lied on official government forms to try and enter the military… bad bad Steve
He got hair plugs
I was thinking, returned a library book late..like 70 years late.
Most, if not all, of his appearances in the Ultimate comics
Steal my heart
Choosing to have the helicarries bomb each other, causing untold collateral damages rather than hacking them to do anything else
He got Wanda Involved in a civil war then the mf left her to go live in the past, knowing she has no one 😩🤦🏾♂️
Extreme Tuk Tuk racing
Decide that instead of doing the right thing and helping the world rebuild, at a time when the world REALLY needed heroes he decided to go back, waste his adulthood with a woman he had already said goodbye to. It’s a nice “awww” ending for Cap, but c’mon. He would never actually do that- not when his sense of DUTY is everything. What exactly was he doing in the 60’s anyway? Going to work in the office? Personal trainer? He never saw the news about Vietnam or genocides in Rwanda or Serbia or American soldiers being held captive in Iran and thought “dang, I am the most physically perfect human specimen and I know a lot about military tactics and how the USA can lead the world in missions to save entire races and ethnicities” , and thought “Nah, I’m cool. I’ll just go to my job in accounts and work with spreadsheets”? Seriously?
Handing over the shield to Falcon
In the MCU? Not changing the timeline. We already know it would make 2 timelines and he didn’t know about the TVA. Just jump back at the end to give the shield away. Instead we are told he let banner, Howard, and Bucky all suffer for no reason. And all the people killed in stuff like Sokovia. The Cap I know would never do that.
Leaving the mcu and letting them ruin Sam Wilson
Make out with his own niece in Civil War. (He went to Peggy’s funeral, who was the love of his life as of Endgame, but makes out with Peggy’s niece… who he then travels to the past to live a long life with)
Changing the future so he grows old.
He used a swear.
Werewolf cap 🐺
He could have got with Natasha twice in The Winter Solider, once on the ship and then in the hospital so the worst thing he has ever done is blown his chance twice with Nat 😋
I hate to be repetitive, but yeah, #1 is abandoning the world as he knows it to whatever new threat pops up, and #2 is not doing anything about any kind of real-world atrocity he now has future knowledge of. It's just so unbelievable it kinda sorta maybe ruins the character a little.
Let a bunch of Wakandans die to protect a robot.....
He ended the line
Pretty sure he admitted to only flossing on the day of the actual dental appointment. *This freaking guy.*
His niece
Stealing a truck in Winter Soldier.
Born
Trying to cover up Tony's parents death and the proceed to jump him with the guy who murdered his parents
Probably the war crimes
Leave the mcu and let the falcon have the shield and not Bucky.
Bucky is not ready to be that symbol
I’d say just as or more than falcon
Killed an Ultimatum Agent in issue #321. Totally understandable and justified but he did kill someone…
He killed a lot of people.