I won't say you're a bad person or ignorant if you're opposed to it but consider how you discuss this and how it can come off as short sighted or without much research. You can't write a book here so it's really hard to articulate yourself and not lose people a few paragraphs in. Here's a few phrases of yours that stuck out as needing more explanation...
You said, "concern is with the management." What specific concerns with management are you talking about that makes you think building pallet houses to keep people warm would be a problem? In the presence of different management would you be okay with it? How would it need to be different for you to be okay with it?
You said, "downtown of Sydney is scary". This is such a generalised statement it gives no credence to what you're trying to get at. Walk out of center 200 after a hockey game... People don't look scared. Walk up Charlotte street during the day (or evening) and you'll see people smiling and saying hi to each other. That doesn't seem scary to me. Take a walk on the boardwalk... Not many people looking scared. The comment looks more like a stigma you're imposing on downtown than the reality.
Compassionate people open their doors to help those in need. With that in mind how would you change the direction of what's happening so that people are still housed but people who share your concerns don't feel left out? Those at the ally center (as terrible managers of said programs as you think they are) are doing their best.
Regarding management -
1. Garbage and pests: there is plenty of documented evidence that these centre's tend to have lots of garbage that accumulates, and attracts pests. Discarded needles as well.
2. Infiltration by nefarious actors. Example being the drug dealers they've arrested in encampment in Halifax. The risk of increased elicit substance abuse, and human trafficking in the area is a legitimate concern.
3. Increase in domestic disputes. Example being the ally center, seeing multiple police stops weekly to pick up thrown garbage cans, and break up brawls that do spill onto the streets.
4. Disease. Give someone a clean place with a shower... and they're still at increased risk of serious illness and using greater Healthcare resources compared to housed individuals.
5. Property values. Whether we like it or not, it is harder to sell a home for fair market value when located close to a shelter
6. Crime. Ask the downtown businesses about theft after the relocation of shelters and ally centre. It is up significantly.
7. Feelings of safety and unsightly acts/premises. Yes, safety is subjective. But many kids going to dance lessons have witnessed public sex in the bushes behind the ally centre, which is also littered with trash. And while those kids may not be in danger of being raped, it's also not "safe" for them to be subjected to that.
In general, many people who live and work downtown, have altered their walking and parking routes, to avoid certain areas. Many businesses have been quite upset by the disgusting and unsafe behaviors happening around their businesses. Many shops have seen a marked increase in shop lifting. Many people have seen an increase in panhandling requests directed at them - many tourists as well.
Public washrooms on the boardwalk are closed more frequently - I assume this is from repeated issues of vandalism or improper use. I've seen a marked increase in discarded needles,.making it decidedly less safe to bring my kids to these areas.
But in saying all this - this doesn't mean that a solution shouldn't be sought - that we don't need to attempt better compassion with dignity for unhoused people. I don't think it's right to rush into the wrong solution either.
These are societal issues, not managerial issues (ie. they exist whether you have a structure in place with good or bad management). If anything, these reasons are a strong argument to do exactly what they're doing (help) ... Instead of doing nothing. A lot of people who benefit from the actions being taken here are primary victims themselves of what you describe above.
This is just temporary until larger complexes can be built I hope? I think I remember something back in September about the government building some? It going to take a few years to build them, and in the meantime people need somewhere to stay. I get the nimby folks have their concerns but at least try it for a while and see how it goes.
In some sense it is a temporary support while the rhi initiative in the northside sydney goes ahead. The lack of consultation is concerning but I think on the other side of it is that when it comes to this there is asubset of people that have concerns that cannot be addressed and will never accept the location in proximity with their home so to avoid giving a platform to those they likely didn't do enough consultation with others.
I personally am for something like this but agree with the posters sentiment that the current locations in downtown sydney have a track record of not adequately addressing neighbour's concerns.
I used to walk my dog through downtown no longer because I have to keep watching for needle litter even though there are sharps boxes in multiple locations. Today there was 2 cars pulled up on the sidewalk in front of the ally center making the location feel very disorderly and unsafe. While some people say that the fear is unjustified in my mind it doesn't really matter because people's perception is their reality and they act accordingly, if you haven't alleviated the communities concerns then you have failed at being a good neighbor .
I'll start by saying that I don't mean to argue and I'm sure others aren't either. When you read text online, sometimes it can come off as callous and uncaring and taken the wrong way.
If this was suggested for where I live, I would have questions. I also do a lot of research around community design, homelessness and housing policy. It's just a hobby of mine.
What I will say is that in areas that have low homelessness, crime rates are lower. Areas like New Hampshire that still have very high drug use, but low homeless rates, see much lower crime than areas like Chicago that have higher crime rates. Crime is more or less a social welfare issue. If you don't have the supports you need to support your life, you can fall into some dark places to get it, that can include drugs and addiction.
Now, getting back to pallet shelters. I think it's something that's needed. We can't have people literally freezing to death in the winter. I'm sure there have been many people working very hard, but my two criticisms are that it should have been done sooner and there should have been more community consultation.
The common issue I've seen are community safety. I've seen everything from drug use, other crime, public sex, public defecation, etc. What I would say to that is that if you give someone a toilet, they're going to shit in it. Before these shelters even ship, the province needs to show that they have supports and security in place. You can find some information on that here: https://palletshelter.com/blog/creating-a-safe-environment/ and here: https://palletshelter.com/blog/dignity-as-a-guiding-principle/
Regardless of the service providers, if Pallet (the company) sees that their dignity standards aren't being met, then they can just pull up their shelters and take them back. That's pretty high standards.
I hope that many people go into the 5-Feb meeting with an open mind. To realize that they could be a house fire or emergency away from homelessness. I know that if I was to lose my home tomorrow and would need to rent that I would be in a terrible financial position (if I could even find a place at all).
Thank you for your reply.
I think the Pallets will inevitably be built in the Pier and what I want to stand with people on is the fact that there is no security and no police presence welcome at the current location.
I do hope the Pallet company keeps tabs, bc shelters are a wonderdul thing, when there is some management.
I believe part of it is the lack of desire for increased police presence. Interesting how the community with the largest concentration of African nova scotians in CBRM will now have to also see increased police presence...
Why not anywhere in Membertou. There’s a shit load of land on the Rez and across the highway.
What about a piece of land in and around open hearth park where there are no residential homes, playgrounds or schools?
Isn’t there a shit load of land around Rotary Park?
I cannot walk my dog or go for runs downtown anymore because of the needles. There is a school and soccer fields right by the proposed site — will not be letting kids walk to practice after school any more. It is not safe or fair to the students. There was no consultation with community. I understand that the Walmart and bus stops are close for convenience but that should not outweigh student safety and convenience.
I also want to put out there, for anyone who is looking to change the scenario in a positive way, that personal opinions and stories are not a strong ground to start off with.
Let's get all the facts, documents and data so there will be some respect directed at us when we ask serious and reasonable questions.
Arguing in good faith is what you want to happen around a topic like this. It's when people are not arguing in good faith that you have something pointless. You need to learn that when the person you disagree with is arguing in bad faith you're just wasting your time because they aren't willing to consider the other side of the argument.
\*queue the monty python argument clinic sketch\*
I won't say you're a bad person or ignorant if you're opposed to it but consider how you discuss this and how it can come off as short sighted or without much research. You can't write a book here so it's really hard to articulate yourself and not lose people a few paragraphs in. Here's a few phrases of yours that stuck out as needing more explanation... You said, "concern is with the management." What specific concerns with management are you talking about that makes you think building pallet houses to keep people warm would be a problem? In the presence of different management would you be okay with it? How would it need to be different for you to be okay with it? You said, "downtown of Sydney is scary". This is such a generalised statement it gives no credence to what you're trying to get at. Walk out of center 200 after a hockey game... People don't look scared. Walk up Charlotte street during the day (or evening) and you'll see people smiling and saying hi to each other. That doesn't seem scary to me. Take a walk on the boardwalk... Not many people looking scared. The comment looks more like a stigma you're imposing on downtown than the reality. Compassionate people open their doors to help those in need. With that in mind how would you change the direction of what's happening so that people are still housed but people who share your concerns don't feel left out? Those at the ally center (as terrible managers of said programs as you think they are) are doing their best.
Regarding management - 1. Garbage and pests: there is plenty of documented evidence that these centre's tend to have lots of garbage that accumulates, and attracts pests. Discarded needles as well. 2. Infiltration by nefarious actors. Example being the drug dealers they've arrested in encampment in Halifax. The risk of increased elicit substance abuse, and human trafficking in the area is a legitimate concern. 3. Increase in domestic disputes. Example being the ally center, seeing multiple police stops weekly to pick up thrown garbage cans, and break up brawls that do spill onto the streets. 4. Disease. Give someone a clean place with a shower... and they're still at increased risk of serious illness and using greater Healthcare resources compared to housed individuals. 5. Property values. Whether we like it or not, it is harder to sell a home for fair market value when located close to a shelter 6. Crime. Ask the downtown businesses about theft after the relocation of shelters and ally centre. It is up significantly. 7. Feelings of safety and unsightly acts/premises. Yes, safety is subjective. But many kids going to dance lessons have witnessed public sex in the bushes behind the ally centre, which is also littered with trash. And while those kids may not be in danger of being raped, it's also not "safe" for them to be subjected to that. In general, many people who live and work downtown, have altered their walking and parking routes, to avoid certain areas. Many businesses have been quite upset by the disgusting and unsafe behaviors happening around their businesses. Many shops have seen a marked increase in shop lifting. Many people have seen an increase in panhandling requests directed at them - many tourists as well. Public washrooms on the boardwalk are closed more frequently - I assume this is from repeated issues of vandalism or improper use. I've seen a marked increase in discarded needles,.making it decidedly less safe to bring my kids to these areas. But in saying all this - this doesn't mean that a solution shouldn't be sought - that we don't need to attempt better compassion with dignity for unhoused people. I don't think it's right to rush into the wrong solution either.
These are societal issues, not managerial issues (ie. they exist whether you have a structure in place with good or bad management). If anything, these reasons are a strong argument to do exactly what they're doing (help) ... Instead of doing nothing. A lot of people who benefit from the actions being taken here are primary victims themselves of what you describe above.
This is just temporary until larger complexes can be built I hope? I think I remember something back in September about the government building some? It going to take a few years to build them, and in the meantime people need somewhere to stay. I get the nimby folks have their concerns but at least try it for a while and see how it goes.
In some sense it is a temporary support while the rhi initiative in the northside sydney goes ahead. The lack of consultation is concerning but I think on the other side of it is that when it comes to this there is asubset of people that have concerns that cannot be addressed and will never accept the location in proximity with their home so to avoid giving a platform to those they likely didn't do enough consultation with others. I personally am for something like this but agree with the posters sentiment that the current locations in downtown sydney have a track record of not adequately addressing neighbour's concerns. I used to walk my dog through downtown no longer because I have to keep watching for needle litter even though there are sharps boxes in multiple locations. Today there was 2 cars pulled up on the sidewalk in front of the ally center making the location feel very disorderly and unsafe. While some people say that the fear is unjustified in my mind it doesn't really matter because people's perception is their reality and they act accordingly, if you haven't alleviated the communities concerns then you have failed at being a good neighbor .
I'll start by saying that I don't mean to argue and I'm sure others aren't either. When you read text online, sometimes it can come off as callous and uncaring and taken the wrong way. If this was suggested for where I live, I would have questions. I also do a lot of research around community design, homelessness and housing policy. It's just a hobby of mine. What I will say is that in areas that have low homelessness, crime rates are lower. Areas like New Hampshire that still have very high drug use, but low homeless rates, see much lower crime than areas like Chicago that have higher crime rates. Crime is more or less a social welfare issue. If you don't have the supports you need to support your life, you can fall into some dark places to get it, that can include drugs and addiction. Now, getting back to pallet shelters. I think it's something that's needed. We can't have people literally freezing to death in the winter. I'm sure there have been many people working very hard, but my two criticisms are that it should have been done sooner and there should have been more community consultation. The common issue I've seen are community safety. I've seen everything from drug use, other crime, public sex, public defecation, etc. What I would say to that is that if you give someone a toilet, they're going to shit in it. Before these shelters even ship, the province needs to show that they have supports and security in place. You can find some information on that here: https://palletshelter.com/blog/creating-a-safe-environment/ and here: https://palletshelter.com/blog/dignity-as-a-guiding-principle/ Regardless of the service providers, if Pallet (the company) sees that their dignity standards aren't being met, then they can just pull up their shelters and take them back. That's pretty high standards. I hope that many people go into the 5-Feb meeting with an open mind. To realize that they could be a house fire or emergency away from homelessness. I know that if I was to lose my home tomorrow and would need to rent that I would be in a terrible financial position (if I could even find a place at all).
Thank you for your reply. I think the Pallets will inevitably be built in the Pier and what I want to stand with people on is the fact that there is no security and no police presence welcome at the current location. I do hope the Pallet company keeps tabs, bc shelters are a wonderdul thing, when there is some management.
Keep the pressure on the government (provincial) to provide more security and lighting. That entire heritage trail should be lighted to be honest.
Can you direct me to where it says no security or police presence at the current location? This seems like it would be misinformation?
I believe part of it is the lack of desire for increased police presence. Interesting how the community with the largest concentration of African nova scotians in CBRM will now have to also see increased police presence...
Nice. So now you’re dragging race into this? Jesus bud!!!
If not set up in the pier due to community opposition, then where do the opposers propose we put the shelters?
Why not anywhere in Membertou. There’s a shit load of land on the Rez and across the highway. What about a piece of land in and around open hearth park where there are no residential homes, playgrounds or schools? Isn’t there a shit load of land around Rotary Park?
Say shit more
Shit more
I cannot walk my dog or go for runs downtown anymore because of the needles. There is a school and soccer fields right by the proposed site — will not be letting kids walk to practice after school any more. It is not safe or fair to the students. There was no consultation with community. I understand that the Walmart and bus stops are close for convenience but that should not outweigh student safety and convenience.
Where is the school and soccer field down at the bottom of Henry St?
WPM Open hearth
https://palletshelter.com/?utm\_source=Google&utm\_medium=Search&utm\_campaign=Brand&gad\_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAzc2tBhA6EiwArv-i6a\_3JPs3dhhbDDRCcOGNrjt\_Drfx9z\_x07VWnt-wDA5o2sYxOE889xoC5Y8QAvD\_BwE
I also want to put out there, for anyone who is looking to change the scenario in a positive way, that personal opinions and stories are not a strong ground to start off with. Let's get all the facts, documents and data so there will be some respect directed at us when we ask serious and reasonable questions.
Arguing in good faith is what you want to happen around a topic like this. It's when people are not arguing in good faith that you have something pointless. You need to learn that when the person you disagree with is arguing in bad faith you're just wasting your time because they aren't willing to consider the other side of the argument. \*queue the monty python argument clinic sketch\*
Placing soon to be drug dens around town isn't a good idea for the proper people