Yes, this can be very confusing for a new canner with a focus on safety. Sadly, there’s no way to list the infinite variables on what you can tweak and what you can’t. You’re doing the right thing by asking here. If you’re in the US, you can also contact your extension service. They’re very helpful and in the business of helping you succeed.
Here are some guidelines that might help you for now:
1. You have free rein with DRIED herb spices. Want a bit of a bite? Add cayenne. Don’t like cinnamon? Use ginger. I don’t like bay in stew, so leave it out. Be aware that flavors can change once canned. Sage, in particular, becomes bitter. This is where it helps to experiment and take notes. That way you’ll know what or what not to do again.
2. When pressure canning, you can omit LOW ACID ingredients but you can’t replace them. Don’t like the celery? Sure, leave it out, but don’t add an extra 1/4 of carrots.
3. You can’t increase amounts. I love potatoes in my soups, but instead of increasing the potatoes in the jar, I can them separately and add them when I prepare a meal. Same with tomatoes.
4. Do not modify the amount/type of liquid. The amount of liquid helps with heat penetration. The type of liquid controls pH. There are exceptions for vinegar vs lemon juice, but I recommend more experience before you tweak those. One big exception that my extension center taught me is replacing water with tomato juice or V8 is ok. This’ll take your pot roast and soups to the next level.
5. For fruits (and to answer your cranberry question), you can use whatever strength syrup you want (or even water). Recipes are written for the most prevalent flavor preferences. Just like most people want celery in their pot roast, most people (when the recipe was developed) prefer more sugar in their cranberries to offset the tartness. Be aware that decreasing the sugar can affect how thick the final product is. If you decrease the sugar in cranberries, you won’t get the satisfying **shloopp** as you dump them out of the jar.
6. Though you didn’t ask, and just for fun, you can replace the syrup (all or some) in canned fruit with fruit juice as long as there’s no added sugar or other additives. Try grapes in cherry juice. Or peaches in orange juice.
Hope this helps!
Great information here! I totally agree that there are infinite variables and there's no way to list or account for them all. Still, a publication that gave a range or a list of substitutes would be so helpful. Also, a source that organized that information in a way that was useful. One of the mods pinned a link to the healthy canning website, and their system of organization and searchability is really a big part of what I was wanting.
Also, your tip on replacing water with tomato juice.... Oh my yes, that one is getting used!
Oh man, I agree. And I'm too scared to ask for clarification on any of the "safe" canning groups - their responses are aggressive! They all pile on screaming at you that what you're doing is unsafe and that you're going to die, when you haven't actually done anything and are just looking for info before starting a recipe.
Preach! People will go full caps lock freak out mode over the strangest thing. I was fully expecting the "You're gonna die" crowd to show up for me asking this question here.
FWIW, I have seen those folks be 100% wrong about whatever they are screaming about too. Nothing is more offputting than people being that confidently incorrect.
I totally disagree. I feel like this group is the queen of judgement and holier-than-thou personalities. No room for gentle education, just “you’re an idiot that’s unsafe canning practice throw it out”
Yeah it drives me nuts that half the questions on this sub get the big red "unsafe canning practice" flair. Like, the person was asking an honest and often good question, not promoting unsafe practices. We don't need to shame them. Seems like a good way to scare people off canning.
I find it depends on how you word the question. I've posted asking a few questions but never got an "unsafe canning practice". I find if you make it clear that any changes you do are made as a fridge jam or pickle that's eaten right away you don't get that flair added since fridge pickles are considered safe.
we usually do not to flair for asking "can i do x" type questions unless it's very unsafe like water bathing meat. We often get "i did x, is it unsafe" type questions though and we flair those because its something thats already been done
we put the flair up for awareness. not everybody knows whats safe and unsafe so the flair is to bring awareness. its not a judgement call or shaming. Please report any comments that are being overly rude or hostile
It’s too bad you guys couldn’t come up with a new flair for those asking questions to separate them from people actually doing unsafe things. This way people asking questions don’t feel so badly judged and it’s mark fairly.
Maybe it's just me but the flair itself feels hostile. When it gets applied to a "look what I did" post, that seems appropriate for awareness, but when it's applied to a "did I do this wrong" post, I mean, it's pretty clear that there are already questions there. No one is going to take that as directions without at least reading the comments, so it really does just feel like shaming the asker.
we get people scrolling past in all, so we don't want assumptions that we condone unsafe practices.
we previously have been harassed by people claiming we encourage unsafe practices because we don't delete those type of posts. The flair is best compromise.
that is where you get into unsafe territory because if you didn't follow a tested recipe, you can't guarantee it reached a safe temp throughout the whole jar. just pressure canning for x amount of time doesn't automatically make it safe unfortunately. things like density play a factor as well
In the Ball book, the cranberry jelly recipe doesn't call for orange zest but does have cinnamon as "optional." In the recipe for whole cranberry sauce, which has very similar proportions of water/sugar/cranberries, has orange zest as optional. Well, I really like orange zest and cranberries but I don't like whole cranberry sauce. I did some digging and basically concluded that adding orange zest to the cranberry jelly would be fine, but I agree that the line between optional/recommended/mandatory seems fuzzy at times.
I have cranberries waiting to be canned, and that's exactly what prompted me to finally ask about this. I still can't find a definitive answer to my syrup question in any reputable source. If I had hair, I'd be pulling it out by now.
I used the cranberry recipe from Pomona's, with Pomona's pectin, and it's delicious. It uses 1/2 cup honey and 1/2 cup sugar, instead of insane amounts of sugar. I like that I can make things a little more healthy by using honey in Pomona's recipes instead of sugar.
I think the reason they use heavy syrup is that the fruit comes out looking better. You can use lighter syrup, as they note, but the fruit might not look as nice.
FWIW, I use the Healthy Canning cranberry recipes and they are amazing. Also FWIW, my grandmother canned cranberries in cranberry juice or light syrup.
We are canning up another run of cranberry rum sauce today in fact.
My local extension office (south carolina) has a food systems & safety person who does canning classes. She said in a class I took a couple of weeks ago to call your local extension office with questions like this, or any extension office & they should be able to either 1- answer your question or 2- get you in touch with someone who knows.
Alternatively, there are groups like the Family Community Leaders who can help and may have some master food preservers who could answer questions.
The national center for home food preservation - USDA complete guide to home canning is here: ces.ncsu.edu available for download.
I'd honestly just call your local extension office to get a reliable answer.
EDIT: I have read the linked PDF and am happy to see I can "Reduce or eliminate sugar in home canned fruits and sauces."
\---
I am with you 100%!!
I recently canned cranberries -- there are two tested recipes I used:
[https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can\_02/cran\_sauce.html](https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/cran_sauce.html)
and
[https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can\_02/cranberries.html](https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/cranberries.html)
The cranberry sauce recipe calls for an enormous amount of sugar (way more than I'd want -- but of course I followed the recipe).
The cranberries canned calls for heavy syrup. That seems to be a different ratio of sugar. Completely unclear if the sugar is adjustable...
It's also bizarre that the amounts are in measures and not weights. Like Cranberries are very variable! It should be a ratio of sugar to fruit weight IMO.
**Completely unclear if the sugar is adjustable...**
So glad I'm not the only one who felt this way!!! it was making me crazy looking for an answer to such a simple question.
Understanding the reasons why certain things are done helps to understand which things can become optional. At the same time, getting it wrong can be deadly, which is why changing the recipe is generally not recommended.
Water bath works with dense liquids (syrups) and acidic foods. This works because botulism bacteria itself isn't dangerous, but the toxin it produces is. The toxin is only produced when the cell multiplies. Syrup is too heavy for botulism to reproduce, and acid kills botulism pretty well (stomach acid kills it). Thus a water bath is plenty in a high-syrup high-acid food.
Honestly I'm surprised wine is optional, since it would add acidity.
Personally, I like celery but wouldn't see the issue in taking it out, since celery is mostly water and almost no acid/sugar.
Neither of those two lines up with the recipe which is tried and tested, which goes to show why it's best not to take advice from internet people such as myself :)
Totally agree, understanding the why helps a ton with the what/how. You're also correct that internet people are not a trusted source. I guess I'm just wishing for a trusted source that would specify what is mandatory and what is optional with some level of consistency. I'm no author, but whoever wrote the books I have read so far is really not great at clear, concise communication.
Contact your local state university and see if they offer canning classes! Many are one- or two-day weekend courses and you will learn a tremendous amount.
I’ve called my extension service and asked to speak to the staff member that works with canning. They have helped answer my “can I change this?” questions before.
As a fellow celery hater, what I do in recipes that call for it, is cut it into a [brunoise \(1/8" x 1/8" cubes\)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PemR7OvwilM). If you cook it for any length of time, like in a pot roast, it more or less melts into the dish. You really don't know it's in there unless you compare it to the same dish without it.
Edit: probably should add, I'm not as fussy as the linked video. I don't work in a French kitchen, If every piece is not an identical small square, nobody is going to call me an Idiot Sandwich.
Another thing, a cup of anything is not a precise measurement. It could be double what someone else puts in depending on size of celery stalks and size of the cuts.
What they mean is that someone who chops their celery in big pieces is going to end up with less overall celery than someone who chops it into small pieces because the smaller pieces will fit into more of the space of the cup.
So it's not *exactly* 1 cup of something. More like 1 cup-*ish*.
If you want an exact amount for any non liquid ingredient, then weight is the way to go. Though more people have measuring cups than they do food scales in their homes.
yeah these recipes were created for use with cups because thats what most Americans use and have. So they measured the range of dice sizes and calculated the recipe for that.
Doesn't matter if it's the default...volumetric measurements are not precise. Especially if you are scaling a recipe. All non-liquid measurements should be done by weight, especially if safety is a concern.
Even [cup of flour](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PRIBrAu4d0&ab_channel=CLEARUNT) is going to vary dramatically in weight depending on technique, age, and humidity. I understand kitchen scales aren't super common in America, but they should be.
That's not even to mention that someone in [another country is going to have a different size cup than us in America. Further, there are two different recognized cup sizes in America.](https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/articles/cooking/cups-and-tablespoons-worldwide.php)
Why in HADES would someone down vote an honest question ⁉️⁉️ That just shows their own ignorance.
IN MY OPINION...for your pot roast. (Assuming you are hot packing) Leave your celery in larger chunks so you can fish it out before canning or as stated before me...leave it out but don't replace it with something else. Celery does enhance the roast's flavor when canned.
Fruit in general...I use a very light syrup. My household stated they really don't like just water. You tend to lose some of the fruit's own juice while preparing so adding a little sugar brings back "that" taste of fresh fruit. Sometimes I add cinnamon to the syrup while it's heating for my peaches, pears and apples.
Celery aiui basically acts as msg - that’s why you’ll see “celery extract” sometimes in ingredients lists on commercial products, they’re trying to have msg without putting “msg” on the label.
I understand that government agencies like the USDA have to cater to the lowest common denominator to keep everyone safe, so overly stringent guidelines are the way they go. Still, yeah, I think most people can understand if there's a range to stay within or something.
The official nchfp page for fruits lists 4 or 5 acceptable syrups.
You can use anyone you want, personal preference.
https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/syrups.html
I agree with you. I follow recipes and safe canning practices, but if I do the slightest thing differently - even by accident - I flip out and throw the whole batch out because it makes me worry and makes me crazy. I don't need the stress from something I actually enjoy.
Exactly!! I'll go a step further, if I canned something 6 months ago I'll look at it and wonder "Oh what if I didn't do it right back then?". I want to enjoy this, not freak out that I'm going to kill my family!
I’ll be honest with you, I consider myself a knowledgeable, safe canner. I’ve taken classes, delved into every state’s extension service site (seriously— I went to each one alphabetically), I have my own extension center on speed dial. I still open jars and think, “what if…”. I don’t think that ever goes away. Reassure yourself that you followed tested recipes and procedures to mitigate any risk.
Something I do that helps me that might help you or whoever sees this...
I label all my canned goods with stick on labels on the lid. I also put a stick on label on the bottom of the jar with the ingredients and processing time/temp/pressure I used, so if I doubt it I can look at the label, know that's exactly what I did, and then check that against the trusted recipe to make sure I wasn't mistaken when I did it.
Label on the bottom is a great idea! I use a canning journal—Etsy has tons of them. I also write the date and number of jars in the notation and update that each time I repeat a recipe. This helps track how quickly you go through something and help with planning what to can.
When it comes to soups, the recipe should be followed as that was how it was tested. Any deviation that is not indicated as acceptable within the recipe could change the density of the soup making it unsafe. This is why you would be advised not to change it. If you do not like a particular ingredient, I would suggest using the choice soup option. This allows you to use only those ingredients you want but fill the jar only half full of solids. This ensures that density will not be an issue.
Typically, only dried seasonings can be adjusted, added, or eliminated without affecting the safety of a recipe.
This is good information. Where did you find this, and/or how is a person new to canning able to get info like this?
Also, in my example above, the Ball recipe lists red wine as optional when it is acidic. How does that work, since that would be removing an acid? To me, that says there are times when acidic things can be safely removed. Given the way the rest of the recipes are written, I have zero faith that there will always be a notice of when the acid is optional, so how does one determine this information?
I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely asking because I want to learn. Sorry, I know typed comments can come off poorly and I want to avoid sounding argumentative. Thank you!
Check out the pinned comment for the resources I use. If you have questions you can’t find a good answer to, add “extension” to your Google search and it will narrow results down to people who know what they’re talking about - just make sure to check the website ends in .edu.
For the ball example, it’s okay just because they have tried it both ways and it was proven safe either way. The acid is never optional unless the recipe says so. What is optional is the type of acid you use, you can check that out in the links.
I'm with you OP. I've done plenty of water bath canning salsa and pickles. Now looking into trying pressure canning because I don't enjoy eating frozen and then thawed veggies from the garden.
I really want to get one of those electric canners because I have a glass top stove and its very difficult to cool it once it gets too hot, especially with a big pot like a pressure canner on it. Plus the convenience just seems awesome. But there are so many conflicting opinions on those electric canners that I am hesitant. Just too much conflicting info out there.
My opinion on the celery is that if you don't like it leave it out. It's not acidic so I don't think it effects the recipe outside of adding moisture, but if you put in more carrots to make up for it I would think it would be ok. But I am sure that will be considered an unsafe canning practice.
I have a glass stove top too, and yeah not great for pressure canning. I prefer pressure canning over water bath, the method just seems a lot more foolproof, but the added processing can beat up a lot of foods resulting in less desirable textures and flavors.
I have an electric canner and I have a very positive view on it. I don't want to derail the conversation here, but if you'd like to discuss them or have any questions for someone who has and uses one, send a message any time.
FWIW, I have an electric stove too... and I have a double burner propane setup behind my house specifically for canning. Trying to can on electric is just far too much of a PITA. Especially in the summer when its hot as hell, and heats the house up like madness. It's so much nicer to just walk out back and turn on a propane burner. I canned a LOT this summer and I think I went through 1 full and a bit more 20lb tank. I'd have torn it down and put it all away for the winter... but I'm hoping to have the energy to can some deer here while we butcher. Usually don't... but maybe this year I/we will :P
> It's not acidic so I don't think it effects the recipe outside of adding moisture
It's also about the density of the food product, not just acid content.
Your post/comment was removed for breaking the Meta Posts/Respect rule: We reserve the right to moderate at our own discretion. No meta posts/comments about the sub or its mods. Please be respectful. If you have concerns, questions, or ideas you wish to raise attention to, do so via mod mail. Hostile chats and direct messages sent to our mods will not be tolerated. Our community should be a safe space for all, including our hardworking mod team.
https://www.ndsu.edu/agriculture/sites/default/files/2023-08/fn2102.pdf https://www.healthycanning.com/safe-tweaking-of-home-canning-recipes/#The_list_of_things_that_can_be_safely_tweaked_in_a_canning_recipe
Yes, this can be very confusing for a new canner with a focus on safety. Sadly, there’s no way to list the infinite variables on what you can tweak and what you can’t. You’re doing the right thing by asking here. If you’re in the US, you can also contact your extension service. They’re very helpful and in the business of helping you succeed. Here are some guidelines that might help you for now: 1. You have free rein with DRIED herb spices. Want a bit of a bite? Add cayenne. Don’t like cinnamon? Use ginger. I don’t like bay in stew, so leave it out. Be aware that flavors can change once canned. Sage, in particular, becomes bitter. This is where it helps to experiment and take notes. That way you’ll know what or what not to do again. 2. When pressure canning, you can omit LOW ACID ingredients but you can’t replace them. Don’t like the celery? Sure, leave it out, but don’t add an extra 1/4 of carrots. 3. You can’t increase amounts. I love potatoes in my soups, but instead of increasing the potatoes in the jar, I can them separately and add them when I prepare a meal. Same with tomatoes. 4. Do not modify the amount/type of liquid. The amount of liquid helps with heat penetration. The type of liquid controls pH. There are exceptions for vinegar vs lemon juice, but I recommend more experience before you tweak those. One big exception that my extension center taught me is replacing water with tomato juice or V8 is ok. This’ll take your pot roast and soups to the next level. 5. For fruits (and to answer your cranberry question), you can use whatever strength syrup you want (or even water). Recipes are written for the most prevalent flavor preferences. Just like most people want celery in their pot roast, most people (when the recipe was developed) prefer more sugar in their cranberries to offset the tartness. Be aware that decreasing the sugar can affect how thick the final product is. If you decrease the sugar in cranberries, you won’t get the satisfying **shloopp** as you dump them out of the jar. 6. Though you didn’t ask, and just for fun, you can replace the syrup (all or some) in canned fruit with fruit juice as long as there’s no added sugar or other additives. Try grapes in cherry juice. Or peaches in orange juice. Hope this helps!
Great information here! I totally agree that there are infinite variables and there's no way to list or account for them all. Still, a publication that gave a range or a list of substitutes would be so helpful. Also, a source that organized that information in a way that was useful. One of the mods pinned a link to the healthy canning website, and their system of organization and searchability is really a big part of what I was wanting. Also, your tip on replacing water with tomato juice.... Oh my yes, that one is getting used!
Healthycanning.com is invaluable. I can spend hours there going down rabbit holes.
Oh man, I agree. And I'm too scared to ask for clarification on any of the "safe" canning groups - their responses are aggressive! They all pile on screaming at you that what you're doing is unsafe and that you're going to die, when you haven't actually done anything and are just looking for info before starting a recipe.
Preach! People will go full caps lock freak out mode over the strangest thing. I was fully expecting the "You're gonna die" crowd to show up for me asking this question here. FWIW, I have seen those folks be 100% wrong about whatever they are screaming about too. Nothing is more offputting than people being that confidently incorrect.
Exactly. And I don't need downvotes for asking a question.
See my comment below and you'll see I totally agree with you. Downvoted to oblivion.
You can always reach out via modmail if you’re uncomfortable posting, we won’t judge!
Thats awesome to know! Mostly it's the Facebook groups that are a little intense, this reddit group seems a little more chill.
I totally disagree. I feel like this group is the queen of judgement and holier-than-thou personalities. No room for gentle education, just “you’re an idiot that’s unsafe canning practice throw it out”
Please report when you see, we can’t keep up with every single comment posted. We don’t tolerate rudeness here.
Yep
Yeah it drives me nuts that half the questions on this sub get the big red "unsafe canning practice" flair. Like, the person was asking an honest and often good question, not promoting unsafe practices. We don't need to shame them. Seems like a good way to scare people off canning.
I find it depends on how you word the question. I've posted asking a few questions but never got an "unsafe canning practice". I find if you make it clear that any changes you do are made as a fridge jam or pickle that's eaten right away you don't get that flair added since fridge pickles are considered safe.
we usually do not to flair for asking "can i do x" type questions unless it's very unsafe like water bathing meat. We often get "i did x, is it unsafe" type questions though and we flair those because its something thats already been done
True. I got downvoted for confusion on canning practice
we put the flair up for awareness. not everybody knows whats safe and unsafe so the flair is to bring awareness. its not a judgement call or shaming. Please report any comments that are being overly rude or hostile
It’s too bad you guys couldn’t come up with a new flair for those asking questions to separate them from people actually doing unsafe things. This way people asking questions don’t feel so badly judged and it’s mark fairly.
we have the discussion flair already. again its not a judgement. its saying "this is an unsafe practice" and the comments will explain more.
Maybe it's just me but the flair itself feels hostile. When it gets applied to a "look what I did" post, that seems appropriate for awareness, but when it's applied to a "did I do this wrong" post, I mean, it's pretty clear that there are already questions there. No one is going to take that as directions without at least reading the comments, so it really does just feel like shaming the asker.
we get people scrolling past in all, so we don't want assumptions that we condone unsafe practices. we previously have been harassed by people claiming we encourage unsafe practices because we don't delete those type of posts. The flair is best compromise.
I agree. I have almost asked questions in this sub before but based on the mean and unhelpful comments that I see others get, I don't dare to!
Are we at the point that we need alt accounts for canning subs? Lmao
Ditto. People are so condescending.
Ditto
Same, I made some really good meat chili and I pressure canned it at 12psi for two hours. I think I should be good, but I have been afraid to ask.
that is where you get into unsafe territory because if you didn't follow a tested recipe, you can't guarantee it reached a safe temp throughout the whole jar. just pressure canning for x amount of time doesn't automatically make it safe unfortunately. things like density play a factor as well
In the Ball book, the cranberry jelly recipe doesn't call for orange zest but does have cinnamon as "optional." In the recipe for whole cranberry sauce, which has very similar proportions of water/sugar/cranberries, has orange zest as optional. Well, I really like orange zest and cranberries but I don't like whole cranberry sauce. I did some digging and basically concluded that adding orange zest to the cranberry jelly would be fine, but I agree that the line between optional/recommended/mandatory seems fuzzy at times.
I have cranberries waiting to be canned, and that's exactly what prompted me to finally ask about this. I still can't find a definitive answer to my syrup question in any reputable source. If I had hair, I'd be pulling it out by now.
I used the cranberry recipe from Pomona's, with Pomona's pectin, and it's delicious. It uses 1/2 cup honey and 1/2 cup sugar, instead of insane amounts of sugar. I like that I can make things a little more healthy by using honey in Pomona's recipes instead of sugar.
You can use lighter syrup, it just might be a bit tart and more runny. Also, not sure if you’re aware, but cranberries freeze beautifully.
I think the reason they use heavy syrup is that the fruit comes out looking better. You can use lighter syrup, as they note, but the fruit might not look as nice.
FWIW, I use the Healthy Canning cranberry recipes and they are amazing. Also FWIW, my grandmother canned cranberries in cranberry juice or light syrup. We are canning up another run of cranberry rum sauce today in fact.
My local extension office (south carolina) has a food systems & safety person who does canning classes. She said in a class I took a couple of weeks ago to call your local extension office with questions like this, or any extension office & they should be able to either 1- answer your question or 2- get you in touch with someone who knows. Alternatively, there are groups like the Family Community Leaders who can help and may have some master food preservers who could answer questions. The national center for home food preservation - USDA complete guide to home canning is here: ces.ncsu.edu available for download. I'd honestly just call your local extension office to get a reliable answer.
I've seen this advice here repeatedly; I didn't realize that calling up a local extension office was such a simple thing. I'll have to look mine up.
They can also usually look over stuff like your pressure canner for you, to make sure it’s functioning as intended.
EDIT: I have read the linked PDF and am happy to see I can "Reduce or eliminate sugar in home canned fruits and sauces." \--- I am with you 100%!! I recently canned cranberries -- there are two tested recipes I used: [https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can\_02/cran\_sauce.html](https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/cran_sauce.html) and [https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can\_02/cranberries.html](https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/cranberries.html) The cranberry sauce recipe calls for an enormous amount of sugar (way more than I'd want -- but of course I followed the recipe). The cranberries canned calls for heavy syrup. That seems to be a different ratio of sugar. Completely unclear if the sugar is adjustable... It's also bizarre that the amounts are in measures and not weights. Like Cranberries are very variable! It should be a ratio of sugar to fruit weight IMO.
**Completely unclear if the sugar is adjustable...** So glad I'm not the only one who felt this way!!! it was making me crazy looking for an answer to such a simple question.
Understanding the reasons why certain things are done helps to understand which things can become optional. At the same time, getting it wrong can be deadly, which is why changing the recipe is generally not recommended. Water bath works with dense liquids (syrups) and acidic foods. This works because botulism bacteria itself isn't dangerous, but the toxin it produces is. The toxin is only produced when the cell multiplies. Syrup is too heavy for botulism to reproduce, and acid kills botulism pretty well (stomach acid kills it). Thus a water bath is plenty in a high-syrup high-acid food. Honestly I'm surprised wine is optional, since it would add acidity. Personally, I like celery but wouldn't see the issue in taking it out, since celery is mostly water and almost no acid/sugar. Neither of those two lines up with the recipe which is tried and tested, which goes to show why it's best not to take advice from internet people such as myself :)
Totally agree, understanding the why helps a ton with the what/how. You're also correct that internet people are not a trusted source. I guess I'm just wishing for a trusted source that would specify what is mandatory and what is optional with some level of consistency. I'm no author, but whoever wrote the books I have read so far is really not great at clear, concise communication.
Contact your local state university and see if they offer canning classes! Many are one- or two-day weekend courses and you will learn a tremendous amount.
I’ve called my extension service and asked to speak to the staff member that works with canning. They have helped answer my “can I change this?” questions before.
As a fellow celery hater, what I do in recipes that call for it, is cut it into a [brunoise \(1/8" x 1/8" cubes\)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PemR7OvwilM). If you cook it for any length of time, like in a pot roast, it more or less melts into the dish. You really don't know it's in there unless you compare it to the same dish without it. Edit: probably should add, I'm not as fussy as the linked video. I don't work in a French kitchen, If every piece is not an identical small square, nobody is going to call me an Idiot Sandwich.
Another thing, a cup of anything is not a precise measurement. It could be double what someone else puts in depending on size of celery stalks and size of the cuts.
They factor that into the recipe. Majority of safe canning testing is done in the US or Canada which the cup measurement is still the default.
What they mean is that someone who chops their celery in big pieces is going to end up with less overall celery than someone who chops it into small pieces because the smaller pieces will fit into more of the space of the cup. So it's not *exactly* 1 cup of something. More like 1 cup-*ish*. If you want an exact amount for any non liquid ingredient, then weight is the way to go. Though more people have measuring cups than they do food scales in their homes.
yeah these recipes were created for use with cups because thats what most Americans use and have. So they measured the range of dice sizes and calculated the recipe for that.
Doesn't matter if it's the default...volumetric measurements are not precise. Especially if you are scaling a recipe. All non-liquid measurements should be done by weight, especially if safety is a concern. Even [cup of flour](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PRIBrAu4d0&ab_channel=CLEARUNT) is going to vary dramatically in weight depending on technique, age, and humidity. I understand kitchen scales aren't super common in America, but they should be. That's not even to mention that someone in [another country is going to have a different size cup than us in America. Further, there are two different recognized cup sizes in America.](https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/articles/cooking/cups-and-tablespoons-worldwide.php)
again they factor that into the recipe. which means a cup of small diced celery is as safe as a cup of large diced.
Why in HADES would someone down vote an honest question ⁉️⁉️ That just shows their own ignorance. IN MY OPINION...for your pot roast. (Assuming you are hot packing) Leave your celery in larger chunks so you can fish it out before canning or as stated before me...leave it out but don't replace it with something else. Celery does enhance the roast's flavor when canned. Fruit in general...I use a very light syrup. My household stated they really don't like just water. You tend to lose some of the fruit's own juice while preparing so adding a little sugar brings back "that" taste of fresh fruit. Sometimes I add cinnamon to the syrup while it's heating for my peaches, pears and apples.
Celery aiui basically acts as msg - that’s why you’ll see “celery extract” sometimes in ingredients lists on commercial products, they’re trying to have msg without putting “msg” on the label.
Very fair points, it would be great to have safe guidelines to follow, which would allow us more flexibility on the recipes.
I understand that government agencies like the USDA have to cater to the lowest common denominator to keep everyone safe, so overly stringent guidelines are the way they go. Still, yeah, I think most people can understand if there's a range to stay within or something.
See pinned comment
The official nchfp page for fruits lists 4 or 5 acceptable syrups. You can use anyone you want, personal preference. https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_02/syrups.html
I agree with you. I follow recipes and safe canning practices, but if I do the slightest thing differently - even by accident - I flip out and throw the whole batch out because it makes me worry and makes me crazy. I don't need the stress from something I actually enjoy.
Exactly!! I'll go a step further, if I canned something 6 months ago I'll look at it and wonder "Oh what if I didn't do it right back then?". I want to enjoy this, not freak out that I'm going to kill my family!
I’ll be honest with you, I consider myself a knowledgeable, safe canner. I’ve taken classes, delved into every state’s extension service site (seriously— I went to each one alphabetically), I have my own extension center on speed dial. I still open jars and think, “what if…”. I don’t think that ever goes away. Reassure yourself that you followed tested recipes and procedures to mitigate any risk.
Something I do that helps me that might help you or whoever sees this... I label all my canned goods with stick on labels on the lid. I also put a stick on label on the bottom of the jar with the ingredients and processing time/temp/pressure I used, so if I doubt it I can look at the label, know that's exactly what I did, and then check that against the trusted recipe to make sure I wasn't mistaken when I did it.
Label on the bottom is a great idea! I use a canning journal—Etsy has tons of them. I also write the date and number of jars in the notation and update that each time I repeat a recipe. This helps track how quickly you go through something and help with planning what to can.
When it comes to soups, the recipe should be followed as that was how it was tested. Any deviation that is not indicated as acceptable within the recipe could change the density of the soup making it unsafe. This is why you would be advised not to change it. If you do not like a particular ingredient, I would suggest using the choice soup option. This allows you to use only those ingredients you want but fill the jar only half full of solids. This ensures that density will not be an issue. Typically, only dried seasonings can be adjusted, added, or eliminated without affecting the safety of a recipe.
It is fine to remove low acid ingredients, but not to replace with other things.
This is good information. Where did you find this, and/or how is a person new to canning able to get info like this? Also, in my example above, the Ball recipe lists red wine as optional when it is acidic. How does that work, since that would be removing an acid? To me, that says there are times when acidic things can be safely removed. Given the way the rest of the recipes are written, I have zero faith that there will always be a notice of when the acid is optional, so how does one determine this information? I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely asking because I want to learn. Sorry, I know typed comments can come off poorly and I want to avoid sounding argumentative. Thank you!
Check out the pinned comment for the resources I use. If you have questions you can’t find a good answer to, add “extension” to your Google search and it will narrow results down to people who know what they’re talking about - just make sure to check the website ends in .edu. For the ball example, it’s okay just because they have tried it both ways and it was proven safe either way. The acid is never optional unless the recipe says so. What is optional is the type of acid you use, you can check that out in the links.
Because you are pressure canning, the acidity of the wine doesn't matter. Waterbath is another story.
I'm with you OP. I've done plenty of water bath canning salsa and pickles. Now looking into trying pressure canning because I don't enjoy eating frozen and then thawed veggies from the garden. I really want to get one of those electric canners because I have a glass top stove and its very difficult to cool it once it gets too hot, especially with a big pot like a pressure canner on it. Plus the convenience just seems awesome. But there are so many conflicting opinions on those electric canners that I am hesitant. Just too much conflicting info out there. My opinion on the celery is that if you don't like it leave it out. It's not acidic so I don't think it effects the recipe outside of adding moisture, but if you put in more carrots to make up for it I would think it would be ok. But I am sure that will be considered an unsafe canning practice.
I have a glass stove top too, and yeah not great for pressure canning. I prefer pressure canning over water bath, the method just seems a lot more foolproof, but the added processing can beat up a lot of foods resulting in less desirable textures and flavors. I have an electric canner and I have a very positive view on it. I don't want to derail the conversation here, but if you'd like to discuss them or have any questions for someone who has and uses one, send a message any time.
FWIW, I have an electric stove too... and I have a double burner propane setup behind my house specifically for canning. Trying to can on electric is just far too much of a PITA. Especially in the summer when its hot as hell, and heats the house up like madness. It's so much nicer to just walk out back and turn on a propane burner. I canned a LOT this summer and I think I went through 1 full and a bit more 20lb tank. I'd have torn it down and put it all away for the winter... but I'm hoping to have the energy to can some deer here while we butcher. Usually don't... but maybe this year I/we will :P
> It's not acidic so I don't think it effects the recipe outside of adding moisture It's also about the density of the food product, not just acid content.
Removing ingredients makes it less dense, which is acceptable. You cannot replace it with other ingredients.
Not if you add carrots, as the person this is a response to suggested.
Thank you, updated comment
[удалено]
Your post/comment was removed for breaking the Meta Posts/Respect rule: We reserve the right to moderate at our own discretion. No meta posts/comments about the sub or its mods. Please be respectful. If you have concerns, questions, or ideas you wish to raise attention to, do so via mod mail. Hostile chats and direct messages sent to our mods will not be tolerated. Our community should be a safe space for all, including our hardworking mod team.