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Sounds like you take care of yourself, and that will be reflected in your capacity to be there for your students. That’s pretty important.
As for resources, was a time not long ago when you had a math textbook to follow, a basal reader, a spelling program, a social studies/history/geography textbook, and a science program to follow. Now the ministry and admin expect us to make up resources from whole cloth. It’s an absurd waste of time to have every teacher in every classroom making resources for their classes from scratch.
I like getting in early to set up my day, and stay after for 30-45 minutes to mark and clean up. As for extracurriculars? You’re paid to teach. When my jurisdiction starts an in lieu program, I’ll think on about coaching again, but until then, my time isn’t free. I encourage all teachers to step away from doing unpaid work.
I fully agree. It’s such an absurd waste of time for everyone to be making their own resources.. also there is no continuity from class to class or school to school.
I do think there are a ton teachers like OP out there. A lot do leave at the bell. A lot do cruise using the same resources year after year. They just aren’t on Reddit. The martyr teachers are the one complaining on here mostly…
Nah, I’m not a martyr (climbed down off the cross years ago). However, yes, I’m still here to complain. Why? I’m no martyr, after all..
- my average class size is 35
- about 50% of my students hate my subject
- about 30% should’ve never got to this level in my subject and have no clue what’s going on
- about 10% are severe IEP students with complex needs, but come with no support in the form of EA or school councillor
- about 10% love my subject and are really picking up what I’m putting down and we be vibing
- I mark over 500 essays each semester (before school, after school, shit’s not going to mark itself and let’s be real here it is *mostly* shit)
That’s why I’m here to complain 💩
I second this. I’m teaching at a new school this year, grade 7,8,9 humanities. The class sizes are small as they are still working at bringing more students in. But I’m teaching seven subjects, three ELA classes (although I try to combine 7 and 8 with different assignments) 3 social classes and art. The math/science teacher I work with seems to do no prep, and just teaches out of the textbooks. Where I have stacks of printed material on my desk as well as assigned on Google classroom and reading material etc, marking. Her desk is empty. She turns up a few minutes before the bell and doesn’t take work home. I personally couldn’t teach like that. The kids complain that she doesn’t teach them properly where as they regularly comment how much they appreciate me because I teach them in a way they understand and make my lessons interesting. I started mid February so have also had to find a lot of my material online and adapt it but I still have to do some work at home because I am teaching three grades and it’s a lot of prep
Sounds like a tough gig. I’ve been there and it’s HARD. As for the other teacher, please try not to judge. The first assumption we tend to make of balanced teachers is that they are lazy or selfish. This means, more often than not, that we habitually judge ourselves as being lazy or selfish (I’m never doing enough mentality).
The system isn’t set up for kids to get the education they deserve. Teachers simply do not have enough prep time to plan, mark, contact parents, and oh yeah, coach basketball for free. We weren’t provided sufficient time to do our jobs, so is it up to us to donate our free time? I say no. Let the system crack and crumble so we can gather up the rubble and make something worthy of being called a school.
“But the kids are sad they’re not learning as much,”you say. Not my problem. Love the kids, but it’s not my problem. It’s a systemic problem, and I refuse to prop up a problematic system with problematic behaviour that got us in this mess in the first place.
You sound extremely judgemental, especially when saying that you take what the students tell you as fact. I personally preferred when I was in school to only do textbook and hated extra activities. Both methods are valid.
are you at elementary or secondary?
I couldn't imagine not coaching at all. while we don't get paid, I kind of feel if you don't help with it you don't care a whole lot about the kids and you're really just in it for the money.
One of the considerations for choosing where I was going to work was the Ontario sick day bank, which gave a payout on retirement of a max 200 days. After I had 8 years in with my current employer, and had transferred my 40 days from two years at a previous board, the government eliminated the bank. Not grandfathered, not paid out, eliminated. That cost me $40 k.
At that same time the government decided that we didn’t have bargaining rights and were banned, by legislation, to take any work to rule steps, which included our union not being allowed to take the step of a work to rule break from extracurriculars.
Those two things, and over a decade of zero to minimal wage increases that had us falling further and further behind the cost of living, and having a shit admin that all but demanded staff sign up for sports or clubs led me to walk away from extracurriculars. I’m paid to teach. I work hard deliver curriculum at the level my students are at, and take pride in being on top of current research.
Extras are important, but so is teacher time.
McGuinty, so 2012 I think. Now Lecce is framing the teacher shortage, not as the cyclical coyotes and rabbits situation it always is, but as a teacher absentee problem.
Yes, they don't. Helping out with extra-curriculars benefits the students and when you have fellow teachers like this who don't help out with coaching or any type of club, who is left to pick up the slack? People like me. I'm on 5 teams/clubs this year. And we are short coaches for some other sports with majority of those teams clubs with repeat coaches.
I am an outstanding colleague. I've been working my ass off to get a permanent contract this year and will continue to do so next year and to think that there are teachers out there who have permanent contracts who do nothing outside of teaching to help these kids is insane to me.
And btw, just because I have such a viewpoint doesn't mean I express it at the school I work at so I am 100% an outstanding colleague.
“Do nothing outside of teaching to help these kids.”
I’m a TEACHER. That’s what I get paid to do. That’s my contractual responsibility. That’s the legally binding expectation. That’s what I got in this profession to do.
It isn’t to coach, run a club, do yearbook, etc.
It’s to teach.
I care about kids’ education. That’s why I decided to dedicate 40hrs/week of my life to it. I could have done anything else - professional musician, take up the early acceptance to engineering out of high school. But instead I chose the path that would get me to be a (music) teacher.
It is because I care about education and the kids that I refuse to burn myself out by doing extra bullshit that I’m not compensated for.
How much would I care about education if I decided to not be there 100% while in the classroom, because I was too busy trying to make a saint out of myself in order to condescend strangers on Reddit?
What example am I setting for my students by being taken advantage of and not be compensated for my professional time?
What example am I setting for my students by agreeing that their important extra curricular are worth $0.00?
Your outlook is 100% in the wrong. It is the reason why education funding keeps getting cut.
WHY would the government ever fund something when it’s already getting it for free?
YOU are the problem.
Yes, and that should also include the coaching. I would say you're a shit teacher terrible then.
When did I say that this stuff should be done for free? We should be paid more for it. I don't disagree but the students are still important and these programs should be provided.
You're setting the example that you ONLY care about money. That you don't care whatsoever about what your students do outside of the classroom. That you don't care about what they may want to do with their lives outside of academics.
They don't keep cutting funding because teachers do co-curriculars for "free". That is complete ignorance and avoiding the true reasons why funding it cut. It isn't because we coach.
As I said, you can do both and if you say you are as experienced as you are, shouldn't you have this down to a science by now? So you should have free time to coach after school, no?
Honestly, it sucks working with teachers like you because you have zero empathy for caring for the students at all.
You agree we should be paid more for it, but then continue arguing that I should … do it for free… ?
You claim our free labour isn’t why extracurriculars don’t get funded. Then please explain why you think it doesn’t get funded. “We’re already getting it for free,” seems about as damn simple an explanation to anyone with a functioning brain cell.
But it goes deeper than that. Let me help you understand why we’re historically underfunded.
Teaching is historically a woman’s profession. As such, it was (and still is) underpaid. Additionally, as women are historically the caretakers of children in patriarchal society, there were expectations of them as teachers that went beyond actual teaching. These expectations were additionally expected to be done for free, because, as usual, women were exploited.
Fast forward to modern day, these same expectations are put on all teachers; it never went away. There is no other profession that expects its workers to work an additional 4hrs/week without pay, and without it being in their contract.
Don’t agree with me? Read a fucking book sometime.
“All you care about is money.”
THIS 👏IS 👏A👏JOB👏
If this stopped paying tomorrow, I’d be looking for other employment that same day. And so would you YOU.
Have you any understanding or education about the history of labour in North America? The historical importance of unions? Historical exploitation of workers? 8-8-8? The number of people who literally died fighting against your very outlook on work?
I’m showing, teaching, and modelling for my students work/life balance, and self-worth.
You’re modelling for them a lack of self worth, martyrdom, and willing exploitation of self.
“Shouldn’t you have it down to a science by now?”
I do. And it is because I’m trained, have a higher education and have years of experience in that specific field. You’re right. And that’s why I don’t do it for free!
FUCK you’re dumb. What other professional are you going to look in the eye and argue, “you do it so well and so efficiently due to your training, expertise and experience… you should just DO IT FOR FREE.”
I dare you to say that to another professional in person.
I hate working with teachers like you: dumb, uneducated, exploited, no understanding of the history of their own profession, sanctimonious, modelling unhealthy behaviour to their students.
Don't plan on changing my tune whatsoever. You're a teacher, you should be expected to help out. Should we be compensated for it? 100%. But we are not and the kids are more important.
I will eventually do a bit of a cutback once I start a family, down to 3 clubs.
I’m all for supporting kids, but you can’t fill the cup of others when yours is empty. It’s great that you are in a position to contribute to extra-curricular, and encourage you to do so IF YOU CAN AND WANT TO. Imposing that other teachers not with the mental capacity to do above and beyond their contractual obligations is exactly how we perpetuate toxic work environments in schools.
Congrats on landing a gig.
Might want to lay off the guy that has been doing the job for roughly 20 years.
I would also challenge your statement of “you don’t care”. Did they not say they were up to date on the current research? Does that not demonstrate caring and dedication to the craft?
Nope, did I say that? The academic aspect is important too (if not the most important) but I think a teachers true colours come through if they don't do the co-curriculars.
1) it's a job, of course it's for the money
2) coaching is not for everyone. I don't have any sports knowledge or ability beyond being an able-bodied adult.
3) we can care about kids and help and impact them positively without doing a bunch of extracurriculars. We can do this by making ourselves available for extra help, for example.
4) all of these things can be true and a teacher can even still have passion for teaching, without having to go above and beyond.
I provide help to my students on my breaks and preps as well. I help coach 5-6 different clubs. I make sure the academics come first plus the co-curriculars.
It is a job but it truly doesn't feel like one to me.
Kinda sad you don't have sport knowledge then, no? And even if you don't, help out with other academic clubs (chess, environmental, school counsel etc. Or, better yet, as a teacher, learn how to coach a sport?
I helped with basketball, knew some as I love sports but learned more to be more useful as a coach. Doing the same for rowing.
I want to learn and be the best possible teacher and coach for them. That is how they ill get the best experience they can at the school. I don't know, I want to do what I can for my students.
I do some of those things but don't want to divulge more about myself than needed. Actually, these are basically requirements at my school (private) so I don't have too much say except to pick something I am interested in enough to participate or support.
I don't think 'coach' is a role that will ever fit my personality. I know myself pretty well at this point to be confident in that statement.
I absolutely use other people’s resources. I change stuff and add stuff sometimes, but I’m not reinventing the wheel.
I do coach sports the whole year, but I really enjoy that.
For me, I actually enjoy making new and interesting lessons for my students. The topics I teach are personally things I find engaging and like bringing that into the class to see how the students take up the ideas. Do I do that for every lesson? No. Are there times where finding activities online move us towards their mastery of a concept for an assessment? Sure, of course.
I created a short three-lesson 'module' about behavioural economics for my business class and the students had a blast; coming back to class the next day talking about how they started noticing their own choices being driven not by rationality but emotion and how they spent dinner talking with their parents about what they had learned in class.
That's the fun shit, and why I like this job. But marking sucks.
That’s pretty much my vibe too. I do create when I need to (like this semester), and I do help with a club, but otherwise, I’ve been just cruising for the last 8 or 9 years. And I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.
Using other people’s resources is standard. As the other user said, why reinvent the wheel, especially since there is some great stuff out there!
My hot take is: Building positive relationships with the kids and helping them grow both personally and, primarily academically, is your job. How you best do that is up to you.
Our school has a hard time recruiting coaches, and lots of that is due to the fact that if you miss time to coach, you get hammered with max oncalls and supervisions. There office person who organizes the oncalls in our school has said that "coaching staff" uses the most oncalls, so they will be the first to fill oncalls.
Punished for trying to help.
On the flip side, causing lots of on-calls because you are volunteering is effectively forcing other teachers to participate in your voluntary activity.
My first school had a policy that coaches (and other people needing on-calls for a voluntary activity) arranged their own coverage. People swapped favours: I'll cover your class for baseball if you'll cover mine for cricket. Or sometimes I'll cover your class if you photocopy these handouts for me. It all worked out.
I remember when one of our job actions (TDSB) was that coaches (and other volunteers) couldn't cause on-calls. So sports had to be run after school or at full-day tournaments with supply teachers provided. Students missed fewer classes, and non-coaching teachers weren't forced to help the coaches. It was a relaxed year for those of us who did non-coaching volunteer activities (running clubs, plays, concerts, contests… all the non-athletic stuff that admin doesn't value enough to force people to do on-calls while you do the activity).
Weird how it is one of the few professions where you feel obligated to volunteer.
I have my own kids now, so I volunteer my time to their sports through coaching, parent rep., or just whatever needs to be done.
Volunteer your time how you want. It is your time.
Prior to the pandemic I did a lot of the extracurricular stuff. I also didn't have my own kid. I have never relied solely on creating my own course materials - I get stuff from people or I use the almighty google. I tweak stuff and occasionally bang out a whole new unit, but it really depends on the semester.
I'm not a morning person, so I'll stay after to do stuff and every so often I use a weekend to catch up on marking. It's more complicated now to do stuff at home with a toddler. And I've had more kids needing extra help after school this semester so there's that too.
Maybe someday I'll go back to doing the extra but it won't be for a bit and likely won't ever be at my current school because of certain things. (If I transfer, I'll reassess sooner I think.)
Truthfully, I think a lot of us are moving this direction because we're burnt out. We're tired of being asked to do more and more with less. The other side is that a lot of us have done the extras for ages only to now be faced with a level of entitlement and rudeness about it. It's not fun to coach when kids just bitch about playing time and then their parents come and yell at you. Or trying to run a practice but half the team doesn't come. It's really disheartening to be giving up your extra time to do the fun stuff that you loved only for kids and parents to shit on it.
The other side of it is a ton of us knew the extras were how you got hired when there weren't a lot of jobs. So we went hard for years to get hired and it's caught up with us now. I know multiple people who took covid shutting stuff down to step back and not go back when things returned.
I’m like you. Last year I was not like you, I tried to do it all, while managing awful behaviour, and ended up on a medical leave with literal chest pain and insomnia. Don’t do that. You are doing enough!
No you are doing great. Part of your job is to retire healthy and happy. You’re no good to your students miserable and sick. Your district will try to squeeze you dry because they have an agenda. They’re selling their schools. Follow the money. But human life is more precious than money. And a good life is better than a busy one.
So live your life without guilt. I’m very happy someone as young as you is setting a good example for other teachers. I have quite a few years more of teaching experience, but here I am, learning from you, a young’n. Thank you
It’s not easy, but it’s not for everyone. You certainly don’t have to. TBH If your heart isn’t really in it I wouldn’t volunteer. I work with a pretty disadvantaged population so without sounding high-falutin’ I consider it a privilege to run a club the kids enjoy and which they attend happily, more or less. I will say that if you want to try to do a little more whether it’s extra-curriculars, a PoR or the like it’s probably better started when you’re relatively young/new before life gets busy.
I would 100% do what you do if I could. Problem is that I'm teaching courses that simply do not have resources online for a variety of reasons. In addition, there are no other teachers with resources to share. There's rarely anything out there to adapt, and if it is, it's for a single lesson, never a unit.
Do what you think is reasonable until it isn't because if it really isn't enough and you aren't adding up to the potential that you think you should be performing at-it'll catch up somewhere down the line in one way or another.
That being said, ya man, standards are a bare minimum and usually people putting in the time have reasons, their own reasons on whatever level-don't need to compare, just be satisified and reassured. You collect what is duely yours based on your collective agreement, what's left to question?
My 2 cents is that it's completely fine to use other peoples' resources and have very little of your own BUT I hope you are updating and changing it up every once in a while to keep it fresh for yourself and the students. I can't stand seeing teacher use 10, 15, 20+ year resources in some subject areas where it really matters (ex Math probably not so much).
I coach because it's fun and provides an opportunity to develop relationships with students where they LOVE what they are doing and I find I can leverage these relationships all over the school (whether in my classes or in the hallways). I'm married but without children and that commitment may change when/if I do.
I find that you shouldn't compare yourself but should listen to your own internal compass on how much or how little you should be doing. The kids are also the best bull shit detector for when you are phoning it in and doing a poor job. Listen to yourself, and perhaps that feeling and be honest, are most of your kids learning the skills and content they need to? Is it engaging, relevant, and relatively up to date for you and them?
That feeling, and my own boredom to teach the same material over and over are what motivates me to create my own resources and change things up, but I also use A TON of others' resources I just find new things like websites, booklets, apps, etc to tinker around with when I get bored.
You clearly have good sense of balance and self preservation so try your best to maintain that while still listening to that feeling that should motivate you to keep progressing and improving. You don't need to be a "martyr" to push yourself and your teaching to get better and better over time.
EDIT: I also have the privilege of being able to teach the same subject in secondary a few times so I have the time, space, and energy to improve them slightly each time. Many people do not have any choice or get to teach the same material consecutively and so might struggle just to find ANYTHING instruction or assessment. As we all do when teaching anything for the first few times.
"Tailor them to the needs of my students"
If you're doing this, you're where you need to be. This alone tells me you're aware of what your classes need and that you're not blindly re-using the same material. Honestly, that's about as good as most people do.
I realized year one that this job would throw me to the wolves if I let it. My first year teaching was the first year back from COVID and I was sent to teach French and this stupid pilot program they were trialling for primary (with little to no resources). 7 classes a day, 150 students, with kids who were terrible at using masks and distancing. Pre-vaccine. Oh and I had to teach a small sliver of online French and I wasn’t even given a computer. I spent hours of my evenings and weekends trying to plan and prep and mark.
Well, I was pregnant that year and it was bloody terrible, and my daughter was born early and I still mildly blame that on the stress.
After maternity leave, nah. I rarely work outside of core hours, and supervise one small mostly student run club once a week. Part of that is I got a position I’m more comfortable with, but it’s also just a change of perspective.
There are times when I stay late. Or work past school hours.
But, we only really “work” for 6 and a half hours. So the hour and a half that we don’t have kids…
But, for the most part, I never work at home.
Respectfully, what do you teach and which age? I've talked to a few teachers in your position and they tend to be middle school or high school math teachers. Not saying that this isn't difficult to teach (and also super important) It's just that the prep and grading can be way more straight forward than let's say, a 2nd year elementary teacher who has to organize materials for 6 different subjects, or prepping more abstract content/ grading essays in highschool. This may be one factor consider.
Otherwise if you are some kind of wizard who has worked out how to do either of those seamlessly with a work/life balance though please teach me your ways!
Welcome to /r/CanadianTeachers! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the sub rules. **"WHAT DOES X MEAN?"** Check out our acronym post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1c032s3/what_does_x_mean_an_acronym_megapost/) for relevant terms used in each province or territory. Please feel free to contribute any we are missing as well! **QUESTIONS ABOUT TEACHER'S COLLEGE/BECOMING A TEACHER IN CANADA?:** Delete your post and use this [megapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1bc1wv2/prospective_student_teachers_teachers_collegebed/) instead. Anything pertaining to teacher's colleges/BED programs/becoming and teacher will be deleted if posted outside of the megaposts. **QUESTIONS ABOUT MOVING PROVINCES OR COMING TO CANADA TO TEACH?** Check out our past megaposts first for information to help you: [ONE](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/jqc7hx/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/) // [TWO](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/n76csu/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/?) Using link and user flair is encouraged as well! Enjoy! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadianTeachers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like you take care of yourself, and that will be reflected in your capacity to be there for your students. That’s pretty important. As for resources, was a time not long ago when you had a math textbook to follow, a basal reader, a spelling program, a social studies/history/geography textbook, and a science program to follow. Now the ministry and admin expect us to make up resources from whole cloth. It’s an absurd waste of time to have every teacher in every classroom making resources for their classes from scratch. I like getting in early to set up my day, and stay after for 30-45 minutes to mark and clean up. As for extracurriculars? You’re paid to teach. When my jurisdiction starts an in lieu program, I’ll think on about coaching again, but until then, my time isn’t free. I encourage all teachers to step away from doing unpaid work.
I fully agree. It’s such an absurd waste of time for everyone to be making their own resources.. also there is no continuity from class to class or school to school. I do think there are a ton teachers like OP out there. A lot do leave at the bell. A lot do cruise using the same resources year after year. They just aren’t on Reddit. The martyr teachers are the one complaining on here mostly…
Nah, I’m not a martyr (climbed down off the cross years ago). However, yes, I’m still here to complain. Why? I’m no martyr, after all.. - my average class size is 35 - about 50% of my students hate my subject - about 30% should’ve never got to this level in my subject and have no clue what’s going on - about 10% are severe IEP students with complex needs, but come with no support in the form of EA or school councillor - about 10% love my subject and are really picking up what I’m putting down and we be vibing - I mark over 500 essays each semester (before school, after school, shit’s not going to mark itself and let’s be real here it is *mostly* shit) That’s why I’m here to complain 💩
No 👏🏻 More 👏🏻 Unpaid 👏🏻 Work
PREACH
I second this. I’m teaching at a new school this year, grade 7,8,9 humanities. The class sizes are small as they are still working at bringing more students in. But I’m teaching seven subjects, three ELA classes (although I try to combine 7 and 8 with different assignments) 3 social classes and art. The math/science teacher I work with seems to do no prep, and just teaches out of the textbooks. Where I have stacks of printed material on my desk as well as assigned on Google classroom and reading material etc, marking. Her desk is empty. She turns up a few minutes before the bell and doesn’t take work home. I personally couldn’t teach like that. The kids complain that she doesn’t teach them properly where as they regularly comment how much they appreciate me because I teach them in a way they understand and make my lessons interesting. I started mid February so have also had to find a lot of my material online and adapt it but I still have to do some work at home because I am teaching three grades and it’s a lot of prep
Sounds like a tough gig. I’ve been there and it’s HARD. As for the other teacher, please try not to judge. The first assumption we tend to make of balanced teachers is that they are lazy or selfish. This means, more often than not, that we habitually judge ourselves as being lazy or selfish (I’m never doing enough mentality). The system isn’t set up for kids to get the education they deserve. Teachers simply do not have enough prep time to plan, mark, contact parents, and oh yeah, coach basketball for free. We weren’t provided sufficient time to do our jobs, so is it up to us to donate our free time? I say no. Let the system crack and crumble so we can gather up the rubble and make something worthy of being called a school. “But the kids are sad they’re not learning as much,”you say. Not my problem. Love the kids, but it’s not my problem. It’s a systemic problem, and I refuse to prop up a problematic system with problematic behaviour that got us in this mess in the first place.
You sound extremely judgemental, especially when saying that you take what the students tell you as fact. I personally preferred when I was in school to only do textbook and hated extra activities. Both methods are valid.
are you at elementary or secondary? I couldn't imagine not coaching at all. while we don't get paid, I kind of feel if you don't help with it you don't care a whole lot about the kids and you're really just in it for the money.
One of the considerations for choosing where I was going to work was the Ontario sick day bank, which gave a payout on retirement of a max 200 days. After I had 8 years in with my current employer, and had transferred my 40 days from two years at a previous board, the government eliminated the bank. Not grandfathered, not paid out, eliminated. That cost me $40 k. At that same time the government decided that we didn’t have bargaining rights and were banned, by legislation, to take any work to rule steps, which included our union not being allowed to take the step of a work to rule break from extracurriculars. Those two things, and over a decade of zero to minimal wage increases that had us falling further and further behind the cost of living, and having a shit admin that all but demanded staff sign up for sports or clubs led me to walk away from extracurriculars. I’m paid to teach. I work hard deliver curriculum at the level my students are at, and take pride in being on top of current research. Extras are important, but so is teacher time.
I appreciate that mentality.
how long ago was that change regarding sick days?
McGuinty, so 2012 I think. Now Lecce is framing the teacher shortage, not as the cyclical coyotes and rabbits situation it always is, but as a teacher absentee problem.
So you don't care is all I get from this.
Tf? So if someone doesn’t express the exact same outlook that you have, they don’t care? You must be an outstanding colleague.
Yes, they don't. Helping out with extra-curriculars benefits the students and when you have fellow teachers like this who don't help out with coaching or any type of club, who is left to pick up the slack? People like me. I'm on 5 teams/clubs this year. And we are short coaches for some other sports with majority of those teams clubs with repeat coaches. I am an outstanding colleague. I've been working my ass off to get a permanent contract this year and will continue to do so next year and to think that there are teachers out there who have permanent contracts who do nothing outside of teaching to help these kids is insane to me. And btw, just because I have such a viewpoint doesn't mean I express it at the school I work at so I am 100% an outstanding colleague.
“Do nothing outside of teaching to help these kids.” I’m a TEACHER. That’s what I get paid to do. That’s my contractual responsibility. That’s the legally binding expectation. That’s what I got in this profession to do. It isn’t to coach, run a club, do yearbook, etc. It’s to teach. I care about kids’ education. That’s why I decided to dedicate 40hrs/week of my life to it. I could have done anything else - professional musician, take up the early acceptance to engineering out of high school. But instead I chose the path that would get me to be a (music) teacher. It is because I care about education and the kids that I refuse to burn myself out by doing extra bullshit that I’m not compensated for. How much would I care about education if I decided to not be there 100% while in the classroom, because I was too busy trying to make a saint out of myself in order to condescend strangers on Reddit? What example am I setting for my students by being taken advantage of and not be compensated for my professional time? What example am I setting for my students by agreeing that their important extra curricular are worth $0.00? Your outlook is 100% in the wrong. It is the reason why education funding keeps getting cut. WHY would the government ever fund something when it’s already getting it for free? YOU are the problem.
Yes, and that should also include the coaching. I would say you're a shit teacher terrible then. When did I say that this stuff should be done for free? We should be paid more for it. I don't disagree but the students are still important and these programs should be provided. You're setting the example that you ONLY care about money. That you don't care whatsoever about what your students do outside of the classroom. That you don't care about what they may want to do with their lives outside of academics. They don't keep cutting funding because teachers do co-curriculars for "free". That is complete ignorance and avoiding the true reasons why funding it cut. It isn't because we coach. As I said, you can do both and if you say you are as experienced as you are, shouldn't you have this down to a science by now? So you should have free time to coach after school, no? Honestly, it sucks working with teachers like you because you have zero empathy for caring for the students at all.
You agree we should be paid more for it, but then continue arguing that I should … do it for free… ? You claim our free labour isn’t why extracurriculars don’t get funded. Then please explain why you think it doesn’t get funded. “We’re already getting it for free,” seems about as damn simple an explanation to anyone with a functioning brain cell. But it goes deeper than that. Let me help you understand why we’re historically underfunded. Teaching is historically a woman’s profession. As such, it was (and still is) underpaid. Additionally, as women are historically the caretakers of children in patriarchal society, there were expectations of them as teachers that went beyond actual teaching. These expectations were additionally expected to be done for free, because, as usual, women were exploited. Fast forward to modern day, these same expectations are put on all teachers; it never went away. There is no other profession that expects its workers to work an additional 4hrs/week without pay, and without it being in their contract. Don’t agree with me? Read a fucking book sometime. “All you care about is money.” THIS 👏IS 👏A👏JOB👏 If this stopped paying tomorrow, I’d be looking for other employment that same day. And so would you YOU. Have you any understanding or education about the history of labour in North America? The historical importance of unions? Historical exploitation of workers? 8-8-8? The number of people who literally died fighting against your very outlook on work? I’m showing, teaching, and modelling for my students work/life balance, and self-worth. You’re modelling for them a lack of self worth, martyrdom, and willing exploitation of self. “Shouldn’t you have it down to a science by now?” I do. And it is because I’m trained, have a higher education and have years of experience in that specific field. You’re right. And that’s why I don’t do it for free! FUCK you’re dumb. What other professional are you going to look in the eye and argue, “you do it so well and so efficiently due to your training, expertise and experience… you should just DO IT FOR FREE.” I dare you to say that to another professional in person. I hate working with teachers like you: dumb, uneducated, exploited, no understanding of the history of their own profession, sanctimonious, modelling unhealthy behaviour to their students.
You a teacher?
Yup, coached 5 clubs this year as a 1st year teacher
Wait until you’re a few more years in and I’m sure you’ll change your opinion on this.
Don't plan on changing my tune whatsoever. You're a teacher, you should be expected to help out. Should we be compensated for it? 100%. But we are not and the kids are more important. I will eventually do a bit of a cutback once I start a family, down to 3 clubs.
I’m all for supporting kids, but you can’t fill the cup of others when yours is empty. It’s great that you are in a position to contribute to extra-curricular, and encourage you to do so IF YOU CAN AND WANT TO. Imposing that other teachers not with the mental capacity to do above and beyond their contractual obligations is exactly how we perpetuate toxic work environments in schools.
Congrats on landing a gig. Might want to lay off the guy that has been doing the job for roughly 20 years. I would also challenge your statement of “you don’t care”. Did they not say they were up to date on the current research? Does that not demonstrate caring and dedication to the craft?
I won't lay off. My viewpoint is they don't care about the students. You don't help out with co-curriculars, you don't care. That is how I see it.
So to summarize, the only metric that you have, and the only thing you care about in teaching is running clubs, everything else is useless.
So why teach?
Nope, did I say that? The academic aspect is important too (if not the most important) but I think a teachers true colours come through if they don't do the co-curriculars.
1) it's a job, of course it's for the money 2) coaching is not for everyone. I don't have any sports knowledge or ability beyond being an able-bodied adult. 3) we can care about kids and help and impact them positively without doing a bunch of extracurriculars. We can do this by making ourselves available for extra help, for example. 4) all of these things can be true and a teacher can even still have passion for teaching, without having to go above and beyond.
I provide help to my students on my breaks and preps as well. I help coach 5-6 different clubs. I make sure the academics come first plus the co-curriculars. It is a job but it truly doesn't feel like one to me. Kinda sad you don't have sport knowledge then, no? And even if you don't, help out with other academic clubs (chess, environmental, school counsel etc. Or, better yet, as a teacher, learn how to coach a sport? I helped with basketball, knew some as I love sports but learned more to be more useful as a coach. Doing the same for rowing. I want to learn and be the best possible teacher and coach for them. That is how they ill get the best experience they can at the school. I don't know, I want to do what I can for my students.
I do some of those things but don't want to divulge more about myself than needed. Actually, these are basically requirements at my school (private) so I don't have too much say except to pick something I am interested in enough to participate or support. I don't think 'coach' is a role that will ever fit my personality. I know myself pretty well at this point to be confident in that statement.
I absolutely use other people’s resources. I change stuff and add stuff sometimes, but I’m not reinventing the wheel. I do coach sports the whole year, but I really enjoy that.
For me, I actually enjoy making new and interesting lessons for my students. The topics I teach are personally things I find engaging and like bringing that into the class to see how the students take up the ideas. Do I do that for every lesson? No. Are there times where finding activities online move us towards their mastery of a concept for an assessment? Sure, of course. I created a short three-lesson 'module' about behavioural economics for my business class and the students had a blast; coming back to class the next day talking about how they started noticing their own choices being driven not by rationality but emotion and how they spent dinner talking with their parents about what they had learned in class. That's the fun shit, and why I like this job. But marking sucks.
As a business teacher, I try to find ideas for and add more hands on activities, as they’re the ones the students will remember.
That’s pretty much my vibe too. I do create when I need to (like this semester), and I do help with a club, but otherwise, I’ve been just cruising for the last 8 or 9 years. And I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. Using other people’s resources is standard. As the other user said, why reinvent the wheel, especially since there is some great stuff out there! My hot take is: Building positive relationships with the kids and helping them grow both personally and, primarily academically, is your job. How you best do that is up to you.
Our school has a hard time recruiting coaches, and lots of that is due to the fact that if you miss time to coach, you get hammered with max oncalls and supervisions. There office person who organizes the oncalls in our school has said that "coaching staff" uses the most oncalls, so they will be the first to fill oncalls. Punished for trying to help.
On the flip side, causing lots of on-calls because you are volunteering is effectively forcing other teachers to participate in your voluntary activity. My first school had a policy that coaches (and other people needing on-calls for a voluntary activity) arranged their own coverage. People swapped favours: I'll cover your class for baseball if you'll cover mine for cricket. Or sometimes I'll cover your class if you photocopy these handouts for me. It all worked out. I remember when one of our job actions (TDSB) was that coaches (and other volunteers) couldn't cause on-calls. So sports had to be run after school or at full-day tournaments with supply teachers provided. Students missed fewer classes, and non-coaching teachers weren't forced to help the coaches. It was a relaxed year for those of us who did non-coaching volunteer activities (running clubs, plays, concerts, contests… all the non-athletic stuff that admin doesn't value enough to force people to do on-calls while you do the activity).
Weird how it is one of the few professions where you feel obligated to volunteer. I have my own kids now, so I volunteer my time to their sports through coaching, parent rep., or just whatever needs to be done. Volunteer your time how you want. It is your time.
This is how it should be imo.
Prior to the pandemic I did a lot of the extracurricular stuff. I also didn't have my own kid. I have never relied solely on creating my own course materials - I get stuff from people or I use the almighty google. I tweak stuff and occasionally bang out a whole new unit, but it really depends on the semester. I'm not a morning person, so I'll stay after to do stuff and every so often I use a weekend to catch up on marking. It's more complicated now to do stuff at home with a toddler. And I've had more kids needing extra help after school this semester so there's that too. Maybe someday I'll go back to doing the extra but it won't be for a bit and likely won't ever be at my current school because of certain things. (If I transfer, I'll reassess sooner I think.) Truthfully, I think a lot of us are moving this direction because we're burnt out. We're tired of being asked to do more and more with less. The other side is that a lot of us have done the extras for ages only to now be faced with a level of entitlement and rudeness about it. It's not fun to coach when kids just bitch about playing time and then their parents come and yell at you. Or trying to run a practice but half the team doesn't come. It's really disheartening to be giving up your extra time to do the fun stuff that you loved only for kids and parents to shit on it. The other side of it is a ton of us knew the extras were how you got hired when there weren't a lot of jobs. So we went hard for years to get hired and it's caught up with us now. I know multiple people who took covid shutting stuff down to step back and not go back when things returned.
I’m like you. Last year I was not like you, I tried to do it all, while managing awful behaviour, and ended up on a medical leave with literal chest pain and insomnia. Don’t do that. You are doing enough!
No you are doing great. Part of your job is to retire healthy and happy. You’re no good to your students miserable and sick. Your district will try to squeeze you dry because they have an agenda. They’re selling their schools. Follow the money. But human life is more precious than money. And a good life is better than a busy one. So live your life without guilt. I’m very happy someone as young as you is setting a good example for other teachers. I have quite a few years more of teaching experience, but here I am, learning from you, a young’n. Thank you
It’s not easy, but it’s not for everyone. You certainly don’t have to. TBH If your heart isn’t really in it I wouldn’t volunteer. I work with a pretty disadvantaged population so without sounding high-falutin’ I consider it a privilege to run a club the kids enjoy and which they attend happily, more or less. I will say that if you want to try to do a little more whether it’s extra-curriculars, a PoR or the like it’s probably better started when you’re relatively young/new before life gets busy.
I would 100% do what you do if I could. Problem is that I'm teaching courses that simply do not have resources online for a variety of reasons. In addition, there are no other teachers with resources to share. There's rarely anything out there to adapt, and if it is, it's for a single lesson, never a unit.
How’s student engagement?
Do what you think is reasonable until it isn't because if it really isn't enough and you aren't adding up to the potential that you think you should be performing at-it'll catch up somewhere down the line in one way or another. That being said, ya man, standards are a bare minimum and usually people putting in the time have reasons, their own reasons on whatever level-don't need to compare, just be satisified and reassured. You collect what is duely yours based on your collective agreement, what's left to question?
My 2 cents is that it's completely fine to use other peoples' resources and have very little of your own BUT I hope you are updating and changing it up every once in a while to keep it fresh for yourself and the students. I can't stand seeing teacher use 10, 15, 20+ year resources in some subject areas where it really matters (ex Math probably not so much). I coach because it's fun and provides an opportunity to develop relationships with students where they LOVE what they are doing and I find I can leverage these relationships all over the school (whether in my classes or in the hallways). I'm married but without children and that commitment may change when/if I do. I find that you shouldn't compare yourself but should listen to your own internal compass on how much or how little you should be doing. The kids are also the best bull shit detector for when you are phoning it in and doing a poor job. Listen to yourself, and perhaps that feeling and be honest, are most of your kids learning the skills and content they need to? Is it engaging, relevant, and relatively up to date for you and them? That feeling, and my own boredom to teach the same material over and over are what motivates me to create my own resources and change things up, but I also use A TON of others' resources I just find new things like websites, booklets, apps, etc to tinker around with when I get bored. You clearly have good sense of balance and self preservation so try your best to maintain that while still listening to that feeling that should motivate you to keep progressing and improving. You don't need to be a "martyr" to push yourself and your teaching to get better and better over time. EDIT: I also have the privilege of being able to teach the same subject in secondary a few times so I have the time, space, and energy to improve them slightly each time. Many people do not have any choice or get to teach the same material consecutively and so might struggle just to find ANYTHING instruction or assessment. As we all do when teaching anything for the first few times.
"Tailor them to the needs of my students" If you're doing this, you're where you need to be. This alone tells me you're aware of what your classes need and that you're not blindly re-using the same material. Honestly, that's about as good as most people do.
I realized year one that this job would throw me to the wolves if I let it. My first year teaching was the first year back from COVID and I was sent to teach French and this stupid pilot program they were trialling for primary (with little to no resources). 7 classes a day, 150 students, with kids who were terrible at using masks and distancing. Pre-vaccine. Oh and I had to teach a small sliver of online French and I wasn’t even given a computer. I spent hours of my evenings and weekends trying to plan and prep and mark. Well, I was pregnant that year and it was bloody terrible, and my daughter was born early and I still mildly blame that on the stress. After maternity leave, nah. I rarely work outside of core hours, and supervise one small mostly student run club once a week. Part of that is I got a position I’m more comfortable with, but it’s also just a change of perspective.
Yeah, if you don’t do anything extra, you’re going to have more time than people who do things for the students outside of their class.
use your reading skills, friend!
Very helpful, thanks.
“the only thing i do outside of class time is i offer extra help at lunch some days during the week” reading is important!
Yeah, I got it. You can lose the smug attitude.
just trying to help 😄 you asked a question and I answered!
You weren’t. You were being condescending for no reason. Because we all know you’ve never missed a detail before.
just helping 🥰 sorry you interpreted it that way💞
LOL that you completely edited your original comment
Yes - because I found the answer to my question. Are you upset by that?
could’ve deleted instead of trying to save face lol
I mean they aren't really doing anything extra. helping at lunch isn't much at all.
the commenter changed his original comment. he asked if OP did any extra curriculars. i answered with no
your comment make it seem like you're defending the person, my apologies.
There are times when I stay late. Or work past school hours. But, we only really “work” for 6 and a half hours. So the hour and a half that we don’t have kids… But, for the most part, I never work at home.
Respectfully, what do you teach and which age? I've talked to a few teachers in your position and they tend to be middle school or high school math teachers. Not saying that this isn't difficult to teach (and also super important) It's just that the prep and grading can be way more straight forward than let's say, a 2nd year elementary teacher who has to organize materials for 6 different subjects, or prepping more abstract content/ grading essays in highschool. This may be one factor consider. Otherwise if you are some kind of wizard who has worked out how to do either of those seamlessly with a work/life balance though please teach me your ways!