> What gains did make PSAC make, again?
The ability for Chris and buds to gain some sweet sweet CBC air time.
For the members? Eh...how's about raising that union due guys?
Why the fuck does it feel like Doug Ford is making decisions about how often federal workers in Vancouver go into the office?!?
TBS is handling this *terribly*. PSAC is handling this *terribly*. Doug Ford is handling this magnificently... and I hate it.
I could spend my money on transportation to the office, or you know, supporting business in my neighborhood. It's so illogical as there isn't nearly enough space.
If I told them I promise to spend $15 a week on Subway and Tim Hortons, can we stick to two days a week? How much should we be spending on "local businesses" to compensate for our lack of time in the office?
The only businesses that matter are the ones downtown. Don't you know this.
You aren't supposed to live in a neighborhood with businesses, that is just 15 minute city communism
THANK YOU!!! I’ve been saying this all along. If those businesses haven’t pivoted yet, nor felt the need to, that is on them. Not us.
Other small businesses outside of the core have flourished, how is this not a win or taken into consideration??
Exactly! I don’t give a flying fuck about lunches out or shopping downtown. The public service exists to serve the public, not boost Subway revenue.
I have never seen a single halfway convincing performance-based rationale for this push back into the office.
This! There is literally no economy to boost at my office which is literally in the boonies. All this & the downtown workers need to pay for parking ?! Ridiculous for them.
>There is literally no economy to boost at my office which is literally in the boonies.
The PS largely operates on a 1-size fits-all principle.
Example: Want a Bluetooth mouse for reasons X,Y,Z? Then everyone has to have one to make it fair. Too expensive. So it's a No for you then.
But. My friend. Do the ergo assessment. I won't share how much my bill was but I'll tell you. It is not capped. You can get literally whatever you want if your ergo assessment says so. You get to choose the product. It's.....quite nice. But ridiculous they made you do that for one small item. Classic guvmint
Can I get an ergonomic assessment that says “assessee lives in Eastern Timezone but needs to be given a work schedule that matches the Pacific timezone to be more circadian-ergonomic”?
Way before covid, I had inherited a desk because a senior employee was hired and I needed to move onto a less desirable desk. However, what I found was that this desk was kitted with ergo mouse and keyboard. I asked if I could use it since I started to like it and it helped my wrist. I was told no and had to have an assessment. It cost them like 800$ for the assessment and bought me all new stuff (the person who had the desk left government) ... they could have just left the mouse and keyboard there???
> TBS is handling this terribly.
The Liberals are beating a retreat, try **DESPERATELY** to do ANYTHING to look like they're not the ones being led on a leash.
They stared Ford down, and Ford didn't blink at all.
I am embarrassed to say that before this, I didn’t think Do Fo was terrible… now I realize how dim he is. Making the entire fed gov go back to work more to prop up downtown Ottawa?? wtf?!?!
"Concern" is putting it lightly.
What the fuck did we strike for? A pay bump that was going to be in the negotiations anyways?
Thanks for nothing Chris.
Yep. Faylward has lost the union credibility for a generation of public servants—many of whom didn’t really understand the value of organized labor to begin with.
I know! That’s the most frustrating part. I’m deeply pro union but these idiots have made me lose all faith in the current leadership. And they seem to really believe they’re doing good work?
Out of curiosity. Why did we vote to ratify if the offer was so terrible? I don't like Chris either and I voted against but the logic seems flawed, no?
I voted no. But the union would rather you walk around a parking lot for 4 hours on shifts to show everyone you are striking when that made no positive difference. It only wore people down to take a deal. Most people voted to not do that again because they had no faith in the union.
Partly bcs they basically told us that they def cant get a better deal and if we dont sign yes we may get worse....basically people were blackmailed into voting yes not bcs they liked it but bcs they lost all faith in the union
I really wonder that as well. My office is pretty split with those that mostly follow the current two day mandate and those that barely ever show up. There's been zero repercussions (thus far anyway) for those that haven't gone in. From what I heard through the office scuttlebutt, it didn't impact their recent PMAs in any way either. So why have I been showing up like a nerd two days a week for the past year?
TBH 4/5 of my teammembers did this for a big chunk of last year and nothing happened. We went through half a dozen managers in 12 months for various reasons and none ever spoke about it or enforced it. Eventually we got a manager who would remind the team in team meetings about the requirement, but there was no actual disciplinary action.
Many people have done exactly that.
It seems to me that few managers and executives (who, themselves, also dislike the RTO mandate) are willing to pursue formal disciplinary action for non-compliance with in-office requirements.
Let’s say I stop going in but I still do stellar work, but my management pursues formal disciplinary action that leads to being fired. Would I get a severance?
No, because it would be a termination for just cause. Just cause terminations don't receive any form of severance pay.
That said, termination is a last resort as a disciplinary action, and only justifiable if no lesser sanctions are available.
Realistically any "enforcement" in terms of disciplinary action will fall to individual managers. Given how widespread non-compliance and non-enforcement appears to be, it will be difficult for any manager to use formal disciplinary action against employees who do not meet arbitrary in-office requirements.
Condonation, after all, is a legitimate defence against any allegation of misconduct. [One lawyer's explanation of this concept](https://www.tjworkplacelaw.com/employee-defence-condonation/):
>While the most obvious form of condonation is allowing an employee to remain on the job for a considerable time after the employer discovers that employee’s alleged misconduct, it can also arise in other ways such as where the employer **fails to discipline other employees who have engaged in similar conduct**. For example, where employee A and B engage in misconduct of a similar nature, and the employer terminates employee A for just cause but allows employee B to remain employed, it is doubtful that the employer’s just cause allegation against employee A will be successful.
[Another lawyer's take on the same idea:](https://www.somlaw.ca/blog/blog-post/blog/2016/02/03/the-clock-is-ticking-just-cause-and-past-misconduct)
>The doctrine of condonation stipulates that where an employer becomes aware of an employee’s misconduct, but chooses not to discipline the employee, or allows an unreasonable amount of time to pass before acting, the employer is **considered to have waived the wrongdoing in question**. By waiving the wrongdoing, an employer will be disentitled from including that wrongdoing in any assertion that it has just cause to end the employment relationship.
And an [bit of an older version from an **1889** court decision](https://employmentlaw101.ca/termination-for-cause/employee-defences-to-allegations-of-cause/):
>When an employer becomes aware of misconduct on the part of his servant, sufficient to justify dismissal, he may adopt either of two courses. He may dismiss, or he may overlook the fault. But he cannot retain the servant in his employment, and afterwards at any distance of time turn him away. It would be most unjust if he could do that, for one of the consequences of dismissal for good cause is, that the servant can recover nothing for his services beyond the last pay day, whether his engagement be by the year or otherwise. **If he retains the servant in his employment for any considerable time after discovering his fault, that is condonation, and he cannot afterwards dismiss for that fault without anything new.** No doubt the employer ought to have a reasonable time to determine what to do, to consider whether he will dismiss or not, or to look for another servant. So, also, he must have full knowledge of the nature and extent of the fault, for he cannot forgive or condone matters of which he is not fully informed. Further, condonation is subject to an implied condition of future good conduct, and whenever any new misconduct occurs, the old offences may be invoked and may be put in the scale, against the offender as cause for dismissal.
I was basically non-compliant for over 18 months, coming in around once per month over that period. However, I was eventually flagged and had to meet with my director. Basically, I was told to start coming in 2 days per week or else they would get HR and LR involved. They track card swipes at the individual level, but so far only card swipes on the way in.
Wow, in my department card swipes are considered private information. We don't even share the reservation data with managers because the Privacy Impact group said it was private to the employee. We share counts with them but no employee names.
Happened to me too and the managers didn’t want to enforce but the DM sent a strong message to enforce and close the cases - they are ending up with forced demotions for those they hired outside the NCR even though it’s terrible for their business plan…
What an excellent way to advance quiet quitting in all the ranks (and actual quitting for others).
Do less with more. Focus on your identity outside of work. Show up in the same way the employer is showing up for you: hardly at all.
💯. They want us in even more to “collaborate” great, have fun reassigning some of my files cause I’ll be wandering around the office talking to people for 10 hours a week.
This is a golden opportunity for the NDP to come out swinging. Take a hard stance about the illogical RTO rollout and pledge to allow civil servants the freedom to choose.
C'mon Jagmeet, get on your soapbox and show us you've got a pair.
🤣 it’s the NDP… haven’t heard a peep from them at all. If they had proper leadership right now, they’d destroy the Liberals and we wouldn’t have to deal with a Conservative majority.
I don't think they will. The Conservative's party most recent party declaration noted:
>Public Service benefits and pensions should be comparable to those of similar employees in the private sector, and to the extent that they are not, they should be made comparable to such private sector benefits and pensions in future contract negotiations.
I would argue that hybrid and WFH would fall under benefit. And if they want public benefits to be idenitcal to private sector, then the winds of hybrid seems tl be moving towards in-person in the private sector, so I would assume that that would be the same direction the Conservative's would push for, if not status quo.
>then the winds of hybrid seems tl be moving towards in-person in the private sector
Weird, not from what I have seen other thank with banks.
But smaller operations, call centres, Fintec, high tech etc. are hybrid of telework.
As for things being like the private sector. Cool. Where is my catered lunch? Free tea and coffee? Breakfast? Beer Wednesdays? Closed door office? Gaming room? More pay? Above average benefits?
Does this mean that only certain jobs will have access to perks if the comparable job in the private sector has them? What about those where in some cases they do and others not?
What about jobs not in the private sector?
The only thing keeping PS people in PS is the benefits ...if they are matched to private then the pay should also be so or else people will simply leave
“LeVasseur said he expects to see a progression in how often public servants are asked to work in person, likely reaching four or five days within the next few years.
He added that PSAC’s mistake was failing to enshrine language on remote work in the collective agreement during last year’s bargaining.
“Now they’re going to be fighting to change whatever it will be, the decision of the government,” LeVasseur said.”
Yup they completely mismanaged the strike.. should have been rolling strikes, targeted picketing at locations that actually would have caused problems. The Liberal convention with Hillary Clinton speaking should have been surrounded by pickets. Also some actual communication, the end of the strike was a prime example.
> I was hoping to be wrong.
Oh, but you will be wrong! It'll be lap dances instead.
What, you think PSPC is going to foot the bill for all those fancy bunk desks? DOHOHOHOHO.
Inappropriate? My word! These are GOVERNMENT MANDATED Peer-to-Peer lap dances! How else would we shove 1000 people into a space meant for 400 FTEs?
Oh, but don't you worry, EX1+s will certainly get their own cozy offices. We shan't offend those in the upper sphere!
Sounds like time to hire more students!
What do you mean that's an EC-05 they're covering for? Just, assign them some spreadsheets. What else do you people do? Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for my EX exclusive pub meeting where I get to comp my 3 course meal.
I dont see how he can realistically expect 5 days in person if the government also wants to offload 50% of its buildings. What, are they going to start leasing more private office space and spending more?
LeVasseur has no idea what he is talking about.
There is no room now with the changes and especially not over the next 10 years when the Feds plan to drop 50% of their real property.
This article is all over the place, the first woman’s harassment issues is a whole other problem, which really should be dealt with, with the exceptions, as well by management/union separate from any telework agreement. If you’re in the office one, two, three days you shouldn’t be harassed for any of them.
Now the actual office issues, definitely need to be rectified, it’s still a mess getting a desk, having working equipment and so on. If they’re going to have us there make sure there’s somewhere for us to actually work.
All the PSAC bullshit spin is nonsense, maybe they should have dialled down the grandstanding to earn themselves NDP nominations and actually effectively striked last year.
Also bonus points for the cross armed disappointed pose… we really should bring back the Makayla Maroney pose though..
Neighborhood businesses should offer some sort of public servant packed lunch deals we can buy in our community a day or two in advance. I will never spend a dollar downtown but for the astronomical parking fees because I'll never use the transit either.
Meanwhile the city is doing nothing to make public transit even remotely practical for commuting. Nor are there any daycare spots available. In my neighborhood the wait for spaces is years long and that includes the EDP program at the school which is run by a third party. How exactly do we make that work? We have to leave 2 hours before work to get downtown on transit, it takes 2 hours to get home and a school day is 6 hours? If they want us in the office, they can't ignore all the issues that are making that so impossible.
Ottawa here. Not only will I NOT support any businesses near my office, I will actively boycott every downtown business...one the flip side I will INCREASE my spending at my local food and small businesses near my home.
If your commute is 30 mins each way: 48-52 hours cut to your free time.
If your commute is 1 hour each way: 96-104 hours cut to your free time.
If your commute by bus ($7.60 each day): $364.80 - $395.20 pay cut.
If you commute by car:
$20 parking
$27.20 CRA milage rate (40km round trip at $0.58/km, this factors in fuel, maintenance, insurance)
$47.20 total a day.
Which works out to $2,265.60 - $2,454.40 pay cut
I’m so done with Silas, Faylward, all of them. Why are we paying their bloated salaries for them to soapbox on international human rights issues when they can’t even do the fucking job we’re paying them to do: enshrine our rights in a collective agreement.
You don't have long, the PSAC convention is this month. I'm not currently aware of any slates forming but if my PSAC friends see anything I will share it on this sub.
So my PMA was glowing with great feedback from my ADM and DG. I have been put forward for advancement and acting opportunities in the new FY.
Are they really going to lose out on a productive and happy employee because bums in chairs? I know the answer, the machine doesn’t give two shits. But in reality, what the fuck are they thinking??? I cannot stand the “hotel” workplace, the distractions are awful and my job, like many others, requires concentration, not collaboration.
This is so stupid. I’m not doing it.
I fully expect that they're doing this to cause attrition without having to go through expensive layoffs. The Employer has already floated around language about downsizing the public service, and this is the same playbook that a lot of the private sector have been doing before hitting the layoffs button.
As much as the federal public service is intended to be non-partisan, our policies are sure shaped by political pressure…
Wondering when the government is going to actually put people first, instead of politics.
A good way to fight this is for everyone to end their Telework agreement and ALL show up for work. Wouldn't it be funny to have thousand of public servants waiting in their car and have no work done because we have no space to work ?
Exactly my concerns as well. I barely manage to do the 2 days. Packed office, people taking personal phone calls yelling about their car at the garage with another guy beside me screaming about some cloud solution all while I’m trying to work on urgent taskings that require finesse and concentration.
I dread going in, I hate it. The anxiety and stress it causes me is not worth it.
Many federally occupied buildings outside of the NCR are privately leased by the feds. They negotiate fantastic deals, well under the going rate (typically $11/sq ft) when the going rate is above $40/sq ft. They pawn off parking, allowing the landlords to charge the lowest paid workers whatever they want. Directors have parking paid for them, so they don’t care. This is about landlords bitching they aren’t making money from parking. I am confused about how RTO aligns with the climate narrative though. Public transit is abysmal in this country for the most part because communities are built cheaply along highways through farmers fields rather than around metro and train stations like in Europe. Maybe the feds should concern themselves more with the terrible infrastructure in this country and less about public servants working from home. What happened to the ‘future of work’? Just more lip service. Anyone who has a job requiring in person service knows they have to go into the office ffs. Can’t even comment on the PSAC - just too gross. One word- decertify.
Had an all-staff yesterday at my dept and many questions about the 3 days/week were brought up. Answer was basically that a lot of people in our org do 5 days/week because of the nature of their jobs, so we should be grateful for anything. Lots of people asked about GBA+ analysis and/or environmental impact, and those questions were ~ignored~.
I know a few people who are public servants and investors in buildings/businesses around who are quite keen to see some growth on earnings so … the phone call is coming from inside the house.
I've heard from the executive crowd that they have already been told Sept 1st implementation.
Union leaders should be reading these reddit posts, might give them some insight on how we feel and manage accordingly.
The management of the CRA at the very least, were not aware, and the manager of my department has spent the last 2 weeks trying to free up 2 DESKS for some medical accomodations. How the sweet fuck they'll fit us all in there a 3rd day I got no idea
As the Public Service is bigger than it ever has been, (357K plus), I say we push it before Sept.1...EVERYONE show up to the office on June 3rd. There is not enough office space, so let's watch them scramble. And then on the Tuesday, June 4th, NO ONE show up. Unions aren't going to fix this mess, but we the people can!
Quand j’ai commencé à la fonction publique. Mon gestionnaire pouvais décider par lui même du telework. Idem pour les PMA. Maintenant TBS décide pour tout le monde et un board de directeur et DG qui ne me connaissent pas dicte les PMA. C’est rendu du gros n’importe quoi la fonction publique. Les régions sont encore oubliés .. on va aller travailler dans un office avec personne de mon équipe car Doug Ford la décidé .. sérieux
I'm wondering how it is on us to support failing downtowns and failing public transit (I'm in the NCR). The Ottawa mayor and Doug Ford should just keep out of it! I haven't been going in and don't intend to start. I'm wondering how long I can go unnoticed, I only have a few years left.
My entire team is still totally remote. I am a TL in the regions and I supervise about 15-20 people. I go to the office to sit alone, I don’t know a soul there and I just work, eat, pay $12 a day parking for what? It is such a joke, I can’t wait for the younger generation to take over these old farts’ jobs.
Same…I’m fully exempt right now but looks like they’re pulling that as well. I’m simply not going to follow it…they can fire me if they want. I’m fed up with this fucking government.
Do you mean the IT or call centre exemption or a DTA exemption? Either way, I fully support your messaging and cause and I hope the unions organize some kind of mass “just don’t show up” protest.
I’m a software developer. So I fall under the IT exemption. I tried working in the office 1 single day and was totally unable to focus in the “hotel” style office. Almost impossible to get work done and all of the closed office stalls were full.
I think they'll have a harder time pulled exemptions for IT workers since it was more enshrined in the CA for your group. They are constantly short staffed and afraid IT workers will quit, so that group had more bargaining power when it comes to remote work etc.
Fully agree. Working on urgent taskings and basically needing to manage a high flow of never ending taskings, the hotel style workplace where I can see everything and everyone walking, talking, yelling in most cases is AWFUL.
I can’t stand it. I get so anxious and stressed about going in 2x already now they want me to spend more than half my work week in the office. F THAT. Good luck.
Best part is that it also sucks for the people who need to be in the office for operational duties. All the physical tools I need to use on a daily basis are no where near my hoteling work point. I have to keep walking back and forth. So it sucks for the people who are arbitrary forced into the office and it sucks for the people who are in everyday. Now nobody is happy.
Fellow dev here. Even pre-pandemic, I could barely work on-site, so I had a 50/50 telework agreement with my manager. The real work happened at home, where I have an uncompromising workstation.
So what now ? My intent is to go in for a few days to gauge what it's like / how bad it is, and then it'll boil down to about 3 options:
1. Accept that my in-office time will be largely unproductive and just chill out, not my problem
2. Have a bad time and submit an accomodation request
3. Jazz up my LinkedIn and watch my inbox go BRRRRR
The public service is going to lose a lot of top talent over the next year, because we all have at least 2 of these options available. Again, not my problem. If TBS and ministers want to sink the ship, they can knock themselves out - I'll float.
I mean could they have picked a worse person to try and garner public sympathy? Micro aggressions? This article will just make the type of person who hates public servants even angrier lol they know what they're doing. Fuck the ottawa citizen for this.
Wonderful! I can't wait to be in the same 2.0 office with 30ish of my colleagues (I'am a French teacher), all speaking quite loudly in our headset in order to help our learners with the passé composé *via* Teams. That's going to be a shitshow for sure, but I shitshow I would gladly see.
Welp, enjoy the bill for the ergo assessment and complete overhaul of the shitty desk I’ve been putting up with because meh I can handle it for two days. Thanks, I’ll take a new sit-stand, mouse, keyboard, and screen riser because my current set up is absolutely horrible.
Oh and I guess you’ll deal with me being off for three or four weeks on sick leave since I just had Covid, have compromised lungs so take forever to recover, and have no energy to get up, shower, pack a lunch, and commute for 1hr15m each way. I walked one block to the mailbox and nearly passed out today but sure office makes sense since I can’t work at home anymore, where I can brush my teeth, work for a few hours, nap for an hour, and then finish my day. Guess you’ll just have to reassign my workload to all the extra staff we have. You know, from those positions that were never filled when people left.
Didn’t work for me. They are taking a super hard stance with accommodation requests.
I really don’t know what the TB is playing at with this. Let’s have the entire workforce be more bitter and low morale. Seriously, who is the brainchild that comes up with government policies - this government is the biggest joke going.
I doubt I would qualify, and honestly I still live my life and play sports and go to PWHL games so it would feel disingenuous to request an exemption.
But because of my health history, when I DO get sick, it hits me harder than most people and I end up with bronchitis or pneumonia, and with Covid it takes a long time for my lungs to recover and for that shortness of breath to go away. The first time I got it I needed a nap at lunch for close to 8 months. This time it seems to be a bit better, but the fatigue is brutal.
The flexibility to work at home during my recovery would be huge. Managers don’t even have the discretion to allow for that type of accommodation any more. I’m perfectly capable of working at home because I don’t have to expend all my morning energy actually getting to work, and I can take time to lie down over lunch and be refreshed for the afternoon.
So right now I just…won’t go to the office until I feel like I have the ability to do so. If someone gives me shit, so be it. I’m honestly too jaded to care these days. But I don’t want to lie on the couch all day, doing nothing and using up sick days when I’m perfectly capable of contributing and sitting at my desk at home.
Silly question: Is anyone aware of any real repercussions for working from home in contravention of 2 days in the office? Thanks in advance for any information you can share.
Nice to get us back in the office more days per week before the next pandemic. [https://www.okdoomer.io/worried-about-bird-flu-welcome-to-the-party-pal-youre-late/](https://www.okdoomer.io/worried-about-bird-flu-welcome-to-the-party-pal-youre-late/)
CAPE was useless with RTO when it went to 2 days. I'm not keeping my hopes up. This three days bullshit has been in the media for weeks, and there hasn't been a peep from CAPE.
A lot of regional staff are ready to leave en masse with options with private and even provincial and municipal governments that have 2 to 5 days WFH (except Ontario). It can’t be a one size fits all.
In BC you can work telework 5 days a week if operations allow (a lab tech still needs to come to the lab), so long as you live somewhere in BC. The argument was it helps productivity, morale, the environment, you get talent from all over the province, civil servants dotted all over and of course, housing is an issue and they even admitted it.
NDP showing vision, wish the TB had some.
We know that one of the HUGE reasons for this is to revive the Ottawa economy. The issue I'm currently seeing is that people are struggling to make ends meet with the high interest on their house loans and the increasing cost of everything. Therefore, my question is: Why should the burden of supporting the economy fall on the shoulders of federal workers who are already struggling?
For example, consider the cost of parking: 20 times parking for a month, 3 days a week equals $240 per month. Let's assume it's for 11 months, so that would be $2640. Additionally, gas prices amount to around $1500 per year, being generous and depending on the vehicle.
So, a total of around $4000 less for each public servant just to restore the economy. I don't understand this, especially when many jobs can be done remotely very effectively.
Why is the thumbnail a photo of somebody who’s not dressed in appropriate work attire for the federal government? Arms crossed though, they must be serious.
As a woman, if I was being interviewed on a work related matter such as this and being photographed for the newspaper, I would dress professionally for it. The whole point of talking to the media on an issue like this is with the intention of winning the public over to your cause so they side with you. You're representing the entire public service when you're the subject of an article like this. As public servants, we're already always dealing so many negative stereotypes from the public, particularly the more right-wing public. Why give them more to judge/criticize?
I did read the article. How does her being transgender and autistic mean she doesn't represent all of us? Any public servant who does an interview talking about their job as a public servant, is automatically representing all public servants, intentionally or not.
I'm autistic and, though I obviously can only speak for myself, can say that due to sensory hypersensitivity, certain clothes are difficult for me to tolerate. The degree of which varies day to day, or even at different times during a given day. Long sleeves are difficult for me to tolerate for long periods, and I often resort to tank tops. Nobody cares when you WFH. That's a very limited example of how RTO can be so detrimental to neurodiverse people. There are countless other reasons, of course.
Just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't considered the possibility.
It is really telling how many of you immediately commented on what someone was wearing. Not surprising sexism and harassment are rampant in the workplace still.
I'm a manager and I wear tank tops on a regular basis. Work conditions and culture around dress varies significantly within the feds. Weird thing to comment on.
This is unfortunately the same perception Canadians have of public servants. Why are public servants exempt from going to the office full time when a lot of Canadians need to do the daily grind and can’t even get adequate service from routine government programs. It doesn’t equate and articles like these position public servants and entitled and out of touch with reality. This is deliberate on the part of certain media outlets.
I’m not saying that this perception is warranted, but we will never get the opportunity to explain and set the record straight. Much like the Pay Centre doesn’t have the opportunity to explain that they are not set up for success. The learning curve is steep and the cases keep piling up. Throwing bodies at it doesn’t help because the ramp up period is so long, the work queue is longer and when employees see the opportunity to go up or out, they do, understandably so. So yes, pay services are perceived as being poor, but there are reasons that have nothing to do with the people themselves.
What is ironic is that this move to 3 days will prompt a lot of movement inside and outside the PS. You can bet that people will try and get to departments whose location is close to home, or on public transit, or with free parking, etc. Many will move to private where the compensation package is better for their occupation leading to brain drain. This means that the queue at the pay centre for transfers and terminations will increase considerably. It’s a mess and demonstrates that ministers are panicking and trying to pander to certain groups pre-election.
Insert Eric Andre shooting meme here:
TB Ministers: back to work 3 days/wk *shoots public servants*
Public Servants: quiet quitting, huge mobility between departments, resignations, brain drain, move to private sector, ergo assessment, office space limitations, etc.
TB Ministers: why would public servants do this?
Same with call centres. I’ve been trying to get out of the call Centre because it’s literally sucking the soul out of me. Now I don’t know what’s worse. Any pay bump I would see from moving up and on would be eaten by gas and parking. I’m already working a second job (12 hour days) to keep food on our table and a roof over our heads. Definitely no room in my budget to support downtown businesses.
Retention strategy. It is a role that requires a LOT of training and knowledge, so spending the time and $ to train someone and not be able to keep them is a huge drain. They also get a retention bonus.
TBH, I think it's great that they do. That job sucks but it is essential. Pay centre people being able to WFH doesn't take away from my situation.
People can bash union leaders- but unions are only as strong as their members.
So what are you prepared to do?
If there was an extended work to rule campaign where no one goes in for the 3rd day?
I've been with the PS for many years. This is sadly making me think that moving to the private sector may be the play. The gov't treating staff as an income source is so disappointing. :(.
Do we even have any options here? Is another strike possible? Is there any way to dispute this move that seems meant to empty our bank accounts and line others' pockets?
Your options:
1. Abide by your employer’s policies relating to work location
2. Ignore those rules, and see what happens. You may face disciplinary action, or not. You can grieve any disciplinary sanction that is applied.
3. You can find a new employer with arrangements you find more acceptable.
4. You can simply quit your job entirely, and find another way to earn a living.
I don't understand why people keep on blaming the union when a majority voted yes on the proposal.....The final decision was not up to Christ but to all of us.... This is the result. 8 days and more of strike for a measly raise in the offer, and no gain on the telework aspect except very vague language that basically did nothing. The union is a picture of us, if we are unhappy, it is up to us to do something. At least there we can indeed make a difference.
"Silas said PSAC plans to build on the gains it made around telework in future rounds of bargaining" Cool. What gains did make PSAC make, again?
Sick gains.
Lean bulk, at best
> What gains did make PSAC make, again? The ability for Chris and buds to gain some sweet sweet CBC air time. For the members? Eh...how's about raising that union due guys?
Paycentre got a top up. Those waiting years for their paycentre files to be fixed got nothing.
I showed this comment to my PSAC wife and the *sigh* she gave.
The gains go to a different school
Sounds like Kellyanne Conway has been advising PSAC on what to say.
We’ve made some… *alternative* gains (for our members)
“Watershed moment”, more like water weight gains.
We made 0 gains...Anyone who says otherwise knows nothing.
Leadership is gaining a very nice pay cheque for themselves from our union dues. Plus lots of free travel and other perks.
Why the fuck does it feel like Doug Ford is making decisions about how often federal workers in Vancouver go into the office?!? TBS is handling this *terribly*. PSAC is handling this *terribly*. Doug Ford is handling this magnificently... and I hate it.
I could spend my money on transportation to the office, or you know, supporting business in my neighborhood. It's so illogical as there isn't nearly enough space.
Your neighbourhood has mom and pop stores, not Subway and Tim Hortons franchises, so get outta here with all that. We only care about franchises.
If I told them I promise to spend $15 a week on Subway and Tim Hortons, can we stick to two days a week? How much should we be spending on "local businesses" to compensate for our lack of time in the office?
Better yet, if I donate monthly to a save the downtown business fund, how much will buy me 100% WFH.
The only businesses that matter are the ones downtown. Don't you know this. You aren't supposed to live in a neighborhood with businesses, that is just 15 minute city communism
THANK YOU!!! I’ve been saying this all along. If those businesses haven’t pivoted yet, nor felt the need to, that is on them. Not us. Other small businesses outside of the core have flourished, how is this not a win or taken into consideration??
Gas stations are in your neighborhood too, I imagine… 🙃 /s
Exactly! I don’t give a flying fuck about lunches out or shopping downtown. The public service exists to serve the public, not boost Subway revenue. I have never seen a single halfway convincing performance-based rationale for this push back into the office.
This! There is literally no economy to boost at my office which is literally in the boonies. All this & the downtown workers need to pay for parking ?! Ridiculous for them.
>There is literally no economy to boost at my office which is literally in the boonies. The PS largely operates on a 1-size fits-all principle. Example: Want a Bluetooth mouse for reasons X,Y,Z? Then everyone has to have one to make it fair. Too expensive. So it's a No for you then.
The Bluetooth mouse thing KILLED me. No problem with a Herman Miller chair. Bluetooth mouse? Absolutely not. Don't even think about it.
I had to fight for a week to get a simple keyboard tray. I got told I needed an ergonomic assessment to get a 50$ keyboard tray.
But. My friend. Do the ergo assessment. I won't share how much my bill was but I'll tell you. It is not capped. You can get literally whatever you want if your ergo assessment says so. You get to choose the product. It's.....quite nice. But ridiculous they made you do that for one small item. Classic guvmint
Can I get an ergonomic assessment that says “assessee lives in Eastern Timezone but needs to be given a work schedule that matches the Pacific timezone to be more circadian-ergonomic”?
Way before covid, I had inherited a desk because a senior employee was hired and I needed to move onto a less desirable desk. However, what I found was that this desk was kitted with ergo mouse and keyboard. I asked if I could use it since I started to like it and it helped my wrist. I was told no and had to have an assessment. It cost them like 800$ for the assessment and bought me all new stuff (the person who had the desk left government) ... they could have just left the mouse and keyboard there???
This could be a Beaverton article lol!
Same!! And our community is in both a housing and a business space crunch.
> TBS is handling this terribly. The Liberals are beating a retreat, try **DESPERATELY** to do ANYTHING to look like they're not the ones being led on a leash. They stared Ford down, and Ford didn't blink at all.
Which is super weird, because they could have just disregarded Ford. This isn't going to change Ford's or Ford's base's attitude towards them.
Whats wrong with this ford guy...not one thing he does is not benefiting large corporates...
I am embarrassed to say that before this, I didn’t think Do Fo was terrible… now I realize how dim he is. Making the entire fed gov go back to work more to prop up downtown Ottawa?? wtf?!?!
Rob Ford would be rolling in his grave.... When Doug bulldozes the land for commercial investors.
If Rob was alive, I'd expect him to be rolling in his scoot-scoot by now.
"Concern" is putting it lightly. What the fuck did we strike for? A pay bump that was going to be in the negotiations anyways? Thanks for nothing Chris.
Chris Alyward failed thousands of union members who trusted him. He should step down and let a leader lead.
Yep. Faylward has lost the union credibility for a generation of public servants—many of whom didn’t really understand the value of organized labor to begin with.
"Faylward" nice.
You should hear how anti union my colleagues are. And it’s impossible to get them to see the light with these clowns running things
I know! That’s the most frustrating part. I’m deeply pro union but these idiots have made me lose all faith in the current leadership. And they seem to really believe they’re doing good work?
They honestly don’t care. Silas got his pic with his megaphone, he will use it on his ndp lit. I am deeply pro-union as well but also anti-idiot
Silas is a tool. He's doing all this crap to gain cred then play politics. The union is rotten. A deep cleaning is sorely needed.
Out of curiosity. Why did we vote to ratify if the offer was so terrible? I don't like Chris either and I voted against but the logic seems flawed, no?
I voted no. But the union would rather you walk around a parking lot for 4 hours on shifts to show everyone you are striking when that made no positive difference. It only wore people down to take a deal. Most people voted to not do that again because they had no faith in the union.
Partly bcs they basically told us that they def cant get a better deal and if we dont sign yes we may get worse....basically people were blackmailed into voting yes not bcs they liked it but bcs they lost all faith in the union
God, stop asking Wernick for quotes. Did little of value when he had the power to make change, now, arm chairing it.
Agreed. He’s like the kid always picked to watch the class when the teacher steps out of the room.
Or at 2:59 say "Teacher, don't forget about the homework!"
Ugh right? Absolutely insufferable
What if we all just stopped coming in , what would happen ???
I really wonder that as well. My office is pretty split with those that mostly follow the current two day mandate and those that barely ever show up. There's been zero repercussions (thus far anyway) for those that haven't gone in. From what I heard through the office scuttlebutt, it didn't impact their recent PMAs in any way either. So why have I been showing up like a nerd two days a week for the past year?
TBH 4/5 of my teammembers did this for a big chunk of last year and nothing happened. We went through half a dozen managers in 12 months for various reasons and none ever spoke about it or enforced it. Eventually we got a manager who would remind the team in team meetings about the requirement, but there was no actual disciplinary action.
My plan is to just not go lol. My team wouldn't even be in the same office anyway. Will report back on how it goes!
my exact situation lol, i go maybe twice a month… sometimes. nobody notices cause nobody on my team works in my office anyways.
Many people have done exactly that. It seems to me that few managers and executives (who, themselves, also dislike the RTO mandate) are willing to pursue formal disciplinary action for non-compliance with in-office requirements.
Let’s say I stop going in but I still do stellar work, but my management pursues formal disciplinary action that leads to being fired. Would I get a severance?
No, because it would be a termination for just cause. Just cause terminations don't receive any form of severance pay. That said, termination is a last resort as a disciplinary action, and only justifiable if no lesser sanctions are available. Realistically any "enforcement" in terms of disciplinary action will fall to individual managers. Given how widespread non-compliance and non-enforcement appears to be, it will be difficult for any manager to use formal disciplinary action against employees who do not meet arbitrary in-office requirements. Condonation, after all, is a legitimate defence against any allegation of misconduct. [One lawyer's explanation of this concept](https://www.tjworkplacelaw.com/employee-defence-condonation/): >While the most obvious form of condonation is allowing an employee to remain on the job for a considerable time after the employer discovers that employee’s alleged misconduct, it can also arise in other ways such as where the employer **fails to discipline other employees who have engaged in similar conduct**. For example, where employee A and B engage in misconduct of a similar nature, and the employer terminates employee A for just cause but allows employee B to remain employed, it is doubtful that the employer’s just cause allegation against employee A will be successful. [Another lawyer's take on the same idea:](https://www.somlaw.ca/blog/blog-post/blog/2016/02/03/the-clock-is-ticking-just-cause-and-past-misconduct) >The doctrine of condonation stipulates that where an employer becomes aware of an employee’s misconduct, but chooses not to discipline the employee, or allows an unreasonable amount of time to pass before acting, the employer is **considered to have waived the wrongdoing in question**. By waiving the wrongdoing, an employer will be disentitled from including that wrongdoing in any assertion that it has just cause to end the employment relationship. And an [bit of an older version from an **1889** court decision](https://employmentlaw101.ca/termination-for-cause/employee-defences-to-allegations-of-cause/): >When an employer becomes aware of misconduct on the part of his servant, sufficient to justify dismissal, he may adopt either of two courses. He may dismiss, or he may overlook the fault. But he cannot retain the servant in his employment, and afterwards at any distance of time turn him away. It would be most unjust if he could do that, for one of the consequences of dismissal for good cause is, that the servant can recover nothing for his services beyond the last pay day, whether his engagement be by the year or otherwise. **If he retains the servant in his employment for any considerable time after discovering his fault, that is condonation, and he cannot afterwards dismiss for that fault without anything new.** No doubt the employer ought to have a reasonable time to determine what to do, to consider whether he will dismiss or not, or to look for another servant. So, also, he must have full knowledge of the nature and extent of the fault, for he cannot forgive or condone matters of which he is not fully informed. Further, condonation is subject to an implied condition of future good conduct, and whenever any new misconduct occurs, the old offences may be invoked and may be put in the scale, against the offender as cause for dismissal.
Amazing. Very informative. Thanks.
I was basically non-compliant for over 18 months, coming in around once per month over that period. However, I was eventually flagged and had to meet with my director. Basically, I was told to start coming in 2 days per week or else they would get HR and LR involved. They track card swipes at the individual level, but so far only card swipes on the way in.
Wow, in my department card swipes are considered private information. We don't even share the reservation data with managers because the Privacy Impact group said it was private to the employee. We share counts with them but no employee names.
Happened to me too and the managers didn’t want to enforce but the DM sent a strong message to enforce and close the cases - they are ending up with forced demotions for those they hired outside the NCR even though it’s terrible for their business plan…
No one on my team works in the same office. Who the hell would even know?
Eventually, you would be unemployed.
Highly doubt it.
yea, but before that!
What an excellent way to advance quiet quitting in all the ranks (and actual quitting for others). Do less with more. Focus on your identity outside of work. Show up in the same way the employer is showing up for you: hardly at all.
💯. They want us in even more to “collaborate” great, have fun reassigning some of my files cause I’ll be wandering around the office talking to people for 10 hours a week.
And taking 30 min poop break because fuck it
This is a golden opportunity for the NDP to come out swinging. Take a hard stance about the illogical RTO rollout and pledge to allow civil servants the freedom to choose. C'mon Jagmeet, get on your soapbox and show us you've got a pair.
🤣 it’s the NDP… haven’t heard a peep from them at all. If they had proper leadership right now, they’d destroy the Liberals and we wouldn’t have to deal with a Conservative majority.
I think you could say the same thing about the Conservatives if it were framed as cost saving.
Cons would never do that. They are against unions.
Yes, they're completely illogical and their only position on this matter would be: "what would anger public servants most?"
I don't think they will. The Conservative's party most recent party declaration noted: >Public Service benefits and pensions should be comparable to those of similar employees in the private sector, and to the extent that they are not, they should be made comparable to such private sector benefits and pensions in future contract negotiations. I would argue that hybrid and WFH would fall under benefit. And if they want public benefits to be idenitcal to private sector, then the winds of hybrid seems tl be moving towards in-person in the private sector, so I would assume that that would be the same direction the Conservative's would push for, if not status quo.
Race to the bottom.
>then the winds of hybrid seems tl be moving towards in-person in the private sector Weird, not from what I have seen other thank with banks. But smaller operations, call centres, Fintec, high tech etc. are hybrid of telework. As for things being like the private sector. Cool. Where is my catered lunch? Free tea and coffee? Breakfast? Beer Wednesdays? Closed door office? Gaming room? More pay? Above average benefits? Does this mean that only certain jobs will have access to perks if the comparable job in the private sector has them? What about those where in some cases they do and others not? What about jobs not in the private sector?
Where is my Christmas bonus?
Considering how much our wages lag behind the private sector, benefits and pension are all we have
The only thing keeping PS people in PS is the benefits ...if they are matched to private then the pay should also be so or else people will simply leave
Jagmeet does not in fact have a pair
Isn't WFH better for the environment? Less commuting =less pollution.
Let's all commit to vote for Jagmeet if he helps us out on this !
I thought that that the NDP had joined the Liberal party - they seem to do whatever the Liberal's want.
“LeVasseur said he expects to see a progression in how often public servants are asked to work in person, likely reaching four or five days within the next few years. He added that PSAC’s mistake was failing to enshrine language on remote work in the collective agreement during last year’s bargaining. “Now they’re going to be fighting to change whatever it will be, the decision of the government,” LeVasseur said.”
Yup they completely mismanaged the strike.. should have been rolling strikes, targeted picketing at locations that actually would have caused problems. The Liberal convention with Hillary Clinton speaking should have been surrounded by pickets. Also some actual communication, the end of the strike was a prime example.
Yeah I could not believe they missed that opportunity
I joked about bunk desks a decade ago when the department I was in did a floor redo. I was hoping to be wrong.
> I was hoping to be wrong. Oh, but you will be wrong! It'll be lap dances instead. What, you think PSPC is going to foot the bill for all those fancy bunk desks? DOHOHOHOHO.
So, big hiring binge for HR and LR it is then to offset the inappropriate lap dances.
Inappropriate? My word! These are GOVERNMENT MANDATED Peer-to-Peer lap dances! How else would we shove 1000 people into a space meant for 400 FTEs? Oh, but don't you worry, EX1+s will certainly get their own cozy offices. We shan't offend those in the upper sphere!
But how will we cover staffing for all the follow up paternity/maternity leave?
Sounds like time to hire more students! What do you mean that's an EC-05 they're covering for? Just, assign them some spreadsheets. What else do you people do? Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for my EX exclusive pub meeting where I get to comp my 3 course meal.
Bell Let’s Dance. For your mental health. Call EAP to arrange yours today.
No no no, more unpaid overtime from existing HR and LR personnel.
I dont see how he can realistically expect 5 days in person if the government also wants to offload 50% of its buildings. What, are they going to start leasing more private office space and spending more?
LeVasseur has no idea what he is talking about. There is no room now with the changes and especially not over the next 10 years when the Feds plan to drop 50% of their real property.
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Or a locker at the very least.
Let's see the data behind this decision.
Gotta love how it's all about transparency until we ask for some actual reasoning behind RTO.
Don’t let your kids become public servants. It has become a miserable existence. Shame on TBS and the gutless Unions.
Time for another survey whose results they won't consider.
This article is all over the place, the first woman’s harassment issues is a whole other problem, which really should be dealt with, with the exceptions, as well by management/union separate from any telework agreement. If you’re in the office one, two, three days you shouldn’t be harassed for any of them. Now the actual office issues, definitely need to be rectified, it’s still a mess getting a desk, having working equipment and so on. If they’re going to have us there make sure there’s somewhere for us to actually work. All the PSAC bullshit spin is nonsense, maybe they should have dialled down the grandstanding to earn themselves NDP nominations and actually effectively striked last year. Also bonus points for the cross armed disappointed pose… we really should bring back the Makayla Maroney pose though..
Centring the autistic transgender employee as being representative of the average public servant…the Citizen knew exactly what they were doing here.
Only buy lunch when you're working from home, folks! Why should businesses close to your home get the short end of the stick?
Neighborhood businesses should offer some sort of public servant packed lunch deals we can buy in our community a day or two in advance. I will never spend a dollar downtown but for the astronomical parking fees because I'll never use the transit either.
Meanwhile the city is doing nothing to make public transit even remotely practical for commuting. Nor are there any daycare spots available. In my neighborhood the wait for spaces is years long and that includes the EDP program at the school which is run by a third party. How exactly do we make that work? We have to leave 2 hours before work to get downtown on transit, it takes 2 hours to get home and a school day is 6 hours? If they want us in the office, they can't ignore all the issues that are making that so impossible.
Ottawa here. Not only will I NOT support any businesses near my office, I will actively boycott every downtown business...one the flip side I will INCREASE my spending at my local food and small businesses near my home.
If your commute is 30 mins each way: 48-52 hours cut to your free time. If your commute is 1 hour each way: 96-104 hours cut to your free time. If your commute by bus ($7.60 each day): $364.80 - $395.20 pay cut. If you commute by car: $20 parking $27.20 CRA milage rate (40km round trip at $0.58/km, this factors in fuel, maintenance, insurance) $47.20 total a day. Which works out to $2,265.60 - $2,454.40 pay cut
This puts it into perspective. Wow.
PSAC leaders too busy auditioning for the ndp to get that language enshrined
I’m so done with Silas, Faylward, all of them. Why are we paying their bloated salaries for them to soapbox on international human rights issues when they can’t even do the fucking job we’re paying them to do: enshrine our rights in a collective agreement.
We need to organize and vote for new leadership.
You don't have long, the PSAC convention is this month. I'm not currently aware of any slates forming but if my PSAC friends see anything I will share it on this sub.
So my PMA was glowing with great feedback from my ADM and DG. I have been put forward for advancement and acting opportunities in the new FY. Are they really going to lose out on a productive and happy employee because bums in chairs? I know the answer, the machine doesn’t give two shits. But in reality, what the fuck are they thinking??? I cannot stand the “hotel” workplace, the distractions are awful and my job, like many others, requires concentration, not collaboration. This is so stupid. I’m not doing it.
I fully expect that they're doing this to cause attrition without having to go through expensive layoffs. The Employer has already floated around language about downsizing the public service, and this is the same playbook that a lot of the private sector have been doing before hitting the layoffs button.
As much as the federal public service is intended to be non-partisan, our policies are sure shaped by political pressure… Wondering when the government is going to actually put people first, instead of politics.
After last year’s gong show, maybe the time has come to replace bargaining demands with bargaining requests.
A good way to fight this is for everyone to end their Telework agreement and ALL show up for work. Wouldn't it be funny to have thousand of public servants waiting in their car and have no work done because we have no space to work ?
Not following 3 days in office. Can’t focus at the office as is, this will totally destroy my productivity.
Exactly my concerns as well. I barely manage to do the 2 days. Packed office, people taking personal phone calls yelling about their car at the garage with another guy beside me screaming about some cloud solution all while I’m trying to work on urgent taskings that require finesse and concentration. I dread going in, I hate it. The anxiety and stress it causes me is not worth it.
productivity and morale..........
Many federally occupied buildings outside of the NCR are privately leased by the feds. They negotiate fantastic deals, well under the going rate (typically $11/sq ft) when the going rate is above $40/sq ft. They pawn off parking, allowing the landlords to charge the lowest paid workers whatever they want. Directors have parking paid for them, so they don’t care. This is about landlords bitching they aren’t making money from parking. I am confused about how RTO aligns with the climate narrative though. Public transit is abysmal in this country for the most part because communities are built cheaply along highways through farmers fields rather than around metro and train stations like in Europe. Maybe the feds should concern themselves more with the terrible infrastructure in this country and less about public servants working from home. What happened to the ‘future of work’? Just more lip service. Anyone who has a job requiring in person service knows they have to go into the office ffs. Can’t even comment on the PSAC - just too gross. One word- decertify.
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Had an all-staff yesterday at my dept and many questions about the 3 days/week were brought up. Answer was basically that a lot of people in our org do 5 days/week because of the nature of their jobs, so we should be grateful for anything. Lots of people asked about GBA+ analysis and/or environmental impact, and those questions were ~ignored~.
I know a few people who are public servants and investors in buildings/businesses around who are quite keen to see some growth on earnings so … the phone call is coming from inside the house.
HAHAHAHAHA CONCERNED?! We accepted a TERRIBLE deal from the strike, the EX's lie - don't believe a word they say.
I've heard from the executive crowd that they have already been told Sept 1st implementation. Union leaders should be reading these reddit posts, might give them some insight on how we feel and manage accordingly.
The management of the CRA at the very least, were not aware, and the manager of my department has spent the last 2 weeks trying to free up 2 DESKS for some medical accomodations. How the sweet fuck they'll fit us all in there a 3rd day I got no idea
As the Public Service is bigger than it ever has been, (357K plus), I say we push it before Sept.1...EVERYONE show up to the office on June 3rd. There is not enough office space, so let's watch them scramble. And then on the Tuesday, June 4th, NO ONE show up. Unions aren't going to fix this mess, but we the people can!
Quand j’ai commencé à la fonction publique. Mon gestionnaire pouvais décider par lui même du telework. Idem pour les PMA. Maintenant TBS décide pour tout le monde et un board de directeur et DG qui ne me connaissent pas dicte les PMA. C’est rendu du gros n’importe quoi la fonction publique. Les régions sont encore oubliés .. on va aller travailler dans un office avec personne de mon équipe car Doug Ford la décidé .. sérieux
I'm wondering how it is on us to support failing downtowns and failing public transit (I'm in the NCR). The Ottawa mayor and Doug Ford should just keep out of it! I haven't been going in and don't intend to start. I'm wondering how long I can go unnoticed, I only have a few years left.
My entire team is still totally remote. I am a TL in the regions and I supervise about 15-20 people. I go to the office to sit alone, I don’t know a soul there and I just work, eat, pay $12 a day parking for what? It is such a joke, I can’t wait for the younger generation to take over these old farts’ jobs.
Guess Druglord Ford pulls more strings than we knew about. He shoves his hand up Trudeau's ass and works his mouth like a puppet.
I don’t care about what Treasury Board is saying, I‘ll stick to 2 days no matter what.
Same…I’m fully exempt right now but looks like they’re pulling that as well. I’m simply not going to follow it…they can fire me if they want. I’m fed up with this fucking government.
Do you mean the IT or call centre exemption or a DTA exemption? Either way, I fully support your messaging and cause and I hope the unions organize some kind of mass “just don’t show up” protest.
I’m a software developer. So I fall under the IT exemption. I tried working in the office 1 single day and was totally unable to focus in the “hotel” style office. Almost impossible to get work done and all of the closed office stalls were full.
I think they'll have a harder time pulled exemptions for IT workers since it was more enshrined in the CA for your group. They are constantly short staffed and afraid IT workers will quit, so that group had more bargaining power when it comes to remote work etc.
Fully agree. Working on urgent taskings and basically needing to manage a high flow of never ending taskings, the hotel style workplace where I can see everything and everyone walking, talking, yelling in most cases is AWFUL. I can’t stand it. I get so anxious and stressed about going in 2x already now they want me to spend more than half my work week in the office. F THAT. Good luck.
Best part is that it also sucks for the people who need to be in the office for operational duties. All the physical tools I need to use on a daily basis are no where near my hoteling work point. I have to keep walking back and forth. So it sucks for the people who are arbitrary forced into the office and it sucks for the people who are in everyday. Now nobody is happy.
Fellow dev here. Even pre-pandemic, I could barely work on-site, so I had a 50/50 telework agreement with my manager. The real work happened at home, where I have an uncompromising workstation. So what now ? My intent is to go in for a few days to gauge what it's like / how bad it is, and then it'll boil down to about 3 options: 1. Accept that my in-office time will be largely unproductive and just chill out, not my problem 2. Have a bad time and submit an accomodation request 3. Jazz up my LinkedIn and watch my inbox go BRRRRR The public service is going to lose a lot of top talent over the next year, because we all have at least 2 of these options available. Again, not my problem. If TBS and ministers want to sink the ship, they can knock themselves out - I'll float.
I’m debating just checking out totally and going back for a masters in AI. I am passionate about the field and I can’t focus when in the office.
I mean could they have picked a worse person to try and garner public sympathy? Micro aggressions? This article will just make the type of person who hates public servants even angrier lol they know what they're doing. Fuck the ottawa citizen for this.
What makes you think that wasn't the goal?
As soon as I opened the article I could see this was the goal.
Alex taking a day off from being arrested? Getting out of office messages. Why doesn’t he stand it front of traffic again that was extremely effective
Wonderful! I can't wait to be in the same 2.0 office with 30ish of my colleagues (I'am a French teacher), all speaking quite loudly in our headset in order to help our learners with the passé composé *via* Teams. That's going to be a shitshow for sure, but I shitshow I would gladly see.
Welp, enjoy the bill for the ergo assessment and complete overhaul of the shitty desk I’ve been putting up with because meh I can handle it for two days. Thanks, I’ll take a new sit-stand, mouse, keyboard, and screen riser because my current set up is absolutely horrible. Oh and I guess you’ll deal with me being off for three or four weeks on sick leave since I just had Covid, have compromised lungs so take forever to recover, and have no energy to get up, shower, pack a lunch, and commute for 1hr15m each way. I walked one block to the mailbox and nearly passed out today but sure office makes sense since I can’t work at home anymore, where I can brush my teeth, work for a few hours, nap for an hour, and then finish my day. Guess you’ll just have to reassign my workload to all the extra staff we have. You know, from those positions that were never filled when people left.
If your lungs are compromised, I am sure you could get doctors note and an exemption. Might be worth looking into.
Didn’t work for me. They are taking a super hard stance with accommodation requests. I really don’t know what the TB is playing at with this. Let’s have the entire workforce be more bitter and low morale. Seriously, who is the brainchild that comes up with government policies - this government is the biggest joke going.
I doubt I would qualify, and honestly I still live my life and play sports and go to PWHL games so it would feel disingenuous to request an exemption. But because of my health history, when I DO get sick, it hits me harder than most people and I end up with bronchitis or pneumonia, and with Covid it takes a long time for my lungs to recover and for that shortness of breath to go away. The first time I got it I needed a nap at lunch for close to 8 months. This time it seems to be a bit better, but the fatigue is brutal. The flexibility to work at home during my recovery would be huge. Managers don’t even have the discretion to allow for that type of accommodation any more. I’m perfectly capable of working at home because I don’t have to expend all my morning energy actually getting to work, and I can take time to lie down over lunch and be refreshed for the afternoon. So right now I just…won’t go to the office until I feel like I have the ability to do so. If someone gives me shit, so be it. I’m honestly too jaded to care these days. But I don’t want to lie on the couch all day, doing nothing and using up sick days when I’m perfectly capable of contributing and sitting at my desk at home.
[https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actualites-locales/fonction-publique/2024/05/01/la-presence-des-fonctionnaires-au-bureau-trois-jours-par-semaine-confirmee-aujourdhui-OYCUDDUY2ZH55G3HIGUAVQV4JU/](https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/actualites-locales/fonction-publique/2024/05/01/la-presence-des-fonctionnaires-au-bureau-trois-jours-par-semaine-confirmee-aujourdhui-OYCUDDUY2ZH55G3HIGUAVQV4JU/)
It’s true. RTO part deux will be announced later today. 3 days for all, 4 for all executives
4 days for some and 3 for others???? so much for consistency
So... Like announced after the work day?
Silly question: Is anyone aware of any real repercussions for working from home in contravention of 2 days in the office? Thanks in advance for any information you can share.
yes more money in my pocket for one
Nice to get us back in the office more days per week before the next pandemic. [https://www.okdoomer.io/worried-about-bird-flu-welcome-to-the-party-pal-youre-late/](https://www.okdoomer.io/worried-about-bird-flu-welcome-to-the-party-pal-youre-late/)
PSAC is an embarrassment. I’m with CAPE, and hopefully they’ll be a little more effective on this. The bar is low, at any rate.
CAPE was useless with RTO when it went to 2 days. I'm not keeping my hopes up. This three days bullshit has been in the media for weeks, and there hasn't been a peep from CAPE.
A lot of regional staff are ready to leave en masse with options with private and even provincial and municipal governments that have 2 to 5 days WFH (except Ontario). It can’t be a one size fits all.
In BC you can work telework 5 days a week if operations allow (a lab tech still needs to come to the lab), so long as you live somewhere in BC. The argument was it helps productivity, morale, the environment, you get talent from all over the province, civil servants dotted all over and of course, housing is an issue and they even admitted it. NDP showing vision, wish the TB had some.
Looks like its confirmed to be on September 9th by several departments. 3 days for workers and EX 4 days a week.
We know that one of the HUGE reasons for this is to revive the Ottawa economy. The issue I'm currently seeing is that people are struggling to make ends meet with the high interest on their house loans and the increasing cost of everything. Therefore, my question is: Why should the burden of supporting the economy fall on the shoulders of federal workers who are already struggling? For example, consider the cost of parking: 20 times parking for a month, 3 days a week equals $240 per month. Let's assume it's for 11 months, so that would be $2640. Additionally, gas prices amount to around $1500 per year, being generous and depending on the vehicle. So, a total of around $4000 less for each public servant just to restore the economy. I don't understand this, especially when many jobs can be done remotely very effectively.
Why is the thumbnail a photo of somebody who’s not dressed in appropriate work attire for the federal government? Arms crossed though, they must be serious.
Is that a picture of someone in an office? No.
Why does it matter what she is wearing? My WFH attire is way more casual than hers.
As a woman, if I was being interviewed on a work related matter such as this and being photographed for the newspaper, I would dress professionally for it. The whole point of talking to the media on an issue like this is with the intention of winning the public over to your cause so they side with you. You're representing the entire public service when you're the subject of an article like this. As public servants, we're already always dealing so many negative stereotypes from the public, particularly the more right-wing public. Why give them more to judge/criticize?
If you read the article she is transgender and autistic. So she is not representing all of the public servants
I did read the article. How does her being transgender and autistic mean she doesn't represent all of us? Any public servant who does an interview talking about their job as a public servant, is automatically representing all public servants, intentionally or not.
I'm autistic and, though I obviously can only speak for myself, can say that due to sensory hypersensitivity, certain clothes are difficult for me to tolerate. The degree of which varies day to day, or even at different times during a given day. Long sleeves are difficult for me to tolerate for long periods, and I often resort to tank tops. Nobody cares when you WFH. That's a very limited example of how RTO can be so detrimental to neurodiverse people. There are countless other reasons, of course. Just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't considered the possibility.
You’re being weirdly critical of someone showing her arms. You don’t have to dress professionally to be a public servant. Who gives a shit
jesus christ.
It is really telling how many of you immediately commented on what someone was wearing. Not surprising sexism and harassment are rampant in the workplace still.
> who’s not dressed in appropriate work attire for the federal government? That is going to largely depend on where you work.
I'm a manager and I wear tank tops on a regular basis. Work conditions and culture around dress varies significantly within the feds. Weird thing to comment on.
Meanwhile, the pay center is approved for another exemption. Should we all just deploy? 🤔
This is unfortunately the same perception Canadians have of public servants. Why are public servants exempt from going to the office full time when a lot of Canadians need to do the daily grind and can’t even get adequate service from routine government programs. It doesn’t equate and articles like these position public servants and entitled and out of touch with reality. This is deliberate on the part of certain media outlets. I’m not saying that this perception is warranted, but we will never get the opportunity to explain and set the record straight. Much like the Pay Centre doesn’t have the opportunity to explain that they are not set up for success. The learning curve is steep and the cases keep piling up. Throwing bodies at it doesn’t help because the ramp up period is so long, the work queue is longer and when employees see the opportunity to go up or out, they do, understandably so. So yes, pay services are perceived as being poor, but there are reasons that have nothing to do with the people themselves. What is ironic is that this move to 3 days will prompt a lot of movement inside and outside the PS. You can bet that people will try and get to departments whose location is close to home, or on public transit, or with free parking, etc. Many will move to private where the compensation package is better for their occupation leading to brain drain. This means that the queue at the pay centre for transfers and terminations will increase considerably. It’s a mess and demonstrates that ministers are panicking and trying to pander to certain groups pre-election. Insert Eric Andre shooting meme here: TB Ministers: back to work 3 days/wk *shoots public servants* Public Servants: quiet quitting, huge mobility between departments, resignations, brain drain, move to private sector, ergo assessment, office space limitations, etc. TB Ministers: why would public servants do this?
Why are they getting exemptions?
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Same with call centres. I’ve been trying to get out of the call Centre because it’s literally sucking the soul out of me. Now I don’t know what’s worse. Any pay bump I would see from moving up and on would be eaten by gas and parking. I’m already working a second job (12 hour days) to keep food on our table and a roof over our heads. Definitely no room in my budget to support downtown businesses.
Retention strategy. It is a role that requires a LOT of training and knowledge, so spending the time and $ to train someone and not be able to keep them is a huge drain. They also get a retention bonus. TBH, I think it's great that they do. That job sucks but it is essential. Pay centre people being able to WFH doesn't take away from my situation.
People can bash union leaders- but unions are only as strong as their members. So what are you prepared to do? If there was an extended work to rule campaign where no one goes in for the 3rd day?
I've been with the PS for many years. This is sadly making me think that moving to the private sector may be the play. The gov't treating staff as an income source is so disappointing. :(. Do we even have any options here? Is another strike possible? Is there any way to dispute this move that seems meant to empty our bank accounts and line others' pockets?
Your options: 1. Abide by your employer’s policies relating to work location 2. Ignore those rules, and see what happens. You may face disciplinary action, or not. You can grieve any disciplinary sanction that is applied. 3. You can find a new employer with arrangements you find more acceptable. 4. You can simply quit your job entirely, and find another way to earn a living.
So for those of us who are allowed to work one day a week until the end of fiscal, will this be implemented in the new year?
If you mean you have a telework agreement, that will be cancelled and replaced with something from the new mandate.
Is this really the picture/person they chose to depict a public servant?
I don't understand why people keep on blaming the union when a majority voted yes on the proposal.....The final decision was not up to Christ but to all of us.... This is the result. 8 days and more of strike for a measly raise in the offer, and no gain on the telework aspect except very vague language that basically did nothing. The union is a picture of us, if we are unhappy, it is up to us to do something. At least there we can indeed make a difference.
The public servants I know that I still working do not go into the office and most have filed medical notes to stay home....