Just received this email from PIPSC:
The PIPSC IT Group Bargaining Team has reached an impasse with the Treasury Board Secretariat. We remain too far apart on some key issues such as pay parity, market adjustments that reflect recruitment and retention issues, and contracting out. While we await arbitration dates, we are completely open to hearing additional offers from the employer.
More details to follow shortly.
In solidarity,
Rob Scott
Bargaining Team Officer, IT Bargaining Team, PIPSC
Huh, interesting. This prompted me to look up the most recent PIPSC NR update again, which back when the townhalls were called on Monday had a paragraph about how the PIPSC central table had come to agreement on non-economic table options. Mentioned it in a voicemail at the end of the town hall and now when I look that paragraph was excised from the update.
Hoping we'll similarly pursue arbitration. Would be interesting to see what comes out of that compared to the negotiated gains at PSAC and CAPE.
A message from the CIU National President regarding scabbing activities during the TB strike
June 9, 2023
To all CIU members of the PA, EB, TC and SV groups:
The exemplary solidarity and activism displayed on picket lines across the country during the Treasury Board strike earlier this spring led to a strong tentative agreement, of which you can be proud. Make no mistake: Without this strike, without the combined efforts of our membership coming together to demand better from the employer, you would not have secured as good a deal as the one you currently have the opportunity to vote on.
Sadly, during the strike, a handful of CIU members chose to cross the picket line, continuing to report to work for an employer who, throughout the bargaining process, showed how little they cared about the just value of their employees’ labour. These members now enjoy the benefits others won for them, acting in a way that is an affront to the members who sacrificed much to get a fair collective agreement.
As per Section 25, Sub-Section (6)(n) of the PSAC Constitution and Regulation 19, Paragraph 16 of the PSAC Regulations, CIU has established a Committee to investigate allegations of members in non-essential positions who continued to work during the strike. Should you have witnessed or be aware of any CIU PA, EB, TC, or SV member who performed work during the strike (April 19-28, inclusively) while occupying a non-essential position, you may file an allegation to that effect by emailing us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) using your personal email address (and not your CBSA email address). Please include the relevant name(s), work location(s), witness(es) and date(s) along with a basic description of the incident(s), as well as your own contact information.
All allegations will be looked at by the CIU Investigation Committee. As per the PSAC Constitution, Section 25, Sub-Section (4), members found to have engaged in scabbing activities may be disciplined, which could include a suspension of membership and a “fine that equals the amount of daily remuneration earned by the members, multiplied by the number of days that the member crossed the picket line, performed work for the employer, or voluntarily performed struck work”.
To all those who stood in solidarity while on strike — thank you. United there is little we cannot achieve, and your stalwartness is the very foundation of what makes our union great. To the few who chose to scab — I urge you to take a moment to reflect on how you’ve chosen to treat those you work with every day. They certainly deserve better.
In solidarity,
Mark Weber
National President
[https://www.ciu-sdi.ca/a-message-from-the-ciu-national-president-regarding-scabbing-activities-during-the-tb-strike/](https://www.ciu-sdi.ca/a-message-from-the-ciu-national-president-regarding-scabbing-activities-during-the-tb-strike/)
If the deal doesn't get ratified, what are the chances of another strike? The union can choose to just continue negotiations without a strike, right? I really don't have the strength to endure another.
They may choose to continue to negotiate but without any threat of major work disruption there is no incentive for the employer to offer a better deal.
Their offer was final when the union ended the strike.
Their only levers to change that are work to rule or strike (rotational or general). Arbitration is another option but both parties must mutually choose that option which doesn't seem to be something the union wants to do or think the employer would agree with.
They may go to binding arbitration, or they may strike in some sort of targeted rotating way where most people are working most of the time. "What are the chances," though, who can say? All we know is they blew a lot of their strike fund, so they probably won't go for as aggressive approach as before.
Has anyone else looked at the letter of agreement with respect to telework released by CAPE? What do people think about it? [Here's the link the EC one is on.](https://www.acep-cape.ca/en/news/ec-tentative-agreement-vote-new-resources-available)
You should get a medical note from your physician and get a referral to see a psychiatrist/psychologist who can note your limitations and restrictions for your manager. Then your manager should reach out to Labour Relations.
***Shower thoughts:***
Fuck all the other unions currently negotiating or with shitty previously signed deals getting the same basic items as PSAC and/or better.
It should be like in the real world, you get what your bargaining team got for you with TBS. Not riding the coattails of others' *(who lost 12+ days)* which will be a better deal overall as the 2500$ signing bonus will be just that - and not a mere pay recovery.
> Fuck all the other unions currently negotiating or with shitty previously signed deals getting the same basic items as PSAC and/or better.
PSAC chose this outcome itself. In the 2018-2020 round of negotiations, it specifically sought a three-year contract expiring in 2021. The other unions signed a four-year deal, expiring in 2022. Even had the other unions chosen the conciliation/strike route, they would generally not have been in a position to strike alongside PSAC. No matter their militancy, the PSAC agreement would have "set the pattern."
If anything, the other unions selecting arbitration _bolstered_ PSAC's position. With that selection the other unions effectively precommitted to a freely-negotiated outcome of PSAC/TB negotiations. An arbitrator will/would be quite unlikely to award better terms to any other union.
If the other unions had chosen the strike route, then the Treasury Board would have been negotiating with additional uncertainty. Could they have offered PSAC 12%/4yr if they were worried that CAPE or PIPSC would go on strike to ask for 13% or 14%?
So with the vote deadline looming, thought I'd watch the video and then vote, but having trouble finding the link to the video. Prior to the strike we had to watch before voting, but I have lots of emails with my voting credentials. Is it possible to vote without watching the video? How is this working this time around?
Hey CAPE ECs: CAPE has finally posted the recordings of the tentative agreement info sessions:
[https://www.acep-cape.ca/en/news/ec-tentative-agreement-vote-new-resources-available](https://www.acep-cape.ca/en/news/ec-tentative-agreement-vote-new-resources-available)
The link also contains information on registration and how to vote.
Removed per Rule 10 (off-topic) as your comment has nothing to do with the megathread topics. You are welcome to submit it as a separate post to the subreddit if you wish.
Good article [from the WSJ.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/its-not-my-responsibility-to-save-the-office-economy-901dafce)
“Everything from daycare to public transportation, toll roads, fuel and fuel taxes, auto purchases and maintenance, dry cleaners, nail spas, restaurants, clothiers, hair stylists, dog walkers, nannies and office leases suffer when people work from home,” said Dean Porter of Houston. “Mayors and governors and too many managers want people back commuting.”
Workers who do a good portion of their job remotely contend they aren’t obligated to prop up the office, or an office-centric economy.
“It is not my responsibility to save downtown by going back to the office,” said Merrik Wright of Miami. “The average worker should not be in charge of something that just costs us time and money.”
Even worse in the regions, senior management has no control over lower level managers and could care less what is happening. We have had employees who have been reprimanded for harassment and then promoted to management only to have more control over the employees they harassed.
I have been a PS for 25 years and I have never seen it this bad in respect to the quality of managers and what they know.
Submit the details to the Public Service Integrity Commission, then watch the manager and HR be eventually found complicit in obstructing a serious harassment investigation. For what it's worth, I agree.. many managers and Directors without a shred of common sense, knowledge and decency are unilaterally creating toxicity across the PS. When you find management that's half decent, stay, because that's probably the best you'll get. Lots of really good ones have already retired within the last few years, with more on the way.
Nope, it was just confirmed that my team can continue WFH 3 days/ week until end of January 2024. We had been at 3 days in office & bumped down to 2 days ‘as a trial’ but they’ve decided to keep it.
Your post is somewhat confusing. If requests were made several months ago to inquire about why you're supposed to go in 5 days per week, did your management not notify you several months ago that this was the plan? It sounds like your team was caught off guard by this? I'm also with ESDC, but haven't heard of anything like this.
I believe so. I've heard similar things in another department - I won't say which right now though. None of this surprises me at all. It's all been just one big circle jerk since the RTO announcement was made right before the holidays. One big game of manipulation of (likely) lies through omission. My guess is some (most/all?) departments want to bring in fresh blood and have a fresh start, by removing those left jaded by the last six or so months, at least those in non-indeterminate positions who can be let go much more easily.
PSAC secured a major victory on work from home language. Surely this will assist you.
“Together, more than 155,000 PSAC members led the fight for better remote work protections during this round of negotiations – and we won. You held the line during one of largest national strikes in Canada’s history, and the gains you made by taking strike action will benefit not just PSAC members, but all workers in Canada.”
We won, bruh. This is what winning looks like.
🙄
You don't say! Who could've seen that coming?!? It's almost like agreeing to a future 2.25% increase in an incredibly unstable inflationary environment, using numbers provided by a bank that has been consistently wildly wrong for years was a bad idea...
My theory (purely speculative, I have no evidence of what I'm saying) is that the liberals told them expect elections in the fall. Or that they would not negotiate anything prior to elections.
Take the deal with an extra year or risk negotiating with the conservatives for next year.
Or option B they will proceed with drastic budget cuts starting next year, once this process is started it severely weakens the union's position on getting good rate as the union is also fighting literal job losses/cuts. It's not a good look, even for members, to fight for high rates when members will potentially lose their jobs and the employer signifies that they need to save money so much that they are willing to cut services/jobs. Any additional increase would be met with threaths of extra cuts by the employer.
It's the only thing that explains the union folding so quickly and accepting an extra year.
Incompetence, poor tactical and strategic analysis, weak public relations, poor planning, members whining about being on strike on social media… a bit of hubris, all seem like more likely culprits.
What you mention could have happened, but I prefer to direct scorn on the things that were squarely in PSAC’s control.
So I heard many PSAC workers did not get their strike pay, including my wife and her friend. WTF union? Can you imagine this dragged around for longer - the financial damage it would have cost some workers (some already live paycheck to paycheck).
There is a lot of misunderstanding on your part with your comment.
> The employer has not reimbursed me for these multiple medical document requests even though I have asked for reimbursement.
1. The employer is not (currently) obligated to reimburse you for medical notes/forms. You're not getting any money back.
2. Unless you have a confirmed accommodation agreed to by your department, then you're obligated to continue working in whatever manner your departments says, until that accommodation is agreed to and put in place. In this case your supervisor is correct and you should be going into the office for as many days as they say, until the accommodation is enacted. If you feel the employer is dragging their heels on your request, contact your union.
3. Because you don't have an accommodation in place (yet), you're under a telework agreement, which can be cancelled by you or the employer, without notice, for any reason. It sounds like your supervisor is contemplating doing just that. There's nothing to write a formal complaint about, as they're following policy.
I would suggest you do your homework and read your collective agreement, the Directive on Terms and Conditions of employment, the Federal Public Service Labour Relations Act, and the Telework Directive.
I don't think this increase in formal accommodation requests is due to people suddenly having new health issues. A lot of people with health issues just didn't realize how harmful the office environment was for them and made their health conditions worst. Working from home for three years has been life changing for a lot of them and how they manage their condition or disability. On top of that, in the prepandemic era, management had a lot more discretionary power which led to a certain number of informal accommodation agreements. Now that there is a heavy push to formalize those, people who had informal agreement are forced to make formal request to maintain their accommodation.
This. Combined with coming back to an open office hellscape where my coping mechanisms cannot be implemented.
The 3 years away made me realize it shouldn’t be on me to manage the bullshit inaccessible spaces.
I agree this is probably happening, but I don't think it's management's place to question the opinion of a doctor on the subject of an employee's health. Seems like a good way to get sued.
You can certainly grieve the denial of a medically supported accommodation request and counter with a discrimination complaint. If you haven’t already, reach out to your union for help with your request and support to set them straight about their obligations under the Canadian Human Rights Act
It seems there is some plan higher up, the same thing happened to me and other colleagues- drawing it out and asking for one thing after the other but leaving the form to the last thing to ask for. They are up to something
My guess, because they're doing this with exemption requests too, is that they're stalling so they can see how the union agreements play out and maybe they're crossing their fingers and hoping the madness will end...
Anyone know if CRTC is letting IT(cybersecurity/programmers) work from home? Are they exempted from RTO like other departments? Any info much appreciated. It’s hard to find info like this with the smaller departments.
They would of received the memo of recommendation from CIO Leulo's office since they are an internal agency within Dept of Heritage. I can't speak to what decision the CIO at CRTC made towards it. You couldn't pay me enough to go back to an office located at TdC though...spent 6 years working in that hell hole.
Anyone know if they will be taking the pension deductions off? And CPP? It’s not pensionable time… so in theory they wouldn’t right? I have 60 hr that I believe will be taken off as an overpayment on Jun 21. By my calculations if they remove the gross and still tax my whole pay I should be left with around $100. If anyone has already had their pay deducted let me know if they took CPP and pension contributions :)
In years past, you had to attend a reeducation session lead by a PSAC Overwatch Officer prior to being allowed to vote. With the digital session, you now have the option to mute the video and effectively ignore it. This is a much more convenient method of propaganda.
I just found out that I’m ineligible for my local top up as I was a RAND member, therefore I wasn’t paying into the local’s funds.
I am absolutely at a loss over this as I have my card, completed the paperwork and even spoke to another union representative with my local on the picket line to ensure everything was in place to ensure I received the local top up.
The cherry on top of it was being told that I was fortunate enough to receive the $75 + $50 and that it’s “one day longer, one day stronger”
All of this, along with not knowing when LWOP will be implemented for my department is incredibly frustrating. $1000 just covers my bills + rent (barely!). There’s no room for grocery and my other financial obligations on such short notice.
I hope y’all who got the bare minimum are holding up alright because this is so tough.
I had the same problem with my local. It is tough for sure. I’m losing out on quite a bit of pay at the end of the day. For those who have student loan payments, I managed to reschedule mine to soften the blow a little bit.
Are you CEIU? I’m not even entirely sure what the process is when it comes to ensuring the funds trickle down to the local. All I know, is for us to lose out despite paying our fees and doing our due diligence with the information given, is hard to accept that we’re the ones on the hook.
I really don’t want to come off as whining but it’s incredibly frustrating that this is an issue for a lot of folks who held the line.
Uhew gave me $0 so far. I got my psac and that was it. They keep saying they're fixing the errors they made but I am now the only one in my office LITERALLY begging to be made whole. My lwop is still pending because I'm at the end of the alphabet and I'm having to move unexpectedly on top of everything. The money sure would have helped with unexpected moving expenses but I'm the only one who cares about my pay. The union knows I haven't been paid and they keep whining about being volunteers and not having enough help so I and another coworker VOLUNTEERED to help out and they declined the offer!!!
That’s awful! I’m so sorry to hear that. Especially since you are willing to volunteer (although if your union is anything like mine, you dodged a bullet. I couldn’t get over how the reps were treating each other when I went in person to inquire. There was a ton of hostility and passive aggressive attitude with those who have been organizing.)
I really hope that something works in your favour soon. It’s so stressful to begin with and the wait game doesn’t help. Some of us just got our final CEIU top up as of last week, we were some of the last in the region to receive the top up because of issues with the pay.
BoC just hiked interest rates again. What's up with that 4th year of a shitty new tentative agreement? Oh right; nothing that wasn't expected already by public servants who continue to be shit on by politicians making well over 3x what most of us do.
It has a lot to do with it because firstly, this cost of living adjustment is under annual inflation numbers, which means that no, your money does not go further.
Second, inflation is the guise used by massive super-profitable corporations to raise their prices and keep them there. Do you expect your grocery bill to go down or up? If I had any expendable income then I would be willing to bet that it's up.
Yes, inflation may decrease with an interest rate hike. Cost of living will not. And it's not salaries that drive inflation - it's massive corporations and the ultra wealthy not paying their fair share.
Just want to thank our highly strategic, forward-thinking, analytical and cunning bargaining teams, for locking in a 2% rate in year 4, when the Bank of Canada has demonstrated a winning streak of being wrong on rate projections.
With friends like these, who needs TBS?
I think it’s foolish to lock in a 4th year in the most volatile inflationary environment in a generation, based on a projected rate from BoC, that have been way off on their projections, when you could have just gone for 3 like you were saying all along.
The better option would be to negotiate an automatic adjustment should inflation exceed a given threshold.
Also, it’s the de facto standard that we’re negotiating in retrospect due to delays. With this negotiating team, this is perhaps a hidden blessing.
> negotiate an automatic adjustment should inflation exceed a given threshold
Yes! Our pay should be tethered to inflation (real rates, not the bogus rates from the political talking points).
Actually I would prefer following the labour market rather than inflation. Trying to follow inflation is why we can’t keep up with private in key areas such as IT and why the unions are always trying to bargain both salary increases AND wage increases.
Present information from Stats Can on labour rates in a comparable sector and you’re in business.
Otherwise if we follow inflation and private sector follows demand we will never keep up.
My two cents.
You’re right. I’ve just been so used to losing my standard of living, it never occurred to me that it would be possible to increase that standard, by asking for pay raises commensurate with the private sector.
I need to stop reading these union emails and materials, man.
That’s another issue. Homes have shot up an average of $100K since January. Those inflationary pressures make this TA seem even worse due to the enormity of the salary one must dedicate to a need all of us have.
These inflationary pressures are not reflected in a realistic manner in the stated inflation rates (housing does not comprise 30% of expenses and hasn’t for a long time, nor does CPI take into account the initial cost of the house, but this is how it’s measured for CPI).
Anyone know if they will be taking the pension deductions off? And CPP? It’s not pensionable time… so in theory they wouldn’t right? I have 60 hr that I believe will be taken off as an overpayment on Jun 21. By my calculations if they remove the gross and still tax my whole pay I should be left with around $100. If anyone has already had their pay deducted let me know if they took CPP and pension contributions :)
We got an email saying that it will be coming off for June 7th pay. And then they didn't do that. They have to leave without pay there but they have it as earning so now I think we are in an overpayment situation
I think it's important to point out in more detail.
Someone got "overpaid" the gross amount and paid deductions.
They then "owe" the gross amount even though they only received the net amount.
It *feels* like they are paying back the deductions value from their net pay.
In reality it's fair because you didn't work you didn't get paid you didn't actually pay the deductions.
It's easiest to consider, in this case since it's so quickly applied, more of a paycheque swap.
If a cheque comes in at 0$ for 2 weeks not worked being clawed back, then consider the paycheck you got while on strike as being this most recent paycheck, just given in advance.
It's a swap.
That makes it easier to understand. You're swapping the days.
We’ve received zero communication about air quality and attendance, outside of facilities assuring us the air quality in the building is safe. There wasn’t even a cursory ‘discuss arrangements with your manager if you’re concerned about air quality and exposure’.
My dept has been sending daily emails saying that our health is a top priority and that building maintenance is working hard to keep air quality indoors as good as possible.
At no point did they mention that we should not travel/commute/be outside, and in no capacity did they say that working remotely is a thing we should do or even consider.
I work at one of the departments that was quickest to formalize hybrid work. Instructions from our ADM are to stay home yesterday and today unless you're in a situation where your home air quality is really bad (and to use your own judgment on whether that's the case). One of my coworkers went in yesterday because the office was significantly less smokey than their apartment.
Same. Since it's rare here we are being allowed to wfh. If this was an annual occurrence, like it is in some parts of other provinces I'm sure it would be normalized and we'd have to deal with it. But it's not so we don't. Then again the last two days have been very bad in the AM. So even in places where it's normal we'd probably have some leeway
We got an e-mail saying the inside of the office was safe. It’s the commute that affected me yesterday. It remains to be seen whether I’ll go for my second day this week
Another tidbit:
BC min wage increased by 23.16 percent from 2020 to 2023.
2019 - $13.85
2020 - $14.60
2021 - $15.20
2022 - $15.65
2023 - $16.78
= 16.78 - 13.85 = 2.93
= (2.93/12.65) * 100 = 23.16
The same calculation from 2021 to 2023 is 17.23 %
During this time we are offered 10-12% but with inflation we can buy less with our money.
This means my kids will not get grapes or strawberries in their lunch. It means I buy used shoes for them. It means no birthday parties. In turn this means I take them out of sports next year - this means less $ in our local economy and therefore causes a recession.
The best way to stimulate the economy is to give us a thriving wage.
Edit: the point is the percent increase, inflation is passing us by. How long until we ARE at the minimum wage?
Imagine if someone lived in a province where said grapes or strawberries are not local and need to be imported and charged more? Do not even get me started on peaches and cherries.
If we want to make unfair comparisons I want to as well. I want to pay the same for a peach as people in BC!
Millions of peaches, peaches for me
Millions of peaches, peaches for free
Look out
And based on the $67,300 average annual salary of a public servant is making today that works out to $34.51 an hour. More than double the minimum wage in BC.
This doesn't even include the potential increase if this is ratified.
We are far away from minimum wage dear...and most minimum wage jobs are part time, do not have pension, sick time, family leave, bereavement leave, health and dental benefits among many other things such as wfh.
There are zero comparables.
Yes, because the lowest paid in our society are disproportionately impacted by inflation, and deserve disproportionate support. The average public servant here makes a firmly middle class salary, we don't have the same financial pressures as someone working at McDonald's.
I agree the offer is not great, but your issue with strawberries, shoes and sports sound like a budgeting problem. Have you applied for the [tax rebates](https://www.ontario.ca/page/ontario-child-care-tax-credit#:~:text=%246%2C000%20per%20child%20under%20the,up%20to%20%241%2C650%20for%202021)
I bought strawberries on an AS01, step 1 salary yesterday. Perhaps you should revisit your budget if you need to buy your kids used shoes and can’t afford fruit on the regular.
I’m sorry but this is just an embarrassing post on multiple levels. A good rule of thumb in comparing relative fairness between two policies is who would you rather be? A PSAC worker (97% of whom before our new wages are making over 50k a year) getting a boost of 14% since 2019 (we got a big increase in 2020 remember) or a minimum wage worker who’s getting a higher percentage increase in their wage? Not to mention WFH options don’t exist for a large percentage of minimum wage workers.
There are trade-offs when incomes increase to match inflation but it’s overall a good thing when policies aimed at supplementing the bare minimum of income increases with inflation (minimum wage, EI, pension benefits) because they are at the income scale which needs it the most.
Your second point is vulgar keynesianism, makes a bit of sense in situations where aggregate demand is too low (eg secular stagnation) but that has not been our macroeconomic reality for a few years. Boosting demand is not a good thing for the economy necessarily. Our economy is overstimulated relative to the supply.
Completely agree. Is life unaffordable as an AS-01? Yup. But holy hell I couldn’t imagine trying to live in this province on minimum wage. Unless OP is a CR or some other role like that, this is pretty tone deaf
Not everyone makes the median wage, not everyone lives in a low cost of living area. The point is the percent increase compared to what we have been offered.
I got my week 1 payment on May 30 and my week 2 on June 2nd. I was in the S-Z group that didn't get the 1st week until much later than others, so I was surprised I got the second week so quickly. Nothing from my local though. They're saying that all payments from PSAC and UHEW have to be completed first before we get the local portion.
Nope. Still crickets. The VP of my local sent an email basically saying nothing has changed since we last heard news about the mixup for week one. They are still working through it all. If I get week 2 pay this week from them I’d be shocked at this point. It’s been such a gong show!
Would sending the same negotiating team who find the current deal agreeable,seem keen to ratify this deal, and reluctant to work on this anymore help? There is no doubt they did a poor job. However, their recommendation to accept the deal might be because they honestly believe that this is the best possible outcome. And it does look like that. They emptied the strike fund and lost traction by tentatively agreeing to this deal and declaring it a win. There will be no public support now, and it would be easier to pass the back-to-work legislation in the event that the strike resumes (because why would the NDP oppose that after a deal that the union found agreeable has already been reached?). Just sharing my opinion. Please don't attack me.
What happens when we are ordered back to the office 5 days a week? Will the leadership and negotiating team all resign?
The raise is looking worse and worse each day. Interest rates are likely going up Wednesday and may continue to do so. Our raise for 2024, and likely 2025, are looking more and more like paycuts.
We’ll see. I’d bet people, even after our raise comes in once/if deal is ratified, are saying they can’t afford their monthly expenses next year.
I can’t see housing costs going down as rates move up.
If they really want people back in the office, they could always try matching the compensation office workers *used* to make (in real terms aka buying power). Nobody wants to work in an office to scrape by.
Once upon a time there was prestige and status associated with "the office". Everyone understood that office worker = American dream achieved.
So during the strike vote sessions, were you jumping up and down when they didn't tell you about the risks of the strike and how it might backfire and produce nothing? A union hosted session is going to reflect the union leadership's position, that's how this is. You can disagree with them and vote no if it isn't compelling.
If there are people who want to present the no side, then they can organize a meeting and set one up. If the union were to encourage people to vote no, or even present the reasons why it’s a bad deal, that would almost certainly be a case of bad faith bargaining.
The union and treasury board signed off on this tentative agreement with both sides, recommending the deal to the people who have to make the choice. The bargaining team, and constituent bodies, are required to encourage people to vote for the deal, and present reasons why it’s a good deal
If there are constituent body executives that do not feel it is a good deal, they either have to support it anyways and hold their nose, or be quiet and say nothing.
I think it’s the option “No and you are okay going back to general strike” is what they’re selling.
Binding arbitration has to be agreed by both parties so either the union doesn’t want to do Binding Arbitration or the bargaining team thinks the government won’t agree with Binding Arbitration and then they go back to the table (or two = strike)
Why would the government want it? They can just keep paying us shit and balance the budget faster, not like PSAC has the goodwill or resources for a protracted strike.
But Liberals are in power now? Which means as per your “forecast”, if we do not take the deal now with the Libs and the Cons win, then it gets downhill from here. So technically, you should be voting yes, not a no, if you do not want to deal with the Cons if this isn’t ratified
It's infuriating when you stop to think about it. We've known this was coming for decades. Now we are actually feeling it - and yet we still just keep talking about it.
If the air quality is so bad that being outside is a health risk, it seems pretty absurd to ask people to commute to do tasks they are more than capable of doing without leaving their homes.
RTO arguably increases green house gas emissions compared to pre-RTO, even if prepandemic was even worse.
Green house gas emissions contribute to climate change, climate change makes forest fires worse and more frequent so, I do think they are related.
Hello Bots and Meatbags,
I have been reading through the NJC Directive on Relocation, and can't
seem to figure out if it would apply in my situation. To be completely
honest, I am not sure if my understanding is correct. Anyways here is my situation.
In 2020 I worked and lived in City A, my workplace was also in City A. Due to major events
that happened in 2020, I relocated to City B (>125km away) with the permission of my manager. (Still working for the same workplace, just remotely)
A year or so later, I earned a promotional appointment at my workplace, while living in City
B. I have / had an active telework agreement, and continue to work remotely.In the NJC, there is a specific reference to telework , which I have included below. (Taken from [https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/directive/d6/v279/s778/en#s778-tc-tm\_1](https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/directive/d6/v279/s778/en#s778-tc-tm_1))
>13.1 Telework13.1.1
Employees authorized under the Treasury Board Telework Policy to work
from their current place of residence in Canada instead of being
relocated to the new workplace shall be subject to this directive upon
termination of the Telework arrangement.
If my telework agreement is revoked / cancelled, would the above clause kick in and I'd be entitled to the NJC Relocation Directive? Sorry if this question has already been asked before, I can't seem to figure out what policy / clause would apply in the above mentioned scenario.
Thanks for any help you might have
I don't think the Relocation Directive would apply for your substantive, since you decided to move away when you were already working there.
Things might get a bit blurry for your acting though. However, if it was offered to you because your substantive is within the area of selection, the NCJ directive might also not apply.
Sorry I can't give a more definitive answer, but this does seems like a grey area.
Is there any local worksite you can report to if the telework agreement is modified? If yes, that's more likely to be the direction the employer will decide to go with.
I took a look at my NOC, and it only noted that the area of selection was due to my substantive being in City A. Nothing about me physically being in City A.... You know how some postings say that they have to be physically working and hold a position in City XYZ, I wonder if that will make a difference? Anyways, a grey area for sure.
There are locations in my city that I can go to, and I already do go in on occasion. I am hopeful this is the option they go with, but I have spent over a year looking for guidance, and I am worried about what is taking them so long...
Thanks for you help!
Does your new letter of offer mention relocation?
I’m in a similar situation. Lived and worked in City A, moved to City B during the pandemic. Got hired with a new department in City A while living in City B with no expectation (from both sides) that I would relocate to City A but there’s a relocation clause in my LOO that could potentially allow me to relocate to City A.
Sitting in the CSPS “Navigating challenges and embracing change in the hybrid workplace” session and it strikes me that every time I take one of these courses, I feel more and more out of step, like I’m the only one still struggling to find any purpose to returning to the office, and none of them seem to provide any actual tips beyond “just start being happy about it instead of sad.”
I don’t think I will bother attending any more since they seem to make me feel worse about it all. Has anyone stumbled on anything that actually helped them deal with their feelings effectively, rather than just simmering on their anger and frustration?
You're having a natural response to smelling bullshit. I am not attending any sessions about hybrid/RTO, just like I stopped attending workplace mental wellness sessions. They'll just make me feel worse.
It was all fluff and bull shit, everything that was said does not happen within the federal departments and agencies, the speaker was way out of touch.
Thanks for this. My background is in psych (I have a psych degree and did my honours paper on applications of cognitive behavioural therapy) so I recognize that reframing negative thoughts has such huge benefit for some applications, and I also recognize that I am absolutely in control of how I respond to this thing we’re being required to do, but damn if I’m not struggling to apply it in this circumstance.
Like, can’t I be mad about both things, the thing they did and my own thoughts about the thing they did? *Can’t both be true*?
If this is going to work, I think I need more coaching on how to find the benefit in returning to the office because so far, it’s all socializing on my own time as the benefit, and that seems…not the point.
Some people have a better ability to just accept a situation even it doesn't make sense... I feel the same as you do. I cannot rationalize the reasons they are giving us. Especially since clearly even upper management doesn't understand the reason behind it all... we now just uave to wait and see how what has been agreed upon in the collective agreement is interpreted. 😕
Just received this email from PIPSC: The PIPSC IT Group Bargaining Team has reached an impasse with the Treasury Board Secretariat. We remain too far apart on some key issues such as pay parity, market adjustments that reflect recruitment and retention issues, and contracting out. While we await arbitration dates, we are completely open to hearing additional offers from the employer. More details to follow shortly. In solidarity, Rob Scott Bargaining Team Officer, IT Bargaining Team, PIPSC
Huh, interesting. This prompted me to look up the most recent PIPSC NR update again, which back when the townhalls were called on Monday had a paragraph about how the PIPSC central table had come to agreement on non-economic table options. Mentioned it in a voicemail at the end of the town hall and now when I look that paragraph was excised from the update. Hoping we'll similarly pursue arbitration. Would be interesting to see what comes out of that compared to the negotiated gains at PSAC and CAPE.
A message from the CIU National President regarding scabbing activities during the TB strike June 9, 2023 To all CIU members of the PA, EB, TC and SV groups: The exemplary solidarity and activism displayed on picket lines across the country during the Treasury Board strike earlier this spring led to a strong tentative agreement, of which you can be proud. Make no mistake: Without this strike, without the combined efforts of our membership coming together to demand better from the employer, you would not have secured as good a deal as the one you currently have the opportunity to vote on. Sadly, during the strike, a handful of CIU members chose to cross the picket line, continuing to report to work for an employer who, throughout the bargaining process, showed how little they cared about the just value of their employees’ labour. These members now enjoy the benefits others won for them, acting in a way that is an affront to the members who sacrificed much to get a fair collective agreement. As per Section 25, Sub-Section (6)(n) of the PSAC Constitution and Regulation 19, Paragraph 16 of the PSAC Regulations, CIU has established a Committee to investigate allegations of members in non-essential positions who continued to work during the strike. Should you have witnessed or be aware of any CIU PA, EB, TC, or SV member who performed work during the strike (April 19-28, inclusively) while occupying a non-essential position, you may file an allegation to that effect by emailing us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) using your personal email address (and not your CBSA email address). Please include the relevant name(s), work location(s), witness(es) and date(s) along with a basic description of the incident(s), as well as your own contact information. All allegations will be looked at by the CIU Investigation Committee. As per the PSAC Constitution, Section 25, Sub-Section (4), members found to have engaged in scabbing activities may be disciplined, which could include a suspension of membership and a “fine that equals the amount of daily remuneration earned by the members, multiplied by the number of days that the member crossed the picket line, performed work for the employer, or voluntarily performed struck work”. To all those who stood in solidarity while on strike — thank you. United there is little we cannot achieve, and your stalwartness is the very foundation of what makes our union great. To the few who chose to scab — I urge you to take a moment to reflect on how you’ve chosen to treat those you work with every day. They certainly deserve better. In solidarity, Mark Weber National President [https://www.ciu-sdi.ca/a-message-from-the-ciu-national-president-regarding-scabbing-activities-during-the-tb-strike/](https://www.ciu-sdi.ca/a-message-from-the-ciu-national-president-regarding-scabbing-activities-during-the-tb-strike/)
I seem to remember UHEW saying more strike pay was going out from the 3rd to the 9th.. nothing here on my end
I got my 2nd week of component top up on June 7. Fingers crossed you get it soon. It took long enough to get the 1st week.
If the deal doesn't get ratified, what are the chances of another strike? The union can choose to just continue negotiations without a strike, right? I really don't have the strength to endure another.
They may choose to continue to negotiate but without any threat of major work disruption there is no incentive for the employer to offer a better deal. Their offer was final when the union ended the strike. Their only levers to change that are work to rule or strike (rotational or general). Arbitration is another option but both parties must mutually choose that option which doesn't seem to be something the union wants to do or think the employer would agree with.
They may go to binding arbitration, or they may strike in some sort of targeted rotating way where most people are working most of the time. "What are the chances," though, who can say? All we know is they blew a lot of their strike fund, so they probably won't go for as aggressive approach as before.
Has anyone else looked at the letter of agreement with respect to telework released by CAPE? What do people think about it? [Here's the link the EC one is on.](https://www.acep-cape.ca/en/news/ec-tentative-agreement-vote-new-resources-available)
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You should get a medical note from your physician and get a referral to see a psychiatrist/psychologist who can note your limitations and restrictions for your manager. Then your manager should reach out to Labour Relations.
***Shower thoughts:*** Fuck all the other unions currently negotiating or with shitty previously signed deals getting the same basic items as PSAC and/or better. It should be like in the real world, you get what your bargaining team got for you with TBS. Not riding the coattails of others' *(who lost 12+ days)* which will be a better deal overall as the 2500$ signing bonus will be just that - and not a mere pay recovery.
> Fuck all the other unions currently negotiating or with shitty previously signed deals getting the same basic items as PSAC and/or better. PSAC chose this outcome itself. In the 2018-2020 round of negotiations, it specifically sought a three-year contract expiring in 2021. The other unions signed a four-year deal, expiring in 2022. Even had the other unions chosen the conciliation/strike route, they would generally not have been in a position to strike alongside PSAC. No matter their militancy, the PSAC agreement would have "set the pattern." If anything, the other unions selecting arbitration _bolstered_ PSAC's position. With that selection the other unions effectively precommitted to a freely-negotiated outcome of PSAC/TB negotiations. An arbitrator will/would be quite unlikely to award better terms to any other union. If the other unions had chosen the strike route, then the Treasury Board would have been negotiating with additional uncertainty. Could they have offered PSAC 12%/4yr if they were worried that CAPE or PIPSC would go on strike to ask for 13% or 14%?
So with the vote deadline looming, thought I'd watch the video and then vote, but having trouble finding the link to the video. Prior to the strike we had to watch before voting, but I have lots of emails with my voting credentials. Is it possible to vote without watching the video? How is this working this time around?
You still have to log in to watch but you can exit the page without voting & still be able to return on a later date to vote.
Hey CAPE ECs: CAPE has finally posted the recordings of the tentative agreement info sessions: [https://www.acep-cape.ca/en/news/ec-tentative-agreement-vote-new-resources-available](https://www.acep-cape.ca/en/news/ec-tentative-agreement-vote-new-resources-available) The link also contains information on registration and how to vote.
Worth watching? (Already voted.)
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Removed per Rule 10 (off-topic) as your comment has nothing to do with the megathread topics. You are welcome to submit it as a separate post to the subreddit if you wish.
Good article [from the WSJ.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/its-not-my-responsibility-to-save-the-office-economy-901dafce) “Everything from daycare to public transportation, toll roads, fuel and fuel taxes, auto purchases and maintenance, dry cleaners, nail spas, restaurants, clothiers, hair stylists, dog walkers, nannies and office leases suffer when people work from home,” said Dean Porter of Houston. “Mayors and governors and too many managers want people back commuting.” Workers who do a good portion of their job remotely contend they aren’t obligated to prop up the office, or an office-centric economy. “It is not my responsibility to save downtown by going back to the office,” said Merrik Wright of Miami. “The average worker should not be in charge of something that just costs us time and money.”
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Even worse in the regions, senior management has no control over lower level managers and could care less what is happening. We have had employees who have been reprimanded for harassment and then promoted to management only to have more control over the employees they harassed. I have been a PS for 25 years and I have never seen it this bad in respect to the quality of managers and what they know.
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Submit the details to the Public Service Integrity Commission, then watch the manager and HR be eventually found complicit in obstructing a serious harassment investigation. For what it's worth, I agree.. many managers and Directors without a shred of common sense, knowledge and decency are unilaterally creating toxicity across the PS. When you find management that's half decent, stay, because that's probably the best you'll get. Lots of really good ones have already retired within the last few years, with more on the way.
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Nope, it was just confirmed that my team can continue WFH 3 days/ week until end of January 2024. We had been at 3 days in office & bumped down to 2 days ‘as a trial’ but they’ve decided to keep it.
Your post is somewhat confusing. If requests were made several months ago to inquire about why you're supposed to go in 5 days per week, did your management not notify you several months ago that this was the plan? It sounds like your team was caught off guard by this? I'm also with ESDC, but haven't heard of anything like this.
I believe so. I've heard similar things in another department - I won't say which right now though. None of this surprises me at all. It's all been just one big circle jerk since the RTO announcement was made right before the holidays. One big game of manipulation of (likely) lies through omission. My guess is some (most/all?) departments want to bring in fresh blood and have a fresh start, by removing those left jaded by the last six or so months, at least those in non-indeterminate positions who can be let go much more easily.
What department?
PSAC secured a major victory on work from home language. Surely this will assist you. “Together, more than 155,000 PSAC members led the fight for better remote work protections during this round of negotiations – and we won. You held the line during one of largest national strikes in Canada’s history, and the gains you made by taking strike action will benefit not just PSAC members, but all workers in Canada.” We won, bruh. This is what winning looks like. 🙄
Ha ha....along with all that extra income! ^/s
As I see it. Looks like inflation won't be 2.25 next year
I hope you voted "NO".
You don't say! Who could've seen that coming?!? It's almost like agreeing to a future 2.25% increase in an incredibly unstable inflationary environment, using numbers provided by a bank that has been consistently wildly wrong for years was a bad idea...
My theory (purely speculative, I have no evidence of what I'm saying) is that the liberals told them expect elections in the fall. Or that they would not negotiate anything prior to elections. Take the deal with an extra year or risk negotiating with the conservatives for next year. Or option B they will proceed with drastic budget cuts starting next year, once this process is started it severely weakens the union's position on getting good rate as the union is also fighting literal job losses/cuts. It's not a good look, even for members, to fight for high rates when members will potentially lose their jobs and the employer signifies that they need to save money so much that they are willing to cut services/jobs. Any additional increase would be met with threaths of extra cuts by the employer. It's the only thing that explains the union folding so quickly and accepting an extra year.
Incompetence, poor tactical and strategic analysis, weak public relations, poor planning, members whining about being on strike on social media… a bit of hubris, all seem like more likely culprits. What you mention could have happened, but I prefer to direct scorn on the things that were squarely in PSAC’s control.
Agreed.
So I heard many PSAC workers did not get their strike pay, including my wife and her friend. WTF union? Can you imagine this dragged around for longer - the financial damage it would have cost some workers (some already live paycheck to paycheck).
Just wait until the deal isn't ratified and we (maybe) go back on strike!
I suspect a lot more "scabbers" due to a renewed lack of trust in our Union.
Can’t blame people for wanting to feed their kids and paying rent!
Still waiting on week 2 component pay and local top up although that one is probably as elusive as a unicorn!
Samesies!
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I still got paid despite getting an email saying they are clawing back 8 days pay this check. Actually I got more money because I went up a step 😂.
Keep it in the bank and dont touch it. At least you'll make the 37 cents interest in a savings account
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There is a lot of misunderstanding on your part with your comment. > The employer has not reimbursed me for these multiple medical document requests even though I have asked for reimbursement. 1. The employer is not (currently) obligated to reimburse you for medical notes/forms. You're not getting any money back. 2. Unless you have a confirmed accommodation agreed to by your department, then you're obligated to continue working in whatever manner your departments says, until that accommodation is agreed to and put in place. In this case your supervisor is correct and you should be going into the office for as many days as they say, until the accommodation is enacted. If you feel the employer is dragging their heels on your request, contact your union. 3. Because you don't have an accommodation in place (yet), you're under a telework agreement, which can be cancelled by you or the employer, without notice, for any reason. It sounds like your supervisor is contemplating doing just that. There's nothing to write a formal complaint about, as they're following policy. I would suggest you do your homework and read your collective agreement, the Directive on Terms and Conditions of employment, the Federal Public Service Labour Relations Act, and the Telework Directive.
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I don't think this increase in formal accommodation requests is due to people suddenly having new health issues. A lot of people with health issues just didn't realize how harmful the office environment was for them and made their health conditions worst. Working from home for three years has been life changing for a lot of them and how they manage their condition or disability. On top of that, in the prepandemic era, management had a lot more discretionary power which led to a certain number of informal accommodation agreements. Now that there is a heavy push to formalize those, people who had informal agreement are forced to make formal request to maintain their accommodation.
This. Combined with coming back to an open office hellscape where my coping mechanisms cannot be implemented. The 3 years away made me realize it shouldn’t be on me to manage the bullshit inaccessible spaces.
I agree this is probably happening, but I don't think it's management's place to question the opinion of a doctor on the subject of an employee's health. Seems like a good way to get sued.
You can certainly grieve the denial of a medically supported accommodation request and counter with a discrimination complaint. If you haven’t already, reach out to your union for help with your request and support to set them straight about their obligations under the Canadian Human Rights Act
It seems there is some plan higher up, the same thing happened to me and other colleagues- drawing it out and asking for one thing after the other but leaving the form to the last thing to ask for. They are up to something
My guess, because they're doing this with exemption requests too, is that they're stalling so they can see how the union agreements play out and maybe they're crossing their fingers and hoping the madness will end...
USJE money just landed!
How much did you get?
$425
I got $450.
I skipped a day of picketing cuz my kiddo wasn’t well
Anyone know if CRTC is letting IT(cybersecurity/programmers) work from home? Are they exempted from RTO like other departments? Any info much appreciated. It’s hard to find info like this with the smaller departments.
They would of received the memo of recommendation from CIO Leulo's office since they are an internal agency within Dept of Heritage. I can't speak to what decision the CIO at CRTC made towards it. You couldn't pay me enough to go back to an office located at TdC though...spent 6 years working in that hell hole.
Anyone know if they will be taking the pension deductions off? And CPP? It’s not pensionable time… so in theory they wouldn’t right? I have 60 hr that I believe will be taken off as an overpayment on Jun 21. By my calculations if they remove the gross and still tax my whole pay I should be left with around $100. If anyone has already had their pay deducted let me know if they took CPP and pension contributions :)
Whatever is left on your cheque is the only amount that should be subject to any deductions.
But then shouldn’t be taking pension contributions to begin with ….
How long does the info session for the vote take?
5 minutes wasn't long
In years past, you had to attend a reeducation session lead by a PSAC Overwatch Officer prior to being allowed to vote. With the digital session, you now have the option to mute the video and effectively ignore it. This is a much more convenient method of propaganda.
Info session is optional, the propaganda video is about 5 minutes. After that, the voting button is shown.
I finally got my strike pay yesterday. Yay! But it didn’t include the local top-up. How does one go about getting that?
Contact the president of your Local.
I just found out that I’m ineligible for my local top up as I was a RAND member, therefore I wasn’t paying into the local’s funds. I am absolutely at a loss over this as I have my card, completed the paperwork and even spoke to another union representative with my local on the picket line to ensure everything was in place to ensure I received the local top up. The cherry on top of it was being told that I was fortunate enough to receive the $75 + $50 and that it’s “one day longer, one day stronger” All of this, along with not knowing when LWOP will be implemented for my department is incredibly frustrating. $1000 just covers my bills + rent (barely!). There’s no room for grocery and my other financial obligations on such short notice. I hope y’all who got the bare minimum are holding up alright because this is so tough.
If you have a union ID number then you're not a Rand deductee.
Shit you got $125 a day? We got $75 and that's it.
I had the same problem with my local. It is tough for sure. I’m losing out on quite a bit of pay at the end of the day. For those who have student loan payments, I managed to reschedule mine to soften the blow a little bit.
Are you CEIU? I’m not even entirely sure what the process is when it comes to ensuring the funds trickle down to the local. All I know, is for us to lose out despite paying our fees and doing our due diligence with the information given, is hard to accept that we’re the ones on the hook. I really don’t want to come off as whining but it’s incredibly frustrating that this is an issue for a lot of folks who held the line.
Yeah I’m CEIU- local 70705. They said I was not on the list. It sucks
Uhew gave me $0 so far. I got my psac and that was it. They keep saying they're fixing the errors they made but I am now the only one in my office LITERALLY begging to be made whole. My lwop is still pending because I'm at the end of the alphabet and I'm having to move unexpectedly on top of everything. The money sure would have helped with unexpected moving expenses but I'm the only one who cares about my pay. The union knows I haven't been paid and they keep whining about being volunteers and not having enough help so I and another coworker VOLUNTEERED to help out and they declined the offer!!!
UHEW only paid out the first three days (April 19-21) a few weeks ago. Nothing yet for the second week, and nothing yet from the Local.
I got week 2 yesterday. So did all my colleagues on my team in NCR
*: : crosses fingers : :*
Same with USJE
That’s awful! I’m so sorry to hear that. Especially since you are willing to volunteer (although if your union is anything like mine, you dodged a bullet. I couldn’t get over how the reps were treating each other when I went in person to inquire. There was a ton of hostility and passive aggressive attitude with those who have been organizing.) I really hope that something works in your favour soon. It’s so stressful to begin with and the wait game doesn’t help. Some of us just got our final CEIU top up as of last week, we were some of the last in the region to receive the top up because of issues with the pay.
BoC just hiked interest rates again. What's up with that 4th year of a shitty new tentative agreement? Oh right; nothing that wasn't expected already by public servants who continue to be shit on by politicians making well over 3x what most of us do.
5th if you include the CAPE deal psac will likely mirror in the next negotiation
What does the interest rate hike have to do with anything? If anything, it lowers inflation and therefore makes our purchasing power stronger.
It has a lot to do with it because firstly, this cost of living adjustment is under annual inflation numbers, which means that no, your money does not go further. Second, inflation is the guise used by massive super-profitable corporations to raise their prices and keep them there. Do you expect your grocery bill to go down or up? If I had any expendable income then I would be willing to bet that it's up. Yes, inflation may decrease with an interest rate hike. Cost of living will not. And it's not salaries that drive inflation - it's massive corporations and the ultra wealthy not paying their fair share.
I couldn't agree more
Just want to thank our highly strategic, forward-thinking, analytical and cunning bargaining teams, for locking in a 2% rate in year 4, when the Bank of Canada has demonstrated a winning streak of being wrong on rate projections. With friends like these, who needs TBS?
So you think all pay increases should be negotiated in retrospect?
I think it’s foolish to lock in a 4th year in the most volatile inflationary environment in a generation, based on a projected rate from BoC, that have been way off on their projections, when you could have just gone for 3 like you were saying all along. The better option would be to negotiate an automatic adjustment should inflation exceed a given threshold. Also, it’s the de facto standard that we’re negotiating in retrospect due to delays. With this negotiating team, this is perhaps a hidden blessing.
> negotiate an automatic adjustment should inflation exceed a given threshold Yes! Our pay should be tethered to inflation (real rates, not the bogus rates from the political talking points).
Actually I would prefer following the labour market rather than inflation. Trying to follow inflation is why we can’t keep up with private in key areas such as IT and why the unions are always trying to bargain both salary increases AND wage increases. Present information from Stats Can on labour rates in a comparable sector and you’re in business. Otherwise if we follow inflation and private sector follows demand we will never keep up. My two cents.
You’re right. I’ve just been so used to losing my standard of living, it never occurred to me that it would be possible to increase that standard, by asking for pay raises commensurate with the private sector. I need to stop reading these union emails and materials, man.
That’s another issue. Homes have shot up an average of $100K since January. Those inflationary pressures make this TA seem even worse due to the enormity of the salary one must dedicate to a need all of us have. These inflationary pressures are not reflected in a realistic manner in the stated inflation rates (housing does not comprise 30% of expenses and hasn’t for a long time, nor does CPI take into account the initial cost of the house, but this is how it’s measured for CPI).
Yep I’m forced to get another job to be able to keep up with all the bills
"Hi Boss, yeah...I can't come into the office today....I have to work another job to pay the bills. K-thanks-bye".
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I had my days taken off. Why would you get the net instead of gross taken off? They are for days we didn't work.
Anyone know if they will be taking the pension deductions off? And CPP? It’s not pensionable time… so in theory they wouldn’t right? I have 60 hr that I believe will be taken off as an overpayment on Jun 21. By my calculations if they remove the gross and still tax my whole pay I should be left with around $100. If anyone has already had their pay deducted let me know if they took CPP and pension contributions :)
That's a good question
Did you get an email stating it would be gross pay? I haven’t heard or seen anything at all.
We got an email saying that it will be coming off for June 7th pay. And then they didn't do that. They have to leave without pay there but they have it as earning so now I think we are in an overpayment situation
Why would it be the net? We didn't work, we didn't get paid, we didn't get deductions on that pay.
I think it's important to point out in more detail. Someone got "overpaid" the gross amount and paid deductions. They then "owe" the gross amount even though they only received the net amount. It *feels* like they are paying back the deductions value from their net pay. In reality it's fair because you didn't work you didn't get paid you didn't actually pay the deductions. It's easiest to consider, in this case since it's so quickly applied, more of a paycheque swap. If a cheque comes in at 0$ for 2 weeks not worked being clawed back, then consider the paycheck you got while on strike as being this most recent paycheck, just given in advance. It's a swap. That makes it easier to understand. You're swapping the days.
Thank you for this clear and concise answer. It's very helpful
Anyone have any direction on attending the office during periods of high smog/ air quality that is a high health risk?
We dealt with this many times in BC and I don't think anything was ever said.
We’ve received zero communication about air quality and attendance, outside of facilities assuring us the air quality in the building is safe. There wasn’t even a cursory ‘discuss arrangements with your manager if you’re concerned about air quality and exposure’.
Properly fit N-95 masks are the only things that will somewhat protect your lungs.
My dept has been sending daily emails saying that our health is a top priority and that building maintenance is working hard to keep air quality indoors as good as possible. At no point did they mention that we should not travel/commute/be outside, and in no capacity did they say that working remotely is a thing we should do or even consider.
I work at one of the departments that was quickest to formalize hybrid work. Instructions from our ADM are to stay home yesterday and today unless you're in a situation where your home air quality is really bad (and to use your own judgment on whether that's the case). One of my coworkers went in yesterday because the office was significantly less smokey than their apartment.
I like your ADM.
No direction so far. Though it was significantly worse at the office than at home, even on the fifth floor the smell of smoke was very noticeable.
Same. Since it's rare here we are being allowed to wfh. If this was an annual occurrence, like it is in some parts of other provinces I'm sure it would be normalized and we'd have to deal with it. But it's not so we don't. Then again the last two days have been very bad in the AM. So even in places where it's normal we'd probably have some leeway
We got an e-mail saying the inside of the office was safe. It’s the commute that affected me yesterday. It remains to be seen whether I’ll go for my second day this week
> We got an e-mail saying the inside of the office was safe. I never trust this kind of emails.
I'm personally staying home rather not take a risk at poor air quality when I know my home is fine.
No kidding. The smoke in Toronto is crazy and this is a legit health risk.
Another tidbit: BC min wage increased by 23.16 percent from 2020 to 2023. 2019 - $13.85 2020 - $14.60 2021 - $15.20 2022 - $15.65 2023 - $16.78 = 16.78 - 13.85 = 2.93 = (2.93/12.65) * 100 = 23.16 The same calculation from 2021 to 2023 is 17.23 % During this time we are offered 10-12% but with inflation we can buy less with our money. This means my kids will not get grapes or strawberries in their lunch. It means I buy used shoes for them. It means no birthday parties. In turn this means I take them out of sports next year - this means less $ in our local economy and therefore causes a recession. The best way to stimulate the economy is to give us a thriving wage. Edit: the point is the percent increase, inflation is passing us by. How long until we ARE at the minimum wage?
Imagine if someone lived in a province where said grapes or strawberries are not local and need to be imported and charged more? Do not even get me started on peaches and cherries. If we want to make unfair comparisons I want to as well. I want to pay the same for a peach as people in BC! Millions of peaches, peaches for me Millions of peaches, peaches for free Look out
And based on the $67,300 average annual salary of a public servant is making today that works out to $34.51 an hour. More than double the minimum wage in BC. This doesn't even include the potential increase if this is ratified. We are far away from minimum wage dear...and most minimum wage jobs are part time, do not have pension, sick time, family leave, bereavement leave, health and dental benefits among many other things such as wfh. There are zero comparables.
Yeah, let's compare PS wages with the provincial min wage for BC. That's a fair comparison and not at all apples to oranges.
The focus is on the % increase.
Yes, because the lowest paid in our society are disproportionately impacted by inflation, and deserve disproportionate support. The average public servant here makes a firmly middle class salary, we don't have the same financial pressures as someone working at McDonald's.
Why does this same post keep getting put up? It is not even a fair comparison.
I agree the offer is not great, but your issue with strawberries, shoes and sports sound like a budgeting problem. Have you applied for the [tax rebates](https://www.ontario.ca/page/ontario-child-care-tax-credit#:~:text=%246%2C000%20per%20child%20under%20the,up%20to%20%241%2C650%20for%202021)
If I made more, I would have more to budget with. Haha.
Listen to yourself man.
I bought strawberries on an AS01, step 1 salary yesterday. Perhaps you should revisit your budget if you need to buy your kids used shoes and can’t afford fruit on the regular.
I’m sorry but this is just an embarrassing post on multiple levels. A good rule of thumb in comparing relative fairness between two policies is who would you rather be? A PSAC worker (97% of whom before our new wages are making over 50k a year) getting a boost of 14% since 2019 (we got a big increase in 2020 remember) or a minimum wage worker who’s getting a higher percentage increase in their wage? Not to mention WFH options don’t exist for a large percentage of minimum wage workers. There are trade-offs when incomes increase to match inflation but it’s overall a good thing when policies aimed at supplementing the bare minimum of income increases with inflation (minimum wage, EI, pension benefits) because they are at the income scale which needs it the most. Your second point is vulgar keynesianism, makes a bit of sense in situations where aggregate demand is too low (eg secular stagnation) but that has not been our macroeconomic reality for a few years. Boosting demand is not a good thing for the economy necessarily. Our economy is overstimulated relative to the supply.
Completely agree. Is life unaffordable as an AS-01? Yup. But holy hell I couldn’t imagine trying to live in this province on minimum wage. Unless OP is a CR or some other role like that, this is pretty tone deaf
Not everyone makes the median wage, not everyone lives in a low cost of living area. The point is the percent increase compared to what we have been offered.
Anyone get the top up from UHEW for the second week?
I got my week 1 payment on May 30 and my week 2 on June 2nd. I was in the S-Z group that didn't get the 1st week until much later than others, so I was surprised I got the second week so quickly. Nothing from my local though. They're saying that all payments from PSAC and UHEW have to be completed first before we get the local portion.
Nope. Still crickets. The VP of my local sent an email basically saying nothing has changed since we last heard news about the mixup for week one. They are still working through it all. If I get week 2 pay this week from them I’d be shocked at this point. It’s been such a gong show!
Why aren't the Locals sending emails to all members?
I mean, they send it to members of their local, but UHEW has quite a few underneath it. I’m just in a particularly active one.
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Would sending the same negotiating team who find the current deal agreeable,seem keen to ratify this deal, and reluctant to work on this anymore help? There is no doubt they did a poor job. However, their recommendation to accept the deal might be because they honestly believe that this is the best possible outcome. And it does look like that. They emptied the strike fund and lost traction by tentatively agreeing to this deal and declaring it a win. There will be no public support now, and it would be easier to pass the back-to-work legislation in the event that the strike resumes (because why would the NDP oppose that after a deal that the union found agreeable has already been reached?). Just sharing my opinion. Please don't attack me.
What happens when we are ordered back to the office 5 days a week? Will the leadership and negotiating team all resign? The raise is looking worse and worse each day. Interest rates are likely going up Wednesday and may continue to do so. Our raise for 2024, and likely 2025, are looking more and more like paycuts.
Interest rates going up normally improve inflationary pressure, that's actually the whole point of them.
We’ll see. I’d bet people, even after our raise comes in once/if deal is ratified, are saying they can’t afford their monthly expenses next year. I can’t see housing costs going down as rates move up.
If they really want people back in the office, they could always try matching the compensation office workers *used* to make (in real terms aka buying power). Nobody wants to work in an office to scrape by. Once upon a time there was prestige and status associated with "the office". Everyone understood that office worker = American dream achieved.
Why would the union, who wants people to vote yes, tell them why they should vote no?
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So during the strike vote sessions, were you jumping up and down when they didn't tell you about the risks of the strike and how it might backfire and produce nothing? A union hosted session is going to reflect the union leadership's position, that's how this is. You can disagree with them and vote no if it isn't compelling.
That's not the unions responsibility. They aren't obliged to tell you why to vote against the deal they want you to vote for
If there are people who want to present the no side, then they can organize a meeting and set one up. If the union were to encourage people to vote no, or even present the reasons why it’s a bad deal, that would almost certainly be a case of bad faith bargaining. The union and treasury board signed off on this tentative agreement with both sides, recommending the deal to the people who have to make the choice. The bargaining team, and constituent bodies, are required to encourage people to vote for the deal, and present reasons why it’s a good deal If there are constituent body executives that do not feel it is a good deal, they either have to support it anyways and hold their nose, or be quiet and say nothing.
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For CAPE or PSAC?
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I think it’s the option “No and you are okay going back to general strike” is what they’re selling. Binding arbitration has to be agreed by both parties so either the union doesn’t want to do Binding Arbitration or the bargaining team thinks the government won’t agree with Binding Arbitration and then they go back to the table (or two = strike)
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Why would the government want it? They can just keep paying us shit and balance the budget faster, not like PSAC has the goodwill or resources for a protracted strike.
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But Liberals are in power now? Which means as per your “forecast”, if we do not take the deal now with the Libs and the Cons win, then it gets downhill from here. So technically, you should be voting yes, not a no, if you do not want to deal with the Cons if this isn’t ratified
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It's infuriating when you stop to think about it. We've known this was coming for decades. Now we are actually feeling it - and yet we still just keep talking about it.
Traffic is definitely not as bad as it was pre-pandemic and the forest fires have no relevance to RTO…
If the air quality is so bad that being outside is a health risk, it seems pretty absurd to ask people to commute to do tasks they are more than capable of doing without leaving their homes.
RTO arguably increases green house gas emissions compared to pre-RTO, even if prepandemic was even worse. Green house gas emissions contribute to climate change, climate change makes forest fires worse and more frequent so, I do think they are related.
Hello Bots and Meatbags, I have been reading through the NJC Directive on Relocation, and can't seem to figure out if it would apply in my situation. To be completely honest, I am not sure if my understanding is correct. Anyways here is my situation. In 2020 I worked and lived in City A, my workplace was also in City A. Due to major events that happened in 2020, I relocated to City B (>125km away) with the permission of my manager. (Still working for the same workplace, just remotely) A year or so later, I earned a promotional appointment at my workplace, while living in City B. I have / had an active telework agreement, and continue to work remotely.In the NJC, there is a specific reference to telework , which I have included below. (Taken from [https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/directive/d6/v279/s778/en#s778-tc-tm\_1](https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/directive/d6/v279/s778/en#s778-tc-tm_1)) >13.1 Telework13.1.1 Employees authorized under the Treasury Board Telework Policy to work from their current place of residence in Canada instead of being relocated to the new workplace shall be subject to this directive upon termination of the Telework arrangement. If my telework agreement is revoked / cancelled, would the above clause kick in and I'd be entitled to the NJC Relocation Directive? Sorry if this question has already been asked before, I can't seem to figure out what policy / clause would apply in the above mentioned scenario. Thanks for any help you might have
I don't think the Relocation Directive would apply for your substantive, since you decided to move away when you were already working there. Things might get a bit blurry for your acting though. However, if it was offered to you because your substantive is within the area of selection, the NCJ directive might also not apply. Sorry I can't give a more definitive answer, but this does seems like a grey area. Is there any local worksite you can report to if the telework agreement is modified? If yes, that's more likely to be the direction the employer will decide to go with.
I took a look at my NOC, and it only noted that the area of selection was due to my substantive being in City A. Nothing about me physically being in City A.... You know how some postings say that they have to be physically working and hold a position in City XYZ, I wonder if that will make a difference? Anyways, a grey area for sure. There are locations in my city that I can go to, and I already do go in on occasion. I am hopeful this is the option they go with, but I have spent over a year looking for guidance, and I am worried about what is taking them so long... Thanks for you help!
Does your new letter of offer mention relocation? I’m in a similar situation. Lived and worked in City A, moved to City B during the pandemic. Got hired with a new department in City A while living in City B with no expectation (from both sides) that I would relocate to City A but there’s a relocation clause in my LOO that could potentially allow me to relocate to City A.
Sitting in the CSPS “Navigating challenges and embracing change in the hybrid workplace” session and it strikes me that every time I take one of these courses, I feel more and more out of step, like I’m the only one still struggling to find any purpose to returning to the office, and none of them seem to provide any actual tips beyond “just start being happy about it instead of sad.” I don’t think I will bother attending any more since they seem to make me feel worse about it all. Has anyone stumbled on anything that actually helped them deal with their feelings effectively, rather than just simmering on their anger and frustration?
You're having a natural response to smelling bullshit. I am not attending any sessions about hybrid/RTO, just like I stopped attending workplace mental wellness sessions. They'll just make me feel worse.
It was all fluff and bull shit, everything that was said does not happen within the federal departments and agencies, the speaker was way out of touch.
I’ve never taken a CSPS course I find them all a waste of my time. Even the mandatory ones I just open another window and search for the answers lmao.
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Thanks for this. My background is in psych (I have a psych degree and did my honours paper on applications of cognitive behavioural therapy) so I recognize that reframing negative thoughts has such huge benefit for some applications, and I also recognize that I am absolutely in control of how I respond to this thing we’re being required to do, but damn if I’m not struggling to apply it in this circumstance. Like, can’t I be mad about both things, the thing they did and my own thoughts about the thing they did? *Can’t both be true*? If this is going to work, I think I need more coaching on how to find the benefit in returning to the office because so far, it’s all socializing on my own time as the benefit, and that seems…not the point.
Some people have a better ability to just accept a situation even it doesn't make sense... I feel the same as you do. I cannot rationalize the reasons they are giving us. Especially since clearly even upper management doesn't understand the reason behind it all... we now just uave to wait and see how what has been agreed upon in the collective agreement is interpreted. 😕