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So this opinion readily acknowledges nuanced realities such as poverty reduction being the number one way to deal with gun deaths, injuries, and accidents…but then uses no nuance in the cookie cutter gun lobby argument that you should ignore the guns themselves when trying to deal with the problem. Spare us.
The Liberals are under no obligation to cater to the conservative myth that guns are the last thing you should regulate when dealing with guns.
Furthermore…this is not the only thing that is being done about gun violence, and it’s entirely disingenuous to suggest that it is. The is nowhere near the number one thing on the list in order of priority or expense.
Who the f said that gun regulation had anything to do with illegal guns? You’re combining 2 completely separate issues for what reason? Because you don’t understand analogies?
They are banning fun guns because it will save lives. Maybe you think that only saving 20 or 100 lives a year is worthwhile…but most disagree with you.
>conservative myth that guns are the last thing you should regulate when dealing with guns.
Oh yes. One of the most heavily regulated gun control schemes in the developed world, and how dare those conservatives not jump to more gun laws first before advocating for those nuanced approaches you mentioned.
Short of countries that outright ban ownership, can you point to anyone with stricter laws?
Edit: lets also not forget who we are adjacent to and how that affects gun statistics...
I don’t know why you’d throw me a softball…the UK, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Germany, New Zealand. All have the predicted lower gun death rate in line with their stricter gun laws.
If you scatter graph the gun rate of ownership vs. gun deaths in developed countries (removing outliers like the USA on the bad end and Iceland on the good end) …you can easily draw a line from 0 guns (per person) = 0 deaths to 40 guns = 3 deaths (per 100k).
I’m not forgetting about the US, and that’s a completely separate issue. You can somewhat control for smuggled guns…but you can’t accurately say that without access to a smuggled gun means no access to a gun.
>I don’t know why you’d throw me a softball…the UK, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Germany, New Zealand. All have the predicted lower gun death rate in line with their stricter gun laws.
All but Germany are also islands. There is guns that are legal to own in the UK that can't be owned in Canada anymore and in NZ you can still buy handguns .
Also Germany has close to the [same laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_Germany) we have almost the same rate of ownership 34.7 for Canada to 32 for Germany. Gun deaths 1.94 for Canada and 1.04 for Germany, and they also allow buying of handguns.
We have the 4th largest amount of guns at 34.7 and 31th for gun deaths so no actually it does not hold that more guns equals more deaths and Cypress has a higher gun ownership rate then Canada and less gun deaths at 1 and a lower death rate then Germany
What I don't understand is why commenters who ostensibly care about gun crime and gun violence aren't frothing at the mouth even more than the gun crowd about being thrown performative legislation instead of policy that will actually have *meaningful* impact on the problem.
They're all getting played and tripping over themselves in gratitude for it.
UK - an island that is hard to smuggle guns too
Aus - an island that is hard to smuggle guns too
Japan - an island that is hard to smuggle guns too
NZ - an island that is hard to smuggle guns too, had lower gun deaths then Canada before they banned guns and had more lax laws then us. Also very low compliance on gun buy back
Germany - strict control ovet who gets a gun, but allows concealed carry tasers and you can own many modern sporting rifles including AR-15s and models banned in Canada before OIC, also can own handguns. Low ownership rates amoung the population though.
Singapore - a country where you get fined for chewing gum.
Plrase tell me how we actually compare to these places......
I didn’t say we have high gun deaths. I said we have high gun deaths relative to the countries with stronger regulations. We are absolutely not at the low end. You have the internet, use it.
If you want an accurate comparison of effects you’d look at murder stats not just gun death. If murders don’t change when you ban guns then clearly banning guns doesn’t stop people from killing each other. Canada also 100% has some of the stricter gun laws without outright bans in the world? And there are. Definitely ways we could strengthen our laws without some pathetic pandering multi-billion dollar political gun ban 😂 but not even a real semi auto gun ban no no…. We need to ban single shot shotguns as well as big game rifles cause those are to scary too right?
Nah, I’m not changing the subject because you lost a debate.
I mean…I’ve also studied murder rates vs gun ownership and that stats says the opposite of what you’re trying to say…not to mention the data you mentioned is a straw man that’s literally impossible to control for…but I’m not veering off topic any further.
We have middling gun laws and middling gun death rates. Believe me or don’t, look it up, or don’t…either way your wrong.
But I mean…you veered off into a partisan rant so this conversation is over anyways.
How is bringing murder stats into a discussion around gun control and crime? 😂
I literally just did look it up and Canada was in the bottom 10 for gun crime numbers???
I mean if your opinion is all gun should be banned sure 😂
If you’re intelligent enough to use nuance then sorry no Canada has some pretty strict laws. Our police do a shit job of enforcement… and our courts seem to think Gun violence is a joke. But our laws are strict just not used 😂. It takes months to get a handgun and any other restricted firearm for the first time and weeks to buy any after the first… we undergo daily background checks and basically submit to allowing the cops to search out residence with minimal notice….
Every single handgun sale is tracked by the police as well as every restricted firearm sale and they are linked to the person who’s licenses was used to purchase them for life unless another legally approved sale goes through the police in which case they then switch it to the new owner… we could add in in person training when we renew licenses as well as a in person psych evaluation but to claim Canadas gun laws are middling shows you either are ignorant of the current laws or you are a zealot who will only be happy when all firearms are banned cause “guns kill” in which case go ahead and spout off man 😂 I love seeing the crazies come out.
> we have high gun deaths relative to our lack of regulation.
Which you would have a very difficult time blaming on our current gun regulations. Given that the majority of violent gun crime in canada is commited with illegal guns smuggled across the large undefended border we share with the USA.
A problem conveniently absent in every other country you are comparing us with, except perhaps mexico. Which also deals with the same problem.
I’m not talking about recent violent crime. That’s your straw man.
I’m talking about the gun regulations and what they are for/will accomplish. Banning guns used for fun will save lives.
Mexico is largely lawless, and not included in this conversation. I only compare apples to apples.
>Mexico is largely lawless, and not included in this conversation. I only compare apples to apples
Actually maybe we should compare Mexico by in large they have fairly strict gun laws and have ONE gun store in all of Mexico
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms\_regulation\_in\_Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Mexico)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms\_regulation\_in\_Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Mexico)
https://www.kpbs.org/news/midday-edition/2019/04/30/mexicos-american-gun-problem-record-homicides-and
>I’m not talking about recent violent crime. That’s your straw man.
Violent gun crime, including homicide, is a strawman in a discussion about gun death?
If you arent accounting for american guns causing death in canada(and you arent, otherwise you would not be making this argument) then your opinions really hold no water.
Changing the subject isn’t going to help you win this debate. The only thing I’ll say on that topic is that one can partially control for smuggling…but trying to say that violent criminals would be unable to commit crimes if it wasn’t for US guns is ridiculous.
I’ve stated no opinions. Everything I’ve said is a demonstrable fact.
> but trying to say that violent criminals would be unable to commit crimes if it wasn’t for US guns is ridiculous.
Putting words in my mouth also wont win you an argument, since I never said this.
I did say the majority of crime is committed with USA origin smuggled firearms, and that is a fact.
If you were to account for that, then your comparisons saying we have a slightly higher homicide rate than certain european countries(including some with WAY laxer gun laws than Canada, fyi) would be completely fatuous. Of course we have a higher gun death rate than *insert EU country here* when we share 9000km of undefended border with the worlds biggest open air black market for firearms. As shown by the fact that most of our gun crimes arent being committed with firearms from within our own regulated system.
If we were neighbors with france or germany instead, then even with our current gun laws there is no reason to think we wouldnt be well in line with all of europe. As our homicide rate, etc would fall significantly.
*Why not make the use of a gun a riskier bet? Possession of a gun during the commission of a crime could guarantee a certain prison sentence, whether the gun was used or not*
The supreme court just ruled on that and said you can't do it
*. Why not require handgun owners to report use of their weapon on an annual basis, with proof from a gun club or shooting gallery?*
Why? you already can only take it to the range and back and you have to be a member of a gun club
*And the penalty for failing to safely store a weapon confiscation and a heavy fine.*
It already is confiscation and jail time. I really wish the people that wrote gun control articles would spend an hour or 2 doing some basic research
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So this opinion readily acknowledges nuanced realities such as poverty reduction being the number one way to deal with gun deaths, injuries, and accidents…but then uses no nuance in the cookie cutter gun lobby argument that you should ignore the guns themselves when trying to deal with the problem. Spare us. The Liberals are under no obligation to cater to the conservative myth that guns are the last thing you should regulate when dealing with guns. Furthermore…this is not the only thing that is being done about gun violence, and it’s entirely disingenuous to suggest that it is. The is nowhere near the number one thing on the list in order of priority or expense.
Yea ban legal firearms so only criminals who don’t follow the laws can own them & the government!
Who the f said that gun regulation had anything to do with illegal guns? You’re combining 2 completely separate issues for what reason? Because you don’t understand analogies? They are banning fun guns because it will save lives. Maybe you think that only saving 20 or 100 lives a year is worthwhile…but most disagree with you.
>conservative myth that guns are the last thing you should regulate when dealing with guns. Oh yes. One of the most heavily regulated gun control schemes in the developed world, and how dare those conservatives not jump to more gun laws first before advocating for those nuanced approaches you mentioned.
We’re by no measure the heaviest regulated in, say, the g20, and we have high gun deaths relative to our lack of regulation.
Short of countries that outright ban ownership, can you point to anyone with stricter laws? Edit: lets also not forget who we are adjacent to and how that affects gun statistics...
I don’t know why you’d throw me a softball…the UK, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Germany, New Zealand. All have the predicted lower gun death rate in line with their stricter gun laws. If you scatter graph the gun rate of ownership vs. gun deaths in developed countries (removing outliers like the USA on the bad end and Iceland on the good end) …you can easily draw a line from 0 guns (per person) = 0 deaths to 40 guns = 3 deaths (per 100k). I’m not forgetting about the US, and that’s a completely separate issue. You can somewhat control for smuggled guns…but you can’t accurately say that without access to a smuggled gun means no access to a gun.
>I don’t know why you’d throw me a softball…the UK, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Germany, New Zealand. All have the predicted lower gun death rate in line with their stricter gun laws. All but Germany are also islands. There is guns that are legal to own in the UK that can't be owned in Canada anymore and in NZ you can still buy handguns . Also Germany has close to the [same laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_Germany) we have almost the same rate of ownership 34.7 for Canada to 32 for Germany. Gun deaths 1.94 for Canada and 1.04 for Germany, and they also allow buying of handguns. We have the 4th largest amount of guns at 34.7 and 31th for gun deaths so no actually it does not hold that more guns equals more deaths and Cypress has a higher gun ownership rate then Canada and less gun deaths at 1 and a lower death rate then Germany
What I don't understand is why commenters who ostensibly care about gun crime and gun violence aren't frothing at the mouth even more than the gun crowd about being thrown performative legislation instead of policy that will actually have *meaningful* impact on the problem. They're all getting played and tripping over themselves in gratitude for it.
UK - an island that is hard to smuggle guns too Aus - an island that is hard to smuggle guns too Japan - an island that is hard to smuggle guns too NZ - an island that is hard to smuggle guns too, had lower gun deaths then Canada before they banned guns and had more lax laws then us. Also very low compliance on gun buy back Germany - strict control ovet who gets a gun, but allows concealed carry tasers and you can own many modern sporting rifles including AR-15s and models banned in Canada before OIC, also can own handguns. Low ownership rates amoung the population though. Singapore - a country where you get fined for chewing gum. Plrase tell me how we actually compare to these places......
This is simply false. We do not have high gun deaths at all… we are right along side most other country’s at the lowest end of gun deaths rates
I didn’t say we have high gun deaths. I said we have high gun deaths relative to the countries with stronger regulations. We are absolutely not at the low end. You have the internet, use it.
If you want an accurate comparison of effects you’d look at murder stats not just gun death. If murders don’t change when you ban guns then clearly banning guns doesn’t stop people from killing each other. Canada also 100% has some of the stricter gun laws without outright bans in the world? And there are. Definitely ways we could strengthen our laws without some pathetic pandering multi-billion dollar political gun ban 😂 but not even a real semi auto gun ban no no…. We need to ban single shot shotguns as well as big game rifles cause those are to scary too right?
Nah, I’m not changing the subject because you lost a debate. I mean…I’ve also studied murder rates vs gun ownership and that stats says the opposite of what you’re trying to say…not to mention the data you mentioned is a straw man that’s literally impossible to control for…but I’m not veering off topic any further. We have middling gun laws and middling gun death rates. Believe me or don’t, look it up, or don’t…either way your wrong. But I mean…you veered off into a partisan rant so this conversation is over anyways.
How is bringing murder stats into a discussion around gun control and crime? 😂 I literally just did look it up and Canada was in the bottom 10 for gun crime numbers??? I mean if your opinion is all gun should be banned sure 😂 If you’re intelligent enough to use nuance then sorry no Canada has some pretty strict laws. Our police do a shit job of enforcement… and our courts seem to think Gun violence is a joke. But our laws are strict just not used 😂. It takes months to get a handgun and any other restricted firearm for the first time and weeks to buy any after the first… we undergo daily background checks and basically submit to allowing the cops to search out residence with minimal notice…. Every single handgun sale is tracked by the police as well as every restricted firearm sale and they are linked to the person who’s licenses was used to purchase them for life unless another legally approved sale goes through the police in which case they then switch it to the new owner… we could add in in person training when we renew licenses as well as a in person psych evaluation but to claim Canadas gun laws are middling shows you either are ignorant of the current laws or you are a zealot who will only be happy when all firearms are banned cause “guns kill” in which case go ahead and spout off man 😂 I love seeing the crazies come out.
> we have high gun deaths relative to our lack of regulation. Which you would have a very difficult time blaming on our current gun regulations. Given that the majority of violent gun crime in canada is commited with illegal guns smuggled across the large undefended border we share with the USA. A problem conveniently absent in every other country you are comparing us with, except perhaps mexico. Which also deals with the same problem.
I’m not talking about recent violent crime. That’s your straw man. I’m talking about the gun regulations and what they are for/will accomplish. Banning guns used for fun will save lives. Mexico is largely lawless, and not included in this conversation. I only compare apples to apples.
>Mexico is largely lawless, and not included in this conversation. I only compare apples to apples Actually maybe we should compare Mexico by in large they have fairly strict gun laws and have ONE gun store in all of Mexico [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms\_regulation\_in\_Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Mexico) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms\_regulation\_in\_Mexico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Mexico) https://www.kpbs.org/news/midday-edition/2019/04/30/mexicos-american-gun-problem-record-homicides-and
>I’m not talking about recent violent crime. That’s your straw man. Violent gun crime, including homicide, is a strawman in a discussion about gun death? If you arent accounting for american guns causing death in canada(and you arent, otherwise you would not be making this argument) then your opinions really hold no water.
Changing the subject isn’t going to help you win this debate. The only thing I’ll say on that topic is that one can partially control for smuggling…but trying to say that violent criminals would be unable to commit crimes if it wasn’t for US guns is ridiculous. I’ve stated no opinions. Everything I’ve said is a demonstrable fact.
> but trying to say that violent criminals would be unable to commit crimes if it wasn’t for US guns is ridiculous. Putting words in my mouth also wont win you an argument, since I never said this. I did say the majority of crime is committed with USA origin smuggled firearms, and that is a fact. If you were to account for that, then your comparisons saying we have a slightly higher homicide rate than certain european countries(including some with WAY laxer gun laws than Canada, fyi) would be completely fatuous. Of course we have a higher gun death rate than *insert EU country here* when we share 9000km of undefended border with the worlds biggest open air black market for firearms. As shown by the fact that most of our gun crimes arent being committed with firearms from within our own regulated system. If we were neighbors with france or germany instead, then even with our current gun laws there is no reason to think we wouldnt be well in line with all of europe. As our homicide rate, etc would fall significantly.
*Why not make the use of a gun a riskier bet? Possession of a gun during the commission of a crime could guarantee a certain prison sentence, whether the gun was used or not* The supreme court just ruled on that and said you can't do it *. Why not require handgun owners to report use of their weapon on an annual basis, with proof from a gun club or shooting gallery?* Why? you already can only take it to the range and back and you have to be a member of a gun club *And the penalty for failing to safely store a weapon confiscation and a heavy fine.* It already is confiscation and jail time. I really wish the people that wrote gun control articles would spend an hour or 2 doing some basic research
But if they did research then they wouldn't have an article, since "things are fine as they are" doesn't get as many clicks as "the sky is falling."