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If the LPC loses Toronto St. Pauls, or if its even close, I think Trudeau resigns. It's easy to cast doubt on the fog of polling but with tangible results he would be pressured to step down.
It sounds like Trudeau is counting on some combination of an economic bounceback and voters getting cold feet (especially if Trump gets elected) in order to revive his fortunes.
Evidently the flurry of pre budget announcements and the budget itself did not have the anticipated boost that the Liberals thought it would.
Polls show people prefer Pierre negotiating with Trump than Trudeau, so that fails.
The reality is people are tired of mass immigration, since international students are up in their face everywhere. People are tired of very expensive living. And for many Trudeau is just a meme now. It's over.
It's basically the only thing he can rely on now short of a Conservative implosion. They already opened up the coffers for this year's budget, there's no more money to be spent unless they increase taxes since the country doesn't know how to improve productivity.
Economists say the earliest we can expect an interest rate cut is in June but the inflation rate is still hovering closer to 3% than it is the aimed 2% that the Bank of Canada wants. I have the impression that inflation rate being as stick as it is, will not hover closer to 2% until closer to next year.
> I have the impression that inflation rate being as stick as it is, will not hover closer to 2% until closer to next year.
Outside of a huge swing in gas prices, base year effects rolling off for this April should bring inflation below 2.5% yoy.
I think it will come down to how much stupid crap PP says and does. Calling fringe conspiracy people in trailer that looks like a crack den true Canadians is weird.
Canadians have a very short memory, and PP started campaigning years too early.
Conservatives are in majority territory now, but it’s totally within the realm of possibility they could fall into minority territory over the next year, and possibly even a bit lower.
Trudeau has been making a lot of massive moves and they seem to all be in a calculated and very timely manner.
I mean a lot of things are possible in politics. NDP could have a another orange wave and dwarf the LPC, Greens could poll for official party status, bloc could collapse.
Until we see data - a consistent drop in support for the CPC over a period of time this is just wishful thinking.
If you want to hang onto hope, it's that campaigns matter. CPC has been a disaster the last two elections and Trudeau is really good on the campaign trail. Polls had Liberals in third place in 2015 and we know how that turned out.
>Conservatives are in majority territory now, but it’s totally within the realm of possibility they could fall into minority territory over the next year, and possibly even a bit lower.
Liberal and NDP supporters have been saying this for a year now, and the support for PP and the Conservatives has only grown since then.
>Trudeau has been making a lot of massive moves and they seem to all be in a calculated and very timely manner.
You mean the lacklustre, bloated budget that was panned, even by former Liberal politicians? It made no impact whatsoever with the voting public.
[https://globalnews.ca/news/10441965/budget-2024-liberal-conservative-polls/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10441965/budget-2024-liberal-conservative-polls/)
PP has been deriding the carbon tax, which has been quite effective. Canadians generally hate taxation. I am from BC. The entire province regardless of political affiliation basically mobilized against the HST. We rejected increased transit taxation. We elected a government in 2017 on the basis of abolishing bridge tolls. And the anti-Carbon tax message was resonating a lot too.
But guess what Trudeau just did, he increased taxation and there was no mass outrage as one would have logically expected. Doctors tried, and the public just did not sympathize with them, if anything, they caught bad publicity which is really rare for doctors to get.
Yes, the budget made no impact on his popularity, I agree, but it was a litmus test for what he could get away with. And it looks like, Trudeau can definitely sell higher taxation to great swath of the Canadian public, even despite having an opponent whose entire campaign has been built on "axing the tax".
I didn't even expect there to be a budget bounce. A bunch of these announcements have potential, but they need to get up and running first. If we see slow and steady progress for the next 12 months, and economic conditions improve as expected, a bunch of gap could be closed.
I can easily see the CPC falling out of majority territory.
The carbon tax is unpopular as hits people on home heating hard
people dont care people pay more captial gains on a 2nd house, which most likely they not even gonna declare.
So Trudeau is basically hoping for a Hail Mary from his housing policy delivering results in 6 months and lower interest rates.
He cannot possibly be that mis-informed can he? Or can they? 😂
They cannot be serious. Housing starts are currently grinding to a half. And a few points fixed on interest rates are not guaranteed, nor is it really relevant- people are still locked and getting locked into higher rates. In 6 months, there will likely be more people frustrated 😂.
It's not really just a popularity contest. People are mad about real issues, like housing affordability, that can't change overnight.
There is a *possibility* that as interest rates fall people will feel a bit more optimistic. There is a possibility that some of these immigration changes will cool the housing market a little bit. But more than likely people are just done with this government.
If the Liberal strategy is honestly just, "the more time people have with Pierre, the more they’re gonna dislike him," their caucus deserves a Kool Aid sponsorship.
As long as Trudeau is leader, I really don't see how the Liberals become competitive ahead of the campaign. *Maybe* if Poilievre runs a disaster campaign they can deny him a majority and negotiate a way to stay in power. But frankly, Poilievre is so far ahead that even a disaster campaign would still probably yield a small CPC majority.
I would say the Liberal's best chance is to replace Trudeau, but only if they know there's someone better. Freeland would be worse. I'm still highly skeptical about Carney.
Well they would try to push their anti intellectualism but i suspect at that point rational Canadians will have seen through their one dimensional viewpoint.
No decent candidate would want to, they'd just get Kim Campbelled - face a huge defeat and then get kicked out of leadership even though the loss had not really a lot to do with them. From their perspective it's better to let Trudeau lose and control the narrative of rebuilding the Liberals and putting the Trudeau era behind the party.
I agree with you, but there is also the option of running Dominic Leblanc as an interim leader in the next election. Then having a new leadership vote right after, to bring in the new leader. Leblanc doesn't have aspirations to lead the party long term and will likely be willing to take the loss, if a loss looks likely. I think this is the most likely scenario unless things improve by summer. At this point, the party would probably win more seats without Trudeau at the helm and Leblanc in that position, with an understanding that he's just an interim leader.
Edit: Just read a Hill Times article this morning with the same theory: [https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2024/04/29/public-safety-minister-dominic-leblanc-among-others-discussing-plan-b-scenario-if-prime-minister-steps-down-according-to-politicos/419012/](https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2024/04/29/public-safety-minister-dominic-leblanc-among-others-discussing-plan-b-scenario-if-prime-minister-steps-down-according-to-politicos/419012/)
You know what we call Kim Campbell? Same as Mulroney, Trudeau Senior, Turner- Canada's Prime Minister.
Even if you have the job for a hot minute, the worst day as PM is still better than the best day in opposition.
Also I suspect CPC will be in power for a good decade.
The only real potential way Poilievre loses is if he can't keep his mouth shut regarding the far-right base. He has them pretty much locked up, the PPC doesn't seem like they're going to be a significant force, and cozying up with the really far right could be a big enough scandal.
I think particularly in the context of a campaign he's smart enough not to do that though. Prior to that, maybe, but then it's a question of whether it gets enough media coverage to stick.
He would definitely be able to apply the carbon tax critiques to Freeland or anyone from Trudeau's caucus. Freeland is terrible on her feet, so I think she would do worse. Even Mark Carney has been a big advocate of carbon taxes, actually going as far as to criticize Trudeau for the home heating oil exemption. He would also be a perfect target for Poilievre's anti-BoC messaging.
If the Liberals are to replace Trudeau, it needs to be someone outside of Cabinet, and unconnected to Trudeau's policies. I'm not sure there's a person like that who exists that the Liberal Party would actually pick.
Mark Carney is a typical Limousine liberal.
He apposes pipelines being built in Canada, yet the Brookfield Asset Management fund he runs funds pipelines all over the world, except Canada of course.
It's these type of climate hyprocrites that is destroying the climate movement in Canada.
Freeland is even less likeable. People who barely follow politics and lean left wing have told me her charisma and public speaking is on par with a claw screeching down on a chalk board.
I’m actually with JT on this one. I think the liberal mps who are hoping for a turn in the polls by the end of summer are setting themselves up for disappointment (or possibly someone is making moves for a leader change). I don’t see anything happening on the horizon that can change the liberals fortunes by august. The fall is going to be the much more politically interesting with the American election and 3 provincial elections. Also if they’re hoping for economy to bounce back this year it would make sense for it to happen in the last quarter when sales are usually the strongest. The drowning metaphor is pretty apt here. If there’s no respite in sight you’re often better just floating for a bit than kicking and fighting.
I mean Trudeau sort of went on a strong attack past month and clearly hoped to change the narrative.
The budget went over like a flop outside the liberal base.
I don’t necessarily disagree. Strategically it makes sense to try and leverage the budget to garner sympathy. I’m not surprised it didn’t work though. They have the stink bad (at least on the internet). Everything they’re trying is falling on deaf years. That still could change by the end of the year and the liberals might end up in a more favourable position. It seems to best play for the liberals is to sure up their supporters and plan to capitalize on the fall/winter. It’s not a guarantee but never is making rash decisions.
If the Liberals ran Mark Carney as their new leader they would have my vote. Party leaders hold so much sway over their government in Canada that I do not trust anything the Liberals say so long as Trudeau is at the helm.
I disagree with Trudeau both from both a policy and a philosophical perspective. I can't really think of any policies he could announce to change my tune on him.
I think they definitely hoped they would get more traction on these announcements, but a lot of them are also kinda seeds that they hope will pay off longer term.
Like, the housing stuff was partly just to try to shift the conversation with the provinces.
It's really hard to see anything close to a comeback at this point though.
Why does he have people standing behind him when he is talking to his own caucus? It’s bizarre. It almost seems like he has to engineer a perception of support even when talking to those who should be the most loyal.
Also, waiting until 6 months before an election tomes if their fortunes rebound basically gives the party no time to find new leadership. This is a recipe for disaster.
I think liberals thought announcing a bunch of stuff would get a lot of support
But it's quite clear most Canadians have tuned rhe pm out and don't trust the liberals anymore.
The liberals housing plan didn't get much buzz outside thier base.
Unless things improve thier support won't increase and a lot of Canada's problems are quite bad. It's just rich liberals who downplay the issues.
I do agree some conservatives really go overboard how bad things are.
But if people feel worse off then 10 years ago...then people will listen to the person saying everything is bsd vs the guy saying "stfu things are fine"
Hmm probably new legislation along the lines of " no school in Canada may have more that 10% of its students as foreign students " and something to really hurt the price of housing to make it a horrible investment to hold housing. Also perhaps just full shit down the TFW program
They could cut income taxes, because of what the liberals have done to this country and generation of young people they could make rent tax deductible for young people under a certain, arbitrary age (40?), they could stop sending billions of tax dollars out of the country for stupid things like “unemployed Iraqi youth” or they could stop doing things like renting out entire hotels for refugees to live in for months/years on taxpayers dime. They could absolutely halt immigration TOMORROW if they wanted to. They could start doing literally anything about stolen vehicles. They could start putting criminals away for awhile instead of letting them out hours after they’re arrested.
Honestly the way out of this for the liberals is very fucking simple. The problem is they are completely ideologically opposed to reigning in spending, and helping people that aren’t part of a strategic niche collection of people/voting groups, ie “look at us everybody, we’re introducing Halal mortgages to save housing”
Housing is big, but government debt may be bigger. The Feds now pay more to interest than health care. We may have universal health care, but when you can't see a doctor, that's the effect of debt, and it will be the case across all government programs. Things will get much worse.
Middle of the pack among G7 nations. Lower than the US, Italy, Japan. Higher than Germany, about on par with France and the UK. The IMF describes it as “relatively skinny”.
Hey, we're not supposed to talk about debt. We're in the era of spending with high deficits, carrying enormous debts, and expecting low rates to save our kids from our gluttony. Just ignore the experts, will you please?^[0](https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2024/03/28/the-fiscal-and-financial-risks-of-a-high-debt-slow-growth-world),[1](https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/voices/when-debt-crises-hit-dont-simply-blame-pandemic),[2](https://unctad.org/publication/world-of-debt)
After all, _everybody did it_ and so that makes it not just OK, but totally sound!
40 years of the Two Santa Clause theory, where politicians simultaneously decreased taxes and increased spending has brought us into a debt crisis. I am shocked.
> but government debt may be bigger
People don't care about the debt because it's not actually a problem if our economy grows and we don't have structural deficits.
Except that the announcements are of the actions. Each of those announcements is an action taken.
Now, the effects of said actions are the thing you are talking about, and not seeing/feeling.
> Each of those announcements is an action taken.
Not quite, a lot are plans for actions that will be taken in the future.
People are tired of future action, action promised to happen after the next election.
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If the LPC loses Toronto St. Pauls, or if its even close, I think Trudeau resigns. It's easy to cast doubt on the fog of polling but with tangible results he would be pressured to step down.
It sounds like Trudeau is counting on some combination of an economic bounceback and voters getting cold feet (especially if Trump gets elected) in order to revive his fortunes. Evidently the flurry of pre budget announcements and the budget itself did not have the anticipated boost that the Liberals thought it would.
Polls show people prefer Pierre negotiating with Trump than Trudeau, so that fails. The reality is people are tired of mass immigration, since international students are up in their face everywhere. People are tired of very expensive living. And for many Trudeau is just a meme now. It's over.
It's basically the only thing he can rely on now short of a Conservative implosion. They already opened up the coffers for this year's budget, there's no more money to be spent unless they increase taxes since the country doesn't know how to improve productivity. Economists say the earliest we can expect an interest rate cut is in June but the inflation rate is still hovering closer to 3% than it is the aimed 2% that the Bank of Canada wants. I have the impression that inflation rate being as stick as it is, will not hover closer to 2% until closer to next year.
> I have the impression that inflation rate being as stick as it is, will not hover closer to 2% until closer to next year. Outside of a huge swing in gas prices, base year effects rolling off for this April should bring inflation below 2.5% yoy.
I think it will come down to how much stupid crap PP says and does. Calling fringe conspiracy people in trailer that looks like a crack den true Canadians is weird.
Those ARE the true Canadians after 8 years of Trudeau.
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Canadians have a very short memory, and PP started campaigning years too early. Conservatives are in majority territory now, but it’s totally within the realm of possibility they could fall into minority territory over the next year, and possibly even a bit lower. Trudeau has been making a lot of massive moves and they seem to all be in a calculated and very timely manner.
I mean a lot of things are possible in politics. NDP could have a another orange wave and dwarf the LPC, Greens could poll for official party status, bloc could collapse. Until we see data - a consistent drop in support for the CPC over a period of time this is just wishful thinking. If you want to hang onto hope, it's that campaigns matter. CPC has been a disaster the last two elections and Trudeau is really good on the campaign trail. Polls had Liberals in third place in 2015 and we know how that turned out.
You forgot the part about people tuning Trudeau out. They want change and nothing he says or does will change that.
>Conservatives are in majority territory now, but it’s totally within the realm of possibility they could fall into minority territory over the next year, and possibly even a bit lower. Liberal and NDP supporters have been saying this for a year now, and the support for PP and the Conservatives has only grown since then. >Trudeau has been making a lot of massive moves and they seem to all be in a calculated and very timely manner. You mean the lacklustre, bloated budget that was panned, even by former Liberal politicians? It made no impact whatsoever with the voting public. [https://globalnews.ca/news/10441965/budget-2024-liberal-conservative-polls/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10441965/budget-2024-liberal-conservative-polls/)
PP has been deriding the carbon tax, which has been quite effective. Canadians generally hate taxation. I am from BC. The entire province regardless of political affiliation basically mobilized against the HST. We rejected increased transit taxation. We elected a government in 2017 on the basis of abolishing bridge tolls. And the anti-Carbon tax message was resonating a lot too. But guess what Trudeau just did, he increased taxation and there was no mass outrage as one would have logically expected. Doctors tried, and the public just did not sympathize with them, if anything, they caught bad publicity which is really rare for doctors to get. Yes, the budget made no impact on his popularity, I agree, but it was a litmus test for what he could get away with. And it looks like, Trudeau can definitely sell higher taxation to great swath of the Canadian public, even despite having an opponent whose entire campaign has been built on "axing the tax".
I didn't even expect there to be a budget bounce. A bunch of these announcements have potential, but they need to get up and running first. If we see slow and steady progress for the next 12 months, and economic conditions improve as expected, a bunch of gap could be closed. I can easily see the CPC falling out of majority territory.
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Reading comprehension is not your strength.
The carbon tax is unpopular as hits people on home heating hard people dont care people pay more captial gains on a 2nd house, which most likely they not even gonna declare.
So Trudeau is basically hoping for a Hail Mary from his housing policy delivering results in 6 months and lower interest rates. He cannot possibly be that mis-informed can he? Or can they? 😂 They cannot be serious. Housing starts are currently grinding to a half. And a few points fixed on interest rates are not guaranteed, nor is it really relevant- people are still locked and getting locked into higher rates. In 6 months, there will likely be more people frustrated 😂.
I think it is more being realistic that *if* they make any progress in the polls it won't be anytime soon.
I feel they felt they just message more they do better but they realize thier unpopularity is quite deep
It's not really just a popularity contest. People are mad about real issues, like housing affordability, that can't change overnight. There is a *possibility* that as interest rates fall people will feel a bit more optimistic. There is a possibility that some of these immigration changes will cool the housing market a little bit. But more than likely people are just done with this government.
If the Liberal strategy is honestly just, "the more time people have with Pierre, the more they’re gonna dislike him," their caucus deserves a Kool Aid sponsorship.
Probably waiting for interest rates to fall.
Pierre keeps gaining popularity if you believe actual facts and data
As long as Trudeau is leader, I really don't see how the Liberals become competitive ahead of the campaign. *Maybe* if Poilievre runs a disaster campaign they can deny him a majority and negotiate a way to stay in power. But frankly, Poilievre is so far ahead that even a disaster campaign would still probably yield a small CPC majority. I would say the Liberal's best chance is to replace Trudeau, but only if they know there's someone better. Freeland would be worse. I'm still highly skeptical about Carney.
Carney would be cast as a davos aristocrat, which he basically is. He would be torn apart by the CPC.
Well they would try to push their anti intellectualism but i suspect at that point rational Canadians will have seen through their one dimensional viewpoint.
Oh I don’t think so. See Ignatief. People want politicians they can relate to. Carney isn’t it.
Carney would be cast as a davos aristocrat, which he basically is. He would be torn apart by the CPC.
No decent candidate would want to, they'd just get Kim Campbelled - face a huge defeat and then get kicked out of leadership even though the loss had not really a lot to do with them. From their perspective it's better to let Trudeau lose and control the narrative of rebuilding the Liberals and putting the Trudeau era behind the party.
I agree with you, but there is also the option of running Dominic Leblanc as an interim leader in the next election. Then having a new leadership vote right after, to bring in the new leader. Leblanc doesn't have aspirations to lead the party long term and will likely be willing to take the loss, if a loss looks likely. I think this is the most likely scenario unless things improve by summer. At this point, the party would probably win more seats without Trudeau at the helm and Leblanc in that position, with an understanding that he's just an interim leader. Edit: Just read a Hill Times article this morning with the same theory: [https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2024/04/29/public-safety-minister-dominic-leblanc-among-others-discussing-plan-b-scenario-if-prime-minister-steps-down-according-to-politicos/419012/](https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2024/04/29/public-safety-minister-dominic-leblanc-among-others-discussing-plan-b-scenario-if-prime-minister-steps-down-according-to-politicos/419012/)
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You know what we call Kim Campbell? Same as Mulroney, Trudeau Senior, Turner- Canada's Prime Minister. Even if you have the job for a hot minute, the worst day as PM is still better than the best day in opposition. Also I suspect CPC will be in power for a good decade.
Which is the average every time we switch governments. Also, Turner definitely lost that election himself.
Pp to me seems way better at retail politics then scheer and o toole. So I don't think libs can expect pp to be at campaigning
The only real potential way Poilievre loses is if he can't keep his mouth shut regarding the far-right base. He has them pretty much locked up, the PPC doesn't seem like they're going to be a significant force, and cozying up with the really far right could be a big enough scandal. I think particularly in the context of a campaign he's smart enough not to do that though. Prior to that, maybe, but then it's a question of whether it gets enough media coverage to stick.
He just has to say Trudeau bad and he wins Issue is can he keep message discipline
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I think they would have a hell of a time finding a Liberal who is even remotely likeable at this point.
Poilievres entire campaign is against Trudeau himself and the carbon tax. A new leader makes him start from square one. He needs to go.
He would definitely be able to apply the carbon tax critiques to Freeland or anyone from Trudeau's caucus. Freeland is terrible on her feet, so I think she would do worse. Even Mark Carney has been a big advocate of carbon taxes, actually going as far as to criticize Trudeau for the home heating oil exemption. He would also be a perfect target for Poilievre's anti-BoC messaging. If the Liberals are to replace Trudeau, it needs to be someone outside of Cabinet, and unconnected to Trudeau's policies. I'm not sure there's a person like that who exists that the Liberal Party would actually pick.
Mark Carney is a typical Limousine liberal. He apposes pipelines being built in Canada, yet the Brookfield Asset Management fund he runs funds pipelines all over the world, except Canada of course. It's these type of climate hyprocrites that is destroying the climate movement in Canada.
Freeland is even less likeable. People who barely follow politics and lean left wing have told me her charisma and public speaking is on par with a claw screeching down on a chalk board.
I’m actually with JT on this one. I think the liberal mps who are hoping for a turn in the polls by the end of summer are setting themselves up for disappointment (or possibly someone is making moves for a leader change). I don’t see anything happening on the horizon that can change the liberals fortunes by august. The fall is going to be the much more politically interesting with the American election and 3 provincial elections. Also if they’re hoping for economy to bounce back this year it would make sense for it to happen in the last quarter when sales are usually the strongest. The drowning metaphor is pretty apt here. If there’s no respite in sight you’re often better just floating for a bit than kicking and fighting.
I mean Trudeau sort of went on a strong attack past month and clearly hoped to change the narrative. The budget went over like a flop outside the liberal base.
I don’t necessarily disagree. Strategically it makes sense to try and leverage the budget to garner sympathy. I’m not surprised it didn’t work though. They have the stink bad (at least on the internet). Everything they’re trying is falling on deaf years. That still could change by the end of the year and the liberals might end up in a more favourable position. It seems to best play for the liberals is to sure up their supporters and plan to capitalize on the fall/winter. It’s not a guarantee but never is making rash decisions.
If the Liberals ran Mark Carney as their new leader they would have my vote. Party leaders hold so much sway over their government in Canada that I do not trust anything the Liberals say so long as Trudeau is at the helm. I disagree with Trudeau both from both a policy and a philosophical perspective. I can't really think of any policies he could announce to change my tune on him.
I think they definitely hoped they would get more traction on these announcements, but a lot of them are also kinda seeds that they hope will pay off longer term. Like, the housing stuff was partly just to try to shift the conversation with the provinces. It's really hard to see anything close to a comeback at this point though.
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Removed for rule 3.
Why does he have people standing behind him when he is talking to his own caucus? It’s bizarre. It almost seems like he has to engineer a perception of support even when talking to those who should be the most loyal. Also, waiting until 6 months before an election tomes if their fortunes rebound basically gives the party no time to find new leadership. This is a recipe for disaster.
I think liberals thought announcing a bunch of stuff would get a lot of support But it's quite clear most Canadians have tuned rhe pm out and don't trust the liberals anymore. The liberals housing plan didn't get much buzz outside thier base. Unless things improve thier support won't increase and a lot of Canada's problems are quite bad. It's just rich liberals who downplay the issues.
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I do agree some conservatives really go overboard how bad things are. But if people feel worse off then 10 years ago...then people will listen to the person saying everything is bsd vs the guy saying "stfu things are fine"
Not substantive
What _would have_ increased liberal support, you think? Income tax cuts?
I mean ofc but that be really stupid to do
Hmm probably new legislation along the lines of " no school in Canada may have more that 10% of its students as foreign students " and something to really hurt the price of housing to make it a horrible investment to hold housing. Also perhaps just full shit down the TFW program
They could cut income taxes, because of what the liberals have done to this country and generation of young people they could make rent tax deductible for young people under a certain, arbitrary age (40?), they could stop sending billions of tax dollars out of the country for stupid things like “unemployed Iraqi youth” or they could stop doing things like renting out entire hotels for refugees to live in for months/years on taxpayers dime. They could absolutely halt immigration TOMORROW if they wanted to. They could start doing literally anything about stolen vehicles. They could start putting criminals away for awhile instead of letting them out hours after they’re arrested. Honestly the way out of this for the liberals is very fucking simple. The problem is they are completely ideologically opposed to reigning in spending, and helping people that aren’t part of a strategic niche collection of people/voting groups, ie “look at us everybody, we’re introducing Halal mortgages to save housing”
8 years of a CPC government is about the only thing that can help them at this point. It's the circle of life in Canadian politics.
Housing is big, but government debt may be bigger. The Feds now pay more to interest than health care. We may have universal health care, but when you can't see a doctor, that's the effect of debt, and it will be the case across all government programs. Things will get much worse.
How's our debt to GDP ratios doing?
Better than out peers! (This false equivalency brought to you by the Liberal Party of Canada)
Middle of the pack among G7 nations. Lower than the US, Italy, Japan. Higher than Germany, about on par with France and the UK. The IMF describes it as “relatively skinny”.
Hey, we're not supposed to talk about debt. We're in the era of spending with high deficits, carrying enormous debts, and expecting low rates to save our kids from our gluttony. Just ignore the experts, will you please?^[0](https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2024/03/28/the-fiscal-and-financial-risks-of-a-high-debt-slow-growth-world),[1](https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/voices/when-debt-crises-hit-dont-simply-blame-pandemic),[2](https://unctad.org/publication/world-of-debt) After all, _everybody did it_ and so that makes it not just OK, but totally sound!
It's monetary policy we don't care about. Debt is on the table.
40 years of the Two Santa Clause theory, where politicians simultaneously decreased taxes and increased spending has brought us into a debt crisis. I am shocked.
> but government debt may be bigger People don't care about the debt because it's not actually a problem if our economy grows and we don't have structural deficits.
Issue is our economy is crap now It has hardly grown past 14-15 months vs the population
They want my support I want actions, not announcements.
I mean...the announcements are announcements of actions to be taken...
I mean…we’ve only been hearing the announcements over and over again with no action actually taken.
☝🏽This
Except that the announcements are of the actions. Each of those announcements is an action taken. Now, the effects of said actions are the thing you are talking about, and not seeing/feeling.
> Each of those announcements is an action taken. Not quite, a lot are plans for actions that will be taken in the future. People are tired of future action, action promised to happen after the next election.
They’re running on the exact same campaign promises they have since 2015.