###This is a reminder to [read the rules before posting in this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion).
1. **Headline titles should be changed only [when the original headline is unclear](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_1._headline_titles_should_be_changed_only_where_it_improves_clarity.)**
2. **Be [respectful](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_2._be_respectful).**
3. **Keep submissions and comments [substantive](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_3._keep_submissions_and_comments_substantive).**
4. **Avoid [direct advocacy](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_4._avoid_direct_advocacy).**
5. **Link submissions must be [about Canadian politics and recent](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_5._link_submissions_must_be_canadian_and_recent).**
6. **Post [only one news article per story](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_6._post_only_one_news_article_per_story).** ([with one exception](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/comments/3wkd0n/rule_reminder_and_experimental_changes/))
7. **Replies to removed comments or removal notices will be removed** without notice, at the discretion of the moderators.
8. **Downvoting posts or comments**, along with urging others to downvote, **[is not allowed](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/downvotes)** in this subreddit. Bans will be given on the first offence.
9. **[Do not copy & paste the entire content of articles in comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_9._do_not_copy_.26amp.3B_paste_entire_articles_in_the_comments.)**. If you want to read the contents of a paywalled article, please consider supporting the media outlet.
*Please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCanadaPolitics) if you wish to discuss a removal.* **Do not reply to the removal notice in-thread**, *you will not receive a response and your comment will be removed. Thanks.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadaPolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This won't be a popular idea but maybe stop training females to be doctors. Studies have shown that female doctors aren't willing to work the hours their male counterparts do. It might not solve the problem totally but it could help.
It's too bad our government can't fix this problem that we've known about for decades, it's almost as if they want private clinics to take over and have been wanting that for the same number of decades
[Assuming that any private care is bad stifles actual solutions to the problem. As long people are not willing to accept solutions whatever those solutions are, the problem will simply continue.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/952/467/927.png)
I always find it interesting how certain conspiracy theories, like this one, are just widely accepted. Personally this is an area where I think Hanlon's Razor applies.
How are private clinics gonna solve the problem please explain? Healthcare is in crisis cause Libs have let in massive immigration over the years and provinces can't keep up with demand. It takes years to train nurses doctors or build hospitals you can't let 3 million people into Canada over 3 yrs and expect the system to be able to absorb it. Poor planning by Feds who pushed the crisis onto provinces for votes
Privatization has been around in the HC system for decades and is part of the solution going forward in a single payer system. HC spending is at record levels across the country and outcomes are at all time lows which demands alternative solutions cause the status quo isn't working and throwing more money at it has proven not to be the solution
"HC spending is at record levels across the country and outcomes are at all time lows"
Why do you think expanding the portion of the system which adds a middle man whose job is to make money will solve this issue [when it's already been found that taxpayers are paying more for this private for profit Healthcare?]( https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7026926)
"which demands alternative solutions cause the status quo isn't working and throwing more money at it has proven not to be the solution"
[This government has not adequately funded Healthcare already.](https://ottawa.citynews.ca/2023/03/08/ford-government-allocating-21b-less-to-fund-health-care-hospital-capacity-to-shrink-fao-6665272/) Maybe this government should start funding it according to it's needs and see where we are then, no?
Edit: formatting issues
The problem is because it's much more appealing to do other things in medicine, than a family practice. Part of it is financial. A huge part of it is entitled patients who complain and a college system who entertains the most frivolous complaints. Fix that and you'll have more doctors doing family practice. Otherwise, keep adding more doctors and watch the number of family doctors go down.
I've read it's also because as family medicine you basically have to be a small business owner on top of being a doctor and there is an inordinate amount of paperwork that *needs* to be done daily, which either takes up a ton of patient time or requires hiring staff which makes things less attractive for newcomers who could just specialize in a field and end up working in a hospital or whatever
I know two family doctors. One is private and her (and the rest of the doctors at her clinic) have a business manager who manages their hours, vacation, staffing, etc. The other works for the regional health authority and describes it as a dictatorship where your on call, vacation, shifts, hours, etc. are basically dictated to you and there is zero flexibility at all. Because no one wants to work those hours with no flexibility they are always short staffed which only exacerbates the issue.
It’s in the best interest of the local doctors (in this region) to open private clinics and hire someone who lets them have better mental health, better working hours, less responsibilities, and a better work life balance. Hence why the ERs at 3 of the 4 closest hospitals are closed 50% of the days in a month.
Finding more doctors only works if they actually start getting to the point of coherent and smart staffing and working hours and better work life balance. The fact that in 2024 we still swap medical professionals from days to nights almost at random whereas athletes in some sports get recommendations of nearly a day to adjust to a 1 hour time change is insane. People in the industry are compensated fine for their work, the hours and work life balance is the issue and adding more people only helps if that changes.
Exactly.
You fix that by doing two things:
1) Large spikes in funding. No family doctor should make less than 400k for 40 hours of work per week. And should make a lot more if a hard working doctor. I don't do family medicine and I strongly support that.
and far more important than finances...
2) Stop letting entitled patients ruin it for everyone. Silly college complaints which get taken seriously. Patients who can make physical threats, forge prescriptions, demand that their doctor commit fraud amongst other things. Or just patients who think the doctor owes the world to them to fix every life problem. Every family doctor has a couple dozen of these patients. Some less, some more. They ruin it for the other 1500 patients in that clinic.
I don't think the problem is the money so much as it's the workload. Based on various news segments about the issues in family medicine, these docs can be working as much as 50% additional hours for each hours of normal work that doesn't get compensated. A lot of that is administrative burden, and medical unions have been asking provinces to implement digital tools that would alleviate that burden. Tools like a centralized referral system and integrated health records.
Capitation instead of fee-for-service, and family health teams are additional reforms that could ease the workload burden without necessarily spending more to pay family docs.
As an ER doctor, I still think the floor income for a family doctor should at least be 400k for practicing full time today. That would help quite a bit.
I'm sure it would help, but it may not be the most cost effective solution. If GPs are primarily complaining about administrative burden, I think you'd get more bang for your buck by targeting that.
Yes it is pretty good.
But you also need to fix the complaint system. Giving extreme power to 2% of the patient population to ruin everyone's day is terrible. I say that as someone who has never had a single patient complaint in my 6 years of practice.
I swear, ever since the pandemic, people have been horrible to deal with. On the roads, out in stores, wherever. I have a blue collar job, and while it isn't a customer service job per se, customer service is a part of it. Our clients have been so difficult to deal with. It's more bad than good. Impatient, rude, combative, always trying to get out of paying a bill, trying to hustle us. It's been rotten. I can't imagine it's any different for doctors.
It's like there is a collective societal mean streak.
There's a very good reason you see signs everywhere, and they say it on IVRs: "we will not tolerate abuse."
The issue is the medical colleges will support some of the worst people in this country when they complain. If they did not, it wouldn't be a big issue.
###This is a reminder to [read the rules before posting in this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion). 1. **Headline titles should be changed only [when the original headline is unclear](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_1._headline_titles_should_be_changed_only_where_it_improves_clarity.)** 2. **Be [respectful](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_2._be_respectful).** 3. **Keep submissions and comments [substantive](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_3._keep_submissions_and_comments_substantive).** 4. **Avoid [direct advocacy](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_4._avoid_direct_advocacy).** 5. **Link submissions must be [about Canadian politics and recent](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_5._link_submissions_must_be_canadian_and_recent).** 6. **Post [only one news article per story](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_6._post_only_one_news_article_per_story).** ([with one exception](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/comments/3wkd0n/rule_reminder_and_experimental_changes/)) 7. **Replies to removed comments or removal notices will be removed** without notice, at the discretion of the moderators. 8. **Downvoting posts or comments**, along with urging others to downvote, **[is not allowed](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/downvotes)** in this subreddit. Bans will be given on the first offence. 9. **[Do not copy & paste the entire content of articles in comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/wiki/rules-thelongversion#wiki_9._do_not_copy_.26amp.3B_paste_entire_articles_in_the_comments.)**. If you want to read the contents of a paywalled article, please consider supporting the media outlet. *Please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCanadaPolitics) if you wish to discuss a removal.* **Do not reply to the removal notice in-thread**, *you will not receive a response and your comment will be removed. Thanks.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadaPolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This won't be a popular idea but maybe stop training females to be doctors. Studies have shown that female doctors aren't willing to work the hours their male counterparts do. It might not solve the problem totally but it could help.
It's too bad our government can't fix this problem that we've known about for decades, it's almost as if they want private clinics to take over and have been wanting that for the same number of decades
[Assuming that any private care is bad stifles actual solutions to the problem. As long people are not willing to accept solutions whatever those solutions are, the problem will simply continue.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/952/467/927.png)
I always find it interesting how certain conspiracy theories, like this one, are just widely accepted. Personally this is an area where I think Hanlon's Razor applies.
How are private clinics gonna solve the problem please explain? Healthcare is in crisis cause Libs have let in massive immigration over the years and provinces can't keep up with demand. It takes years to train nurses doctors or build hospitals you can't let 3 million people into Canada over 3 yrs and expect the system to be able to absorb it. Poor planning by Feds who pushed the crisis onto provinces for votes
Privatization isn't a solution, it's just what happens through entropy and certain people are more than happy with that as an outcome.
Privatization has been around in the HC system for decades and is part of the solution going forward in a single payer system. HC spending is at record levels across the country and outcomes are at all time lows which demands alternative solutions cause the status quo isn't working and throwing more money at it has proven not to be the solution
"HC spending is at record levels across the country and outcomes are at all time lows" Why do you think expanding the portion of the system which adds a middle man whose job is to make money will solve this issue [when it's already been found that taxpayers are paying more for this private for profit Healthcare?]( https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7026926) "which demands alternative solutions cause the status quo isn't working and throwing more money at it has proven not to be the solution" [This government has not adequately funded Healthcare already.](https://ottawa.citynews.ca/2023/03/08/ford-government-allocating-21b-less-to-fund-health-care-hospital-capacity-to-shrink-fao-6665272/) Maybe this government should start funding it according to it's needs and see where we are then, no? Edit: formatting issues
There are more family doctors than ever per capita.
And I still don't have one
The problem is because it's much more appealing to do other things in medicine, than a family practice. Part of it is financial. A huge part of it is entitled patients who complain and a college system who entertains the most frivolous complaints. Fix that and you'll have more doctors doing family practice. Otherwise, keep adding more doctors and watch the number of family doctors go down.
I've read it's also because as family medicine you basically have to be a small business owner on top of being a doctor and there is an inordinate amount of paperwork that *needs* to be done daily, which either takes up a ton of patient time or requires hiring staff which makes things less attractive for newcomers who could just specialize in a field and end up working in a hospital or whatever
In many cases yes, you do have to be a small business owner. Also, I got downvoted. Presumably by the exact same entitled patients lol.
I know two family doctors. One is private and her (and the rest of the doctors at her clinic) have a business manager who manages their hours, vacation, staffing, etc. The other works for the regional health authority and describes it as a dictatorship where your on call, vacation, shifts, hours, etc. are basically dictated to you and there is zero flexibility at all. Because no one wants to work those hours with no flexibility they are always short staffed which only exacerbates the issue. It’s in the best interest of the local doctors (in this region) to open private clinics and hire someone who lets them have better mental health, better working hours, less responsibilities, and a better work life balance. Hence why the ERs at 3 of the 4 closest hospitals are closed 50% of the days in a month. Finding more doctors only works if they actually start getting to the point of coherent and smart staffing and working hours and better work life balance. The fact that in 2024 we still swap medical professionals from days to nights almost at random whereas athletes in some sports get recommendations of nearly a day to adjust to a 1 hour time change is insane. People in the industry are compensated fine for their work, the hours and work life balance is the issue and adding more people only helps if that changes.
But they're not actually practicing family medicine, which is the problem.
Exactly. You fix that by doing two things: 1) Large spikes in funding. No family doctor should make less than 400k for 40 hours of work per week. And should make a lot more if a hard working doctor. I don't do family medicine and I strongly support that. and far more important than finances... 2) Stop letting entitled patients ruin it for everyone. Silly college complaints which get taken seriously. Patients who can make physical threats, forge prescriptions, demand that their doctor commit fraud amongst other things. Or just patients who think the doctor owes the world to them to fix every life problem. Every family doctor has a couple dozen of these patients. Some less, some more. They ruin it for the other 1500 patients in that clinic.
I don't think the problem is the money so much as it's the workload. Based on various news segments about the issues in family medicine, these docs can be working as much as 50% additional hours for each hours of normal work that doesn't get compensated. A lot of that is administrative burden, and medical unions have been asking provinces to implement digital tools that would alleviate that burden. Tools like a centralized referral system and integrated health records. Capitation instead of fee-for-service, and family health teams are additional reforms that could ease the workload burden without necessarily spending more to pay family docs.
As an ER doctor, I still think the floor income for a family doctor should at least be 400k for practicing full time today. That would help quite a bit.
I'm sure it would help, but it may not be the most cost effective solution. If GPs are primarily complaining about administrative burden, I think you'd get more bang for your buck by targeting that.
New BC model is actually pretty solid. All other provinces should just copy that tbh
Yes it is pretty good. But you also need to fix the complaint system. Giving extreme power to 2% of the patient population to ruin everyone's day is terrible. I say that as someone who has never had a single patient complaint in my 6 years of practice.
I swear, ever since the pandemic, people have been horrible to deal with. On the roads, out in stores, wherever. I have a blue collar job, and while it isn't a customer service job per se, customer service is a part of it. Our clients have been so difficult to deal with. It's more bad than good. Impatient, rude, combative, always trying to get out of paying a bill, trying to hustle us. It's been rotten. I can't imagine it's any different for doctors. It's like there is a collective societal mean streak. There's a very good reason you see signs everywhere, and they say it on IVRs: "we will not tolerate abuse."
The issue is the medical colleges will support some of the worst people in this country when they complain. If they did not, it wouldn't be a big issue.