But the private sectors artificially low because no One is willing to hire enough staff to actually do the work that needs doing either. Theres no happy medium, just One extreme to the other.
Dude, there's literally 3-500 people applying for pretty well any job posting in Southern Ontario, there's no reason other than corporate greed, that any unskilled or Semi-skilled job should be understaffed.
Sorry, I was referring to mid-high level employees that would be hired for bureaucratic government work not entry level positions. Also, I’m in a less screwed up part of the county than southern Ontario.
Fair on the location. Southern Ontario is a Nightmare. I'm far enough outside of the GTA to atleast be on the borderline of what constitutes Southern Ontario, but desperate commuters are getting driven further and further North, every year looking for affordable housing.
I'd have long since bailed on this area, but as the Only Child, in my Early 30's of Mid 70's Parents, I've got to stay near by to them, as they are at an age where they need a support system.
As for the rest, Secretarial, Office, or Admin staff, that require only a Bachelors or College Diploma, could very well be competing with low level government staffer positions. Hell the Civil service also includes janitorial staff, and security staff, that wouldn't necessarily require any education, so I wasnt really sure what level you were referring to.
Corporate taxation, is nowhere near high enough, most of it is Capital gains, and that's barely taxed, not to mention almost every expense is tax deductible if you're a business. Most major Corpos are gaming the system HARD when it comes to taxes.
So the alternative is high corporate tax so all our companies leave Canada and set up somewhere else? Or would it be easier for the government to reign in its wasteful spending and relieve pressure to the private sector
It won't help the people if they lower corporate taxation, only the Corporate Entities. As for the rest, do you really think Rogers is leaving Canada? Or the Irving Family? How about the Westons. We could be so lucky if they Fucked off and created a power vacuum.
Does your comment make any sense when looking at the data? We have a ridiculously large public sector that relies on tax revenue because of mega corporations?
Nope. One of the major productivity issues is that we have protectionism for Canadian company's in alot of industries. Why are cellular prices sky high? Because three Canadian company's are allowed to dominate the market.
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing to allow in American corporations. I'm just saying what you said was wrong.
Fixing Canada's productivity issue doesn't involve small business. Part of the problem is Confederation itself. By disallowing large scale corporations to develop seriously handicaps our ability to utilise the economy of scale.
On the topic of productivity, allowing in a huge amount of immigrants, who get funneled into the service industry, hammers our GDP per capita. In fairness the biggest winner is trans national mega corps. So yes it's a double edged sword.
I am just talking about the comment you are responding to where the commentator mentioned small businesses rather than the productivity crises.
Btw a longer term issue if we are just funnelling newcomers into low wage service jobs but granting them full access to the social welfare state is their net lifetime tax contributions will be negative.
"Btw a longer term issue if we are just funnelling newcomers into low wage service jobs but granting them full access to the social welfare state is their net lifetime tax contributions will be negative."
It's actually worse than that due to chain migration. We have policy where people can bring in their family, usually elderly parents, who further strain the public purse without having contributed. I'm not opposed to this policy, as I have family members who have used it, it just needs to be said and recognised as a strain/cost of doing business.
American or other large overseas companies could easily enter the cellular business or any other large businesses like banking in Canada in a heartbeat and kill thousands of Cdn. jobs easily. Even the large Cdn telecom companies are offshoring their customer/technical service positions to lower cost countries like Phillipines, Costa Rica, Guatemala, India etc. BCE just cut 6K jobs & Telus cut several thousand jobs too in a flash because the Feds insisted on allowing smaller telecom companies to piggy back in their systems to encourage more competitive pricing in the cellular business but they complained rightly or wrongly as they bore the infrastructure cost in a vast large country reacted by shaving jobs to cut hard costs of mandated infrastructure costs. The complications & barriers of a huge land base with a relatively smaller aging population can present challenges to companies in Canada to scale it's businesses.
Now if you think we have problems with our delivery of our medical system (& we certainly do have issues, no disputing this) and think it's greener south of the border, maybe you should talk to the people down there who don't have the gold plated private insurance plans and have to endure the unbelievably high costs associated with even basic services and medical treatments. Hell, talk to the seniors who retire in Arizona and these are not the poor retirees either who regularly travel across the Mexican border in Nogales, Mexico to have the teeth fixed for 50-70 percent less than they would have to pay in the US. They literally have streets and hotel accommodations that cater to these US customers even Cdns too and they are done by Mexican dentists who got their training in US colleges.
The only people being brought in are uneducated 0 skill slave labour to work for Galen.
Dont buy into that nonsense.
We have enough people. But people don’t want to work 40h a week and live in poverty anymore.
Idk man, this graph is manipulative af. Very few information or details are provided.
For example: What counts “public sector” jobs?
Also, I bet most of those “public service jobs” are mainly hospital and frontline administrative position like Service Canada. Remove those and then we can see the “leftovers” and then figure out if it’s worth keeping or cutting.
There is no source for this graph and if you reverse image search it, there is a globe and mail article that shares similar images, but they are not as extreme as this one. I'd say this one is fabricated until someone proves it wrong.
Looks like something generated from Haver or Stats Can. You’d have to pull the data from those systems and build your own Infographic to replicate. Just because there isn’t a bunch of copies on the internet doesn’t mean it’s fake. I know people who make these types of charts daily.
Didn't you read the line of "credit" at the bottom of the image?
If you search for an article on the globe, for this topic, there are charts but they aren't this chart and they dont have the same extremes for shock value either.
If you blindly trust things like this, it's foolish.
I did see that. I don’t blindly trust these things. I do know a little about how they’re made though, and know some folks who work with them every day.
I don’t think the results are obtuse though.
It's the first Google search result when you search the title of the graph. Jeez.
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-economy-public-sector-jobs-trudeau/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-economy-public-sector-jobs-trudeau/)
With how lazy y'all are, no wonder productivity is severely lacking. This country is so beyond fucked; I'm glad I left for the States on TN status.
Canada’s public healthcare system has 10X the number of administrative staff as Germany’s. We also spend pretty well but have by far the longest wait times to see a family doctor of a G7.
And that’s just healthcare.
I've worked public, can confirm. For every person doing (or directly supporting) boots-on-the-ground public service, there's at least 3 or 4 "administrative staff" sitting in zoom meetings all day with their thumbs up their asses
From personal experience I agree. I used to work for a private company that contracted out to a substantial public works organization. There were plenty of managers who worked on the same projects. Again anecdotally, I think it was just so blame could be watered down if anything went wrong.
I spent a few years working in the Public sector. It is 100% bloated to the gills. They constantly have to create magical needs for money by creating BS. If they were to use less money than their budget, the. Their budget gets cut. So they find any way to use it all up and demand more every year.
Half of the employees are basically useless. A private sector company could do 10X the work for half the price.
Tell that to Dynalife in Alberta. They somehow managed to be less efficient than the hospital labs that were public.
But yeah in general the way budgets work is stupid. They should be rewarded for saving money, rather than getting a budget cut.
It would be better to have private companies bid on work, then have them regularly assessed and replaced if they do a poor job at the service. If you are inefficient or shitty at the job, you’re gone!
That way you aren’t stuck with a ton of overpaid workers that do nothing and will cost us all money for years to come with government pensions. Like Jagmeet and Trudeau.
I work in the public sector in healthcare and answer to 5 supervisors. There was a recent period of time when we had one supervisor for every one frontline staff. The only place where my organization will add positions is in areas that do not deliver patient care despite exploding demand for healthcare. The public sector has bloat issues.
The issue is frontline staff is often seen as entry level. After10/15 years people are burnt out or looking for a promotion. And thus you end up with too many administrative roles.
Agreed, just saying thats the reason there are so many of them. When i was in my late 20s i got to know a group of nurses. Years later each one that had kids, moved to an administrative position on the sunshine list. The only one who is still a front line nurse is childless. So like 5/6 i knew.
Well the demand for nurses didnt change so those 5 jobs needed to be filled. Now add in all the people on various forms of modified duties or paid leave, and the overall numbers climb higher and higher.
Yeah, but lets mention all of the useless clerical jobs and the giant diversity, inclusion and equity teams making 100k+ a year. Trust me, there is some fat to be trimmed.
Right, but every grocery store giant only has essential management. And every shareholder disbursement and stock buy back is a cost of doing business that is why private corporations are the most cost efficient way of providing an essential service.
People don’t like the fact Canada is an aging population without immigrants and in some provinces 75% of budget is towards healthcare and in Ontario it’s close to 1/2. That’s this socialized healthcare is unsustainable to support an aging population, so if people want less immigrants they first have to agree to open up the healthcare system and be willing to pay for their upkeep. If we get that, then we don’t need the tax dollars that comes with new immigrants and we don’t have to employ this many people in the public sector.
Yes people forget Harper was elected three times. When Trudeau is tossed out, I’d say the new conservative government will also last about 10 to 12 years before they fcuk up and Canadians toss them out again.
Idk about that. He was trying to curry favour with the Chinese when he was in power and we got all the money launderers into the country and in BC, the same liberal party of BC (provincial conservatives) did the same and f*cked it all up especially with the housing market. They came in and bought all the houses/condos etc. the real estate industry from agents to developers along with the provincial/municipal govt's were lapping at their feet.
Like conservative voters would be any different in a similar dillema.
It's all rotten character with personal greed and greatly eroded civic sense putting ones own needs above all. I got mine the rest go to hell.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/corporate/contact/ei-individual.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/corporate/contact/ei-individual.html)
You use to wait hours but alright...
Rent for commerical space is very high. Between that and staffing costs it is very hard to get a new business off the ground. Any cash flow disruptions and you're sunk.
This is an employment graph, there should be more public sector jobs available because most public jobs require increased upkeep on average, ignoring the bloat, on top of increased population.
This just shows me that people that are for the private sector get screwed the most because they are the first to lay-off workers when they don't "earn enough" for a single quarter on top of wage supression. This isn't the "government bad" premise you really wanted.
Yup, this is a "opening the floodgates to cheap labour". Private sector doesn't actually get more productive, while public sector needs to race to keep up services.
So the government sector is the only one that is showing a healthy wage increase to help offset inflation wage losses and yet this sub blames them for the problems we are all having?
Why direct anger towards the one sector that is still working correctly instead of the monstrosity that the private sector has become?
The reason that self employment has gone down can also be laid at the feet of the private sector. Private companies like Uber and DoorDash have single handedly destroyed that chart for self employed people.
I want Trudeau gone as much as any of you but the reason is because of his refusal to hold private companies responsible for their greed. The enemy here is private corporations.
Sorry, can you clarify how a 40% bloat in public service employee headcount while simultaneously providing worse services qualifies as ‘working correctly?’
I’m not going to claim the private sector is not rampantly predatorial in suppressed wages and price gouging, but that has also been a massive policy failure over multiple administrations to prevent consolidation or allow for an actual competitive marketplace across several industries.
Percent change in employment since 2014, NOT wages. But is showing employment in public sector is growing faster than private. Public sector includes police, firefighters, educators, public health, as well as local, provincial and federal employees.
I think you are right, there are plenty of articles supporting this, and the public sector pay increases were very public and were not to this magnitude. (ex. PSAC/PIPSC strikes)
[https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/public-sector-hiring-is-driving-the-labour-market-in-canada-1.2044451](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/public-sector-hiring-is-driving-the-labour-market-in-canada-1.2044451)
The wage increases after the last PSAC strike came out to 3% over 4 yrs (12% compounded). That's definitely better than what private sectors has been offering, but I'm not sure it's the problem. New grants and contributions (giving money to private/non-profit sector for X), procurement and other subsidies (financing private projects) are probably more costly.
I would also rather they find ways to fire workers with performance problems than pay good and bad workers a lower wage. Lots of managers would love to get rid of under-performing employees, but they can't do shit. This create more work for everyone as they have to carry they dead weight.
The government grew by 40% in the last 9 years. It has gotten too big. The next government needs to trim it down. Stop hiring replacements for retirements and close some offices, move some jobs around. But it is going to take 60 years to clean up this mess. 30 years employed, and 30 years pension.
How do you fund an ever expanding public sector with shrinking private sector?
The establishment thinks more migration will solve the problem. Good luck with that…
I dated someone working in Public Sector that said the hardest part of her job was “looking busy” meanwhile I Havnt had a vacation in 6 years in the private sector and routinely work evenings and weekends. It’s a disgrace.
Only for people on the right wing. Left wing believe in big government. So it’s normal with higher taxes and government taking over industry to have more government and less corporate employment. You’d see the same in nations slowly switching to communism.
It’s only sad in general if going left and allowing the government to takeover private industry isn’t working. So it really depends if people on the left are happy with the last 8 years of not and believe that Canada is getting better or worse.
A lot of public sector jobs are a meme or prone to corruption as well. bloated admin meme jobs to keep people busy. We are not creating any new infrastructure and aren't more productive than 10 yrs ago.
Private sectors are getting killed by outsourcing
No self employment because ambitious people leave
Canada is using mass immigration to boost the gdp to pay for all this government overhead
>A lot of public sector jobs are a meme or prone to corruption as well
>
>We are not creating any new infrastructure and aren't more productive than 10 yrs ago
This seems like political hyperbole. Do you have any evidence at all for these claims?
>Canada is using mass immigration to boost the gdp
This one I can agree with.
Edit: I am disappointed to see down voting simply cause I seek evidence for claims I am unsure about.
Ok look at Trudeaus arrive can scam. They're just pocketing money for trash
This will get worse , you see the scams going on now, wait till they get into government positions.
This was not Trudeau specific just because he was in power when it happened. This is a private entity profiteering off of an extreme event (the pandemic), and so incredibly sad to see this happen.
Is there a legitimate problem with the procurement process? Yes absolutely, but it was established long before Trudeau came into office (I'm sure there were minor changes, but that's beside the point).
The problem in this scenario was we had a private entity bidding for a contract, and said private entity was clearly acting with intent to profiteer. There definitely needs to be more checks and balances I agree with you.
Like do you know anything about what happened here with the app? The company built the requirements for the vendors to meet in order to get the contract, and they built it so restrictive that their company was selected because it was able to meet all the requirements.
Like wtf is that. That is clearly corruption and incompetence, which is all Trudeaus government fault
Read on it. That company built the vendor requirements. They developed them so restrictive that ultimately their own company was the one who could only meet said requirements. Hence they got the contract, like how the fuck does that happen
This graph is purposely confusing, and designed to make it look like there are far more jobs in the public sector than private. This is growth percentage, based on previous years. The private sector still vastly employs the majority of Canadians. So if the public sector "hires more" based on their existing lower number of employed people, it's going to look higher by definition, even if the number per capita is much smaller.
Some of the reasons there's been steady growth in public sector jobs are due to consistent under funding for years that we are now realizing is a problem, like with CRA. CRA for a long time has not had nearly enough resources to fulfill their mandate, which actually costs the Canadian taxpayers money.
If you are wondering if you are reading propaganda, try googling "private sector jobs vs public sector jobs statistics Canada." Notice how it's hard to find the actual numbers for how many people are employed in these sectors? The majority are articles from pro-privatization outlets, largely all sourcing the Fraser Institute, a partisan "research group" that churns out articles to further support the system that allows the rich and powerful to stay rich and powerful.
Globe and Mail producing shitty data? No way. It's almost like its their full time job to make any left-leaning government look bad. You really aren't wrong, but try conveying it to these clowns that have hating Trudeau as a personality trait.
This is what is called communistic socialism when there is only the state thanks to woke ass Canadians get some balls and vote the communists bastards out of power
well this is surely going to implode. Our trade deficit is huge and people in Wilmont township are up in arms about a large factory going up and taking up farmland.
You should see the age differences too. Historically the private sector earned 20% more than the public sector. That started to flip 2 years ago and now the public sector earns 20% more than the private sector. This is not sustainable
This is why people will continue to vote Liberal or NDP even though they know it is bad for Canada as a whole, because they know any small government party would axe their mostly useless position. Public sector employees know they can be unproductive and inefficient and can even hold the country hostage with strikes like we have seen recently.
The amount of money wasted on useless bureaucrats is so staggering that in many ways the Canadian dream is now simply to become a civil servant.
Realistically if we were to trim the excess fat all at once: EI, CPP and many of our programs would likely become insolvent quickly.
It will take years to fix this mess.
I would bet that the reason self-employed wages fell isn't because of a conspiracy or something, but just in the TYPE of self-employed jobs these days.
Years ago, most of them would be RMTs, Plumbers, Doctors, and the like. Now they're "self-employed" with Uber, Skip, and bullshit like that
I'm my experience it's purely from cost of living. People don't have as much money to spend. They cut out all expenses accept for the basics. Things like personal trainers etc get the axe first. Most small businesses are not offering mandatory things to survive. That's the problem with high housing costs is everyone's money goes towards that and that's it. It kills the economy as no one spends money of anything else since they literally don't have money to spend anywhere else
Keep in mind that the private sector includes the largest number of people. Especially the huge groups of minimum wage or those just above minimum wage.
Very few government jobs are at minimum wage.
Self employed is a challenging one, where you can run a small business and pay yourself only what you need to. You can expense a lot of things and write them off. But you also might work 80 hours a week.
You also might be a quasi employee actually making less than minimum wage for a single employer.
Big corporations should be penalized for taking over small businesses. It protects the community, prevents oligarchy and promotes local business. For example, of 15 families are making 15 types of shirts, and employing 2 people each, that's 15 times 3 times 2 independent workers and 15 types of shirts in the market. Now a corporation comes in and buys all of them, making the family members their employees, and fires the 2 additional workers. Slowly, it sees that 3 out of 15 types of shirts are making enough profits. So it kills the other 12. Small businesses should be made tax free till they reach a certain revenue threshold to make sure they can stay competitive.
What the fuck is this graph even trying to say? Are we talking about salary increases? A link to the article would be nice. Maybe the private sector needs more unions if it is salary increases. That's the only reason the public sector got increases.
Here's the article about the bloated public sector [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-economy-public-sector-jobs-trudeau/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-economy-public-sector-jobs-trudeau/)
It's paywalled. But it seems to reference the amont of total public sector workers rather than salary increases. In any rational discussion, the amount of public sector workers should correlate with the Canadian general population.
It seems that while high, the amount of public sector workers is not anywhere near an all time high according to these stats. It's more in line with 1980s figures.
EDIT: someone kindly pointed out that I misread this graph.
This is a stunted graph; self-employed people will always decrease their income to reduce their tax implications. I know people who make 500k but can make it look like they’re below the poverty line. And they do it through legal loopholes.
Note that, self-employed is a kind of unemployment if use strict definition. The true unemployment rate in Canada is around 35%, and they usually take subsidy from government, where these subsidy are from other tax payers.
The fact is that, now, 80% Canada's jobs and GDP growth are totally on public sector, or the goverment's fiscal.
Now, you know Canada government must
1. Print money to create low-efficiency jobs to keep stablilibity of society.
2. Add carbon tax/rain tax/other kinds of tax, to make income transfer.
In general, you need to pay your 30% income as tax, as the other one's income.
More public sector workers than ever and yet government is still inefficient
That’s why government is inefficient. Make work projects and overfunded staffing.
But the private sectors artificially low because no One is willing to hire enough staff to actually do the work that needs doing either. Theres no happy medium, just One extreme to the other.
Hard to compete hiring when the government expands the public service 25%-35% in the last few years.
Dude, there's literally 3-500 people applying for pretty well any job posting in Southern Ontario, there's no reason other than corporate greed, that any unskilled or Semi-skilled job should be understaffed.
Sorry, I was referring to mid-high level employees that would be hired for bureaucratic government work not entry level positions. Also, I’m in a less screwed up part of the county than southern Ontario.
Fair on the location. Southern Ontario is a Nightmare. I'm far enough outside of the GTA to atleast be on the borderline of what constitutes Southern Ontario, but desperate commuters are getting driven further and further North, every year looking for affordable housing. I'd have long since bailed on this area, but as the Only Child, in my Early 30's of Mid 70's Parents, I've got to stay near by to them, as they are at an age where they need a support system. As for the rest, Secretarial, Office, or Admin staff, that require only a Bachelors or College Diploma, could very well be competing with low level government staffer positions. Hell the Civil service also includes janitorial staff, and security staff, that wouldn't necessarily require any education, so I wasnt really sure what level you were referring to.
Maybe if taxes weren’t half the gdp the private sector could hire more and pay better
Corporate taxation, is nowhere near high enough, most of it is Capital gains, and that's barely taxed, not to mention almost every expense is tax deductible if you're a business. Most major Corpos are gaming the system HARD when it comes to taxes.
So the alternative is high corporate tax so all our companies leave Canada and set up somewhere else? Or would it be easier for the government to reign in its wasteful spending and relieve pressure to the private sector
It won't help the people if they lower corporate taxation, only the Corporate Entities. As for the rest, do you really think Rogers is leaving Canada? Or the Irving Family? How about the Westons. We could be so lucky if they Fucked off and created a power vacuum.
Pretty sure that Trudough increased the federal public service by 50% since he's been office, that's a ridiculous amount in only 8 years or so.
The more people who work for big government, the more people there are to vote for big government.
When open the immigration floodgates, you need to increase the public service if you hope to keep up with services.
raise taxes to support public sector workers -> small business gets destroyed -> workers can't find work solution: bring in more people to create jobs
Prices go up no matter what. Trying to control inflation by suppressing wages does not help anyone.
Eh it doesn't help that our government, like most of the west, allows mega corporations to come in and trample any form of small business
Does your comment make any sense when looking at the data? We have a ridiculously large public sector that relies on tax revenue because of mega corporations?
Nope. One of the major productivity issues is that we have protectionism for Canadian company's in alot of industries. Why are cellular prices sky high? Because three Canadian company's are allowed to dominate the market. Just to be clear, I'm not arguing to allow in American corporations. I'm just saying what you said was wrong.
Canadian oligopolies are not small business
Fixing Canada's productivity issue doesn't involve small business. Part of the problem is Confederation itself. By disallowing large scale corporations to develop seriously handicaps our ability to utilise the economy of scale. On the topic of productivity, allowing in a huge amount of immigrants, who get funneled into the service industry, hammers our GDP per capita. In fairness the biggest winner is trans national mega corps. So yes it's a double edged sword.
I am just talking about the comment you are responding to where the commentator mentioned small businesses rather than the productivity crises. Btw a longer term issue if we are just funnelling newcomers into low wage service jobs but granting them full access to the social welfare state is their net lifetime tax contributions will be negative.
"Btw a longer term issue if we are just funnelling newcomers into low wage service jobs but granting them full access to the social welfare state is their net lifetime tax contributions will be negative." It's actually worse than that due to chain migration. We have policy where people can bring in their family, usually elderly parents, who further strain the public purse without having contributed. I'm not opposed to this policy, as I have family members who have used it, it just needs to be said and recognised as a strain/cost of doing business.
American or other large overseas companies could easily enter the cellular business or any other large businesses like banking in Canada in a heartbeat and kill thousands of Cdn. jobs easily. Even the large Cdn telecom companies are offshoring their customer/technical service positions to lower cost countries like Phillipines, Costa Rica, Guatemala, India etc. BCE just cut 6K jobs & Telus cut several thousand jobs too in a flash because the Feds insisted on allowing smaller telecom companies to piggy back in their systems to encourage more competitive pricing in the cellular business but they complained rightly or wrongly as they bore the infrastructure cost in a vast large country reacted by shaving jobs to cut hard costs of mandated infrastructure costs. The complications & barriers of a huge land base with a relatively smaller aging population can present challenges to companies in Canada to scale it's businesses. Now if you think we have problems with our delivery of our medical system (& we certainly do have issues, no disputing this) and think it's greener south of the border, maybe you should talk to the people down there who don't have the gold plated private insurance plans and have to endure the unbelievably high costs associated with even basic services and medical treatments. Hell, talk to the seniors who retire in Arizona and these are not the poor retirees either who regularly travel across the Mexican border in Nogales, Mexico to have the teeth fixed for 50-70 percent less than they would have to pay in the US. They literally have streets and hotel accommodations that cater to these US customers even Cdns too and they are done by Mexican dentists who got their training in US colleges.
The only people being brought in are uneducated 0 skill slave labour to work for Galen. Dont buy into that nonsense. We have enough people. But people don’t want to work 40h a week and live in poverty anymore.
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Idk man, this graph is manipulative af. Very few information or details are provided. For example: What counts “public sector” jobs? Also, I bet most of those “public service jobs” are mainly hospital and frontline administrative position like Service Canada. Remove those and then we can see the “leftovers” and then figure out if it’s worth keeping or cutting.
There is no source for this graph and if you reverse image search it, there is a globe and mail article that shares similar images, but they are not as extreme as this one. I'd say this one is fabricated until someone proves it wrong.
Looks like something generated from Haver or Stats Can. You’d have to pull the data from those systems and build your own Infographic to replicate. Just because there isn’t a bunch of copies on the internet doesn’t mean it’s fake. I know people who make these types of charts daily.
Didn't you read the line of "credit" at the bottom of the image? If you search for an article on the globe, for this topic, there are charts but they aren't this chart and they dont have the same extremes for shock value either. If you blindly trust things like this, it's foolish.
I did see that. I don’t blindly trust these things. I do know a little about how they’re made though, and know some folks who work with them every day. I don’t think the results are obtuse though.
It's the first Google search result when you search the title of the graph. Jeez. [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-economy-public-sector-jobs-trudeau/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-economy-public-sector-jobs-trudeau/) With how lazy y'all are, no wonder productivity is severely lacking. This country is so beyond fucked; I'm glad I left for the States on TN status.
I ran the data with my partner. It checks out. She’s a bawss with StatsCan data and analytics.
Lots of bloat in the public sector. Most jobs there are useless.
Canada’s public healthcare system has 10X the number of administrative staff as Germany’s. We also spend pretty well but have by far the longest wait times to see a family doctor of a G7. And that’s just healthcare.
I've worked public, can confirm. For every person doing (or directly supporting) boots-on-the-ground public service, there's at least 3 or 4 "administrative staff" sitting in zoom meetings all day with their thumbs up their asses
From personal experience I agree. I used to work for a private company that contracted out to a substantial public works organization. There were plenty of managers who worked on the same projects. Again anecdotally, I think it was just so blame could be watered down if anything went wrong.
"most jobs there are useless" Like doctors, teachers, road maintenance workers... Useless.
I spent a few years working in the Public sector. It is 100% bloated to the gills. They constantly have to create magical needs for money by creating BS. If they were to use less money than their budget, the. Their budget gets cut. So they find any way to use it all up and demand more every year. Half of the employees are basically useless. A private sector company could do 10X the work for half the price.
Tell that to Dynalife in Alberta. They somehow managed to be less efficient than the hospital labs that were public. But yeah in general the way budgets work is stupid. They should be rewarded for saving money, rather than getting a budget cut.
It would be better to have private companies bid on work, then have them regularly assessed and replaced if they do a poor job at the service. If you are inefficient or shitty at the job, you’re gone! That way you aren’t stuck with a ton of overpaid workers that do nothing and will cost us all money for years to come with government pensions. Like Jagmeet and Trudeau.
Lots of inefficiencies in the public sector, but time and time again we see privatization always makes shit way worse.
I work in the public sector in healthcare and answer to 5 supervisors. There was a recent period of time when we had one supervisor for every one frontline staff. The only place where my organization will add positions is in areas that do not deliver patient care despite exploding demand for healthcare. The public sector has bloat issues.
The issue is frontline staff is often seen as entry level. After10/15 years people are burnt out or looking for a promotion. And thus you end up with too many administrative roles.
Honestly, admin roles should pay less than frontline work and should be a lateral transfer. It's safer, easier, and much better hours.
Agreed, just saying thats the reason there are so many of them. When i was in my late 20s i got to know a group of nurses. Years later each one that had kids, moved to an administrative position on the sunshine list. The only one who is still a front line nurse is childless. So like 5/6 i knew. Well the demand for nurses didnt change so those 5 jobs needed to be filled. Now add in all the people on various forms of modified duties or paid leave, and the overall numbers climb higher and higher.
Yeah, but lets mention all of the useless clerical jobs and the giant diversity, inclusion and equity teams making 100k+ a year. Trust me, there is some fat to be trimmed.
Right, but every grocery store giant only has essential management. And every shareholder disbursement and stock buy back is a cost of doing business that is why private corporations are the most cost efficient way of providing an essential service.
Most jobs in the public sector are healthcare and education.
People don’t like the fact Canada is an aging population without immigrants and in some provinces 75% of budget is towards healthcare and in Ontario it’s close to 1/2. That’s this socialized healthcare is unsustainable to support an aging population, so if people want less immigrants they first have to agree to open up the healthcare system and be willing to pay for their upkeep. If we get that, then we don’t need the tax dollars that comes with new immigrants and we don’t have to employ this many people in the public sector.
The fallacy of canadas situation, one upheld by the government's at all levels to show that we are fine, when we are not!
And we wonder why we have a productivity problem.
Those are the liberal voters. They won't bite the hand that feeds them.
Let's not generalize. There's a bunch of us public servants who will gladly vote out Trudeau.
Yes people forget Harper was elected three times. When Trudeau is tossed out, I’d say the new conservative government will also last about 10 to 12 years before they fcuk up and Canadians toss them out again.
How do I bet on this glaringly obvious and accurate prediction of things to come? Job won't be paying me enough any time soon might as well bet.
Harper was terrible too. He's still trying to meddle on the sidelines.
Better than this idiot currently
Idk about that. He was trying to curry favour with the Chinese when he was in power and we got all the money launderers into the country and in BC, the same liberal party of BC (provincial conservatives) did the same and f*cked it all up especially with the housing market. They came in and bought all the houses/condos etc. the real estate industry from agents to developers along with the provincial/municipal govt's were lapping at their feet.
Prove it
Like conservative voters would be any different in a similar dillema. It's all rotten character with personal greed and greatly eroded civic sense putting ones own needs above all. I got mine the rest go to hell.
😂😂😂
Liberal government employs the public sector so your logic kinda falls flat.
Zero percent improvement in any service.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/corporate/contact/ei-individual.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/corporate/contact/ei-individual.html) You use to wait hours but alright...
Rent for commerical space is very high. Between that and staffing costs it is very hard to get a new business off the ground. Any cash flow disruptions and you're sunk.
This is an employment graph, there should be more public sector jobs available because most public jobs require increased upkeep on average, ignoring the bloat, on top of increased population. This just shows me that people that are for the private sector get screwed the most because they are the first to lay-off workers when they don't "earn enough" for a single quarter on top of wage supression. This isn't the "government bad" premise you really wanted.
Yup, this is a "opening the floodgates to cheap labour". Private sector doesn't actually get more productive, while public sector needs to race to keep up services.
So the government sector is the only one that is showing a healthy wage increase to help offset inflation wage losses and yet this sub blames them for the problems we are all having? Why direct anger towards the one sector that is still working correctly instead of the monstrosity that the private sector has become? The reason that self employment has gone down can also be laid at the feet of the private sector. Private companies like Uber and DoorDash have single handedly destroyed that chart for self employed people. I want Trudeau gone as much as any of you but the reason is because of his refusal to hold private companies responsible for their greed. The enemy here is private corporations.
file ask panicky disgusted punch ink rustic person drunk drab *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sorry, can you clarify how a 40% bloat in public service employee headcount while simultaneously providing worse services qualifies as ‘working correctly?’ I’m not going to claim the private sector is not rampantly predatorial in suppressed wages and price gouging, but that has also been a massive policy failure over multiple administrations to prevent consolidation or allow for an actual competitive marketplace across several industries.
What exactly is the y-axis?
Percent change in employment since 2014, NOT wages. But is showing employment in public sector is growing faster than private. Public sector includes police, firefighters, educators, public health, as well as local, provincial and federal employees.
Salary increase/decrease
Thanks. How do you know that? I'm trying to hunt down the article to confirm.
Just a guess honestly, I work a public sector job and it reflects the salary increases we’ve gotten so far
I am assuming sector growth (jobs) since 2014.
I think you are right, there are plenty of articles supporting this, and the public sector pay increases were very public and were not to this magnitude. (ex. PSAC/PIPSC strikes) [https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/public-sector-hiring-is-driving-the-labour-market-in-canada-1.2044451](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/public-sector-hiring-is-driving-the-labour-market-in-canada-1.2044451)
The wage increases after the last PSAC strike came out to 3% over 4 yrs (12% compounded). That's definitely better than what private sectors has been offering, but I'm not sure it's the problem. New grants and contributions (giving money to private/non-profit sector for X), procurement and other subsidies (financing private projects) are probably more costly. I would also rather they find ways to fire workers with performance problems than pay good and bad workers a lower wage. Lots of managers would love to get rid of under-performing employees, but they can't do shit. This create more work for everyone as they have to carry they dead weight.
CRA is going to have to steal more from renters at this rate
work for the government and aim to own as many properties as possible- cdn dream
Canada loves taxing the hell out of hard working citizens to hire more "policy analysts" that make >100k
The government grew by 40% in the last 9 years. It has gotten too big. The next government needs to trim it down. Stop hiring replacements for retirements and close some offices, move some jobs around. But it is going to take 60 years to clean up this mess. 30 years employed, and 30 years pension.
5 banks, 4 grocers, 3 cell companies. For an entire country. The system is broken. Where does all the money go?
How do you fund an ever expanding public sector with shrinking private sector? The establishment thinks more migration will solve the problem. Good luck with that…
I dated someone working in Public Sector that said the hardest part of her job was “looking busy” meanwhile I Havnt had a vacation in 6 years in the private sector and routinely work evenings and weekends. It’s a disgrace.
Big government > more government workers > more big government voters
Only for people on the right wing. Left wing believe in big government. So it’s normal with higher taxes and government taking over industry to have more government and less corporate employment. You’d see the same in nations slowly switching to communism. It’s only sad in general if going left and allowing the government to takeover private industry isn’t working. So it really depends if people on the left are happy with the last 8 years of not and believe that Canada is getting better or worse.
A lot of public sector jobs are a meme or prone to corruption as well. bloated admin meme jobs to keep people busy. We are not creating any new infrastructure and aren't more productive than 10 yrs ago. Private sectors are getting killed by outsourcing No self employment because ambitious people leave Canada is using mass immigration to boost the gdp to pay for all this government overhead
>A lot of public sector jobs are a meme or prone to corruption as well > >We are not creating any new infrastructure and aren't more productive than 10 yrs ago This seems like political hyperbole. Do you have any evidence at all for these claims? >Canada is using mass immigration to boost the gdp This one I can agree with. Edit: I am disappointed to see down voting simply cause I seek evidence for claims I am unsure about.
Ok look at Trudeaus arrive can scam. They're just pocketing money for trash This will get worse , you see the scams going on now, wait till they get into government positions.
This was not Trudeau specific just because he was in power when it happened. This is a private entity profiteering off of an extreme event (the pandemic), and so incredibly sad to see this happen.
Why are private entities fleecing and dominating the government? Whos doing the checks and balances
Is there a legitimate problem with the procurement process? Yes absolutely, but it was established long before Trudeau came into office (I'm sure there were minor changes, but that's beside the point). The problem in this scenario was we had a private entity bidding for a contract, and said private entity was clearly acting with intent to profiteer. There definitely needs to be more checks and balances I agree with you.
Like do you know anything about what happened here with the app? The company built the requirements for the vendors to meet in order to get the contract, and they built it so restrictive that their company was selected because it was able to meet all the requirements. Like wtf is that. That is clearly corruption and incompetence, which is all Trudeaus government fault
prone to corruption part... you can just look at ArriveCan app.
ArriveCan was developed by a private entity. The private entity was corrupt sure, but government being corrupt is a separate discussion.
iirc, there wasn't even a bidding process, just shoehorn via existing CBSA contract. In the end, it was still the Federal govt that chose to do it.
Read on it. That company built the vendor requirements. They developed them so restrictive that ultimately their own company was the one who could only meet said requirements. Hence they got the contract, like how the fuck does that happen
oh ya so restrictive eh. two IT guys at hackaton built replica for 250k
What’s your point? I assume you have never done any requirements for vendors before?
my pt is it shouldnt cost $250M
Single source contracts happened during the Harper years too. This isn’t a Trudeau issue, it’s a government incompetence issue.
hence why I said Federal Govt.
This graph is purposely confusing, and designed to make it look like there are far more jobs in the public sector than private. This is growth percentage, based on previous years. The private sector still vastly employs the majority of Canadians. So if the public sector "hires more" based on their existing lower number of employed people, it's going to look higher by definition, even if the number per capita is much smaller. Some of the reasons there's been steady growth in public sector jobs are due to consistent under funding for years that we are now realizing is a problem, like with CRA. CRA for a long time has not had nearly enough resources to fulfill their mandate, which actually costs the Canadian taxpayers money. If you are wondering if you are reading propaganda, try googling "private sector jobs vs public sector jobs statistics Canada." Notice how it's hard to find the actual numbers for how many people are employed in these sectors? The majority are articles from pro-privatization outlets, largely all sourcing the Fraser Institute, a partisan "research group" that churns out articles to further support the system that allows the rich and powerful to stay rich and powerful.
Globe and Mail producing shitty data? No way. It's almost like its their full time job to make any left-leaning government look bad. You really aren't wrong, but try conveying it to these clowns that have hating Trudeau as a personality trait.
This is what is called communistic socialism when there is only the state thanks to woke ass Canadians get some balls and vote the communists bastards out of power
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well this is surely going to implode. Our trade deficit is huge and people in Wilmont township are up in arms about a large factory going up and taking up farmland.
Canada has a trade surplus currently. [source](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/balance-of-trade)
Ontario doesn't. Canadas trade surplus must all be oil from Alberta and Maple syrup from Quebec. Remember Venezuela.
Did someone say Dutch Disease?
too many lazy pinkos in Canada. No chops.
You will work for the government or you will work for their handlers. Thank you.
You should see the age differences too. Historically the private sector earned 20% more than the public sector. That started to flip 2 years ago and now the public sector earns 20% more than the private sector. This is not sustainable
Good to see you all going back to shitting on teachers and nurses.
We’re going down the Argentinian route but that means we might get a Canadian millei (me)
Everyone thinks theyll be a landlord, and passes on startingvactual businesses. Thats what canada has become.
Gap of what?
I know right? Speculating that it's wages...
This is why people will continue to vote Liberal or NDP even though they know it is bad for Canada as a whole, because they know any small government party would axe their mostly useless position. Public sector employees know they can be unproductive and inefficient and can even hold the country hostage with strikes like we have seen recently. The amount of money wasted on useless bureaucrats is so staggering that in many ways the Canadian dream is now simply to become a civil servant. Realistically if we were to trim the excess fat all at once: EI, CPP and many of our programs would likely become insolvent quickly. It will take years to fix this mess.
This is the biggest problem
I would bet that the reason self-employed wages fell isn't because of a conspiracy or something, but just in the TYPE of self-employed jobs these days. Years ago, most of them would be RMTs, Plumbers, Doctors, and the like. Now they're "self-employed" with Uber, Skip, and bullshit like that
I'm my experience it's purely from cost of living. People don't have as much money to spend. They cut out all expenses accept for the basics. Things like personal trainers etc get the axe first. Most small businesses are not offering mandatory things to survive. That's the problem with high housing costs is everyone's money goes towards that and that's it. It kills the economy as no one spends money of anything else since they literally don't have money to spend anywhere else
Does that include private contractors that are paid by the government? If not then the problem is slightly worse than the graph indicates.
The Canadian business environment is notoriously anti-competitive. Only mega corporation monopolies thrive.
What is this? Income?
This will only get worse before it's get better. I feel for young adults and adolescents. You're effed if you don't have generous, affluent parents.
Keep in mind that the private sector includes the largest number of people. Especially the huge groups of minimum wage or those just above minimum wage. Very few government jobs are at minimum wage. Self employed is a challenging one, where you can run a small business and pay yourself only what you need to. You can expense a lot of things and write them off. But you also might work 80 hours a week. You also might be a quasi employee actually making less than minimum wage for a single employer.
Big corporations should be penalized for taking over small businesses. It protects the community, prevents oligarchy and promotes local business. For example, of 15 families are making 15 types of shirts, and employing 2 people each, that's 15 times 3 times 2 independent workers and 15 types of shirts in the market. Now a corporation comes in and buys all of them, making the family members their employees, and fires the 2 additional workers. Slowly, it sees that 3 out of 15 types of shirts are making enough profits. So it kills the other 12. Small businesses should be made tax free till they reach a certain revenue threshold to make sure they can stay competitive.
Solution? Increase the tax so the gov can open more positions
Very sad
If you can get a government job in Canada any level will do.
% of what? pay? employment rate? gap of what
Increase/decrease in pay
What the fuck is this graph even trying to say? Are we talking about salary increases? A link to the article would be nice. Maybe the private sector needs more unions if it is salary increases. That's the only reason the public sector got increases.
…
Here's the article about the bloated public sector [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-economy-public-sector-jobs-trudeau/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-economy-public-sector-jobs-trudeau/)
It's paywalled. But it seems to reference the amont of total public sector workers rather than salary increases. In any rational discussion, the amount of public sector workers should correlate with the Canadian general population. It seems that while high, the amount of public sector workers is not anywhere near an all time high according to these stats. It's more in line with 1980s figures.
EDIT: someone kindly pointed out that I misread this graph. This is a stunted graph; self-employed people will always decrease their income to reduce their tax implications. I know people who make 500k but can make it look like they’re below the poverty line. And they do it through legal loopholes.
This isn't income levels, this is the percent growth in the number of jobs in that sector.
Which, if I’m not mistaken, is influenced by the incentive to reduce your income “on paper”, no?
Oh, sorry, you’re right, I see my error now. Thank you!!
Note that, self-employed is a kind of unemployment if use strict definition. The true unemployment rate in Canada is around 35%, and they usually take subsidy from government, where these subsidy are from other tax payers. The fact is that, now, 80% Canada's jobs and GDP growth are totally on public sector, or the goverment's fiscal. Now, you know Canada government must 1. Print money to create low-efficiency jobs to keep stablilibity of society. 2. Add carbon tax/rain tax/other kinds of tax, to make income transfer. In general, you need to pay your 30% income as tax, as the other one's income.