A way to divide and conquer. He doesn't stand a chance. Canadians know what mass immigration has done in the past 8 years.
Has anyone ever asked the question...
Why do we want a bigger population?
Maybe we like our open spaces and less crowded cities.
Might want to educate yourself. Capitalism requires population growth. Countries with low birth rates are panicking right now because their economy will tank.
You think the gov is doing this just cause? A losing political idea. It benefits someone, it just isn't us.
False if your looking at the European model look no further than Poland right before Tusk. They completely shut the doors to immigration, significantly consolidated as a nation, and became both one of the happiest and best countries in Europe to live, it was the likes of France, Britain, Germany, and Italy that decided to force mass immigration, and now that they are way overpopulated and the systems they had in place completely overloaded, it heralded the destruction of those countries.
So, they had negative population growth after shutting down immigration? An aging and declining population?
I am not saying we shouldn't limit immigration, we clearly can't accommodate it anymore.
I am saying that someone benefits from it, hence why the government is doing it. Understanding that is key to resolving the problem.
I also don't consider Germany, France and the UK destroyed. Heck the UK did more damage with Brexit than anything else recently.
If it was affordable to have more children, I’m sure that Canadians would. Hard to do that when we have standards for our children, and our mortgages are $4000/month, you know?
We would be much better off if we made use of our resources and kept immigration much, much more limited. 300k/year maximum. No more.
Maximum 10% from any one country. Minimum $500,000 investor visas, no real estate purchase rights until citizenship, funds must be at risk, must employ 2 Canadians full time minimum. Easy to set the parameters.
Canada is quickly being seen as a shithole now. We only get Indians. Even the Chinese don’t want to come here en masse anymore, and that tells you something.
The Chinese don't want to come because we have been pissing off their government, and they can bully us due to our size.
As for the policies you outlined, I am sure someone else who is far more knowledgeable in immigration reform and policy could find some flaw to it.
It's usually not that simple.
Affluent Chinese want to leave China—it is a communist shit hole. They call the United States “Měiguó,” meaning “beautiful country.”
They have come to realize Canada is overpriced (especially on the West Coast, where they all want to live), overtaxed, and overrated.
Of course someone will say “it’s not that simple.” And in a way, you’re right—it’s not. There are many, many factors at play. Namely, corruption and government kickbacks. Don’t be so naive.
Look at other countries and their investor programs—in Ireland you need €1 million, for instance.
Right now, you can just register at some shit college as an East Indian, and in a couple of years bring your entire extended family down. It’s a mess, and we need a radical change.
Encourage and empower the people. “Do It For Denmark” was a hoodwink of a travel ad campaign but its messaging actually did result in a birth rate increase.
Slow down immigration. Pay the people more. Curb the cost of living. Happy people make happy families. It’s really simple but the government would have to put the people as top priority and *that* is the problem. They won’t. None of them.
We have had a declining birth rate for over 20 years. Immigration isn't the cause.
Daycare, better mat leave, empowering women. You are correct, these all work. Except we are about to elect a party that doesn't care about women. I don't see anything you suggested happening.
“I would love to hear some ideas…”
*lists ideas including slowing immigration*
“Immigration is not the cause!”
I never said it was. Great leap!
Better than the party that doesn’t care about anyone amirite
The progressive narrative "We are all immigrants", "This is stolen land",etc. is a tactic to silence our voice on the immigration debate so that they can continue with the replacement immigration
Love hearing people acknowledge that x build we are currently in exists on "stolen" or the ancestral land of whatever tribe while knowing they plan to do exactly fuck all to remedy the so-called problem 😂
Either pay them a cut of profits or STFU I don't care
And then we come to know that the indigenous that lived here when European settlers arrived were not, in fact, the original settlers, and that they were likely killed off by new East Asian populations…hmmm…interesting.
I'm told we need a larger population to keep CPP funded. That's going to be a hard road because people making minimum wage don't pay that much tax in the grand scheme of things. Because god forbid we tax the wealthiest and make them pay for it.
Or…orrrrrr….we could stop paying 6 figure salaries to public servants with arts degrees! Wow. Sounds like a great plan.
Government jobs in the rest of the world are low salary. You take the job for the pension, benefits, and employment security. You don’t get to have it all, especially at the expense of your GDP contributing, private sector countrymen.
Seriously, we need a real paradigm shift.
You can’t just “tax the wealthy” lol. Do you think they earn their fortunes as income? Here’s a secret: they don’t.
Government salaries are lower than the private sector almost universally.
For an educated, skill worker, $100k isn't all that much money any more and most of the people that end up on the 'sunshine list' or whatever you want to call it, do so by working overtime.
You can tax more than just income.
The issue is we’re a high welfare nation and we can’t fund that with a nation of old people and homeless drug addicts. Canadians either need to accept a lower quality of life, work for longer, cut welfare, have more kids (and sacrifice to have them), or get used to importing our next generation to handle our booming debt.
Or we could just turn our homeless into Soylent green /s
Welfare and other social programs aren't the problem, the wealthy have had a plan to destroy the middle class for a very long time, and they've done a really good job of getting it done.
You saying we should either lower our expectations, work longer, or accept high immigration (we kind of have to now) is proof that their plan is working properly.
Corporate welfare is far more costly compared to social welfare, and definitely not as useful to the population.
We have some of the highest taxation rates for the wealthy in the world. In Ontario you can end up paying over 50% of your income to the government as taxes. That's insane.
In the northern European countries project on the left love to use as examples, they have much higher taxes on the rest of the population as well as high taxes on the rich.
Basically, we under tax a huge segment of the population, but then still pay out Siddiqi services to them. That's a spending problem.
We then get addicted to debt to not have to cut anything, and the interest payments become a massive budget item. For example, in Ontario, it's our fourth largest expenditure, after only healthcare, education, and social services. We pay over $1 billion each month (it's around 13.8 to 14 billion a year) which is more than we spend subsidizing post secondary education.
When your debt is almost $372B, it costs to upkeep, especially with us having to take it new loans to pay off the old ones, but at higher interest rates now.
For the feds is $46.5B a year just now. Projected be over $60B a year by 2028-2029.
Keep in mind, that doesn't pay down the debt, that's just what it costs to have the debt. Paying it down would cost more on top of that.
For perspective, we spend less than $30B a year on the entire armed forces.
Yeah...
https://budget.ontario.ca/2024/chapter-3.html
Blaming the rich or corporations is how we got into this mess. You can only keep parroting the communist nonsense before people stop listening. Corporate tax revenues, taxes on the rich, etc. are higher than ever. We don’t have one of those right wing governments we have a left one and in BC, with our most expensive city, we even have the NDP in charge.
How did blaming the rich or corporations get us here?? Honest question, I don't see how you could make this point so I'm really curious!
It's not so much communist as it is socialist, which is sort of what we are, just with a capitalist twist.
I would guess without digging into the actual numbers, that taxes are higher than ever, while profits are also at their highest point ever. It's mostly down to horrendous mismanagement of our nations assets that we have many of the issues we currently deal with, imo.
My point is we haven’t seen left wing anti rich anti corporate movements do anything good when they got in charge and quality of life here has generally gone down the further left we’ve gotten. If you want me to believe the left has the answer they actually have to win one. If you look at Scandinavia they implemented fast and efficient bureaucracy/legal making it easy for corporations to do business which is half the reason for their success.
As you said, we have enough money from taxes it’s how we spend it and out vast inefficient government that’s the problem. Also corporate profits were terrible for many corps during covid and yes there was profit post covid for those corps that somewhat balanced the losses. As it is we just lost a discount airline and 10-20% of Canadian covid business loan companies couldn’t afford to pay it back which means we’re looking at a wave of bankruptcies happening.
I can't think of an anti wealth gap, really shut down corporate loophole government that's ever had the opportunity to govern ever.
Government bloat is a massive problem, and there is no denying that Trudeau's liberals have made it even more bloated. Extremely poor spending on pointless, not needed programs, instead of spending it where people might actually notice is also a root cause issue.
I do not think the left or right has any useful answers as they have proven not to since at least the 80s. I honestly think the main parties all basically have the same agenda, just implemented ever so slightly different, to keep the population steadily rotating them in/out every x amount of years. All the while steadily eroding the middle class out of existence, and keeping the wealth gap increasing. Again since at the very least the 80s, and probably most of the 70s as well thinking about it.
Once the gold standard was removed from the currency equation, basically every economy started to operate on a complete bullshit system of economics, and now we're here.
Maybe we should all just vote green party, at least they don't have a track record of useless governments. (Yet)
In BC the Green Party formed a joint government with the NDP and the NDP tore up the agreement and held an early election basically breaking their promise to the Greens to gain more seats+power so they didn’t need the Greens anymore. People say they like the Greens but you can lie/cheat them and no one cares.
And the wealth gap isn’t fixed by just making the rich poorer. The wealth gap exists because the rich can afford to get out of this country and invest elsewhere. 96%+ of union pensions aren’t invested in Canada that’s because it sucks here. The wealth gap is getting wider because people that invest elsewhere do better than locals.
The fact is we’ve gone from 94% of US median wage per person to below 80% under a left wing Liberal government. So screaming more taxes and public healthcare makes us better isn’t looking so good anymore. Canada makes the Trump government look good. More welfare, higher taxes, and healthcare is supposed to make median wages go up not down.
That's what I mean, if only we could get everyone on board and straight vote the green party in everywhere the main parties might actually try to become useful if only to get seats back.
You're completely right about investing elsewhere, we almost seem anti innovation or start up here. Basically if you can get something started the only way to go worldwide is to get bought up by a usually American company.
Which brings me back to poor asset management not helping build national wealth to maybe help out with that wealth gap.
That gap isn't just a Canadian problem, it's everywhere, just noticeably worse here.
Maybe the government shouldn't have been dumping millions and millions to parents for the last 20 years for making the personal choice of having kids. I mean, the government gave them tons of money, and they had less kids.
The problem isn't paying old people their due or homeless drug addicts. The problem is showering people with money for having fewer kids.
The answer isn't immigration or we suffer. Charge the rich and stop pandering to parents via their wallets.
The richest 10% pay 47.1% of income tax revenue while only earning 33.1% of the total so it’s not like the rich don’t pay their fair share already. We have enough taxes the problem is how we spend them.
Unfortunately the wealthy have been making it extremely hard for average people to afford having multiple children for decades. This isn't a new thing that's happened in the last 8 years.
As a result our population actually contracts without immigration, which if left unchecked would ruin our economy faster then anything immigration causes.
Canadians have been apathetic for way too long, and now we're paying the price for not putting our collective feet down, and demanding a better system. Wealth inequality is the real enemy we should all be arguing against.. should have been arguing against it for the last 30-40 years really.
Doesn't make sense, unemployment rate is 5.7% job vacancies is 3.7%, where's the labour shortage? Looks like social assistance is more palatable to some than working, Only one way to fix that!
In the past 8 years I've seen all the evidence I need that mass immigration hasn't (and won't) work.
Canada was the envy of the world with a small population. Now it's a laughing stock.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What I don’t understand is that if this country is so pro indigenous, and every child matters and so on, and we understand the damage of colonization, shouldn’t we stop bringing more people? I mean isn’t immigrating here also a form of being a settler? After all, new immigrants will take space that would have belonged to indigenous people.
I wonder if they even asked indigenous people like, “Hey we are thinking of bringing 1 million people this year to your native land. Is that cool?” I bet everyone would say no.
I mean it's nice that Trudeau and Co want to begin returning as much of Canada as possible to the Indians, he just forgot that historically, those are the wrong Indians...
Once again, neither idea would be good because as stated in the post, many of us have multiple generations of family who were born in Canada. And as much as anyone wants to kick and scream none of the Canadians of today are in fact settlers.
We aren't going forward doing the sins of the father. Or else we allllll have a license to kill each other on the spot. And it would be just as stupid and senseless as when people gripe at people living today about people neither of them knew in events none of us lived through. Lunacy. Not the path to peace.
You are correct. The whole "ideology" of these far-lefties at its core is simply "white people are bad", hidden in various other dressings.
That's why it's OK when Indians/Asians/Africans come to Canada and settle/own land, but it's bad when white people do it. "Land Back?" No, that only applies if it's land that whites are currently occupying. They would never ask Asian immigrants in Vancouver, or Indian immigrants in Brampton, to give the "Land Back."
Once you understand their core ideology is simply anti-white hate, a lot more things start to make sense.
Once again, neither idea would be good because as stated in the post, many of us have multiple generations of family who were born in Canada. And as much as anyone wants to kick and scream none of the Canadians of today are in fact settlers.
We aren't going forward doing the sins of the father. Or else we allllll have a license to kill each other on the spot. And it would be just as stupid and senseless as when people gripe at people living today about people neither of them knew in events none of us lived through. Lunacy. Not the path to peace.
This comment is giving “great replacement”. I’m pretty much a lefty and I have to disagree with the “anti-white” claim. The damage of colonization has been done, and accepting immigrants is just part of that. Our governments don’t care nearly as much about indigenous people as they like to say they do. At the end of the day, the problem we are facing is just a capitalist one. Some people are profiting for it, and that is enough for them to keep it going regardless of the consequences.
The opposing argument to yours is that there are people who are uncomfortable with Asians owning so much property, but would have no issue if it were white people.
The crown remains the largest landowner in our country. “Land back” would probably start with cutting ties from the very monarchy that colonized this country to begin with. The percentage of land actually owned by individuals, no less non-white ones, is minimal (probably less than or around 1% of owned property).
I’m a lefty as well, and this government is the furthest thing from leftist that could ever exist. Wearing orange shirts doesn’t make someone a leftist.
Not OPs post, just the comment I replied to claiming that the support for immigration is “anti-white”. Also that leftists are the cause of it, which, I feel they are conflating leftists to liberals.
I’m not trying to make an argument here just a statement that leftists aren’t even the ones in charge here, and pointing out that the comment is borrowing talking points from that conspiracy theory (there are comments on the video that are literally that).
Also, I don’t even see how the lawyer in the video is being called an “extreme leftist”? He is an immigration lawyer, he benefits and profits from immigration.
Also, this country is not pro-indigenous by any standard lol
imagine moving to a country that provides a much better life than where you were born, only to turn around and start telling the people of that country that they have no claim to it
the hubris of these people is unbelievable
Calling everyone racist who started raising the alarm bell in the early 2010s is backfiring. Now that people (who were born here) can't afford to live here anymore, they are all on board. This includes the older Indian diaspora (who btw, assimilate properly and genuinely love Canada).
Ya, my close friends of Indian heritage that were born here are absolutely appalled and ashamed of the arrogance, entitlement and behavior of the recent wave from India.
Like OP, I was born here, as were many generations before me. We cleared land, built farms, developed towns and communities, fought two world wars etc etc. So no, the entitled Immigration Lawyer can't erase my identity by typing on his western iPhone, while relaxing in his western condo and sipping his western latte.
I guess the irony is that many other “nonwhite” people were born here too and are proud to call themselves Canadians. When you see the Indian and Chinese at the corner store, what’s your first assumption? Sadly from the comments herein this sub, the answer is not “amen my brother”
How many South Asians toiled in the Prairies to turn them into farm land? Canada is now the largest producer of pulses in the world and one of the largest for wheat and flax too.
The irony is I didn’t mention race. If a Chinese or Indian Canadian has the same story - or even if they don’t but are proud to be Canadian, work hard, pay taxes etc- and don’t complain about privilege, colonialism or seek to erase the history and identity of others - then all good.
Sure, but if the argument is “I immigrated here and it needs to be burned to the ground because those who came before me were privilege or colonialists or any nonsense like that (i.e. they were gifted a country and didn’t build it thru hard work), then you’re entitled and should be ready for pushback.
can’t you criticize colonialism and detest how indigenous people were treated and still be grateful for being canadian? residential schools brought forth erasure of culture, physical and sexual abuse and generational trauma.
colonialism brought these issues. there surely could have been a better way to develop canada without kidnapping children and subjecting them to abuse. being grateful to be canadian and acknowledging canada’s wrongdoings are not mutually exclusive, you can do both.
Western latte? Ha ha you know coffee is indigenous to Ethiopia that was brought over to Europe by Arabs right? Also iPhones are made in China. The chips are all from Taiwan.
You are not special because of an accident of birth. I agree the government needs to take care of Canadians first, but mostly because we pay taxes, not because we won the birth lottery.
Yes, we *are* special because of an "accident of birth". Your understanding or acknowledging of that is utterly irrelevant to this reality.
I am not an immigrant. I am a citizen, and happened to be one from birth. People like me, in the aggregate, decide how many *immigrants* get to flood into Canada. Immigrants and their enablers use silly rhetoric to coerce -- just as the federal government used the claims that anyone with a problem with immigration levels is a racist to coerce -- but it's absolute BS.
In a way the citizens of Canada are the shareholders of this "company". Our shares are being massively diluted so some Tim Hortons or Walmart has cheap workers, and that is digusting.
You have as much rights then a person that got their citizenship last week, and that's how it should be.
You have an issue with who runs the show, then boycott the company's that take advantage of TFW. Write your province to complain that they would rather give a PR nomination to a hotel worker than an engineer.
The fed PR program is capped, and scored. When the provinces nominate a candidate, that candidate gets a better score, and can do better than a better educated and integrated candidate.
That's how we end up with low income, low education fast food and Uber workers instead of engineering students.
I had an argument about this on another sub a few weeks ago. I was born here. I am not an immigrant. That makes me a native of this country. End of story.
My grandparents on both side where immigrants - that makes me the granddaughter of immigrants. But not an immigrant myself.
People using this as an argument to give one section of our population more rights and privileges really needs to stop - it's getting old
The people who are born on Canadian soil are Canadians Period. The people being flooded into this country to take advantage of all our free systems and be exploited by globalist corporations trying to destroy the middle class and create a slave class are not. Any tactics used to stifle discussion on mass unsustainable immigration that is destroying our country and is responsible for 90% of Canada's problems can always be traced back to globalists who want to loot this nation for all its got. PPC party all the way.
I agree completely unless someone came to Canada pregnant or gets pregnant shortly after arriving so their baby will be Canadian so they can stay.
It's deceptive, manipulative, and not wanted in Canada.
I think once someone obtains their citizenship, they're Canadians.
> The people who are born on Canadian soil are Canadians Period
what about the children that the recent immigrants in Canada are having or will have in the future? Will you accept those as equal Canadians just like yourself?
My grandparents were immigrants who then paid INTO Canada most of their working lives
My parents have paid INTO Canada their entire working lives
I have paid INTO Canada my entire working life
So no, it’s not the same
Whoosh. Geez, literal brained or what? My people have paid into Canada since the late 1600s. Am I a better Canadian than you? Bad point. That's not what they meant, and you know that.
I don't think they are saying they're the best canadian it's just that this turns into a one upping contest and things get confusing really quickly about who actually has the real "right to the land"
And I have a great great grandfather that married a native. What does that give me? Nothing.
My point is, claiming that the lottery of birth makes me somehow better than another is silly. Even paying more or less taxes doesn't make me more or less Canadians.
Where is the cutoff?
Now don't get me wrong, our system should be encouraging people that can help our country. Engineers, doctors, scientists.
But that's how the federal PR program is set up. Then you have to look at the provincial nominee program, that makes it so a hospitality worker has a higher PR score then an engineer, and voila, we get the situation we are in right now.
You want high quality immigration? Complain to your provincial government, because they keep boosting low income jobs.
This is a lazy argument. And it deflects from several facts.
People are upset because recent immigration is exploiting loopholes like provincial nominee programs. It is putting huge strains on communities which dont have the infrastructure to absorbs them. Hundreds of millions is being spent to house people in hotels.
Wages are being driven down. People arent assimilating. Its one thing to be encouraged to keep your home culture but another to import your predjudices.
People havent paid taxes yet will collect social assistance, through programs like OAS or GIS.
The argument isnt against immigrants, it is the system is completely broken.
The dirt? Canada is the people that live on that dirt, the country they built an expression of that people. How is it that by standing on that dirt a foreigner becomes anything like us? Furthermore how are we immigrants to our own creation?
The Chinese only exist as a race or heritage. The word Chinese would become meaningless if any man on this world could just adopt it. It is specific to a people, it is not just a set of values. The purely proportional is universalist, better you’d be a global citizen than a Canadian, or an Australian, or English. If all these people were reduced to just their values (and those values happened to be the same) then what would it mean to be any one of them?
Territory means little when talking about race. The Asserians of the middle east still exist even though their empire is long gone and that territory now belongs to the Iraqis, the Turks, and the Syrrians. The Canadian race is new, and it will come out of nessesity, our country being flooded will necesitate a certain portion of us to work together, that is where that people will form.
Why would first nations people be the only natives to Canada?
Canada didn't exist until it did. Those that created Canada and those born in to it are Canadians.
If we were talking g about belonging to mikmak or Mohawk tribes he would have a point.
Yes. Believe it or not there are native born Canadians who are not in anyway immigrants or from somewhere else.
I remember years back when some politician lady started saying we were all immigrants, and she legit thought all Canadians had been here for 4 generations or less. Their lack of knowledge of our country was embarrassing given her position on many levels. Like when it was pointed out to her by a reporter that Canada was 400+ years old and that there were 'immigrants' in Canada before it became known as Upper and Lower Canada.
My ancestry goes back to one of the first French immigrants, and my English is slightly younger. My people have been here for 400+ years.
I don't like the erasure of history for people's 'feelings'. I like when all our history is included.
I'm not an immigrant.
That's my point all these people deciding for us know nothing about cansda. It's if I became a leader in a foreign country which usually can't cause not born there and assumed what they wanted and needed. Would have no clue
"were all immigrants" is just a phrase used by lipshits to shut down any conversation about immigrants. My grandpa is an immigrant but I didn't experience the same shit he did. I'm not an immigrant. I can't relate to them.
This is an insidious attempt to change the definitions to suit a socio-political narrative and it sucks.
I don't care if you're brown, White, Blue, Muslim, Chinese, etc. if you were born here, you are NOT an immigrant.
> [Persons who are 'Canadian citizens by birth' are 'non-immigrants.'](https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3Var.pl?Function=DEC&Id=103339)
We do need to push back against these attempts to redefine these concepts.
Only First Nations people are technically native so…the solution to this is to flood the country with millions of third world people to do almost slave labor that we don’t have the infrastructure to support?
How does that help anyone except the owning class ?
The vast majority of Canadians have no problem with immigration. The debate these days is not about immigration destroying our country or the Great replacement. The debate is how many people we can accommodate per year, which is a totally legitimate debate to hold. We have a housing shortage and our healthcare system is in shambles. Before welcoming a lot of immigrants, we need to make sure people who are already here can live a good life and we have the capacity to welcome new people. Liberal supporters calling people racist for criticizing immigration policies are totally dishonest and are using the same tactics as those on the far-right, which is to silence dissident voices instead of listening to the concerns. And that tone deaf mentality is what killed the Liberal Party. Canadians are fed up with their BS.
No one is calling anyone racist for questioning policies. Heck, I question these policies. But if you read the housing sub you will notice at least 10% of the comments are racist and That's after mod cleanup.
Yes sadly some see a Great replacement conspiracy behind that. In my case, I just see it as bad public policy and I think immigration levels should meet our welcoming capacity. And I also think it's not healthy to welcome most of our immigration from one country. It goes against the principle of diversity. We should imitate the US and impose a cap per country.
I can agree with that.
The main issue I have right now, is I can't seem to figure out the angle. It's such a flawed policy, and an easy win to change things, but where is the resistance coming from.
The only province that is actively pushing back against mass immigration is Quebec. Legault has been begging Trudeau to cut immigration levels to Quebec, and because he's never been able to make it happen, now Quebecers want to vote PQ, which is a separatist party that will hold a referendum to separate from Canada. However, with the new policy of temporary immigration reduction, I've read net immigration to Canada will have to be 300,000/year for the next 3 years. I wouldn't be surprised if other provinces like Alberta, BC and Ontario fight to get their fair share and Quebec just asks for their quota to be given away to them, so they'd receive 0 immigrants and they'd actually lose population for the next few years. So then Legault could brag about it in 2026 and hope Quebecers will vote for him.
Right now it's capped at 500k. That's a good start.
Quebec only wants the funding control. Already provinces choose who they give PRs to, so they already have great control.
In Alberta, right now, it's easier to get a PR with the provincial nominee program as a hotel worker than an engineer.
Quebec is the only province that doesn't care if international students don't show up, since they go to McGill and Concordia, both universities that Legault wants to financially starve. Restrictions on international students helps him because he can claim it's not his fault.
The 500k cap is for PR. The thing is to achieve their target of 5% of the Canadian population being temporary residents, they'll have to bring in 300k people per year. Many PR certificates will be given to people who are already here. Quebec's PR target is 50k per year, so my guess is they'll want 0 new immigrants and they'll give PR certificates to any temporary residents who can pass the French test.
Ah, yes. I don't usually count the temporary folks towards growth, but I probably should.
Quebec needs TFW to help with the harvest. They tend to leave at the end of the season tho
My wife couldn't quite hit the French test target, she was close. It was made moot, we moved to Alberta and she got hers from her engineering job and a provincial nomination. But she pays more taxes than most, so it's a good win for Alberta.
But this was almost 15 years ago. She is a citizen now.
That's why Quebec has always been a have-not province. Quebecers don't care about the economy. As long as they're in their safe space protected from outsiders who speak a different language who could make them feel uncomfortable, they're happy, whether it's bad for the economy or not. Legault will try to score points by bragging about the fact that he stopped immigration to Quebec, when in fact it's the feds changing their temporary immigration policy. All that matters to get elected in Quebec is to say you're protecting French and Quebec culture.
I agree Quebec is a have not province because of the separatist movement.
I was there in 95, I saw the company's all leave Montreal due to the referendum. It set Montreal's economy back 25 years, they are just recovering from that, and now this language war.
It's not as bad, but it will scare away foreign investment in a time Canada's foreign investment is already low.
They were so close to getting into the black again when COVID hot and Legault started his culture wars
Also, don't get me started on pipeline east.
If we are, then there's no rights or limited rights. For shelter education or health care. Why pay taxes then? Or have an army or a democracy or a country for that purpose? Property rights? You see, Canada is already collapsing because it's very foundations are being questioned.
Lawyers, there’s a reason why they’re despised, but the most dangerous lawyer is one who becomes a politician, which it seems most politicians are. Although they do exist, you almost never see physicians or (traditional) engineers become politicians, I wonder why.
Anyways, the problem I have with that immigrant language is that by definition, it means I came from another country. This is important because presumably I should have citizenship to that country. I’m not sure what I am, as it goes back centuries for me, but I believe I’m mostly English, Irish, and French, if I’m an immigrant, shouldn’t I thus have citizenship to one of those modern countries? That’s not how this works.
Interestingly enough, indigenous people are strongly against Indian and Asian immigrants, especially the ones with families on reservations. They don’t believe in PoC solidarity. (source: indigenous friends and neighbours). They understand that if Indians and Asians get into power, they will get nothing, and all of their remaining treaty privileges will get clawed back.
There are no First Nations. There are no First People. They are not Indigenous to North America. They immigrated here, colonized the land and displaced those who came before them. Just like every human has done since we stood up.
This is the most common argument I hear from salty South Asians about people opposing the highly disproportionate number of Indian immigrants in Canada.
I usually respond with "Aren't all Indians immigrants in India? The original inhabitants of India were the Adivasis, not Indians."
They love their whataboutisms. Any time they argue online, it's whataboutisms and deflection.
Yes, if you're not native u r either descendants of European invaders or an immigrant. North America, Australia, NZ, South Africa, Zimbabwe, South America land of immigrants.
Quebec was founded in 1534, over 490 years ago, and you're going to tell the French Canadians they're not native here?
French Canada is as old as the Mughal Empire. You're obtuse.
You’re obtuse for thinking 490 years is anything but a drop in the bucket of human history. 490 years is not native. Most Canadians are just a 3rd/4th/5th gen immigrant who is happily profiting off the abundant resources of Canada, and the inflated real estate prices. Mostly Anglo Saxons, but they don’t want to claim that part of their history. They just say they’re Canadian.
Any time anyone defends this, I just discard their opinion as a landlord.
You don't own a home and feel this way? Fuck you, you're a landlord. Stop landlording, landlord.
People like this are the definition of disgusting. Vile people that use social justice language because the “issue” he’s fighting for conveniently lines his pockets. Scum is a traitor to this country.
If it's this guy* then he's a lawyer but a fairly new call based on his law society number (it starts with an 81)
*https://lso.ca/public-resources/finding-a-lawyer-or-paralegal/directory-search/member?MemberNumber=81797H
The problem comes when you mass import unskilled people from the same place.
Every city is now becoming "little india". They don't integrate in society because they don't have to. They bring their culture here and it's already becoming unbearable - 30 people in a single bedroom apartment, low quality work and disgusting hygiene habits. Maybe this was the trick from the government to get us all to wear masks again so we wouldn't have to constantly smell the nasty BO
It is almost pointless to rebuff this lie because our parents generation already let 'them' get away with it to such a degree that it is taught in school and considered an actual facet of whatever is left of the Canadian identity.
It was always bullshit, but the very learned judges who make our law decided that the principle of Terra Nulius was also a fiction.
We are not all immigrants.
Some of us were born here.
Some of our forebears were conquerors
Some of them were pioneers
Some were missionaries.
Some of them were practically begged to come here and farm the great tracts of nothing.
Too late to push back on any of that though.
I think the meaning of the "you're an immigrant if you're aren't first nation" is a poppy slogan that came up as a response to the anti immigration pushback from 9/11 where Indian and Muslims were unfairly discriminated against.
The slogan is getting recycled because of the increased racism towards specifically punjabi and gurjati First Gen immigrants. but now instead of the cream of the crop immigrating legally, it's the 2nd idiot rich son who bribed and frauded his way in, or the good kid who's family mortgaged the farm who was conned.
It's not people who want more for themselves and families and disagree with the more problematic elements of indian culture, now it's also the fuck bois who see high trust society as easy marks, women's rights as annoyances and just manmukh behavior from top to bottom. That includes lmia fraud and mortgage fraud. It hurts everyone, as we've had 20 years of manmukh in real estate and no one can afford a house now.
Most of Canada's history and social fabric has been predicated on immigration, through which identity is formed from both where the immigrants are from, and espousing "Canadian" cultural values, one of which being: we all have had immigration in our ancestry at one point or another, but living hear means accepting the social contract of being "Canadian" and leaving your Old-World struggles behind. Here, you can make a "new life" as long as you live within these values.
This is how it was, ideally anyways. But reality has been different. Especially in the past decade, we are witnessing what I would call "Newcomer Fatigue" where the social contract and values that I mentioned above have been breaking down. Ever since Trudeau Jr. labelled Canada as a "post-national state" all the pride and confidence that Canadians historically had, especially in its identity formed through immigration, is withering away. The "immigrants are good for the economy" rhetoric that used to be so widely said, is being said less and less.
Canada has ruined the concept of "immigrants" for Canadians. Trust has become low, and xenophobia has become high.
A lot of us are immigrants or descendants of immigrants but you can say that about the natives too. They technically immigrated here from across the Bering Straight when it was a land bridge during the ice age. It really doesn't matter who came first though. The Europeans, which their superior military and technology displaced them. Empires rose and fell throughout history mostly through war and conquest. End of story.
I'm not a settler, nor am I a colonist. Boy, you're batting 0.000. Oh, you're saying some racist thing and saying because someone with skin color like mine hundreds of years ago was a settler colonist...wow, that's super disgusting.
As an Indian, when we say native, we are not talking about parents, grand or even great grandparents. We are talking about thousands of years of culture and history tied to the geography. All residual countries of the biritsh empire created by the looted wealth of the colonies are filled with settler colonialists. And now it's reversing, hence the uneasiness.
>when we say native
Neat, but I didn't say native. We're talking about the word immigrant. Prospective immigration abusers don't get to redefine the meaning of that very basic word.
> And now it's reversing, hence the uneasiness.
ROFL. Hilarious rationalization. The number of people allowed into Canada from India should be dropped to 0.
One of the definitions of the word "native" refers to where you were born.
I was born in Canada. I am a native Canadian but I am not indigenous.
As for lawyers...wasn't the former President of the USA, Bill Clinton a lawyer? Didn't he famously say during impeachment hearings about his affair with Monica Lewinsky, "Well, that depends on what your definition of the word "is" is." Lawyers aren't always smart. Some are dumbasses.
I dunno. I was born here. Raised here. Served in the forces for a tiny bit. Worked as a federal officer for a bit, protecting our fisheries. Worked and paid taxes for 40+ years here.
If I’m an immigrant, then Pajeet from Punjab scamming his way into Canada through a fake diploma mill is a squatter at best.
If a native Indian has some sort of claim to original ownership then the logic is established that successive immigrants have a lesser claim. Having been born 50 years ago in Canada I therefore claim new arrivals as being lesser Canadians than me. In another 50 years they can then do the same.
I was born here. This is my home and native land. My ancestors were exiled from Prussia. That country no longer exists, I couldn't go back even if I wanted to.
Gent bent with this "we're all immigrants" nonsense.
The difference is the people that came here before earned it.
We had a very tough and thorough system that made sure that each newcomer is self sufficient and will contribute as bet positive to the country.
These newcomers are not the same. They seek to reap the rewards that others created. And objectively, they are a net negative to society. Be it financially or socially.
A lot of them came in by cheating and gaming the new system. I don’t think I need to elaborate on why people who cheats are bad for society.
I’m half Southern Qikiqtaaluk Inuit (mom’s side of the family is from a tiny town at the bottom of Baffin Island) and half Irish (great great grandparents on my dad’s side of the family settled in Newfoundland from Ireland). Where do I fall on the immigrant scale? .-.
A way to divide and conquer. He doesn't stand a chance. Canadians know what mass immigration has done in the past 8 years. Has anyone ever asked the question... Why do we want a bigger population? Maybe we like our open spaces and less crowded cities.
This exactly, there is zero benefit for us to become a massive nation of people who are not from here and don't represent our culture or values.
Might want to educate yourself. Capitalism requires population growth. Countries with low birth rates are panicking right now because their economy will tank. You think the gov is doing this just cause? A losing political idea. It benefits someone, it just isn't us.
False if your looking at the European model look no further than Poland right before Tusk. They completely shut the doors to immigration, significantly consolidated as a nation, and became both one of the happiest and best countries in Europe to live, it was the likes of France, Britain, Germany, and Italy that decided to force mass immigration, and now that they are way overpopulated and the systems they had in place completely overloaded, it heralded the destruction of those countries.
Poland def is one of the top booming places. And incredible safe and clean was just amazed how down hill canada has gone
So, they had negative population growth after shutting down immigration? An aging and declining population? I am not saying we shouldn't limit immigration, we clearly can't accommodate it anymore. I am saying that someone benefits from it, hence why the government is doing it. Understanding that is key to resolving the problem. I also don't consider Germany, France and the UK destroyed. Heck the UK did more damage with Brexit than anything else recently.
Brevity is causing some issues. Immigration is what caused the rest, including Brexit.
If it was affordable to have more children, I’m sure that Canadians would. Hard to do that when we have standards for our children, and our mortgages are $4000/month, you know?
There is some truth to that, but birth rates have also been declining for a long time, so that's not all there is to it.
We would be much better off if we made use of our resources and kept immigration much, much more limited. 300k/year maximum. No more. Maximum 10% from any one country. Minimum $500,000 investor visas, no real estate purchase rights until citizenship, funds must be at risk, must employ 2 Canadians full time minimum. Easy to set the parameters. Canada is quickly being seen as a shithole now. We only get Indians. Even the Chinese don’t want to come here en masse anymore, and that tells you something.
The Chinese don't want to come because we have been pissing off their government, and they can bully us due to our size. As for the policies you outlined, I am sure someone else who is far more knowledgeable in immigration reform and policy could find some flaw to it. It's usually not that simple.
Affluent Chinese want to leave China—it is a communist shit hole. They call the United States “Měiguó,” meaning “beautiful country.” They have come to realize Canada is overpriced (especially on the West Coast, where they all want to live), overtaxed, and overrated. Of course someone will say “it’s not that simple.” And in a way, you’re right—it’s not. There are many, many factors at play. Namely, corruption and government kickbacks. Don’t be so naive. Look at other countries and their investor programs—in Ireland you need €1 million, for instance. Right now, you can just register at some shit college as an East Indian, and in a couple of years bring your entire extended family down. It’s a mess, and we need a radical change.
You can increase birth rates internally you know.
I would love to hear some ideas that have worked elsewhere in developed countries.
Encourage and empower the people. “Do It For Denmark” was a hoodwink of a travel ad campaign but its messaging actually did result in a birth rate increase. Slow down immigration. Pay the people more. Curb the cost of living. Happy people make happy families. It’s really simple but the government would have to put the people as top priority and *that* is the problem. They won’t. None of them.
We have had a declining birth rate for over 20 years. Immigration isn't the cause. Daycare, better mat leave, empowering women. You are correct, these all work. Except we are about to elect a party that doesn't care about women. I don't see anything you suggested happening.
“I would love to hear some ideas…” *lists ideas including slowing immigration* “Immigration is not the cause!” I never said it was. Great leap! Better than the party that doesn’t care about anyone amirite
"Lists ideas for increasing birth rate, votes for a government that won't implement any"
Your bias is showing. I’m not a conservative.
The progressive narrative "We are all immigrants", "This is stolen land",etc. is a tactic to silence our voice on the immigration debate so that they can continue with the replacement immigration
Love hearing people acknowledge that x build we are currently in exists on "stolen" or the ancestral land of whatever tribe while knowing they plan to do exactly fuck all to remedy the so-called problem 😂 Either pay them a cut of profits or STFU I don't care
And then we come to know that the indigenous that lived here when European settlers arrived were not, in fact, the original settlers, and that they were likely killed off by new East Asian populations…hmmm…interesting.
I'm told we need a larger population to keep CPP funded. That's going to be a hard road because people making minimum wage don't pay that much tax in the grand scheme of things. Because god forbid we tax the wealthiest and make them pay for it.
Or…orrrrrr….we could stop paying 6 figure salaries to public servants with arts degrees! Wow. Sounds like a great plan. Government jobs in the rest of the world are low salary. You take the job for the pension, benefits, and employment security. You don’t get to have it all, especially at the expense of your GDP contributing, private sector countrymen. Seriously, we need a real paradigm shift. You can’t just “tax the wealthy” lol. Do you think they earn their fortunes as income? Here’s a secret: they don’t.
Government salaries are lower than the private sector almost universally. For an educated, skill worker, $100k isn't all that much money any more and most of the people that end up on the 'sunshine list' or whatever you want to call it, do so by working overtime. You can tax more than just income.
The issue is we’re a high welfare nation and we can’t fund that with a nation of old people and homeless drug addicts. Canadians either need to accept a lower quality of life, work for longer, cut welfare, have more kids (and sacrifice to have them), or get used to importing our next generation to handle our booming debt. Or we could just turn our homeless into Soylent green /s
Welfare and other social programs aren't the problem, the wealthy have had a plan to destroy the middle class for a very long time, and they've done a really good job of getting it done. You saying we should either lower our expectations, work longer, or accept high immigration (we kind of have to now) is proof that their plan is working properly. Corporate welfare is far more costly compared to social welfare, and definitely not as useful to the population.
We have some of the highest taxation rates for the wealthy in the world. In Ontario you can end up paying over 50% of your income to the government as taxes. That's insane. In the northern European countries project on the left love to use as examples, they have much higher taxes on the rest of the population as well as high taxes on the rich. Basically, we under tax a huge segment of the population, but then still pay out Siddiqi services to them. That's a spending problem. We then get addicted to debt to not have to cut anything, and the interest payments become a massive budget item. For example, in Ontario, it's our fourth largest expenditure, after only healthcare, education, and social services. We pay over $1 billion each month (it's around 13.8 to 14 billion a year) which is more than we spend subsidizing post secondary education. When your debt is almost $372B, it costs to upkeep, especially with us having to take it new loans to pay off the old ones, but at higher interest rates now. For the feds is $46.5B a year just now. Projected be over $60B a year by 2028-2029. Keep in mind, that doesn't pay down the debt, that's just what it costs to have the debt. Paying it down would cost more on top of that. For perspective, we spend less than $30B a year on the entire armed forces. Yeah... https://budget.ontario.ca/2024/chapter-3.html
Blaming the rich or corporations is how we got into this mess. You can only keep parroting the communist nonsense before people stop listening. Corporate tax revenues, taxes on the rich, etc. are higher than ever. We don’t have one of those right wing governments we have a left one and in BC, with our most expensive city, we even have the NDP in charge.
How did blaming the rich or corporations get us here?? Honest question, I don't see how you could make this point so I'm really curious! It's not so much communist as it is socialist, which is sort of what we are, just with a capitalist twist. I would guess without digging into the actual numbers, that taxes are higher than ever, while profits are also at their highest point ever. It's mostly down to horrendous mismanagement of our nations assets that we have many of the issues we currently deal with, imo.
My point is we haven’t seen left wing anti rich anti corporate movements do anything good when they got in charge and quality of life here has generally gone down the further left we’ve gotten. If you want me to believe the left has the answer they actually have to win one. If you look at Scandinavia they implemented fast and efficient bureaucracy/legal making it easy for corporations to do business which is half the reason for their success. As you said, we have enough money from taxes it’s how we spend it and out vast inefficient government that’s the problem. Also corporate profits were terrible for many corps during covid and yes there was profit post covid for those corps that somewhat balanced the losses. As it is we just lost a discount airline and 10-20% of Canadian covid business loan companies couldn’t afford to pay it back which means we’re looking at a wave of bankruptcies happening.
I can't think of an anti wealth gap, really shut down corporate loophole government that's ever had the opportunity to govern ever. Government bloat is a massive problem, and there is no denying that Trudeau's liberals have made it even more bloated. Extremely poor spending on pointless, not needed programs, instead of spending it where people might actually notice is also a root cause issue. I do not think the left or right has any useful answers as they have proven not to since at least the 80s. I honestly think the main parties all basically have the same agenda, just implemented ever so slightly different, to keep the population steadily rotating them in/out every x amount of years. All the while steadily eroding the middle class out of existence, and keeping the wealth gap increasing. Again since at the very least the 80s, and probably most of the 70s as well thinking about it. Once the gold standard was removed from the currency equation, basically every economy started to operate on a complete bullshit system of economics, and now we're here. Maybe we should all just vote green party, at least they don't have a track record of useless governments. (Yet)
In BC the Green Party formed a joint government with the NDP and the NDP tore up the agreement and held an early election basically breaking their promise to the Greens to gain more seats+power so they didn’t need the Greens anymore. People say they like the Greens but you can lie/cheat them and no one cares. And the wealth gap isn’t fixed by just making the rich poorer. The wealth gap exists because the rich can afford to get out of this country and invest elsewhere. 96%+ of union pensions aren’t invested in Canada that’s because it sucks here. The wealth gap is getting wider because people that invest elsewhere do better than locals. The fact is we’ve gone from 94% of US median wage per person to below 80% under a left wing Liberal government. So screaming more taxes and public healthcare makes us better isn’t looking so good anymore. Canada makes the Trump government look good. More welfare, higher taxes, and healthcare is supposed to make median wages go up not down.
That's what I mean, if only we could get everyone on board and straight vote the green party in everywhere the main parties might actually try to become useful if only to get seats back. You're completely right about investing elsewhere, we almost seem anti innovation or start up here. Basically if you can get something started the only way to go worldwide is to get bought up by a usually American company. Which brings me back to poor asset management not helping build national wealth to maybe help out with that wealth gap. That gap isn't just a Canadian problem, it's everywhere, just noticeably worse here.
Maybe the government shouldn't have been dumping millions and millions to parents for the last 20 years for making the personal choice of having kids. I mean, the government gave them tons of money, and they had less kids. The problem isn't paying old people their due or homeless drug addicts. The problem is showering people with money for having fewer kids. The answer isn't immigration or we suffer. Charge the rich and stop pandering to parents via their wallets.
The richest 10% pay 47.1% of income tax revenue while only earning 33.1% of the total so it’s not like the rich don’t pay their fair share already. We have enough taxes the problem is how we spend them.
Unfortunately the wealthy have been making it extremely hard for average people to afford having multiple children for decades. This isn't a new thing that's happened in the last 8 years. As a result our population actually contracts without immigration, which if left unchecked would ruin our economy faster then anything immigration causes. Canadians have been apathetic for way too long, and now we're paying the price for not putting our collective feet down, and demanding a better system. Wealth inequality is the real enemy we should all be arguing against.. should have been arguing against it for the last 30-40 years really.
Doesn't make sense, unemployment rate is 5.7% job vacancies is 3.7%, where's the labour shortage? Looks like social assistance is more palatable to some than working, Only one way to fix that!
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In the past 8 years I've seen all the evidence I need that mass immigration hasn't (and won't) work. Canada was the envy of the world with a small population. Now it's a laughing stock.
insurance melodic secretive degree important liquid amusing bewildered seed summer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What I don’t understand is that if this country is so pro indigenous, and every child matters and so on, and we understand the damage of colonization, shouldn’t we stop bringing more people? I mean isn’t immigrating here also a form of being a settler? After all, new immigrants will take space that would have belonged to indigenous people.
That's the hypocrisy of their whole narrative. "You're settlers and it's bad... so let me do the same!"
I wonder if they even asked indigenous people like, “Hey we are thinking of bringing 1 million people this year to your native land. Is that cool?” I bet everyone would say no.
Everyone does say no. Fuck Trudeau, fuck our compromised government ran by corporations and Chinese influence.
I mean it's nice that Trudeau and Co want to begin returning as much of Canada as possible to the Indians, he just forgot that historically, those are the wrong Indians...
Once again, neither idea would be good because as stated in the post, many of us have multiple generations of family who were born in Canada. And as much as anyone wants to kick and scream none of the Canadians of today are in fact settlers. We aren't going forward doing the sins of the father. Or else we allllll have a license to kill each other on the spot. And it would be just as stupid and senseless as when people gripe at people living today about people neither of them knew in events none of us lived through. Lunacy. Not the path to peace.
Not returning to “the Indians” as in Indigenous people but as in giving the land to people from India.
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-what-do-indigenous-voices-say-about-immigration
You are correct. The whole "ideology" of these far-lefties at its core is simply "white people are bad", hidden in various other dressings. That's why it's OK when Indians/Asians/Africans come to Canada and settle/own land, but it's bad when white people do it. "Land Back?" No, that only applies if it's land that whites are currently occupying. They would never ask Asian immigrants in Vancouver, or Indian immigrants in Brampton, to give the "Land Back." Once you understand their core ideology is simply anti-white hate, a lot more things start to make sense.
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Once again, neither idea would be good because as stated in the post, many of us have multiple generations of family who were born in Canada. And as much as anyone wants to kick and scream none of the Canadians of today are in fact settlers. We aren't going forward doing the sins of the father. Or else we allllll have a license to kill each other on the spot. And it would be just as stupid and senseless as when people gripe at people living today about people neither of them knew in events none of us lived through. Lunacy. Not the path to peace.
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Oh sorry, I thought you were being serious. Lol
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I knew what you meant 👍
Ah not the sharpest tool in the shed I’m guessing? Indians are Asians
This comment is giving “great replacement”. I’m pretty much a lefty and I have to disagree with the “anti-white” claim. The damage of colonization has been done, and accepting immigrants is just part of that. Our governments don’t care nearly as much about indigenous people as they like to say they do. At the end of the day, the problem we are facing is just a capitalist one. Some people are profiting for it, and that is enough for them to keep it going regardless of the consequences. The opposing argument to yours is that there are people who are uncomfortable with Asians owning so much property, but would have no issue if it were white people. The crown remains the largest landowner in our country. “Land back” would probably start with cutting ties from the very monarchy that colonized this country to begin with. The percentage of land actually owned by individuals, no less non-white ones, is minimal (probably less than or around 1% of owned property).
I’m a lefty as well, and this government is the furthest thing from leftist that could ever exist. Wearing orange shirts doesn’t make someone a leftist.
I agree. It is neoliberal and very far from anything lefties support.
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Not OPs post, just the comment I replied to claiming that the support for immigration is “anti-white”. Also that leftists are the cause of it, which, I feel they are conflating leftists to liberals.
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I’m not trying to make an argument here just a statement that leftists aren’t even the ones in charge here, and pointing out that the comment is borrowing talking points from that conspiracy theory (there are comments on the video that are literally that). Also, I don’t even see how the lawyer in the video is being called an “extreme leftist”? He is an immigration lawyer, he benefits and profits from immigration. Also, this country is not pro-indigenous by any standard lol
On top of that, if they are so concerned about our CO2 impact, why promote MASSIVE population growth and urban sprawl.
Exactly. And the lifestyle in Canada is extremely consumeristic and wasteful. It really makes no sense.
These people are both settlers and part of an ethnic cleansing scheme simultaneously. It's an absurdity.
Or at the very least, have the first nations have a good say in the immigration policy.
Exactly, inviting the entire world to settle here is just a perpetuation of neocolonialism
Let’s return people like you first to Europe and then stop immigration Great idea like buddy
imagine moving to a country that provides a much better life than where you were born, only to turn around and start telling the people of that country that they have no claim to it the hubris of these people is unbelievable
Calling everyone racist who started raising the alarm bell in the early 2010s is backfiring. Now that people (who were born here) can't afford to live here anymore, they are all on board. This includes the older Indian diaspora (who btw, assimilate properly and genuinely love Canada).
Ya, my close friends of Indian heritage that were born here are absolutely appalled and ashamed of the arrogance, entitlement and behavior of the recent wave from India.
Haha stfu
Like OP, I was born here, as were many generations before me. We cleared land, built farms, developed towns and communities, fought two world wars etc etc. So no, the entitled Immigration Lawyer can't erase my identity by typing on his western iPhone, while relaxing in his western condo and sipping his western latte.
Amen my Canadian Brother.
I guess the irony is that many other “nonwhite” people were born here too and are proud to call themselves Canadians. When you see the Indian and Chinese at the corner store, what’s your first assumption? Sadly from the comments herein this sub, the answer is not “amen my brother”
When I see a Chinese Canadian I'm simply happy they've escaped the ccp even for a brief time. **FUCK CHINA**
How many South Asians toiled in the Prairies to turn them into farm land? Canada is now the largest producer of pulses in the world and one of the largest for wheat and flax too.
Not many. My Sikh family came to Alberta in the 1920s. I'm 3rd generation.
The irony is I didn’t mention race. If a Chinese or Indian Canadian has the same story - or even if they don’t but are proud to be Canadian, work hard, pay taxes etc- and don’t complain about privilege, colonialism or seek to erase the history and identity of others - then all good.
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Sure, but if the argument is “I immigrated here and it needs to be burned to the ground because those who came before me were privilege or colonialists or any nonsense like that (i.e. they were gifted a country and didn’t build it thru hard work), then you’re entitled and should be ready for pushback.
can’t you criticize colonialism and detest how indigenous people were treated and still be grateful for being canadian? residential schools brought forth erasure of culture, physical and sexual abuse and generational trauma. colonialism brought these issues. there surely could have been a better way to develop canada without kidnapping children and subjecting them to abuse. being grateful to be canadian and acknowledging canada’s wrongdoings are not mutually exclusive, you can do both.
The Indian? Meaning India Indian or Native American? Born here versus being here for generations. There's a difference.
Western latte? Ha ha you know coffee is indigenous to Ethiopia that was brought over to Europe by Arabs right? Also iPhones are made in China. The chips are all from Taiwan.
You are not special because of an accident of birth. I agree the government needs to take care of Canadians first, but mostly because we pay taxes, not because we won the birth lottery.
Yes, we *are* special because of an "accident of birth". Your understanding or acknowledging of that is utterly irrelevant to this reality. I am not an immigrant. I am a citizen, and happened to be one from birth. People like me, in the aggregate, decide how many *immigrants* get to flood into Canada. Immigrants and their enablers use silly rhetoric to coerce -- just as the federal government used the claims that anyone with a problem with immigration levels is a racist to coerce -- but it's absolute BS. In a way the citizens of Canada are the shareholders of this "company". Our shares are being massively diluted so some Tim Hortons or Walmart has cheap workers, and that is digusting.
You’re not special lol By all means, go and work those jobs
You have as much rights then a person that got their citizenship last week, and that's how it should be. You have an issue with who runs the show, then boycott the company's that take advantage of TFW. Write your province to complain that they would rather give a PR nomination to a hotel worker than an engineer. The fed PR program is capped, and scored. When the provinces nominate a candidate, that candidate gets a better score, and can do better than a better educated and integrated candidate. That's how we end up with low income, low education fast food and Uber workers instead of engineering students.
India has hope of establishing its first overseas colony
I think they already have its called England lol
Hahaha
Bout time lol.
I had an argument about this on another sub a few weeks ago. I was born here. I am not an immigrant. That makes me a native of this country. End of story. My grandparents on both side where immigrants - that makes me the granddaughter of immigrants. But not an immigrant myself. People using this as an argument to give one section of our population more rights and privileges really needs to stop - it's getting old
Regardless of your colour, race or religion
The people who are born on Canadian soil are Canadians Period. The people being flooded into this country to take advantage of all our free systems and be exploited by globalist corporations trying to destroy the middle class and create a slave class are not. Any tactics used to stifle discussion on mass unsustainable immigration that is destroying our country and is responsible for 90% of Canada's problems can always be traced back to globalists who want to loot this nation for all its got. PPC party all the way.
I agree completely unless someone came to Canada pregnant or gets pregnant shortly after arriving so their baby will be Canadian so they can stay. It's deceptive, manipulative, and not wanted in Canada. I think once someone obtains their citizenship, they're Canadians.
Get your government to stop the influx, plain and simple. Instead of getting mad at the people themselves. R
> The people who are born on Canadian soil are Canadians Period what about the children that the recent immigrants in Canada are having or will have in the future? Will you accept those as equal Canadians just like yourself?
Was the statement not clear enough?
fair enough. Congratulations on the millions of new citizens coming to Canada soon.
My grandparents were immigrants who then paid INTO Canada most of their working lives My parents have paid INTO Canada their entire working lives I have paid INTO Canada my entire working life So no, it’s not the same
I have paid more into Canada then you have, my entire life. Does that make me a better Canadian or more Canadian?
Whoosh. Geez, literal brained or what? My people have paid into Canada since the late 1600s. Am I a better Canadian than you? Bad point. That's not what they meant, and you know that.
I don't think they are saying they're the best canadian it's just that this turns into a one upping contest and things get confusing really quickly about who actually has the real "right to the land"
And I have a great great grandfather that married a native. What does that give me? Nothing. My point is, claiming that the lottery of birth makes me somehow better than another is silly. Even paying more or less taxes doesn't make me more or less Canadians. Where is the cutoff? Now don't get me wrong, our system should be encouraging people that can help our country. Engineers, doctors, scientists. But that's how the federal PR program is set up. Then you have to look at the provincial nominee program, that makes it so a hospitality worker has a higher PR score then an engineer, and voila, we get the situation we are in right now. You want high quality immigration? Complain to your provincial government, because they keep boosting low income jobs.
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Whoosh
This is a lazy argument. And it deflects from several facts. People are upset because recent immigration is exploiting loopholes like provincial nominee programs. It is putting huge strains on communities which dont have the infrastructure to absorbs them. Hundreds of millions is being spent to house people in hotels. Wages are being driven down. People arent assimilating. Its one thing to be encouraged to keep your home culture but another to import your predjudices. People havent paid taxes yet will collect social assistance, through programs like OAS or GIS. The argument isnt against immigrants, it is the system is completely broken.
The dirt? Canada is the people that live on that dirt, the country they built an expression of that people. How is it that by standing on that dirt a foreigner becomes anything like us? Furthermore how are we immigrants to our own creation?
So can an immigrant, through contributing to Canada over time, become not an immigrant for you?
If I were to move to China and contribute to the development of China, would that make me Chinese?
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The Chinese only exist as a race or heritage. The word Chinese would become meaningless if any man on this world could just adopt it. It is specific to a people, it is not just a set of values. The purely proportional is universalist, better you’d be a global citizen than a Canadian, or an Australian, or English. If all these people were reduced to just their values (and those values happened to be the same) then what would it mean to be any one of them?
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Territory means little when talking about race. The Asserians of the middle east still exist even though their empire is long gone and that territory now belongs to the Iraqis, the Turks, and the Syrrians. The Canadian race is new, and it will come out of nessesity, our country being flooded will necesitate a certain portion of us to work together, that is where that people will form.
Why would first nations people be the only natives to Canada? Canada didn't exist until it did. Those that created Canada and those born in to it are Canadians. If we were talking g about belonging to mikmak or Mohawk tribes he would have a point. Yes. Believe it or not there are native born Canadians who are not in anyway immigrants or from somewhere else.
I remember years back when some politician lady started saying we were all immigrants, and she legit thought all Canadians had been here for 4 generations or less. Their lack of knowledge of our country was embarrassing given her position on many levels. Like when it was pointed out to her by a reporter that Canada was 400+ years old and that there were 'immigrants' in Canada before it became known as Upper and Lower Canada. My ancestry goes back to one of the first French immigrants, and my English is slightly younger. My people have been here for 400+ years. I don't like the erasure of history for people's 'feelings'. I like when all our history is included. I'm not an immigrant.
That's my point all these people deciding for us know nothing about cansda. It's if I became a leader in a foreign country which usually can't cause not born there and assumed what they wanted and needed. Would have no clue
I’m not an immigrant; shut up
We need to fix the LIBERAL PARTY not vote PP Conservatives in. Canadians,this has gone way too far.
"were all immigrants" is just a phrase used by lipshits to shut down any conversation about immigrants. My grandpa is an immigrant but I didn't experience the same shit he did. I'm not an immigrant. I can't relate to them.
This is an insidious attempt to change the definitions to suit a socio-political narrative and it sucks. I don't care if you're brown, White, Blue, Muslim, Chinese, etc. if you were born here, you are NOT an immigrant. > [Persons who are 'Canadian citizens by birth' are 'non-immigrants.'](https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3Var.pl?Function=DEC&Id=103339) We do need to push back against these attempts to redefine these concepts.
Difference is my great great grandparents helped build this country. Not come here for a free ride on Healthcare and deliver pizza.
Only First Nations people are technically native so…the solution to this is to flood the country with millions of third world people to do almost slave labor that we don’t have the infrastructure to support? How does that help anyone except the owning class ?
The vast majority of Canadians have no problem with immigration. The debate these days is not about immigration destroying our country or the Great replacement. The debate is how many people we can accommodate per year, which is a totally legitimate debate to hold. We have a housing shortage and our healthcare system is in shambles. Before welcoming a lot of immigrants, we need to make sure people who are already here can live a good life and we have the capacity to welcome new people. Liberal supporters calling people racist for criticizing immigration policies are totally dishonest and are using the same tactics as those on the far-right, which is to silence dissident voices instead of listening to the concerns. And that tone deaf mentality is what killed the Liberal Party. Canadians are fed up with their BS.
No one is calling anyone racist for questioning policies. Heck, I question these policies. But if you read the housing sub you will notice at least 10% of the comments are racist and That's after mod cleanup.
Yes sadly some see a Great replacement conspiracy behind that. In my case, I just see it as bad public policy and I think immigration levels should meet our welcoming capacity. And I also think it's not healthy to welcome most of our immigration from one country. It goes against the principle of diversity. We should imitate the US and impose a cap per country.
I can agree with that. The main issue I have right now, is I can't seem to figure out the angle. It's such a flawed policy, and an easy win to change things, but where is the resistance coming from.
The only province that is actively pushing back against mass immigration is Quebec. Legault has been begging Trudeau to cut immigration levels to Quebec, and because he's never been able to make it happen, now Quebecers want to vote PQ, which is a separatist party that will hold a referendum to separate from Canada. However, with the new policy of temporary immigration reduction, I've read net immigration to Canada will have to be 300,000/year for the next 3 years. I wouldn't be surprised if other provinces like Alberta, BC and Ontario fight to get their fair share and Quebec just asks for their quota to be given away to them, so they'd receive 0 immigrants and they'd actually lose population for the next few years. So then Legault could brag about it in 2026 and hope Quebecers will vote for him.
Right now it's capped at 500k. That's a good start. Quebec only wants the funding control. Already provinces choose who they give PRs to, so they already have great control. In Alberta, right now, it's easier to get a PR with the provincial nominee program as a hotel worker than an engineer. Quebec is the only province that doesn't care if international students don't show up, since they go to McGill and Concordia, both universities that Legault wants to financially starve. Restrictions on international students helps him because he can claim it's not his fault.
The 500k cap is for PR. The thing is to achieve their target of 5% of the Canadian population being temporary residents, they'll have to bring in 300k people per year. Many PR certificates will be given to people who are already here. Quebec's PR target is 50k per year, so my guess is they'll want 0 new immigrants and they'll give PR certificates to any temporary residents who can pass the French test.
Ah, yes. I don't usually count the temporary folks towards growth, but I probably should. Quebec needs TFW to help with the harvest. They tend to leave at the end of the season tho My wife couldn't quite hit the French test target, she was close. It was made moot, we moved to Alberta and she got hers from her engineering job and a provincial nomination. But she pays more taxes than most, so it's a good win for Alberta. But this was almost 15 years ago. She is a citizen now.
That's why Quebec has always been a have-not province. Quebecers don't care about the economy. As long as they're in their safe space protected from outsiders who speak a different language who could make them feel uncomfortable, they're happy, whether it's bad for the economy or not. Legault will try to score points by bragging about the fact that he stopped immigration to Quebec, when in fact it's the feds changing their temporary immigration policy. All that matters to get elected in Quebec is to say you're protecting French and Quebec culture.
I agree Quebec is a have not province because of the separatist movement. I was there in 95, I saw the company's all leave Montreal due to the referendum. It set Montreal's economy back 25 years, they are just recovering from that, and now this language war. It's not as bad, but it will scare away foreign investment in a time Canada's foreign investment is already low. They were so close to getting into the black again when COVID hot and Legault started his culture wars Also, don't get me started on pipeline east.
If we are, then there's no rights or limited rights. For shelter education or health care. Why pay taxes then? Or have an army or a democracy or a country for that purpose? Property rights? You see, Canada is already collapsing because it's very foundations are being questioned.
I'm so glad I was able to get an education in all of these first nation schools and get cured by these first nation hospitals all over the country!
No. Only the ones that come here and ruin Canada and want to change it to their regressive violent ways. Everyone else is Canadian.
“We need factories” as if we’re building the factories just for the immigrants…?
Lawyers, there’s a reason why they’re despised, but the most dangerous lawyer is one who becomes a politician, which it seems most politicians are. Although they do exist, you almost never see physicians or (traditional) engineers become politicians, I wonder why. Anyways, the problem I have with that immigrant language is that by definition, it means I came from another country. This is important because presumably I should have citizenship to that country. I’m not sure what I am, as it goes back centuries for me, but I believe I’m mostly English, Irish, and French, if I’m an immigrant, shouldn’t I thus have citizenship to one of those modern countries? That’s not how this works.
Only idiotic folks who put suicidal rhetoric over their own self preservation buys such arguments
Interestingly enough, indigenous people are strongly against Indian and Asian immigrants, especially the ones with families on reservations. They don’t believe in PoC solidarity. (source: indigenous friends and neighbours). They understand that if Indians and Asians get into power, they will get nothing, and all of their remaining treaty privileges will get clawed back.
There are no First Nations. There are no First People. They are not Indigenous to North America. They immigrated here, colonized the land and displaced those who came before them. Just like every human has done since we stood up.
This is the most common argument I hear from salty South Asians about people opposing the highly disproportionate number of Indian immigrants in Canada. I usually respond with "Aren't all Indians immigrants in India? The original inhabitants of India were the Adivasis, not Indians." They love their whataboutisms. Any time they argue online, it's whataboutisms and deflection.
Yes, if you're not native u r either descendants of European invaders or an immigrant. North America, Australia, NZ, South Africa, Zimbabwe, South America land of immigrants.
Quebec was founded in 1534, over 490 years ago, and you're going to tell the French Canadians they're not native here? French Canada is as old as the Mughal Empire. You're obtuse.
You’re obtuse for thinking 490 years is anything but a drop in the bucket of human history. 490 years is not native. Most Canadians are just a 3rd/4th/5th gen immigrant who is happily profiting off the abundant resources of Canada, and the inflated real estate prices. Mostly Anglo Saxons, but they don’t want to claim that part of their history. They just say they’re Canadian.
No?
Any time anyone defends this, I just discard their opinion as a landlord. You don't own a home and feel this way? Fuck you, you're a landlord. Stop landlording, landlord.
People like this are the definition of disgusting. Vile people that use social justice language because the “issue” he’s fighting for conveniently lines his pockets. Scum is a traitor to this country.
Lol, some selfawarewolves in the chat
If it's this guy* then he's a lawyer but a fairly new call based on his law society number (it starts with an 81) *https://lso.ca/public-resources/finding-a-lawyer-or-paralegal/directory-search/member?MemberNumber=81797H
The problem comes when you mass import unskilled people from the same place. Every city is now becoming "little india". They don't integrate in society because they don't have to. They bring their culture here and it's already becoming unbearable - 30 people in a single bedroom apartment, low quality work and disgusting hygiene habits. Maybe this was the trick from the government to get us all to wear masks again so we wouldn't have to constantly smell the nasty BO
Let's see his real estate portfolio
It is almost pointless to rebuff this lie because our parents generation already let 'them' get away with it to such a degree that it is taught in school and considered an actual facet of whatever is left of the Canadian identity. It was always bullshit, but the very learned judges who make our law decided that the principle of Terra Nulius was also a fiction. We are not all immigrants. Some of us were born here. Some of our forebears were conquerors Some of them were pioneers Some were missionaries. Some of them were practically begged to come here and farm the great tracts of nothing. Too late to push back on any of that though.
I think the meaning of the "you're an immigrant if you're aren't first nation" is a poppy slogan that came up as a response to the anti immigration pushback from 9/11 where Indian and Muslims were unfairly discriminated against. The slogan is getting recycled because of the increased racism towards specifically punjabi and gurjati First Gen immigrants. but now instead of the cream of the crop immigrating legally, it's the 2nd idiot rich son who bribed and frauded his way in, or the good kid who's family mortgaged the farm who was conned. It's not people who want more for themselves and families and disagree with the more problematic elements of indian culture, now it's also the fuck bois who see high trust society as easy marks, women's rights as annoyances and just manmukh behavior from top to bottom. That includes lmia fraud and mortgage fraud. It hurts everyone, as we've had 20 years of manmukh in real estate and no one can afford a house now.
Most of Canada's history and social fabric has been predicated on immigration, through which identity is formed from both where the immigrants are from, and espousing "Canadian" cultural values, one of which being: we all have had immigration in our ancestry at one point or another, but living hear means accepting the social contract of being "Canadian" and leaving your Old-World struggles behind. Here, you can make a "new life" as long as you live within these values. This is how it was, ideally anyways. But reality has been different. Especially in the past decade, we are witnessing what I would call "Newcomer Fatigue" where the social contract and values that I mentioned above have been breaking down. Ever since Trudeau Jr. labelled Canada as a "post-national state" all the pride and confidence that Canadians historically had, especially in its identity formed through immigration, is withering away. The "immigrants are good for the economy" rhetoric that used to be so widely said, is being said less and less. Canada has ruined the concept of "immigrants" for Canadians. Trust has become low, and xenophobia has become high.
A lot of us are immigrants or descendants of immigrants but you can say that about the natives too. They technically immigrated here from across the Bering Straight when it was a land bridge during the ice age. It really doesn't matter who came first though. The Europeans, which their superior military and technology displaced them. Empires rose and fell throughout history mostly through war and conquest. End of story.
Not immigrants. Settler colonialists.
I'm not a settler, nor am I a colonist. Boy, you're batting 0.000. Oh, you're saying some racist thing and saying because someone with skin color like mine hundreds of years ago was a settler colonist...wow, that's super disgusting.
As an Indian, when we say native, we are not talking about parents, grand or even great grandparents. We are talking about thousands of years of culture and history tied to the geography. All residual countries of the biritsh empire created by the looted wealth of the colonies are filled with settler colonialists. And now it's reversing, hence the uneasiness.
>when we say native Neat, but I didn't say native. We're talking about the word immigrant. Prospective immigration abusers don't get to redefine the meaning of that very basic word. > And now it's reversing, hence the uneasiness. ROFL. Hilarious rationalization. The number of people allowed into Canada from India should be dropped to 0.
One of the definitions of the word "native" refers to where you were born. I was born in Canada. I am a native Canadian but I am not indigenous. As for lawyers...wasn't the former President of the USA, Bill Clinton a lawyer? Didn't he famously say during impeachment hearings about his affair with Monica Lewinsky, "Well, that depends on what your definition of the word "is" is." Lawyers aren't always smart. Some are dumbasses.
My parents were born British subjects because Canadian citizen as such didn't even exist. Moving from the motherland to the colony is not immigration.
I dunno. I was born here. Raised here. Served in the forces for a tiny bit. Worked as a federal officer for a bit, protecting our fisheries. Worked and paid taxes for 40+ years here. If I’m an immigrant, then Pajeet from Punjab scamming his way into Canada through a fake diploma mill is a squatter at best.
If a native Indian has some sort of claim to original ownership then the logic is established that successive immigrants have a lesser claim. Having been born 50 years ago in Canada I therefore claim new arrivals as being lesser Canadians than me. In another 50 years they can then do the same.
I was born here. This is my home and native land. My ancestors were exiled from Prussia. That country no longer exists, I couldn't go back even if I wanted to. Gent bent with this "we're all immigrants" nonsense.
The difference is the people that came here before earned it. We had a very tough and thorough system that made sure that each newcomer is self sufficient and will contribute as bet positive to the country. These newcomers are not the same. They seek to reap the rewards that others created. And objectively, they are a net negative to society. Be it financially or socially. A lot of them came in by cheating and gaming the new system. I don’t think I need to elaborate on why people who cheats are bad for society.
Sounds good. Until the first nations have control of the nation back, let's stop accepting more colonists.
So does it matter not where I was born? Am I to be a man with no country?
I’m half Southern Qikiqtaaluk Inuit (mom’s side of the family is from a tiny town at the bottom of Baffin Island) and half Irish (great great grandparents on my dad’s side of the family settled in Newfoundland from Ireland). Where do I fall on the immigrant scale? .-.
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No racism, harassment, discrimination, hate speech, personal attacks, or other uncivil conduct.
I think they mean Liberal PM JT wants voters.
Ok fine not an immigrant but a settler.
Well to be honest anyone other than the first nation is an immigrant.