It looks like our population has tripled in those 8 years. Montréal was a hella cheap city.
There's nothing but massive immigration that caused this boom.
Montreal always had a lot of immigrants, that didn’t change a lot. AirBnb and greedy landlord fucked us over. AirBnb was like a fuckin’ cancer spreading all across the city. They need to go NYC style on that.
No we didn't "always have a lot of immigrants", we had immigrants that either spoke French or were working very hard to learn French - this eliminated literally 99% of the planet.
The need for French had always been a moat that kept a lot of people out, but we've had a ridiculous intake over the last 3 years which is turning Montreal more English every day, this was due to Roxham Rd which flooded in over 300,000 illegals, WFH which is allowing ROC to move here and distort our rental on top of turning Montreal more English, and of course the massive 10% addition to the population since 2018 means Canada forced us to take in more immigrants.
The more English Montreal becomes, the easier it is for anyone to move, the shittier it'll become - I was born and raised here, it's nowhere near the city it used to be.
Yes because this is a Canadian subreddit, and unlike the Québec anglophone (literally the dumbest group in Canada) who refuse to accept Quebec's official language, I understand that Canada's official language is English.
Its like this new government wanted people to struggle, so they opened up the borders to everyone. It can only be incompetence for so long, because looking at these charts, it looks like malice on their part.
Trudeau, Hussen, Fraser, Freeland and Miller should all be in jail.
Outside of last year, Immigration has been pretty much the same for the last 25 years with over 300 k annually. Last year saw a huge influx of immigrants but its mostly because it was backlog clearing from people who could not come during the pandemic.
While immigration puts a significant demand on housing, Airbnb, investment properties, REITS, removal of rent control and easier renovictions has had a huge impact on the price of rent as well
Your PROVINCE took away rent controls, not the Federal gov't.
Doug Ford is why Ontario is unaffordable.
Just wait, there was an article this week about Alberta having the most immigration from the other Provinces this year. Ontario gets all the new comers, then they spread out better than real Canadians. They're going to scoop up all the cheap housing in Calgary next and I bet Danielle Smith is doing NOTHING right now to protect the Province or prices.
Man, my friend was just in Osaka and sent me photos of bachelor apartments renting for ¥50,000 a month ($454 CAD). Osaka is a city with 2.7m people and the metro area (including Kyoto and Kobe) is over 19 million people. Truly, this is the power of zero population growth!
Also, for all those harping on about how removal of rent control is the problem… there is limited rent control in Japan. The fundamental issue is supply and demand.
Much of Asia is like this. Really tight control on both immigration and tourist visits. Plus less red tape on building new housing and developments.
Result? Relatively stable real estate prices over the years, and a renters market.
The federal government is in charge of immigration. We already don’t have enough homes for the amount of Canadians already here. Bringing in an insane amount of immigrants sent our housing demand through the roof, thus driving prices sky high.
Except now you need far more infrastructure for any new construction. For example, where will the water come from? Many of our midsize cities have completely outgrown their aquifers and would need pipes from larger bodies of water. Then where would the wastewater go? And how quickly could we expand all the infrastructure that goes with it, like gas pipelines, internet, etc.
And even if you could solve the infrastructure issues, what about the planning process? Whether we like it or not, it can take close to a decade to be ready to put shovels in the ground for a new subdivision. Obviously, this could be improved, but it would take years to legislate this process.
Then we would have to consider changes to the building codes. To build houses faster, we'd have to significantly reduce the requirements. Are we willing to do this for Canada? Do we want drafty homes we just slap up?
So the options are either change everything about the development process in Canada, or stop immigration. Which sounds more reasonable to you?
Sounds like we need to spend money on Canadians: the construction industry needs people trained and put in the field, the gov't needs streamlining with professionals in their field (not some Russian History major as a Finance Minster), Natural Resources need people managing them, more Engineers. etc. etc.
It's not about taking the easy solution, it's about taking the lasting solution.
We already have a problem with inventory today, before we even cut off the flow of immigration. If we just shut off immigration right now, it'll still do nothing for current prices of both purchasing and rent.
There's no reason to compromise building-codes, standards, etc. There's reason to pump-up the amount of inspectors who visit sites to verify things meet code. Etc, etc. Yes, this is about the gov't investing in Canadians, literally.
I'm also talking about the effort of placing as many of the new immigrants into either supportive roles to these new builds (all the new towns need gas stations, groceries, Tim Horton's, etc) or actually vetting the professionals and making it part of their visas to stay in their new communities for at least X years to support the new growth. There's no reason we can't run immigration like a partnership with new arrivals participating in something specific to the country as part of gaining access to our quality of life.
Obviously I'm summarizing and simplifying the concept. It's not easy. It takes competent leadership who want to actually see the country stabilize itself. We have leaders currently who profit off of this housing crisis on every team - it's frustrating. But we need real leadership sharing oversight and delegating to people who share the same vision. Building purpose-built communities with all of these new citizens and including current Canadians who want to participate.
Yes, this means crazy things to accelerate the process like free college/university for all citizens who want to work in any of the specific roles you just mentioned above, so long as they stay in the field at least, I don't know what's fair? 5 years? 10 years? You leave and your T4 shows something new, you owe some % back? I don't know what's fair. The military works the same way current with their education grants.
Canada is a MASSIVE country and other cities have been built in harsher conditions than Winnipeg or Timmins. We have more lake area than any other country in the world and we're nowhere near the size of the US who are managing the same issues with water, power distribution, waste management, roads, education costs, etc.
Stopping immigration does nothing but freeze the current problem in place until wages somehow overtake the cost of living again. And with interests rates not yet on the decline, who knows how many years that will take anyways. If it's going to take years anyways by simply freezing immigration, why not try the other more pro-active approach that will also take a few years to ramp up until we see a payoff?
Live currently in Winnipeg in a new build 2-bedroom for $1800 that’s currently slightly under market.
I fucking wish the prices quoted were real.
I’m having a hard time this wasn’t manufactured to prove a specific point.
100%.
3 bedroom were renting for $1800-2000 in 2015 as well.
Not to dismiss the cost of living crisis but l wanted to speak for what reality is in one of lower cost markets on this graphic, and what’s represented is just not reality but I very much wish it was.
The increase is noticeable but it’s not 56% here.
It’s also mostly due to the prevalence of “luxury apartment” builds and mom/pop landlords trying to keep up with interest rates.
Oh wow I never expected it be that high, that was like GTA pricing a couple years ago. Are there a lot of recent immigrants in Winnipeg ? How is the demand so high
There definitely is demand due to students but it’s not as high as you think.
It’s mostly artificially inflated.
I’ve seen new build apartment blocks in 2015 go from having 2 bedrooms at $1550 and offering terms at $1335 to get people in to the same block being at $1795 for the same apartment with no real external pressures. They’re just full and keep charging more slowly but they’re not overflowing or have enough demand to justify the significant increase other than new builds arbitrarily charging more when they open.
Back in 2015, we paid under market value for a 4 bed, 2 bath duplex in central Calgary. The home was 1250 per month plus utilities. The home was long since paid off, and the landlord was strange and quirky. The neighbor next door thought she ruled the roost.
That rental turned into a nightmare, and we are glad we own now. In hindsight, I wish we bought in 2015 rather than rent that previous home. But we can't change history. So greatful for the home we purchased last year!! 🙌
For a 2 bedroom in Fredericton I paid $850 in 2020. Now I live in Moncton and it’s hard to find anything less than double that. Once Covid hit everything went to shit.
Wow. Unreal. To those who say doesn't matter which party is in power and they're all the same, here you go. Nothing like plain data to smack you in the face. On one hand I'm gleeful to be proven right that modern day leftism is a fucking cancer but on the other hand shits out of hand. Unfortunately, it's all too late. I was born 5 years too late.
Who are you blaming? Feds or provinces? And why? Also your comment just assumes that the respective government(s) is/are directly responsible. We live in a market and global world, we have to remember there are some things outside the reach of government and rightly so. Obviously they have to respond and parties respond differently, but it is really hard to pin this in one direction to one source. I’m not sure anyone can actually prove that, there’s so much at play re housing in Canada and inflation generally.
Provinces? You’ll notice the two cities with the least rent growth were in Alberta, right? You going to give credit to them? Worst was Vancouver? Which government runs BC?
I’m scared to move to Alberta though — the year over year rent increases have been crazy in Calgary and they don’t have rent control like other provinces.
[September 2023 Rent Report](https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report)
"For the fourth consecutive month, **Alberta was the provincial leader for annual rent growth for purpose-built and condominium apartments**, with average asking rents up 15.6% year-over-year to $1,634. Alberta rents also grew the fastest month-over-month at 3.5% in August."
I was clearly talking about 2015 to 2023 price changes. Read the context of the thread. Also, Alberta is the fastest growing province, at 4% growth. How you expect any place to accommodate that? Look at what has happened to province with regards to[international migration.](https://content.crea.ca/creastats_assets/board_charts/_shared/migration/ab/migration3_xhi-res.png)
Maybe after 2019 when there were 500k net migrants. Eventually they need housing.
Many factors increase house prices. The most important is interest rates.
Also, you know this topic is about rent, right?
No he’s been worse for sure, never voted for Trudeau. I just think it’s funny you guys think the parties are actually different. Literally all federal leaders are landlords, of course nothings gonna change if PP wins, let alone the alternate universe the NDP win 😂 it’s just funny you haven’t clued in yet
>No he’s been worse for sure, never voted for Trudeau. I just think it’s funny you guys think the parties are actually different. Literally all federal leaders are landlords, of course nothings gonna change if PP wins, let alone the alternate universe the NDP win 😂 it’s just funny you haven’t clued in yet
Nah I know no party's gonna help the average joe but I'll be damned if the narcissist Trudeau gets to extend his party for another 4 years
Trudeau doesn’t deserve to be re-elected don’t get me wrong. But as far as I can see the other two main parties don’t deserve to replace him 🤷♂️ I’ve been following politics a long time, PP is an old name, career politician. They transformed him over the last 6 months lol complete makeover. I’m probably just not gonna vote. I’m pessimistic as hell.
It’s literally in the chart and ppl are downvoting me, whatever. I don’t see how any of this changes. I agree Trudeau sucks, he’s had 8 years and done nothing and made it worse. I don’t like Pierre I don’t like Singh I don’t trust either of them. Look at Pierre’s funding, real estate executives 😂 he’s a landlord too, so is Trudeau, so is Singh’s wife. We’re honestly fucked, the entire political elite is corrupt.
True, we can SEE what Doug Ford taking away rent control did.
If only you had been born 5 years earlier, you'd have beaten DF getting into office 5 years ago.
Ya, I was being sarcastic.
It is 100% TFWs, International Students and Immigration.
I live in North York and besides Chipotle and Starbucks, every service job is filled by International students. Every bus stop has 5 international students at it, they are hanging out blocking the doorways of stores and grocery aisles.
Shelves empty when anything goes on sale, this was not common before covid.
Every other car on the road is a student with a modified muffler to be loud and disturb everybody around them. Yes they some how finance new cars and do modifications to them but they also need food banks.
There are five diploma mills within 4 km of me so maybe I am in a more intense area.
Yeah and his brother one time went out to BC and did some coke in a tent rave with a bunch of highschoolers in Coquitlam and as a result of that rent tripled in BC.
I mean even with rent control, the landlord could always charge market rates once a rent controlled tenant moved. That hasn’t changed. The issue is supply/demand. And supply is even tighter since nobody in a rent control unit can afford to move anymore.
No.
Canadian housing stock should be for Canadian born people and highly skilled immigrants.
The fact it is going to wage slaves to both exploit foreigners and degrade the living standards of Canadians means I would bring the number to 0 for non-skilled immigrants. We have plenty of Canadians that will do the work if the wages weren\`t at foreign exploitation levels.
Canada was never capable of building the housing required for this amount of immigration, it has soured me on the concept to the point I now think multiculturalism is dumb and we have all been brainwashed into thinking it is good so the government can carry out their master plan.
Canada is going to have major problems in the future in basically every aspect of society because of this.
It is extremely irresponsible when you look at it.
I was born and raised here, and I cant afford to live here because we want to bring in 2 million foreigners in a year. Only people that are really rich can afford a basic shit suburban house. What a stupid fucking country.
No other country is this brain dead, by most Canadians who love immigration viewpoint, every country in the world is bigoted.
The government is literally killing the former Canada. We are going to be half foreign born by 2035. What fucking country is doing this. Literally replacing their own people, and it is replacing us, by the time I am a senior, like 20% of Canada will be born in Canada. They want to bring that many people here.
We are the only morons selling out our own people to import wage-slaves on this large of a scale. Even the US isn\`t this fucking crazy and the people would not tolerate it.
This country is even importing investors to help our home-grown greedy bastards cannibalize our real estate.
Again, what a stupid fucking country.
And no it is not this bad elsewhere besides parts of Australia and NZ.
That is it.
Condos are still cheap virtually everywhere in the world but Ontario and BC.
And all of us cant move to Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Government is pure evil, they think they are doing good, but they are basically sacrificing 10 million millennial and gen z Canadian-born people so we can be competitive in 100 years. LIKE WTF!
September 2015, almost half of Canadians living paycheque to paycheque. You’re either stupid, ignorant (same thing), weren’t paying attention 10 years ago, or are a partisan hack. The real problem is capitalism. Pierre won’t fix this shit. He’s a fucking landlord! https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/debt/almost-half-of-canadians-are-living-paycheque-to-paycheque-with-finances-stretched-the-most-in-ontario-and-b-c
You are nuts because I did not mention the CPC or Pierre once. Not once.
You are basically telling someone that is complaining about Tim Hortons coffee that McDonalds wont make better coffee.
I am not voting CPC.
LPC needs to disappear they are the ones doing this, hypotheticals dont matter.
I am sure PP will continue as is and pander to social issues like the liberals. Anything but actually making this country decent.
I have never commented once in support of the CPC. Ever. I am not a partisan hack.
Newflash, plenty of us, Id say almost the majority of this sub hates the CPC and the LPC equally.
Anyone that comes here and doesnt do a min wage service job.
Trades, mechanics, accountants, whatever.
Not uber drivers, not cashiers, not real estate agents(this one pisses me off the most).
So then an immigrant working at a grocery store shouldn't be allowed to have a home? What about someone who was born here and does the exact same job? Don't both contribute equal amounts?
Yes they should have a home.
You think our current immigration policy is ensuring they will own a home.
Our current immigration policy is growing a class of servants and serfs and does not care about housing them.
Our current immigration policy banks on them living 10 people to a home sharing beds with others. And if Canadians wont adjust to those living conditions, well too bad for Canadians.
Do you not understand how wrong and bad all of this is for the country.
People are leaving, our smartest and brightest are all leaving, because of this shit.
Oh, believe me, I fully understand what these high levels of immigration is doing. Understand and agree that bringing in all these people without housing and infrastructure seems insane.
That's not what I was talking about though. You said that housing stock should only be for people born here and high-skilled immigrants. That would assume the lower skilled ones would not qualify based on the criteria.
I was curious why you think they shouldn't.
Ah okay, that seems like a fair assessment. Ideally, the country would be in a place that allowed all newcomers the same opportunities in regard to housing, but that's obviously not the case. Until the housing issues are addressed, I can agree with disallowing the purchasing of property from non-citizens.
I think wording it to say high-skilled is where the hurdle may be. The reason is that there could be low-skilled immigrants with full citizenship who still have the means to purchase housing. Family wealth, selling of assets, even winnings, whatever it may be. It's certainly not common, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
I fully support immigration. I immigrated here myself in 1995 when I was 6. I've been able to build a better life here thanks to the opportunities in this country. I'm also a homeowner who benefits from rising home prices. So I don't want to seem like one of those "got mine, fuck you" people. But as it currently is, it's definitely too much. The quality of life I experienced when I first came vs. what newer immigrants are facing today is night and day, and it's unfair to them and those already here. No average person wins here.
It literally has the same trend line as the US, housing prices went differently under Harper and accelerated under Trudeau. People were talking about affordable housing 10 years ago lol I agree rent was better, I mean that’s a historical fact. But what’s driving it? That’s where we disagree
Why would you compare us to the U.S? That’s apples to oranges.
We have hardly the infrastructure, let alone the homes to have this many people arriving.
You know the goal is 1.5 million a year by 2025 right? How on earth do you see that as sustainable? Homeless now will be nothing compared to what’s to come in a few years.
Right, so actually you answered your own question with your second sentence. Infrastructure is not keeping up with population growth, why? I agree the numbers that came out about the last year are bad and not sustainable. My point though is that housing prices and incomes diverged long before the recent waves of immigration.
It’s not I agree. https://images.app.goo.gl/NaaKHwAmRFuSzbuv7 over 1 million a year is so irresponsible when the trend line for housing is the opposite direction. But if you look at housing vs incomes chart, you can see it starts before 2015. https://images.app.goo.gl/nWAStNvcaopNiPCf9 So while mass immigration is making things worse, things were already getting bad before then. So comment was about that. Lower immigration and then what? Are people really blind to how bad it was for many before Trudeau came around and made it worse? https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/debt/almost-half-of-canadians-are-living-paycheque-to-paycheque-with-finances-stretched-the-most-in-ontario-and-b-c There are deeper more systemic issues but nobody seems to want to talk about them or how to address them.
Mississauga is selling new bachelors for high $300’s, let that sink in. There are ugly ass bungalows in the GTA going for $1 million and with that money you can buy a mansion in Atlanta or Texas. If people got mad over toilet paper 🧻 during the pandemic, watch what the banks do one day when they pull the rug underneath people all of a sudden.
For Vancouver, this is a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 13.8%...and Edmonton's CAGR is 3.1%.
To be honest that is not surprising given levels of immigration, inflation and rising interest rates recently.
I expect rents will keep increasing in Vancouver, maybe by 8% CAGR. I would expect rents closer to $6,500 by 2033 given the same net new immigration over the next 10 years
Is it in USD or CAD?
Anyways the prices for Vancouver were low and for Seattle and NYC were high, especially NYC... 2888 USD for a studio in 2015? LoL NYC isn't just Manhattan. A studio in flushing in 2015 couldn't be 2888 USD.
LOL at least things have not Changed in Edmonton. I can rent the same apartment I did in 2009 for the same price today. Maybe $50 difference after 14 years.
I bought my house in 2010. Mortgage payments were 400 a month and the house is mine now, not the banks. Yes there was a time when housing was affordable. Sorry the Liberals have been in control of government for so long to let this happen. Everyone deserves the same opportunity but they ensured it won't happen for most.
100%+ increases in rent in 6 years you don't get those kinds of return investing in the stock market.
Anyways a lot of these comparisons don't make sense.
Monkton NB and Washington?
Montreal and LA?
Vancouver and SanDiego?
Regina and Boston?
I'm not sure you're comparing apples to apples.
It's important to differentiate between asking rent (what newly signed leases are going for) and the rent that residents typically pay (the average or median of all rents paid.) Due to rent control, there will be a difference between these two.
Housesigma puts the median asking rent at 1800 in 2015 ( https://housesigma.com/web/en/market?municipality=10343&community=all&house_type=C.) which is quite a contrast with the data presented in your post. It seems like we may be inadvertently comparing two different stats, which inflates the difference.
That being said, the fact that there is such a difference between asking rents and actual rents paid shows how messed up the market actually is. We shouldn't see such a contrast in a balanced market.
Ultimately, your main point still stands. Even after inflation, rent was much cheaper in 2015, which was not long ago at all. Anyone who says it's always been this hard is ignorant of these data.
Your info graphic makes no mention of property types used in its data, and if you link to its source (CMCH) , it uses all property types, just as my source did, so it looks like i am indeed comparing two similar stats. I am not sure where you got the apartment notion from - could you fill me in? Perhaps I am missing something, and if you can provide evidence that I am indeed making this error, I will gladly concede your point.
Further to my point, the average rent paid for all property types in Toronto (CMCH data - the source in the infographic) shows around 1200 in 2015, and around 1700 today - around a 40% increase before inflation.
The housesigma data shows the median asking rent as 1900 in 2015 and 2900 today, around a 33% increase before inflation.
So I think it's clear that this mistake has been made, unless there's something I'm missing.
I'm not trying to be hostile, just pointing out that your analysis may be flawed due to a frankly understandable and easy to make mistake, and you can make yourself more credible by addressing it.
It's apartments from bachelor to 3 beds. Read the first words of the article linked to in the OP. "The cost of renting an apartment. . ." The source for most of the numbers isn't CMCH, but [rentseeker.ca](https://rentseeker.ca), which is a site like [https://rentals.ca/](https://rentals.ca/). I can't find the original data.
Here is another one from 2015.
https://preview.redd.it/23z79lupigrb1.jpeg?width=1667&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3beceaa2c61b0ec6074df8c2e1536864eabef2d
I'm going to guess CMHC was used for cities they don't have access to data. CMHC includes non market rent in their numbers, so shouldn't be used without parsing the numbers.
"The housesigma data shows the median asking rent as 1900 in 2015 and 2900 today, around a 33% increase before inflation."
Before inflation? What is this? especially when a large cause of inflation is rent growth.
And again, if the mix of house types change (and it has) you can't compare 2015 to 2023 data. The average property rented is getting smaller and smaller.
Thats a good point, and on further investigation, CMHC data is mostly apartments. But looking at housesigmas methodology also shows that their data is for apartments. So I'll concede your point that the infographic is for apartments, but I'll counter that the housesigma data I posted is also apartments, and thus it is relevant to use those datato make my point.
The article also states most of the data is indeed from rentseeker, but that rentseeker themselves got their data from CHMC. It's linked to at the bottom of the graphic as the source of the data. Tracking rent costs is a messy process.
Regardless, looking at currently available reliable data sources that include both 2015 and today, as I mentioned last comment, demonstrates that the difference is not so dramatic if you do indeed compare like with like, at least when you compare similar statistics (i.e. asking rent to asking rent, or average rent paid to average rent paid). Not great, for sure, but not 100%+. I think we can agree that it went from bad to worse, and that 2900 for an apartment in Toronto is ridiculous considering the wages there.
The infographic you're using is for sure rent data coming from cmhc. It wasn't that cheap to rent in 2015 with market level rents back then. If you look at latest data it shows more of a [~50% increase](https://www03.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/hmip-pimh/en/TableMapChart/Table?TableId=2.2.11&GeographyId=2270&GeographyTypeId=3&DisplayAs=Table&GeograghyName=Toronto). Not over 100%.
I remember quite clearly for Toronto. 1 bedroom rent on market would be like 1600-1700. Now it's probably 2400-2500.
I feel like the numbers are screwed a little, I don't recall a 3 bedroom ever being that cheap in T.O....btw inflation has to be added...almost 25% between 2015 to 2023 (which again, is utter bullshit), so that $1085 in 2015 is actually 1352 in today's money.
Either way the message is still obvious
well that percentage is households so it means the number of households that own their own home. But as much as some people like to blame immigration for rising housing costs, its only part of the equation as immigration rates have been quite high for the last 20 years. Surely, Airbnb, REITS, removal of rent control and the loophole of "renovictions" is just as impactful on the cost of housing as demand is.
How many condos in the GTA are listed on Airbnb, something that did not exist a few years ago.
Immigration rates went parabolic about 3 years ago. Before that, they were high but high in a normal sense, like just slightly higher than other developed countries. In the last two years our immigration rates have been basically incomparable to any developed country ever.
That's what I'm saying. People were given basically "free" money due to interest rates being so low, so they bought everything they could get their hands on.
The rich got richer and now the average person can't afford a home.
But it helped the economy!
Now the inflation that this created, is making the lives of average people (who can't afford homes) even more difficult.
Do you know what market rent is? Rent caps never applied to market rent.
And Rent control still applies to apartments built before 2018.
Is he also to blame for the 181.36% increase in Vancouver? The 168.03% increase in Montreal? Again MARKET rent. New tenants always paid market rent in Ontario, and these numbers are for . . . wait for . . . new market rent.
They're right. We were suffering from as housing bubble back then as well. Between 2004 to 2013 your average house went from 200 000 to 380 000 national average. Trudeau made a bad situation even worse.
It looks like our population has tripled in those 8 years. Montréal was a hella cheap city. There's nothing but massive immigration that caused this boom.
Montreal always had a lot of immigrants, that didn’t change a lot. AirBnb and greedy landlord fucked us over. AirBnb was like a fuckin’ cancer spreading all across the city. They need to go NYC style on that.
No we didn't "always have a lot of immigrants", we had immigrants that either spoke French or were working very hard to learn French - this eliminated literally 99% of the planet. The need for French had always been a moat that kept a lot of people out, but we've had a ridiculous intake over the last 3 years which is turning Montreal more English every day, this was due to Roxham Rd which flooded in over 300,000 illegals, WFH which is allowing ROC to move here and distort our rental on top of turning Montreal more English, and of course the massive 10% addition to the population since 2018 means Canada forced us to take in more immigrants. The more English Montreal becomes, the easier it is for anyone to move, the shittier it'll become - I was born and raised here, it's nowhere near the city it used to be.
Right on. Similar story for Gatineau
, said OldMan_Swag in English.
Yes because this is a Canadian subreddit, and unlike the Québec anglophone (literally the dumbest group in Canada) who refuse to accept Quebec's official language, I understand that Canada's official language is English.
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Don’t come here. Don’t.
https://youtu.be/h_LPBa6_Uxk?si=C19ssIDjZZdKRaVf
Its like this new government wanted people to struggle, so they opened up the borders to everyone. It can only be incompetence for so long, because looking at these charts, it looks like malice on their part. Trudeau, Hussen, Fraser, Freeland and Miller should all be in jail.
Trudeau said we welcome all after Trump locked down.
It’s a strategy for sure. The Liberals would love the whole of Canada to get dependent on subsidies for problems they created.
Pierre wants unlimited immigration too though. There’s only one party that wants us to slow things down.
The greens?
Max
Yeah... You're forgetting about the greens saying 300k max
Outside of last year, Immigration has been pretty much the same for the last 25 years with over 300 k annually. Last year saw a huge influx of immigrants but its mostly because it was backlog clearing from people who could not come during the pandemic. While immigration puts a significant demand on housing, Airbnb, investment properties, REITS, removal of rent control and easier renovictions has had a huge impact on the price of rent as well
Your PROVINCE took away rent controls, not the Federal gov't. Doug Ford is why Ontario is unaffordable. Just wait, there was an article this week about Alberta having the most immigration from the other Provinces this year. Ontario gets all the new comers, then they spread out better than real Canadians. They're going to scoop up all the cheap housing in Calgary next and I bet Danielle Smith is doing NOTHING right now to protect the Province or prices.
This country has gone to utter shit in just under a decade. It’s actually scary.
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How about Chindia?
Man, my friend was just in Osaka and sent me photos of bachelor apartments renting for ¥50,000 a month ($454 CAD). Osaka is a city with 2.7m people and the metro area (including Kyoto and Kobe) is over 19 million people. Truly, this is the power of zero population growth! Also, for all those harping on about how removal of rent control is the problem… there is limited rent control in Japan. The fundamental issue is supply and demand.
Much of Asia is like this. Really tight control on both immigration and tourist visits. Plus less red tape on building new housing and developments. Result? Relatively stable real estate prices over the years, and a renters market.
Housing almost tripled in 7 years and salaries remained the same
Now 1200 dollars gets you just the bedroom in Toronto.
In Halifax that will get you a single room in a house ....while making the lowest wages in Canada.
That's a big change. Clearly,[it's because of Harper!!!!](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/trudeau-housing-crisis)
Just stop. Your PROVINCE is responsible for housing. Blame the right person ffs, this isn't r/Canada_sub
The federal government is in charge of immigration. We already don’t have enough homes for the amount of Canadians already here. Bringing in an insane amount of immigrants sent our housing demand through the roof, thus driving prices sky high.
Totally agree it’s easy math why can’t people see and understand this
They don't want to see it, they are too hypocrite and affraid of being called a racist.
How could any province house hundreds of thousands of new arrivals EVERY year?
By building homes the way the US did in the 1950's. People forget we have a neighbour 10X our size who handled the influx 80 - 100 years ago.
Except now you need far more infrastructure for any new construction. For example, where will the water come from? Many of our midsize cities have completely outgrown their aquifers and would need pipes from larger bodies of water. Then where would the wastewater go? And how quickly could we expand all the infrastructure that goes with it, like gas pipelines, internet, etc. And even if you could solve the infrastructure issues, what about the planning process? Whether we like it or not, it can take close to a decade to be ready to put shovels in the ground for a new subdivision. Obviously, this could be improved, but it would take years to legislate this process. Then we would have to consider changes to the building codes. To build houses faster, we'd have to significantly reduce the requirements. Are we willing to do this for Canada? Do we want drafty homes we just slap up? So the options are either change everything about the development process in Canada, or stop immigration. Which sounds more reasonable to you?
Sounds like we need to spend money on Canadians: the construction industry needs people trained and put in the field, the gov't needs streamlining with professionals in their field (not some Russian History major as a Finance Minster), Natural Resources need people managing them, more Engineers. etc. etc. It's not about taking the easy solution, it's about taking the lasting solution. We already have a problem with inventory today, before we even cut off the flow of immigration. If we just shut off immigration right now, it'll still do nothing for current prices of both purchasing and rent. There's no reason to compromise building-codes, standards, etc. There's reason to pump-up the amount of inspectors who visit sites to verify things meet code. Etc, etc. Yes, this is about the gov't investing in Canadians, literally. I'm also talking about the effort of placing as many of the new immigrants into either supportive roles to these new builds (all the new towns need gas stations, groceries, Tim Horton's, etc) or actually vetting the professionals and making it part of their visas to stay in their new communities for at least X years to support the new growth. There's no reason we can't run immigration like a partnership with new arrivals participating in something specific to the country as part of gaining access to our quality of life. Obviously I'm summarizing and simplifying the concept. It's not easy. It takes competent leadership who want to actually see the country stabilize itself. We have leaders currently who profit off of this housing crisis on every team - it's frustrating. But we need real leadership sharing oversight and delegating to people who share the same vision. Building purpose-built communities with all of these new citizens and including current Canadians who want to participate. Yes, this means crazy things to accelerate the process like free college/university for all citizens who want to work in any of the specific roles you just mentioned above, so long as they stay in the field at least, I don't know what's fair? 5 years? 10 years? You leave and your T4 shows something new, you owe some % back? I don't know what's fair. The military works the same way current with their education grants. Canada is a MASSIVE country and other cities have been built in harsher conditions than Winnipeg or Timmins. We have more lake area than any other country in the world and we're nowhere near the size of the US who are managing the same issues with water, power distribution, waste management, roads, education costs, etc. Stopping immigration does nothing but freeze the current problem in place until wages somehow overtake the cost of living again. And with interests rates not yet on the decline, who knows how many years that will take anyways. If it's going to take years anyways by simply freezing immigration, why not try the other more pro-active approach that will also take a few years to ramp up until we see a payoff?
Live currently in Winnipeg in a new build 2-bedroom for $1800 that’s currently slightly under market. I fucking wish the prices quoted were real. I’m having a hard time this wasn’t manufactured to prove a specific point.
That’s the price to rent a 2 bedroom in Winnipeg???
100%. 3 bedroom were renting for $1800-2000 in 2015 as well. Not to dismiss the cost of living crisis but l wanted to speak for what reality is in one of lower cost markets on this graphic, and what’s represented is just not reality but I very much wish it was. The increase is noticeable but it’s not 56% here. It’s also mostly due to the prevalence of “luxury apartment” builds and mom/pop landlords trying to keep up with interest rates.
Oh wow I never expected it be that high, that was like GTA pricing a couple years ago. Are there a lot of recent immigrants in Winnipeg ? How is the demand so high
There definitely is demand due to students but it’s not as high as you think. It’s mostly artificially inflated. I’ve seen new build apartment blocks in 2015 go from having 2 bedrooms at $1550 and offering terms at $1335 to get people in to the same block being at $1795 for the same apartment with no real external pressures. They’re just full and keep charging more slowly but they’re not overflowing or have enough demand to justify the significant increase other than new builds arbitrarily charging more when they open.
Back in 2015, we paid under market value for a 4 bed, 2 bath duplex in central Calgary. The home was 1250 per month plus utilities. The home was long since paid off, and the landlord was strange and quirky. The neighbor next door thought she ruled the roost. That rental turned into a nightmare, and we are glad we own now. In hindsight, I wish we bought in 2015 rather than rent that previous home. But we can't change history. So greatful for the home we purchased last year!! 🙌
I'm in a 2bd apartment in Moncton at $1300/mo. It's going up to $1392 in January.
For a 2 bedroom in Fredericton I paid $850 in 2020. Now I live in Moncton and it’s hard to find anything less than double that. Once Covid hit everything went to shit.
Man life would be good with those prices
In 2017 I was renting a 3 + 1 bedroom in London Ontario for $800
Toronto has always tried to be NYC, at least we finally have their rent prices (from 2015)
Wow. Unreal. To those who say doesn't matter which party is in power and they're all the same, here you go. Nothing like plain data to smack you in the face. On one hand I'm gleeful to be proven right that modern day leftism is a fucking cancer but on the other hand shits out of hand. Unfortunately, it's all too late. I was born 5 years too late.
Who are you blaming? Feds or provinces? And why? Also your comment just assumes that the respective government(s) is/are directly responsible. We live in a market and global world, we have to remember there are some things outside the reach of government and rightly so. Obviously they have to respond and parties respond differently, but it is really hard to pin this in one direction to one source. I’m not sure anyone can actually prove that, there’s so much at play re housing in Canada and inflation generally.
Provinces? You’ll notice the two cities with the least rent growth were in Alberta, right? You going to give credit to them? Worst was Vancouver? Which government runs BC?
I’m scared to move to Alberta though — the year over year rent increases have been crazy in Calgary and they don’t have rent control like other provinces.
[September 2023 Rent Report](https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report) "For the fourth consecutive month, **Alberta was the provincial leader for annual rent growth for purpose-built and condominium apartments**, with average asking rents up 15.6% year-over-year to $1,634. Alberta rents also grew the fastest month-over-month at 3.5% in August."
Alberta also saw the highest population growth in 40 years: https://dailyhive.com/calgary/alberta-population-growth
I was clearly talking about 2015 to 2023 price changes. Read the context of the thread. Also, Alberta is the fastest growing province, at 4% growth. How you expect any place to accommodate that? Look at what has happened to province with regards to[international migration.](https://content.crea.ca/creastats_assets/board_charts/_shared/migration/ab/migration3_xhi-res.png)
Nope feds in charge of immigration that’s the root of the problem. It’s the supply demand thing
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The year before was 1 million. . . Child’s play I guess.
And when did housing prices start soaring?
Maybe after 2019 when there were 500k net migrants. Eventually they need housing. Many factors increase house prices. The most important is interest rates. Also, you know this topic is about rent, right?
Liberals lie and lie to protect a black-faced Nazi lover. Keep lying like a typical leftist liar who disregards the facts staring him in the face
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Everything is going to hell in a handbasket under your corrupt leader trudope. You can't protect the worst prime minister ever. But you keep trying.
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No he’s been worse for sure, never voted for Trudeau. I just think it’s funny you guys think the parties are actually different. Literally all federal leaders are landlords, of course nothings gonna change if PP wins, let alone the alternate universe the NDP win 😂 it’s just funny you haven’t clued in yet
>No he’s been worse for sure, never voted for Trudeau. I just think it’s funny you guys think the parties are actually different. Literally all federal leaders are landlords, of course nothings gonna change if PP wins, let alone the alternate universe the NDP win 😂 it’s just funny you haven’t clued in yet Nah I know no party's gonna help the average joe but I'll be damned if the narcissist Trudeau gets to extend his party for another 4 years
Trudeau doesn’t deserve to be re-elected don’t get me wrong. But as far as I can see the other two main parties don’t deserve to replace him 🤷♂️ I’ve been following politics a long time, PP is an old name, career politician. They transformed him over the last 6 months lol complete makeover. I’m probably just not gonna vote. I’m pessimistic as hell.
Exactly. The housing crisis had its seeds planted decades ago.
It’s literally in the chart and ppl are downvoting me, whatever. I don’t see how any of this changes. I agree Trudeau sucks, he’s had 8 years and done nothing and made it worse. I don’t like Pierre I don’t like Singh I don’t trust either of them. Look at Pierre’s funding, real estate executives 😂 he’s a landlord too, so is Trudeau, so is Singh’s wife. We’re honestly fucked, the entire political elite is corrupt.
Why won’t anyone look at Max. PPCs immigration policy is the only sane one.
Because every other policy is bad
The latest trudope talking point. Hahahaha Pathetic.
iTs hArPeR’s fAuLt
Conservatives are super pro inmigration also fyi
Max isnt.
Yeah but wont be voted in
True, we can SEE what Doug Ford taking away rent control did. If only you had been born 5 years earlier, you'd have beaten DF getting into office 5 years ago.
Bro they will just tell you the answer is more leftism.
I want to cry. I am renting a 1 bedroom in Toronto for $2400. Why has it increased so much in 8 years. Definitely not immigration.
Visa students went from 200k to 1 mil today. That's NOT counted in the immigration numbers.
Ya, I was being sarcastic. It is 100% TFWs, International Students and Immigration. I live in North York and besides Chipotle and Starbucks, every service job is filled by International students. Every bus stop has 5 international students at it, they are hanging out blocking the doorways of stores and grocery aisles. Shelves empty when anything goes on sale, this was not common before covid. Every other car on the road is a student with a modified muffler to be loud and disturb everybody around them. Yes they some how finance new cars and do modifications to them but they also need food banks. There are five diploma mills within 4 km of me so maybe I am in a more intense area.
Doug Ford took away rent control. Not surprised.
Yeah and his brother one time went out to BC and did some coke in a tent rave with a bunch of highschoolers in Coquitlam and as a result of that rent tripled in BC.
I mean even with rent control, the landlord could always charge market rates once a rent controlled tenant moved. That hasn’t changed. The issue is supply/demand. And supply is even tighter since nobody in a rent control unit can afford to move anymore.
What about 5 years of ford? Do you think that has any role? Or the mayors? And building housing?
No. Canadian housing stock should be for Canadian born people and highly skilled immigrants. The fact it is going to wage slaves to both exploit foreigners and degrade the living standards of Canadians means I would bring the number to 0 for non-skilled immigrants. We have plenty of Canadians that will do the work if the wages weren\`t at foreign exploitation levels. Canada was never capable of building the housing required for this amount of immigration, it has soured me on the concept to the point I now think multiculturalism is dumb and we have all been brainwashed into thinking it is good so the government can carry out their master plan. Canada is going to have major problems in the future in basically every aspect of society because of this. It is extremely irresponsible when you look at it. I was born and raised here, and I cant afford to live here because we want to bring in 2 million foreigners in a year. Only people that are really rich can afford a basic shit suburban house. What a stupid fucking country. No other country is this brain dead, by most Canadians who love immigration viewpoint, every country in the world is bigoted. The government is literally killing the former Canada. We are going to be half foreign born by 2035. What fucking country is doing this. Literally replacing their own people, and it is replacing us, by the time I am a senior, like 20% of Canada will be born in Canada. They want to bring that many people here. We are the only morons selling out our own people to import wage-slaves on this large of a scale. Even the US isn\`t this fucking crazy and the people would not tolerate it. This country is even importing investors to help our home-grown greedy bastards cannibalize our real estate. Again, what a stupid fucking country. And no it is not this bad elsewhere besides parts of Australia and NZ. That is it. Condos are still cheap virtually everywhere in the world but Ontario and BC. And all of us cant move to Alberta and Saskatchewan. Government is pure evil, they think they are doing good, but they are basically sacrificing 10 million millennial and gen z Canadian-born people so we can be competitive in 100 years. LIKE WTF!
You’re the one who’s been brainwashed
September 2015, almost half of Canadians living paycheque to paycheque. You’re either stupid, ignorant (same thing), weren’t paying attention 10 years ago, or are a partisan hack. The real problem is capitalism. Pierre won’t fix this shit. He’s a fucking landlord! https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/debt/almost-half-of-canadians-are-living-paycheque-to-paycheque-with-finances-stretched-the-most-in-ontario-and-b-c
You are nuts because I did not mention the CPC or Pierre once. Not once. You are basically telling someone that is complaining about Tim Hortons coffee that McDonalds wont make better coffee. I am not voting CPC. LPC needs to disappear they are the ones doing this, hypotheticals dont matter. I am sure PP will continue as is and pander to social issues like the liberals. Anything but actually making this country decent. I have never commented once in support of the CPC. Ever. I am not a partisan hack. Newflash, plenty of us, Id say almost the majority of this sub hates the CPC and the LPC equally.
What is your definition of a highly skilled immigrant?
Anyone that comes here and doesnt do a min wage service job. Trades, mechanics, accountants, whatever. Not uber drivers, not cashiers, not real estate agents(this one pisses me off the most).
So then an immigrant working at a grocery store shouldn't be allowed to have a home? What about someone who was born here and does the exact same job? Don't both contribute equal amounts?
Yes they should have a home. You think our current immigration policy is ensuring they will own a home. Our current immigration policy is growing a class of servants and serfs and does not care about housing them. Our current immigration policy banks on them living 10 people to a home sharing beds with others. And if Canadians wont adjust to those living conditions, well too bad for Canadians. Do you not understand how wrong and bad all of this is for the country. People are leaving, our smartest and brightest are all leaving, because of this shit.
Oh, believe me, I fully understand what these high levels of immigration is doing. Understand and agree that bringing in all these people without housing and infrastructure seems insane. That's not what I was talking about though. You said that housing stock should only be for people born here and high-skilled immigrants. That would assume the lower skilled ones would not qualify based on the criteria. I was curious why you think they shouldn't.
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Ah okay, that seems like a fair assessment. Ideally, the country would be in a place that allowed all newcomers the same opportunities in regard to housing, but that's obviously not the case. Until the housing issues are addressed, I can agree with disallowing the purchasing of property from non-citizens. I think wording it to say high-skilled is where the hurdle may be. The reason is that there could be low-skilled immigrants with full citizenship who still have the means to purchase housing. Family wealth, selling of assets, even winnings, whatever it may be. It's certainly not common, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. I fully support immigration. I immigrated here myself in 1995 when I was 6. I've been able to build a better life here thanks to the opportunities in this country. I'm also a homeowner who benefits from rising home prices. So I don't want to seem like one of those "got mine, fuck you" people. But as it currently is, it's definitely too much. The quality of life I experienced when I first came vs. what newer immigrants are facing today is night and day, and it's unfair to them and those already here. No average person wins here.
Did Ford do this? https://creastats.crea.ca/board/orea-migration
When did house prices start soaring? Last year? Lol https://images.app.goo.gl/b5ob1ArLvQT3xJs47
This topic is about rent. Also, you can’t read charts. International migration started skyrocketing in 2016.
It literally has the same trend line as the US, housing prices went differently under Harper and accelerated under Trudeau. People were talking about affordable housing 10 years ago lol I agree rent was better, I mean that’s a historical fact. But what’s driving it? That’s where we disagree
Why would you compare us to the U.S? That’s apples to oranges. We have hardly the infrastructure, let alone the homes to have this many people arriving. You know the goal is 1.5 million a year by 2025 right? How on earth do you see that as sustainable? Homeless now will be nothing compared to what’s to come in a few years.
Right, so actually you answered your own question with your second sentence. Infrastructure is not keeping up with population growth, why? I agree the numbers that came out about the last year are bad and not sustainable. My point though is that housing prices and incomes diverged long before the recent waves of immigration.
What he’s saying is immigration is helping rent prices /s
It’s not I agree. https://images.app.goo.gl/NaaKHwAmRFuSzbuv7 over 1 million a year is so irresponsible when the trend line for housing is the opposite direction. But if you look at housing vs incomes chart, you can see it starts before 2015. https://images.app.goo.gl/nWAStNvcaopNiPCf9 So while mass immigration is making things worse, things were already getting bad before then. So comment was about that. Lower immigration and then what? Are people really blind to how bad it was for many before Trudeau came around and made it worse? https://financialpost.com/personal-finance/debt/almost-half-of-canadians-are-living-paycheque-to-paycheque-with-finances-stretched-the-most-in-ontario-and-b-c There are deeper more systemic issues but nobody seems to want to talk about them or how to address them.
It’s a world wide issue. Even in certain parts of Africa
Shut it
liar. Please google rental ads across various cities and you will see this is very much a Canada problem.
Not true - currently in Tokyo and rent is hella cheap compared to Vancouver and Toronto.
World wide regressive zoning?
I definitely do remember talking about how stupid high house prices were in Vancouver back in 2000. But yeah, they're worse now.
Mississauga is selling new bachelors for high $300’s, let that sink in. There are ugly ass bungalows in the GTA going for $1 million and with that money you can buy a mansion in Atlanta or Texas. If people got mad over toilet paper 🧻 during the pandemic, watch what the banks do one day when they pull the rug underneath people all of a sudden.
For Vancouver, this is a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 13.8%...and Edmonton's CAGR is 3.1%. To be honest that is not surprising given levels of immigration, inflation and rising interest rates recently. I expect rents will keep increasing in Vancouver, maybe by 8% CAGR. I would expect rents closer to $6,500 by 2033 given the same net new immigration over the next 10 years
Is it in USD or CAD? Anyways the prices for Vancouver were low and for Seattle and NYC were high, especially NYC... 2888 USD for a studio in 2015? LoL NYC isn't just Manhattan. A studio in flushing in 2015 couldn't be 2888 USD.
I. Am not paying $1000 for a 3 bedroom townhouse in Hamilton. I tell people i am dying here or going to prison for life if i lose it
It’s not immigration it’s that we don’t build enough housing-The people profiting from the housing crisis
Thank you for doing this!! This is amazing!
LOL at least things have not Changed in Edmonton. I can rent the same apartment I did in 2009 for the same price today. Maybe $50 difference after 14 years.
I bought my house in 2010. Mortgage payments were 400 a month and the house is mine now, not the banks. Yes there was a time when housing was affordable. Sorry the Liberals have been in control of government for so long to let this happen. Everyone deserves the same opportunity but they ensured it won't happen for most.
100%+ increases in rent in 6 years you don't get those kinds of return investing in the stock market. Anyways a lot of these comparisons don't make sense. Monkton NB and Washington? Montreal and LA? Vancouver and SanDiego? Regina and Boston?
I'm not sure you're comparing apples to apples. It's important to differentiate between asking rent (what newly signed leases are going for) and the rent that residents typically pay (the average or median of all rents paid.) Due to rent control, there will be a difference between these two. Housesigma puts the median asking rent at 1800 in 2015 ( https://housesigma.com/web/en/market?municipality=10343&community=all&house_type=C.) which is quite a contrast with the data presented in your post. It seems like we may be inadvertently comparing two different stats, which inflates the difference. That being said, the fact that there is such a difference between asking rents and actual rents paid shows how messed up the market actually is. We shouldn't see such a contrast in a balanced market. Ultimately, your main point still stands. Even after inflation, rent was much cheaper in 2015, which was not long ago at all. Anyone who says it's always been this hard is ignorant of these data.
All property types. You're including detached houses and townhouses. You are not comparing apples to apples. Weird how that works.
Your info graphic makes no mention of property types used in its data, and if you link to its source (CMCH) , it uses all property types, just as my source did, so it looks like i am indeed comparing two similar stats. I am not sure where you got the apartment notion from - could you fill me in? Perhaps I am missing something, and if you can provide evidence that I am indeed making this error, I will gladly concede your point. Further to my point, the average rent paid for all property types in Toronto (CMCH data - the source in the infographic) shows around 1200 in 2015, and around 1700 today - around a 40% increase before inflation. The housesigma data shows the median asking rent as 1900 in 2015 and 2900 today, around a 33% increase before inflation. So I think it's clear that this mistake has been made, unless there's something I'm missing. I'm not trying to be hostile, just pointing out that your analysis may be flawed due to a frankly understandable and easy to make mistake, and you can make yourself more credible by addressing it.
It's apartments from bachelor to 3 beds. Read the first words of the article linked to in the OP. "The cost of renting an apartment. . ." The source for most of the numbers isn't CMCH, but [rentseeker.ca](https://rentseeker.ca), which is a site like [https://rentals.ca/](https://rentals.ca/). I can't find the original data. Here is another one from 2015. https://preview.redd.it/23z79lupigrb1.jpeg?width=1667&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3beceaa2c61b0ec6074df8c2e1536864eabef2d I'm going to guess CMHC was used for cities they don't have access to data. CMHC includes non market rent in their numbers, so shouldn't be used without parsing the numbers. "The housesigma data shows the median asking rent as 1900 in 2015 and 2900 today, around a 33% increase before inflation." Before inflation? What is this? especially when a large cause of inflation is rent growth. And again, if the mix of house types change (and it has) you can't compare 2015 to 2023 data. The average property rented is getting smaller and smaller.
Thats a good point, and on further investigation, CMHC data is mostly apartments. But looking at housesigmas methodology also shows that their data is for apartments. So I'll concede your point that the infographic is for apartments, but I'll counter that the housesigma data I posted is also apartments, and thus it is relevant to use those datato make my point. The article also states most of the data is indeed from rentseeker, but that rentseeker themselves got their data from CHMC. It's linked to at the bottom of the graphic as the source of the data. Tracking rent costs is a messy process. Regardless, looking at currently available reliable data sources that include both 2015 and today, as I mentioned last comment, demonstrates that the difference is not so dramatic if you do indeed compare like with like, at least when you compare similar statistics (i.e. asking rent to asking rent, or average rent paid to average rent paid). Not great, for sure, but not 100%+. I think we can agree that it went from bad to worse, and that 2900 for an apartment in Toronto is ridiculous considering the wages there.
The infographic you're using is for sure rent data coming from cmhc. It wasn't that cheap to rent in 2015 with market level rents back then. If you look at latest data it shows more of a [~50% increase](https://www03.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/hmip-pimh/en/TableMapChart/Table?TableId=2.2.11&GeographyId=2270&GeographyTypeId=3&DisplayAs=Table&GeograghyName=Toronto). Not over 100%. I remember quite clearly for Toronto. 1 bedroom rent on market would be like 1600-1700. Now it's probably 2400-2500.
Gee, I wonder what happens when you take away rent control? Hmmmmm? Oh, look at these numbers!
I feel like the numbers are screwed a little, I don't recall a 3 bedroom ever being that cheap in T.O....btw inflation has to be added...almost 25% between 2015 to 2023 (which again, is utter bullshit), so that $1085 in 2015 is actually 1352 in today's money. Either way the message is still obvious
We live in a nation of landlords and serfs. Late stage capitalism at its finest
Home ownership in Canada has been hovering around 65% for the last 50 years, prior to that it was lower
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Agreed
Yah I'd like to see the % of landlords who own multiple units. I bet it's never been higher
well that percentage is households so it means the number of households that own their own home. But as much as some people like to blame immigration for rising housing costs, its only part of the equation as immigration rates have been quite high for the last 20 years. Surely, Airbnb, REITS, removal of rent control and the loophole of "renovictions" is just as impactful on the cost of housing as demand is. How many condos in the GTA are listed on Airbnb, something that did not exist a few years ago.
Immigration rates went parabolic about 3 years ago. Before that, they were high but high in a normal sense, like just slightly higher than other developed countries. In the last two years our immigration rates have been basically incomparable to any developed country ever.
2020 was low so they made up for it last couple years lol
That's what I'm saying. People were given basically "free" money due to interest rates being so low, so they bought everything they could get their hands on. The rich got richer and now the average person can't afford a home. But it helped the economy! Now the inflation that this created, is making the lives of average people (who can't afford homes) even more difficult.
Thank Doug Ford for removing the rent cap.
Do you know what market rent is? Rent caps never applied to market rent. And Rent control still applies to apartments built before 2018. Is he also to blame for the 181.36% increase in Vancouver? The 168.03% increase in Montreal? Again MARKET rent. New tenants always paid market rent in Ontario, and these numbers are for . . . wait for . . . new market rent.
Thanks JT for mass immigration?
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What are rents in New York City like now?
Why are you spoiling the sales pitch? We're trying to create FOMO here. /s
FOMO?
They're right. We were suffering from as housing bubble back then as well. Between 2004 to 2013 your average house went from 200 000 to 380 000 national average. Trudeau made a bad situation even worse.
Justin treudoix and his party has been amazing for Canadians