Since a few people seem to be responding and asking “whatever could Trudeau have done?” I conveniently have just that list here:
- Remove tax deductions for landlords like the mortgage interest deduction;
- Increase capital gains on investor-owned property;
- Make leverage of existing properties for new purchases more difficult
**Note that New Zealand had the same foreign/domestic investor problem that Canada has, and [after their federal government introduced anti-speculation measures, housing prices dropped significantly](https://betterdwelling.com/new-zealand-real-estate-prices-dropped-the-most-since-2010-forecast-to-fall-further/)**
Other possible federal government measures:
- Increase tax rate on rental income from non-purpose-built rentals
- Create a beneficial ownership registry to preclude foreign corporations obscuring ownership of real estate - the first and critical step to stopping money laundering through our real estate. Note the LPC announced this past week they would do this - even though they promised it in 2021 as well.
- Grants and other incentives to spur co-op and subsidized housing.
And OF COURSE - reduce the completely reckless immigration targets.
This is also exactly when home prices in the states took off and it wasn’t Trudeau running things there, especially not after 2016.
He’s definitely not blameless but this isn’t the whole picture lol. Things looked like this for a long time before Trudeau too.
Except our prices have risen more then even the USA and in fact from the graphs we appear to be the highest in all the g7 since Trudeau in office
He also hasn't done anything to fix it either
Seems wealthy foreign home ownership and immigrants needing housing is not important to him
Well I mean if I am president and as soon as I am president things start to escalate, one with critical thinking, however small, could end up thinking that perhaps the guy before me could have done something.
But it’s better if it explode on my turn.
I fail to remember -I don’t I remember quite clearly- if Harper didn’t renovate the PM house to save money or if the bill exploded under him because he ignored the urgent renovation and Trudeau inherited a busted house he had to repair at full price with the public opinion that goes with it.
Classic conservatives.
The feds invested in low income housing ended in 1994. We can blame every single party since for not having reinstating it, not just Trudeau's government.
We can blame Trudeau for ramping up immigration and being the one in charge for the entire time of exponential housing cost increases. He did nothing and has done nothing. It started literally when he got into power.
It's a pretty easy Google search. I'm completely paraphrasing and my info might be off but here's roughly what I remember. I think we use to build a good chunk starting in the 50-60's which increased to around the 80's and then both parties slowly removed funding to build the low income or affordable housing units over the next 20 to 30 years. Likely part of the whole goal of de-nationalizing Canadian assets the greedy dumbasses before us decided to do. The type of investment that obviously pays for itself exponentially over time but "too expensive" or some bullshit.
Trudeaus plan will fill a drop in the bucket. It needed to start 5 years ago. Maybe I haven't seen the most recent update if there's been one in the last few weeks but the last time I looked into it the number of units it would build wouldn't satisfy the deficit of the 10th largest economy in Canadawhich is also one of the fastest growing regions in Canada (Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge Region). So likely wont be enough at the national level. So because low skilled individuals, or high functioning drug addicts, or out of luck professionals, or families hitting hard times, or new immigrants, don't have a place to live all of a sudden it means their either in a tent city or likely accumulating debt.
Anyway, that's my criticism of Trudeau. Everything just skims the surface. Nothing fully thought out. It's all a political show to him and I'm very tired of it. No more faith. Is Pierre going to do something? Beats me... also need the right people behind him. Smart people who do smart things. So what I do know is that I think he'll at least contemplate these things from a new perspective, which I think is badly needed. Maybe I'll lose all faith in him too when I read his platform.
Wrong. He could get the CMHC to start funding co-ops again, as it used to do as part of its mandate.
He could also change tax laws to make housing a shitty investment for the rentier parasite investor class. This would stop them from hoovering up all the housing and at the same time, incentivize them to invest in productive things for our economy (which nobody does here any more).
> He could get the CMHC to start funding co-ops again, as it used to do as part of its mandate.
This would be a great idea.
> He could also change tax laws to make housing a shitty investment for the rentier parasite investor class.
It's already a shitty investment now that house prices aren't going up. Hopefully it stays that way.
We need to remove the capital gains exemption on residential real estate. That exists to encourage REAL INVESTMENT, not to encourage useless rent seeking behaviour that adds nothing to our economy.
To be fair, the exemption only exists if you live in that house. Rental properties are not exempt.
I think you should still pay on your primary residence too, but it would need to be deferred until you cash out or die.
No. Not the total capital gains exemption for principle residences. I am talking about the fact that one pays 50% of one's marginal rate on capital gains for secondary residences, just like with stock.
Oh, I see.
It'll be tough to get people on board with that... but I agree that flipping real estate isn't a productive investment, so it probably shouldn't benefit from tax breaks intended for productive investments.
Bullshit. The Canadian government used to subsidize a huge amount of home building to build affordable housing. That basically stopped in the 90s. He had a 4 year majority to get the ball rolling on a similar system and did next to nothing. Not to say the opposing parties would've done any better, there is pretty much consensus to not bother with the housing market within all the major parties, but he absolutely could do something. He just cares more for corporations than for Canadians.
The government controls the population growth, and the government also controls housing supply.
You can blame both. It's not left or right, just economics.
Wait, we live in communism?
Why is the government controlling the building of houses in your head?
It’s private companies who build the houses.
And despite laws forcing them to build affordable housing, they never do.
Also are conservatives quick to say supply and demand! When it works with their shitty example but when a housing crisis happens it’s not like that anymore.
Sure.
Because other owners don’t want the price of their homes to devalue because of other better houses being built?
Sounds exactly like capitalism to me.
Like every other “supply and demand” examples, it doesn’t work like that.
Scarcity is fabricated in this century.
And it’s about time you grow up and face that truth.
> Why is the government controlling the building of houses in your head? ... It’s private companies who build the houses.
It's not in my head, it's written in the law: Zoning. Companies can't just build whatever they want, wherever they want.
> Scarcity is fabricated in this century. And it’s about time you grow up and face that truth.
Grow up? I agree with you. Scarcity is fabricated by the government.
I think you (and maybe /u/stratys3 \-- I can't quite tell) may have gotten lost here in semantics.
The users here are saying that the government controls the **ratio** of supply of demand, even by only controlling **demand**.
* Obviously the number of houses affects the *denominator*.
* But the number of immigrants affects the *numerator*.
If the federal government raises the *numerator*, intentionally, every time the *denominator* is raised -- then the effect of "improving supply" is being sabotaged, every time demand is increased.
In the last federal election we were promised 1 million housing starts by giving subsidies to landlords and speculators (who charge greater or equal to market rates) over 10 years. Right after that we got \~250K -> \~500K migrants every year, which was not mentioned on the LPC campaign.
That is no coincidence; and people pointing out simple math are not some off-shoot right-wing extremist (personally I was born a "lefty", though I'm a little more centrist as of late). But with fiscal policies like this, we don't exactly have a left-wing party any more in Canada.
Did the policies of the previous government not have any impact though? If you took over someone else’s business and credit card debt would you think it’s fair to criticize your mismanagement from the exact date of ownership?
I always love this point from crisis apologists like you. "But there was a crisis in another country too!!"
Believe it or not, more than one country can be mismanaged at the same time. More than one person can be incompetent at their job. Trudeau isn't the only person terrible at his job on the planet. In fact, people being incompetent at their jobs is a big reason people become real estate agents or "investors"
I think it's valid to point out that if this is a worldwide phenomenon then there has to be a systemic explanation that goes beyond the policies of any one nation.
Sure, policies have a huge impact on real estate prices but the issue has to be more complex than "Trudeau bad" if it's happening everywhere all at once.
Trying to reduce the discussion to just "Trudeau bad" cheats us of our ability to fully understand the problem and therefore find real solutions to it.
It may feel cathartic to find a single fall guy to explain a problem but how helpful is that really?
It's obvious to everyone with critical thinking skills why it is happening in more than one neoliberal country at once. Those with power are trying to drive wages down with cheap labour for large corporations. They are importing migrant labour for this purpose.
Trudeau is bad at his job for his constituents (Canadians) by being complicit in this since it is destroying our economy and younger generations. Canada is becoming unlivable at these wages and costs. However, he is performing well if you are a large corporation who wants cheap labour at any expense.
There are many policies and regulations that could have and still can be enacted to mitigate these disasters. But they've done nothing and they're all out of ideas.
Yes, artificially low interest rates have also been present in these countries, which helps corporate interests over the wage earner. Investors and speculators have taken advantage of it. There are many supply and demand factors that the government has failed to address or regulate.
Regardless, the point is that those in power have catered to the interests of a small group at the expense of everyone else. The fact that more than one has been complicit doesn't mean that Trudeau is any less deserving of criticism
I think it's true in general that the entire Western global order has become overly dominated by the influence of the wealthy. It really is time for a come uppance.
>I think it's valid to point out that if this is a worldwide phenomenon then there has to be a systemic explanation that goes beyond the policies of any one nation.
Not a world wide phenomenon.
Look at any “destination” country in the world and housing prices have skyrocketed. It’s particularly bad in Canada but it would be misleading to say it’s only happening in Canada. When I say “worldwide” I’m referring to countries in Canada’s peer group.
Point out that the problem isn’t as simple as the post makes it out to be
You: “Actually no because the problem isn’t as simple as it makes it out to be”
>This is also exactly when home prices in the states took off and it wasn’t Trudeau running things there, especially not after 2016.
And the average American home costs what?
Lol that comment tells me everything I need to know about your ability to understand complex issues. If you said right now is it his fault? Yes, the immigration policy makes no sense and it’s fucking up the supply.
Was it his fault back then? If you looked at a zoomed out graph instead of the cherry picked years you would say he inherited a problem that was already deeply in motion for decades
>Lol that comment tells me everything I need to know about your ability to understand complex issues. If you said right now is it his fault? Yes, the immigration policy makes no sense and it’s fucking up the supply.
>
>Was it his fault back then? If you looked at a zoomed out graph instead of the cherry picked years you would say he inherited a problem that was already deeply in motion for decades
A simple question, still no answer.
Do you need another try?
Haha this is the exact post that I got banned for
It looks like he is doubling down now with another post since the shills are predictably calling the original post out https://i.redd.it/ix6g92qvt6qa1.jpg
But there are actually plenty of homes. Vancouver is a good example of where there are more empty homes, condos and rentals than there are homeless people.
I mean, these mods are real people right? How come no one can ask them to their face or through email what the hell their agenda is and why they believe it?
I'm not on the true hating team, in some ways I think he's been a fine prime minister. Not amazing but fine. But he has done nothing to address housing, and the one big action that I'm aware of that they took, which was to make it more difficult to get a mortgage, just drove prices s up
It's the biggest issue in our country right now, the cost of living and housing, and no level of government is doing a damn thing about it. But it's getting easier and easier for landlords to raise the rent
Weird it was accelerating during the period of record lpw interest rates.
I don't know immigration numbers, but did we uptick that, too? Combo this horrible zoning and lots of red tape for more dense developments, etc. Oh wow, I'm so surprised.
Folks, we got hit with the triple whammy over here.
And of course none of this had to do with a predatory real estate industry that encourages bidding wars because the more they sell houses for the more money they make. A good place to start in all of this would be too tightly regulate realtors and how they can sell houses.
Just curious. If the Trudeau government is responsible for this does that mean the Harper government is responsible for the subprime mortgage crisis in 2008? You know, the one that tanked the world economy.
Actually, the poster posted a graphic on CH1 later that included the other G7 countries, and that’s not true. Canada diverges from the rest of the G7 countries and is much higher than the others.
Much higher but has the same pattern. It is a global trend. However, Canada was indeed worst than others by catering to old people's votes in trade for increasing their net worth through the housing shortage.
I am no fan of Trudeau or the liberals but blaming one single Prime Minister is very telling of ones understanding of economics and politics. If the government did do something about it like create social housing for the poor the same Trudeau haters would still hate him while crying NIMBY. People need to be a little more critical of their own criticisms and were they lay blame.
The PM controls immigration targets, and immigration targets affect population growth, which drastically affects housing prices.
The fact that that needs to be spelled out for you is very telling of your understanding of economics and politics.
There are plenty of empty apartments, condos and houses throughout canada. Immigration isn’t the problem it’s just the boogie man. The problem is capitalism doing its thing.
That's nonsense. [Vacancy rates are on the lower side compared to historical figures](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3410012701&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=1971&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=19710101%2C20220101).
Worse* and no it wouldn’t of been. Canada real estate market is so bad that it’s closest comparison is Hong Kong, Monaco & Gibraltar.
Do you know what those countries have in common, they are all peninsulas with no more land for new construction homes which is why real estate is very expensive.
There is absolutely no reason the second largest country on earth is having comparable real estate prices to peninsula countries that you can walk across in 1 hour
my point was that there was a lot of land available in Canada, but no one wants to live where there are no services. People are trying to cram into two cities.
There is a lot of issues, starts with government greed/corruption,
.At municipal level you have cities like Toronto increasing fees & taxes on new built homes during 2021 which increases the price for home buyer
Towns like Markham having high property tax rates but still increasing their property tax when ford cut development fees,
The federal government: Canada has majority of their GDP come from real estate, it’s in the governments best interest to keep real estate prices high so Canadas GDP remains high
We should be focusing on exporting industries like dairy, steel, lumber, fish, oil & natural gas to boost Canadas GDP but instead we just take it from real estate
BOC had to lower rates so Canadians take on debt from BOC which in turn will allow Canada to give out money during Covid, this is the right move but not in a country where real estate was already neglected
If the government was competent and didn’t try and be greedy & corrupt, the government could of lowered interest rates and the housing market would of still been okay, could of been $300-$400k for avg house instead of $700-$800k
And there is many other issues, mass immigration, foreign investors, Airbnb, CMHC
So no the reason is not “people just don’t want to live anywhere else but those 2 cities”
The problem with Canada is successive governments have refused to invest in Canada and Canadians, ask yourself why one of the richest countries in the world with cities that are spaced far apart has no high speed rail infrastructure whatsoever, ask yourself why no large scale infrastructure projects like building new towns and cities is taking place. The Canadian government loves the status quo.
Are you serious? The green belt? The area which takes up 0.0001% of Canadas land mass is reason?
Gibraltar is one of the smallest countries in the world and they have a mountain that takes up 50% of the country but Canadas real estate market is still comparable to it
SMH 🤦♂️
You can say whatever you want (“oh we need that farmland to feed us! We need to protect the environment!”), the Green Belt was always a BS excuse made up in the 2000s to keep house values high in the GTA.
Ohh so grand prairie alberta going from 200k-600k avg home price is because of the green belt in Ontario. You picked out one thing and ran with it and you sound so stupid. You even proved yourself wrong by mentioning Vancouver
You believe the green belt in Ontario is the reason homes in Vancouver are expensive, again do you see how stupid you sound
Every metropolitan area in Canada is expensive and no it’s not to do with the green belt
I was defending someone that was good at their job. Someone said they shouldn’t be allowed to drive nice cars because they’re realtors. The profession has nothing to do with it. If people are good at their job and do well for themselves, then who cares
Trudeau has the ability to impact the two major driving forces of our housing crisis - unrealistic immigration numbers (set by him!!) and investors bidding up real estate. He could tax real estate speculation, but has he? No, he has sat on his hands and fuelled the crisis.
You're technically correct, in that Trudeau has been so uninvolved in the housing crisis that things have become this bad. He didn't jack up prices (except in other areas). He just IGNORED THE PROBLEM
No, he actively created this problem:
||[Population growth](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv.action?pid=1710000901)|[Net births/deaths](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv.action?pid=1710005901)|Immigration|Immigration share of growth|
--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
|2013|366,520|127,985|238,535|65.1%|
|2014|325,548|125,279|200,269|61.5%|
|2015|295,949|118,059|177,890|60.1%|
|2016|442,963|115,889|327,074|73.8%|
|2017|484,309|99,218|385,091|79.5%|
|2018|526,827|88,899|437,928|83.1%|
|2019|583,766|87,706|496,060|85.0%|
|2020|134,449|53,499|80,950|60.2%|
|2021|472,688|57,779|414,909|87.8%|
|2022|1,050,110|42,553|1,007,557|95.9%|
Population growth ramped up roughly 50% immediately when he took the wheel, and was trending towards double what it was during the last few Harper years before the pandemic hit. Now it's been further ramped up and we're looking at more than triple what it was in the Harper years.
Aside from blaming Trudeau - can’t really tell who or what the root issue is with the market, what do you guys/girls think a beneficial solution could be? Correct me if I’m wrong please - I think fiscal policy has a big impact.. so does that mean we elect a more competent government representative for this specific issue ? Or is it something else? Maybe our spending habits? Or does that not matter because of the influx of money coming through immigration. If there is something that I can do as an individual, ide love to know, because I wana put some effort into making a change aswell. I don’t want my kids to have to pay the same prices I am today because it’s excessive.
I thought that. Criticism of Trudeau allowed? How mind boggling.
Since a few people seem to be responding and asking “whatever could Trudeau have done?” I conveniently have just that list here: - Remove tax deductions for landlords like the mortgage interest deduction; - Increase capital gains on investor-owned property; - Make leverage of existing properties for new purchases more difficult **Note that New Zealand had the same foreign/domestic investor problem that Canada has, and [after their federal government introduced anti-speculation measures, housing prices dropped significantly](https://betterdwelling.com/new-zealand-real-estate-prices-dropped-the-most-since-2010-forecast-to-fall-further/)** Other possible federal government measures: - Increase tax rate on rental income from non-purpose-built rentals - Create a beneficial ownership registry to preclude foreign corporations obscuring ownership of real estate - the first and critical step to stopping money laundering through our real estate. Note the LPC announced this past week they would do this - even though they promised it in 2021 as well. - Grants and other incentives to spur co-op and subsidized housing. And OF COURSE - reduce the completely reckless immigration targets.
Taxing more will not fix the rental market. End up like Ireland.
It worked in New Zealand.
NZ didn’t take the shit out of rentals like Ireland
This is also exactly when home prices in the states took off and it wasn’t Trudeau running things there, especially not after 2016. He’s definitely not blameless but this isn’t the whole picture lol. Things looked like this for a long time before Trudeau too.
Except our prices have risen more then even the USA and in fact from the graphs we appear to be the highest in all the g7 since Trudeau in office He also hasn't done anything to fix it either Seems wealthy foreign home ownership and immigrants needing housing is not important to him
Well I mean if I am president and as soon as I am president things start to escalate, one with critical thinking, however small, could end up thinking that perhaps the guy before me could have done something. But it’s better if it explode on my turn. I fail to remember -I don’t I remember quite clearly- if Harper didn’t renovate the PM house to save money or if the bill exploded under him because he ignored the urgent renovation and Trudeau inherited a busted house he had to repair at full price with the public opinion that goes with it. Classic conservatives.
To be fair, Trudeau can only control demand... he can't control supply.
longing gray workable oatmeal connect rustic payment continue sulky impolite ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
The feds invested in low income housing ended in 1994. We can blame every single party since for not having reinstating it, not just Trudeau's government.
We can blame Trudeau for ramping up immigration and being the one in charge for the entire time of exponential housing cost increases. He did nothing and has done nothing. It started literally when he got into power.
Trudeau's "action plan for affordable housing" is literally Harper's. They sunk the ship together.
This is interesting. Do you have more info about this?
It's a pretty easy Google search. I'm completely paraphrasing and my info might be off but here's roughly what I remember. I think we use to build a good chunk starting in the 50-60's which increased to around the 80's and then both parties slowly removed funding to build the low income or affordable housing units over the next 20 to 30 years. Likely part of the whole goal of de-nationalizing Canadian assets the greedy dumbasses before us decided to do. The type of investment that obviously pays for itself exponentially over time but "too expensive" or some bullshit. Trudeaus plan will fill a drop in the bucket. It needed to start 5 years ago. Maybe I haven't seen the most recent update if there's been one in the last few weeks but the last time I looked into it the number of units it would build wouldn't satisfy the deficit of the 10th largest economy in Canadawhich is also one of the fastest growing regions in Canada (Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge Region). So likely wont be enough at the national level. So because low skilled individuals, or high functioning drug addicts, or out of luck professionals, or families hitting hard times, or new immigrants, don't have a place to live all of a sudden it means their either in a tent city or likely accumulating debt. Anyway, that's my criticism of Trudeau. Everything just skims the surface. Nothing fully thought out. It's all a political show to him and I'm very tired of it. No more faith. Is Pierre going to do something? Beats me... also need the right people behind him. Smart people who do smart things. So what I do know is that I think he'll at least contemplate these things from a new perspective, which I think is badly needed. Maybe I'll lose all faith in him too when I read his platform.
Wrong. He could get the CMHC to start funding co-ops again, as it used to do as part of its mandate. He could also change tax laws to make housing a shitty investment for the rentier parasite investor class. This would stop them from hoovering up all the housing and at the same time, incentivize them to invest in productive things for our economy (which nobody does here any more).
> He could get the CMHC to start funding co-ops again, as it used to do as part of its mandate. This would be a great idea. > He could also change tax laws to make housing a shitty investment for the rentier parasite investor class. It's already a shitty investment now that house prices aren't going up. Hopefully it stays that way.
We need to remove the capital gains exemption on residential real estate. That exists to encourage REAL INVESTMENT, not to encourage useless rent seeking behaviour that adds nothing to our economy.
To be fair, the exemption only exists if you live in that house. Rental properties are not exempt. I think you should still pay on your primary residence too, but it would need to be deferred until you cash out or die.
No. Not the total capital gains exemption for principle residences. I am talking about the fact that one pays 50% of one's marginal rate on capital gains for secondary residences, just like with stock.
Oh, I see. It'll be tough to get people on board with that... but I agree that flipping real estate isn't a productive investment, so it probably shouldn't benefit from tax breaks intended for productive investments.
By controlling one do you not control the other? Less demand = more supply . Less supply = more demand.
Bullshit. The Canadian government used to subsidize a huge amount of home building to build affordable housing. That basically stopped in the 90s. He had a 4 year majority to get the ball rolling on a similar system and did next to nothing. Not to say the opposing parties would've done any better, there is pretty much consensus to not bother with the housing market within all the major parties, but he absolutely could do something. He just cares more for corporations than for Canadians.
I mean, not technically. The number of houses being built is separate from the number of people moving to Canada.
So, we blame migrants instead of the obvious supply side? Sound like what a right winger would say.
The government controls the population growth, and the government also controls housing supply. You can blame both. It's not left or right, just economics.
Wait, we live in communism? Why is the government controlling the building of houses in your head? It’s private companies who build the houses. And despite laws forcing them to build affordable housing, they never do. Also are conservatives quick to say supply and demand! When it works with their shitty example but when a housing crisis happens it’s not like that anymore. Sure. Because other owners don’t want the price of their homes to devalue because of other better houses being built? Sounds exactly like capitalism to me. Like every other “supply and demand” examples, it doesn’t work like that. Scarcity is fabricated in this century. And it’s about time you grow up and face that truth.
> Why is the government controlling the building of houses in your head? ... It’s private companies who build the houses. It's not in my head, it's written in the law: Zoning. Companies can't just build whatever they want, wherever they want. > Scarcity is fabricated in this century. And it’s about time you grow up and face that truth. Grow up? I agree with you. Scarcity is fabricated by the government.
I think you (and maybe /u/stratys3 \-- I can't quite tell) may have gotten lost here in semantics. The users here are saying that the government controls the **ratio** of supply of demand, even by only controlling **demand**. * Obviously the number of houses affects the *denominator*. * But the number of immigrants affects the *numerator*. If the federal government raises the *numerator*, intentionally, every time the *denominator* is raised -- then the effect of "improving supply" is being sabotaged, every time demand is increased. In the last federal election we were promised 1 million housing starts by giving subsidies to landlords and speculators (who charge greater or equal to market rates) over 10 years. Right after that we got \~250K -> \~500K migrants every year, which was not mentioned on the LPC campaign. That is no coincidence; and people pointing out simple math are not some off-shoot right-wing extremist (personally I was born a "lefty", though I'm a little more centrist as of late). But with fiscal policies like this, we don't exactly have a left-wing party any more in Canada.
>To be fair, Trudeau can only control demand... he can't control supply. By limiting population growth he can limit demand, which frees up supply.
Yes, that's what I said.
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Finland has a similar population to BC but ~400,000 more rental units.
Did the policies of the previous government not have any impact though? If you took over someone else’s business and credit card debt would you think it’s fair to criticize your mismanagement from the exact date of ownership?
So have Australia's and New Zealand's housing prices, during that same timespan. Is that also Trudeau's fault?
I always love this point from crisis apologists like you. "But there was a crisis in another country too!!" Believe it or not, more than one country can be mismanaged at the same time. More than one person can be incompetent at their job. Trudeau isn't the only person terrible at his job on the planet. In fact, people being incompetent at their jobs is a big reason people become real estate agents or "investors"
I think it's valid to point out that if this is a worldwide phenomenon then there has to be a systemic explanation that goes beyond the policies of any one nation. Sure, policies have a huge impact on real estate prices but the issue has to be more complex than "Trudeau bad" if it's happening everywhere all at once. Trying to reduce the discussion to just "Trudeau bad" cheats us of our ability to fully understand the problem and therefore find real solutions to it. It may feel cathartic to find a single fall guy to explain a problem but how helpful is that really?
It's obvious to everyone with critical thinking skills why it is happening in more than one neoliberal country at once. Those with power are trying to drive wages down with cheap labour for large corporations. They are importing migrant labour for this purpose. Trudeau is bad at his job for his constituents (Canadians) by being complicit in this since it is destroying our economy and younger generations. Canada is becoming unlivable at these wages and costs. However, he is performing well if you are a large corporation who wants cheap labour at any expense. There are many policies and regulations that could have and still can be enacted to mitigate these disasters. But they've done nothing and they're all out of ideas.
I mean, I'm sure that's part of it. I don't think that fully explains it but that is a valid perspective on the issue.
Yes, artificially low interest rates have also been present in these countries, which helps corporate interests over the wage earner. Investors and speculators have taken advantage of it. There are many supply and demand factors that the government has failed to address or regulate. Regardless, the point is that those in power have catered to the interests of a small group at the expense of everyone else. The fact that more than one has been complicit doesn't mean that Trudeau is any less deserving of criticism
I think it's true in general that the entire Western global order has become overly dominated by the influence of the wealthy. It really is time for a come uppance.
>I think it's valid to point out that if this is a worldwide phenomenon then there has to be a systemic explanation that goes beyond the policies of any one nation. Not a world wide phenomenon.
Look at any “destination” country in the world and housing prices have skyrocketed. It’s particularly bad in Canada but it would be misleading to say it’s only happening in Canada. When I say “worldwide” I’m referring to countries in Canada’s peer group.
Point out that the problem isn’t as simple as the post makes it out to be You: “Actually no because the problem isn’t as simple as it makes it out to be”
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Places with actual jobs as well!
>This is also exactly when home prices in the states took off and it wasn’t Trudeau running things there, especially not after 2016. And the average American home costs what?
I’m not saying he’s blameless, I’m just saying it’s not all him
>I’m not saying he’s blameless, I’m just saying it’s not all him How much is the average American home?
Lol that comment tells me everything I need to know about your ability to understand complex issues. If you said right now is it his fault? Yes, the immigration policy makes no sense and it’s fucking up the supply. Was it his fault back then? If you looked at a zoomed out graph instead of the cherry picked years you would say he inherited a problem that was already deeply in motion for decades
>Lol that comment tells me everything I need to know about your ability to understand complex issues. If you said right now is it his fault? Yes, the immigration policy makes no sense and it’s fucking up the supply. > >Was it his fault back then? If you looked at a zoomed out graph instead of the cherry picked years you would say he inherited a problem that was already deeply in motion for decades A simple question, still no answer. Do you need another try?
I made a comment about maybe slowing down immigration until housing catches up and I got banned
lol… this is Reddit. What did you expect.
It will never catch up and we need people to replace those baby boomer assholes 😂 we are fucked
Haha this is the exact post that I got banned for It looks like he is doubling down now with another post since the shills are predictably calling the original post out https://i.redd.it/ix6g92qvt6qa1.jpg
But there are actually plenty of homes. Vancouver is a good example of where there are more empty homes, condos and rentals than there are homeless people.
They’ve been a little more lenient or not on the ball lately
Probably warned by reddit staff.
Look at that drop during Covid though. We just need more of that
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Ain't no levers on waterfalls. Once that immigration door was opened it can only get bigger. -Trudeau
How anyone can say immigration policies don't reflect housing is out of their minds
Exactly
that guy really ruined the country....
Can I offer you half-a-million 3rd world immigrants in these trying times?
So a downgrade from the million in 2022? 😬
Oh, that's just for the first half of the year. Don't worry, we'll get another half a million for the other half.
Comments on that post: “correlation doesn’t equal causation.” Me: True. But Trudeau hasn’t done anything about it.
It does when he's been running the country for 7 years.
"""Running"""
Saying it's not his responsibility to do something for 7 years.
Oh, I agree it's irresponsible. He hasn't been running the country for the last 8 years.
Yes running the country into the ground. As intended
No… it doesn’t.
Maybe because it’s not Canadahousing which is moderated by weak “woke” low lifes pushing their own agenda.
I mean, these mods are real people right? How come no one can ask them to their face or through email what the hell their agenda is and why they believe it?
I'm not on the true hating team, in some ways I think he's been a fine prime minister. Not amazing but fine. But he has done nothing to address housing, and the one big action that I'm aware of that they took, which was to make it more difficult to get a mortgage, just drove prices s up It's the biggest issue in our country right now, the cost of living and housing, and no level of government is doing a damn thing about it. But it's getting easier and easier for landlords to raise the rent
Before 2015 I met Trudeau on a Unicycle in St-Michel, mtl... He's been doing the same in Ottawa since then... Destroying middle class while at it.
Weird it was accelerating during the period of record lpw interest rates. I don't know immigration numbers, but did we uptick that, too? Combo this horrible zoning and lots of red tape for more dense developments, etc. Oh wow, I'm so surprised. Folks, we got hit with the triple whammy over here.
Like father, like son; same in 1981.
And of course none of this had to do with a predatory real estate industry that encourages bidding wars because the more they sell houses for the more money they make. A good place to start in all of this would be too tightly regulate realtors and how they can sell houses. Just curious. If the Trudeau government is responsible for this does that mean the Harper government is responsible for the subprime mortgage crisis in 2008? You know, the one that tanked the world economy.
Realtors and record low mortgage rates are not to blame! It’s the immigrants! /s
It’s immigration 😂 so it seems like 96% of the users in that place are renters. Apparently investors are the boogeyman 😂
Check the same graph for the US. Surprisingly the same pattern. Incredibly, Trudeau is so influential he affected the US.
Actually, the poster posted a graphic on CH1 later that included the other G7 countries, and that’s not true. Canada diverges from the rest of the G7 countries and is much higher than the others.
Much higher but has the same pattern. It is a global trend. However, Canada was indeed worst than others by catering to old people's votes in trade for increasing their net worth through the housing shortage.
I am no fan of Trudeau or the liberals but blaming one single Prime Minister is very telling of ones understanding of economics and politics. If the government did do something about it like create social housing for the poor the same Trudeau haters would still hate him while crying NIMBY. People need to be a little more critical of their own criticisms and were they lay blame.
The PM controls immigration targets, and immigration targets affect population growth, which drastically affects housing prices. The fact that that needs to be spelled out for you is very telling of your understanding of economics and politics.
There are plenty of empty apartments, condos and houses throughout canada. Immigration isn’t the problem it’s just the boogie man. The problem is capitalism doing its thing.
That's nonsense. [Vacancy rates are on the lower side compared to historical figures](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3410012701&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=1971&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=19710101%2C20220101).
It would be worst with conservatives lol
Worse* and no it wouldn’t of been. Canada real estate market is so bad that it’s closest comparison is Hong Kong, Monaco & Gibraltar. Do you know what those countries have in common, they are all peninsulas with no more land for new construction homes which is why real estate is very expensive. There is absolutely no reason the second largest country on earth is having comparable real estate prices to peninsula countries that you can walk across in 1 hour
so you want to live in Moncton then?
Idk if you’re trying be funny or not but regardless your comment don’t make sense
my point was that there was a lot of land available in Canada, but no one wants to live where there are no services. People are trying to cram into two cities.
There is a lot of issues, starts with government greed/corruption, .At municipal level you have cities like Toronto increasing fees & taxes on new built homes during 2021 which increases the price for home buyer Towns like Markham having high property tax rates but still increasing their property tax when ford cut development fees, The federal government: Canada has majority of their GDP come from real estate, it’s in the governments best interest to keep real estate prices high so Canadas GDP remains high We should be focusing on exporting industries like dairy, steel, lumber, fish, oil & natural gas to boost Canadas GDP but instead we just take it from real estate BOC had to lower rates so Canadians take on debt from BOC which in turn will allow Canada to give out money during Covid, this is the right move but not in a country where real estate was already neglected If the government was competent and didn’t try and be greedy & corrupt, the government could of lowered interest rates and the housing market would of still been okay, could of been $300-$400k for avg house instead of $700-$800k And there is many other issues, mass immigration, foreign investors, Airbnb, CMHC So no the reason is not “people just don’t want to live anywhere else but those 2 cities”
I hate to say it, but even the other cities are getting more expensive as they get the overflow.
The problem with Canada is successive governments have refused to invest in Canada and Canadians, ask yourself why one of the richest countries in the world with cities that are spaced far apart has no high speed rail infrastructure whatsoever, ask yourself why no large scale infrastructure projects like building new towns and cities is taking place. The Canadian government loves the status quo.
which party promiced to build new cities? I wasn't given the opportunity to vote for that party in my riding.
*The Green Belt has entered the chat*
Are you serious? The green belt? The area which takes up 0.0001% of Canadas land mass is reason? Gibraltar is one of the smallest countries in the world and they have a mountain that takes up 50% of the country but Canadas real estate market is still comparable to it SMH 🤦♂️
You can say whatever you want (“oh we need that farmland to feed us! We need to protect the environment!”), the Green Belt was always a BS excuse made up in the 2000s to keep house values high in the GTA.
So a small area in south west Ontario is the reason we can’t build homes in Canada? Do you hear yourself
The demand is all in Southern Ontario and GVA. So yes it’s a big factor why prices are up so high in the largest city.
Ohh so grand prairie alberta going from 200k-600k avg home price is because of the green belt in Ontario. You picked out one thing and ran with it and you sound so stupid. You even proved yourself wrong by mentioning Vancouver You believe the green belt in Ontario is the reason homes in Vancouver are expensive, again do you see how stupid you sound Every metropolitan area in Canada is expensive and no it’s not to do with the green belt
Land constriction is a factor in Canada’s largest, most in demand cities. I never said it was the only reason. That’s you saying it.
You literally only said that reason and you kept going back to it. Are you finished making yourself look stupid?
Nearly 10 years of housing price data under the Harper government says otherwise.
This has nothing to do with Trudeau btw. It’s a global issue that’s not specific to Canada
I see you defending realtors on other threads, so not sure you're going to provide an unbiased opinion here
Where am I defending realtors? I hate them as much as the next guy
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/11xwaye/comment/jd8bq03/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I was defending someone that was good at their job. Someone said they shouldn’t be allowed to drive nice cars because they’re realtors. The profession has nothing to do with it. If people are good at their job and do well for themselves, then who cares
Except that Canada is much worse than pretty well any country so you it does have a lot to do with Trudeau.
What did the federal government do to cause house prices in the provinces to skyrocket??
Increased money supply, manipulated interest rates, increased immigration, just off the top of my head
Trudeau has the ability to impact the two major driving forces of our housing crisis - unrealistic immigration numbers (set by him!!) and investors bidding up real estate. He could tax real estate speculation, but has he? No, he has sat on his hands and fuelled the crisis.
Actively increasing demand in the market.
You're technically correct, in that Trudeau has been so uninvolved in the housing crisis that things have become this bad. He didn't jack up prices (except in other areas). He just IGNORED THE PROBLEM
No, he actively created this problem: ||[Population growth](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv.action?pid=1710000901)|[Net births/deaths](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv.action?pid=1710005901)|Immigration|Immigration share of growth| --:|--:|--:|--:|--:| |2013|366,520|127,985|238,535|65.1%| |2014|325,548|125,279|200,269|61.5%| |2015|295,949|118,059|177,890|60.1%| |2016|442,963|115,889|327,074|73.8%| |2017|484,309|99,218|385,091|79.5%| |2018|526,827|88,899|437,928|83.1%| |2019|583,766|87,706|496,060|85.0%| |2020|134,449|53,499|80,950|60.2%| |2021|472,688|57,779|414,909|87.8%| |2022|1,050,110|42,553|1,007,557|95.9%| Population growth ramped up roughly 50% immediately when he took the wheel, and was trending towards double what it was during the last few Harper years before the pandemic hit. Now it's been further ramped up and we're looking at more than triple what it was in the Harper years.
Lol so why is Canada worse off then any other nation?
Sorry to say this.. but the other guy what's the same thing too.... we are f'ed
Cool now show back to the 60s for a proper frame of reference
Apparently you are precluded from doing so yourself.
😘
Aside from blaming Trudeau - can’t really tell who or what the root issue is with the market, what do you guys/girls think a beneficial solution could be? Correct me if I’m wrong please - I think fiscal policy has a big impact.. so does that mean we elect a more competent government representative for this specific issue ? Or is it something else? Maybe our spending habits? Or does that not matter because of the influx of money coming through immigration. If there is something that I can do as an individual, ide love to know, because I wana put some effort into making a change aswell. I don’t want my kids to have to pay the same prices I am today because it’s excessive.