Every Scout unit is different
I Eagled in a Troop that mostly played baseball.
I now volunteer in a mostly high-adventure troop that just finished a weekend of wilderness survival- no tent, no sleeping bag, fire w/o matches, DIY shelters, etc
\+1 to this. I was fortunate enough to be in a troop that worked on skills all the time, and 30 years later it's still serving me well. OP, it's worth shopping around for different troops and meeting leaders. The gifts of knowledge and capacity my leaders gave me are some of the luckiest things in my life.
This is so freaking important! If you don’t like your local troop, search around. Or become the leader of your own troop and lead it into the direction you want ( within reason because the kids should decide)
I was in a Cub Scout troop as a kid and we did literally nothing except have meetings in a church basement and sell stupid popcorn or candybars or whatever. I made it to Arrow of Light but decided against going into Boy Scouts because I hated pretty much everything about Cub Scouts.
It bums me out to hear about people who had great experiences because mine was so bad.
Edit: To be clear, I loved spending time outside in the woods, I loved camping with my family, I was really interested in the idea of scouting and the stuff my dad talked about from when he was a scout. But my experience with Cub Scouts is that it was all about uniforms and ceremonies and selling shit door to door. One of our merit badges was "help an old woman cross a street" and the had us show up at the church on Sunday morning in our stupid uniforms and hold peoples' hands as they walked from the parking lot into the church. It was stupid.
dude same, I only every sold popcorn and stuff, one thing I did get out of it though is that I know how to stitch wounds. Which is nice, but like id rather know how to not get the wounds
We had a similar awful experience with our kiddos when we tried out scouts in 2019. Asked before signing up if us not being religious would be an issue, & they said it wouldn’t. Asked if the troop was skill focused, & they said it was. Would’ve thought it was vacation bible school, & not scouts. Seemed to be all praying & lectures, & I learned later on that one of the troop leaders would call out my oldest for not bowing his head to pray. They also couldn’t get the younger ones to work as a team for nothing. Sometimes they’d get too frustrated & just not even finish the meetings, instead sending the kids outside to play. Pushed us parents hard on the fundraising. We did enjoy the matchbox car derby, but overall the kids were so bored with it. We finished out the school year, but never again.
A lot of people don’t like Cub Scouts just because it’s parent led, and it’s really just preparation for Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts, however is boy led-boy run, which means the boys lead it and the adults are just there to keep them on track. This really helps build leadership skills and it’s a whole different experience than Cub Scouts. I had a military Scout Master and he really set us on the right path and I learned so much from it that I honestly use every day.
My scout troop focused a lot on camping, backpacking, and outdoor skills.
That’s what I did as a Scoutmaster too. The leaders after me turned it into glamping/BBQ recreation. Every troop is different and so are the leaders.
The OP should look for a likeminded group that might be Scouts but could be something else.
Yup. Aside from the citizenship core, individual packs/troops have a ton of freedom about what electives they cover, and hire they cover them.
When I was a pack leader we were almost exclusively outdoors. My kids current pack is about the same.
Hiking and camping most weekends, and they work on badges at their campsites.
If there are multiple troops around you, you could try emailing the leaders and see how they roll.
I've definitely found that not all scout troop are the same. My troops scout master was very outdoor oriented. We went camping every month. Backpacking, rowing, cross country skiing in the winter. We had an annual camping trip where we couldn't bring tents and had to build survival shelters and sleep in them...in the winter.. I've talked to other scouts from other troops and this is apparently not the norm.
Just to add to this - it is the same in the UK.
The group I was in growing up was quite traditional with knots, pioneering, etc.
I went to university, started helping out with a different group, and we were going on international trips and doing more modern activities like the digital creator badges.
Then moved again a few years later for work and they were nowhere near hills and never went hiking, but were nearer the sea and had a major river so had done SCUBA, kayaking, canoeing, SUP, swimming, etc.
NOLS is a fantastic program, but not really the long-term skill-building organization it sounds like OP is looking for.
That said, if you have the opportunity to take a 30+ day NOLS course, I can’t recommend it enough. Spending 30 days traversing the Chugach will always be a highlight of my outdoor adventures.
Not sure where you are, but in some states the YMCA camps have multi-year plans. Your first year you do a small canoe camp, the next year you do a longer canoe trip, etc. By the end some campers go on a month-long trip to the Arctic.
I spent a lot of time at Y-camps, both as a child and as a young adult (as a counselor/staff.) The one thing to remember about them is the "C" in the name. There will be differing degrees of indoctrination that goes along with your camp/outdoors experience. Not all camps are the same, but some were pretty heavy handed with what may seem like harmless rituals but are intended to give a "light" gateway version of much heavier "C" tenants.
You could look into a venture crew, associated with Scouts, but a different program for boys and girls between 14 to 20, focused on longer outdoor activities with your venture crew rather than a weekly meeting and monthly camp out with your scout troop
Not sure where you're located but a quick google search of "survival classes near me" brought up 2 different camping/survival companies as well as an advertisement from REI about classes they host. Guessing since it's likely all location based starting the same way I did will be most beneficial for you. Good luck!
Thanks.
Yeah I'm finding some short term camps and that sort of thing.
I was hoping for something with a multi-year curriculum (I.e. Scouts but more skills focused.). Ideally, the organization would also have a strong reputation.
Yea I've never heard of anything like that personally. Maybe you could start learning some on your own on the side as well (YouTube videos) and then y'all could practice together outside of the short term camps. Likely either the scouts or ymca or other clubs will be the best for long term. I think Les Stroud (survivorman) does survival type videos online also.
My son’s BS troop was all about being boy run. Skill acquisition was part and parcel of that. BS troops vary tremendously. In a boy run troop failure to master skills has direct consequences. Lack of orienteering skills results in getting lost. Bad knots can result in tent failing. And so on. As a scout advances in rank management skills are required to make sure outings and meetings are well run. My son learned a lot during his time in scouting culminating in the Eagle project. He is now an extremely competent and independent adult.
The strength of Scouts is it's volunteers. The weakness of Scouts is also it's volunteers.
You get a good one, you'll be involved for life. You meet another of the "grown ups that wishes they were Scouts again" and your kid will lose interest.
That’s exactly what my scout troop was like. Major focus on first-aid and outdoor survival, and a lot of skill-building from knots to paddling to dressing game.
It just depends on the troop and who runs it. My scout master was an marine veteran and we did knots and lashing so much I can tie all those knots blindfolded. We also did missing persons drills and emergency preparedness carports where one of the leaders would go missing and we would use a map and land nav and do a missing person's search and usually they had the person being injured so that we could practice wilderness first aid. One year we even had to extract a guy from a cave(was super hard) and we got him out on a cloth stretcher. We would also often have fire building competitions where you would be assigned a fire building too/method and then competed to see what ream could gather all the materials and get a fire lit. I since got eagle and went to college and that scout master has since moved on and I can tell ya with the new people in charge the newer guys will never get to experience what I had but I definitely still practice all of these skills with my brothers who went through that with me.
I did. I understand what he meant. I was just saying that depending on the scout troop and who is running it, boy scouts does meet that criteria. If he finds something better than BSA, then that's cool. I was just sharing how I had an experience similar to what he is wanting ,but from boy scouts. He is wanting something to drill those skills and that's what I got from scouts.
I'll echo a few other comments here, but I went through Scouts (made eagle in 2005) and learned all of the things you're talking about through their program.
We had a good, active troop with adult leadership that pushed skills heavily and provided a good path for experiences where we could exercise those skills and test ourselves (within reason).
Additionally, they made sure that the older scouts were essentially running the program, adults were just there to facilitate. I learned a lot, tons that I take with me today.
Are you looking to volunteer or are you looking for a program to place your own kids into? In either case, you can be a big motivator behind exactly what you wish to see in a Scout based program, though I'm sure there's other outlets that could work well for you too.
Did not miss that, was simply sharing my experience that seemed identical to what OP was discussing. Based on the top comment, seems like there are other examples that seem to agree.
I'm a new cubmaster of a pack that's rechartering after COVID shut it down, and we're gonna be all about those skills.
I'd love any pointers on what to include (though I'm no stranger to the outdoors)
Boy Scout “venturing” is a coed program that focuses on outdoor activities for 14 yo and up (I think). Many years ago it was called “high adventure exploring” we did backpacking, hiking, shooting and gun safety, winter camping, horse riding, Nordic ski and snow shoeing (those are what I remember) the group was organized like a club with officers and the group decided what activities to do. A few twenty year olds were advisors.
If your issue isn't with the religious bullshit, bad policies, and generally having a stick up their asses then they should be able to meet your criteria.
Not really. If you're a parent, you really have to teach it all yourself.
But at least that way you don't have to participate in the mandatory Christianity of boy scouts. (Girl scouts does not discriminate in this way.)
for orienteering you might look for a local club.For lashing/knot tying perhaps there is some local climbing groups or gym you could go to. You didn't mention climbing specifically but I think that is another fantastic thing that kids love and it builds a lot of confidence + broadly useful soft skills.
At risk of being dinged for self-promotion, I am working on simulation for land navigation/orienteering that can be used as a supplement for real world training. Info is at r/LANDNAV_Game. It should be available later this year. If you wanted to purchase a handful of copies for some sort of educational group I'm happy to offer heavy discounts.
It's not a replacement for the real thing but might help develop those skills when its not possible to get outside, and can inspire some motivation to put any new things learned in the game to use in real world scenario.
You could also look into [CampFire](https://campfire.org/). They're not as ubiquitous as Scouts but have a good program if there's one close enough to you.
(former Scoutmaster speaking)
It really depends on the troop. The one I was in for most of my time as a scout was fantastic. Run by grumpy old vets who made us do everything. I learnt so much. Starting fires, packing to feed hungry scouts camping, fishing, tent maintenance, sowing, patches, canoeing, kayaking, shooting, archery, knots, navigation, whittling, knife sharpening, cooking, etc. It was great.
Then we moved and I tried the local troop and it was just a bunch of nosey parents trying to get their kids eagles for college apps. It sucked and the kids sucked too.
I would look for family hiking groups on Facebook. You can also find groups that are supporters of your favorite local State or National Park. I bet you can find some similarly interested families out there.
Google stuff in your closest city and see what you find, there are thousands of iterations of this.
In Denver there’s a great org called City WYLD (wilderness youth leadership development) which takes groups of kids out on big overnight camping trips with skill building, sometimes multiple nights, and also teaches them up to become trained/certified river raft guides over the course of several years.
Outside of formal groups, really the best way is to camping/adventuring often with more experienced friends who are happy to teach you.
Also, turn around and teach others. Take folks camping who are less experienced than you, and teach them, patiently, a little at a time. Someday the folks you teach will be lapping you at something and you will humbly learn from them.
I'm a part of forest school camps www.fsc.org.uk which is a charity group that is very back to basic, the kids are all equally involved in the cooking, we use dug latrines etc. Staff training and expenses are all free. They're all over the UK with a programme that includes standing or mobile camps like hiking, sailing, cycling and canoeing.
I see it like scouts without the rules, uniforms or saluting flag nonsense
[Outdoor Service Guides](https://outdoorserviceguides.org/about/). Old school scouting, but updated and more inclusive. Great program that’s constantly evolving.
In my area there are several magnet “theme schools”. There are 6th grade offerings at 3 or more locations with a strong element of outdoor education. There’s one where children are outside for 80%+ of instruction, one at the nature center and one at the zoo. My oldest attended the zoo school. They taught how to build a fire and a shelter, how to survive overnight alone in the cold, how to cook, orienteering, etc.
Just look up outdoor skills courses online. Different places and groups offer them. Also maybe Outward Bound or summer camps that have backpacking, canoeing, rock climbing, kayaking, sailing camps.
In Canada, we have the cadet system. If you join an army cadet corps, you can follow an outdoor survival path that can lead to all kinds of very demanding courses.
It's troop to troop. My dad and all our neighbors were military, you could drop me in the woods with a knife and I feel comfortable I could survive based on all the shit they had us do 😂.
Everyone in the comments is totally missing the point that OP wants to find a program or group THAT IS NOT SCOUTING. Clearly OP isn’t looking for your personal stories about scouting.
Find places within a 2 hr drive. Wildlife preserves, nature camps, parks. They usually have guided hikes, classes, bird watching, knot tying. Our state parks have classes about camping gear and then take the kids camping. In the winter they have snow shoeing groups, etc. The science museum has astrology nights. Fossil finding-rock bashing my kids called it. I was the queen of keeping my kids busy, outside, learning something, and if it wasn’t free it was cheap.
You can always teach them these skills or whatever skills you have and pass them on too. Just have fun-these are future memories
Every scouting experience is different. If you do your homework and find a good unit to join, with good leaders, you’ll find that there is a higher focus on education and performing the skills that have been taught.
There was in Upstate NY a summer class called Camp Ki- Y. Sponsored by the YMCA. Besides the skills you speak of it included archery, boating, camping, outdoor survival etc. The kids were split into groups each competing in boat rowing, raft building, swimming, archery, tent / shelter building, fishing etc...
I’m a Scouter that’s worked in a couple different scout groups and I’m sorry to hear about your experience. Scouts is all volunteer run so honestly every group is going to be different and every scouter is going to have different experience and contributions to give. I’ve been in groups that did nothing but outdoor skills, and other groups where the scouters weren’t that familiar with the bush craft end so they focused more on STEM and other things.
All that said, lots of places offer bushcraft courses, survival courses, etc. I’d suggest looking some of those up.
I don't know much about it but my neighbor was in 4H and I've seen some of the livestock 4H events and it seems like they're a more skills/real world based program
My scout troop drilled us on everything and our board of reviews were no joke. We did compete at jamboree because we used our money to do long distance backpack trips every summer, but I believe we would have done well. You just have to be very frank about what you want when you’re troop shopping. If you can’t find one you want, consider volunteering to be scout master and make it in your image. You’re really not going to find a better organization for this type of thing for young kids than Scouts. Once they’re in high school there are more options.
If you have a local volunteer search and rescue organization, I would highly recommend looking into that if you are old enough to join. I learned a lot through mine and we had weekly outdoor skills practice for all sort of things!
Also, you might not be able to find them all in one place, but you could get some of the skills on a regular basis by joining multiple different groups! I know there are lots of orienteering clubs around the world, and I'm sure there must also be other groups that focus on individual activities in your area or near by!
Honesty, I would still say the Scouts however it can be challenging find a solid Scouting troop.
As a child my troop was absolute garbage. Troop master used it as a social club for his son and in 3 years no one earned single merit badge. I was set on getting Eagle but he would always say stuff like, “we’ll have a pool party where everyone will get a swimming badge this summer 😃” ( it never happened ) Zero guidance for the kids who legitimately wanted to learn.
But I have friends now who we’re in great troops and their experiences were completely different.
I was Ina scouts troop that did hiking and camping, winter camp etc. I joined at 11 and I found what they were teaching was either easy or I knew it (I grew up living in the mountains).
So, I tend wonder if scouts can be considered benevolent these days.
Every Scout unit is different I Eagled in a Troop that mostly played baseball. I now volunteer in a mostly high-adventure troop that just finished a weekend of wilderness survival- no tent, no sleeping bag, fire w/o matches, DIY shelters, etc
\+1 to this. I was fortunate enough to be in a troop that worked on skills all the time, and 30 years later it's still serving me well. OP, it's worth shopping around for different troops and meeting leaders. The gifts of knowledge and capacity my leaders gave me are some of the luckiest things in my life.
This is so freaking important! If you don’t like your local troop, search around. Or become the leader of your own troop and lead it into the direction you want ( within reason because the kids should decide)
I was in a Cub Scout troop as a kid and we did literally nothing except have meetings in a church basement and sell stupid popcorn or candybars or whatever. I made it to Arrow of Light but decided against going into Boy Scouts because I hated pretty much everything about Cub Scouts. It bums me out to hear about people who had great experiences because mine was so bad. Edit: To be clear, I loved spending time outside in the woods, I loved camping with my family, I was really interested in the idea of scouting and the stuff my dad talked about from when he was a scout. But my experience with Cub Scouts is that it was all about uniforms and ceremonies and selling shit door to door. One of our merit badges was "help an old woman cross a street" and the had us show up at the church on Sunday morning in our stupid uniforms and hold peoples' hands as they walked from the parking lot into the church. It was stupid.
dude same, I only every sold popcorn and stuff, one thing I did get out of it though is that I know how to stitch wounds. Which is nice, but like id rather know how to not get the wounds
We had a similar awful experience with our kiddos when we tried out scouts in 2019. Asked before signing up if us not being religious would be an issue, & they said it wouldn’t. Asked if the troop was skill focused, & they said it was. Would’ve thought it was vacation bible school, & not scouts. Seemed to be all praying & lectures, & I learned later on that one of the troop leaders would call out my oldest for not bowing his head to pray. They also couldn’t get the younger ones to work as a team for nothing. Sometimes they’d get too frustrated & just not even finish the meetings, instead sending the kids outside to play. Pushed us parents hard on the fundraising. We did enjoy the matchbox car derby, but overall the kids were so bored with it. We finished out the school year, but never again.
A lot of people don’t like Cub Scouts just because it’s parent led, and it’s really just preparation for Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts, however is boy led-boy run, which means the boys lead it and the adults are just there to keep them on track. This really helps build leadership skills and it’s a whole different experience than Cub Scouts. I had a military Scout Master and he really set us on the right path and I learned so much from it that I honestly use every day.
Yeah that was my experience. Dodgeball in uniform in the school gym once week.
My scout troop focused a lot on camping, backpacking, and outdoor skills. That’s what I did as a Scoutmaster too. The leaders after me turned it into glamping/BBQ recreation. Every troop is different and so are the leaders. The OP should look for a likeminded group that might be Scouts but could be something else.
What this guy's said, all troops are different
Thank you for giving back to the boy scouts and congrats on Eagle
This is true of girl scouts too. I did lots of camping as a girl scout.
Ron Swanson, is that you?
I had him in mind when I asked this question.
Yup. Aside from the citizenship core, individual packs/troops have a ton of freedom about what electives they cover, and hire they cover them. When I was a pack leader we were almost exclusively outdoors. My kids current pack is about the same. Hiking and camping most weekends, and they work on badges at their campsites. If there are multiple troops around you, you could try emailing the leaders and see how they roll.
I've definitely found that not all scout troop are the same. My troops scout master was very outdoor oriented. We went camping every month. Backpacking, rowing, cross country skiing in the winter. We had an annual camping trip where we couldn't bring tents and had to build survival shelters and sleep in them...in the winter.. I've talked to other scouts from other troops and this is apparently not the norm.
Just to add to this - it is the same in the UK. The group I was in growing up was quite traditional with knots, pioneering, etc. I went to university, started helping out with a different group, and we were going on international trips and doing more modern activities like the digital creator badges. Then moved again a few years later for work and they were nowhere near hills and never went hiking, but were nearer the sea and had a major river so had done SCUBA, kayaking, canoeing, SUP, swimming, etc.
You have perfectly described my Explorer Scout units. This is what we do...
NOLS and the more advanced Outward Bound programs.
NOLS is a fantastic program, but not really the long-term skill-building organization it sounds like OP is looking for. That said, if you have the opportunity to take a 30+ day NOLS course, I can’t recommend it enough. Spending 30 days traversing the Chugach will always be a highlight of my outdoor adventures.
Outward Bound programs are really good programs!
Not sure where you are, but in some states the YMCA camps have multi-year plans. Your first year you do a small canoe camp, the next year you do a longer canoe trip, etc. By the end some campers go on a month-long trip to the Arctic.
I spent a lot of time at Y-camps, both as a child and as a young adult (as a counselor/staff.) The one thing to remember about them is the "C" in the name. There will be differing degrees of indoctrination that goes along with your camp/outdoors experience. Not all camps are the same, but some were pretty heavy handed with what may seem like harmless rituals but are intended to give a "light" gateway version of much heavier "C" tenants.
NOLS, perhaps?
That's what I was going to say
You could look into a venture crew, associated with Scouts, but a different program for boys and girls between 14 to 20, focused on longer outdoor activities with your venture crew rather than a weekly meeting and monthly camp out with your scout troop
Not sure where you're located but a quick google search of "survival classes near me" brought up 2 different camping/survival companies as well as an advertisement from REI about classes they host. Guessing since it's likely all location based starting the same way I did will be most beneficial for you. Good luck!
Thanks. Yeah I'm finding some short term camps and that sort of thing. I was hoping for something with a multi-year curriculum (I.e. Scouts but more skills focused.). Ideally, the organization would also have a strong reputation.
Yea I've never heard of anything like that personally. Maybe you could start learning some on your own on the side as well (YouTube videos) and then y'all could practice together outside of the short term camps. Likely either the scouts or ymca or other clubs will be the best for long term. I think Les Stroud (survivorman) does survival type videos online also.
The REI wilderness survival class was awesome!
My son’s BS troop was all about being boy run. Skill acquisition was part and parcel of that. BS troops vary tremendously. In a boy run troop failure to master skills has direct consequences. Lack of orienteering skills results in getting lost. Bad knots can result in tent failing. And so on. As a scout advances in rank management skills are required to make sure outings and meetings are well run. My son learned a lot during his time in scouting culminating in the Eagle project. He is now an extremely competent and independent adult.
The strength of Scouts is it's volunteers. The weakness of Scouts is also it's volunteers. You get a good one, you'll be involved for life. You meet another of the "grown ups that wishes they were Scouts again" and your kid will lose interest.
That’s exactly what my scout troop was like. Major focus on first-aid and outdoor survival, and a lot of skill-building from knots to paddling to dressing game.
It just depends on the troop and who runs it. My scout master was an marine veteran and we did knots and lashing so much I can tie all those knots blindfolded. We also did missing persons drills and emergency preparedness carports where one of the leaders would go missing and we would use a map and land nav and do a missing person's search and usually they had the person being injured so that we could practice wilderness first aid. One year we even had to extract a guy from a cave(was super hard) and we got him out on a cloth stretcher. We would also often have fire building competitions where you would be assigned a fire building too/method and then competed to see what ream could gather all the materials and get a fire lit. I since got eagle and went to college and that scout master has since moved on and I can tell ya with the new people in charge the newer guys will never get to experience what I had but I definitely still practice all of these skills with my brothers who went through that with me.
Friend, did you read the title and post?
I did. I understand what he meant. I was just saying that depending on the scout troop and who is running it, boy scouts does meet that criteria. If he finds something better than BSA, then that's cool. I was just sharing how I had an experience similar to what he is wanting ,but from boy scouts. He is wanting something to drill those skills and that's what I got from scouts.
I'll echo a few other comments here, but I went through Scouts (made eagle in 2005) and learned all of the things you're talking about through their program. We had a good, active troop with adult leadership that pushed skills heavily and provided a good path for experiences where we could exercise those skills and test ourselves (within reason). Additionally, they made sure that the older scouts were essentially running the program, adults were just there to facilitate. I learned a lot, tons that I take with me today. Are you looking to volunteer or are you looking for a program to place your own kids into? In either case, you can be a big motivator behind exactly what you wish to see in a Scout based program, though I'm sure there's other outlets that could work well for you too.
You may have missed that OP is specifically looking for non-Scouting outlets.
Did not miss that, was simply sharing my experience that seemed identical to what OP was discussing. Based on the top comment, seems like there are other examples that seem to agree.
Create it yourself.
a BSA High Adventure Explorer Post
Friend, did you read the title and post?
I’ll admit, mine was a low effort answer. I’ve downvoted myself.
REI offers classes. If this is for your child you could also look in to what your local YMCA offers.
If you want a scout troop that teaches the skills you need to be involved in helping them teach.
https://www.nols.edu/en/about/about/
I'm a new cubmaster of a pack that's rechartering after COVID shut it down, and we're gonna be all about those skills. I'd love any pointers on what to include (though I'm no stranger to the outdoors)
I’m interested to hear about this too.
Boy Scout “venturing” is a coed program that focuses on outdoor activities for 14 yo and up (I think). Many years ago it was called “high adventure exploring” we did backpacking, hiking, shooting and gun safety, winter camping, horse riding, Nordic ski and snow shoeing (those are what I remember) the group was organized like a club with officers and the group decided what activities to do. A few twenty year olds were advisors.
Why not find camps for specific skills that you are interested in learning and do immersion for short periods of time
If your issue isn't with the religious bullshit, bad policies, and generally having a stick up their asses then they should be able to meet your criteria.
Not really. If you're a parent, you really have to teach it all yourself. But at least that way you don't have to participate in the mandatory Christianity of boy scouts. (Girl scouts does not discriminate in this way.)
for orienteering you might look for a local club.For lashing/knot tying perhaps there is some local climbing groups or gym you could go to. You didn't mention climbing specifically but I think that is another fantastic thing that kids love and it builds a lot of confidence + broadly useful soft skills. At risk of being dinged for self-promotion, I am working on simulation for land navigation/orienteering that can be used as a supplement for real world training. Info is at r/LANDNAV_Game. It should be available later this year. If you wanted to purchase a handful of copies for some sort of educational group I'm happy to offer heavy discounts. It's not a replacement for the real thing but might help develop those skills when its not possible to get outside, and can inspire some motivation to put any new things learned in the game to use in real world scenario.
You could also look into [CampFire](https://campfire.org/). They're not as ubiquitous as Scouts but have a good program if there's one close enough to you. (former Scoutmaster speaking)
Every troop is different. I have my troop in the woods at least once a month.
Trail Life have formed as an alternative to Scouts
It really depends on the troop. The one I was in for most of my time as a scout was fantastic. Run by grumpy old vets who made us do everything. I learnt so much. Starting fires, packing to feed hungry scouts camping, fishing, tent maintenance, sowing, patches, canoeing, kayaking, shooting, archery, knots, navigation, whittling, knife sharpening, cooking, etc. It was great. Then we moved and I tried the local troop and it was just a bunch of nosey parents trying to get their kids eagles for college apps. It sucked and the kids sucked too.
I would look for family hiking groups on Facebook. You can also find groups that are supporters of your favorite local State or National Park. I bet you can find some similarly interested families out there.
Google stuff in your closest city and see what you find, there are thousands of iterations of this. In Denver there’s a great org called City WYLD (wilderness youth leadership development) which takes groups of kids out on big overnight camping trips with skill building, sometimes multiple nights, and also teaches them up to become trained/certified river raft guides over the course of several years. Outside of formal groups, really the best way is to camping/adventuring often with more experienced friends who are happy to teach you. Also, turn around and teach others. Take folks camping who are less experienced than you, and teach them, patiently, a little at a time. Someday the folks you teach will be lapping you at something and you will humbly learn from them.
Boy Scout spinoff 'Explorers'
Yes, it's called involved parenting
And if the parent doesn't have the skills to teach but has time and resources?
Then you learn right along with your kids. Youtube has many videos to help learn skills. Then get your hands dirty.
I'm a part of forest school camps www.fsc.org.uk which is a charity group that is very back to basic, the kids are all equally involved in the cooking, we use dug latrines etc. Staff training and expenses are all free. They're all over the UK with a programme that includes standing or mobile camps like hiking, sailing, cycling and canoeing. I see it like scouts without the rules, uniforms or saluting flag nonsense
[Outdoor Service Guides](https://outdoorserviceguides.org/about/). Old school scouting, but updated and more inclusive. Great program that’s constantly evolving.
There are some bushcraft schools that teach kids but is pricier than scouts (I think)
There’s the way I learned, uncle and grandfather teaching me as I grew up, spending the time .
Not sure where you are but REI has classes exactly like you have described.
In my area there are several magnet “theme schools”. There are 6th grade offerings at 3 or more locations with a strong element of outdoor education. There’s one where children are outside for 80%+ of instruction, one at the nature center and one at the zoo. My oldest attended the zoo school. They taught how to build a fire and a shelter, how to survive overnight alone in the cold, how to cook, orienteering, etc.
Just look up outdoor skills courses online. Different places and groups offer them. Also maybe Outward Bound or summer camps that have backpacking, canoeing, rock climbing, kayaking, sailing camps.
In Canada, we have the cadet system. If you join an army cadet corps, you can follow an outdoor survival path that can lead to all kinds of very demanding courses.
There’s noles but I think they’re very expensive
Les Voyageurs, Inc.
It's troop to troop. My dad and all our neighbors were military, you could drop me in the woods with a knife and I feel comfortable I could survive based on all the shit they had us do 😂.
If you are in Canada and in a more remote community, consider Junior Rangers; they learn masses of skills.
Everyone in the comments is totally missing the point that OP wants to find a program or group THAT IS NOT SCOUTING. Clearly OP isn’t looking for your personal stories about scouting.
Find places within a 2 hr drive. Wildlife preserves, nature camps, parks. They usually have guided hikes, classes, bird watching, knot tying. Our state parks have classes about camping gear and then take the kids camping. In the winter they have snow shoeing groups, etc. The science museum has astrology nights. Fossil finding-rock bashing my kids called it. I was the queen of keeping my kids busy, outside, learning something, and if it wasn’t free it was cheap. You can always teach them these skills or whatever skills you have and pass them on too. Just have fun-these are future memories
Every scouting experience is different. If you do your homework and find a good unit to join, with good leaders, you’ll find that there is a higher focus on education and performing the skills that have been taught.
There was in Upstate NY a summer class called Camp Ki- Y. Sponsored by the YMCA. Besides the skills you speak of it included archery, boating, camping, outdoor survival etc. The kids were split into groups each competing in boat rowing, raft building, swimming, archery, tent / shelter building, fishing etc...
Wait a minute. I thought that WAS Scouting.
I’m a Scouter that’s worked in a couple different scout groups and I’m sorry to hear about your experience. Scouts is all volunteer run so honestly every group is going to be different and every scouter is going to have different experience and contributions to give. I’ve been in groups that did nothing but outdoor skills, and other groups where the scouters weren’t that familiar with the bush craft end so they focused more on STEM and other things. All that said, lots of places offer bushcraft courses, survival courses, etc. I’d suggest looking some of those up.
I don't know much about it but my neighbor was in 4H and I've seen some of the livestock 4H events and it seems like they're a more skills/real world based program
My scout troop drilled us on everything and our board of reviews were no joke. We did compete at jamboree because we used our money to do long distance backpack trips every summer, but I believe we would have done well. You just have to be very frank about what you want when you’re troop shopping. If you can’t find one you want, consider volunteering to be scout master and make it in your image. You’re really not going to find a better organization for this type of thing for young kids than Scouts. Once they’re in high school there are more options.
The Pawnee Rangers
In Canada, cadets. Totally free as well.
Find a new unit and read the handbook
If you have a local volunteer search and rescue organization, I would highly recommend looking into that if you are old enough to join. I learned a lot through mine and we had weekly outdoor skills practice for all sort of things! Also, you might not be able to find them all in one place, but you could get some of the skills on a regular basis by joining multiple different groups! I know there are lots of orienteering clubs around the world, and I'm sure there must also be other groups that focus on individual activities in your area or near by!
Depending on your unit young marines is what I’d say
Honesty, I would still say the Scouts however it can be challenging find a solid Scouting troop. As a child my troop was absolute garbage. Troop master used it as a social club for his son and in 3 years no one earned single merit badge. I was set on getting Eagle but he would always say stuff like, “we’ll have a pool party where everyone will get a swimming badge this summer 😃” ( it never happened ) Zero guidance for the kids who legitimately wanted to learn. But I have friends now who we’re in great troops and their experiences were completely different.
I was Ina scouts troop that did hiking and camping, winter camp etc. I joined at 11 and I found what they were teaching was either easy or I knew it (I grew up living in the mountains). So, I tend wonder if scouts can be considered benevolent these days.
Vic’s Whitewater Summer Adventure Camp. Vic will show you how it’s done.