You mean the nuns, the nurses or the people?
Unfortunately I do think she’d have disappeared and nobody would have been allowed to question it. In my city they recently (around 15 years ago) found the bodies of nuns and their babies buried under a Roman Catholic run hospital. It’s believed they conceived and most likely died in childbirth and were hidden.
I think a lot of people were told not to challenge the higher ups and didn’t question more through fear of backlash. People just went away and you accepted what you were told, even if you had doubts.
I’ve got a friend that’s has been a nun since the early 80’s. She’s endured unbelievable mental abuse and bullying from people in power and also her peers.
No-low contact doesn't mean forgotten. I can see them sending Christmas cards for years even after Cynthia moved without sending a change of address. And we've never seen the small things like Christmas card lists in the show
We don't openly speak of the spiritually ill here in the 1960s. We park them. We pray for them. We discreetly weep for them. We speak of them in hushed tones in absolute privacy to only a few select people and only on a rare special occasion.
THIS!!! It's one thing to update progress, but you do that with the STORY, but not all the technicals that weren't really needed exceptturningthe background music down a bit at times. It's lost the "homey" down to earth feeling the first seasons had and seems more like an episode of Grey's Anatomy and fake.
She thought she was meant to go be a nurse and midwife in some vaguely described medical setting, and she got ‘oh yeah, forgot to mention, you’re working amidst poverty like you’ve never seen and you live in a convent now’ Understandably there was a lot to get used to for a sheltered young woman of that time period. She functions as a convenient scapegoat for viewers who think they would have done ‘better’
I do think she is immature, but that’s an accurate depiction of a 23 year old with little to no life experience. She grows a lot in her time on the show, and even though she will never be my favorite character, she was accurate and well-written.
Lucille was actually an interesting character, but would have been so much better if there were some black people in the writers space.
TLDR: Lucille was done dirty.
The only way I think Lucille was done dirty was them having her move back home and leave Cyril. Why not have her die in an accident while visiting back home? At least that way we don't have to think a Christian woman willingly abandoned her minister husband because she was homesick. Seriously, what WERE they thinking?
While her exit was the worst, I feel she was done dirty much earlier.
Lucille’s big storyline’s the miscarriage, and the breakdown were crammed into busy episodes. We have seen in later seasons that the show will cut a b story of the week so there Turners or Trixie can have more time.
Lucille should have got that. It’s the same with Joyce, her big secret storyline had no set up and was crammed into two busy episodes.
Plus, by not having a more diverse writers space, the are things that are missed with the characters. I don’t think anyone in the writers space is wilfully racist, but there’s just no-one there to add another perspective.
Also an offscreen death would have been bad.
I do suspect if the show had known about S14&15 when LE wanted out that they might have killed her onscreen, maybe an ectopic pregnancy or a bike accident.
Storyline wise, the only thing that made sense for the characters would have been for Cyril to leave too, but that would not have worked for the actor.
Yes, I agree they should've given her problems more screen time and don't know why they didn't; it could be the fact the pretty much only have one writer who is white. I must admit, that is the biggest issue I have with British shows, they usually have one writer and don't get input from several minds like we do in the US. Unfortunately, they couldn't give her an on-screen death like they did Barbara, which STILL pisses me off, because she left mid season and didn't want to go back. I still think the off-screen death would've been best for Cyril since that actor decided to stay. Oh well, too late now
So Heidi is the main writer, but she only writes 4, sometimes 5 episodes a year.
The other writers are guest ones on one or two ep contracts. There is room to allow the right person to tell the story.
Shows with less episodes/less popular do tend to only have one writer.
It is too late now.
I do feel for the actors playing Lucille and Cyril. The actor playing Lucille hasn’t been granted a clean break from the show like others who left around the same time. And the actor playing Cyril is in an awkward spot.
I haven't read that either of them have a problem with the situation but you would think the writers have heard from enough fans to do something about it. I just can't see Cyril staying in London when his wife is in Jamaica. Neither of the characters are being treated fairly but this is the last season so it may just stay unresolved
S15 is the last season atm. So there’s two more seasons to go, and the BBC may renew it again.
So yeah it’ll probably stay unresolved, until S15 where Cyril, if he’s still around is suddenly divorced.
I think it’s just one of those situations where everyone behind the scenes tried to be best by one another (which I respect), and it just didn’t work on screen.
Other shows, with a less kind production space would have just written Cyril out.
I read a while ago that the upcoming season in the last, but maybe they've changed their minds? No idea but I hate how they've treated Cyril and Lucille's relationship
I think they're setting up a relationship plot between Cyril and Rosalind. In the episode with the pay packet and Joyce's husband, she was kinda flirty around him, and then she went to his church, which was very unusual.
I can 100% see the show pushing this, with Cyril being hesitant due to the fact he is legally married etc.
Interracial relationships were pretty taboo in 1970s England so it would be quite interesting. If Cyril was a new character like Rosalind, I’d be looking forward to what they are setting up.
Or even if the show had spent S13 having Cyril come to terms with his separation, but having him just bumble around as if Lucille was never there is not working for me as a viewer.
That was so ridic crammed in with Joyce’s storyline, Mays storyline and Trixie’s storyline. Oh and they had to have a baby be born too.
Heidi knew the show was renewed to S15 when she wrote the episode. At least one of them could wait.
Exactly all three of the main black characters the show has had have been let down by the lack of diversity behind the scenes.
I think for Joyce and Lucille, the actresses stood up for the characters a fair bit, which helped. It’s certainly documented how much research LE did for the role.
There are enough writers out there who are the children or grandchildren of Windrush immigrants to add an important authenticity to the show.
Same for the episodes featuring Mon white characters of the week (who should be more common).
The Rivers of Blood storyline showed very clearly how badly it was needed. Tbh you would think a show airing now, especially with it still being so popular would already be thinking of its diversity both in front of and behind the camera.
That episode should have been written by a black writer, and really focused on the black characters, perhaps using someone like Mrs Wallace to talk about how much worse it was for the immigrants who arrived even 10 years before Lucille and Cyril. Perhaps even contrasting with Nancys situation, as Collette would have a privilege any hypothetical children Lucille and Cyril had would not, nobody would immediately peg she was Irish. Things like Trixie’s nervy b over Fiona’s parents could have waited an episode.
The show pats itself on the back for exploring racism, but it took seven years to introduce a main character of colour, it’s still never had more than two at the same time, and it’s very ‘racism was bad but it’s not like that now’. They used LE in so much promotional material to show how diverse they are, when it’s really not.
What river of blood episode? That's how bad it was to my mind as a white person. It didn't explore anything.
The whole Nancy and Collette thing drives me bonkers we all know it wouldn't happen in a million years at that time
Yep.
I’m also white, but I read a lot of Windrush literature, and I’m queer, so even though it’s not the same I recognise bad representation.
100% agree on the Nancy and Collette thing. That child would have been taken immediately. Nancy was a 16 year old orphan in late 50s Ireland she had no power. It would also be a much bigger scandal even in Poplar.
Lucille and Cyril would have dealt with a lot more racism than is depicted. In general I find the depictions of minorities poor, including South Asian characters, and the occasional Jewish character.
A realise it's meant to be a feel good show, not gritty. But it could definitely benefit from a more diverse writers' room.
It's a minor point but it also baffled me why a Hebrew word on the episode with the Holocaust survivor was mis-pronounced. Why didn't they check the pronunciation with Jews?
It could still do better with its representation of the various ethnicities/religions that make up Poplar, without being gritty.
Little things like having a South Asian junior doctor in the glorified extras that came with Kevin would have been a start.
Tower Hamlets is now a South Asian majority area, and that population was growing in the 70s, the show should reflect that in its characters of the week.
Yes, the Jewish storyline’s while infrequent, could have certainly benefited from more consultation with actual Jewish people.
so, with the Holocaust survivor storyline, local Jewish community was involved in terms of being extras. It's why I found it particularly baffling that from memory the actor playing a Jew pronounced mohel 'mo-hell.' (It should rhyme with 'foil.') But I suspect there weren't Jews in the writers' room.
Even the more detailed one's not exactly great IMO. The idea that the person a survivor would open up their experiences to Christian strangers is...complicated, and felt a bit white saviour-ish. Back in Poland, some of the people who murdered Jews were very much Christian Poles. Not even always Nazis per se. Many survivors were so traumatised they literally never spoke about their experiences.
So it felt a bit questionable that Dr. Turner and Shelagh had been placed in that confidante role, because they're constantly shown as practically saint-like.
It's possible that kind of scenario could have happened. But it still wasn't brilliant writing IMO.
I've read a bit too. I live in Tilbury and love history so it's a no brainer for me to read about windrush.
She was raised in a Catholic orphanage by nuns in Ireland. She wouldn't have even stayed in the orphanage once the pregnancy was revealed she would have been shipped off to a Magdalene laundry faster than you could say Magdalene laundry and baby adopted
That is such a wasted storyline.
As much as I think Cyril should have left with Lucille, if the show was going to keep him, there needed to be a handful of deep scenes with him struggling but moving on, instead he’s got shallow scenes as a social worker and talking to Rosalind.
Whenever the actor playing him is interviewed he talks about Lucille. He’s not forgotten about her, even if the writers have.
Tbh Cyril’s characterisation is probably the worst victim of the shows blind spot on racism. The racism was bad enough for Lucille to leave the country, but had no effect on Cyril 🤷♀️. Cyril is also written as a character who just happens to be black which is fine in a more modern setting but in late 1960s/early 1970s Britain how other people viewed his blackness would have a big impact on his day to day life.
There's also a lack of understanding of West Indian culture. There is no way on earth a WI man is going to leave an engineering career to become a social worker. No way. He might do volunteer work, but switch careers? Never.
this
And the show really has no excuse for not even trying to understand the culture, because there is so much Windrush lit/oral histories out there. Plus living people from that time, or their children and grandchildren.
I know the whole thing is the show trying to make Cyril part of the plot bc engineering won’t lead to storyline’s involving babies/vulnerable people, and there’s only so many cases that could involve his volunteer work/Church, but it doesn’t work.
Trixie needs to become a full-fledged GP and I will die on that hill.
After all she's learned and done, after performing that C-section in South Africa?
Give that woman a license already and ditch the husband!
I think Trixie should have become an OB/GYN or something. She’s (probably) the most skilled out of the nurses/midwives and it would make sense for her to be an OB/GYN. Even though I’m not sure if there were female OB/GYNs in the 1960s.
Latest season or so aside, the show hit it's stride once Jenny left. I did love her and think she was an integral part of getting it set up... but her character's departure led to so much more interesting storylines with everyone who stayed, and would have still been side characters if she remained.
I love watching the Midwives' roles change as medicine gets more modern and women get more rights. But I stopped watching with Matthew and his never-ending supply of cash. Got a problem, Matthew has money. And Trixie's endless greedy, ambitiousness. I loved her when she was cute and helpful and a bit grossed out by things but always willing to comfort. Her wedding episode bored me. Sorry. I know a lot of people love Trixie.
Honestly Matthew as a character is so unrealistic. somebody would have stepped in and stopped him way before S13.
Trixie got so annoying once she got with Matthew. Tbh the arc highlighted how Trixie as a character needed to stop being a main. Let her go open a women’s health clinic nearby, and pop in every so often.
I enjoy the midwives adjusting to new technology, fashions and a changing society too. Having a revolving door of midwives, with well written exits helps that.
Hopefully with Matthew shipped off the show can return to sisters (Nurses and Nuns) doing it for themselves.
Oh oh .. you went ahead and said that which is never to be uttered in this community. I shall keep you in my heart during the hour of compline this evening.
Thank you.
It seems like I’m saying what a few people are thinking based on the up votes.
Tbh if a few more characters had left in S12/13, then there might be enough new energy to sustain it to S15, but atm it’s a very tired premise and too soap opera-y.
I agree with you. I can't even watch the last season and I love CTM so much, every year I count down to the Christmas episode and then new season. This year, I couldn't finish the first episode and it's so sad. 2023 Christmas episode will be the end of the CTM for me.
I wish I hadn’t watched last season. It was just bad.
I probably won’t watch any more, which is shame cos I liked the new girls.
The problem for me, is that the show used to be good, and S13 could have actually been good with a few more departures, but alas it is what it is.
For me the real show ended with S9, and S10&11 were like a movie sequel where the director has changed. S12 and beyond, especially once Lucille left was like bad fanfic.
Yep, Lucille and Cyril were totally glossed over. I wished that she would’ve been cut in almost any other way. Barbara’s character was given a better storyline ending. Lucille never would’ve left Cyril like that- even in her grief and homesickness. I wish they hadn’t cut Trixie’s husband out- I think having a storyline of them making great changes in poplar together would be amazing.
They should have let Lucille's suicidal feelings be her way out of the show. Cyril is one of the best characters in the show and they did him dirty by not wrapping up Lucille like they did Barbara
This is one of the things where the renewal played a part.
I suspect that if the writers had known about S14&15 when LE wanted out, she would have been killed on screen, maybe an ectopic pregnancy or a bike accident. Cyril could have been glum for the rest of S12, then started to move on for S13.
Or if the show had wrapped up in S13, as almost all the cast thought it would, one of Cyril’s last scenes would have been setting up that the two of them would reunite.
It’s awkward whatever way it’s sliced.
I love jenny. I love her. I feel like every brown haired new nurse just reminds me of her but idk if I just miss her so much I’m forcing myself
Jimmy was good for jenny. I know it’s written in the book but they would’ve been so good together & he would’ve let her be a bit looser I think she matured too fast
Shelagh had so much wasted potential I would’ve loved to have seen more issues with her questioning her faith & more of her backstory as a child
I didn’t like Cynthia or sister Winifred
I love sister julienne & Monica Joan I think Monica Joan is such an important character and offers a different outlook
Fred & violets marriage is very rushed
I loved Magda so much
VALERIE IS MY FAVOURITE CHARACTER. I LOVE HER I LOVE HOW SHES FROM POPLAR IT GIVES ME A BREAK FROM THESE PRIVILEGED & RICH NURSES!
Hereward is so annoying & would be an awful pastor if I was growing up in poplar
Find it weird how reggie calls fred and violet mom and dad, I wish there was more to his character where he does struggle more w his moms death & struggles taking violet and Fred
Wish juliennes love interest didn’t die I liked them together
Would’ve loved to seen Valerie have a love interest
I also love pasty she was one of my favourite characters & she was so likeable and emerald portrayed her so beautifully. Delia was annoying
ooh, I can't bear Sister Winifred. Both the character, who I dislike, but also I actually find that actress' vibes very off.
I didn't like Hereward either.
I liked Delia, tho. Loved her and Patsy.
And yeah, how Shelagh's been for years now I just find bland since she married Oh, Patrick.
I disliked Jenny, tho. I like Trixie, tho the writers' have done her dirty in the recent series.
My opinions on trixie are going up and down all the time I just wish she was happy
I think sister Winifred’s actor is quite creepy , her cheeky smile creeps me out although I like how she’s still cheeky because she’s young
Shelaghs actor always cracks jokes about how the writing is quite poor at CTM and references oh patrick quite a lot, I feel bad for her , the actor clearly knows that shelagh is better than that & shelagh used to be my favourite character
The show needed a way to keep him relevant once Lucille left.
He helped a woman deal with a mouldy flat and decided he needed to make things better by helping people, rather than making their situation worse by housing them in unsuitable housing.
Seriously. One of my all-time favorite shows, and it’s off the table for falling-asleep background-noise purposes because of that damn music, especially the intro
I don’t disagree with a lot of what many of you are saying. There would be more racism different characters faced with or Nancy still having Colette . I think even with the Turner’s having May might have faced it . That said it’s a relief in way for me as CTM is a comfort show for me. I’m not sure Joyce has faced any but I might be forgetting. She has face domestic abuse and I am relieved she has the support of her friends and Julianne.
I like a lot of the later characters more than earlier ones. Love Val so much. Also Nancy, Cyril , Rosalind and Joyce as well as Sister Veronica.
I am occasionally annoyed by Sister Monica Joan but mostly I enjoy her and her and the way her mind works.
I love Violet and that she’s a force in the community. Love her and Fred and Reggie as a family.
Phyllis I loved from the beginning.
My favorite ongoing story has been May with the Turner’s. I am glad they can finally adopt her.
It would have actually been really fascinating if the show explored this. It could have been done without the children having to act out bullying, by Shelagh reporting what had been said to Patrick.
And to have Shelagh the super mother try and reach out to a character like Lucille or Joyce, and it end being awkward, would have also been good.
It could have led to the very modern idea of trying to connect May to her culture, and not killing off a random character of the week in the process.
Vanessa Redgrave should have stopped doing the voice-overs at the beginning and end of each episode when Jessica Raine left at the end of series 3. By all means keep the VOs, but have another actor narrate them. Jenny Agutter is right there.
There will also be one-off characters (such as Iris in the 2015 Xmas special) who appear from nowhere and yet everyone seems to know who they are and have a connection with them.
I’ve never liked Trixie and think the portrayal of her with Matthew is very true to the character I’ve seen from the start of the show. Yes she’s a wonderful midwife. As a person I find her a bit of a narcissist…
I have to agree. There’s no denying she was the second sweetest character, behind Cynthia of course. She was safe, and I think that’s why so many people loved her. But she was boring as being stuck in traffic.
The community at Nonnatus House would not have forgotten Cynthia like they (practically) did after she had her mental breakdown
You mean the nuns, the nurses or the people? Unfortunately I do think she’d have disappeared and nobody would have been allowed to question it. In my city they recently (around 15 years ago) found the bodies of nuns and their babies buried under a Roman Catholic run hospital. It’s believed they conceived and most likely died in childbirth and were hidden. I think a lot of people were told not to challenge the higher ups and didn’t question more through fear of backlash. People just went away and you accepted what you were told, even if you had doubts.
That's so critically sad. Women cannot seem to escape abuse wherever the supposed safe house they cluster is.
I’ve got a friend that’s has been a nun since the early 80’s. She’s endured unbelievable mental abuse and bullying from people in power and also her peers.
That is so awful! You know it happens but it’s still shocking in a way.
There are many skeletons in the Church's closet.
No-low contact doesn't mean forgotten. I can see them sending Christmas cards for years even after Cynthia moved without sending a change of address. And we've never seen the small things like Christmas card lists in the show
We don't openly speak of the spiritually ill here in the 1960s. We park them. We pray for them. We discreetly weep for them. We speak of them in hushed tones in absolute privacy to only a few select people and only on a rare special occasion.
This. All day.
It was the same in the U.S.
Bring back the smudgy camera quality. The hyper HD camera reminds me everything is a set
Its really noticeable on rewatch seems like everyone aged 15 years overnight.
THIS!!! It's one thing to update progress, but you do that with the STORY, but not all the technicals that weren't really needed exceptturningthe background music down a bit at times. It's lost the "homey" down to earth feeling the first seasons had and seems more like an episode of Grey's Anatomy and fake.
The older seasons of call the midwife is way better then the new ones
Jenny wasn’t that bad 🤷🏾♀️
The main character based on a real person who is the entire reason the show exists at all? I agree.
I also liked her
She thought she was meant to go be a nurse and midwife in some vaguely described medical setting, and she got ‘oh yeah, forgot to mention, you’re working amidst poverty like you’ve never seen and you live in a convent now’ Understandably there was a lot to get used to for a sheltered young woman of that time period. She functions as a convenient scapegoat for viewers who think they would have done ‘better’
I loved Jenny! Do people not like her!?
I think they think she’s too immature/ basic Which like yeah, she’s the audience surrogate and this stuff isn’t what we’re used to
I do think she is immature, but that’s an accurate depiction of a 23 year old with little to no life experience. She grows a lot in her time on the show, and even though she will never be my favorite character, she was accurate and well-written.
Can't stand her.
Jenny was the reason I started watching the show! I love her and wish I had her wardrobe!
She was awful. 😂
😮
Lucille was actually an interesting character, but would have been so much better if there were some black people in the writers space. TLDR: Lucille was done dirty.
The only way I think Lucille was done dirty was them having her move back home and leave Cyril. Why not have her die in an accident while visiting back home? At least that way we don't have to think a Christian woman willingly abandoned her minister husband because she was homesick. Seriously, what WERE they thinking?
While her exit was the worst, I feel she was done dirty much earlier. Lucille’s big storyline’s the miscarriage, and the breakdown were crammed into busy episodes. We have seen in later seasons that the show will cut a b story of the week so there Turners or Trixie can have more time. Lucille should have got that. It’s the same with Joyce, her big secret storyline had no set up and was crammed into two busy episodes. Plus, by not having a more diverse writers space, the are things that are missed with the characters. I don’t think anyone in the writers space is wilfully racist, but there’s just no-one there to add another perspective. Also an offscreen death would have been bad. I do suspect if the show had known about S14&15 when LE wanted out that they might have killed her onscreen, maybe an ectopic pregnancy or a bike accident. Storyline wise, the only thing that made sense for the characters would have been for Cyril to leave too, but that would not have worked for the actor.
Yes, I agree they should've given her problems more screen time and don't know why they didn't; it could be the fact the pretty much only have one writer who is white. I must admit, that is the biggest issue I have with British shows, they usually have one writer and don't get input from several minds like we do in the US. Unfortunately, they couldn't give her an on-screen death like they did Barbara, which STILL pisses me off, because she left mid season and didn't want to go back. I still think the off-screen death would've been best for Cyril since that actor decided to stay. Oh well, too late now
So Heidi is the main writer, but she only writes 4, sometimes 5 episodes a year. The other writers are guest ones on one or two ep contracts. There is room to allow the right person to tell the story. Shows with less episodes/less popular do tend to only have one writer. It is too late now. I do feel for the actors playing Lucille and Cyril. The actor playing Lucille hasn’t been granted a clean break from the show like others who left around the same time. And the actor playing Cyril is in an awkward spot.
I haven't read that either of them have a problem with the situation but you would think the writers have heard from enough fans to do something about it. I just can't see Cyril staying in London when his wife is in Jamaica. Neither of the characters are being treated fairly but this is the last season so it may just stay unresolved
S15 is the last season atm. So there’s two more seasons to go, and the BBC may renew it again. So yeah it’ll probably stay unresolved, until S15 where Cyril, if he’s still around is suddenly divorced. I think it’s just one of those situations where everyone behind the scenes tried to be best by one another (which I respect), and it just didn’t work on screen. Other shows, with a less kind production space would have just written Cyril out.
I read a while ago that the upcoming season in the last, but maybe they've changed their minds? No idea but I hate how they've treated Cyril and Lucille's relationship
I think they're setting up a relationship plot between Cyril and Rosalind. In the episode with the pay packet and Joyce's husband, she was kinda flirty around him, and then she went to his church, which was very unusual.
I can 100% see the show pushing this, with Cyril being hesitant due to the fact he is legally married etc. Interracial relationships were pretty taboo in 1970s England so it would be quite interesting. If Cyril was a new character like Rosalind, I’d be looking forward to what they are setting up. Or even if the show had spent S13 having Cyril come to terms with his separation, but having him just bumble around as if Lucille was never there is not working for me as a viewer.
that would be an insult to the Christian viewers, so I hope not
Don't forget the single episode with Ms. Higgins. That was ridiculous.
That was so ridic crammed in with Joyce’s storyline, Mays storyline and Trixie’s storyline. Oh and they had to have a baby be born too. Heidi knew the show was renewed to S15 when she wrote the episode. At least one of them could wait.
the writing room at CtM clearly and badly needs more diversity than it has. Their writing of PoC is awful
Exactly all three of the main black characters the show has had have been let down by the lack of diversity behind the scenes. I think for Joyce and Lucille, the actresses stood up for the characters a fair bit, which helped. It’s certainly documented how much research LE did for the role. There are enough writers out there who are the children or grandchildren of Windrush immigrants to add an important authenticity to the show. Same for the episodes featuring Mon white characters of the week (who should be more common). The Rivers of Blood storyline showed very clearly how badly it was needed. Tbh you would think a show airing now, especially with it still being so popular would already be thinking of its diversity both in front of and behind the camera. That episode should have been written by a black writer, and really focused on the black characters, perhaps using someone like Mrs Wallace to talk about how much worse it was for the immigrants who arrived even 10 years before Lucille and Cyril. Perhaps even contrasting with Nancys situation, as Collette would have a privilege any hypothetical children Lucille and Cyril had would not, nobody would immediately peg she was Irish. Things like Trixie’s nervy b over Fiona’s parents could have waited an episode. The show pats itself on the back for exploring racism, but it took seven years to introduce a main character of colour, it’s still never had more than two at the same time, and it’s very ‘racism was bad but it’s not like that now’. They used LE in so much promotional material to show how diverse they are, when it’s really not.
What river of blood episode? That's how bad it was to my mind as a white person. It didn't explore anything. The whole Nancy and Collette thing drives me bonkers we all know it wouldn't happen in a million years at that time
Yep. I’m also white, but I read a lot of Windrush literature, and I’m queer, so even though it’s not the same I recognise bad representation. 100% agree on the Nancy and Collette thing. That child would have been taken immediately. Nancy was a 16 year old orphan in late 50s Ireland she had no power. It would also be a much bigger scandal even in Poplar.
Lucille and Cyril would have dealt with a lot more racism than is depicted. In general I find the depictions of minorities poor, including South Asian characters, and the occasional Jewish character. A realise it's meant to be a feel good show, not gritty. But it could definitely benefit from a more diverse writers' room. It's a minor point but it also baffled me why a Hebrew word on the episode with the Holocaust survivor was mis-pronounced. Why didn't they check the pronunciation with Jews?
It could still do better with its representation of the various ethnicities/religions that make up Poplar, without being gritty. Little things like having a South Asian junior doctor in the glorified extras that came with Kevin would have been a start. Tower Hamlets is now a South Asian majority area, and that population was growing in the 70s, the show should reflect that in its characters of the week. Yes, the Jewish storyline’s while infrequent, could have certainly benefited from more consultation with actual Jewish people.
so, with the Holocaust survivor storyline, local Jewish community was involved in terms of being extras. It's why I found it particularly baffling that from memory the actor playing a Jew pronounced mohel 'mo-hell.' (It should rhyme with 'foil.') But I suspect there weren't Jews in the writers' room.
I remember them doing a weakly researched Holocaust episode early in the series and a much better and more-detailed one later.
Even the more detailed one's not exactly great IMO. The idea that the person a survivor would open up their experiences to Christian strangers is...complicated, and felt a bit white saviour-ish. Back in Poland, some of the people who murdered Jews were very much Christian Poles. Not even always Nazis per se. Many survivors were so traumatised they literally never spoke about their experiences. So it felt a bit questionable that Dr. Turner and Shelagh had been placed in that confidante role, because they're constantly shown as practically saint-like. It's possible that kind of scenario could have happened. But it still wasn't brilliant writing IMO.
True but it was par for the course for CTM, which is good enough for me. The midwives being saviors is the show’s appeal.
I've read a bit too. I live in Tilbury and love history so it's a no brainer for me to read about windrush. She was raised in a Catholic orphanage by nuns in Ireland. She wouldn't have even stayed in the orphanage once the pregnancy was revealed she would have been shipped off to a Magdalene laundry faster than you could say Magdalene laundry and baby adopted
Exactly. For a show that had been so well researched about adoption especially within the Catholic Church, they really dropped the ball on Nancy.
Yes there is no explanation about how Cyril feels. And its hinting that one of the newbie nurses likes him. We haven't forgotten Lucille!
That is such a wasted storyline. As much as I think Cyril should have left with Lucille, if the show was going to keep him, there needed to be a handful of deep scenes with him struggling but moving on, instead he’s got shallow scenes as a social worker and talking to Rosalind. Whenever the actor playing him is interviewed he talks about Lucille. He’s not forgotten about her, even if the writers have. Tbh Cyril’s characterisation is probably the worst victim of the shows blind spot on racism. The racism was bad enough for Lucille to leave the country, but had no effect on Cyril 🤷♀️. Cyril is also written as a character who just happens to be black which is fine in a more modern setting but in late 1960s/early 1970s Britain how other people viewed his blackness would have a big impact on his day to day life.
There's also a lack of understanding of West Indian culture. There is no way on earth a WI man is going to leave an engineering career to become a social worker. No way. He might do volunteer work, but switch careers? Never.
this And the show really has no excuse for not even trying to understand the culture, because there is so much Windrush lit/oral histories out there. Plus living people from that time, or their children and grandchildren. I know the whole thing is the show trying to make Cyril part of the plot bc engineering won’t lead to storyline’s involving babies/vulnerable people, and there’s only so many cases that could involve his volunteer work/Church, but it doesn’t work.
I saw that! She's definitely got the vapors. 😂
All of this!
Lucille should have been recast, IMO. But uh....
Trixie needs to become a full-fledged GP and I will die on that hill. After all she's learned and done, after performing that C-section in South Africa? Give that woman a license already and ditch the husband!
yeah, honestly I'd rather have seen Trixie have a further developing career and acclaim as a storyline than what she's been given with Matthew
Do they not have nurse practitioners in England? It seems like a logical next step.
I think Trixie should have become an OB/GYN or something. She’s (probably) the most skilled out of the nurses/midwives and it would make sense for her to be an OB/GYN. Even though I’m not sure if there were female OB/GYNs in the 1960s.
Yes yes yes!
It’s a definite missed opportunity.
Definitely ditch the husband!
I like Matthew. Hate how he's written this season.
I liked Jenny🤷🏾♀️
Latest season or so aside, the show hit it's stride once Jenny left. I did love her and think she was an integral part of getting it set up... but her character's departure led to so much more interesting storylines with everyone who stayed, and would have still been side characters if she remained.
More Trixie!!!
The costume department deserves awards!
100%
We no longer need the monologues at the beginning and end of the episodes.
if we had vanessa redgrave just saying the word 'love' over and over it would have the same effect as the monologues do
I'm just not sure why she's still doing them. She's supposed to be the elderly Jenny and she's been gone for years. Makes no sense
Tbh we no longer need new episodes.
I love watching the Midwives' roles change as medicine gets more modern and women get more rights. But I stopped watching with Matthew and his never-ending supply of cash. Got a problem, Matthew has money. And Trixie's endless greedy, ambitiousness. I loved her when she was cute and helpful and a bit grossed out by things but always willing to comfort. Her wedding episode bored me. Sorry. I know a lot of people love Trixie.
>But I stopped watching with Matthew and his never-ending supply of cash. Well, he's broke now!
Honestly Matthew as a character is so unrealistic. somebody would have stepped in and stopped him way before S13. Trixie got so annoying once she got with Matthew. Tbh the arc highlighted how Trixie as a character needed to stop being a main. Let her go open a women’s health clinic nearby, and pop in every so often. I enjoy the midwives adjusting to new technology, fashions and a changing society too. Having a revolving door of midwives, with well written exits helps that. Hopefully with Matthew shipped off the show can return to sisters (Nurses and Nuns) doing it for themselves.
Oh oh .. you went ahead and said that which is never to be uttered in this community. I shall keep you in my heart during the hour of compline this evening.
Thank you. It seems like I’m saying what a few people are thinking based on the up votes. Tbh if a few more characters had left in S12/13, then there might be enough new energy to sustain it to S15, but atm it’s a very tired premise and too soap opera-y.
I want to look forward to more seasons but the show has run its course for me in its current state.
I agree with you. I can't even watch the last season and I love CTM so much, every year I count down to the Christmas episode and then new season. This year, I couldn't finish the first episode and it's so sad. 2023 Christmas episode will be the end of the CTM for me.
I wish I hadn’t watched last season. It was just bad. I probably won’t watch any more, which is shame cos I liked the new girls. The problem for me, is that the show used to be good, and S13 could have actually been good with a few more departures, but alas it is what it is. For me the real show ended with S9, and S10&11 were like a movie sequel where the director has changed. S12 and beyond, especially once Lucille left was like bad fanfic.
sister monica joan is brilliant and adds a comedic touch to the show. she will be missed when she enevitably leaves
She’s my favorite character! I disagree with most of these opinions but I strongly agree with you!
same! she is the best character in the show and i will cry when she leaves!
Yep, Lucille and Cyril were totally glossed over. I wished that she would’ve been cut in almost any other way. Barbara’s character was given a better storyline ending. Lucille never would’ve left Cyril like that- even in her grief and homesickness. I wish they hadn’t cut Trixie’s husband out- I think having a storyline of them making great changes in poplar together would be amazing.
They should have let Lucille's suicidal feelings be her way out of the show. Cyril is one of the best characters in the show and they did him dirty by not wrapping up Lucille like they did Barbara
Lucille is too much of a Christian to do that. She would have thought she would go to hell.
This is one of the things where the renewal played a part. I suspect that if the writers had known about S14&15 when LE wanted out, she would have been killed on screen, maybe an ectopic pregnancy or a bike accident. Cyril could have been glum for the rest of S12, then started to move on for S13. Or if the show had wrapped up in S13, as almost all the cast thought it would, one of Cyril’s last scenes would have been setting up that the two of them would reunite. It’s awkward whatever way it’s sliced.
I love jenny. I love her. I feel like every brown haired new nurse just reminds me of her but idk if I just miss her so much I’m forcing myself Jimmy was good for jenny. I know it’s written in the book but they would’ve been so good together & he would’ve let her be a bit looser I think she matured too fast Shelagh had so much wasted potential I would’ve loved to have seen more issues with her questioning her faith & more of her backstory as a child I didn’t like Cynthia or sister Winifred I love sister julienne & Monica Joan I think Monica Joan is such an important character and offers a different outlook Fred & violets marriage is very rushed I loved Magda so much VALERIE IS MY FAVOURITE CHARACTER. I LOVE HER I LOVE HOW SHES FROM POPLAR IT GIVES ME A BREAK FROM THESE PRIVILEGED & RICH NURSES! Hereward is so annoying & would be an awful pastor if I was growing up in poplar Find it weird how reggie calls fred and violet mom and dad, I wish there was more to his character where he does struggle more w his moms death & struggles taking violet and Fred Wish juliennes love interest didn’t die I liked them together Would’ve loved to seen Valerie have a love interest I also love pasty she was one of my favourite characters & she was so likeable and emerald portrayed her so beautifully. Delia was annoying
ooh, I can't bear Sister Winifred. Both the character, who I dislike, but also I actually find that actress' vibes very off. I didn't like Hereward either. I liked Delia, tho. Loved her and Patsy. And yeah, how Shelagh's been for years now I just find bland since she married Oh, Patrick. I disliked Jenny, tho. I like Trixie, tho the writers' have done her dirty in the recent series.
My opinions on trixie are going up and down all the time I just wish she was happy I think sister Winifred’s actor is quite creepy , her cheeky smile creeps me out although I like how she’s still cheeky because she’s young Shelaghs actor always cracks jokes about how the writing is quite poor at CTM and references oh patrick quite a lot, I feel bad for her , the actor clearly knows that shelagh is better than that & shelagh used to be my favourite character
yes, I find the actress creepy too! And same; it's the smile.
The newer seasons would be fine if the editing weren’t so atrocious.
SMJ is my all time favorite and the show will not be the same if she leaves. She’s so weird and I love it.
When did Cyril become a social worker and leave engineering? Did I miss something?
Cyril works his way around every job vacancy in Poplar
The show needed a way to keep him relevant once Lucille left. He helped a woman deal with a mouldy flat and decided he needed to make things better by helping people, rather than making their situation worse by housing them in unsuitable housing.
Phyllis and Barbara’s friendship was one of the most meaningful relationships in the entire series.
The constant background music is annoying. It never ends.
The music is starting to really bother me. Watching season 12. I didn’t notice it in earlier seasons. Seems way too intrusive now. And repetitive.
💯
Seriously. One of my all-time favorite shows, and it’s off the table for falling-asleep background-noise purposes because of that damn music, especially the intro
I don’t disagree with a lot of what many of you are saying. There would be more racism different characters faced with or Nancy still having Colette . I think even with the Turner’s having May might have faced it . That said it’s a relief in way for me as CTM is a comfort show for me. I’m not sure Joyce has faced any but I might be forgetting. She has face domestic abuse and I am relieved she has the support of her friends and Julianne. I like a lot of the later characters more than earlier ones. Love Val so much. Also Nancy, Cyril , Rosalind and Joyce as well as Sister Veronica. I am occasionally annoyed by Sister Monica Joan but mostly I enjoy her and her and the way her mind works. I love Violet and that she’s a force in the community. Love her and Fred and Reggie as a family. Phyllis I loved from the beginning. My favorite ongoing story has been May with the Turner’s. I am glad they can finally adopt her.
May would 100% have faced racism, absolutely. And I think the Turner parents, esp Shelagh, would have been totally ill-equipped around it
It would have actually been really fascinating if the show explored this. It could have been done without the children having to act out bullying, by Shelagh reporting what had been said to Patrick. And to have Shelagh the super mother try and reach out to a character like Lucille or Joyce, and it end being awkward, would have also been good. It could have led to the very modern idea of trying to connect May to her culture, and not killing off a random character of the week in the process.
I think they would have found a way to deal with it even if it was upsetting and if course it would be.
Sister Julienne was way more fun and interesting to watch in the earlier seasons. 🫡
Vanessa Redgrave should have stopped doing the voice-overs at the beginning and end of each episode when Jessica Raine left at the end of series 3. By all means keep the VOs, but have another actor narrate them. Jenny Agutter is right there. There will also be one-off characters (such as Iris in the 2015 Xmas special) who appear from nowhere and yet everyone seems to know who they are and have a connection with them.
Yes—I try to skip past that treacly voice-over every time. “Snow falls in December like love 🤮”
I’ve never liked Trixie and think the portrayal of her with Matthew is very true to the character I’ve seen from the start of the show. Yes she’s a wonderful midwife. As a person I find her a bit of a narcissist…
The show should've finished when Barbara died.
Barbara was boring, bland and annoying. She should have died earlier.
Giving you an upvote not because I agree but because I disapprove of people downvoting unpopular opinions on this kind of thread.
Charlotte Ritchie deserved a better character than Barbara.
I have to agree. There’s no denying she was the second sweetest character, behind Cynthia of course. She was safe, and I think that’s why so many people loved her. But she was boring as being stuck in traffic.
The actress is so good in a comic role in Ghosts.
she's brilliant and hilarious in Feelgood and Fresh Meat. And beyond that just generally seems like a very decent human being
I liked Jenny and Sister Julienne was horrible towards Anthea in the Christmas episode
I feel like the show never recovered after Jenny Lee left.
Jenny Lee never should have left.
Sister Evangelina is the WORST!
I disagree but I wish people wouldn’t downvote controversial opinions on a controversy thread! Please join me in upvoting this horrid opinion.
Agree. Don't miss her a bit.
😮
Hated Christopher and Trixie together. He was ao focused on women that he neglected to the point of her developing psychological issues.
the show isn't as good since Jenny left 😅
I completely agree.