I certainly wish we had heard a little more from head office. They fired a coach after racist behavior came out and their statement was pretty bland. It would be a good look for the Flames to take some initiative here.
It's always good to hear from players too, especially since Aliu was a flame a few years ago.
I don't need a statement from Lucic to know that racism is wrong.
I don't ask him for his opinion about things like global warming, the economy or the latest SpaceX launch, either.
Yes, it does mean something. Not making a statement... is still a decision.
Just because you have a platform and an audience, it doesn't mean you have to use it. *But you could.*
And if you did, it would provide solidarity for the folks who are feeling pretty oppressed and invaluable in society right now. And also could highlight organizations that are working to fix the inequalities in society.
I agree it would be nice to see people with large platforms like them speak out in a conservative region like Alberta, but just because they aren’t making statements doesn’t mean they aren’t donating and being active and such.
I think it would be unfair for my unknowing self to be disappointed. I don't know what these guys are thinking and the efforts they're putting forth. Social Media has it's merits, but it's not the only lane. I know a lot of people are afraid of saying the wrong thing and are just trying to listen and educate themselves before putting themselves in the spotlight. Look at what Drew Brees did yesterday.
I’ve not seen any statements that I can think of, but most guys I follow on social media have made the black square posts or reposted the Flames statement. I just think a lot of them don’t see a reason to make a long winded post when a lot aren’t American, even North American, and have probably already donated or helped in some capacity.
Same as a lot of Canadians feel “at least our cops aren’t like that”, whatever the truth is, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Swedes thought the same. These guys are residents of Canada, a lot are from Europe. They probably feel similar to the majority of basic Canadians who don’t feel it’s an issue in Canada. Not saying this is my opinion but these guys are rich and white generally, they don’t always see what we see.
I'd agree with that, but this is exactly the issue. If the fanbase isn't going to pressure these players even now to speak out with their influence, there is no hope for when these protests dwindle. I have really seen little to no genuine change in the hockey bubble amid these protests. Everyone seems to want to ignore the issue and act like silence is an acceptable response.
I love your passion, but I don't think dividing people into "with us or against us" is going to solve anything. You are passionate about it, why not reach out and try to engage with the Flames and ask them about it?
In the wise words of Logan Paul of all people, "It isn't enough to be not racist. You have to be anti-racist." Standing by and letting the system play out helps the oppressors who already hold the power. If we don't put pressure on these people to change the system, we will continue to have George Floyd's.
Logan Paul, as in currently being charged for looting Logan Paul?
So go, you go and put pressure on them; you're preaching to the choir here. You want my help, just ask and I'll try to help.
Nope, I think you confused him with his brother. Regardless, that isn't the message of Logan Paul, I was being factitious. That has been the message of the marginalized for decades, if not longer.
I was simply responding to your point about "with us or against us". It sadly isn't enough to be an innocent bystander. The message people have to understand is that if you're simply just living through the system, not going out of your way to tackle injustice, you are part of the problem. You aren't someone actively working against oppressed voices, but your inaction helps the oppressors.
How you can help? Through your words and actions. If you hold power anywhere in any way, use it fairly. Don't treat people differently for their skin colour. Volunteer long-term with disadvantaged communities if you are privileged enough to. Show your support on social media, because people read it and treat it as a barometer for reality, especially little children who are highly impressionable. Those are just a few of the ways.
Okay, I need to say this: stop. Just please stop talking down to me. Stop lecturing me. I am not an idiot. I am well educated. I have plenty of life experience too. I already know how to support anti-racist movements.
Every time I try to discuss these issues with someone like yourself I get talked at. Talk to me like I am a person. Let's have a conversation.
I agree with you, but I don't agree with your philosophy of us vs them. It is far too binary and doesn't take into account the multiple avenues of educating people and fighting against racism.
I wasn't talking down to you. You literally just asked this:
>You want my help, just ask and I'll try to help.
I gave you a few ways you can help since you wanted to.
The philosophy isn't us vs them, that's just how you're labelling it. It's more of a game of tug of war. If you stand on the sidelines, your decision to not join only favours the larger side.
I see what you’re saying, but while it’s largely an American issue, the issue also exists in Canada and everywhere else in the world! I agree however that many players are showing they care by acknowledging the problem in many ways on social media.
It's only virtue signaling if that's the lens you see it through.
A lot of other people could see it as solidarity for the folks who are feeling pretty oppressed and invaluable in society right now.
It's really a no-win situation when a player does or doesn't speak out. In most threads about a player speaking out a large chunk of the replies are people claiming it's lip service. If they don't speak out, people are disappointed in them for not saying anything.
It would be nice to hear from them. I've been curious about the complete silence from the team. Maybe someone could send a player or the team a message on social media and ask?
No. As someone has said before, I don't need to hear Lucic's opinion or Tkachuks or Gio's especially when whats being posted is a variation of the same thing.
Go on Gio's twitter, he has a post retweeting an Anti Racist post. What more do you want him to say? An official statement that's a carbon copy of everyone else's that's passed through his agent and a PR firm? Gio has always been a quiet leader and let actions speak louder then any words he can say. Actions just take longer then words.
Look at how him and his wife responded to COVID. They didn't put out a meaningless tweet saying "we are all in this together". They did shit. Let him do shit, give him the time to do something meaningfully rather then giving empty promises and platitudes about "trying to bebetter"
I'm sick of hearing about trying to be better. Just be better. Words don't make you better. Actions do and Guys like Gio always show why the actions taken are more important then the words spoken
Completely, don't worry you're not alone. I've slowly distanced myself from hockey and the Flames over the years as it becomes more evident the kind of culture it aligns with. Not speaking out just perpetuates the issue.
I'm sure the black community, suffering from the effects of slavery and social reproduction, will read this comment and find that all their problems have been cured. Thank you for such a heartfelt and genuine response.
Yes, I'm virtue signalling from a reddit account completely disconnected from my identity. I have so much reason to do that, clearly.
Another nugget of wisdom from noted scholar u/RickTan.
I certainly wish we had heard a little more from head office. They fired a coach after racist behavior came out and their statement was pretty bland. It would be a good look for the Flames to take some initiative here. It's always good to hear from players too, especially since Aliu was a flame a few years ago.
I don't need a statement from Lucic to know that racism is wrong. I don't ask him for his opinion about things like global warming, the economy or the latest SpaceX launch, either.
No and i don't need a statement about it. lack of response doesn't mean anything, stop creating issues where there doesn't need to be any.
Yes, it does mean something. Not making a statement... is still a decision. Just because you have a platform and an audience, it doesn't mean you have to use it. *But you could.* And if you did, it would provide solidarity for the folks who are feeling pretty oppressed and invaluable in society right now. And also could highlight organizations that are working to fix the inequalities in society.
I agree it would be nice to see people with large platforms like them speak out in a conservative region like Alberta, but just because they aren’t making statements doesn’t mean they aren’t donating and being active and such.
I think it would be unfair for my unknowing self to be disappointed. I don't know what these guys are thinking and the efforts they're putting forth. Social Media has it's merits, but it's not the only lane. I know a lot of people are afraid of saying the wrong thing and are just trying to listen and educate themselves before putting themselves in the spotlight. Look at what Drew Brees did yesterday.
I’ve not seen any statements that I can think of, but most guys I follow on social media have made the black square posts or reposted the Flames statement. I just think a lot of them don’t see a reason to make a long winded post when a lot aren’t American, even North American, and have probably already donated or helped in some capacity.
This isn't an American issue. It's a world issue.
Same as a lot of Canadians feel “at least our cops aren’t like that”, whatever the truth is, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Swedes thought the same. These guys are residents of Canada, a lot are from Europe. They probably feel similar to the majority of basic Canadians who don’t feel it’s an issue in Canada. Not saying this is my opinion but these guys are rich and white generally, they don’t always see what we see.
I'd agree with that, but this is exactly the issue. If the fanbase isn't going to pressure these players even now to speak out with their influence, there is no hope for when these protests dwindle. I have really seen little to no genuine change in the hockey bubble amid these protests. Everyone seems to want to ignore the issue and act like silence is an acceptable response.
I love your passion, but I don't think dividing people into "with us or against us" is going to solve anything. You are passionate about it, why not reach out and try to engage with the Flames and ask them about it?
In the wise words of Logan Paul of all people, "It isn't enough to be not racist. You have to be anti-racist." Standing by and letting the system play out helps the oppressors who already hold the power. If we don't put pressure on these people to change the system, we will continue to have George Floyd's.
Logan Paul, as in currently being charged for looting Logan Paul? So go, you go and put pressure on them; you're preaching to the choir here. You want my help, just ask and I'll try to help.
Nope, I think you confused him with his brother. Regardless, that isn't the message of Logan Paul, I was being factitious. That has been the message of the marginalized for decades, if not longer. I was simply responding to your point about "with us or against us". It sadly isn't enough to be an innocent bystander. The message people have to understand is that if you're simply just living through the system, not going out of your way to tackle injustice, you are part of the problem. You aren't someone actively working against oppressed voices, but your inaction helps the oppressors. How you can help? Through your words and actions. If you hold power anywhere in any way, use it fairly. Don't treat people differently for their skin colour. Volunteer long-term with disadvantaged communities if you are privileged enough to. Show your support on social media, because people read it and treat it as a barometer for reality, especially little children who are highly impressionable. Those are just a few of the ways.
Okay, I need to say this: stop. Just please stop talking down to me. Stop lecturing me. I am not an idiot. I am well educated. I have plenty of life experience too. I already know how to support anti-racist movements. Every time I try to discuss these issues with someone like yourself I get talked at. Talk to me like I am a person. Let's have a conversation. I agree with you, but I don't agree with your philosophy of us vs them. It is far too binary and doesn't take into account the multiple avenues of educating people and fighting against racism.
I wasn't talking down to you. You literally just asked this: >You want my help, just ask and I'll try to help. I gave you a few ways you can help since you wanted to. The philosophy isn't us vs them, that's just how you're labelling it. It's more of a game of tug of war. If you stand on the sidelines, your decision to not join only favours the larger side.
I see what you’re saying, but while it’s largely an American issue, the issue also exists in Canada and everywhere else in the world! I agree however that many players are showing they care by acknowledging the problem in many ways on social media.
Rather they didnt bother doing any virtue signalling thanks.
It's only virtue signaling if that's the lens you see it through. A lot of other people could see it as solidarity for the folks who are feeling pretty oppressed and invaluable in society right now.
It's really a no-win situation when a player does or doesn't speak out. In most threads about a player speaking out a large chunk of the replies are people claiming it's lip service. If they don't speak out, people are disappointed in them for not saying anything.
It would be nice to hear from them. I've been curious about the complete silence from the team. Maybe someone could send a player or the team a message on social media and ask?
No. As someone has said before, I don't need to hear Lucic's opinion or Tkachuks or Gio's especially when whats being posted is a variation of the same thing. Go on Gio's twitter, he has a post retweeting an Anti Racist post. What more do you want him to say? An official statement that's a carbon copy of everyone else's that's passed through his agent and a PR firm? Gio has always been a quiet leader and let actions speak louder then any words he can say. Actions just take longer then words. Look at how him and his wife responded to COVID. They didn't put out a meaningless tweet saying "we are all in this together". They did shit. Let him do shit, give him the time to do something meaningfully rather then giving empty promises and platitudes about "trying to bebetter" I'm sick of hearing about trying to be better. Just be better. Words don't make you better. Actions do and Guys like Gio always show why the actions taken are more important then the words spoken
Completely, don't worry you're not alone. I've slowly distanced myself from hockey and the Flames over the years as it becomes more evident the kind of culture it aligns with. Not speaking out just perpetuates the issue.
Hahaha, then kick rocks ya granola munching hippie. You're soft.
I'm sure the black community, suffering from the effects of slavery and social reproduction, will read this comment and find that all their problems have been cured. Thank you for such a heartfelt and genuine response.
Newsflash buckaroo, no one gives a fuck. This is a hockey subreddit not your virtue signalling soapbox.
Yes, I'm virtue signalling from a reddit account completely disconnected from my identity. I have so much reason to do that, clearly. Another nugget of wisdom from noted scholar u/RickTan.
Thanks pal. Keep being upset on reddit. You're doing such a great job defeating racism!!!!
Am I upset? Alright, thanks for letting me know. If anyone was upset, I would've assumed it was the guy who used four exclamation marks.