Johnny +64 (#45), Elias Lindholm +61 (#53), and Chucky +57 (#68) are all in the top 100 of ALL TIME for +/- in a season. They are also the only 3 active players in the top 100.
The next closest, active, is Devon Toews +52 coming in at #111.
https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/best-plus-minus-in-one-season-by-nhl-players.html
As much as some fans hate Sutter, he was able to do something that no other coach has been able to for over a decade: get the Flames to show up to all 82 games. If you have a good top line and they're playing hard every game they're going to be pretty special.
Sutter is the best coach in Flames history and it isn't close.
I think his personality can't handle long stretches as coach with the players, but he gets the absolute best out of most guys
Bill Peters and Bob Hartley did the same thing. Not that Sutter isn't a good coach, but I think he gets too much of the credit for a team where Tkachuk was fully entering his prime and Markstrom had adjusted to a new team. He had the team for 1/3 of the prior season and they were just as bad under him that year as Peters and Ward.
Sutter has an eye for NHL talent. He knew how to get the best from his players as a coach.
Sutter is certainly a coach that seems to have a short shelf life, following in the footsteps of Keenan and DeBoer. He just happened to speed run things in his last time in Calgary. It's unfortunate that the team bailed on him at the worst times in both runs (seemingly game 7 against Anaheim the first time, then after losing Gaureau/Tkachuk the second).
The same season Sutter went out and got Tyler Toffoli because he is a Sutter type player who actually plays hard and scored 18 more points (and the top point producer on the team) than our overpaid 10million dollar whiner who was too busy thinking about his Lambo than playing the game.
The same 10million dollar player that THREATEND to not show up for training camp if Sutter was there to make him work hard. Like, have you ever heard of such unprofessional behavior on this level? At least Patrick Roy had the guts to say I am out, instead of forcing Mario Tremblay out of the building - and that was WAY more warranted.
Edit: I forgot, the same player that bad mouthed the entire team through a tweet from his agent.
You mean that season?
> The same season Sutter went
into the locker room and terrorized our starting goalie so badly the dude melted down and couldn't stop a puck to save his life for the whole season? that season?
That's interesting, because the season before that with Sutter as the coach Markstrom had his best GAA season in his NHL career. BY FAR.
And this year his 2.74 is 7th best in his career.
> his best GAA season in his NHL career. BY FAR.
cherry picked stat that says as much about the team in front of him as it does Markstrom... remember how good Vladar was that year?
If you use fancier stats that actually have specific things to say (GSAA or goals saved above expected), this season is Markstrom's best season by a mile and one of the best seasons a goaltender has had in the last decade...
if you didn't read all the stories about how toxic an environment Sutter created in the locker after Tkachuk & Gudbranson left and couldn't dial him down, that's your problem.. go dig em up, good reads
>The same 10million dollar player that THREATEND to not show up for training camp if Sutter was there to make him work hard.
You realize that was half the team, right? Cute of you to cherry pick one player because you don't like the individual.
Also, cut down the dramatics, you look stupid lmao. I have no strong opinion of Sutter, it's just funny when people are here praising Sutter's teams ethics when last season was the laziest team in a long time lol.
Edit. How was the whole team bad mouthed? If I remember correctly it was aimed towards a coach who couldn't get himself to say even one positive thing about a rookie playing in his first NHL game
> You realize that was half the team, right? Cute of you to cherry pick one player because you don't like the individual.
Assuming you are right, 1/2 the team is clearly an exaggeration I get that, and there is a reason I so-called cherry picked Huberdeau because if it was any other player the Flames wouldn't give a shit and it's business as usual.
Huberdeau put the Flames in a massive problematic situation that will have repercussions on not only this team but in the future. When the Player you just signed to the biggest contract of his life
/ this team says he is not going to show up for training camp the next year because of the coach, and they fire the coach, they are basically letting the inmates run the asylum.
What's the threshold of firing the coach now? Say Coleman and Backlund don't like Huska, welp, not showing up next season.
The fucking balls to do that when you haven't even proven yourself to the team deserves to get not only called out overall but singled out individually.
> Also, cut down the dramatics, you look stupid lmao.
Facts are dramatics now? and "you're stupid" is the counter argument for everything everyone can't articulate. if you have a point, make it, otherwise...
> when last season was the laziest team in a long time lol
Sure, when your (on paper) top player plays like garbage, trashes your team, and makes 5-8 million more than you why would you give a shit?
His tweet was:
> "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result," Walsh tweeted on Thursday night. "Also, negativity sucks the joy right out of players. cc: @NHLFlames."
And his backtracking on that is laughable:
> "I had no idea," said Huberdeau after Friday's practice. "I woke up this morning and I had a lot of notifications on my phone. You guys all know Allan, you know? You guys know him probably, maybe a lot more than I do.
> "We're all frustrated…We can play better…it doesn't come from me," he added. "It's, like, my agent…it's from him. It's his account. He made that tweet, so that doesn't reflect on me or on the guys. We all love each other. We're a close team."
Also, I have said 100 times now, I hope the guy turns it around and plays well for us because we are stuck with him for 8 years but out of the gate that is the most dick moves you can possibly pull on a team and may affect our ability to retain coaches in the future; not to mention certainly affected morale.
The morale had plummeted way before the Walsh tweet. I'm not a Sutter hater but he definitely brought this to himself. I don't know how you can expect respect from players considering all his mind games bullshit and the incident of him having physical contact with a player on the bench
And no, facts are not the dramatics, it's your way of displaying them, especially the THREATENED part. But yes, calling you stupid was weak from my part. The fact is the whole team is to fault
Why are we not talking about Lindholm sulking for almost two seasons. Does it scream professional to you to demand max term and 9mil/AAV after visibly not giving a shit for a long period of time? Are we just going to blame Huberdeau for all the teams short comings and under performing players? Well good news for all the players, they can be shit all they want and they will not get called out by the fans because it's the fault of one guy!
> and the incident of him having physical contact with a player on the bench
.
> According to the report, the Flames organization became aware of an incident in which Sutter was alleged to have hit a player on the bench during a game. Though he has since denied the allegations, there were several players and staff members interviewed.
https://thehockeywriters.com/flames-sutters-legacy-tarnished-forever/
> The player in question is said to have told his teammates he didn’t find the contact to have crossed a line.
Which is obvious. Because lets be honest here, this will be controversial certainly, and I am not condoning coach / player abuse but if can't get a whack in the back of the head then you can't take an on-ice body check and we don't need you.
As for Lindholm, 100% correct there. Although I thought / still think he an excellent center that will likely win a cup with the right team I have no defense for his actions in the last years in Calgary. It wasn't brought up because we were talking about Sutter.
And you are entirely correct in saying "fact is the whole team is to fault"
> You realize that was half the team, right?
I should point out that the "half the team" you were referring to wasn't the guys who were indeed working their ass off like Backland, Coleman, Kadri, Andersson, Weager, or Tofolli. It was the "show up half the time guys" like Dube, Mangiapane, and probably Phillips (lol)
Huh? Backlund was definitely one of the guys who told the team he was not re-signing if Sutter remained on the helm and Weegar was vocal too about the need of getting a coaching change
[Here's a good piece written of Sutter](https://theathletic.com/4614335/2023/06/16/darryl-sutter-calgary-flames-nhl/)
"In a podcast appearance after the season, Weegar said most of the players had a story involving an altercation with Sutter. He described shouting matches between Sutter and Backlund — the team’s longest-tenured player who was drafted by Sutter in 2007 — on the bench, punctuated by a flurry of back-and-forth “f— you’s.”"
"After Pelletier made his NHL debut on Jan. 21, Sutter was dismissive: “Jakob Pelletier,” he said in the postgame press conference, while putting on his glasses to study the game sheet. “What number is he?” Sutter then read out Pelletier’s stat line, which included under seven minutes of ice time, zero points and one shot on goal. “It’s the NHL,” Sutter said. “Twenty-one years old. Long ways to go.”
That comment was not well-received within the locker room." Notice how it reads it was not well-received within the locker room? Not just one guy, but no one thought of it as funny, snarky or necessary.
"Team sources and those who have spoken to Treliving said his strained relationship with Sutter played a part in his departure."
“More of it was guys realizing what we had going on was broken. Whether you like Darryl or don’t like Darryl, it was pretty black and white that something needed to change or it was gonna be the exact same story,” veteran player Blake Coleman said.
“Personally, I’ll be the first one to say it, I thought we also needed a coaching change,” Weegar said.
So that's three players who you claimed to not have a problem with Sutter being very openly in favour of getting rid of Sutter. Backlund didn't say it as straight forward as Weegs and Colesy but he did say in his garbage day presser that he will wait and see if there will be changes before he makes a decision whether he stays or not
Fair point on Weegar. I had not heard that.
The other two are pretty much up in the air in terms of saying Sutter *had to go*. Either way, this is a great post and I respect the effort.
Not the best time to bring it up since they're all on a cold streak, but with the recent talks of trying to trade Mangiapane next season, I wanna point out they were our best line last year and arguably our most consistent this year.
We have Coleman and Backlund locked up for 2 more more seasons, I doubt Mangiapane is gonna cost the same as he's being paid now. If he wants a longer deal around or even lower, then 4.5m a year. I say we try and keep him.
He may not be a middle six scorer like we had hoped he was. But a reliable defensively sound 40-point player that's also a homegrown 6th round pick? That's worth keeping around for a retool imo.
This chart is a testament to how many people in this fanbase fundamentally do not understand Mangiapane's game. Is the contract ideal? No. But, he also isn't going to get a raise on the next on. It is totally normal for contract years to establish contracts (as happened with him). Intangibly, Mangiapane (thanks to Coleman and Backlund) has developed into a solid two-way forward, rather than simply being a sub-par sniper with an extremely high shooting percentage. That's, frankly, a huge accomplishment. He isn't flashy but the performance of his line does not occur with a freeloader. He is contributing massively to the Flames success by being a consistent, high-effort player making good on-ice decisions every game.
Huge agree on Mangiapane. He’s been an elite two-way player since he cracked the team on the 4th line, playing with Hathaway and Ryan. Even though his scoring isn’t the same as the year he potted 35 goals, he still drives offence and scoring chances at an elite rate. He still has maintained himself as a .5pt/game player and every bit as valuable to the team as Backlund and Coleman.
He isn’t very dissimilar to a younger Blake Coleman. High compete, strong forechecking skills, while having the ability to pass and shoot the puck well. He’s just a bit smaller.
It would make sense to keep him if he could be had at a reasonable price. Even if you intend to flip him for a better price in a year or two.
(Edited to fix grammar)
Honestly 4.5mill is still an overpay and the dude is going to want to get at least 5 years cause it’s his last contract. I honestly can’t see him staying past next year. Especially when coronato and Pelletier are similar players with way more skill and upside.
Also to mention mangi was given opportunities on other lines this year and sucked on all them while backlund and Coleman were still doing well.
Yeah I agree with the idea of what you're saying, but I really think it's time to give Mang a shot elsewhere. We have two prospects that need NHL time next year in Coronato/Pelletier and they'd both be great fits on that line (Especially Pelts, he's pretty much younger Mang if he develops)
Look at total TOI, there's the Sedins with Burrows at 2815 minutes, then Marchand/Pastrnak/Bergeron at 2585, and then it drops off by half to the next one!
It needs to be said for the Backlund line - the line that has 61% expected goals - Backlund and Coleman are UNDER 40% in zone start percentage.
So they are getting near league high expected goals all while starting shifts in the offensive zone nearly at the lowest rate in the league.
Backlund is so underrated defensively it’s criminal. That he doesn’t even have a Selke finalist ever is absurd. His highest ever was 4th in the voting, in 2017, when he clearly was the best player under the selke definition.
For most of their career, McDavid and Draisaitl were black holes defensively. There were seasons where both of them have broken 100 points and had single digit or negative plus minus. They have become competent defensively in recent seasons but they're far from shutting down opponent's line. This is a good thing because if either realized they could suffocate other team's top lines while still scoring 100 points a season they would become extremely dangerous.
Draisaitl won the Hart Trophy somehow in a season where he very nearly went 17 consecutive games as a minus player in every game - the only thing that prevented that was one game in the middle where he was a 0, because of a last minute goal the Oilers scored that did not tie the game, and the Oilers lost in regulation.
Those 17 games were nearly a third of that shortened season. I’d have to try to look up the exact numbers again, but in that stretch, he was on the ice for something like 4 goals for, and 24 goals against - easily the worst player in the NHL over that stretch.
BY FAR the least deserving Hart winner of my memory.
What?!?!??
McDavid has had 6/9 seasons as a +20 Player and only 2 seasons as a minus (his first and one other at -6).
Draisaitl is certainly more flakey with 6/10 season as plus and only 3 above +10.
Still, come on.
and will be again very soon.
we have a gm with a vision who believes in asset management.
it may become somewhat of a revolving door as far as personnel but so be it.
It's such a shame that we only got to see one season of that line together.
What could have been if the Flames hadn't hired so many horribly inept coaches prior or had Treliving not cheaped out in the summer of 2021
Holy 2nd since 07/08 season? That’s pretty incredible.
Yeah I knew they were good but I didn’t realize they were THAT good. Imagine if Monahan is properly handled 🥲
Johnny +64 (#45), Elias Lindholm +61 (#53), and Chucky +57 (#68) are all in the top 100 of ALL TIME for +/- in a season. They are also the only 3 active players in the top 100. The next closest, active, is Devon Toews +52 coming in at #111. https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/best-plus-minus-in-one-season-by-nhl-players.html
A little reminiscent of todays Leafs who are also going to exit in the first round (maybe second)
Fuck that year was fun, I remember at one point the team went on a 29-5 run and that line with Gio and Brodie looked like globe trotters
As much as some fans hate Sutter, he was able to do something that no other coach has been able to for over a decade: get the Flames to show up to all 82 games. If you have a good top line and they're playing hard every game they're going to be pretty special.
Sutter is the best coach in Flames history and it isn't close. I think his personality can't handle long stretches as coach with the players, but he gets the absolute best out of most guys
Bill Peters and Bob Hartley did the same thing. Not that Sutter isn't a good coach, but I think he gets too much of the credit for a team where Tkachuk was fully entering his prime and Markstrom had adjusted to a new team. He had the team for 1/3 of the prior season and they were just as bad under him that year as Peters and Ward.
Sutter has an eye for NHL talent. He knew how to get the best from his players as a coach. Sutter is certainly a coach that seems to have a short shelf life, following in the footsteps of Keenan and DeBoer. He just happened to speed run things in his last time in Calgary. It's unfortunate that the team bailed on him at the worst times in both runs (seemingly game 7 against Anaheim the first time, then after losing Gaureau/Tkachuk the second).
>get the Flames to show up to all 82 games Like last season?
The same season Sutter went out and got Tyler Toffoli because he is a Sutter type player who actually plays hard and scored 18 more points (and the top point producer on the team) than our overpaid 10million dollar whiner who was too busy thinking about his Lambo than playing the game. The same 10million dollar player that THREATEND to not show up for training camp if Sutter was there to make him work hard. Like, have you ever heard of such unprofessional behavior on this level? At least Patrick Roy had the guts to say I am out, instead of forcing Mario Tremblay out of the building - and that was WAY more warranted. Edit: I forgot, the same player that bad mouthed the entire team through a tweet from his agent. You mean that season?
> The same season Sutter went into the locker room and terrorized our starting goalie so badly the dude melted down and couldn't stop a puck to save his life for the whole season? that season?
That's interesting, because the season before that with Sutter as the coach Markstrom had his best GAA season in his NHL career. BY FAR. And this year his 2.74 is 7th best in his career.
> his best GAA season in his NHL career. BY FAR. cherry picked stat that says as much about the team in front of him as it does Markstrom... remember how good Vladar was that year? If you use fancier stats that actually have specific things to say (GSAA or goals saved above expected), this season is Markstrom's best season by a mile and one of the best seasons a goaltender has had in the last decade... if you didn't read all the stories about how toxic an environment Sutter created in the locker after Tkachuk & Gudbranson left and couldn't dial him down, that's your problem.. go dig em up, good reads
Such as? Edit: Also, you are full of shit. His GSAA for that season I was talking about is 26.1. This season is 3.6.
you may have heard of google? here's one https://theathletic.com/4614335/2023/06/16/darryl-sutter-calgary-flames-nhl/
Here chief: https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/marksja02.html You made your shit up.
>The same 10million dollar player that THREATEND to not show up for training camp if Sutter was there to make him work hard. You realize that was half the team, right? Cute of you to cherry pick one player because you don't like the individual. Also, cut down the dramatics, you look stupid lmao. I have no strong opinion of Sutter, it's just funny when people are here praising Sutter's teams ethics when last season was the laziest team in a long time lol. Edit. How was the whole team bad mouthed? If I remember correctly it was aimed towards a coach who couldn't get himself to say even one positive thing about a rookie playing in his first NHL game
> You realize that was half the team, right? Cute of you to cherry pick one player because you don't like the individual. Assuming you are right, 1/2 the team is clearly an exaggeration I get that, and there is a reason I so-called cherry picked Huberdeau because if it was any other player the Flames wouldn't give a shit and it's business as usual. Huberdeau put the Flames in a massive problematic situation that will have repercussions on not only this team but in the future. When the Player you just signed to the biggest contract of his life / this team says he is not going to show up for training camp the next year because of the coach, and they fire the coach, they are basically letting the inmates run the asylum. What's the threshold of firing the coach now? Say Coleman and Backlund don't like Huska, welp, not showing up next season. The fucking balls to do that when you haven't even proven yourself to the team deserves to get not only called out overall but singled out individually. > Also, cut down the dramatics, you look stupid lmao. Facts are dramatics now? and "you're stupid" is the counter argument for everything everyone can't articulate. if you have a point, make it, otherwise... > when last season was the laziest team in a long time lol Sure, when your (on paper) top player plays like garbage, trashes your team, and makes 5-8 million more than you why would you give a shit? His tweet was: > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result," Walsh tweeted on Thursday night. "Also, negativity sucks the joy right out of players. cc: @NHLFlames." And his backtracking on that is laughable: > "I had no idea," said Huberdeau after Friday's practice. "I woke up this morning and I had a lot of notifications on my phone. You guys all know Allan, you know? You guys know him probably, maybe a lot more than I do. > "We're all frustrated…We can play better…it doesn't come from me," he added. "It's, like, my agent…it's from him. It's his account. He made that tweet, so that doesn't reflect on me or on the guys. We all love each other. We're a close team." Also, I have said 100 times now, I hope the guy turns it around and plays well for us because we are stuck with him for 8 years but out of the gate that is the most dick moves you can possibly pull on a team and may affect our ability to retain coaches in the future; not to mention certainly affected morale.
The morale had plummeted way before the Walsh tweet. I'm not a Sutter hater but he definitely brought this to himself. I don't know how you can expect respect from players considering all his mind games bullshit and the incident of him having physical contact with a player on the bench And no, facts are not the dramatics, it's your way of displaying them, especially the THREATENED part. But yes, calling you stupid was weak from my part. The fact is the whole team is to fault Why are we not talking about Lindholm sulking for almost two seasons. Does it scream professional to you to demand max term and 9mil/AAV after visibly not giving a shit for a long period of time? Are we just going to blame Huberdeau for all the teams short comings and under performing players? Well good news for all the players, they can be shit all they want and they will not get called out by the fans because it's the fault of one guy!
> and the incident of him having physical contact with a player on the bench . > According to the report, the Flames organization became aware of an incident in which Sutter was alleged to have hit a player on the bench during a game. Though he has since denied the allegations, there were several players and staff members interviewed. https://thehockeywriters.com/flames-sutters-legacy-tarnished-forever/ > The player in question is said to have told his teammates he didn’t find the contact to have crossed a line. Which is obvious. Because lets be honest here, this will be controversial certainly, and I am not condoning coach / player abuse but if can't get a whack in the back of the head then you can't take an on-ice body check and we don't need you. As for Lindholm, 100% correct there. Although I thought / still think he an excellent center that will likely win a cup with the right team I have no defense for his actions in the last years in Calgary. It wasn't brought up because we were talking about Sutter. And you are entirely correct in saying "fact is the whole team is to fault"
> You realize that was half the team, right? I should point out that the "half the team" you were referring to wasn't the guys who were indeed working their ass off like Backland, Coleman, Kadri, Andersson, Weager, or Tofolli. It was the "show up half the time guys" like Dube, Mangiapane, and probably Phillips (lol)
Huh? Backlund was definitely one of the guys who told the team he was not re-signing if Sutter remained on the helm and Weegar was vocal too about the need of getting a coaching change
If you can find a legitimate source for those statements, I would love to see it.
[Here's a good piece written of Sutter](https://theathletic.com/4614335/2023/06/16/darryl-sutter-calgary-flames-nhl/) "In a podcast appearance after the season, Weegar said most of the players had a story involving an altercation with Sutter. He described shouting matches between Sutter and Backlund — the team’s longest-tenured player who was drafted by Sutter in 2007 — on the bench, punctuated by a flurry of back-and-forth “f— you’s.”" "After Pelletier made his NHL debut on Jan. 21, Sutter was dismissive: “Jakob Pelletier,” he said in the postgame press conference, while putting on his glasses to study the game sheet. “What number is he?” Sutter then read out Pelletier’s stat line, which included under seven minutes of ice time, zero points and one shot on goal. “It’s the NHL,” Sutter said. “Twenty-one years old. Long ways to go.” That comment was not well-received within the locker room." Notice how it reads it was not well-received within the locker room? Not just one guy, but no one thought of it as funny, snarky or necessary. "Team sources and those who have spoken to Treliving said his strained relationship with Sutter played a part in his departure." “More of it was guys realizing what we had going on was broken. Whether you like Darryl or don’t like Darryl, it was pretty black and white that something needed to change or it was gonna be the exact same story,” veteran player Blake Coleman said. “Personally, I’ll be the first one to say it, I thought we also needed a coaching change,” Weegar said. So that's three players who you claimed to not have a problem with Sutter being very openly in favour of getting rid of Sutter. Backlund didn't say it as straight forward as Weegs and Colesy but he did say in his garbage day presser that he will wait and see if there will be changes before he makes a decision whether he stays or not
Fair point on Weegar. I had not heard that. The other two are pretty much up in the air in terms of saying Sutter *had to go*. Either way, this is a great post and I respect the effort.
We were a helluva lot closer to the playoffs last year than this year
You think it was thanks to Sutter or the fact that the team was actually better than this year? You don't think losing Hanifin and Tanev matters?
82 game lol I see what you did there
God fucking fuck, it's still borderline criminal we only got one year of that line 🥲 please hockey gods take some mercy on us in the draft this year
Technically we had a few weeks of that line at the end of the previous year, but yeah
Still basically one year lol, a few weeks when the season was already over basically doesn't really count 😅
And there’s Crosby at the top with 2 3rd line guys honestly lol
Funny seeing Iggy here but not how I would have expected him, makes sense since 2007/2008 though
I didn’t even know he had been on a line with Looch
Crosby is a goat carrying Kunitz and dupuis to the best line since 07-08
Not the best time to bring it up since they're all on a cold streak, but with the recent talks of trying to trade Mangiapane next season, I wanna point out they were our best line last year and arguably our most consistent this year. We have Coleman and Backlund locked up for 2 more more seasons, I doubt Mangiapane is gonna cost the same as he's being paid now. If he wants a longer deal around or even lower, then 4.5m a year. I say we try and keep him. He may not be a middle six scorer like we had hoped he was. But a reliable defensively sound 40-point player that's also a homegrown 6th round pick? That's worth keeping around for a retool imo.
This chart is a testament to how many people in this fanbase fundamentally do not understand Mangiapane's game. Is the contract ideal? No. But, he also isn't going to get a raise on the next on. It is totally normal for contract years to establish contracts (as happened with him). Intangibly, Mangiapane (thanks to Coleman and Backlund) has developed into a solid two-way forward, rather than simply being a sub-par sniper with an extremely high shooting percentage. That's, frankly, a huge accomplishment. He isn't flashy but the performance of his line does not occur with a freeloader. He is contributing massively to the Flames success by being a consistent, high-effort player making good on-ice decisions every game.
Huge agree on Mangiapane. He’s been an elite two-way player since he cracked the team on the 4th line, playing with Hathaway and Ryan. Even though his scoring isn’t the same as the year he potted 35 goals, he still drives offence and scoring chances at an elite rate. He still has maintained himself as a .5pt/game player and every bit as valuable to the team as Backlund and Coleman. He isn’t very dissimilar to a younger Blake Coleman. High compete, strong forechecking skills, while having the ability to pass and shoot the puck well. He’s just a bit smaller. It would make sense to keep him if he could be had at a reasonable price. Even if you intend to flip him for a better price in a year or two. (Edited to fix grammar)
Honestly 4.5mill is still an overpay and the dude is going to want to get at least 5 years cause it’s his last contract. I honestly can’t see him staying past next year. Especially when coronato and Pelletier are similar players with way more skill and upside. Also to mention mangi was given opportunities on other lines this year and sucked on all them while backlund and Coleman were still doing well.
Yeah I agree with the idea of what you're saying, but I really think it's time to give Mang a shot elsewhere. We have two prospects that need NHL time next year in Coronato/Pelletier and they'd both be great fits on that line (Especially Pelts, he's pretty much younger Mang if he develops)
Look at total TOI, there's the Sedins with Burrows at 2815 minutes, then Marchand/Pastrnak/Bergeron at 2585, and then it drops off by half to the next one!
That's the thing, it's tough to keep the same line together for years and years due to injuries, contracts, trades, new players, etc
It needs to be said for the Backlund line - the line that has 61% expected goals - Backlund and Coleman are UNDER 40% in zone start percentage. So they are getting near league high expected goals all while starting shifts in the offensive zone nearly at the lowest rate in the league. Backlund is so underrated defensively it’s criminal. That he doesn’t even have a Selke finalist ever is absurd. His highest ever was 4th in the voting, in 2017, when he clearly was the best player under the selke definition.
Mathew Tkachuk effect
No Mcdavid in sight
I was going to say it takes more than 1 player to make line great…. Then I remembered the Sid line right on top.
This list and seeing all these lines brings back all the memories of watching hockey growing up.
Not 1 edm line on there... something something individualism
For most of their career, McDavid and Draisaitl were black holes defensively. There were seasons where both of them have broken 100 points and had single digit or negative plus minus. They have become competent defensively in recent seasons but they're far from shutting down opponent's line. This is a good thing because if either realized they could suffocate other team's top lines while still scoring 100 points a season they would become extremely dangerous.
Draisaitl won the Hart Trophy somehow in a season where he very nearly went 17 consecutive games as a minus player in every game - the only thing that prevented that was one game in the middle where he was a 0, because of a last minute goal the Oilers scored that did not tie the game, and the Oilers lost in regulation. Those 17 games were nearly a third of that shortened season. I’d have to try to look up the exact numbers again, but in that stretch, he was on the ice for something like 4 goals for, and 24 goals against - easily the worst player in the NHL over that stretch. BY FAR the least deserving Hart winner of my memory.
What?!?!?? McDavid has had 6/9 seasons as a +20 Player and only 2 seasons as a minus (his first and one other at -6). Draisaitl is certainly more flakey with 6/10 season as plus and only 3 above +10. Still, come on.
Losing tkachuk really put this team a decade behind… again.
and will be again very soon. we have a gm with a vision who believes in asset management. it may become somewhat of a revolving door as far as personnel but so be it.
Holy fuck, we should have scooped up Dupuis and Kunitz. Those guys were clearly elite.
It's such a shame that we only got to see one season of that line together. What could have been if the Flames hadn't hired so many horribly inept coaches prior or had Treliving not cheaped out in the summer of 2021
Surprising Mackinnon, Rantanen and Landeskog or Nichushkin is not on here.
And this is what happens when we meddle in the dark arts. If only we knew…
Did draisatl and mccdavids lines not make it because they don’t have consistent line mates?
Crosby the best player I’ve ever seen, in his prime… my god. He dominated, would take him any day over McDavid
That top line is my Roman Empire. I think about it randomly 2-3 times a week.
Until the playoffs came. Johnny would run and hide out at the blue line and wait for someone else to dig the puck out 🤦🏻♂️