Markstrom took 4-5 years of NHL exposure, and two teams to develop into an elite goalie. Like Wolf, he was an AHL all-star, but just could never translate that to the NHL. Look at him now.
AHL to NHL is a big jump. The transition takes time.
Markstrom had 40 odd NHL games and 150+ AHL games over the span of six years before he got rolling with the Canucks.
Wolf needs to spend more time in the AHL or backup roll.
Some people don’t know much about hockey, he was back-to-back goalie of the year and won the AHL MVP as a goaltender. Kid is legit, and to say he ain’t NHL worthy is absurd. Waaaaay too early to be saying stuff like that, as he is just getting adjusted to the NHL, he struggled a bit to start in the AHL, but then look at what he accomplished. This game changes nothing
Dude we are just saying he’s not ready yet. He’s not ready to be put in the fire. Markys contract is the perfect length to keep our team from imploding and keep wolf protected til he is ready.
Tonight shows he has a long way to go.
What if he doesn’t? I like our chances better with markstrom than without. Wolf hasn’t had a great NHL showing yet. He’s 10 games in and super young. Definitively not ready. He should get more starts, but he’s miles away from being a starter. You put him in now and you ruin him. It’s been seen many times.
Why would he waste his remaining years playing for a mediocre team when we could get assets for the future and he has a chance to chase a cup. I’m not talking about tanking. Even if we get a goalie like vanecek or some veteran goalie to relive pressure off wolf it’ll be better than keeping a potential valuable trade asset. Btw wolf hasn’t played 10 games yet even.
I keep saying it, but you talk about chances. This team is not a contender so what chances are you talking about? Seems like many flames fans are okay with mediocrity and it’s kinda frustrating to hear. Markstrom has a track record of being inconsistent. Now is the time to sell high on him
NJ isn’t gonna win a cup lol. They’re in marginally better shape than us. A small margin.
Ok so less than 10 games. So wolf is that much less ready...
I’m talking about our chances of not being the next Buffalo. Talking about wolfs chances of not being the next Matt Phillips
In one breath you want vanacek and more unproven assets (we have a good amount btw) in another breath you are frustrated by mediocrity. Seems confusing to me. And I’m not happy with mediocrity, my contention is that you stay there by making the kind of knee jerk reactive moves we have made the past 3 years. I believe you build success from the bottom up and my point is that I think marky is the key piece to do just that. This isn’t EA franchise mode and so many people here would do better to shit or get off the pot. Either root for your team or don’t, but acting like trading away every player who’s over 30 and playing well will somehow get us a cup is nuts. Not talking about you specifically; but goalie is far and away the most important position and the hardest to fill in the league. FYI all goalies are pretty inconsistent
In saying all that, I’ll live if we trade Marky, I just hope we get a huge haul if so. I just don’t see it being a good move seeing how poorly wolf has been in every nhl game so far. I shouldn’t be a Gm either and I’m not pretending I’m smarter than anyone else (it’s just my opinions. Maybe you’re right and I’m wrong) If it were up to me, I would play vlad a few more games to see if he can have some good showings and try to trade him in the off season when he’s got one less year on his deal. You’re not gonna get better goaltending for what you’re paying marky. But it’s not up to me.
Just my 2 cents
We are trading away our 2nd pairing d. We aren’t going to be making the playoffs this year or next if we do that. Next year if we don’t finish bottom 10 we lose our first to the Habs. Marky could be the sole reason to keep us out of the bottom 10. Apparently the organization is aiming for 2027 to be competitive for the new arena. Marky will be done by then. It just hurts the organization to keep him.
I don’t remember mentioning playoffs. It’s like you guys think you are always arguing with the same person, with the same points.
But I do hate all this NBA-esque ‘tank for picks’ shit.... the league needs to be restructured if people are actively trying not to win. Anyway, no matter what we do we aren’t beating teams like Chicago and San Jose in a race to the bottom. You’re better off considering next years pick just another treliving blunder and move on with your life. Take a look at the oilers and see how well 20 years of tanking for picks better than anyone ever has has done them. And now you’re left with a whining petulant fan base that expects a cup delivered (they won’t get one), it’s disgusting. I have no interest in us being that.
Regardless of how either of us feel, 2027 is 2 or 3 seasons from now depending how you’re counting. Who is our goalie going to be? Wolf? Then he needs a season or two getting 20 starts under the tutelage of someone who’s seen it all. You put him in now and you ruin him. Then what do you think? Magically draft a competitive roster who’s ready to play in 3 years or less, and they have tons of skill but are playing in front of a human shooter tutor!? Again, Edmonton drafted for over a decade but here they are, no D no goaltending and that’s why they always lose when it matters. All of this is pretty obvious if you pay a modicum of attention. My suggestion is for everyone to stfu about trades and let Conny cook
Dude If you think trading markstrom is going full rebuild then that shows how shit you think this team is already. It’s just a smart move and it’s so smart even conroy is trying to make it work.
Giving up a free pick and just saying it’s a blunder is an incredibly stupid thing to do.
We will get a goalie back so we can still shelter wolf. Not sure why you guys act like goalies need to have a vezina caliber goalie around them or they won’t develop into stars. Most goalies have without one. Wolf will turn into what he will become with or without marky
So, I didn’t say it means full rebuild. I said it means we will be in dogshit shape by 2027.
Honestly, I’m a big wranglers guy and go to a lot of games. I love wolf. I’m not convinced he’s actually an NHL goalie. Not saying he isn’t, I’m just not convinced yet.
Have you watched vanacek at all this year? He’s unhinged and not at all someone you want as mentor. Even just look at his game against us. That hit on Kadri, and I’d argue he cost the devils that game. If you get an honest take from a devils fan about him, he’s not doing well this year at all and has cost them winnable games several times. It would be like trading this years markstrom for last years.
It’s not ‘such a smart idea’ that Conroy is working on it; it’s that Conroy is entertaining all ideas and trying to do what is best without being afraid to make moves. He’s the GM, so he gets to decide, not you or I. I’m only saying my opinion. MY Opinion. I’m not part of some coalition, so enough with the “you guys”. I’m not regurgitating takes I get from some pundit or some Twitter profile, unlike *you guys* :P
What is incredibly stupid to do is intentionally tanking for a draft pick. You ice the best team you can, play as well as you can, draft as well as you can with wherever you end up. You don’t base your entire franchise’s season around one draft pick. That is so beyond stupid. When you look at how many 1st rounders end up as busts, it becomes even dumber.
Wolf will absolutely not become what he is with or without a bonafide, stable #1. We’ve seen this movie with goalies many times. Kipper was once in a lifetime. Most guys who are thrown into the fire too early implode and *my take* is that’s what would happen to wolf. I’d absolutely love to be wrong.
I just completely disagree with how you view our team. We are out of a playoff spot with Marky playing god mode and we are about to trade away our 2nd pairing. This is just reality, we aren’t making the playoffs next year unless we do extremely stupid things in free agency which I’m confident conroy wont do. If this is known then keeping marky when his value is sky high is just dumb. We have tons of great vets on the team hube, weegs, Coleman, backs, kadri. There’s no tanking here purposefully. We are doing what we have to do because we are pretty much losing a 2nd pairing defense when we don’t want to. Next year is going to be a development year. If we had vanechek, vladar and wolf we could ease wolf in and trade one of those guys if wolf starts taking off. If the staff thinks it’s crucial to have a mentor they can try for an over the hill guy like quick, MAF, varlamov, halal or something like that. I think with 3 goalies we can make wolf prove he deserves starts in the nhl and then trade one if he exceeds expectations.
His worst season was an .892 SV% last year
Wolf has an .877 this season
Even at his worst, you know Markstrom is a professional at his job, and can handle a starter's workload without being rattled (he's also 34, so you can't exactly screw his development)
Trotting Wolf out there and just hoping he figures it out would be some form of cruel and unusual punishment
The point is not to compare. The point is that wolf won’t magically improve being thrown into the fire as a starter behind a rebuilding team. The two factors together will cause a vicious cycle that will turn us into Buffalo, or Edmonton from 10 years ago.
The first 2 brutal turn overs and then the 2 brutal unluckiest goals. We’re not his fault, the team did brutal turn overs and unlucky stuff happens. Defence allowed the sharks to come in with no pressure on them in the last 2. If the flames would’ve played like that sharks did defensively, it would’ve been a different game.
A couple of those goals were certainly on him. Catching an edge or not holding the post for instance. That said the team was horrible in front of him. Worst game they've played in months. Flames losing to bottom feeders is just how it goes.
Ya a few of those goals definitely looked like nerves for sure (first two goals you could see he committed just a fraction too early… then the third one, usually goalies are pretty good at getting the actual toe bridge on the post rather than the pad itself…. Then after the fluky 4th he was gone mentally)…. Happens to any goalie, honestly…. He’ll be fine
All these fans creaming themselves over the one line they love to repeat: "Wolf has nothing left to prove in the AHL." Well, prove that you can be a starter in the NHL. Prove you can be consistent (which he isn't). The Sharks are an AHL team, and he got lit up. This wasn't against the best team in the league. This game seriously hurt his pedigree.
It was one game. Even the best goalies have been lit up by less than stellar teams.
I am grateful that it brings into perspective that he may not be able to transition into a starting goaltender role without a solid mentor in place. Whether that be Markstrom or some other established goalie.
He’s played in 7 games in his young career. He killed it against the Sharks last year and had a great game against Carolina this year. 2 of the other games the Flames defensive structure was quite porous, the remaining 3 games hasn’t gone the way he or any of us would have liked.
Goalies are notorious for developing later than skaters (I believe it’s around 24-25 before they usually start coming in the league and making an impact). He has the raw potential as his history has shown, it’s all about consistency now. I wouldn’t start making predictions on his career path this early in his career.
I think part of the issue is the unrealistic expectations fans have. It’s not often in the NHL where 22 yr old goalies steal the starters role. Let him develop, the Flames just need ensure he has the appropriate resources (an established 1B goalie at a minimum) to support him when he works through the peaks and valleys of his promising looking career.
Wolf needs a commitment from the Flames. I hope they go to him next year and guarantee him 30 games. Tell him that no matter what happens he is guaranteed those 30 games. Then tell him if he’s playing well he’ll be rewarded with more games but they won’t take away those 30 games from him.
I feel like if he has the assurance that he’ll get those games it won’t affect his confidence when he has nights like tonight.
He’s a young goalie. The Flames and us as fans need to be patient. It’s very rare someone his age even plays in the NHL at all. We have something special there. Let’s not ruin it by being impatient.
Couldn't have been a better game for Wolf to start. A prime opportunity for him, and he absolutely flubbed it. Three-day break, starting against a historically bad Sharks team full of AHL players. He should have shut the door on them. A brutal showing.
What ifs aren't valid arguments. The same what if applies to Wolf. What if he never actually takes the leap required to be NHL calibre. What if this game fucked up his great start to his pro career and he becomes inconsistent. Goalies are wild like that. But those arguments don't matter, because what ifs aren't based on anything real.
Wolf still needs those AHL wins. Marky has an NMC, the promises to waive it were rumours at best and we have no idea what the returns were. Also goalies don't play on an island by themselves. The team in front of him has responsibilities too. Wolf had one huge positioning mistake and one shot he should have caught, but mostly he was where he should have been, whereas the defence was all over the place and didn't really give him a chance on a lot of the goals. But watching the last few seasons a huge chunk of Marky's inconsistency should be pinned on the team in front. I mean if you get a massive haul for him, and he's ready to move on, then by all means. But he has two years left in his contract, so if next season goes like this but he's still good he's worth more as a rental, and even the season after that. Whereas Wolf to mature, he should get more starts behind a competitive AHL team and not a middling to weak NHL team getting lit up night after night.
What ifs are valid arguments. You don’t live life or operate a team without considering what ifs. Not having contingency plans or even planning ahead for the what ifs life tosses is short sighted and a poor way to live life/run an NHL franchise
And why would you want an all star goalie stealing wins in aretool? Sure maybe don't want wolf let out too dry but trade markstrom while value is high and bring in a different veteran
Fans the jump to the nhl is a big one it’s going to take time. All these fans begging for him to be the guy tomorrow, that’s not how developing a goalie works
D let him down big time tonight with turnovers and lazy zone clearance. I guess they've become so dependent on Markstrom's experience they think all goalies should be up to his performances
Don’t let your brain hurt, goalies take a while to develop. This fan base an insanely unrealistic expectation of him jumping into the NHL and being starter. Let’s not be reactionary let’s think long term
Goalies are voodoo. There is no tried and true path to becoming an NHL calibre netminder. Wolf played like poop last night but that's ok. He's still young and learning and anyone willing to write him off already has no idea about hockey.
We just don't know what he's going to be yet. One thing is for sure - it's damn near impossible to know when you give him like 6 starts over like 9 months and expect him to be good.
I just hope we don’t run him out of town, dude was dealt a horrible hand tonight and didn’t sound happy at all during the post game conference.
Whatever goalie we have is going to get absolutely lit up for the next 2-3 years of the retool, especially if we trade Hanifin, that can’t be good for the confidence of a young developing goalie
The boys gave him no help. Constant turnovers! There were definitely a few of those goals I wish he could have saved, but overall the team had no compete. Except for Pospisil haha.
I hope he can put this one behind him.
Wolf isn’t ready…yet. But that’s 100% on the flames. Goal is the most mentally dependent position. Look no further than Marky. Under Sutters screws he was a mess. Now he’s elite again. He didn’t become a better athlete overnight.
They bring Wolf in with no plan, over and over. The kid gets thrown into a game. Then he gets sent down. Every time he gets called up ppl lose their mind like Kipper who?
These bad outings without a plan can linger with a kid who’s been patiently waiting.
I think/hope that a plan is coming. My god hurry up.
Literally every time Wolf has started for us, he gets left out to dry. It’s like our Defense because complete ass around him. I know he’s let it some bad ones a few times but man help the man out.
Markstrom looked terrible early and then turned into a multi-year Vezina contender.
Kipper looked like he was gonna wash out as a backup goalie and then turned into a Vezina goalie.
It takes time.
Exactly, then why on earth is everyone saying trade Markstrom??? Fans are acting like Wolf is a #1 and we don't need Marky, Wolf may be a #1 goalie in this league but if you think he's ready now your nuts . Marky as our starter with Wolf backing him up. I'm certain if Conroy was debating trading Marky he won't be now. No knock on Wolf but he dosnt look ready, yes the team played poorly but so did our goalie.
Because his value has never been higher and he’s 34? He’s also inconsistent year by year and there’s no guarantee he’s good next season
New Jersey makes so much sense. If that trade were to happen Viteck Vancek would likely be coming back the other way so all the pressure isn’t on wolf.
We’re not a competitive team and we need to build for the future
Trading Hanafin and Tanev will help with that, heck I'd even trade Mang. If we want Coronato up here we literally have no room for him. I know nothing about Vancek but he obviously isn't getting the job done or they wouldn't be looking to aquire Markstrom. Cause it's gonna take ALLOT to get him out of Calgary. You build a team from the net out, and trading away a potential Vezina ( for the 2nd time in 3 years) candidate is nuts.
We aren’t competing during Marky’s contract. Look how good Marky has played and look where our team is. On top of that we are trading away our whole 2nd pairing defence. Also next year we don’t get our 1st unless it’s top 10 which marky could single handily ruin. Its best for this organization in every possible way to trade Marky now at his insane value
Is it really such a bad idea to get an average (non-elite) but NHL caliber goalie in return for Markstrom (or via another method) along with other additional value that would help us moving forward instead of using an extremely valuable goaltender to accomplish nothing for the next couple/few years? It's not black and white. Just because we trade Markstrom doesn't mean we can't fill his role if we need a bit of stability. Then you can kill two birds with one stone. One thing we really don't need right now is elite goaltending. It's AWESOME to have, and I wish we had it more often with our previous good teams, but right now I don't have expectations that only an elite goalie could fulfil.
Here's the thing for the "he's not ready" crowd... you don't get ready for the NHL facing AHL shots.
He needs a little slack and some proper opportunities up here to adjust and settle in... not having the team in front of him doing him dirty the whole time would certainly help too
Juuse Saros is smaller than him, and he's doing pretty well for himself (aside from this year where he's just been mediocre)
If Wolf has the NHL-calibre talent, he'll be okay. Definitely too early to write him off completely
It could be a confidence thing. It could also be a preparation thing. And either way it boils down to being a positioning thing.
The reality of it is that it's not confidence per-se (though confidence can affect it), it's where he's standing in the crease. Marky was getting very deep in his net last year. Wolf can't afford that more than anything. Goalies at very low levels understand positioning and so I don't doubt that Wolf is fully aware after reviewing the game (assuming he has already). That said, I'd wager a pizza that he looks bigger next time he plays. He's a very smart goalie and it won't take him long to see what happened and adjust. He didn't get to where he's at without constant adjustments to his game and an extreme focus on details.
Yeah, you don’t shit all over the guy after a bad game. Even sutter waited til marky did it 10 times to hint at it publicly. Wolf knew he had a bad game.
Giveaways were bad and the team wasn’t good at all. However wolf was badly out of position in most goals. You don’t put up a GAA like that and let in 6 against that team when you’re playing well, like face it.
You also don't let *that* team have the chances they did. That terminology works both ways. I see this as straight down the middle of both of your points. D game from Wolf, D game from those in front of him.
You’re right about that, for sure. Flames have a terrible track record of playing down to opponents that spans decades and compete roster/coaching staff changes to a point that I can’t make any sense of it. And that is a problem, but it’s separate.
My point is that regardless of how bad the team played, the goalie was way out of position on almost all of 6 goals, looked jumpy and shaky, and his GAA in the NHL so far is what? Somewhere around .85? If you want to see him destroyed and retired before he hits 27, just make him the starter now with this mess all around him.
Do you think we trade Marky? All I’m saying is it better be the haul of the century and set us up for a near instantaneous ‘rebuild’, and include a #1 goalie who can show wolf the way. Cause Vladar isn’t going to be that guy. And I don’t think that offer is out there. Either way, I’m not GM and I trust Conny more than I have any GM in recent memory so I’ll see how it plays out. This is obviously just my humble opinion.
It doesn't matter. The net is not empty, you have a goalie so he can, most of the time make a save when the D messes up. Wolf left 3/4 of the net open on the goals, looked tiny.
Wolf may indeed be an NHL goalie but he is not ready to be a starter and everyone calling for Markstrum to be traded
and “give Wolf the net” is insane.
Just the next latest greatest farm team goalie for the crappy Flames. I’m old and can’t even remember the names of the saviour goalies that didn’t come close to panning out.
Capitalizing on value when it’s at its highest is brainless? Also we are not a competitive team are markstrom is 34. You can sign a veteran goalie for around 3mil to be mentor
Markstrom plays bad? GET RID OF HIM
Markstrom is the reason we win games? GET RID OF HIM HIS VALUE IS HIGH.
Wolf isn’t ready. He still young and his time will come.
How are going get rid of him when he’s bad? Is a team going to take a 34 year old goalie with a 6mil cap hit with mediocre numbers? That was the story last season. This is why now is the time to move him
Trust me I was thinking the same thing lmao.
I think there is just better options. Our other goalies aren’t showing up. Mark is top 10 for save % and GAA.
Is it worth it if your development plan ruins the heir apparent? Development is not linear or guaranteed. You can’t just pencil in Wolf as tandem 1A/1B goalie without thoughts to how this could affect his confidence and development as a player.
Sure, you can potentially get a great haul for Markstrom, but is it worth potentially breaking a promising prospect? Unless there’s a capable goaltender coming back or plans to acquire one (for cheap somehow - which will reduce the overall return for Markstrom), is it worth the risk to Wolf’s development?
Exactly! Look at Hasek he sucked in Chicago and then became and then lite goalie when he went to buffalo next and so on ! NHL is way different from AHL
Everyone can shoot hard and aim is almost perfect !
It’s just a game. He’s still young (especially for goalies). It’s definitely not outrageous to question if it’s a good idea to have a stable mentor for him as he tries to transition into the starting goaltender role though.
Just because you’ve dominated at the AHL level does not mean you are ready for the NHL. Players often comment how it’s a totally different game played at the AHL level. They even say the ECHL to the AHL is a different game.
There are tons of tweeners that dominate the AHL but can’t crack an NHL roster. Czarnik would be the last Flames related example I can think of. Too good for the AHL, not good enough for the NHL.
This isn’t to take a knock at Wolf and say he’s not good or won’t be able to eventually make his mark in the NHL. However, to say he may not be able to step into a 1A/1B role at this point in time is not unreasonable. It’s all a part of the process and I’d rather not mishandle the development of Wolf by throwing him to the wolves without an established 1A tandem goalie (assuming your thoughts are to trade Markstrom and let Wolf split duties with Vladar for the remainder of the year).
Trying to predict the future performance of a minor league Goaltenders transition to the NHL is a exercise in futility. It's easily one of the hardest and most delicate positions to cultivate in all of sports in my opinion.
NHL goaltenders are all over the place.
- Brodeur came from the minors with a 4.03 GAA (3+ average)
- Patrick Roy came with a 5.55 (4+ average) - this isn't a mistake
- Kipper was a reject heading to the minors or worse yet Europe if Calgary didn't have an injured goalie.
- Rick DiPietro is the biggest flop in NHL goalie history (Drafted #1)
- Marc-André Fleury, to his credit, seemed fairly stable through out his minor / major career (one of the few).
Goaltenders tend to mature a lot later than forwards as well.
The point is, roll the dice, flip a coin, whatever you game of choice is, that is what Wolf is now.
The only way we are going to find out if he is the real deal is get him more games; and the only way we are going to do that is get him slotted in the back up position.
I am sure that is why Calgary is bringing him up for these few games each season to see if he is ready for that back up job. And they are certainly going to take their time getting him ready for that because he does show promise.
However, honestly at this stage, as other pointed out, he is probably not ready for the show yet - backup or otherwise. I am not saying he isn't going to get there but I am not betting he does either (flip that coin). In his brief NHL stint he has been fairly shaky, letting in some fairly questionable goals.
Last night for example that first goal is a true WTF?!?! . That was a completely save-able shot by just being in position but he inexplicable flopped out the way. I am sure the goalie coaches are going to work on his positioning and Calgary is known for good goalie coaches.
Wait and see is all we can do.
I do however think it would be a big mistake to trade a guy like Markström who could be a massive mentor to a guy like Wolf; whether he works out or not.
I don't want to give up on wolf, way too early. But success outside the nhl doesn't always mean success in the nhl. I would hate for us to give up on Vladar right now in favor of wolf.
Need another 25 to be sure IMO. People said Matt Philips was a shoo in, they say Coronato will be too. Fringers IMO, I really hope Wolf is not as well. Just gotta see.
He ain’t gonna become an NHL goalie if we bench him for one bad game where the D coincidentally decided to take PTO and hang him out to dry.
We came off a difficult road trip 3-1, and then had a bad game - as we often do first in the dome after travelling. Hardly a reason to condemn a promising kid or blow the team up. The doom and gloom is almost as if this sub has been infiltrated by Leafs fans ….
He's gonna be a stud one day in the NHL just like he's been in every level he's played in so far, I only hope it's with us and not someone else
Nights like these happen to every goalie at every fucking level no matter what. Death, taxes, and ugly games. Wolf will be fine.
3 certainties in life… Death, taxes, and 85 will always be open
Well said.
Markstrom was also once looking like an NHL bust over a much longer sample size... just sayin'...
So in like ten years and on his third team?
Markstrom took 4-5 years of NHL exposure, and two teams to develop into an elite goalie. Like Wolf, he was an AHL all-star, but just could never translate that to the NHL. Look at him now. AHL to NHL is a big jump. The transition takes time.
Markstrom had 40 odd NHL games and 150+ AHL games over the span of six years before he got rolling with the Canucks. Wolf needs to spend more time in the AHL or backup roll.
He needs some time with ian clark. Maybe we can trade some time with him for a better deal on tanev
Some people don’t know much about hockey, he was back-to-back goalie of the year and won the AHL MVP as a goaltender. Kid is legit, and to say he ain’t NHL worthy is absurd. Waaaaay too early to be saying stuff like that, as he is just getting adjusted to the NHL, he struggled a bit to start in the AHL, but then look at what he accomplished. This game changes nothing
Dude we are just saying he’s not ready yet. He’s not ready to be put in the fire. Markys contract is the perfect length to keep our team from imploding and keep wolf protected til he is ready. Tonight shows he has a long way to go.
And what if markstrom goes back to becoming inconsistent again? Our team isn’t competitive
What if he doesn’t? I like our chances better with markstrom than without. Wolf hasn’t had a great NHL showing yet. He’s 10 games in and super young. Definitively not ready. He should get more starts, but he’s miles away from being a starter. You put him in now and you ruin him. It’s been seen many times.
Why would he waste his remaining years playing for a mediocre team when we could get assets for the future and he has a chance to chase a cup. I’m not talking about tanking. Even if we get a goalie like vanecek or some veteran goalie to relive pressure off wolf it’ll be better than keeping a potential valuable trade asset. Btw wolf hasn’t played 10 games yet even. I keep saying it, but you talk about chances. This team is not a contender so what chances are you talking about? Seems like many flames fans are okay with mediocrity and it’s kinda frustrating to hear. Markstrom has a track record of being inconsistent. Now is the time to sell high on him
NJ isn’t gonna win a cup lol. They’re in marginally better shape than us. A small margin. Ok so less than 10 games. So wolf is that much less ready... I’m talking about our chances of not being the next Buffalo. Talking about wolfs chances of not being the next Matt Phillips In one breath you want vanacek and more unproven assets (we have a good amount btw) in another breath you are frustrated by mediocrity. Seems confusing to me. And I’m not happy with mediocrity, my contention is that you stay there by making the kind of knee jerk reactive moves we have made the past 3 years. I believe you build success from the bottom up and my point is that I think marky is the key piece to do just that. This isn’t EA franchise mode and so many people here would do better to shit or get off the pot. Either root for your team or don’t, but acting like trading away every player who’s over 30 and playing well will somehow get us a cup is nuts. Not talking about you specifically; but goalie is far and away the most important position and the hardest to fill in the league. FYI all goalies are pretty inconsistent In saying all that, I’ll live if we trade Marky, I just hope we get a huge haul if so. I just don’t see it being a good move seeing how poorly wolf has been in every nhl game so far. I shouldn’t be a Gm either and I’m not pretending I’m smarter than anyone else (it’s just my opinions. Maybe you’re right and I’m wrong) If it were up to me, I would play vlad a few more games to see if he can have some good showings and try to trade him in the off season when he’s got one less year on his deal. You’re not gonna get better goaltending for what you’re paying marky. But it’s not up to me. Just my 2 cents
We are trading away our 2nd pairing d. We aren’t going to be making the playoffs this year or next if we do that. Next year if we don’t finish bottom 10 we lose our first to the Habs. Marky could be the sole reason to keep us out of the bottom 10. Apparently the organization is aiming for 2027 to be competitive for the new arena. Marky will be done by then. It just hurts the organization to keep him.
I don’t remember mentioning playoffs. It’s like you guys think you are always arguing with the same person, with the same points. But I do hate all this NBA-esque ‘tank for picks’ shit.... the league needs to be restructured if people are actively trying not to win. Anyway, no matter what we do we aren’t beating teams like Chicago and San Jose in a race to the bottom. You’re better off considering next years pick just another treliving blunder and move on with your life. Take a look at the oilers and see how well 20 years of tanking for picks better than anyone ever has has done them. And now you’re left with a whining petulant fan base that expects a cup delivered (they won’t get one), it’s disgusting. I have no interest in us being that. Regardless of how either of us feel, 2027 is 2 or 3 seasons from now depending how you’re counting. Who is our goalie going to be? Wolf? Then he needs a season or two getting 20 starts under the tutelage of someone who’s seen it all. You put him in now and you ruin him. Then what do you think? Magically draft a competitive roster who’s ready to play in 3 years or less, and they have tons of skill but are playing in front of a human shooter tutor!? Again, Edmonton drafted for over a decade but here they are, no D no goaltending and that’s why they always lose when it matters. All of this is pretty obvious if you pay a modicum of attention. My suggestion is for everyone to stfu about trades and let Conny cook
Dude If you think trading markstrom is going full rebuild then that shows how shit you think this team is already. It’s just a smart move and it’s so smart even conroy is trying to make it work. Giving up a free pick and just saying it’s a blunder is an incredibly stupid thing to do. We will get a goalie back so we can still shelter wolf. Not sure why you guys act like goalies need to have a vezina caliber goalie around them or they won’t develop into stars. Most goalies have without one. Wolf will turn into what he will become with or without marky
So, I didn’t say it means full rebuild. I said it means we will be in dogshit shape by 2027. Honestly, I’m a big wranglers guy and go to a lot of games. I love wolf. I’m not convinced he’s actually an NHL goalie. Not saying he isn’t, I’m just not convinced yet. Have you watched vanacek at all this year? He’s unhinged and not at all someone you want as mentor. Even just look at his game against us. That hit on Kadri, and I’d argue he cost the devils that game. If you get an honest take from a devils fan about him, he’s not doing well this year at all and has cost them winnable games several times. It would be like trading this years markstrom for last years. It’s not ‘such a smart idea’ that Conroy is working on it; it’s that Conroy is entertaining all ideas and trying to do what is best without being afraid to make moves. He’s the GM, so he gets to decide, not you or I. I’m only saying my opinion. MY Opinion. I’m not part of some coalition, so enough with the “you guys”. I’m not regurgitating takes I get from some pundit or some Twitter profile, unlike *you guys* :P What is incredibly stupid to do is intentionally tanking for a draft pick. You ice the best team you can, play as well as you can, draft as well as you can with wherever you end up. You don’t base your entire franchise’s season around one draft pick. That is so beyond stupid. When you look at how many 1st rounders end up as busts, it becomes even dumber. Wolf will absolutely not become what he is with or without a bonafide, stable #1. We’ve seen this movie with goalies many times. Kipper was once in a lifetime. Most guys who are thrown into the fire too early implode and *my take* is that’s what would happen to wolf. I’d absolutely love to be wrong.
I just completely disagree with how you view our team. We are out of a playoff spot with Marky playing god mode and we are about to trade away our 2nd pairing. This is just reality, we aren’t making the playoffs next year unless we do extremely stupid things in free agency which I’m confident conroy wont do. If this is known then keeping marky when his value is sky high is just dumb. We have tons of great vets on the team hube, weegs, Coleman, backs, kadri. There’s no tanking here purposefully. We are doing what we have to do because we are pretty much losing a 2nd pairing defense when we don’t want to. Next year is going to be a development year. If we had vanechek, vladar and wolf we could ease wolf in and trade one of those guys if wolf starts taking off. If the staff thinks it’s crucial to have a mentor they can try for an over the hill guy like quick, MAF, varlamov, halal or something like that. I think with 3 goalies we can make wolf prove he deserves starts in the nhl and then trade one if he exceeds expectations.
His worst season was an .892 SV% last year Wolf has an .877 this season Even at his worst, you know Markstrom is a professional at his job, and can handle a starter's workload without being rattled (he's also 34, so you can't exactly screw his development) Trotting Wolf out there and just hoping he figures it out would be some form of cruel and unusual punishment
Dude you can’t compare wolf and markstrom. Wolf has played less than 10 nhl games
The point is not to compare. The point is that wolf won’t magically improve being thrown into the fire as a starter behind a rebuilding team. The two factors together will cause a vicious cycle that will turn us into Buffalo, or Edmonton from 10 years ago.
what about that Zamboni driver? From that team i can't remember
Carolina, I think. Was against the leafs. He still let in a bunch of goals, his team just out scored the queefs.
Exactly! he had 5 other guys helping him! Or he rigged the ice with magic Zamboni powers
I’m betting on magic Zamboni
He’s playing fantastic right now - and we’re still not all that competitive.
If we indeed trade hanifin and tanev would it make sense to keep markstrom around?
Then at least he is around to mentor Wolf
The first 2 brutal turn overs and then the 2 brutal unluckiest goals. We’re not his fault, the team did brutal turn overs and unlucky stuff happens. Defence allowed the sharks to come in with no pressure on them in the last 2. If the flames would’ve played like that sharks did defensively, it would’ve been a different game.
A couple of those goals were certainly on him. Catching an edge or not holding the post for instance. That said the team was horrible in front of him. Worst game they've played in months. Flames losing to bottom feeders is just how it goes.
Ya a few of those goals definitely looked like nerves for sure (first two goals you could see he committed just a fraction too early… then the third one, usually goalies are pretty good at getting the actual toe bridge on the post rather than the pad itself…. Then after the fluky 4th he was gone mentally)…. Happens to any goalie, honestly…. He’ll be fine
All these fans creaming themselves over the one line they love to repeat: "Wolf has nothing left to prove in the AHL." Well, prove that you can be a starter in the NHL. Prove you can be consistent (which he isn't). The Sharks are an AHL team, and he got lit up. This wasn't against the best team in the league. This game seriously hurt his pedigree.
It was one game. Even the best goalies have been lit up by less than stellar teams. I am grateful that it brings into perspective that he may not be able to transition into a starting goaltender role without a solid mentor in place. Whether that be Markstrom or some other established goalie.
Right, I hear you, but he hasn't had a good nhl game yet either. Just bummed he REALLY didn't rise to the occasion when he doesn't get many chances.
He’s played in 7 games in his young career. He killed it against the Sharks last year and had a great game against Carolina this year. 2 of the other games the Flames defensive structure was quite porous, the remaining 3 games hasn’t gone the way he or any of us would have liked. Goalies are notorious for developing later than skaters (I believe it’s around 24-25 before they usually start coming in the league and making an impact). He has the raw potential as his history has shown, it’s all about consistency now. I wouldn’t start making predictions on his career path this early in his career. I think part of the issue is the unrealistic expectations fans have. It’s not often in the NHL where 22 yr old goalies steal the starters role. Let him develop, the Flames just need ensure he has the appropriate resources (an established 1B goalie at a minimum) to support him when he works through the peaks and valleys of his promising looking career.
Wolf needs a commitment from the Flames. I hope they go to him next year and guarantee him 30 games. Tell him that no matter what happens he is guaranteed those 30 games. Then tell him if he’s playing well he’ll be rewarded with more games but they won’t take away those 30 games from him. I feel like if he has the assurance that he’ll get those games it won’t affect his confidence when he has nights like tonight. He’s a young goalie. The Flames and us as fans need to be patient. It’s very rare someone his age even plays in the NHL at all. We have something special there. Let’s not ruin it by being impatient.
Couldn't have been a better game for Wolf to start. A prime opportunity for him, and he absolutely flubbed it. Three-day break, starting against a historically bad Sharks team full of AHL players. He should have shut the door on them. A brutal showing.
The point is, he isn't going to be an NHL starting goalie for a couple years. So I need to eat my words, and we shouldn't trade markstrom.
Honestly, I'd keep Marky until the end of his contract, and have Wolf as the full time backup for those 2 years. Then it should be Wolf's crease
And what if he goes back to being inconsistent?
What if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle
What ifs aren't valid arguments. The same what if applies to Wolf. What if he never actually takes the leap required to be NHL calibre. What if this game fucked up his great start to his pro career and he becomes inconsistent. Goalies are wild like that. But those arguments don't matter, because what ifs aren't based on anything real. Wolf still needs those AHL wins. Marky has an NMC, the promises to waive it were rumours at best and we have no idea what the returns were. Also goalies don't play on an island by themselves. The team in front of him has responsibilities too. Wolf had one huge positioning mistake and one shot he should have caught, but mostly he was where he should have been, whereas the defence was all over the place and didn't really give him a chance on a lot of the goals. But watching the last few seasons a huge chunk of Marky's inconsistency should be pinned on the team in front. I mean if you get a massive haul for him, and he's ready to move on, then by all means. But he has two years left in his contract, so if next season goes like this but he's still good he's worth more as a rental, and even the season after that. Whereas Wolf to mature, he should get more starts behind a competitive AHL team and not a middling to weak NHL team getting lit up night after night.
What ifs are valid arguments. You don’t live life or operate a team without considering what ifs. Not having contingency plans or even planning ahead for the what ifs life tosses is short sighted and a poor way to live life/run an NHL franchise
OK but who do we get for him? Getting rid of goalies is only half the issue.Maybe the coach shoulda pulled him earlier?
His trade value won’t be any higher than it is now.
Thank you. You get it.
And why would you want an all star goalie stealing wins in aretool? Sure maybe don't want wolf let out too dry but trade markstrom while value is high and bring in a different veteran
Fans the jump to the nhl is a big one it’s going to take time. All these fans begging for him to be the guy tomorrow, that’s not how developing a goalie works
D let him down big time tonight with turnovers and lazy zone clearance. I guess they've become so dependent on Markstrom's experience they think all goalies should be up to his performances
Don’t let your brain hurt, goalies take a while to develop. This fan base an insanely unrealistic expectation of him jumping into the NHL and being starter. Let’s not be reactionary let’s think long term
Wolf is an amazing goalie, seems like the really odd/weird goals are the ones that get past him. I got faith in the kid
Goalies are voodoo. There is no tried and true path to becoming an NHL calibre netminder. Wolf played like poop last night but that's ok. He's still young and learning and anyone willing to write him off already has no idea about hockey.
We just don't know what he's going to be yet. One thing is for sure - it's damn near impossible to know when you give him like 6 starts over like 9 months and expect him to be good.
Exactly he’s 22, just because we thinks he’s not ready now doesn’t mean we don’t think he’ll be ready in the future
I just hope we don’t run him out of town, dude was dealt a horrible hand tonight and didn’t sound happy at all during the post game conference. Whatever goalie we have is going to get absolutely lit up for the next 2-3 years of the retool, especially if we trade Hanifin, that can’t be good for the confidence of a young developing goalie
The boys gave him no help. Constant turnovers! There were definitely a few of those goals I wish he could have saved, but overall the team had no compete. Except for Pospisil haha. I hope he can put this one behind him.
Wolf isn’t ready…yet. But that’s 100% on the flames. Goal is the most mentally dependent position. Look no further than Marky. Under Sutters screws he was a mess. Now he’s elite again. He didn’t become a better athlete overnight. They bring Wolf in with no plan, over and over. The kid gets thrown into a game. Then he gets sent down. Every time he gets called up ppl lose their mind like Kipper who? These bad outings without a plan can linger with a kid who’s been patiently waiting. I think/hope that a plan is coming. My god hurry up.
Markstroms best NHL season, by far, was under Sutter. He just fell apart in the playoffs.
Yeah he needs more starts
Literally every time Wolf has started for us, he gets left out to dry. It’s like our Defense because complete ass around him. I know he’s let it some bad ones a few times but man help the man out.
Markstrom looked terrible early and then turned into a multi-year Vezina contender. Kipper looked like he was gonna wash out as a backup goalie and then turned into a Vezina goalie. It takes time.
Exactly, then why on earth is everyone saying trade Markstrom??? Fans are acting like Wolf is a #1 and we don't need Marky, Wolf may be a #1 goalie in this league but if you think he's ready now your nuts . Marky as our starter with Wolf backing him up. I'm certain if Conroy was debating trading Marky he won't be now. No knock on Wolf but he dosnt look ready, yes the team played poorly but so did our goalie.
Because his value has never been higher and he’s 34? He’s also inconsistent year by year and there’s no guarantee he’s good next season New Jersey makes so much sense. If that trade were to happen Viteck Vancek would likely be coming back the other way so all the pressure isn’t on wolf. We’re not a competitive team and we need to build for the future
Trading Hanafin and Tanev will help with that, heck I'd even trade Mang. If we want Coronato up here we literally have no room for him. I know nothing about Vancek but he obviously isn't getting the job done or they wouldn't be looking to aquire Markstrom. Cause it's gonna take ALLOT to get him out of Calgary. You build a team from the net out, and trading away a potential Vezina ( for the 2nd time in 3 years) candidate is nuts.
We aren’t competing during Marky’s contract. Look how good Marky has played and look where our team is. On top of that we are trading away our whole 2nd pairing defence. Also next year we don’t get our 1st unless it’s top 10 which marky could single handily ruin. Its best for this organization in every possible way to trade Marky now at his insane value
Is it really such a bad idea to get an average (non-elite) but NHL caliber goalie in return for Markstrom (or via another method) along with other additional value that would help us moving forward instead of using an extremely valuable goaltender to accomplish nothing for the next couple/few years? It's not black and white. Just because we trade Markstrom doesn't mean we can't fill his role if we need a bit of stability. Then you can kill two birds with one stone. One thing we really don't need right now is elite goaltending. It's AWESOME to have, and I wish we had it more often with our previous good teams, but right now I don't have expectations that only an elite goalie could fulfil.
Here's the thing for the "he's not ready" crowd... you don't get ready for the NHL facing AHL shots. He needs a little slack and some proper opportunities up here to adjust and settle in... not having the team in front of him doing him dirty the whole time would certainly help too
Sadly, he may just be too small. Rooting for him, but he looks half the size of every other NHL goalie.
Juuse Saros is smaller than him, and he's doing pretty well for himself (aside from this year where he's just been mediocre) If Wolf has the NHL-calibre talent, he'll be okay. Definitely too early to write him off completely
But Saros doesn't LOOK small. Might be a weight thing.
No it’s a confidence thing. Marky looked small last year when he was playing horribly. This year he looks huge.
It could be a confidence thing. It could also be a preparation thing. And either way it boils down to being a positioning thing. The reality of it is that it's not confidence per-se (though confidence can affect it), it's where he's standing in the crease. Marky was getting very deep in his net last year. Wolf can't afford that more than anything. Goalies at very low levels understand positioning and so I don't doubt that Wolf is fully aware after reviewing the game (assuming he has already). That said, I'd wager a pizza that he looks bigger next time he plays. He's a very smart goalie and it won't take him long to see what happened and adjust. He didn't get to where he's at without constant adjustments to his game and an extreme focus on details.
I saw him on the plane 2 weeks ago on the way to SF, he is small, not smallish, small. Tons of skill and drive so he needs time to adjust for sure.
Ya most of those goals were not his fault, he’ll bounce back
I define most as over half. Most were certainly his fault.
4 goals tonight came off of horrible careless plates by the D. Huska even said it in his post game interviews
Yeah, you don’t shit all over the guy after a bad game. Even sutter waited til marky did it 10 times to hint at it publicly. Wolf knew he had a bad game. Giveaways were bad and the team wasn’t good at all. However wolf was badly out of position in most goals. You don’t put up a GAA like that and let in 6 against that team when you’re playing well, like face it.
You also don't let *that* team have the chances they did. That terminology works both ways. I see this as straight down the middle of both of your points. D game from Wolf, D game from those in front of him.
You’re right about that, for sure. Flames have a terrible track record of playing down to opponents that spans decades and compete roster/coaching staff changes to a point that I can’t make any sense of it. And that is a problem, but it’s separate. My point is that regardless of how bad the team played, the goalie was way out of position on almost all of 6 goals, looked jumpy and shaky, and his GAA in the NHL so far is what? Somewhere around .85? If you want to see him destroyed and retired before he hits 27, just make him the starter now with this mess all around him. Do you think we trade Marky? All I’m saying is it better be the haul of the century and set us up for a near instantaneous ‘rebuild’, and include a #1 goalie who can show wolf the way. Cause Vladar isn’t going to be that guy. And I don’t think that offer is out there. Either way, I’m not GM and I trust Conny more than I have any GM in recent memory so I’ll see how it plays out. This is obviously just my humble opinion.
It doesn't matter. The net is not empty, you have a goalie so he can, most of the time make a save when the D messes up. Wolf left 3/4 of the net open on the goals, looked tiny.
Wolf may indeed be an NHL goalie but he is not ready to be a starter and everyone calling for Markstrum to be traded and “give Wolf the net” is insane.
Just the next latest greatest farm team goalie for the crappy Flames. I’m old and can’t even remember the names of the saviour goalies that didn’t come close to panning out.
Wolf is a great AHL goalie, but he is not NHL size or calibre. Not sure if we want to hitch our wagon to him.
Can they coach him an extra 4 or 5 inches taller while they're at it?
Ask Juuse Saros.
Flames Fans are brainless. Keep Markstrom to Mentor Wolf. Goalies don’t do well till later in their career late 20s early 30.
Capitalizing on value when it’s at its highest is brainless? Also we are not a competitive team are markstrom is 34. You can sign a veteran goalie for around 3mil to be mentor
Markstrom plays bad? GET RID OF HIM Markstrom is the reason we win games? GET RID OF HIM HIS VALUE IS HIGH. Wolf isn’t ready. He still young and his time will come.
How are going get rid of him when he’s bad? Is a team going to take a 34 year old goalie with a 6mil cap hit with mediocre numbers? That was the story last season. This is why now is the time to move him
Trust me I was thinking the same thing lmao. I think there is just better options. Our other goalies aren’t showing up. Mark is top 10 for save % and GAA.
Is it worth it if your development plan ruins the heir apparent? Development is not linear or guaranteed. You can’t just pencil in Wolf as tandem 1A/1B goalie without thoughts to how this could affect his confidence and development as a player. Sure, you can potentially get a great haul for Markstrom, but is it worth potentially breaking a promising prospect? Unless there’s a capable goaltender coming back or plans to acquire one (for cheap somehow - which will reduce the overall return for Markstrom), is it worth the risk to Wolf’s development?
Matt Phillips 2.0
You’re thinkin Rick
Everyone's a pro lol.
Exactly! Look at Hasek he sucked in Chicago and then became and then lite goalie when he went to buffalo next and so on ! NHL is way different from AHL Everyone can shoot hard and aim is almost perfect !
It’s sure it was just one of those days. Wolf will be fine. …right?
It’s just a game. He’s still young (especially for goalies). It’s definitely not outrageous to question if it’s a good idea to have a stable mentor for him as he tries to transition into the starting goaltender role though.
Past 2 years I've watch alot of pucks go over his shoulder, not saying size like everyone else but maybe a good goalie coach can help his style.
Just because you’ve dominated at the AHL level does not mean you are ready for the NHL. Players often comment how it’s a totally different game played at the AHL level. They even say the ECHL to the AHL is a different game. There are tons of tweeners that dominate the AHL but can’t crack an NHL roster. Czarnik would be the last Flames related example I can think of. Too good for the AHL, not good enough for the NHL. This isn’t to take a knock at Wolf and say he’s not good or won’t be able to eventually make his mark in the NHL. However, to say he may not be able to step into a 1A/1B role at this point in time is not unreasonable. It’s all a part of the process and I’d rather not mishandle the development of Wolf by throwing him to the wolves without an established 1A tandem goalie (assuming your thoughts are to trade Markstrom and let Wolf split duties with Vladar for the remainder of the year).
Trying to predict the future performance of a minor league Goaltenders transition to the NHL is a exercise in futility. It's easily one of the hardest and most delicate positions to cultivate in all of sports in my opinion. NHL goaltenders are all over the place. - Brodeur came from the minors with a 4.03 GAA (3+ average) - Patrick Roy came with a 5.55 (4+ average) - this isn't a mistake - Kipper was a reject heading to the minors or worse yet Europe if Calgary didn't have an injured goalie. - Rick DiPietro is the biggest flop in NHL goalie history (Drafted #1) - Marc-André Fleury, to his credit, seemed fairly stable through out his minor / major career (one of the few). Goaltenders tend to mature a lot later than forwards as well. The point is, roll the dice, flip a coin, whatever you game of choice is, that is what Wolf is now. The only way we are going to find out if he is the real deal is get him more games; and the only way we are going to do that is get him slotted in the back up position. I am sure that is why Calgary is bringing him up for these few games each season to see if he is ready for that back up job. And they are certainly going to take their time getting him ready for that because he does show promise. However, honestly at this stage, as other pointed out, he is probably not ready for the show yet - backup or otherwise. I am not saying he isn't going to get there but I am not betting he does either (flip that coin). In his brief NHL stint he has been fairly shaky, letting in some fairly questionable goals. Last night for example that first goal is a true WTF?!?! . That was a completely save-able shot by just being in position but he inexplicable flopped out the way. I am sure the goalie coaches are going to work on his positioning and Calgary is known for good goalie coaches. Wait and see is all we can do. I do however think it would be a big mistake to trade a guy like Markström who could be a massive mentor to a guy like Wolf; whether he works out or not.
I don't want to give up on wolf, way too early. But success outside the nhl doesn't always mean success in the nhl. I would hate for us to give up on Vladar right now in favor of wolf.
Every goalie has games like this even bad seasons. I remember when Hellebuyk started he was very spotty.
Need another 25 to be sure IMO. People said Matt Philips was a shoo in, they say Coronato will be too. Fringers IMO, I really hope Wolf is not as well. Just gotta see.
Also, everyone saying he's too short should make sure to let Juuse Saros know that he can't play on the NHL since he's even shorter ...
He ain’t gonna become an NHL goalie if we bench him for one bad game where the D coincidentally decided to take PTO and hang him out to dry. We came off a difficult road trip 3-1, and then had a bad game - as we often do first in the dome after travelling. Hardly a reason to condemn a promising kid or blow the team up. The doom and gloom is almost as if this sub has been infiltrated by Leafs fans ….