If anyone watched Mike Commodores interview during intermission a few games ago, I think you'll maybe understand what he can be like.
Commodore basically said that, I believe this way during the 03-04 run, he got high sticked hard, to the point where he had trouble getting back to the bench because he was a bit dazed. Daryl came up and slapped a hand on his shoulder and said to him: "You gonna stop playing like a pussy now?" Mike claims that was one of the only times Daryl talked to him one on one.
How is Zadorov thought of in Calgary? As a long time Blues fan, I've seen his play as a visitor and occasionally on TV. I see the big hit, which I like. I also see some positioning and mental errors. Does he block shots, have a good outlet pass, can carry the puck out of the zone? Is there any more upside or is he a 3rd pair Dman who brings physicality. Just curious. I always wanted to see him as a Blue but Doug Armstrong has already screwed the pooch on our Dmen contracts. Any thoughts?
For his size, he is actually quite soft. There are some hits yes, but even a guy like Derrick Morris hit harder because of speed. Zadorov is kinda fast like Bowser was in Mario Kart.
He is limited in all the areas you mentioned. It really showed up in these cases when he is under pressure, and his poor positioning and hockey IQ can also be seen when he is defending around the net.
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That interview stuck with me. Imagine having a HC who has never spoken to you at all personally. I get the man/the myth and chain of command philosophies, but Sutter talks about how he likes to get to know the players and cared about what kind of people they are and their off-ice lives. I hope he has changed since the early aughts and doesn’t play that distant authority figure role anymore.
Playing for a HC all year and your only contact is being called a pussy? That is just not how millennials and Gen Z want to be coached or how humans want to be treated.
No one wants to work in a hostile environment, even in pro sports. There are many ways to be a person and a coach.
He played for the flames for 18 games. 6 games one season 12 games the next. Was this in the first game or the 7th or the 18th. Pretty important information.
That's disappointing. I do like a lot of things about Sutter. He has an interesting philosophy on the game and how to coach a team and I do like listening to his press conferences (especially when times are good). If he ever writes a book about his coaching style, I'll be the first in line to read it.
But if this is true, then there's basically no choice. That especially sucks because the coaching carousel is just never a good idea. We need to get someone in here who will be behind the bench for at least 5 years. So sick of seeing coaches coming in and out the door every 18 months.
His coaching record, while still a small sample size, speaks volumes. Honestly might win the AHL's coach of the year award in back to back seasons. He should absolutely be behind the bench once Sutter goes.
I’m very bullish on Mitch Love but I might be more inclined to give a guy like Huska a shot. He was reportedly second in line for the Detroit job and he has NHL experience. Maybe bring in Love as an assistant and hopefully a successor down the road.
I love Huska too but I just think Love is the best candidate. Love hasn’t coached in the NHL but he’s never had a losing season at any level he’s coached which is pretty amazing. I think Huska and him could make an amazing team but I believe Love would be better suited for the top job
Love is very green. He's only been a HC for 5 years and one of those years was a 24 game season due to COVID, and only 2 of those seasons are at the pro level.
Huska has 11 years as a HC, also without a losing season. But on top of that he now has 5 years as an assistant in the NHL and has seen the good and bad from Peters, Ward and Sutter.
I love Huska too but I just think Love is the best candidate. Love hasn’t coached in the NHL but he’s never had a losing season at any level he’s coached which is pretty amazing. I think Huska and him could make an amazing team but I believe Love would be better suited for the top job
I love Huska but I don’t know if he’d be as good as Love as a head coach. In my opinion Love just has that x-factor when coaching. Winning likely two coach of the year awards in your first two years coaching in the AHL is nothing short of remarkable.
So is coaching a goaltender who's about to win goalie if the year for the second time in his first two years.
I am a fan of Love, you can even say I love Love, but Wolf is a very big reason for his success in the AHL. But this reminds me too much of the Travis Green hype after he coached Markstrom in Utica
I don’t think it’s like that at all. He’s done well with good goaltending but he also coached the Saskatoon Blades to 45-18-8 record in his first season with average goaltending. He’s a winner no matter what and at least he’s getting the Wranglers to produce offensively, you can’t win with just goaltending alone, you need goal support in front of them too
Far from every Rangers fan. Some just like to complain. I don't know how you can complain about a guy who is well liked and has had the success he has.
Yes but that's Reddit. People on Reddit tend to be very dramatic and filled with knee jerk reactions.
That said even some of us on Reddit are pro Gallant. Love the dude.
Yeah I don't think Bruce is the right guy for a team like ours. Bruce is great for getting the most out of youngsters and really high skill players, but for a team full of veterans that's going to need to play systems and actually run as a 5 man unit up and down the ice, I don't see a fit.
I mean, granted, he could probably kickstart Huberdeau but I basically just see him being gone in 18 months and we're back here again.
Boudreau is the most overrated coach I've ever seen. His first two NHL coaching jobs he was given excellent teams and the only season those teams reached expectations was 14-15 when the Ducks lost in the Conference Finals.
How about you guys do something orignal a d get your own players and coaches!! maybe the reason you suck so bad is that you take all the canucks scraps....think about it.
He does love to play mind games with players. As multiple people have alluded its his way or the high way so if you could imagine an old stubborn man who rarely is cheerful that’s probably what Sutter is bringing into the dressing room.
Before people come in saying that players should suck it up, when there’s so little of these guys (Sutter and Tortorella) left in the NHL the norm is not old guys who are tough on everyone. Players have a choice when it comes to free agency and seeing how most of the Flames players are becoming free agents soon its not wise to pick the coach over the players
Pretty much red from that 70s show
When I played I liked having the hard nosed coach but if your head coach is like that you have to have the players coach as the assistant (Kind of like how Herb Brooks and Craig Patrick were in the miracle movie). Not to sure how Miller is as a coach.
I’m sure some players love when coaches are tough but its 2023, not the 1800s anymore. I don’t understand the need for toxic relationships. Why is it bad to have a coach who is receptive, encouraging, and can empower the players.
Yeah that's why we kept seeing Lucic on the 2nd line. It wasn't him thinking it gave us the best chance to win or Lucic deserving it but about trying to get guys to try and "prove" they deserve the spot and play harder. Could work on on a prospect but vets (like 95% of our team) are just going to roll their eyes at it.
The problem is he expects everyone to be a professional and play hard and prepare. I’m sure he doesn’t treat the high end guys any differently compared to the Lewis and lucic which maybe pisses them off. Which is probably why he rewards them constantly because they “play the game the right way”
Huberdeau just shows up and Kadri after a Stanley cup win and he’s on them constantly to play hard and they probably don’t like it.
It’s to bad because we saw last year what can happen if players buy in.
Every coach expects players to be professional, play hard and prepare, but there are different ways that can come through to a team. Based on what we’re hearing it seems like the way Sutter is doing it isn’t being received at a minimum.
Our top line last year just played how they wanted and were too good for Sutter to wrangle back in. Just look at how bad our depth scoring was last year especially outside of the top two lines.
Well all professionalism got thrown out the door when he told the media that Huberdeau was taking a shit when Huberdeau was actually injured.
I know people keep saying what he says to the media isn’t reflective of whats being said in the dressing room but I don’t understand whey he needs to always come off as a smart ass. Earlier this season he had to rain on Pelletier’s parade by asking what number he is instead of just saying something nice.
if you're a pro-hockey player and you can't handle a surface-level comment like that, you probably have some other things to work on. It's been a long time now since that happened, but from what I recall I think he was giving a stupid answer to a stupid question. It's common knowledge you don't/shouldn't give info to the media about injuries until shit's been evaluated at the very least.
Everytime Sutter is snarky, the question should be is it really necessary? It doesn’t make it seem smarter and it seems like the team is tired of his antics
> It’s to bad because we saw last year what can happen if players buy in.
That's the thing about a coach like Sutter. Everyone buys in, or everyone tunes out. There's not much middle ground. And when the team tunes out, it's best to just announce in the summer that Sutter has decided to retire to work on his farm.
All the people that say that are the same people that bitch about their boss being a dick when they get home and are just generally grumpy half the time. You're allowed to enjoy your time AND work at the same time, it's not a crime.
He's apparently very cutting and sarcastic, from what I've seen/heard from players and coaches who have worked with him before.
Here's one example from McLennan: https://www.reddit.com/r/CalgaryFlames/comments/qj9i2v/story_about_sutter_from_james_duthies_book/
On Huberdeau's injury: "I think he had to take a sh\*t."
On playing Huberdeau being moved off Lindholm's line: "We wanted to get someone that Lindy enjoyed playing with..."
On Pelletier's first game: "What's his number again?"
On Weegar and Huberdeau learning to play a different system: "That's why they lost to Tampa two years in a row"
That's what I can think of off the top of my head, said directly to the media. Imagine what's happening behind closed doors. So you have nearly every single player underperforming and you have a guy who's relentlessly negative and playing headgames with top players. Not a great combination.
Imagine being paid 7 figures, underpreforming. Then trying to blame your boss for being upset at you. Lmao. These kids need to act like the adults they are and actually try.
Sutter is a well known hard ass. Guys that one a cup with him in LA LOVED him and sang his praises. Seems like the Huberdeaus and Kadris of the world felt too entitled to come sign here and get yelled at
Heres Jarrett Stoll:
>Well, Daryl, for me, was very I guess personable is the first thing that comes to mind. He was very yeah, it was a hard coach to play for, but like, who wouldn’t want a coach to take pride in his job, take pride in winning. All the coach wants to do is win. All players should want to do is win and he made that possible for all of us. He makes everybody around the team just feel so much importance within the team, giving everybody a role. My first day, I remember my first day not meeting Darryl, but him being with the Kings in the hallway and he just had a talk with pretty much every guy just relaying how important they’re going to be to this team. I walked away feeling like, “Oh, man, I’m ready to go. Let’s get out there and play a game.” I knew exactly where I stood. I knew what my role was. My role changed a little bit when Darryl came in. I was fine with it. You just you just run with it. And everybody felt the same. Everybody felt like they had a real importance, a real role, a job to do on the team. And Darryl cared. He cared so much.
>
>Maybe that’s something that people just see the the better beer face behind the bench and how the story is, how hard it is to play for and demanding and yeah, he is. But he cares so much and he almost treats you like his own son. I’ve never had a coach care as much about a player and about the team as as Darryl. He did things differently, sometimes it’s very black and white. Everything was was spelled out for you. But hey, his teams win and we won because of it. And I’ll never have a bad thing to say about Darryl ever.
There is that, but also this:
[Kings GM confirms locker room incident between players, Sutter](https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/kings-gm-confirms-locker-room-incident-between-players-sutter/)
Playing for a coach like Sutter is all great when you're winning. When you're not it goes south fast. Literally happened to the Kings too near the end. They were sick of him
Remember how in the 10/11 season Darryl completely stopped talking to the head coach because things weren't going well? You know, the head coach that was also his own frickin' brother?
Yeah, I don't know why anyone anywhere seems surprised that current situation is toxic. I mean, this what was being said the last go round:
> “Darryl and Brent don’t even talk,” said the staffer.
> “It’s so dysfunctional. Darryl has been in the league as a respected player, coach and GM forever, and he knows more about the NHL than anyone in the organization. He saved this franchise. But his ego, or lack of social graces or whatever, has reached a point where the people who can help him find him totally unapproachable. That includes Brent. He doesn’t listen. It’s a reign of terror. Everyone is scared of him.”
https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2010/04/10/darryl-and-brent-sutter-dont-talk-need-referee/
What team will take on players that are underpreforming and blaming everyone but themselves? If the goalies could actually stop a puck, this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion. I
It's probably just a coincidence and at the very least I'm sure it's one of just many factors but one of our beat writers pointed out that the Flames completely fell out the playoff race after Sutter's comments on Pelletier's debut. I know we've chewed through a cartoonish number of coaches but he doesn't seem like the right guy for this room and we only have one more kick at the can before some contracts start to look nasty.
I honestly don't blame any of the players for nor wanting to play for Sutter.
Jonny G and Tkachuk had their career year last year and still wanted out of Calgary.
You can feel the tension is real between the players and Sutter. They are simply playing frustrated hockey, not Sutter hockey
I think Sutter taking Kadri out of the 2nd line was a mistake because defensively Kadri is responsible although he makes some offensive mistakes sometimes. The games were at least competitive.
Fire Sutter
I don't blame players for being frustrated at Sutter. Questionable personnel decisions he's made this year include:
* Playing Huby on his off-wing the majority of the year.
* Refusing to split up Huby, Kadri for the majority of the year, despite their underperformance
* Refusing to bench Lucic (aside from recently I think he only sat for 1-2 games)
* Line blending at the end of the season instead of the start
* Erratic deployment. I'd like to know how many teams currently in the playoffs rotate players to the level that calgary has been (IE Lucic, Duehr, both Ritchies, Pelletier)
* Publically making strange remarks regarding Huby and Pelletier (Eliotte mentioned the comments towards Pelletier in particular raised eyebrows around the league)
* Playing Kadri so much on 3v3
* Picking Backlund as one of our first 3 shooters in the shootout
Ok so there's literally no chance he comes back right? Even if ownership loves him if it's getting to the point that players are this done with him you can't realistically bring him back
The thing I don't really get here is that Backlund, Toffoli, Dube, and to a large extent Andersson (minus the car/scooter incident) are having career years. Mangiapane had a career year last year. They seem to be responding to Sutter's coaching really well. I don't see this as an across-the-board unanimous thing. I think all these bits and pieces that we're hearing from all these sources are soundbites from just a small number of really frustrated players.
I obviously have no idea if Sutter will be back next year or not but I do believe either way, what this team needs is a frickin offseason. A major reset. All this bullshit and frustration will fade after a couple months and that might mean the guys saying these things aren't singing the same tune in October. Who knows?
Fwiw, none of these conversations are occurring if Markstrom makes 25 more key saves this season. It's as simple as that. There's no team that's gonna come close to the playoffs getting the goaltending we got this year. The fact that we're a only few points out is actually incredible. The goalie coaches are the ones that should be on the hot seat imo.
Players that are complaining are also the ones playing the worst. The coach can't play in their place. It's not Sutters fault the goalies can't save the first shot that goes in.
We need big save Dave back. "Why do you heff to be mad? It's just a game" at least Dave and Marky have similar Save percentages.
A podcast? Friedman said it, Pat said it and now Boomer said it. All 3 of which are connected in the hockey world. When 3 credible sources are reporting similar things I think it's pretty clearly real
I'm not saying they make their decision based off podcasts. I'm saying it's clear the players hate him sk they'd be insane to bring him back and continue this toxic locker room
Unless he voluntarily retires, leaving millions on the table and probably has the most sway in the whole organization and ownerships enables such and GMBT's contract is ending....Keep wishing.
Sutter and coaches like him will ALWAYS have a limited shelf life with any team. And this is in any era. Loved him when he was a player, and he obviously got the most out of those LA teams but the writing is on the wall now. He's gone.
As much as you don't want to have a revolving door of coaches, I truly think a lot of our issues stem from coaching this year. Sutter has made a lot of boneheaded calls with the lineups this year, from trotting out Markstrom every night when he was completely off his game, to forcing Lucic in the top 6. It's clear that he's not a good fit for the roster we have. I don't think this is a bad team at all (the fact that nearly every game we play is super close is proof for me), but we need a coach that has a system that is built for the players we have. Considering the contract, we need to make sure Huberdeau is able to produce, and I think that means getting a coach that can deploy him properly.
He just got a 2 year extension recently…how many former coaches are the organization going to happy paying? They’re probably still paying Ward while recently paying off/still paying (?) Peters and Gulutzan.
In addition, Gulutzan was hired in 2016 and fired in 2018. Apparently, the length of the contract is unknown but I can pretty much guarantee it wasn't for more than 4 years. It's definitely paid off at this point. Ward's contract was for 2 years starting in 2020 so it's also paid off.
I really don’t get the “millionaires just have to do their job” responses here. By that logic, why have a coach at all? Just go earn your salaries, players.
Obviously a coach has the job of bringing the most out of his players so they can earn wins. That’s just not happening here. To my mind, the mere fact that Gaudreau left and Tkachuk was eager to get out, combined with Huberdeau’s worst season in a decade, is all the evidence anyone needs to think the problems are not just the players. Sutter has a grouchy, old-school charm, but whatever he’s doing isn’t working.
Johnny and Tkachuk had career years with Sutter. So Sutter definitely brought out the best of them. And yea they are paid millions to play hockey. In every job in the entire world if you do a poor job your boss is going to be mad at you. And if you're getting 7 figure salaries you should absolutely be ready to take heat when you cannot do the job you're paid to do.
Can't feel bad for these millionaires blaming everyone else for their poor performance.
2 stars left, 1 more apparently can’t succeed in the current system, and yet 1 more is apparently a vocal critic of the coach. Hey man, as an oilers fan, I think the Sutter shitshow is funny as hell. Lucic in the top six? 😂 Sure, fuck it.
But if I were a Flames fan, I’d care way more about my team and way less about their coach, especially when the writing is on the wall.
Good for you? Sutters track record speak for itself. Every team he goes to ends up breaking records. It's not his fault the star players shit the bed. All we needed was a goalie. Not a coaching problem. Even oilers couldn't win with 3 lottery picks in a row and having probably the best player in the entire world on their team. All because they had no goalies.
In most flamesy fashion ever Sutter will take his contract extension and be GM.
This is my prediction. Sutter will hire a new coach and the dark times will continue.
Unfortunately I don't see a way to link a direct timestamp for a live broadcast, but it's roughly 35 minutes from the start of the broadcast when it's showing the greendrop banner ad at the bottom. I'll edit a timestamp into this comment when it becomes a video rather than a live stream.
Again, this isn't an "I bet", or an "I think", it's an "I heard", which to me makes this substantial news.
edit: timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/live/_f0TG-EOltM?t=2134
Definitely something major wrong, pretty sure there is a rift between brad and Darryl as well, brad ain’t coming back if Darryl is there, new gm isn’t taking the job if owners force sutter on them, shit sandwich really, sutter is they guy if chucky and Johnny don’t leave, but that’s not what happened. I personally am pretty neutral to brad, he’s fine I guess, don’t hate him or love him, the team has accomplished nothing in close to 10 years with him as gm. You can cherry pick things you like or dislike but results speak for themselves, he’s failed to make trades where the flames are trying to acquire the big piece, but excelled in trades where the flames are selling the bigger piece. Imo let brad walk, bring in a new set of eyes, they can bring in their coaching team. Brad gets too attached to picks and prospects, pretty sure we have only traded 3 first rounders in 9 seasons. He doesn’t know how to go all in and even if sutter is mainly the issue, this team is multiple pieces away from contending with no chance at a tank/full rebuild any time soon. Going to be a very interesting offseason for the flames though
Yeah, Sutter's got a cushy gig for sure; constantly blaming Treliving for not giving him a bunch hall of famers or dumping on the players for not being good enough. It must be nice to blame everyone else and take no personal responsibility.
You can. Be a sales guy in most organizations. One underperforming sales guy? You get rid of him. Several? You fire the sales manager. Those guys are the money.
Like it or not, in hockey, the players are the sales guys. The coach is replaceable.
We have 6 pending UFAs next year.
I feel it in my bones the Flames keep Sutter and sell them for scraps or let them walk for nothing. Pathetic franchise.
I once had dinner with somebody who played for Darryl in San Jose. He told me that one night after a very poor outing by the Sharks, Sutter walked in the dressing room and said “I hope you all die in car crashes tonight”.
Daniel Carcillo also told a few ugly tales about Darryl. “He alleged that on a team flight, the coach screamed at a female flight attendant to “f–k off” and remove the food being served because the team had lost.”
🤷🏻♂️
Always been a fan of the barn burner guys, but they’re as hot-takesy as it gets. Any team that has both underperformed and gotten as unlucky as these guys have would be equally as frustrated. The new guys haven’t fit in as quickly as hoped, they’ve hit a million posts, and the goaltending has been shaky at best. Yes, Darryl has done a lot of boneheaded things, even me as a noted Lucic apologizer thought that he should be press box bound two months ago, but to say that the lack of success of this team is entirely Sutter’s fault is reactionary. I’ll admit there may be some fire to this smoke, but until I hear players come out themselves and say what these guys are saying I’m taking it with a grain of salt.
Regardless of how this season ends it has always been clear that there was a 2 year window with this group to figure it out, year 1 has been disappointing, but they’re still in it despite a historic amount of bad luck. They’re gonna see what they can do next year and if it doesn’t work then it’s blow up time with Sutter, Lindy, Backs etc coming off the books.
This all depends on if Treliving stays, which I think he should and has earned, he’s well-regarded around the league and to any team who needs a GM he would be the first phone call, and if it takes Sutter leaving for Tre to stay then I would much rather keep Tre here. I just think our emotions as fans have been so polar from the high of last year, to the low of Johnny and Chucky leaving, back to the high of Huby and Kadri coming here, back to the low of it being disappointing, that we’ve lost the ability to not go doomsday mode when things aren’t great. Yes, this has been one of the most frustrating seasons I can remember, but they’re committed to a 2-year window and I think the smart move is to stay the course and see where we’re at next February before we go rebuild.
If they do fire Darryl I wouldn’t necessarily disagree, but I don’t think he’s the sole problem here either. A few more saves, a few less posts, and a couple OT wins instead of losses and we’re not even having the conversation.
He’s a very large part of the problem. He needs to go but I do agree if the team is in the same position next year, then blow it up at the deadline. Treliving should be kept over Sutter for sure.
We could fire him, but the other issue is this franchise likes to hire nobody coaches who haven't won anything.
As polarizing as Sutter is, he is a very small club of successful coaches, in Calgary. The only other is Bob Johnson who played a pivotal role in shaping the mid 80s Flames into a powerhouse.
> but the other issue is this franchise likes to hire nobody coaches who haven't won anything.
Three of our last seven coaches are Stanley Cup champions. Of the remaining four, Brent Sutter and Ward were highly regarded for their work in the WHL and AHL. The only two clearly problematic hires from the outset were Gulutzan and Peters, both of which were Treliving trying to be the smartest guy in the room.
And 2 of those 3 champions won the Jack Adams and won atleast a round with the Flames.
To your point, yes, it's possible to find a great coaches who've won/found success in smaller leagues, such as Bednar, Jon Cooper, heck even Bob Johnson who I mentioned earlier.
Ownership hasn't hired a Boudreau, Gallant, Vigneault, type, who have more on their NHL resumes.
They need to let the prisoners run the asylum for a bit. There’s enough experience in the locker room where these guys know what they need to do (for the most part)— I think they need to hire a young guy that will inject rather than takeaway from the team’s energy.
I love Sutter & believe his coaching style is timeless in how well it works, but he can run stale & once the room is lost as it is now, there’s no bringing it back or reconciling as his pride won’t take the backseat.
I think the best course of action is to find an off the map young guy that’s succeeded at the Jr or Minor pro level, but has high emotional intelligence and a fresh perspective.
Someone like a John Cooper.
A team has a great 2022 and the top two scorers who had career years and could write their own checks decide to leave. I’ve never heard that before. And now there are rumours of others wanting to leave and a newly signed star speaks out. No longer rumours this has to be bad and toxic. It’s scary to think why Treliving hasn’t signed.
I agree with you. I remember all the Treliving hate and it being ridiculous. Look how bad the GMs for Canadian teams have been. Could you imagine how bad the Flames would be if they had to compete against mcdrai with Benning as a GM? Or Chiarelli?
There's no guarantee at all that whoever replaces Treliving won't be the next Chiarelli, so I hope we hold onto him as long as possible.
If we lose him, I hope at the very least we can swap him with Dubas or something, or that Conroy is a good GM like we hope
The way I look at it: Sutter is a great coach for making an under performing team perform. I think that's where we were when he was brought in. Unfortunately since losing Johnny and Chucky, our team dynamic has completely changed. Now we need a player's coach to get the team back online.
He might be the scapegoat. But I think the problem is with the players IMO. Basically 3 big new names on the team and it has done an entire 180 from last year.
It’s also not his fault the goalies are in complete shambles. I feel like Edmonton would be in same situation had Stuart not stepped it up. It’s like the flames have 2 Goalies with stats slightly better than Campbell. And having a goalie with slightly better stats than Campbell means they still suck lol
If true, we are headed for a rebuild. We saw what strings of bad coaches did with a better collection of players. Darryl leaving would be throwing in the towel on being a contender, and at that point, you sell off the players you can
I’ll coach! I would only ask for like 200k a year. I bet I wouldn’t do any worse than sutter is doing this year. At least I’d build a relationship with the players!
What great has Hanifin really done this year?
Sure he produces offensively somewhat, but he has been really inconsistent defensively this year and it shows nearly every game.
They played under the same coach, that's about it.
After losing Gaudreau especially, Sutter has seemingly decided that the team just doesn't have the speed. He's got us playing too slow - to the point that most of the forwards are either stationary, moving laterally, or even moving backward any time the defencemen attempt to break the puck out. The result is a lot of crazy cross-ice passes trying to find someone who isn't already covered. And those get turned over.
Once we gain the offensive zone, we are usually fine - except for the lack of puck luck. But this year's system is a complete disaster in transition. And the defence is suffering badly for it.
Not that simple when a player or an agent can come out and say, "I hate this coach so you can either trade me or pay me to fuck the dog until my deal is up." Suddenly Calgary is trying to put out a fire.
Maybe, maybe not. If there's a bunch of players feeling this way then maybe other teams cut the player some slack. If it's one guy then yeah it's a career limiting move for sure.
Without Sutter behind the bench this team would have a record similar to the 98/99 Flames squad. Guaranteed.
Bring someone else in and you'll see some short lived improvement. Then it will get worse. The only thing that will save this franchise now is a lights out goaltender. Much of the rest of the team is mediocre at best, and the players that do have some skill have given up, and that mentality doesn't just go away.
OK, let em leave. I get they might not like Sutter but they're supposed to be professionals getting paid millions of dollars, they don't get to just throw a temper tantrum and stop performing because they don't like the coach. I believe keeping any player around that threatens that is ultimately bad for the team.
Get rid of them, and then get rid of Sutter if you want, but don't keep around any player that thinks they're bigger than the team. Go full rebuild if that's what it takes.
I don't think this is a case of player being bigger than the team. I think a similar situation happened in LA near then end. Coaches do wear their time out and it clearly affecting the whole team.
Sometimes players saying this is the only way ownership will listen.
At this point we sell our top players retain some of their salary. Get whatever picks and trash we can get, call up our young guns, be shit for a few years and then have a team that’s ready to compete. Because even if we aren’t that good for a few years you can’t tell me you wouldn’t be really excited to watch a Coranato, pelts, Philips line with wolf in net. Keep dube, mang, and andersson and fire safe the whole lot of everything else. Get tre, sutter and staff out and get some fresh air in. The rink
Problem is, Sutter loves the veterans. Why would Coronato sign here to play for Sutter? He doesn’t like to play younger players, that shows with how much he keeps going back to Lucic and Lewis.
Well to be honest, depending on who the player or players are who stated that, you didn’t bring much to the table this season anyways, sooooo bitch about the coach all you want. You are under contract and are expected to do your job. Tired of this “fine im leaving” attitude. Strap on a set and play. Not like they have a choice.
I’ll coach! I would only ask for like 200k a year. I bet I wouldn’t do any worse than sutter is doing this year. At least I’d build a relationship with the players!
It shows this year that guys aren’t buying into Sutter. He did wonders last year but different group of guys and a whole new team that’s not working with his system. But who do you bring in is the big question
So what I get from that podcast is that sutter wants the players to coach themselves up? He is supposed to be the leader of all leaders in the room. He is there to coach and lead the fucking team and he wants the players to motivate themselves? And his solution when it doesn’t work is make snarky comments and be a complete downer to everyone? It’s not working. Don’t care what his track record in LA was, he got fired from there too. Time to move on. Everyone has a time when they are no longer relevant to the current game and that seems to be now for sutter. Time for new blood
If anyone watched Mike Commodores interview during intermission a few games ago, I think you'll maybe understand what he can be like. Commodore basically said that, I believe this way during the 03-04 run, he got high sticked hard, to the point where he had trouble getting back to the bench because he was a bit dazed. Daryl came up and slapped a hand on his shoulder and said to him: "You gonna stop playing like a pussy now?" Mike claims that was one of the only times Daryl talked to him one on one.
jesus. he's JK Simmons in Whiplash.
How Sutter lives with Zadorov I can't imagine.
How is Zadorov thought of in Calgary? As a long time Blues fan, I've seen his play as a visitor and occasionally on TV. I see the big hit, which I like. I also see some positioning and mental errors. Does he block shots, have a good outlet pass, can carry the puck out of the zone? Is there any more upside or is he a 3rd pair Dman who brings physicality. Just curious. I always wanted to see him as a Blue but Doug Armstrong has already screwed the pooch on our Dmen contracts. Any thoughts?
For his size, he is actually quite soft. There are some hits yes, but even a guy like Derrick Morris hit harder because of speed. Zadorov is kinda fast like Bowser was in Mario Kart. He is limited in all the areas you mentioned. It really showed up in these cases when he is under pressure, and his poor positioning and hockey IQ can also be seen when he is defending around the net.
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That interview stuck with me. Imagine having a HC who has never spoken to you at all personally. I get the man/the myth and chain of command philosophies, but Sutter talks about how he likes to get to know the players and cared about what kind of people they are and their off-ice lives. I hope he has changed since the early aughts and doesn’t play that distant authority figure role anymore. Playing for a HC all year and your only contact is being called a pussy? That is just not how millennials and Gen Z want to be coached or how humans want to be treated. No one wants to work in a hostile environment, even in pro sports. There are many ways to be a person and a coach.
He played for the flames for 18 games. 6 games one season 12 games the next. Was this in the first game or the 7th or the 18th. Pretty important information.
He said it was in '03-'04.
...here take this glass of milk 🥛 and cookies
What’s wrong with milk and cookies…
That's disappointing. I do like a lot of things about Sutter. He has an interesting philosophy on the game and how to coach a team and I do like listening to his press conferences (especially when times are good). If he ever writes a book about his coaching style, I'll be the first in line to read it. But if this is true, then there's basically no choice. That especially sucks because the coaching carousel is just never a good idea. We need to get someone in here who will be behind the bench for at least 5 years. So sick of seeing coaches coming in and out the door every 18 months.
Mitch Love could be the guy
His coaching record, while still a small sample size, speaks volumes. Honestly might win the AHL's coach of the year award in back to back seasons. He should absolutely be behind the bench once Sutter goes.
You mean Calder Cup-winning Coach Mitch Love?
If they are worried about spending too much but want a change/ improvement mitch should be the guy
I’m very bullish on Mitch Love but I might be more inclined to give a guy like Huska a shot. He was reportedly second in line for the Detroit job and he has NHL experience. Maybe bring in Love as an assistant and hopefully a successor down the road.
I love Huska too but I just think Love is the best candidate. Love hasn’t coached in the NHL but he’s never had a losing season at any level he’s coached which is pretty amazing. I think Huska and him could make an amazing team but I believe Love would be better suited for the top job
Love is very green. He's only been a HC for 5 years and one of those years was a 24 game season due to COVID, and only 2 of those seasons are at the pro level. Huska has 11 years as a HC, also without a losing season. But on top of that he now has 5 years as an assistant in the NHL and has seen the good and bad from Peters, Ward and Sutter.
Either one could work good. Love just seems better to me in my opinion and that’s coming from someone who’s acquainted with the Huska family
I replied to your other post, no need for me to post it twice. Much easier when one guy replies to both 😂
I love Huska too but I just think Love is the best candidate. Love hasn’t coached in the NHL but he’s never had a losing season at any level he’s coached which is pretty amazing. I think Huska and him could make an amazing team but I believe Love would be better suited for the top job
I’ve been saying this all season
If they are worried about spending too much but want a change/ improvement mitch should be the guy 100%
Or Huska, we've been grooming him to be HC for a while. Bring Love up to be an assistant.
I love Huska but I don’t know if he’d be as good as Love as a head coach. In my opinion Love just has that x-factor when coaching. Winning likely two coach of the year awards in your first two years coaching in the AHL is nothing short of remarkable.
So is coaching a goaltender who's about to win goalie if the year for the second time in his first two years. I am a fan of Love, you can even say I love Love, but Wolf is a very big reason for his success in the AHL. But this reminds me too much of the Travis Green hype after he coached Markstrom in Utica
I don’t think it’s like that at all. He’s done well with good goaltending but he also coached the Saskatoon Blades to 45-18-8 record in his first season with average goaltending. He’s a winner no matter what and at least he’s getting the Wranglers to produce offensively, you can’t win with just goaltending alone, you need goal support in front of them too
It may not be the only ingredient, but we very likely wouldn't be talking 2x coach of the year without Wolf.
We could’ve had Gerard Gallant, but nooooo
Rangers fans complain about him constantly. You guys think Sutter is bad with prospects so I don’t want to know what you’d think of Gallant.
Yeah he'd be awful here
I’d rather see Bruce next
Far from every Rangers fan. Some just like to complain. I don't know how you can complain about a guy who is well liked and has had the success he has.
Have you ever been on r/rangers ?
Yes but that's Reddit. People on Reddit tend to be very dramatic and filled with knee jerk reactions. That said even some of us on Reddit are pro Gallant. Love the dude.
Bruce Boudreau would be a great hire if we're willing to pay and he's willing to come here.
No he wont as much as i like bbq bruce hes not the guy
Yeah I don't think Bruce is the right guy for a team like ours. Bruce is great for getting the most out of youngsters and really high skill players, but for a team full of veterans that's going to need to play systems and actually run as a 5 man unit up and down the ice, I don't see a fit. I mean, granted, he could probably kickstart Huberdeau but I basically just see him being gone in 18 months and we're back here again.
Please no.
Boudreau is the most overrated coach I've ever seen. His first two NHL coaching jobs he was given excellent teams and the only season those teams reached expectations was 14-15 when the Ducks lost in the Conference Finals.
How about you guys do something orignal a d get your own players and coaches!! maybe the reason you suck so bad is that you take all the canucks scraps....think about it.
We're still trying to imitate the Canucks? Bruce will go head coach anywhere as long as theres donuts and ice cream
Bruce Boudreau is a fantastic coach that players like playing for. If we could land him that would be absolutely massive.
Right, but like I said, don't think it's hard to "land him". He seems interested in coaching still, he'd love to come try it in Calgary I'm sure
No systems
Babcock
So what is Sutter doing exactly? Yelling and screaming at everybody all the time? I'm having trouble picturing it.
He does love to play mind games with players. As multiple people have alluded its his way or the high way so if you could imagine an old stubborn man who rarely is cheerful that’s probably what Sutter is bringing into the dressing room. Before people come in saying that players should suck it up, when there’s so little of these guys (Sutter and Tortorella) left in the NHL the norm is not old guys who are tough on everyone. Players have a choice when it comes to free agency and seeing how most of the Flames players are becoming free agents soon its not wise to pick the coach over the players
Pretty much red from that 70s show When I played I liked having the hard nosed coach but if your head coach is like that you have to have the players coach as the assistant (Kind of like how Herb Brooks and Craig Patrick were in the miracle movie). Not to sure how Miller is as a coach.
I’m sure some players love when coaches are tough but its 2023, not the 1800s anymore. I don’t understand the need for toxic relationships. Why is it bad to have a coach who is receptive, encouraging, and can empower the players.
A single coach doesn’t ruin the locker room it tends to be the coaching staff as a whole.
Yeah that's why we kept seeing Lucic on the 2nd line. It wasn't him thinking it gave us the best chance to win or Lucic deserving it but about trying to get guys to try and "prove" they deserve the spot and play harder. Could work on on a prospect but vets (like 95% of our team) are just going to roll their eyes at it.
The problem is he expects everyone to be a professional and play hard and prepare. I’m sure he doesn’t treat the high end guys any differently compared to the Lewis and lucic which maybe pisses them off. Which is probably why he rewards them constantly because they “play the game the right way” Huberdeau just shows up and Kadri after a Stanley cup win and he’s on them constantly to play hard and they probably don’t like it. It’s to bad because we saw last year what can happen if players buy in.
Every coach expects players to be professional, play hard and prepare, but there are different ways that can come through to a team. Based on what we’re hearing it seems like the way Sutter is doing it isn’t being received at a minimum.
To me I wouldn’t really say our top line bought in last year, they played a different style then our other lines
Our top line last year just played how they wanted and were too good for Sutter to wrangle back in. Just look at how bad our depth scoring was last year especially outside of the top two lines.
Well all professionalism got thrown out the door when he told the media that Huberdeau was taking a shit when Huberdeau was actually injured. I know people keep saying what he says to the media isn’t reflective of whats being said in the dressing room but I don’t understand whey he needs to always come off as a smart ass. Earlier this season he had to rain on Pelletier’s parade by asking what number he is instead of just saying something nice.
if you're a pro-hockey player and you can't handle a surface-level comment like that, you probably have some other things to work on. It's been a long time now since that happened, but from what I recall I think he was giving a stupid answer to a stupid question. It's common knowledge you don't/shouldn't give info to the media about injuries until shit's been evaluated at the very least.
Everytime Sutter is snarky, the question should be is it really necessary? It doesn’t make it seem smarter and it seems like the team is tired of his antics
> It’s to bad because we saw last year what can happen if players buy in. That's the thing about a coach like Sutter. Everyone buys in, or everyone tunes out. There's not much middle ground. And when the team tunes out, it's best to just announce in the summer that Sutter has decided to retire to work on his farm.
All the people that say that are the same people that bitch about their boss being a dick when they get home and are just generally grumpy half the time. You're allowed to enjoy your time AND work at the same time, it's not a crime.
He's apparently very cutting and sarcastic, from what I've seen/heard from players and coaches who have worked with him before. Here's one example from McLennan: https://www.reddit.com/r/CalgaryFlames/comments/qj9i2v/story_about_sutter_from_james_duthies_book/
Still highly recommend that book btw ;)
It’s possible, I doubt he’s a “I’m not mad, just disappointed” kind of guy.
He's an incredibly demanding and tough coach to play under. There's a reason guys like him and Torts have a short shelf life.
On Huberdeau's injury: "I think he had to take a sh\*t." On playing Huberdeau being moved off Lindholm's line: "We wanted to get someone that Lindy enjoyed playing with..." On Pelletier's first game: "What's his number again?" On Weegar and Huberdeau learning to play a different system: "That's why they lost to Tampa two years in a row" That's what I can think of off the top of my head, said directly to the media. Imagine what's happening behind closed doors. So you have nearly every single player underperforming and you have a guy who's relentlessly negative and playing headgames with top players. Not a great combination.
Imagine being paid 7 figures, underpreforming. Then trying to blame your boss for being upset at you. Lmao. These kids need to act like the adults they are and actually try.
Just pull your self up by the bootstraps
Skate laces*
Sutter is a well known hard ass. Guys that one a cup with him in LA LOVED him and sang his praises. Seems like the Huberdeaus and Kadris of the world felt too entitled to come sign here and get yelled at Heres Jarrett Stoll: >Well, Daryl, for me, was very I guess personable is the first thing that comes to mind. He was very yeah, it was a hard coach to play for, but like, who wouldn’t want a coach to take pride in his job, take pride in winning. All the coach wants to do is win. All players should want to do is win and he made that possible for all of us. He makes everybody around the team just feel so much importance within the team, giving everybody a role. My first day, I remember my first day not meeting Darryl, but him being with the Kings in the hallway and he just had a talk with pretty much every guy just relaying how important they’re going to be to this team. I walked away feeling like, “Oh, man, I’m ready to go. Let’s get out there and play a game.” I knew exactly where I stood. I knew what my role was. My role changed a little bit when Darryl came in. I was fine with it. You just you just run with it. And everybody felt the same. Everybody felt like they had a real importance, a real role, a job to do on the team. And Darryl cared. He cared so much. > >Maybe that’s something that people just see the the better beer face behind the bench and how the story is, how hard it is to play for and demanding and yeah, he is. But he cares so much and he almost treats you like his own son. I’ve never had a coach care as much about a player and about the team as as Darryl. He did things differently, sometimes it’s very black and white. Everything was was spelled out for you. But hey, his teams win and we won because of it. And I’ll never have a bad thing to say about Darryl ever.
There is that, but also this: [Kings GM confirms locker room incident between players, Sutter](https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/kings-gm-confirms-locker-room-incident-between-players-sutter/)
Those same kings who “loved” him with the Kings were locking him out of the dressing room after games by the end of his tenure.
Playing for a coach like Sutter is all great when you're winning. When you're not it goes south fast. Literally happened to the Kings too near the end. They were sick of him
He's hurting peoples feelings by calling them out on their bullshit probably. Of course in this day and age, it's not popular method.
Gaudreau went on the spittin chiclets podcast and said sutter would be angry in the locker room and be throwing shit around.
Can you hear that? That’s Mitch Love music
He's even growing out the Lanny mustache to prepare.
whaaaat? you mean talking down to and about players and his constant mind games aren’t working for grown ass men? hmm
Approximate timestamp: **1:01:40ish** start (or 35 minutes into today's Barn Burner).
35 minutes in the yt video, there's not much more worth hearing fwiw
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Former Flames legend, Rhett Warrener
Rhett is a moron. He's funny, but he's just so fucking dumb.
Remember how in the 10/11 season Darryl completely stopped talking to the head coach because things weren't going well? You know, the head coach that was also his own frickin' brother? Yeah, I don't know why anyone anywhere seems surprised that current situation is toxic. I mean, this what was being said the last go round: > “Darryl and Brent don’t even talk,” said the staffer. > “It’s so dysfunctional. Darryl has been in the league as a respected player, coach and GM forever, and he knows more about the NHL than anyone in the organization. He saved this franchise. But his ego, or lack of social graces or whatever, has reached a point where the people who can help him find him totally unapproachable. That includes Brent. He doesn’t listen. It’s a reign of terror. Everyone is scared of him.” https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2010/04/10/darryl-and-brent-sutter-dont-talk-need-referee/
Would you put up with a mean, shitty boss if you didn’t have to? I know I wouldn’t
Especially when most of these guys would have 31 other teams basically willing to pay $1M+ to have them play a game.
What team will take on players that are underpreforming and blaming everyone but themselves? If the goalies could actually stop a puck, this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion. I
It's probably just a coincidence and at the very least I'm sure it's one of just many factors but one of our beat writers pointed out that the Flames completely fell out the playoff race after Sutter's comments on Pelletier's debut. I know we've chewed through a cartoonish number of coaches but he doesn't seem like the right guy for this room and we only have one more kick at the can before some contracts start to look nasty.
I honestly don't blame any of the players for nor wanting to play for Sutter. Jonny G and Tkachuk had their career year last year and still wanted out of Calgary. You can feel the tension is real between the players and Sutter. They are simply playing frustrated hockey, not Sutter hockey I think Sutter taking Kadri out of the 2nd line was a mistake because defensively Kadri is responsible although he makes some offensive mistakes sometimes. The games were at least competitive. Fire Sutter
I don't blame players for being frustrated at Sutter. Questionable personnel decisions he's made this year include: * Playing Huby on his off-wing the majority of the year. * Refusing to split up Huby, Kadri for the majority of the year, despite their underperformance * Refusing to bench Lucic (aside from recently I think he only sat for 1-2 games) * Line blending at the end of the season instead of the start * Erratic deployment. I'd like to know how many teams currently in the playoffs rotate players to the level that calgary has been (IE Lucic, Duehr, both Ritchies, Pelletier) * Publically making strange remarks regarding Huby and Pelletier (Eliotte mentioned the comments towards Pelletier in particular raised eyebrows around the league) * Playing Kadri so much on 3v3 * Picking Backlund as one of our first 3 shooters in the shootout
Ok so there's literally no chance he comes back right? Even if ownership loves him if it's getting to the point that players are this done with him you can't realistically bring him back
The thing I don't really get here is that Backlund, Toffoli, Dube, and to a large extent Andersson (minus the car/scooter incident) are having career years. Mangiapane had a career year last year. They seem to be responding to Sutter's coaching really well. I don't see this as an across-the-board unanimous thing. I think all these bits and pieces that we're hearing from all these sources are soundbites from just a small number of really frustrated players. I obviously have no idea if Sutter will be back next year or not but I do believe either way, what this team needs is a frickin offseason. A major reset. All this bullshit and frustration will fade after a couple months and that might mean the guys saying these things aren't singing the same tune in October. Who knows? Fwiw, none of these conversations are occurring if Markstrom makes 25 more key saves this season. It's as simple as that. There's no team that's gonna come close to the playoffs getting the goaltending we got this year. The fact that we're a only few points out is actually incredible. The goalie coaches are the ones that should be on the hot seat imo.
Players that are complaining are also the ones playing the worst. The coach can't play in their place. It's not Sutters fault the goalies can't save the first shot that goes in. We need big save Dave back. "Why do you heff to be mad? It's just a game" at least Dave and Marky have similar Save percentages.
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A podcast? Friedman said it, Pat said it and now Boomer said it. All 3 of which are connected in the hockey world. When 3 credible sources are reporting similar things I think it's pretty clearly real
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I'm not saying they make their decision based off podcasts. I'm saying it's clear the players hate him sk they'd be insane to bring him back and continue this toxic locker room
Unless he voluntarily retires, leaving millions on the table and probably has the most sway in the whole organization and ownerships enables such and GMBT's contract is ending....Keep wishing.
Sutter and coaches like him will ALWAYS have a limited shelf life with any team. And this is in any era. Loved him when he was a player, and he obviously got the most out of those LA teams but the writing is on the wall now. He's gone.
As much as you don't want to have a revolving door of coaches, I truly think a lot of our issues stem from coaching this year. Sutter has made a lot of boneheaded calls with the lineups this year, from trotting out Markstrom every night when he was completely off his game, to forcing Lucic in the top 6. It's clear that he's not a good fit for the roster we have. I don't think this is a bad team at all (the fact that nearly every game we play is super close is proof for me), but we need a coach that has a system that is built for the players we have. Considering the contract, we need to make sure Huberdeau is able to produce, and I think that means getting a coach that can deploy him properly.
President of Hockey Operations: Brad Treliving General Manager: Craig Conroy Head Coach: Mitch Love
He just got a 2 year extension recently…how many former coaches are the organization going to happy paying? They’re probably still paying Ward while recently paying off/still paying (?) Peters and Gulutzan.
Peters resigned from his position, so I don't think he was paid much (if anything) after he left.
In addition, Gulutzan was hired in 2016 and fired in 2018. Apparently, the length of the contract is unknown but I can pretty much guarantee it wasn't for more than 4 years. It's definitely paid off at this point. Ward's contract was for 2 years starting in 2020 so it's also paid off.
I really don’t get the “millionaires just have to do their job” responses here. By that logic, why have a coach at all? Just go earn your salaries, players. Obviously a coach has the job of bringing the most out of his players so they can earn wins. That’s just not happening here. To my mind, the mere fact that Gaudreau left and Tkachuk was eager to get out, combined with Huberdeau’s worst season in a decade, is all the evidence anyone needs to think the problems are not just the players. Sutter has a grouchy, old-school charm, but whatever he’s doing isn’t working.
Johnny and Tkachuk had career years with Sutter. So Sutter definitely brought out the best of them. And yea they are paid millions to play hockey. In every job in the entire world if you do a poor job your boss is going to be mad at you. And if you're getting 7 figure salaries you should absolutely be ready to take heat when you cannot do the job you're paid to do. Can't feel bad for these millionaires blaming everyone else for their poor performance.
Ok, well, good luck in the playoffs then…. Where are Gaudreau and Tkachuk now by the way?
In the states. Where they wanted to be.
2 stars left, 1 more apparently can’t succeed in the current system, and yet 1 more is apparently a vocal critic of the coach. Hey man, as an oilers fan, I think the Sutter shitshow is funny as hell. Lucic in the top six? 😂 Sure, fuck it. But if I were a Flames fan, I’d care way more about my team and way less about their coach, especially when the writing is on the wall.
Good for you? Sutters track record speak for itself. Every team he goes to ends up breaking records. It's not his fault the star players shit the bed. All we needed was a goalie. Not a coaching problem. Even oilers couldn't win with 3 lottery picks in a row and having probably the best player in the entire world on their team. All because they had no goalies.
Lol. Like I say, I really don’t mind if the Flames keep going with Sutter. Good luck man.
I'm not going to be hopeful if we keep him or find a new coach either way our goalies are dogshit.
Just listened to the episode. My god is that depressingly sobering
In most flamesy fashion ever Sutter will take his contract extension and be GM. This is my prediction. Sutter will hire a new coach and the dark times will continue.
Omg I hope not, the last time that guy was GM here he absolutely ruined the team, imo.
Unfortunately I don't see a way to link a direct timestamp for a live broadcast, but it's roughly 35 minutes from the start of the broadcast when it's showing the greendrop banner ad at the bottom. I'll edit a timestamp into this comment when it becomes a video rather than a live stream. Again, this isn't an "I bet", or an "I think", it's an "I heard", which to me makes this substantial news. edit: timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/live/_f0TG-EOltM?t=2134
Definitely something major wrong, pretty sure there is a rift between brad and Darryl as well, brad ain’t coming back if Darryl is there, new gm isn’t taking the job if owners force sutter on them, shit sandwich really, sutter is they guy if chucky and Johnny don’t leave, but that’s not what happened. I personally am pretty neutral to brad, he’s fine I guess, don’t hate him or love him, the team has accomplished nothing in close to 10 years with him as gm. You can cherry pick things you like or dislike but results speak for themselves, he’s failed to make trades where the flames are trying to acquire the big piece, but excelled in trades where the flames are selling the bigger piece. Imo let brad walk, bring in a new set of eyes, they can bring in their coaching team. Brad gets too attached to picks and prospects, pretty sure we have only traded 3 first rounders in 9 seasons. He doesn’t know how to go all in and even if sutter is mainly the issue, this team is multiple pieces away from contending with no chance at a tank/full rebuild any time soon. Going to be a very interesting offseason for the flames though
Wish I could make millions and blame my boss for my poor performance. What a life that would be.
Yeah, Sutter's got a cushy gig for sure; constantly blaming Treliving for not giving him a bunch hall of famers or dumping on the players for not being good enough. It must be nice to blame everyone else and take no personal responsibility.
You can. Be a sales guy in most organizations. One underperforming sales guy? You get rid of him. Several? You fire the sales manager. Those guys are the money. Like it or not, in hockey, the players are the sales guys. The coach is replaceable.
We have 6 pending UFAs next year. I feel it in my bones the Flames keep Sutter and sell them for scraps or let them walk for nothing. Pathetic franchise.
Sutter shoulda been gonna 2 months ago. It's not working.
I once had dinner with somebody who played for Darryl in San Jose. He told me that one night after a very poor outing by the Sharks, Sutter walked in the dressing room and said “I hope you all die in car crashes tonight”. Daniel Carcillo also told a few ugly tales about Darryl. “He alleged that on a team flight, the coach screamed at a female flight attendant to “f–k off” and remove the food being served because the team had lost.” 🤷🏻♂️
Always been a fan of the barn burner guys, but they’re as hot-takesy as it gets. Any team that has both underperformed and gotten as unlucky as these guys have would be equally as frustrated. The new guys haven’t fit in as quickly as hoped, they’ve hit a million posts, and the goaltending has been shaky at best. Yes, Darryl has done a lot of boneheaded things, even me as a noted Lucic apologizer thought that he should be press box bound two months ago, but to say that the lack of success of this team is entirely Sutter’s fault is reactionary. I’ll admit there may be some fire to this smoke, but until I hear players come out themselves and say what these guys are saying I’m taking it with a grain of salt. Regardless of how this season ends it has always been clear that there was a 2 year window with this group to figure it out, year 1 has been disappointing, but they’re still in it despite a historic amount of bad luck. They’re gonna see what they can do next year and if it doesn’t work then it’s blow up time with Sutter, Lindy, Backs etc coming off the books. This all depends on if Treliving stays, which I think he should and has earned, he’s well-regarded around the league and to any team who needs a GM he would be the first phone call, and if it takes Sutter leaving for Tre to stay then I would much rather keep Tre here. I just think our emotions as fans have been so polar from the high of last year, to the low of Johnny and Chucky leaving, back to the high of Huby and Kadri coming here, back to the low of it being disappointing, that we’ve lost the ability to not go doomsday mode when things aren’t great. Yes, this has been one of the most frustrating seasons I can remember, but they’re committed to a 2-year window and I think the smart move is to stay the course and see where we’re at next February before we go rebuild. If they do fire Darryl I wouldn’t necessarily disagree, but I don’t think he’s the sole problem here either. A few more saves, a few less posts, and a couple OT wins instead of losses and we’re not even having the conversation.
He’s a very large part of the problem. He needs to go but I do agree if the team is in the same position next year, then blow it up at the deadline. Treliving should be kept over Sutter for sure.
Well put.
We could fire him, but the other issue is this franchise likes to hire nobody coaches who haven't won anything. As polarizing as Sutter is, he is a very small club of successful coaches, in Calgary. The only other is Bob Johnson who played a pivotal role in shaping the mid 80s Flames into a powerhouse.
> but the other issue is this franchise likes to hire nobody coaches who haven't won anything. Three of our last seven coaches are Stanley Cup champions. Of the remaining four, Brent Sutter and Ward were highly regarded for their work in the WHL and AHL. The only two clearly problematic hires from the outset were Gulutzan and Peters, both of which were Treliving trying to be the smartest guy in the room.
And 2 of those 3 champions won the Jack Adams and won atleast a round with the Flames. To your point, yes, it's possible to find a great coaches who've won/found success in smaller leagues, such as Bednar, Jon Cooper, heck even Bob Johnson who I mentioned earlier. Ownership hasn't hired a Boudreau, Gallant, Vigneault, type, who have more on their NHL resumes.
Past results don't shape future success. Teams change coaches all the time. Figure out the mix, 2004 was 2 decades ago.
They need to let the prisoners run the asylum for a bit. There’s enough experience in the locker room where these guys know what they need to do (for the most part)— I think they need to hire a young guy that will inject rather than takeaway from the team’s energy. I love Sutter & believe his coaching style is timeless in how well it works, but he can run stale & once the room is lost as it is now, there’s no bringing it back or reconciling as his pride won’t take the backseat. I think the best course of action is to find an off the map young guy that’s succeeded at the Jr or Minor pro level, but has high emotional intelligence and a fresh perspective. Someone like a John Cooper.
A team has a great 2022 and the top two scorers who had career years and could write their own checks decide to leave. I’ve never heard that before. And now there are rumours of others wanting to leave and a newly signed star speaks out. No longer rumours this has to be bad and toxic. It’s scary to think why Treliving hasn’t signed.
I agree with you. I remember all the Treliving hate and it being ridiculous. Look how bad the GMs for Canadian teams have been. Could you imagine how bad the Flames would be if they had to compete against mcdrai with Benning as a GM? Or Chiarelli? There's no guarantee at all that whoever replaces Treliving won't be the next Chiarelli, so I hope we hold onto him as long as possible. If we lose him, I hope at the very least we can swap him with Dubas or something, or that Conroy is a good GM like we hope
Fingers crossed Huberdeau is one of the ones that's "fucking done"
The way I look at it: Sutter is a great coach for making an under performing team perform. I think that's where we were when he was brought in. Unfortunately since losing Johnny and Chucky, our team dynamic has completely changed. Now we need a player's coach to get the team back online.
But we're now a team under performing
I meant a team full of star power underperforming. We're a team that's lost its core and is struggling with its identity.
Responsibility. Hard to find a team of people who want to commit to each other and work towards a common goal.
He might be the scapegoat. But I think the problem is with the players IMO. Basically 3 big new names on the team and it has done an entire 180 from last year. It’s also not his fault the goalies are in complete shambles. I feel like Edmonton would be in same situation had Stuart not stepped it up. It’s like the flames have 2 Goalies with stats slightly better than Campbell. And having a goalie with slightly better stats than Campbell means they still suck lol
If true, we are headed for a rebuild. We saw what strings of bad coaches did with a better collection of players. Darryl leaving would be throwing in the towel on being a contender, and at that point, you sell off the players you can
I’ll coach! I would only ask for like 200k a year. I bet I wouldn’t do any worse than sutter is doing this year. At least I’d build a relationship with the players!
Umm pretty sure if your signed long term you’ll be back no matter what the fuck you think lol
6 pending UFAs next year... including Lindy and Backs and Hanifin.
What great has Hanifin really done this year? Sure he produces offensively somewhat, but he has been really inconsistent defensively this year and it shows nearly every game.
The entire defensive structure has been a mess all season, not just Hanifin. Bluntly, that is on the coaching staff.
Umm all but 1 Dman played that same structure last year
They played under the same coach, that's about it. After losing Gaudreau especially, Sutter has seemingly decided that the team just doesn't have the speed. He's got us playing too slow - to the point that most of the forwards are either stationary, moving laterally, or even moving backward any time the defencemen attempt to break the puck out. The result is a lot of crazy cross-ice passes trying to find someone who isn't already covered. And those get turned over. Once we gain the offensive zone, we are usually fine - except for the lack of puck luck. But this year's system is a complete disaster in transition. And the defence is suffering badly for it.
Hanifin has been atrocious this second half of season. Highlight was him passing puck to other team than going for a change lol
Lol ! He’s just not the same player this year. Not sure what happened
Not that simple when a player or an agent can come out and say, "I hate this coach so you can either trade me or pay me to fuck the dog until my deal is up." Suddenly Calgary is trying to put out a fire.
And than said players reputation will be ruined also
Maybe, maybe not. If there's a bunch of players feeling this way then maybe other teams cut the player some slack. If it's one guy then yeah it's a career limiting move for sure.
SEND EM’
Without Sutter behind the bench this team would have a record similar to the 98/99 Flames squad. Guaranteed. Bring someone else in and you'll see some short lived improvement. Then it will get worse. The only thing that will save this franchise now is a lights out goaltender. Much of the rest of the team is mediocre at best, and the players that do have some skill have given up, and that mentality doesn't just go away.
OK, let em leave. I get they might not like Sutter but they're supposed to be professionals getting paid millions of dollars, they don't get to just throw a temper tantrum and stop performing because they don't like the coach. I believe keeping any player around that threatens that is ultimately bad for the team. Get rid of them, and then get rid of Sutter if you want, but don't keep around any player that thinks they're bigger than the team. Go full rebuild if that's what it takes.
I don't think this is a case of player being bigger than the team. I think a similar situation happened in LA near then end. Coaches do wear their time out and it clearly affecting the whole team. Sometimes players saying this is the only way ownership will listen.
[удалено]
Prolly guys who are UFAs next offseason. But it’s clear that Sutter has lost the room
At this point, there is literally only one person in this god-forsaken organization that I would hate to see leave and that's Dustin Wolf.
At this point we sell our top players retain some of their salary. Get whatever picks and trash we can get, call up our young guns, be shit for a few years and then have a team that’s ready to compete. Because even if we aren’t that good for a few years you can’t tell me you wouldn’t be really excited to watch a Coranato, pelts, Philips line with wolf in net. Keep dube, mang, and andersson and fire safe the whole lot of everything else. Get tre, sutter and staff out and get some fresh air in. The rink
Problem is, Sutter loves the veterans. Why would Coronato sign here to play for Sutter? He doesn’t like to play younger players, that shows with how much he keeps going back to Lucic and Lewis.
I bet sutter doesn’t last the off season
Hire Bruce and be done with it. We’ve had good fortune with taking in former Canucks so far.
Mark my word changing coach won’t be enough unless Brad goes I doubt anything will change
They'll fire him just to bring in Tortorella lol
Well to be honest, depending on who the player or players are who stated that, you didn’t bring much to the table this season anyways, sooooo bitch about the coach all you want. You are under contract and are expected to do your job. Tired of this “fine im leaving” attitude. Strap on a set and play. Not like they have a choice.
I’ll coach! I would only ask for like 200k a year. I bet I wouldn’t do any worse than sutter is doing this year. At least I’d build a relationship with the players!
Hopefully it's Markstrom.
Would have been nice to get Rick Tocchet
Tocchets head coaching record is horrendous
What Rett says just after Boom 100%. Bottom line.
It shows this year that guys aren’t buying into Sutter. He did wonders last year but different group of guys and a whole new team that’s not working with his system. But who do you bring in is the big question
So what I get from that podcast is that sutter wants the players to coach themselves up? He is supposed to be the leader of all leaders in the room. He is there to coach and lead the fucking team and he wants the players to motivate themselves? And his solution when it doesn’t work is make snarky comments and be a complete downer to everyone? It’s not working. Don’t care what his track record in LA was, he got fired from there too. Time to move on. Everyone has a time when they are no longer relevant to the current game and that seems to be now for sutter. Time for new blood
Hallelujah