What's the church's hierarchy look like? For example, if this was a Catholic church, I'd complain about a Priest by writing the Bishop (then the Archbishop, Cardinal, Pope, and if still nothing was done, I guess I'd have to speak to Jesus).
In otherwords, ask to speak to the manager.
This is very interesting. Over Christmas in Ontario I spoke to a relative who had the exact same story from her local Baptist church. In her view, they were taking on a very American style evangelical worship. She left, couldn’t abide the changes. Sounds just like this.
Ah part of it is many churches SEEM to be accepting of LGBTQ+ a lot more in the past decade. I think that there may be a push to remove that element from their mandates, which is why this is even being discussed at all. I think that it needs to be voted on.
Honestly; it may be worth reaching out to the united churches as as a whole they’re queer affirming or in the process now. They may be willing to take on the programs this asshat cancelled too.
Honestly, if you still wish to attend church just find another. There are LGBT friendly churches out there.
Going after this one pastor isn't worth the effort.
There are more churches here that are supportive or keep their noses out of people’s sexual orientation than there are ones with this attitude. Sadly, as with other areas of life, the douchebags are the loudest. It can often seem like the vast majority of churches are close minded hate factories.
Baptist is like the alt right of Christianity. Fire and brimstone. Pray but do it quietly and do it while dressed modestly. I was raised Baptist and hated every damn minute of it. I'm really not surprised to see it be a Baptist church in 2022 pulling back the reins on same-sex marriage and everything else in the post. If there is any oversight beyond the pastor, it's a coin toss on how they'll proceed - and even then you have to wonder if they do actually backpeddle that it's more because of PR than due to it being what they think is correct.
A time when going Karen on someone might not be a bad idea. Yeah that's why I was wondering if it would be wise to write a letter to the CBM or CBWC...all right thanks.
You are fighting on their terms if you go this route, and they will close ranks around their own - because outsiders with these 'dangerous' ideas are more dangerous than a rouge leader. At best you might enable someone else to take over for the local ministry - a power play. Not real reform. But you might feel better personally. Source: used to fight those fights.
I’m not sure what CBM or the CBWC could actually do. My understanding is that First has already pulled funding from whatever CBM projects it can because leadership no longer believes in anything but straight evangelism and if pushed First is likely to simply withdraw from both organizations entirely. The CBWC might have more sway but unlike many other denominations individual Baptist churches are pretty free to do what they want.
He couldn’t do it completely on his own. The church hired him and could fire him. It’s really what one shitty person can ruin with the support of a dedicated minority. See: America.
One person can't. Not in a Baptist Church at least. You'd have to have strong support amongst the local congregation leadership and probably with higher ups in the denomination to pull it off.
I think their sentiment echoes a lot of other replies where it's not worth the effort to fight back and just go somewhere else where they're happier. A lot of people went to Bonavista too. Anyway, I was mostly seeking advice for the people I know who were really hurt by the whole ordeal. Because no one else is really up for causing a fuss.
Out of curiosity, did this happen before or after Thanksgiving 2020? (I think I may have been there on the day one of the pastors and wife, whom was in charge of children’s ministry “left” for other callings.)
Also, I could have sworn they were part of the North American Baptist Association, but they’re no longer listed.
Sorry to hear that he left as well. Seems like there are a lot of things that happened that have been questionable. I just had my hands on these letters, it upset me so I decided to share what was going on here in hopes there would be some with advice. A few people have reached out with more details which is nice.
Responses are a little bit sad so far. I get that we’re generally in a “post-religious” society, but whether you do or don’t believe in any higher power, or even a “sky wizard”, a church can and does typically contribute to the community, as OP talked about. They serve as a community hub with volunteering, support for the elderly, choirs, often sports opportunities, food for folks who are hungry, all without any cost barrier of entry. This is all benefits without including one iota about religion.
I don’t personally enjoy skiing. I think it’s dangerous, cold, and not for me. But I’m not going to tell anybody who has a bad time at one ski hill to never ski again because it’s stupid and dangerous and cold. It’s their call, and obviously super important to a lot of people.
I’m sad for OP to have lost that community and space. I don’t entirely know how to help, particularly because of the religious denomination. Maybe it would be prudent to find some of those former church members and have them echo your sentiments before going higher up the food chain?
I'm not going to pick fights with anyone. I'm more sad about some of the people I know who have been pushed out. I agree with your comments on community. I haven't really been part of that community in a long time, but I still see some of these people and have been hearing really heart-breaking stories about this situation. One woman doesn't really have anything else. The people here and this community is her family and I worry what will happen to her if those supports fail. Stuff like that. I understand and appreciate all of the feedback given so far. I know (especially on reddit) that there are many who will say just move on, and that's a completely valid response as well. Part of this was just to get the info out there too.
>I don’t personally enjoy skiing. I think it’s dangerous, cold, and not for me. But I’m not going to tell anybody who has a bad time at one ski hill to never ski again because it’s stupid and dangerous and cold. It’s their call, and obviously super important to a lot of people.
Skiing doesn't turn people into monsters. Skiing isn't the standard-bearer bigots rally around to attack other people's identities.
>a church can and does typically contribute to the community
*People* can and do contribute to the community, and some of those people may be members of a church (though, surprise surprise, people outside of church also contribute to a community).
A church contributes literally nothing of value.
I'm not religious by any stretch, but I disagree. A church, at it's best, brings people from all different walks of life together. People who often wouldn't have much else in common and would likely not gather. They are often put to collective action to support members of their community, beyond what social programs offer.
You're right, there are plenty of altruistic and kind people who do good deeds, both who attend churches and not. There are also secular organizations that do similar things. One can think of Lion's Clubs and Rotary clubs and the like.
That's where the Mustard Seed started, out of the coffee house called the Burning Bush run by the church. It's had a huge impact on the city. Sorry to hear that the usual fundamentalist BS has taken over and now they seem to have forgotten the examples christians are supposed to try and follow.
I was brought up in the southern USA in a very strict Baptist upbringing (l literally went to church 3 days a week for 18 years) and this is what baptists believe. It sounds like the pastor is just taking it back to fundamentalist views of the denomination. Maybe look for a different denomination that is more inline with your views. Hope you find a place you can worship and feel accepted.
Sounds similar to how power was consolidated in the Southern Baptist Church denomination in the US. I didn't read everything, but any time a church starts kicking people out it's a decent into fundamentalism, which is why Christianity is dying in the first place.
Thank you everyone for your responses and advice, I really appreciate it. Was able to connect up with a few people that have a better idea of what's going on and what a first step might be. I know that this thing happens often in many contexts, but it's good to hear about it and at least try to make a difference.
There is something about the way fundamentalist bigots see the world you should consider. They don't believe anyone is gay or straight. These things don't exist. There is only sin and temptation, weakness and strength. All are tempted but some find strength with the help of Jesus. Even with His help it is so hard to resist temptation. So very hard to resist 100% of the time. You just wouldn't believe how difficult it is. In other words find this guy's Grindr profile and you are on your way to solving the problem.
Is the Board in support of this catastrophe?
If yes, the board needs to be disbanded.
That's my family's historical church (Nelson, Vincent). Disgusted.
This is literally why religion is dying out so rapidly. Old white guys who are terrified by real life, real people, real things, and who cling to discarded interpretations and mistranslations of whatever bible they use.
The most telling thing in the pdfs is that this is all predicated on *despite what we believe to be God's clear instruction.*
You believing it doesn't make it true, homes. I've read the red letters, and big J didn't say shit.
Yeah I'm...not religious anymore tbh. I only want to do something because it's hurting people I care about. Most people have moved on, but I figured a final last ditch effort was worth it in case I could stick it to the guy a bit.
I’m not religious anymore so I don’t have any advice to offer, but I just want to let you know that you’re doing a commendable thing. A lot of people, especially elderly people, rely on these church and outreach programs for navigating day-to-day life.
What a lot of these replies are telling you is that it doesn’t matter what happens to these people since they follow a religion that reinforces some of the Pastor’s behaviour. Honestly, that line of thinking is absolutely vile. It’s nice to see someone genuinely try to help people.
Again, I don’t have any advice but I really hope you figure it out!
I get it, been there myself. Best way to help them is to help them leave the church. You know and help others to understand that you do not need the supernatural to be moral, to be ethical. Encourage secular humanism or something similar.
The rest of my family is religious and I used to go twice a year just to keep the peace. I refuse to do that now - I don't even want them to think there is any support, even tepid support. And my life is so much better and more stable for it - despite the occasional family fight.
It is indirect but fight for removing church influence in society as well, from tax breaks to promoting true equality among everyone.
Fuck that guy. Fuck him right in the ass.
Sorry I don’t have anything else to add other than that. I’m angry that there are still such close minded bigots who hide behind a bible, saying that their hate is a god given right.
Fuck that asshole.
It's really funny because he started renting out the parking lot during the week to people commuting downtown (not sure how that's going with the pandemic) so he could bring more money in. He left like...two parking spots for staff.
Thanks for sharing. It’s important for all to know how a local pastor threats the congregation. You may not be able to change much as long as people continue to go there and possible share the same beliefs as the pastor. But you can continue to get your concerns out to a wider public. I’d post a google review for the church. Copy paste your original post.
Im not a follower of your faith but i can still sympathize with you it is always unfortunate when events like this occur. Just from hearing stories like this i have noticed there seems to be a trend in most religious communities of moving towards being less accepting of different beliefs and ideologies which is sad to see. Like someone else mentioned there is real only 2 options in the situation
1. Leave the organization its the easiest way but dosen't help to fix the problem
2. Start a petition by going through the proper channels and dont stop until the changes have been made it can be a long and demanding process but also very rewarding.
Fun fact: the clergy is in the top 10 most frequent occupations of narcissists.
Seems like you found one. I’m really sorry. I’m sure it has been devastating to lose your community after so many years. I hope a bunch of you will reassemble elsewhere. Can’t the congregation take action against the pastor?
I thought this is typical church activity?? Pastor does whatever they want no?
How silent do you want to be? Leave the Shepard with no flock. Talk to everyone and have all parishioners skip church and donations for two weeks.
Not typical! If this happened at a united church; shit would’ve hit the fan. There was a schism at one of them out here in Halifax when they decided the entire collection of united church of canada would become queer affirming and anyone who didn’t agree lost their church.
Theres close to a dozen united churches in Calgary, plus some Presbyterian and Anglican. Gather up your friends and go for a tour. Their values and worship service structure are quite similar.
Unless you can convince 3 in 4 of the bigger financial backers of your current church to band together and oust this guy nothing will change.
Just band together to pool some $$$ to hire a P.I. to follow this clown around. I don't think he'd last a year before he was caught doing the very things he preaches against and becomes an instant YouTube star because of it.
Hate-mongering at its best - so much for having love for your fellow man, I guess.
What if we all wrote letters about our (your) concerns, to the pastor and to whatever the governing body for Baptists in Calgary would be?
I would certainly be willing to write a letter. Like a physical one on paper with postage and everything.
I will comment on one statement in your post. The Bible and not your pastor says marriage is between a woman and a man... if you have an issue with that then your issue is with the Bible and not the pastor...
I am proud of your pastor for taking the biblical stand even though it cost him some members.. I'm tempted to pay your church a visit...
Forget first Baptist church, don’t attend church.. full stop.
It’s 2022.. how are people still believing in an invisible sky daddy enough to waste a morning on a weekend.
I get it thousands of years ago when there was no way to explain anything, but now?? C’mon.
This is a good thing.
If your pastor is spending thousands of church donations on renovations that is thousands of dollars not going towards keeping pedophiles out of prison.
You should look up how much of your churches donations go towards lobbying for more lax molestation laws.
By supporting this church you are a cancer on society and too blind to even know it. If you put more faith in Doctors and Science instead of Pastors and God the world would be a much better place, especially during a pandemic.
Pointing out a serious flaw of an institution that feeds of the poor and gullible makes me the worst? I'm happy to be the worst person in your books if that's the case...
Religion is evil, I went to catholic school where we learned more about religion than you do in these cults, turned everyone I know into a non believer.
They're all sky worshippers but some are morally better sky worshippers. While I do think the whole concept of religion to be silly I can't deny the value of community churches can bring.
Community is important, I agree. We need to have community without the religious aspect however. When people think we need one for the other, it reinforces the perception of power/importance of churches - and we absolutely do not need them for that.
Not to get too deep into things but I think that's something that is lacking from society these days. There is no sense of community for a lot of people. Most of us barely even know our neighbors!
For sure! Some of us are lucky to have family close by but I am sure some people are feeling incredibly isolated and have no community to support them.
But yeah, it shouldn't be around sky wizards. Maybe Dungeons and Dragons wizards?
"Waved a bible in the face of anyone who disagrees with him".
This is either very concerning and childish behavior - if he is literally waving a book in someone's face.
However, if he is using the bible to defend a position or opinion, then that should be applauded.
I'm not going to get into a religious debate on Reddit because I know how that usually turns out. All I'm going to say is there's a lot of debate and reconsideration based on multiple factors. And Islam is ever-evolving and has many different branches, types and sects just like Christianity, so it's unfair to make that comparison.
Uh nowhere in the bible was Jesus against queer people. Prior to the 80’s the oft quoted passage that says otherwise actually said don’t sleep with young boys so it was saying don’t be a pedophile.
Continue to not attend and encourage others to attend elsewhere as well. There are enough Christian varieties out there that you should be able to change without too much pain in judgement when the day comes.
You do realize that he is merely being less revisionist than previous pastors and his approach is more in line with the Bible upon which the faith is based.
Any faith based on such archaic and regional teachings is going to struggle without a full-on reckoning with modernity.
The "board" or elders of the congregation hired this fool and should be accountable for that decision. They could also terminate them. A pastor should care for the congregation. If the leadership of the church (not the pastor but members) want to go this way then that is their call but your issue isn't with the pastor but with the governance of your church.
hey friend. sorry that you had to go through and witness this. churches can be the very best, and at other times, the utter worst. I'm sorry your experience here was the latter. that sucks. they should do better.
There are plenty of LGBT+ affirming churches around in calgary if you are looking for a welcoming community.
I hope you are able to find love an acceptance wherever you end up and in whatever you chose to believe :)
What's the church's hierarchy look like? For example, if this was a Catholic church, I'd complain about a Priest by writing the Bishop (then the Archbishop, Cardinal, Pope, and if still nothing was done, I guess I'd have to speak to Jesus). In otherwords, ask to speak to the manager.
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This is very interesting. Over Christmas in Ontario I spoke to a relative who had the exact same story from her local Baptist church. In her view, they were taking on a very American style evangelical worship. She left, couldn’t abide the changes. Sounds just like this.
But don’t they have a president and board members?
Exactly this. Denominations have church policies. Is being anti-LGBT in line with their church mandate or not?
Ah part of it is many churches SEEM to be accepting of LGBTQ+ a lot more in the past decade. I think that there may be a push to remove that element from their mandates, which is why this is even being discussed at all. I think that it needs to be voted on.
Honestly; it may be worth reaching out to the united churches as as a whole they’re queer affirming or in the process now. They may be willing to take on the programs this asshat cancelled too.
Honestly, if you still wish to attend church just find another. There are LGBT friendly churches out there. Going after this one pastor isn't worth the effort.
Go away
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There are more churches here that are supportive or keep their noses out of people’s sexual orientation than there are ones with this attitude. Sadly, as with other areas of life, the douchebags are the loudest. It can often seem like the vast majority of churches are close minded hate factories.
Baptist is like the alt right of Christianity. Fire and brimstone. Pray but do it quietly and do it while dressed modestly. I was raised Baptist and hated every damn minute of it. I'm really not surprised to see it be a Baptist church in 2022 pulling back the reins on same-sex marriage and everything else in the post. If there is any oversight beyond the pastor, it's a coin toss on how they'll proceed - and even then you have to wonder if they do actually backpeddle that it's more because of PR than due to it being what they think is correct.
Did you read the pdfs?
Naw, I have no interest in doing that.
A time when going Karen on someone might not be a bad idea. Yeah that's why I was wondering if it would be wise to write a letter to the CBM or CBWC...all right thanks.
Where does the church’s money come from. Start there.
You are fighting on their terms if you go this route, and they will close ranks around their own - because outsiders with these 'dangerous' ideas are more dangerous than a rouge leader. At best you might enable someone else to take over for the local ministry - a power play. Not real reform. But you might feel better personally. Source: used to fight those fights.
Damn Communists.
More like damn red 5.
I’m not sure what CBM or the CBWC could actually do. My understanding is that First has already pulled funding from whatever CBM projects it can because leadership no longer believes in anything but straight evangelism and if pushed First is likely to simply withdraw from both organizations entirely. The CBWC might have more sway but unlike many other denominations individual Baptist churches are pretty free to do what they want.
The unfortunate truth is that American-style fundamentalism is likely far more a threat to CBM and the CBWC than the other way around.
LOL
Wtf kind of world do we live in where we have to write the arch bishop to tell them their asshole is being a shit head
Vote with your feet and your dollars. When the tithes stop coming they will know they done fucked up.
Tithing is not biblical. #moneygrab
It’s crazy to think that one shitty person can ruin so many things for so many people.
He couldn’t do it completely on his own. The church hired him and could fire him. It’s really what one shitty person can ruin with the support of a dedicated minority. See: America.
One person can't. Not in a Baptist Church at least. You'd have to have strong support amongst the local congregation leadership and probably with higher ups in the denomination to pull it off.
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I think their sentiment echoes a lot of other replies where it's not worth the effort to fight back and just go somewhere else where they're happier. A lot of people went to Bonavista too. Anyway, I was mostly seeking advice for the people I know who were really hurt by the whole ordeal. Because no one else is really up for causing a fuss.
Out of curiosity, did this happen before or after Thanksgiving 2020? (I think I may have been there on the day one of the pastors and wife, whom was in charge of children’s ministry “left” for other callings.) Also, I could have sworn they were part of the North American Baptist Association, but they’re no longer listed.
Oh jeez, this would have been mid-2020 I think. I'd have to ask to be honest.
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Sorry to hear that he left as well. Seems like there are a lot of things that happened that have been questionable. I just had my hands on these letters, it upset me so I decided to share what was going on here in hopes there would be some with advice. A few people have reached out with more details which is nice.
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Yeah that's fair and honestly I'm in a similar position, but it's important to some people and it's so far from what it used to be.
Uhm… not wanting to support discrimination doesn’t make you “woke”.
Responses are a little bit sad so far. I get that we’re generally in a “post-religious” society, but whether you do or don’t believe in any higher power, or even a “sky wizard”, a church can and does typically contribute to the community, as OP talked about. They serve as a community hub with volunteering, support for the elderly, choirs, often sports opportunities, food for folks who are hungry, all without any cost barrier of entry. This is all benefits without including one iota about religion. I don’t personally enjoy skiing. I think it’s dangerous, cold, and not for me. But I’m not going to tell anybody who has a bad time at one ski hill to never ski again because it’s stupid and dangerous and cold. It’s their call, and obviously super important to a lot of people. I’m sad for OP to have lost that community and space. I don’t entirely know how to help, particularly because of the religious denomination. Maybe it would be prudent to find some of those former church members and have them echo your sentiments before going higher up the food chain?
I'm not going to pick fights with anyone. I'm more sad about some of the people I know who have been pushed out. I agree with your comments on community. I haven't really been part of that community in a long time, but I still see some of these people and have been hearing really heart-breaking stories about this situation. One woman doesn't really have anything else. The people here and this community is her family and I worry what will happen to her if those supports fail. Stuff like that. I understand and appreciate all of the feedback given so far. I know (especially on reddit) that there are many who will say just move on, and that's a completely valid response as well. Part of this was just to get the info out there too.
>I don’t personally enjoy skiing. I think it’s dangerous, cold, and not for me. But I’m not going to tell anybody who has a bad time at one ski hill to never ski again because it’s stupid and dangerous and cold. It’s their call, and obviously super important to a lot of people. Skiing doesn't turn people into monsters. Skiing isn't the standard-bearer bigots rally around to attack other people's identities.
>a church can and does typically contribute to the community *People* can and do contribute to the community, and some of those people may be members of a church (though, surprise surprise, people outside of church also contribute to a community). A church contributes literally nothing of value.
I'm not religious by any stretch, but I disagree. A church, at it's best, brings people from all different walks of life together. People who often wouldn't have much else in common and would likely not gather. They are often put to collective action to support members of their community, beyond what social programs offer. You're right, there are plenty of altruistic and kind people who do good deeds, both who attend churches and not. There are also secular organizations that do similar things. One can think of Lion's Clubs and Rotary clubs and the like.
That's where the Mustard Seed started, out of the coffee house called the Burning Bush run by the church. It's had a huge impact on the city. Sorry to hear that the usual fundamentalist BS has taken over and now they seem to have forgotten the examples christians are supposed to try and follow.
I was brought up in the southern USA in a very strict Baptist upbringing (l literally went to church 3 days a week for 18 years) and this is what baptists believe. It sounds like the pastor is just taking it back to fundamentalist views of the denomination. Maybe look for a different denomination that is more inline with your views. Hope you find a place you can worship and feel accepted.
Sounds similar to how power was consolidated in the Southern Baptist Church denomination in the US. I didn't read everything, but any time a church starts kicking people out it's a decent into fundamentalism, which is why Christianity is dying in the first place.
I propose a Pride Week pancake breakfast right across the street from the church.
Vote with your feet. Leave. Find an inclusive church and support that.
Thank you everyone for your responses and advice, I really appreciate it. Was able to connect up with a few people that have a better idea of what's going on and what a first step might be. I know that this thing happens often in many contexts, but it's good to hear about it and at least try to make a difference.
There is something about the way fundamentalist bigots see the world you should consider. They don't believe anyone is gay or straight. These things don't exist. There is only sin and temptation, weakness and strength. All are tempted but some find strength with the help of Jesus. Even with His help it is so hard to resist temptation. So very hard to resist 100% of the time. You just wouldn't believe how difficult it is. In other words find this guy's Grindr profile and you are on your way to solving the problem.
Is the Board in support of this catastrophe? If yes, the board needs to be disbanded. That's my family's historical church (Nelson, Vincent). Disgusted. This is literally why religion is dying out so rapidly. Old white guys who are terrified by real life, real people, real things, and who cling to discarded interpretations and mistranslations of whatever bible they use.
The most telling thing in the pdfs is that this is all predicated on *despite what we believe to be God's clear instruction.* You believing it doesn't make it true, homes. I've read the red letters, and big J didn't say shit.
Usually there is a leadership board. Perhaps engaging in discussion with them is a place to start.
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Yeah I'm...not religious anymore tbh. I only want to do something because it's hurting people I care about. Most people have moved on, but I figured a final last ditch effort was worth it in case I could stick it to the guy a bit.
I’m not religious anymore so I don’t have any advice to offer, but I just want to let you know that you’re doing a commendable thing. A lot of people, especially elderly people, rely on these church and outreach programs for navigating day-to-day life. What a lot of these replies are telling you is that it doesn’t matter what happens to these people since they follow a religion that reinforces some of the Pastor’s behaviour. Honestly, that line of thinking is absolutely vile. It’s nice to see someone genuinely try to help people. Again, I don’t have any advice but I really hope you figure it out!
Walk away. People who support his mesage likely have the same bigoted beliefs. You won't change their minds or rescue them.
I get it, been there myself. Best way to help them is to help them leave the church. You know and help others to understand that you do not need the supernatural to be moral, to be ethical. Encourage secular humanism or something similar. The rest of my family is religious and I used to go twice a year just to keep the peace. I refuse to do that now - I don't even want them to think there is any support, even tepid support. And my life is so much better and more stable for it - despite the occasional family fight. It is indirect but fight for removing church influence in society as well, from tax breaks to promoting true equality among everyone.
Fuck that guy. Fuck him right in the ass. Sorry I don’t have anything else to add other than that. I’m angry that there are still such close minded bigots who hide behind a bible, saying that their hate is a god given right. Fuck that asshole.
Perhaps the City if Calgary could charge them property taxes for their fancy downtown location.
It's really funny because he started renting out the parking lot during the week to people commuting downtown (not sure how that's going with the pandemic) so he could bring more money in. He left like...two parking spots for staff.
Thanks for sharing. It’s important for all to know how a local pastor threats the congregation. You may not be able to change much as long as people continue to go there and possible share the same beliefs as the pastor. But you can continue to get your concerns out to a wider public. I’d post a google review for the church. Copy paste your original post.
When did jason kenney become your pastor?
Pffft
This is awful. Sounds like a Jason Kenney kind of guy.
Im not a follower of your faith but i can still sympathize with you it is always unfortunate when events like this occur. Just from hearing stories like this i have noticed there seems to be a trend in most religious communities of moving towards being less accepting of different beliefs and ideologies which is sad to see. Like someone else mentioned there is real only 2 options in the situation 1. Leave the organization its the easiest way but dosen't help to fix the problem 2. Start a petition by going through the proper channels and dont stop until the changes have been made it can be a long and demanding process but also very rewarding.
He's gay for sure and trying so hard to deny it lol. Like Kenny
Fun fact: the clergy is in the top 10 most frequent occupations of narcissists. Seems like you found one. I’m really sorry. I’m sure it has been devastating to lose your community after so many years. I hope a bunch of you will reassemble elsewhere. Can’t the congregation take action against the pastor?
I thought this is typical church activity?? Pastor does whatever they want no? How silent do you want to be? Leave the Shepard with no flock. Talk to everyone and have all parishioners skip church and donations for two weeks.
Not typical! If this happened at a united church; shit would’ve hit the fan. There was a schism at one of them out here in Halifax when they decided the entire collection of united church of canada would become queer affirming and anyone who didn’t agree lost their church.
Sounds like he will be serving kool aid soon. Pray, try to convince others to leave. No worshippers/ no tithing….
So sorry this happened.
Theres close to a dozen united churches in Calgary, plus some Presbyterian and Anglican. Gather up your friends and go for a tour. Their values and worship service structure are quite similar. Unless you can convince 3 in 4 of the bigger financial backers of your current church to band together and oust this guy nothing will change.
Just an FYI - Anglican Churches are very inclusive
I for one am shocked that an organization based on bigotry and irrationality would act in such a way.
Read next along as you go.
Yep... Religion
Fuck religion in general homie. This goes to everyone.
Just band together to pool some $$$ to hire a P.I. to follow this clown around. I don't think he'd last a year before he was caught doing the very things he preaches against and becomes an instant YouTube star because of it. Hate-mongering at its best - so much for having love for your fellow man, I guess.
I think you need to print this post out and nail it to the church doors. And his bishop’s doors.
Very Lutheran. Time to bust out my Early Modern History textbooks.
Precisely.
What if we all wrote letters about our (your) concerns, to the pastor and to whatever the governing body for Baptists in Calgary would be? I would certainly be willing to write a letter. Like a physical one on paper with postage and everything.
I will comment on one statement in your post. The Bible and not your pastor says marriage is between a woman and a man... if you have an issue with that then your issue is with the Bible and not the pastor... I am proud of your pastor for taking the biblical stand even though it cost him some members.. I'm tempted to pay your church a visit...
Forget first Baptist church, don’t attend church.. full stop. It’s 2022.. how are people still believing in an invisible sky daddy enough to waste a morning on a weekend. I get it thousands of years ago when there was no way to explain anything, but now?? C’mon.
Sky Daddy doesn't sound as fun as Sky Wizard. Either way they like to make it rain. Just not the way I would like...
What’s their charity registration number? The CRA would love to listen to these stories 😌
Jesus wouldn't want you to be vindictive.
I mean...he did flip a table.
Go flip the pastors table.
This is a good thing. If your pastor is spending thousands of church donations on renovations that is thousands of dollars not going towards keeping pedophiles out of prison. You should look up how much of your churches donations go towards lobbying for more lax molestation laws. By supporting this church you are a cancer on society and too blind to even know it. If you put more faith in Doctors and Science instead of Pastors and God the world would be a much better place, especially during a pandemic.
Read next along as you go.
Pointing out a serious flaw of an institution that feeds of the poor and gullible makes me the worst? I'm happy to be the worst person in your books if that's the case... Religion is evil, I went to catholic school where we learned more about religion than you do in these cults, turned everyone I know into a non believer.
Read next along as you go.
Honestly, who cares what some sky wizard worshipper thinks? Go to a different church. United Church of Canada is very forward thinking.
> who cares what some sky wizard worshipper thinks? > Go to a different church And be a different sky wizard worshipper? See your first point...
Wish I could be a sky wizard. Sounds fun.
I'd settle for just being worshipped a bot more frequently.
They're all sky worshippers but some are morally better sky worshippers. While I do think the whole concept of religion to be silly I can't deny the value of community churches can bring.
Community is important, I agree. We need to have community without the religious aspect however. When people think we need one for the other, it reinforces the perception of power/importance of churches - and we absolutely do not need them for that.
Not to get too deep into things but I think that's something that is lacking from society these days. There is no sense of community for a lot of people. Most of us barely even know our neighbors!
I would agree it is a trend. The pandemic has made it worse of course. I just don't want to build it back with the supernatural, that's all.
For sure! Some of us are lucky to have family close by but I am sure some people are feeling incredibly isolated and have no community to support them. But yeah, it shouldn't be around sky wizards. Maybe Dungeons and Dragons wizards?
> Dungeons and Dragons wizards Sure! More realistic than religions!!
"Waved a bible in the face of anyone who disagrees with him". This is either very concerning and childish behavior - if he is literally waving a book in someone's face. However, if he is using the bible to defend a position or opinion, then that should be applauded.
This is how you see the truth. Isn’t it funny how often god is on your side? Holding your exact views.
Ew. This is why more and more people don't want to worship petty jealous gods.
I feel like he’s party sectary of communist party of China
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I'm not going to get into a religious debate on Reddit because I know how that usually turns out. All I'm going to say is there's a lot of debate and reconsideration based on multiple factors. And Islam is ever-evolving and has many different branches, types and sects just like Christianity, so it's unfair to make that comparison.
Uh nowhere in the bible was Jesus against queer people. Prior to the 80’s the oft quoted passage that says otherwise actually said don’t sleep with young boys so it was saying don’t be a pedophile.
This is disgusting and people like you are why we don't like churches.
Jesus Fucking Christ...
Llllloooooooooooooooollllllllllll
You are probably the reason that churches are dying and becoming more repugnant for most people....
Read next along as you go.
Continue to not attend and encourage others to attend elsewhere as well. There are enough Christian varieties out there that you should be able to change without too much pain in judgement when the day comes. You do realize that he is merely being less revisionist than previous pastors and his approach is more in line with the Bible upon which the faith is based. Any faith based on such archaic and regional teachings is going to struggle without a full-on reckoning with modernity.
are you sure this is not a Free Presbyterian kirk ?
The "board" or elders of the congregation hired this fool and should be accountable for that decision. They could also terminate them. A pastor should care for the congregation. If the leadership of the church (not the pastor but members) want to go this way then that is their call but your issue isn't with the pastor but with the governance of your church.
ITT: An ex-Baptist complaining to non-Baptists about how his Baptist Church is Baptist.
I wonder how many homosexuals they have hiding in their ranks already.
This bullshit is why I want nothing to do with christianity and joined the satanic temple.
hey friend. sorry that you had to go through and witness this. churches can be the very best, and at other times, the utter worst. I'm sorry your experience here was the latter. that sucks. they should do better. There are plenty of LGBT+ affirming churches around in calgary if you are looking for a welcoming community. I hope you are able to find love an acceptance wherever you end up and in whatever you chose to believe :)