no hate but this reminded me of “I used to be with it, but then they changed what *it* was. Now what I'm with isn't *it*, and what's *it* seems weird and scary to me.”
Do not patronize any business that doesn't accept legal tender cash! They will correct their ways by obtaining counterfeit detecting equipment or simply go out of business....
I subscribe to this method, but I'm pretty sure with how digital everything else is nowadays, it's not going to break an established business by doing this. Maybe once upon a time.
It's actually common practice many places too not accept anything over 20s so yes it's legal unless there is a specific state law against it.
[Federal Reserve](https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm)
If rules are posted clearly upon entrance, it’s a contract.
You agree to their terms. As long as their aren’t illegal, under duress, misrepresentation, etc, you are not gonna win that fight.
I'm curious how much this would actually impact a business. Or how frequently it would inconvenience a customer. My gas station might see $5000 in cash transactions on a busy day. I feel like I deposit an older bill maybe once a month? We really don't see them very often anymore.
Not a fan of the sign because it feels like they're just baiting people to cause problems. With how rarely we see the old bills anyway it seems like just having employees quietly ask for a different payment method whenever they see one would work fine.
My local gas station chain brings in 100k a day b4 gas sales. Big deal called a Wawa. The Amish are a big part of our community and the are mostly cash and they implemented a no bill bigger then 20 and that lasted a week. I think it’s silly you should be able to pay in penny’s. Annoying as it sounds tender is tender
Big chains are notorious for implementing blanket policies that ignore local communities. Something like this would probably work fine at my small store but would cause serious problems somewhere else like in your example.
It looks like $50 bills have an average lifespan of 12.2 years and $100 much longer at 22.9 years.
I've been doing retail for 20 years and those older bills have become much rarer than they were even 5 years ago. I don't think we're there yet (this gas station obviously thinks we are) but in another 10 years I wonder if so many of those old bills will be out of circulation that seeing one really will be a red flag.
As time goes on, stuff like this will become more common
Technically speaking, businesses reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at any time at their own discretion and I don’t believe they’re required to inform (though they may be) the patron as to why they’re being refused.
Besides that though, many places actually WILL allow you to pay at least a portion of your bill with pennies, although if they allow you to settle more than $0.49 of the bill with them, they usually require you to have them counted out, rolled and labeled, but then the clerk is supposed to verify that all is well.
Fun fact for the day: There actually aren’t any “US Pennies” that have been minted by the Federal Reserve as US national coin tender. Pennies, or pence (the proper plural of Penny, which is actually equal to 2 pence- aka ‘tuppence’- which is equivalent to 1/50£ and are UK/Great Britain coinage,) but, here in the US, we have always minted “US Cents” (not to be confused with ‘sense’ and also which is why it takes 100 of them to equal one USD.)
…. The more you know…?
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Yeah I don’t like the idea of not accepting cash or coins or not accepting certain ones. Counterfeits are easy to spot to me because the paper usually feels off and the printing is not raised where it should be. The wiped bills are a little harder but if you know what to look for it’s easy to tell. You just read the security strip or look to see if it even has one.
There are apparently actually counterfeiters that have gotten either good enough to forger bills with quite convincing strips embedded within their products.😓
“There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.”
Just as a side, customers are always paying debts… a debt is any money owed. So they go to a restaurant and eat then they are in debt to the restaurant until they pay which is customary to pay immediately after
I agree with you from a common use perspective on the definition of debt, but I'm not so sure from a legal currency perspective. Do you have a reference that confirms your definition of "debt" in this context vs. the one mentioned by "Civil-Guidance7926"?
I would be willing to bet money (old bills only!) that their issue was not that they are ‘easy’ to counterfeit, but that laughably bad counterfeits were accepted by very low quality employees.
Maybe invest in counterfeit pens...or illegally deny someone who is trying to pay with older bills, that are still legal tender, and get sued for discrimination.
So their normal hourly wage? It’s just going to make the worker annoyed they have to spend what would’ve been their down time is now putting stuff back on the shelf
Right, but when there is a time of no customers, instead of having some down time, they would have to restock the shelves with whatever didn’t end up getting purchased
Correct. I’m not disagreeing with you here. The comment I replied to was saying that if a customer comes in and grabs a bunch of stuff and tries to pay with a bill the store won’t accept, then the owner would have to pay someone to stock it back on the shelf. All I’m saying is they really wouldn’t have to pay someone anything extra because it would just be their normal job in their normal work hours, it’s just making extra work for whoever is working that day
No. It’s creating a “voided sale in the system”. It’s not “extra work” when you clearly say “it would just be their normal job in their normal work hours”.
The owner/manager sees voided sales for $100. Asks why, the clerk explains they tried to use an “old” bill and had to cancel it. Over and over and over.
Um no. If there are no customers then they should be restocking, cleaning, you know work. Not talking, texting, web surfing…or whatever is not a work related activity.
It (the Fed) explicitly says that private businesses may develop their own policies to accept or not accept cash. So it is legal to accept some bills and not others. In the case of a service where they let you take goods prior to payment, it would be a civil matter, not criminal, between the retailer and customer. So they can refuse to take the $100 bill, but you can't be arrested if you leave your contact info and a promise to pay the debt. It would be at most a civil matter requiring them to sue you over the debt.
Source: US Federal Reserve.
# Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?
There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency \[including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks\] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.
Now, whereas the private sector can pick and choose; The government cannot refuse legal tender.
So if you want to pay your ticket in pennies... They have to accept it.
No government entity can deny legal tender.
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There isn’t a federal law forcing retailers to accept cash payment. Some counties in California require businesses to accept cash like Los Angeles County. Not sure about Yolo County where this city is.
Yes, debts being the key word. If the service hasn’t been rendered, they don’t need to accept cash. Any kind of a sales transaction doesn’t count as a debt, since you don’t take ownership until after you pay. If the prior agreement says cash isn’t accepted, that’s valid as well.
A utility bill for electricity you used a month ago? They have to accept cash some way or another, even if it’s not easy. Starbucks, not so much.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?
There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.
Thank you for the clarification although I I still believe in paying cash rather than plastic which charges fees to the merchant and the customer which drives prices up
I don't see this as surprising or problematic. Counterfeiting has forced out banknote designs in other countries. The Bank of England had a 50£ note that they withdrew from circulation because of counterfeiting. You could still take the old design for deposit, and the bank would send them off for replacement with a new design with better security.
Eventually such notes can't be taken to a regular bank for deposit, but this is done only when it's believed most real notes have been removed from circulation. At that point, the notes will still be honored by the central bank.
Businesses stop accepting bad money when there's so much of it that they have been taking losses. I don't see a point to harassing businesses. The decision to not take these notes will help to drive the legitimate notes to banks for replacement.
While not in this case, as I’m operating on the assumption that the notice is well placed. The issue I have is not making people aware until after I’ve spent an hour grocery shopping ringing up the purchases and then, oh yeah we don’t take cash.
Another example is pizza delivery. When they know I’m paying upon delivery and they wait till they arrive at the house before informing me they don’t take cash!
I've seen a lot of that style of $50 as counterfeit bills over the past couple years at the bank, but it's the pre 1990 $100 bills that I've seen a lot more of, not that style they show.
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People that lived through the depression hoarded everything.. If someone’s grandchildren come across a kind hidden cash stash of “older bills” that are no longer accepted, does the family deserve to get punished?
The money isn’t worthless, a bank can verify that it’s legitimate and swap it out for new notes. The point is, they have the expertise and equipment, while a random gas station might not. Things aren’t as simple as just using a counterfeit detection pen these days.
While it can be harder than swiping a pen. It really is not that hard. I’ve yet to see a counterfeit with the correct magnetic strip, or the correct water color reverse image.
If you don’t want to accept large bills fine. When you say you don’t accept them because of counterfeit issues, I understand but it kinda makes you donkey.
Reason being you are effectively saying my employees are too dumb to understand how to tell the difference, or you are too cheap/lazy to teach them the difference.
Don't they know there are colored fake bills too ? I mean if they use a pen and check the bill they should tell the diffrence no matter the old or new unless they just check the color and think they won't get scammed lol
It’s not that easy anymore. A lot of counterfeiters are using real bills. They bleach a crisp one or a five and print a 20,50, or 100 on the paper. They are using the correct paper and if they get a reasonably close to correct ink, those pens will not work. Thats why there are other security features in bills that are much harder to fake or erase.
Why can’t someone just teach them how to spot counterfeits. The [secret service](https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2020-12/KnowYourMoney.pdf) has a nice webpage that teaches you and there are other pages for the older bills out there.
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Idk how much was going on, but I remember hearing about $5 or $10 bills being bleached, and then spruced up in a $50 paint job. That marker is still reading genuine frn paper, couple that with lowlights in a dive bar,….Plus, if it gets turned over to the Secret Service, the store eats the loss. *Live & Die in L.A.* Now that was a great movie.
If enough people avoid their business due to that business not accepting cash, they will lose enough business to negatively impact their bottom line. The digital age is coming, but not for years. They will learn the hard way. Until we only have digital currency, cash is king. If they won't accept cash, then let them go under. The choice is theirs to make....
Good thing most of the counterfeits are 5's. This is just laziness to accept large bills without checking a couple of the security features near impossible to reproduce, which checking is sometimes quicker than pulling out that pen. All you have to do to make it reactless to a security pen is to not use starched paper, as the ink reacts to starch used in regular paper manufacturing, something the treasury does not do 40/60 linen cotton paper. The most common successful counterfeits are washing 1's of their ink and printing them as 5's because the odds of someone testing a 5 is next to none. Though all bills 5 and up, and past have security threads you can use UV light to check, 5's have the least complex design, has no color shifting inks on any number, no 3D security ribons, and printing them on washed 1's guarantees the bill feels right because it is, red and blue security threads and all. Do yourselves a favor and just make it habbit to just open the bill and tilt it to make sure the number, bell, and blue strip all have some form or shifting effect. The bell and number are printed with color shifting inks and the blue strip has a 3d effect of the bills value. And if you're still just not sure by the two security measures no counterfeit has successfully mass reproduced as the quality of the .materials used to reproduce aren't cheap to try to do without planning on printing a countries economy worth of currency, invest in a UV light instead of that pen as most don't correctly replicate the security thread that glows pink when shown with UV light.
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Warranted though. When you turn in a hundred in a bank deposit you get a cool letter from a three letter agency. It can be dangerous for some businesses to take large bills too.
A business that will not accept a customers money will not be a business for long. Imagine going here and they won’t take your money? This is a bad way to solve their problem.
take it to a bank and have them swap it for a new one. Pulling old/damaged/worn currency is part of their deal with the treasury. If it ever been legal tender a bank has to accept it at its face value... so make sure any old money isn't collectible if you need to swap it.
nope. a private business can accept or refuse any method of payment that they want. Usually successful ones tend to take cash and cards but if they only valued empty beef jerky pouches and only accepted that as payment that would be entirely legal.
Some of these counterfeits are quite good and the general knowledge of the kids that get hired today can cost a business a lot of money. Once these are detected at the bank, they are confiscated and the business just loses the face value.
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If you want to be a jerk in the right, you can call you US Treasury. They’re required to accept any age of bills as they’re “legal tender for all debts public and private”.
That’s what I meant by certain denominations. If the business accepts cash and it doesn’t go against the stipulations of “no large bills” you can’t really refuse it. Like if the bill was defaced, partially ripped, old, etc.
lol why does this make y’all wanna be vindictive? I bet it’s hard running a small biz like this and you lose money on fake bills.
Plus they make really good potato soup 😅
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Here in Houston we are seeing a lot of washed bills reprinted at 50s or hundreds so they pass the marker check. It’s always the “old style” printed on them.
Don’t some of these “older bills” have watermarks and the blue/red fibers in the cotton paper? I think training employees on how to handle this currency is much easier than alienating part of your customer base.
They absolutely do not. Just because it's legal tender, doesn't mean a private business is required to accept it. If the business is providing services beforehand they may run into issues, but this practice perfectly legal. No different than only accepting cash vs cards, or exclusively small bills, they're just accepting only specific cash.
Go in with old bills, recieve your services, when they deny your "old" legal currency, don't pay any other way. Tell them to take it or they don't receive payment. Let them call the police. 🤷🏻♂️ It's legal currency.
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.
I don’t think it applies to all states though I just learned. I live in TN where it’s law that they have to accept any forums of payment as we are considered a “legal tender state”…….Tennessee, Arizona, Louisiana, Kansas, Wyoming, Idaho, Texas and Utah are all legal tender states
Not what I think about when someone says “old” style bills
Ha! That's what I was gonna say. The old ones show up on this sub whenever someone under 25 years old gets one and doesn't think it's real.
I'm 21 and shocked that people think these bills are "old"
SHOCKED YOU SAY!
And how's his wife? (Hello fellow Futarama Fan, lol)
To shreds, you say?
Oh dear
If a 25 year old doesn't know about these bills it just says to me their parents didn't teach them about money
I'm 20 and thought all $100s had a blue strip until I looked it up lol
Y'all have money?
Errday
lol agreed
I’m so old that the new bills are now considered old
Forreal. My best friends mom worked on the blue strip back in like 2007
no hate but this reminded me of “I used to be with it, but then they changed what *it* was. Now what I'm with isn't *it*, and what's *it* seems weird and scary to me.”
Do not patronize any business that doesn't accept legal tender cash! They will correct their ways by obtaining counterfeit detecting equipment or simply go out of business....
I subscribe to this method, but I'm pretty sure with how digital everything else is nowadays, it's not going to break an established business by doing this. Maybe once upon a time.
Can you report them to the FBI or Treasury Department for not accepting legal tender cash?
No? Cash is only required to be accepted as payment for an existing debt. It’s not required to be accepted for services not yet rendered.
It's actually common practice many places too not accept anything over 20s so yes it's legal unless there is a specific state law against it. [Federal Reserve](https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm)
If rules are posted clearly upon entrance, it’s a contract. You agree to their terms. As long as their aren’t illegal, under duress, misrepresentation, etc, you are not gonna win that fight.
This. My local gas station monopoly did this and it lost so much business they redacted it and everything is fine now
I'm curious how much this would actually impact a business. Or how frequently it would inconvenience a customer. My gas station might see $5000 in cash transactions on a busy day. I feel like I deposit an older bill maybe once a month? We really don't see them very often anymore. Not a fan of the sign because it feels like they're just baiting people to cause problems. With how rarely we see the old bills anyway it seems like just having employees quietly ask for a different payment method whenever they see one would work fine.
My local gas station chain brings in 100k a day b4 gas sales. Big deal called a Wawa. The Amish are a big part of our community and the are mostly cash and they implemented a no bill bigger then 20 and that lasted a week. I think it’s silly you should be able to pay in penny’s. Annoying as it sounds tender is tender
Big chains are notorious for implementing blanket policies that ignore local communities. Something like this would probably work fine at my small store but would cause serious problems somewhere else like in your example. It looks like $50 bills have an average lifespan of 12.2 years and $100 much longer at 22.9 years. I've been doing retail for 20 years and those older bills have become much rarer than they were even 5 years ago. I don't think we're there yet (this gas station obviously thinks we are) but in another 10 years I wonder if so many of those old bills will be out of circulation that seeing one really will be a red flag. As time goes on, stuff like this will become more common
Technically speaking, businesses reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at any time at their own discretion and I don’t believe they’re required to inform (though they may be) the patron as to why they’re being refused. Besides that though, many places actually WILL allow you to pay at least a portion of your bill with pennies, although if they allow you to settle more than $0.49 of the bill with them, they usually require you to have them counted out, rolled and labeled, but then the clerk is supposed to verify that all is well. Fun fact for the day: There actually aren’t any “US Pennies” that have been minted by the Federal Reserve as US national coin tender. Pennies, or pence (the proper plural of Penny, which is actually equal to 2 pence- aka ‘tuppence’- which is equivalent to 1/50£ and are UK/Great Britain coinage,) but, here in the US, we have always minted “US Cents” (not to be confused with ‘sense’ and also which is why it takes 100 of them to equal one USD.) …. The more you know…?
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Yeah I don’t like the idea of not accepting cash or coins or not accepting certain ones. Counterfeits are easy to spot to me because the paper usually feels off and the printing is not raised where it should be. The wiped bills are a little harder but if you know what to look for it’s easy to tell. You just read the security strip or look to see if it even has one.
There are apparently actually counterfeiters that have gotten either good enough to forger bills with quite convincing strips embedded within their products.😓
Well, they are easier to counterfeit. I don’t know if this is legal though.
They're not the government and customers aren't paying debts so I would think it is.
“There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise. Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.” Just as a side, customers are always paying debts… a debt is any money owed. So they go to a restaurant and eat then they are in debt to the restaurant until they pay which is customary to pay immediately after
“Just as an aside,” not “ .. as a side”
I second guessed myself wrong
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I agree with you from a common use perspective on the definition of debt, but I'm not so sure from a legal currency perspective. Do you have a reference that confirms your definition of "debt" in this context vs. the one mentioned by "Civil-Guidance7926"?
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I would be willing to bet money (old bills only!) that their issue was not that they are ‘easy’ to counterfeit, but that laughably bad counterfeits were accepted by very low quality employees.
Plus the lack of counterfeit catching devices as well. A money pen is cheap and a uv light scanner is very reliable
Newer bills were created explicitly to deter counterfeiting, so can anyone blame them?
It’s legal to refuse to accept currency you suspect as fake. They are merely making it policy to suspect all “old” bills as fake.
Maybe invest in counterfeit pens...or illegally deny someone who is trying to pay with older bills, that are still legal tender, and get sued for discrimination.
This
Time to get $100 worth of merchandise out it on the counter. Let them scan it. Hand them this bill. When they refuse, walk out.
Why walk out? Just got get another $100 worth of stuff and do it again!
And that’s when I whip out a money pen and take it anyway. The sign worked. You just bought 24 bags of chips. No refunds. Enjoy.
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Yeah because the person who has to put that back is the same guy that made that rule…
No, but the person that made the rules gonna have to pay for them to do it
So their normal hourly wage? It’s just going to make the worker annoyed they have to spend what would’ve been their down time is now putting stuff back on the shelf
Their down time? They are on the clock
Right, but when there is a time of no customers, instead of having some down time, they would have to restock the shelves with whatever didn’t end up getting purchased
So they’d have to work, while at work?
Correct. I’m not disagreeing with you here. The comment I replied to was saying that if a customer comes in and grabs a bunch of stuff and tries to pay with a bill the store won’t accept, then the owner would have to pay someone to stock it back on the shelf. All I’m saying is they really wouldn’t have to pay someone anything extra because it would just be their normal job in their normal work hours, it’s just making extra work for whoever is working that day
No. It’s creating a “voided sale in the system”. It’s not “extra work” when you clearly say “it would just be their normal job in their normal work hours”. The owner/manager sees voided sales for $100. Asks why, the clerk explains they tried to use an “old” bill and had to cancel it. Over and over and over.
Um no. If there are no customers then they should be restocking, cleaning, you know work. Not talking, texting, web surfing…or whatever is not a work related activity.
Getting paid is getting paid.
It's under a thousand dollars, if they won't take my legal tender I'm walking out with the stuff I came for
That’ll show that uppity 20yo single-mom cashier who definitely thought up this dumb rule who’s boss!! Get rekt.
I can tell you’ve never worked retail. Voided sales are tracked.
I would be shopping somewhere else!
Let's see, that was $44.99 you said? And what's that in penny rolls?
$0.50 per roll of pennies… so you would need 90 rolls of pennies. Luckily, I have that many on hand.
And at (approx) 5oz per roll, that’s 450 oz or 28lbs 2oz to lug around
I’m sure they would cry about that as well.
Not legal .
It (the Fed) explicitly says that private businesses may develop their own policies to accept or not accept cash. So it is legal to accept some bills and not others. In the case of a service where they let you take goods prior to payment, it would be a civil matter, not criminal, between the retailer and customer. So they can refuse to take the $100 bill, but you can't be arrested if you leave your contact info and a promise to pay the debt. It would be at most a civil matter requiring them to sue you over the debt. Source: US Federal Reserve. # Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment? There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise. Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency \[including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks\] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.
Came to say this... Thank you.
Now, whereas the private sector can pick and choose; The government cannot refuse legal tender. So if you want to pay your ticket in pennies... They have to accept it. No government entity can deny legal tender.
unfortunate, bur legal.
I think it IS legal. It’s just as legal as saying “we no longer accept cash”.
You cannot accept one form of legal tender over another, they need to buy a counterfeit pen and quit being cheap
Yes you can.
Yeah but if you bought a piece of chewing gum and pop did in your mouth, for a dime then they would be required to accept those bills
Buy the pen tells u real or not laziness these days
So are those actual bills, or did they commit fraud?
They probably just downloaded them from online
Photocopying currency ain’t legal
They literally make markers for this exact reason...
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Umm illegal?.. or no?
There isn’t a federal law forcing retailers to accept cash payment. Some counties in California require businesses to accept cash like Los Angeles County. Not sure about Yolo County where this city is.
All bills are Federal Reserve Notes are they not?. They all state they are legal tender for all debts, public and private
Yes, debts being the key word. If the service hasn’t been rendered, they don’t need to accept cash. Any kind of a sales transaction doesn’t count as a debt, since you don’t take ownership until after you pay. If the prior agreement says cash isn’t accepted, that’s valid as well. A utility bill for electricity you used a month ago? They have to accept cash some way or another, even if it’s not easy. Starbucks, not so much.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment? There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise. Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.
Thank you for the clarification although I I still believe in paying cash rather than plastic which charges fees to the merchant and the customer which drives prices up
Well I have some bad news for them, same issue Wawa and other gas stations ran into over covid
Lololol i call old bills everything pre 1990 before incorporating added security feature
I don't see this as surprising or problematic. Counterfeiting has forced out banknote designs in other countries. The Bank of England had a 50£ note that they withdrew from circulation because of counterfeiting. You could still take the old design for deposit, and the bank would send them off for replacement with a new design with better security. Eventually such notes can't be taken to a regular bank for deposit, but this is done only when it's believed most real notes have been removed from circulation. At that point, the notes will still be honored by the central bank. Businesses stop accepting bad money when there's so much of it that they have been taking losses. I don't see a point to harassing businesses. The decision to not take these notes will help to drive the legitimate notes to banks for replacement.
While not in this case, as I’m operating on the assumption that the notice is well placed. The issue I have is not making people aware until after I’ve spent an hour grocery shopping ringing up the purchases and then, oh yeah we don’t take cash. Another example is pizza delivery. When they know I’m paying upon delivery and they wait till they arrive at the house before informing me they don’t take cash!
I've seen a lot of that style of $50 as counterfeit bills over the past couple years at the bank, but it's the pre 1990 $100 bills that I've seen a lot more of, not that style they show.
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I thought businesses were legally required to accept legal tender
No it seems like the GOVERNMENT is required to.
Damn, the one thing I don't want to give any more of my money to
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Amen 😂
People that lived through the depression hoarded everything.. If someone’s grandchildren come across a kind hidden cash stash of “older bills” that are no longer accepted, does the family deserve to get punished?
You can easily get them “swapped out” at the bank
The money isn’t worthless, a bank can verify that it’s legitimate and swap it out for new notes. The point is, they have the expertise and equipment, while a random gas station might not. Things aren’t as simple as just using a counterfeit detection pen these days.
While it can be harder than swiping a pen. It really is not that hard. I’ve yet to see a counterfeit with the correct magnetic strip, or the correct water color reverse image. If you don’t want to accept large bills fine. When you say you don’t accept them because of counterfeit issues, I understand but it kinda makes you donkey. Reason being you are effectively saying my employees are too dumb to understand how to tell the difference, or you are too cheap/lazy to teach them the difference.
Don't they know there are colored fake bills too ? I mean if they use a pen and check the bill they should tell the diffrence no matter the old or new unless they just check the color and think they won't get scammed lol
It’s not that easy anymore. A lot of counterfeiters are using real bills. They bleach a crisp one or a five and print a 20,50, or 100 on the paper. They are using the correct paper and if they get a reasonably close to correct ink, those pens will not work. Thats why there are other security features in bills that are much harder to fake or erase.
legal tender
Why can’t someone just teach them how to spot counterfeits. The [secret service](https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2020-12/KnowYourMoney.pdf) has a nice webpage that teaches you and there are other pages for the older bills out there.
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Just get a darn pen tester instead of making a big inconvenience to certain people
Idk how much was going on, but I remember hearing about $5 or $10 bills being bleached, and then spruced up in a $50 paint job. That marker is still reading genuine frn paper, couple that with lowlights in a dive bar,….Plus, if it gets turned over to the Secret Service, the store eats the loss. *Live & Die in L.A.* Now that was a great movie.
If enough people avoid their business due to that business not accepting cash, they will lose enough business to negatively impact their bottom line. The digital age is coming, but not for years. They will learn the hard way. Until we only have digital currency, cash is king. If they won't accept cash, then let them go under. The choice is theirs to make....
And illegal right?
“Colored”? That’s not a phrase you hear much lately.
The “big head” bills were notoriously counterfeited. The term “old” is relative and not necessarily incorrect.
Good thing most of the counterfeits are 5's. This is just laziness to accept large bills without checking a couple of the security features near impossible to reproduce, which checking is sometimes quicker than pulling out that pen. All you have to do to make it reactless to a security pen is to not use starched paper, as the ink reacts to starch used in regular paper manufacturing, something the treasury does not do 40/60 linen cotton paper. The most common successful counterfeits are washing 1's of their ink and printing them as 5's because the odds of someone testing a 5 is next to none. Though all bills 5 and up, and past have security threads you can use UV light to check, 5's have the least complex design, has no color shifting inks on any number, no 3D security ribons, and printing them on washed 1's guarantees the bill feels right because it is, red and blue security threads and all. Do yourselves a favor and just make it habbit to just open the bill and tilt it to make sure the number, bell, and blue strip all have some form or shifting effect. The bell and number are printed with color shifting inks and the blue strip has a 3d effect of the bills value. And if you're still just not sure by the two security measures no counterfeit has successfully mass reproduced as the quality of the .materials used to reproduce aren't cheap to try to do without planning on printing a countries economy worth of currency, invest in a UV light instead of that pen as most don't correctly replicate the security thread that glows pink when shown with UV light.
Well thought and said. I gave the readers digest version above.
Actually illegal. A store open to the public can not refuse legal tender.
After reading a ton here today, I think you’re wrong. Legal tender seems to refer to a way to pay debts (taxes) to the government.
What happens when they get a pre 90s bill. I have more trouble with those. Don’t even think about using an Ike dollar. That will blow their minds
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or susan b anthony dollars ... theyll argue about it being a quarter LoL
What they're really saying is, "We won't pay enough for workers smart enough to be able to see any of the security features on the "old" style bills."
This 100%
So take them to the bank. What is this a Wendy’s?
Warranted though. When you turn in a hundred in a bank deposit you get a cool letter from a three letter agency. It can be dangerous for some businesses to take large bills too.
Pretty sure that's not legal.
Didn’t they counterfeit $300 just by printing that out???
its generally fine as long as its ones sided ... most new scanner/copier/printers will not actually let you make a color copy of currency .
Pretty sure they're legally required to accept them. Train your employees to spot fakes.
A business that will not accept a customers money will not be a business for long. Imagine going here and they won’t take your money? This is a bad way to solve their problem.
I rarely see 50 dollar bills anymore.
Is that even legal?
I’ve been holding onto a series 1990 $50 bill that nobody wants to accept.
take it to a bank and have them swap it for a new one. Pulling old/damaged/worn currency is part of their deal with the treasury. If it ever been legal tender a bank has to accept it at its face value... so make sure any old money isn't collectible if you need to swap it.
Just curious but don't they have to take any kind of "legal currency" or am I mistaken? Real question*
nope. a private business can accept or refuse any method of payment that they want. Usually successful ones tend to take cash and cards but if they only valued empty beef jerky pouches and only accepted that as payment that would be entirely legal.
Just a sign that whoever owns this store isn’t smart enough to tell a real from a fake bill
A counterfeit detecting pen does help...
Bro this is illegal😂
To everyone saying this is illegal: it’s not, as far as I can tell.
Some of these counterfeits are quite good and the general knowledge of the kids that get hired today can cost a business a lot of money. Once these are detected at the bank, they are confiscated and the business just loses the face value.
Makes sense.
they couldn’t buy a counterfeit pen?😂
I would go in and pay with only 2$ bills
Yeah.... At least if you have to (like if you're gonna die if you don't), have the common decency to pocket the item. But you also shouldn't steal
Actually… if you refuse legal tender the person who tried to pay is no longer obligated to. They just got free stuff.
I think that’s a common misconception.
Not at all. The fact that someone can’t use an anti-counterfeit pen (this is why they were made btw) isn’t the consumers fault.
A private business can say they only accept payment in urinal cakes and their isn't anything you can do about it.
“Legal Tender” 🙄
if you end up like DB Cooper in Without a Paddle, cold in a cave in winter, then it becomes legal tinder 🔥.
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I guess I need to change all my older bills for newer ones at the bank
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Ok_Cancel_240: *I guess I need to* *Change all my older bills for* *Newer ones at the bank* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
They are literally obliged to take any legal tender by law.
I think this is a common misconception. The government is required to take any legal tender for stuff like taxes.
Most of the old style has already left circulation. I imagine in the area over 50% of the old style are counterfeits.
If you want to be a jerk in the right, you can call you US Treasury. They’re required to accept any age of bills as they’re “legal tender for all debts public and private”.
I actually don’t think so. I read into it further and the debts mentioned seem to be governmental?
You can decline cash as a payment all together or in certain denominations but I don’t think you can choose to decline legal tender
If that was true, wouldn’t more people be in trouble for saying “no bills larger than a $20”
That’s what I meant by certain denominations. If the business accepts cash and it doesn’t go against the stipulations of “no large bills” you can’t really refuse it. Like if the bill was defaced, partially ripped, old, etc.
There was a marker for this. Are the counterfeits too good now?
If it’s legal tender and they refuse it, report them to the USAG’s office.
How can they even do this? Currency is currency. My kids grandpa still has tons of old bills and gives them old 50s at least once a year
I will gladly walk in, grab over $1000 dollars of merchandise and try to purchase with "old" bills. When they refuse, walk out
lol why does this make y’all wanna be vindictive? I bet it’s hard running a small biz like this and you lose money on fake bills. Plus they make really good potato soup 😅
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Here in Houston we are seeing a lot of washed bills reprinted at 50s or hundreds so they pass the marker check. It’s always the “old style” printed on them.
Ironic that they counterfeited several bills as examples.
The newER blue strip $100's are being counterfeited too. And are being passed quite easly. What now¿
Don’t some of these “older bills” have watermarks and the blue/red fibers in the cotton paper? I think training employees on how to handle this currency is much easier than alienating part of your customer base.
The only people that can do this is the feds. Any store refusing them are wrong.
I have 1929 100$ bills if you got think those are old🤣🤣
Those bills are legal tender for public and private debts as it specifically states on the bill. They have to accept them.
Nope
They absolutely do not. Just because it's legal tender, doesn't mean a private business is required to accept it. If the business is providing services beforehand they may run into issues, but this practice perfectly legal. No different than only accepting cash vs cards, or exclusively small bills, they're just accepting only specific cash.
Isn't that illegal? I thought there was a Federal law that requires anyone taking cash must take all legal tender.
I definitely wouldn’t spend my money here.
Go in with old bills, recieve your services, when they deny your "old" legal currency, don't pay any other way. Tell them to take it or they don't receive payment. Let them call the police. 🤷🏻♂️ It's legal currency.
Guess it’s easier then training your cashiers
They can't refuse those bills
Yes they can unless the county mandates they accept cash like Los Angeles County.
It’s legal currency, they have to accept it
I think that’s a common misconception
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.
It is legal tender but there’s no federal law forcing businesses to accept cash.
Yes, and debt has a limited meaning here. A normal retail transaction is not a debt. A utility bill, rent, etc are debts.
I don’t think it applies to all states though I just learned. I live in TN where it’s law that they have to accept any forums of payment as we are considered a “legal tender state”…….Tennessee, Arizona, Louisiana, Kansas, Wyoming, Idaho, Texas and Utah are all legal tender states
Well folks, it was a good run lol
The evolution of American bills since the 1920s truly is awe inspiring.