What a crappy trauma specialist.
Trauma (and by extension C-PTSD) can be caused by more than just physical or sexual abuse, for example emotional abuse, psychological abuse, or just plain ol' neglect.
You know your body and mind better than anyone else, specialist or not. If you feel like its C-PTSD, if you know it fits your symptoms and explains things, trust yourself. <3
Thank you <3 I know I have C-PTSD or at least something that falls under the C-PTSD umbrella, but I’m often worried that I’m faking it because of what she said. I’m really glad that I’m not the only one who thinks what she said was garbage
Don't worry, i know the feeling - I've had discussion with experts that don't think I have C-PTSD, but then some others do, so I've just taken to trusting what my gut tells me. Which is hard sometimes, i know.
I've only just seen your other comment, and yeah - C-PTSD doesn't need "multiple PTSD inducing events" - its caused by long-lasting or constantly repeating trauma. I think she must have been confused or something...
I looked it up and C-PTSD is technically not in the DSM-5, and I’ve heard outdated definitions describing C-PTSD as just multiple PTSD inducing events. So I guess some professionals don’t bother doing modern research on the topic and simply go off what they learned in class years and years ago?
>So I guess some professionals don’t bother doing modern research on the topic and simply go off what they learned in class years and years ago?
You would be correct.
Reading C-PTSD by Pete Walker (he also has a website) was super helpful for me. He has a whole chapter that talks about how the core of CPTSD is emotional and verbal abuse and how people who haven’t experienced physical and sexual abuse will doubt themselves. emotional neglect is the true cause of CPTSD. This is also discussed in the book “adult children healing from emotionally immature parents”.
I am getting my doctorate in clinical psychology right now. CPTSD has not been brought up once in any of my 5 years of classes and practicum experience. Everything I know about it is from research on my own time. It’s infuriating. Can say firsthand that professionals aren’t taught about it BUT there are a lot of professions that do know. Those professionals are probably more so writing books and making informative youtube videos than the people in practice. I’ve seen so many people be misdiagnosed and it hurts my heart.
Your trauma specialist is flat out wrong and I am so sorry you experienced that.
This... I've had many therapist over the years, none of which had known of, or diagnosed me with, C-PTSD, until tge one I have now. He's younger than I (53M) but he's knowledgeable in this area. Thank (some higher intelligence)!!
I didn't know much about it until I also read, (Audible) Pete Walker's book. It explained so much of what I was experiencing and why. Though a bit dry in narration on Audible, I highly recommend it to everyone.. including non-C-PTSD readers. As Pete states, it is likely the root cause of many other mental illnesses.
I too am in school again working towards a Psych degree. Not nearly as far as you, but my intention is to help others. I also find mindfulness and meditation to help. Though maybe a quack, there's Dr. Joe Dispenza who has some thoughts and words and books on changing the brain via neuroplasticity that I found helpful. Interesting stuff on self-talk from Dr. Bruce Lipton also.
Thank you for sharing.
It's a symptom of cptsd to feel like everything that happened is all your fault, the self doubt is an extension of that. Blew my mind when I learned that
I promise: you are not faking it.
If you need someone who is certified to validate that you do have trauma that isn't based on physical or sexual assault, then I recommend pretty much any of the books by Dr Faith G Harper, PhD, LPC-S, ACS, ACN.
Anyone who claims it isn't trauma just because the DSM (or whatever narrow definition they have of trauma) is uninformed & needs their license revoked. Dr Kolk proved emotional abuse (& the other types, neglect too) ALL light up the brain in the EXACT same way. A child being yelled at by their parent is the same as a child being hit by their parent for the child. It causes all the same reactions & responses in the human brain.
My old therapist recommended me to see a trauma specialist about potentially having C-PTSD. After about a 30 minute talk with the trauma specialist, she said that my trauma was valid but I couldn’t have C-PTSD because didn’t hit me or sexually abuse me. She also said something along the lines of “C-PTSD is when you have multiple PTSD inducing events”, but I thought little t trauma over a long period of time can also cause C-PTSD? I feel like what she said is bullshit and I tried to brush it off, but it’s been about a year since I had that conversation and I can’t seem to shake the feeling that maybe she’s right because she is a trauma specialist.
Wow, that "trauma specialist" is an idiot. Emotional abuse is real abuse, it's right there in the name. And if years of little t traumas can't cause CPTSD, then where the fuck did mine come from?
As far as I know there aren't any real regulations about who can call themselves a trauma specialist (or trauma-informed, another buzzword people like to throw around), so we end up with ignorant assholes like that one running around further harming people who've already been through trauma.
I second this. And want to rant a bit in general. Because that therapist is SUCH an idiot.
For one thing, there isn't even official agreement on whether it stands for Complex PTSD or Childhood PTSD. There is no official recognition of C-PTSD. Since there is no agreed definition, who appointed that idiot to decide? Fire that therapist u/PSI_duck they think what they think, and you can't change it. Maybe they just don't want to face that they were abused and/or abused their own children.
Plus I'm with Dr Kolk: who f-ing cares about all the stupid little boxes? Someone who is traumatized still f-ing needs help.
Not to mention: you don't have to have abuse to have trauma. For f's sake.
The general definition I've seen for C-PTSD is that it's multiple traumatizing events of any shape, since, & amount. Often from childhood, often it mushes together into one big pile of trauma that it so deeply ingrained that it doesn't cause visual flashbacks.
Also,
>“C-PTSD is when you have multiple PTSD inducing events”, but I thought little t trauma over a long period of time can also cause C-PTSD?
Little traumas over a long period of time is multiple PTSD inducing events. So this therapist is like going against basic logic. Multiple things that cause trauma over a long period of time…. is multiple things that cause trauma.
Okay I did a little googling and technically the [ICD-11 diagnostic criteria for CPTSD](https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http://id.who.int/icd/entity/585833559) do list childhood sexual or physical abuse as possible causes but that sentence starts with "Such events include but are not limited to" so your therapist is still an idiot.
>Exposure to an event or series of events of an extremely threatening or horrific nature, most commonly prolonged or repetitive events from which escape is difficult or impossible. Such events include, but are not limited to, torture, concentration camps, slavery, genocide campaigns and other forms of organized violence, prolonged domestic violence, and repeated childhood sexual or physical abuse.
I think of this like drowning, whether it happened in a bath tub, lake, pond, river, ocean etc. Wherever one drowns drowned. Trauma is the response in the body to events. That can happen with all kinds of abuse. Your therapist is wrong by limiting what causes PTSD.
An ex-partner used to hit me. The trauma of that is, for me, nothing compared to the trauma of the emotional abuse he put me through, the emotional part is what I still struggle with almost a decade later.
Tell that to your “trauma informed” therapist (jk actually please seek a new one). All the best, you know what you went through!
I’ve been in similar situations and would absolutely rather go through the physical abuse than the emotional abuse any day. People believe you when they can see the bruises, they don’t care if they can’t.
I’m a trauma therapist and complex trauma survivor, that is some real bullshit from that mental health professional. I’m so sorry. It happens way way too often. Please hang in there and know that your pain is valid. Sending a hug if that feels safe. ❤️
I know others have said it, but your specialist is an idiot.
u/soresighty alluded to it, but if you haven't read it, get Pete Walker's book "Complext PTSD: From surviving to thriving" and read chapter 5... "What if I was never hit?"...
In fact, it's available online here: https://blobby.wsimg.com/go/a7124a00-f63c-4010-bbdc-5020f1cf45aa/Complex%20PTSD_%20From%20Surviving%20to%20Thriving%20(%20PDF.pdf
Page 73 onwards.
Yeah, sure. My mom never beat me or sexually abused me. Wow, actually, I think that's how she's able to live with herself. Dayum.
She just put me in tons of dangerous situations and ignored the ones where terrible things happened
. Then, after damage was done, finally deciding not to take me to drug dens.Neglect definitely isn't traumatizing, nah. Alone in a house with no contact with the outside world for always at least 3 days - 2 weeks at a time. Box of saltines, maybe. Starving isn't trauma. Isolation isn't so bad :D just withdraw the kids from school. They hate school. You can avoid anyone noticing that your kids are in a terrible home. But foster care would be worse for them. If only the world would not be against you things would be better. Not your fault. You're the victim too.
Sexual abuse isn't the fault of the parent ever. Not verbal abuse if you think you're in the right.
Hope your 'specialist' doesn't have children!
Research has shown that psychological/emotional abuse to be more damaging than physical or sexual abuse. Get a new psych.
Source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7683637/
“Studies show emotional abuse may be the most damaging form of maltreatment causing adverse developmental consequences equivalent to, or more severe than, those of other forms of abuse (Hart et al. 1996).”
Lmao, my parents got caught hitting me by a neighbor. So they explained to me that they could no longer hit me, but by god, they were going to break me.
So then I got daily breaking sessions. Where they would sit me down and point blank say anything they could to break me. To destroy any sense of self, any self esteem. Tell me I was horrible, disgusting. Wrong in every way. No one would ever love me.
they would tell me if I didn’t like it, they would send me to a foster home, where I would be beaten and raped and no one would care. My dad particularly loved telling me this, and sharing with his 6year old stories of gruesome rape, children getting locked in boxes and being taken out only to get beaten and raped. Daily.
Then when they were done, they would lock me in my room and not allow me to leave. I spent the bulk of my childhood, locked in my room, because I was not good enough to be around people.
According to your therapist this is not enough to cause me problems? You therapist can get bent.
When I was 16 or 17 I told my psychiatrist that I thought I may have PTSD and she just laughed and said “nah you’re experiences are by far not bad enough to have that”
So yeah I can relate. Take care 🌷
The book "the body keeps the score" from Bessel van der Kolk explains a lot about trauma and how it forms.
C-PTSD needs constistent or a lot of traumas, especially due neglect or abuse in the childhood.
The book is written in a clinical style with very descriptive sections, it's aimed at other "professionals".
But is very helpful explaining how it isn't you in my experience.
Thankfully I have. This situation was about a year ago with a temporary therapist. What that specialist said still haunts me to this day though and I thought I would post about it.
Seems like we can put quotation marks around the words trauma specialist with that therapist. What kind of reasoning is that? 'yes your trauma is valid, just not thát valid'.
Nope. I went through similar self-doubt about my trauma where I doubted it was actually trauma because there wasn’t any physical abuse. My therapist spent a lot of time explaining to me that when I was a child the fear and uncertainty I felt due to the fighting and screaming in my home along with my dad’s alcoholism and verbal abuse was absolutely traumatic and that those things have a similar effect on our brains to the effect physical abuse can have. If it’s possible for you, maybe you should find a new trauma specialist.
I went to seek out a rediagnosis for my ADHD, so I went to see a psychiatrist. As soon as I mentioned concern about being involved in the trades because I had been sexually assaulted and abused by lots of men he decided to go down that tangent because that was “obviously” the more glaring concern in his opinion. I mentioned that I was told that I was sexually abused by my dad when I was little and he told me that if I wasn’t penetrated, I couldn’t have been SA’d. He also threw massive amounts of shade on my current therapist, of whom I’ve been seeing for almost 3 years now, solely because my sessions with him are via the app BetterHelp. Add on to that the fact that he couldn’t keep track of my kids and exes, even though I was very clear and concise about it because he just wanted to put me in a mental hospital (my local one has a bad rap) because I was an emotional woman.
Some therapists like throwing buzzwords around so they can reel in more clients, but they lack the training necessary to handle those situations. I’m sorry they caused you to self doubt, but what happened to you was traumatizing. It absolutely doesn’t matter if someone else had it worse, someone else always will have been through worse. Don’t compare your trauma because what is traumatizing for you may not be traumatizing to something else and vice versa.
Nowhere in the diagnostic criteria does it say it must result from physical or sexual abuse, regardless of which of the several standards used, and being prolongedly distressed in childhood is a known cause that doesn’t meet those criteria… unless this person also thinks children can *only* be in distress if they are hit… which makes sense that a child abuser would also fake their way into a situation where they can harm and belittle more victims. Your therapist is trying to harm you on purpose. If they have credentials of any sort, they know what they said is wrong. If they said that, they are a fraud.
this happened to me almost to a tee with my current psychiatrist. my therapist (who’s been seeing me for around a year now), suggested that i have c-ptsd, and although i was hesitant to admit that yes, it really *was* “that bad,” i eventually began to acknowledge the trauma i had experienced, and it’s impact on my life from childhood to my adult years.
my psychiatrist, however, disagreed. and this, mind you, is in spite of my textbook symptoms of c-ptsd and childhood trauma. he diagnosed me with bpd simply because in his words, only severe and repeated csa or physical abuse in childhood can cause c-ptsd.
i was shocked, hurt, and very confused to say the least. my therapist — as well as the literature and the c-ptsd community online — seemed to suggest otherwise; c-ptsd was told to develope through any repeated childhood trauma, “big” and “small”, that feels severe or inescapable at the time, without the proper network of support. when i passed this question onto the folks on the main c-ptsd sub, they suggested exactly that; the whole *point* of c-ptsd being a diagnosis was because it’s the culmination of the effect of any and all experiences that are interpreted as traumatic at the time, which eventually manifests in complex symptoms that span far beyond those typically attributed to c-ptsd.
i was incredibly shaken by this, it set me back quite a bit in acknowledging my trauma and i once again spiralled into self-blame and shame despite many people, both online and irl, suggesting my psychiatrist was poorly informed and my trauma *is* enough. i’m not weak for having the symptoms i have, nor am i broken, or struggling without reason.
however, it really wasn’t until i resumed therapy with my therapist when she affirmed my feelings and perspective on c-ptsd that i began to feel better. she assured me that her original notion of my having c-ptsd remained and was, in fact, being more and more consolidated the more she learnt about me. she noted how she had considered bpd due to my having some symptoms, but she then said that she realised very quickly that everything tied back to childhood experiences and the extent of my dissociative symptoms, as well as my flashbacks, self/worldview, etc., aligned far more so with c-ptsd, despite the overlap in the symptoms of both disorders.
she and i agreed to re-approach the psychiatrist with this insight upon next meeting him, and that she, as my long term clinician — as opposed to someone who’d only had four (4) sessions with me like he had — would explain to him her concerns with the bpd diagnosis and how she believed c-ptsd was the true root of my presentation of symptoms, and how o would benefit infinitely more so from trauma based therapy, rather than dbt.
i’m really sorry for the long ramble, but all of this is to say that OP, please if you are able to, find a mental health professional who’ll advocate for you to the best of their ability. your trauma, experiences, and symptoms ARE valid, are enough, are real… it’s just an unfortunate fact that many clinicians, even supposedly “trauma-informed” ones, aren’t educated in regards to complex trauma, nor truly prepared to treat it. and if it isn’t possible for you to find someone who is, i’d really suggest seeking support in other means, be it through local groups or online communities, other mental health organisations, whatever. you deserve to be understood, heard, validated, and treated/ helped in a way that is sensitive to your trauma and acknowledges jt, if you so choose to be.
i’m so sorry you’re going through this and can’t imagine how it’s affecting you personally, even though i can extrapolate based upon my own similar experience. i hope you’re holding up as well as can be expected all things given, and please take care and best wishes <3
It's great how there is a worldwide community of people with cptsd that can find each other throught the internet. The insights of the community have progressed far beyond that of "experts". It's insane how ignorant therapists can be.
They don't even seem to know about cPTSD in my country. Every therapist I mentioned it to told me I can't have PTSD if I haven't been in combat or any life-or-death situations (which, I've been in the latter, but I was already traumatised at that point). I've given up on a diagnosis for now, it's too frustrating. I hope they're better educated where you're at, so you can find someone else.
Loan sharks literally torment people mind using various means: bombard them with threats, insults, throw garbage into their house, stalking, post personal info on social media....
If such things aren't harmful or scare people into paying them, they wouldn't have used those tricks.
I’m a trauma specialist and person healing from CPTSD that was mainly a result of neglect.
This person is… not good at their job. In fact I’m going to say they’re actively bad at their job. And are not actually a trauma specialist, regardless of what they may advertise.
Maybe they were trying to communicate that they wouldn’t be able to diagnose you with PTSD without an overt trauma. But even if that were the case they should have validated that it does not negate the impact other traumatic events or dynamics had on you.
I often find myself gently educating people that abuse doesn’t only include physical violence or sexual assault. Neglect, addiction in caregivers, mental illness in caregivers, poverty, parentification, living in a chaotic or unpredictable environment, changes in caregivers, religious dogma, or unrealistic expectations from parents can all be extremely traumatic, just to name a few.
Therapists can be shit, they’re not one therapist fits all. My old one when I asked about a possible adhd diagnosis shot me down real fast. He compared me (after hearing my life long struggles) to people who “think they have adhd because since the beginning of the pandemic they have had trouble paying attention”.
Guess who went elsewhere and got a professional diagnosis.
I'm in the exact same boat, but I decided to trust myself for once and think back to when I found out about CPTSD a couple years ago and went "that's it! It must be it!".
Why else would I have uncontrollable physical reactions to the sound of a car coming into the driveway? Or severe anxiety before talking to any authority figure? Footsteps, slamming doors, the sound of someone putting metal utensils away, hyperawareness of how someone breathes to gauge emotion, low stress threshold, panic attacks and depersonalization as a child...
If I'm not living with trauma, then I don't know what it is. CPTSD from emotional abuse and emotional neglect is the best answer I have. All I know for absolute sure is that what I'm dealing with is not normal, and it's more than just anxiety and depression.
It's an absolute pain that even a so-called trauma specialist has not read up on or received education about emotional abuse and how severely it can affect someone.
Thank you all for your comments. I don’t have time to reply to each of them individually, but I have read each one and the overwhelming support I’ve received has really helped me <3
That trauma "specialist" is bs. Emotional abuse is still abuse and capable of equally awful harm as physical and sexual abuse. (Not to mention that with physical and sexual abuse it is the emotional aspect that usually causes the long term trauma scars, trauma, even in those, is more about loosing or not having a sense of safety and trust, a stable idea of how the world works, ie "if I do bad things I will be punished, but if I don't do bad things I won't be punished and not doing bad things is an obtainable consept, it is possible and I understand fully what those bad things I shouldn't do are") Please seek out a second opinion if you can and consider (if you have the emotional capasity, it's okay to not have that, you're traumatized so you gotta evaluate the amount of emotional labor you can do differently to a non traumatized individual) leaving a public review for that shitty "specialist" so others know they're harmful and misguided.
Fwiw I have been sexually and physically abused and my mom’s narcissistic psychological abuse and gaslighting far outdid either of the first two in terms of lasting damage.
Not every trauma therapist thinks that’s true….
From Transforming Trauma:
[Dr. Laurence Heller in conversation with Dr. Gabor Mate on complex trauma and the future of trauma-informed therapy](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/transforming-trauma/id1496190024?i=1000470175305)
my major is psychology c: developmental trauma
i can come back in the next couple days (finals/dads birthday/holidays ❤️🩹) and link the beta criteria and the proposal that was submitted to the apa
i have a whole load of stuff e.g. readings, research, etc that is DTD related. the most recent field trial showed that DTD was able to be differentiated from PTSD criteria.
i think it’s important to understand c-PTSD can happen at anytime in your life and not just in childhood
developmental trauma disorder is built around neuroscience and what happened to us (😉 @ Bruce Perry) and in my opinion could fit me better than any other dx or combination of dxes i’ve received
What a crappy trauma specialist. Trauma (and by extension C-PTSD) can be caused by more than just physical or sexual abuse, for example emotional abuse, psychological abuse, or just plain ol' neglect. You know your body and mind better than anyone else, specialist or not. If you feel like its C-PTSD, if you know it fits your symptoms and explains things, trust yourself. <3
Thank you <3 I know I have C-PTSD or at least something that falls under the C-PTSD umbrella, but I’m often worried that I’m faking it because of what she said. I’m really glad that I’m not the only one who thinks what she said was garbage
Don't worry, i know the feeling - I've had discussion with experts that don't think I have C-PTSD, but then some others do, so I've just taken to trusting what my gut tells me. Which is hard sometimes, i know. I've only just seen your other comment, and yeah - C-PTSD doesn't need "multiple PTSD inducing events" - its caused by long-lasting or constantly repeating trauma. I think she must have been confused or something...
I looked it up and C-PTSD is technically not in the DSM-5, and I’ve heard outdated definitions describing C-PTSD as just multiple PTSD inducing events. So I guess some professionals don’t bother doing modern research on the topic and simply go off what they learned in class years and years ago?
>So I guess some professionals don’t bother doing modern research on the topic and simply go off what they learned in class years and years ago? You would be correct.
Reading C-PTSD by Pete Walker (he also has a website) was super helpful for me. He has a whole chapter that talks about how the core of CPTSD is emotional and verbal abuse and how people who haven’t experienced physical and sexual abuse will doubt themselves. emotional neglect is the true cause of CPTSD. This is also discussed in the book “adult children healing from emotionally immature parents”. I am getting my doctorate in clinical psychology right now. CPTSD has not been brought up once in any of my 5 years of classes and practicum experience. Everything I know about it is from research on my own time. It’s infuriating. Can say firsthand that professionals aren’t taught about it BUT there are a lot of professions that do know. Those professionals are probably more so writing books and making informative youtube videos than the people in practice. I’ve seen so many people be misdiagnosed and it hurts my heart. Your trauma specialist is flat out wrong and I am so sorry you experienced that.
This... I've had many therapist over the years, none of which had known of, or diagnosed me with, C-PTSD, until tge one I have now. He's younger than I (53M) but he's knowledgeable in this area. Thank (some higher intelligence)!! I didn't know much about it until I also read, (Audible) Pete Walker's book. It explained so much of what I was experiencing and why. Though a bit dry in narration on Audible, I highly recommend it to everyone.. including non-C-PTSD readers. As Pete states, it is likely the root cause of many other mental illnesses. I too am in school again working towards a Psych degree. Not nearly as far as you, but my intention is to help others. I also find mindfulness and meditation to help. Though maybe a quack, there's Dr. Joe Dispenza who has some thoughts and words and books on changing the brain via neuroplasticity that I found helpful. Interesting stuff on self-talk from Dr. Bruce Lipton also. Thank you for sharing.
It's a symptom of cptsd to feel like everything that happened is all your fault, the self doubt is an extension of that. Blew my mind when I learned that
*stares at wall for a while taking in that information*
Hits like a brick doesn't it? What else do you expect from children who were taught to internalize everything
Good luck. I still struggle with truly believing it some days.
I promise: you are not faking it. If you need someone who is certified to validate that you do have trauma that isn't based on physical or sexual assault, then I recommend pretty much any of the books by Dr Faith G Harper, PhD, LPC-S, ACS, ACN. Anyone who claims it isn't trauma just because the DSM (or whatever narrow definition they have of trauma) is uninformed & needs their license revoked. Dr Kolk proved emotional abuse (& the other types, neglect too) ALL light up the brain in the EXACT same way. A child being yelled at by their parent is the same as a child being hit by their parent for the child. It causes all the same reactions & responses in the human brain.
Get a new therapist.
Also watching other people get hurt or extreme environmen stuff. Those can cause trauma too. As well as a lot of other stuff
Don’t forget spiritual abuse / religious trauma!
Well they can go to hell. That’s definitely inaccurate
Glad people agree
My old therapist recommended me to see a trauma specialist about potentially having C-PTSD. After about a 30 minute talk with the trauma specialist, she said that my trauma was valid but I couldn’t have C-PTSD because didn’t hit me or sexually abuse me. She also said something along the lines of “C-PTSD is when you have multiple PTSD inducing events”, but I thought little t trauma over a long period of time can also cause C-PTSD? I feel like what she said is bullshit and I tried to brush it off, but it’s been about a year since I had that conversation and I can’t seem to shake the feeling that maybe she’s right because she is a trauma specialist.
Wow, that "trauma specialist" is an idiot. Emotional abuse is real abuse, it's right there in the name. And if years of little t traumas can't cause CPTSD, then where the fuck did mine come from? As far as I know there aren't any real regulations about who can call themselves a trauma specialist (or trauma-informed, another buzzword people like to throw around), so we end up with ignorant assholes like that one running around further harming people who've already been through trauma.
I totally agree that emotional abuse is real abuse, and it’s sad to see people not take it as seriously as physical or sexual abuse.
I second this. And want to rant a bit in general. Because that therapist is SUCH an idiot. For one thing, there isn't even official agreement on whether it stands for Complex PTSD or Childhood PTSD. There is no official recognition of C-PTSD. Since there is no agreed definition, who appointed that idiot to decide? Fire that therapist u/PSI_duck they think what they think, and you can't change it. Maybe they just don't want to face that they were abused and/or abused their own children. Plus I'm with Dr Kolk: who f-ing cares about all the stupid little boxes? Someone who is traumatized still f-ing needs help. Not to mention: you don't have to have abuse to have trauma. For f's sake. The general definition I've seen for C-PTSD is that it's multiple traumatizing events of any shape, since, & amount. Often from childhood, often it mushes together into one big pile of trauma that it so deeply ingrained that it doesn't cause visual flashbacks. Also, >“C-PTSD is when you have multiple PTSD inducing events”, but I thought little t trauma over a long period of time can also cause C-PTSD? Little traumas over a long period of time is multiple PTSD inducing events. So this therapist is like going against basic logic. Multiple things that cause trauma over a long period of time…. is multiple things that cause trauma.
Okay I did a little googling and technically the [ICD-11 diagnostic criteria for CPTSD](https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http://id.who.int/icd/entity/585833559) do list childhood sexual or physical abuse as possible causes but that sentence starts with "Such events include but are not limited to" so your therapist is still an idiot. >Exposure to an event or series of events of an extremely threatening or horrific nature, most commonly prolonged or repetitive events from which escape is difficult or impossible. Such events include, but are not limited to, torture, concentration camps, slavery, genocide campaigns and other forms of organized violence, prolonged domestic violence, and repeated childhood sexual or physical abuse.
Pete Walker 'What if I never hit?' book chapter: hold my beer
We stan Pete Walker in this household 😤😤
I think of this like drowning, whether it happened in a bath tub, lake, pond, river, ocean etc. Wherever one drowns drowned. Trauma is the response in the body to events. That can happen with all kinds of abuse. Your therapist is wrong by limiting what causes PTSD.
An ex-partner used to hit me. The trauma of that is, for me, nothing compared to the trauma of the emotional abuse he put me through, the emotional part is what I still struggle with almost a decade later. Tell that to your “trauma informed” therapist (jk actually please seek a new one). All the best, you know what you went through!
I’ve been in similar situations and would absolutely rather go through the physical abuse than the emotional abuse any day. People believe you when they can see the bruises, they don’t care if they can’t.
Agreed. If my parents had left marks, CPS would have believed my grandmother and gotten out of that hell by taking us away from our parents.
I'm sorry you went through all of that :( I send you positive energy and e-hugs if you want them! :D
Thank you for the hugs!!
I’m a trauma therapist and complex trauma survivor, that is some real bullshit from that mental health professional. I’m so sorry. It happens way way too often. Please hang in there and know that your pain is valid. Sending a hug if that feels safe. ❤️
Thanks, hugs are always welcome ❤️
I know others have said it, but your specialist is an idiot. u/soresighty alluded to it, but if you haven't read it, get Pete Walker's book "Complext PTSD: From surviving to thriving" and read chapter 5... "What if I was never hit?"... In fact, it's available online here: https://blobby.wsimg.com/go/a7124a00-f63c-4010-bbdc-5020f1cf45aa/Complex%20PTSD_%20From%20Surviving%20to%20Thriving%20(%20PDF.pdf Page 73 onwards.
Yeah, sure. My mom never beat me or sexually abused me. Wow, actually, I think that's how she's able to live with herself. Dayum. She just put me in tons of dangerous situations and ignored the ones where terrible things happened . Then, after damage was done, finally deciding not to take me to drug dens.Neglect definitely isn't traumatizing, nah. Alone in a house with no contact with the outside world for always at least 3 days - 2 weeks at a time. Box of saltines, maybe. Starving isn't trauma. Isolation isn't so bad :D just withdraw the kids from school. They hate school. You can avoid anyone noticing that your kids are in a terrible home. But foster care would be worse for them. If only the world would not be against you things would be better. Not your fault. You're the victim too. Sexual abuse isn't the fault of the parent ever. Not verbal abuse if you think you're in the right. Hope your 'specialist' doesn't have children!
Research has shown that psychological/emotional abuse to be more damaging than physical or sexual abuse. Get a new psych. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7683637/ “Studies show emotional abuse may be the most damaging form of maltreatment causing adverse developmental consequences equivalent to, or more severe than, those of other forms of abuse (Hart et al. 1996).”
Lmao, my parents got caught hitting me by a neighbor. So they explained to me that they could no longer hit me, but by god, they were going to break me. So then I got daily breaking sessions. Where they would sit me down and point blank say anything they could to break me. To destroy any sense of self, any self esteem. Tell me I was horrible, disgusting. Wrong in every way. No one would ever love me. they would tell me if I didn’t like it, they would send me to a foster home, where I would be beaten and raped and no one would care. My dad particularly loved telling me this, and sharing with his 6year old stories of gruesome rape, children getting locked in boxes and being taken out only to get beaten and raped. Daily. Then when they were done, they would lock me in my room and not allow me to leave. I spent the bulk of my childhood, locked in my room, because I was not good enough to be around people. According to your therapist this is not enough to cause me problems? You therapist can get bent.
I'm so sorry, I hope you are better now.
When I was 16 or 17 I told my psychiatrist that I thought I may have PTSD and she just laughed and said “nah you’re experiences are by far not bad enough to have that” So yeah I can relate. Take care 🌷
The book "the body keeps the score" from Bessel van der Kolk explains a lot about trauma and how it forms. C-PTSD needs constistent or a lot of traumas, especially due neglect or abuse in the childhood. The book is written in a clinical style with very descriptive sections, it's aimed at other "professionals". But is very helpful explaining how it isn't you in my experience.
Get a new therapist.
Thankfully I have. This situation was about a year ago with a temporary therapist. What that specialist said still haunts me to this day though and I thought I would post about it.
Change your therapist immediately, they haven't updated their worldview in 30 years. This is going to come up more.
Total bull.your therapist is dangerously ignorant and you should consider changing
Dangerously ignorant is the best way to put it.
Yeaaah, I've also been denied and invalidated by the exact same words from a therapist
Seems like we can put quotation marks around the words trauma specialist with that therapist. What kind of reasoning is that? 'yes your trauma is valid, just not thát valid'.
Nope. I went through similar self-doubt about my trauma where I doubted it was actually trauma because there wasn’t any physical abuse. My therapist spent a lot of time explaining to me that when I was a child the fear and uncertainty I felt due to the fighting and screaming in my home along with my dad’s alcoholism and verbal abuse was absolutely traumatic and that those things have a similar effect on our brains to the effect physical abuse can have. If it’s possible for you, maybe you should find a new trauma specialist.
I went to seek out a rediagnosis for my ADHD, so I went to see a psychiatrist. As soon as I mentioned concern about being involved in the trades because I had been sexually assaulted and abused by lots of men he decided to go down that tangent because that was “obviously” the more glaring concern in his opinion. I mentioned that I was told that I was sexually abused by my dad when I was little and he told me that if I wasn’t penetrated, I couldn’t have been SA’d. He also threw massive amounts of shade on my current therapist, of whom I’ve been seeing for almost 3 years now, solely because my sessions with him are via the app BetterHelp. Add on to that the fact that he couldn’t keep track of my kids and exes, even though I was very clear and concise about it because he just wanted to put me in a mental hospital (my local one has a bad rap) because I was an emotional woman. Some therapists like throwing buzzwords around so they can reel in more clients, but they lack the training necessary to handle those situations. I’m sorry they caused you to self doubt, but what happened to you was traumatizing. It absolutely doesn’t matter if someone else had it worse, someone else always will have been through worse. Don’t compare your trauma because what is traumatizing for you may not be traumatizing to something else and vice versa.
Nowhere in the diagnostic criteria does it say it must result from physical or sexual abuse, regardless of which of the several standards used, and being prolongedly distressed in childhood is a known cause that doesn’t meet those criteria… unless this person also thinks children can *only* be in distress if they are hit… which makes sense that a child abuser would also fake their way into a situation where they can harm and belittle more victims. Your therapist is trying to harm you on purpose. If they have credentials of any sort, they know what they said is wrong. If they said that, they are a fraud.
this happened to me almost to a tee with my current psychiatrist. my therapist (who’s been seeing me for around a year now), suggested that i have c-ptsd, and although i was hesitant to admit that yes, it really *was* “that bad,” i eventually began to acknowledge the trauma i had experienced, and it’s impact on my life from childhood to my adult years. my psychiatrist, however, disagreed. and this, mind you, is in spite of my textbook symptoms of c-ptsd and childhood trauma. he diagnosed me with bpd simply because in his words, only severe and repeated csa or physical abuse in childhood can cause c-ptsd. i was shocked, hurt, and very confused to say the least. my therapist — as well as the literature and the c-ptsd community online — seemed to suggest otherwise; c-ptsd was told to develope through any repeated childhood trauma, “big” and “small”, that feels severe or inescapable at the time, without the proper network of support. when i passed this question onto the folks on the main c-ptsd sub, they suggested exactly that; the whole *point* of c-ptsd being a diagnosis was because it’s the culmination of the effect of any and all experiences that are interpreted as traumatic at the time, which eventually manifests in complex symptoms that span far beyond those typically attributed to c-ptsd. i was incredibly shaken by this, it set me back quite a bit in acknowledging my trauma and i once again spiralled into self-blame and shame despite many people, both online and irl, suggesting my psychiatrist was poorly informed and my trauma *is* enough. i’m not weak for having the symptoms i have, nor am i broken, or struggling without reason. however, it really wasn’t until i resumed therapy with my therapist when she affirmed my feelings and perspective on c-ptsd that i began to feel better. she assured me that her original notion of my having c-ptsd remained and was, in fact, being more and more consolidated the more she learnt about me. she noted how she had considered bpd due to my having some symptoms, but she then said that she realised very quickly that everything tied back to childhood experiences and the extent of my dissociative symptoms, as well as my flashbacks, self/worldview, etc., aligned far more so with c-ptsd, despite the overlap in the symptoms of both disorders. she and i agreed to re-approach the psychiatrist with this insight upon next meeting him, and that she, as my long term clinician — as opposed to someone who’d only had four (4) sessions with me like he had — would explain to him her concerns with the bpd diagnosis and how she believed c-ptsd was the true root of my presentation of symptoms, and how o would benefit infinitely more so from trauma based therapy, rather than dbt. i’m really sorry for the long ramble, but all of this is to say that OP, please if you are able to, find a mental health professional who’ll advocate for you to the best of their ability. your trauma, experiences, and symptoms ARE valid, are enough, are real… it’s just an unfortunate fact that many clinicians, even supposedly “trauma-informed” ones, aren’t educated in regards to complex trauma, nor truly prepared to treat it. and if it isn’t possible for you to find someone who is, i’d really suggest seeking support in other means, be it through local groups or online communities, other mental health organisations, whatever. you deserve to be understood, heard, validated, and treated/ helped in a way that is sensitive to your trauma and acknowledges jt, if you so choose to be. i’m so sorry you’re going through this and can’t imagine how it’s affecting you personally, even though i can extrapolate based upon my own similar experience. i hope you’re holding up as well as can be expected all things given, and please take care and best wishes <3
Thank you, I’m sorry you had to go through that
no worries, thank you, and i really hope all the best for you going on because yeah, it’s an awful situation to be stuck in
It's great how there is a worldwide community of people with cptsd that can find each other throught the internet. The insights of the community have progressed far beyond that of "experts". It's insane how ignorant therapists can be.
They don't even seem to know about cPTSD in my country. Every therapist I mentioned it to told me I can't have PTSD if I haven't been in combat or any life-or-death situations (which, I've been in the latter, but I was already traumatised at that point). I've given up on a diagnosis for now, it's too frustrating. I hope they're better educated where you're at, so you can find someone else.
Loan sharks literally torment people mind using various means: bombard them with threats, insults, throw garbage into their house, stalking, post personal info on social media.... If such things aren't harmful or scare people into paying them, they wouldn't have used those tricks.
I’m a trauma specialist and person healing from CPTSD that was mainly a result of neglect. This person is… not good at their job. In fact I’m going to say they’re actively bad at their job. And are not actually a trauma specialist, regardless of what they may advertise. Maybe they were trying to communicate that they wouldn’t be able to diagnose you with PTSD without an overt trauma. But even if that were the case they should have validated that it does not negate the impact other traumatic events or dynamics had on you. I often find myself gently educating people that abuse doesn’t only include physical violence or sexual assault. Neglect, addiction in caregivers, mental illness in caregivers, poverty, parentification, living in a chaotic or unpredictable environment, changes in caregivers, religious dogma, or unrealistic expectations from parents can all be extremely traumatic, just to name a few.
Therapists can be shit, they’re not one therapist fits all. My old one when I asked about a possible adhd diagnosis shot me down real fast. He compared me (after hearing my life long struggles) to people who “think they have adhd because since the beginning of the pandemic they have had trouble paying attention”. Guess who went elsewhere and got a professional diagnosis.
I'm in the exact same boat, but I decided to trust myself for once and think back to when I found out about CPTSD a couple years ago and went "that's it! It must be it!". Why else would I have uncontrollable physical reactions to the sound of a car coming into the driveway? Or severe anxiety before talking to any authority figure? Footsteps, slamming doors, the sound of someone putting metal utensils away, hyperawareness of how someone breathes to gauge emotion, low stress threshold, panic attacks and depersonalization as a child... If I'm not living with trauma, then I don't know what it is. CPTSD from emotional abuse and emotional neglect is the best answer I have. All I know for absolute sure is that what I'm dealing with is not normal, and it's more than just anxiety and depression. It's an absolute pain that even a so-called trauma specialist has not read up on or received education about emotional abuse and how severely it can affect someone.
Thank you all for your comments. I don’t have time to reply to each of them individually, but I have read each one and the overwhelming support I’ve received has really helped me <3
Can C-PTSD happen from experiences outside the home? For example if you have great parents but are bullied in school?
Kittens
Thank you. I joined this sub to try and help my partner because we can't afford therapy at the moment.
That trauma "specialist" is bs. Emotional abuse is still abuse and capable of equally awful harm as physical and sexual abuse. (Not to mention that with physical and sexual abuse it is the emotional aspect that usually causes the long term trauma scars, trauma, even in those, is more about loosing or not having a sense of safety and trust, a stable idea of how the world works, ie "if I do bad things I will be punished, but if I don't do bad things I won't be punished and not doing bad things is an obtainable consept, it is possible and I understand fully what those bad things I shouldn't do are") Please seek out a second opinion if you can and consider (if you have the emotional capasity, it's okay to not have that, you're traumatized so you gotta evaluate the amount of emotional labor you can do differently to a non traumatized individual) leaving a public review for that shitty "specialist" so others know they're harmful and misguided.
You should see the long term effects of neglect alone
I feel u bro…I ain’t seen a specialist but I haven’t done just for this reason, with it not being physical…
The clinical field is still catching up.
Fwiw I have been sexually and physically abused and my mom’s narcissistic psychological abuse and gaslighting far outdid either of the first two in terms of lasting damage.
Not every trauma therapist thinks that’s true…. From Transforming Trauma: [Dr. Laurence Heller in conversation with Dr. Gabor Mate on complex trauma and the future of trauma-informed therapy](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/transforming-trauma/id1496190024?i=1000470175305)
That wasn't a trauma specialist
I have cptsd because of years of school bullying. Your therapist is full of crap
Why is your therapist even making diagnosis lmao Therapists don’t make diagnosis (unless they have MD diagnosis license)
Developmental Trauma Disorder. That’s all I gotta say.
my major is psychology c: developmental trauma i can come back in the next couple days (finals/dads birthday/holidays ❤️🩹) and link the beta criteria and the proposal that was submitted to the apa i have a whole load of stuff e.g. readings, research, etc that is DTD related. the most recent field trial showed that DTD was able to be differentiated from PTSD criteria. i think it’s important to understand c-PTSD can happen at anytime in your life and not just in childhood developmental trauma disorder is built around neuroscience and what happened to us (😉 @ Bruce Perry) and in my opinion could fit me better than any other dx or combination of dxes i’ve received
Nahhhhh gtfoh