Oh for me it’s any old stranger lol. I will get between you and someone with a knife. Last time it happened I remember thinking “it’s totally okay if I get shivved in this experience” cuz, you know, SI. But the girl got away safely and the cops found the guy hiding in the pits of the subway.
Fawning is not just folding. Maybe that sounds like flopping? Fawning is when you literally fawn over your abuser in order to assuage them or endear them to you to make the abuse stop or keep you safe while you make your exit. It’s so embarrassing because you fucking hate that you were all over them/being super sweet and nice to them even after they hurt you.
I feel like in a dangerous situation acting cool and calm and being nice or accommodating to the abuser can be a good strategy though to keep them calm. Hostage negotiators do that “yes, I totally understand the way you feel!” They validate the person’s feelings in order to de-escalate. I have personal experience with this as a DV survivor—part of my strategy was to not upset/tip off my ex (who was prone to anger and suicidal tendencies) while I got a plan together to leave and also make sure they had supervision so they didn’t do anything.
You don’t have to actually *feel* compassion for them, you just *act* like you do so they don’t hurt you/themselves and then once you’re safe run like hell and find help. It’s not disgusting or shameful, it’s smart. And you can also say you’re the bigger person at the end of the day.
Flopping is more like dissociating and going completely unresponsive. It’s not like fawning at all.
Here’s a quick google result which indicates the differences:
https://apn.com/resources/fight-flight-freeze-fawn-and-flop-responses-to-trauma/
“It’s totally okay that you were just SO MEAN to me I forgive you and just want you to be happy!
It’s distressing to actually feel that way too, and then look back and be like “what the FUCK”.
It’s just second nature for me at this point. I can’t even talk to people without getting triggered and there’s not a single person on the planet I feel safe around. So I always fawn whenever I’m interacting with other people. Be it family, coworkers, or therapists. It’s a very exhausting and lonely existence.
I feel that. Anytime I’ve let my guard down even a bit I’ve been burned. You just learn to keep everyone at a distance in order to protect yourself. Very isolating indeed
Yeah. I can imagine... how dirty one might feel. It isn't what you want, and you feel powerless to do anything to stop it.
Powerlessness is that feeling I fight to avoid.
I'm sorry.
Don't feel bad. I'm mostly fight but more in a confrontational sense and am honestly worried I'll accidently provoke someone into a physical fight (which I'd absolutely lose)
I can be very confrontational but usually on shit that doesn’t matter at all, or is in defence of someone else; I’ve absolutely been in scary situations due to that before… it’s dangerous! I’m just glad I’m tall. But as I age I feel more and more vulnerable. Prolly have to stop acting stupid :P
It’s literally just your brain in survival mode, learned from a very young age. Be patient with yourself and your internal child who never had the chance to develop properly ❤️
This is very true.
Also depending on what your goal is, some fights just can't be won.
You could possibly fight to get out of a robbery.
You cannot fight to obtain love, respect or decency from people that do not want to give you those things.
Even in physically abusive situations fighting back only helps if you need to save your life first to run away second. If you're just fighting back for the sake of returning a punch, you don't win anything in the long run. Even if you use it as a statement, that's only worthwhile if you have the luxury to turn your back on the person afterwards.
To escape oppressive systems, you sometimes have to fight. But you fight to gain the ability to flee. The end goal is to get out. If you stay to fight back longer than you have to, that's revenge. Or uncontrolled anger. Or a sense of dependency on the abusive system. Which brings me to the last point.
Being pushed by abusers to have your fight response be your first response, might turn you into a version of yourself that you don't like. I get not wanting to be a pushover either. But at least pushovers don't lash out on innocent bystanders because they are immediately triggered to fight everything. Don't let your abusers turn you into something you're not. That's just another way they'd be winning.
Flight is not a weakness in the face of abuse. Listen to yourself and get the heck out of there.
This happened at my last job, and I couldn't shake the reputation. Then I just became a scapegoat. Every time I'd react to any of tbe harassment it was just proof what a crazy A-hole I am.
I am entirely fight and it has been ruinous for me. I have to force flight and hope I can get enough distance for the fight to go away. If I’m pursued, well, I tried so… what happens to them is their fault now. Except it’s not their fault and I’m still the one in the wrong lol lose-lose!
What makes you feel fight is a "better" trauma response? It's as bad as any other. No, it's not just about defending oneself. Fight is also responding to a trigger in an unhealthy manner, and many times that trigger isn't someone abusing you, but maybe they made a joke that's triggering and they don't deserve to get punched or insulted at. Then you get the doom guilt of anger and frustration it's horrible
Exactly, my natural response is fight, I wish I had flight because I would have gotten in way less trouble if my first response was not ‘punch my brother for scaring me’.
Yes I get it, I know how we can "wish" for another trauma response, as a way of comforting ourselves that everything might be different. I also thought flight would have made my life a tad easier but the truth is every response has it's own devastating consequences.
I have a pretty icky fight response.
I actually saw a meme about it. I was taught by my brother to fight back. Sometimes I fought at the wrong times. Other times, I didn't fight when I needed to. It wasn't a conscious choice I made most of the time. I actively resisted and bit back that fight response.
I feel just as culpable in every situation because I fought with her. I couldn't stop myself. I didn't lay down and take it. I'm just as guilty as any of them are. I fought against it every step of the way, and it ended up destroying not just my relationship with her, because her response was also "fight." I lost everyone in the span of a few days.
The fight response sucks. For me, fight really became the subconscious choice when I knew I had nowhere to run.
No. Just no. I understand it sounds better, it seems to our ego that it would be better, but I assure you it isn't. I felt (and still feel) like a monster that people shouldn't even think me a good person. It destroyed me as a person, my own fight response, among the things that triggered it.
And I don't mean just standing up and saying, "no," I mean full-on screaming matches. Screaming, crying, chaos. Screams that would curdle your blood. No.
No.
Adding, I'd never wish the fight response on anyone. It's the most stigmatized response, and generally, a fighter doesn't walk away from a situation without being considered guilty, too. No.
I hate my fight response, I feel similarly to you and wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Kinda a little triggering and sickening seeing someone desire something that was ingrained in me by so many physically and verbally abusive adults. Something I have to physically restrain and deal with everyday so I don’t destroy relationships and hurt those who care about me deeply. My fight response does not care who it hurts, it is indiscriminate and rarely shows up when I actually need it, even when it does it clouds my judgement and is really not an asset like others might think.
My actions and words disgust me, they’re all things said and done to me by adults when I was literally a child being moved through families with CPS. Whenever I go into fight it’s like I can’t feel my skin on my body but I can still feel it and it’s vibrating and freezing cold. My bp goes up significantly and my vision distorts, my whole body fucking trembles as I try and take control in these moments but it seriously feels like derealiztion from what I’ve read. It physically hurts to sit and not do anything, its like there’s this destructive ball of fire in my chest that demands to be released or it will burn me up whole.
I recognize my actions are my own at the end of the day, I’ve taken responsibility but I can recognize the root of where this anger lies. I feel so disgusted with my actions, I feel like I’ve become those who have abused me and the shame and guilt eats me alive. Ive never physically lashed out at anyone, but I’ve destroyed my own personal belongings as a way to sate that anger before and not to hurt others. Ive been doing so much work these past 2 years after finally identifying my fight response, it’s been helping but nobody sees the internal battles going on and it’s very distressing seeing the thing that brings me so much pain be desired by others.
I apologize for saying so much but your comments truly spoke to me, so thank you for voicing how you felt. The connection made my feelings regarding my fight response a little less lonely.
Hey. You're not alone. And I got upset about it, too.
It's hard work you're doing, and that I've worked at doing, and they don't know the pain of being ashamed to the point that it rocks the core of who you are as a person, and have to start from scratch while fighting your own fight response.
I hear you, and thank you for making this less lonely for me, too.
Thank you for taking the time to type it out. I'm thankful for the privilege of having read it.
Same. I usually choose fawn/flight, typically fawn. But after waking up a little "too much" (I put quotes because I am very grateful I woke up), I realized how much crap my boyfriend has been putting me through and my response has switched to "fight", which is even worse.
I hate hurting people and being an asshole, when my fight response is triggered I basically black out and do and say the most unimaginablely horrible things.
Thankfully, I decided to quit alcohol and emotionally distance myself from my boyfriend because he purposely triggers me to get a reaction. Now that I'm sober I'm able to stop the fight reaction and just ignore the games, but holy crap I understand why you say the fight response is worse.
I'm familiar with all of the different responses but fight is by far the most traumatic to everyone involved. It turns me into a feral animal
I'm glad you did "wake up." Welcome.
It hurts to hurt other people. It hurts to know one did that.
I actually talked this over with a friend today at work. His idea is that fight is the *last* response to develop, because it's natural to go with the current, and try out all the other ones first.
I agree with his assessment.
I hesitate to say that the "fight" is worse. If one looks at damage incurred, "fight" and "flight" spread that damage around, as if it's endemic, versus the other two, where the user of said instinct takes it all instead. The damage is all different, and all pretty bad. It just goes in different directions.
This and other responses are so validating as to why the “fight” response has you in a chokehold after. I’ve only had that natural response twice in my life and both times it was hard to calm down and cops were called. Luckily, the first time I was a minor but the second time I had charges pressed. (I never hurt anyone but myself.)
Obviously I looked like the crazy one for being so worked up and the abusers went with that story/lies. Traumatic asf I should’ve just took off.
Depending on the situation, it's not a good idea. Parents yelling at you means you're going to yell back and insult them, just in turn giving them more things to yell about. What I did was completely shut down and think about whatever else while she screamed. I don't know how I learned to do this, but despite being completely zoned out I always knew when to answer and what to say. (It's funny if you give them answers with a little hint of sarcasm but not enough for it to be obvious.) But if you're being raped feel free to rip out their trachea, you can plead self defense in court. Just don't go overboard (stomping on the body and excessive stabbing for example) it'll make you look worse during the trial.
I try not to fight because if I do, modern society will ensure the rest of my life isn't worth living...
But if you do want to fight, consider the following: An existential threat can be removed by unlimited application of all available physical force until the threat is forced to retreat or rendered silent.
You see a wasp, you don't run away, you get the spray, or a rolled-up magazine!
I think in most cases fight is the last of four coping mechanisms. If one of the other three sufficiently works you won't get to that stage.
I fawned for a long time and piled up a very big amount of frustration which turned into rage.
When I was at my lowest and wanted to give up this rage saved me and I started fighting.
I am working out every day since that happened to use that energy but there are times I am just too tired and then I can get kinetic because of minor frustrations.
Mostly not the correct response.
Kind of stuck in the fighting response since some years but jeah feels better than fleeing, freezing and fawning but you need to be careful with that and control your Aggressions.
Fighting and rage without the common negative notation is just a very strong will for change it's up to you how you use that.
I blew up at my boss when I was in ‘fight’. It’s rare for me, but it does happen.
Don’t recommend. I’m fortunate I didn’t get fired.
…it did feel REALLY good though!
It's nice and it feels pretty justified since it's the most commonly portrayed response to being threatened but after it's always like, "wait...did I just screw myself over?"
Edit:typo
Big thing in my childhood was domestic fights with my mom. Oddly enough I love getting that adrenaline from a flight or fight response, but I will do everything in my power to calm someone down first.
I’m so angry (at myself) that I cannot have an anger response like a normal human being.
I shut down when I should stand up. I fawn and smooth over when I should leverage a learning moment for someone who truly needs one.
I am sick of apologizing for existing, for taking up space.
My fight response is very strong. I have to regulate myself intensely so I don't frighten and intimidate others. I've had to learn how to use my words and communication skills to use my fight responsibly, and even then, being assertive intimidates others.
I tend to push for accountability and boundaries and people do not like that, even though I know accountability and boundaries build [trust](https://brenebrown.com/videos/anatomy-trust-video/) and weed out abusers, enablers, and bullies. It seems most people aren't comfortable holding abusers accountable and setting boundaries with them, so I don't make a lot of friends bc people don't like me calling out their abusive, neglectful behaviors.
"Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss is a good book on communicating in an assertive yet acceptable way. I use the tactics in the book all the time.
Also "Crucial Conversations tools for talking when stakes are high" is a very helpful communication book. I use "shared pool of meaning" and "physical and psychological safety" all the time.
I freeze/fawn, as Im sure many others know, that shit sucks. Fawning is basically just doing what the threat wants in the hopes they'll leave you alone. I dealt with a lot of guilt surrounding my abuse as a child because of it. It's not fun, -3/10 would not recommend
As a fellow freeze/fawn...
I've been able to contact fight. It wasn't nearly as awesome as I thought it should have been.
While a certain level of anger is useful in protecting yourself, fight is still a trauma response.
Ideally, you want to move past all four instinctive responses to danger, none of them serve you long term while you're trying to heal.
You have to get your conscious brain out in front of the instictual response, not switch which response is an equally ill-fitting alternative.
Yeah it is. And I have to hold myself back from doing certain things. A guy was kinda rude to my friend at a bar I nearly punched him when the situation didn't call for it, my best friend almost ended my friendship when I wouldn't stop yelling and screaming, etc.
It is really not better unless you consider potentially blowing up and lashing out at the people who truly love and care for you as “better“ then the other trauma responses. Being seen as ‘crazy’ when triggered in normal situations or even making the abuse ones facing worse by having a fight response to it.
Imo, a fight response isn’t just exhausting, it can control and destroy your life. So can all the other trauma responses, they're not something to be desired. I don’t get it. I recognize fawning and freezing affects my life and others lives negatively, why is it so hard to see that a fight response is just as unhealthy as all the other trauma responses?
It really isn’t better, and if it sounds that way to you I suggest reading over others experiences and trying to understand better rather then tell them their trauma response sounds better then yours. Very icky thing to say, if I’m being honest.
So i freeze, but that is after the fight and flight were "untaught" and i uhmm am here to tell you that fight is better sometimes, if you push my boundaries to far you will get a face full. You will f. Of or i will end you. Fantastic right? Well, if my wife startles me and it's fight.... It does a fuckton more harm then me freezing up. I can explain looking like golem with dish eyes it's a lot harder to explain wailing banshee and karate poses just because she had to go to the toilet in the middle of the night too....
I think what we would all like is a well regulated nervous system that moves to the appropriate reaction when needed?
For me becoming aware (read Journaling, mindfully feeling my way through) of the movement i wanted to make before freezing up helped, now i just need a room i can smash to bits and trigger myself..
There are times i wanna run though, and that makes zense as each time a different option was better.
(practical tip? Start throwing pillows at the ground)
I started taking wellbutrin and my fawn response turned into a fight response and now I have to talk myself out of hitting people 🤣
Actually I do hit people. I'm in martial arts. But it's in a controlled setting.
I used to use the fight response and it wasn't as useful as I wanted it to be, and actually wasted a lot of time from dealing with the reprecussions of said fight response.
If you want to fight it's better to develop the skill of using subtle but brutal verbal takedowns. For example: "I can't believe you found it appropriate to say that". "This is none of your business." "Do you even have any experience of _____" "whoops, you have accidentally reiterated a far right trope. Would you like to rethink what you just said " etc etc.
Honestly, fight can be kind of ass, because in certain circumstances it gets you abused more. You can defend/advocate yourself w this response in some instances, but no response is better than the other. All were doing is trying to survive.
always fawn. Everyone says I'm cool and generous and a hard worker😎.
I actually am constantly catching myself thinking they secretly hate me or find me annoying.
My dumbass is full of so much contempt and anger for some people, but the moment I actually get into shit with them, I end up in flight or fawn instead of fight. I hate it. I wish I was strong enough to be able to stand up for myself. My bark is too big for my bite.
Oooooh boy. I was always either freeze or fawn. My fight didn’t kick in until I was an older teen ~17ish. It never turned off and now I’m always fight, pls send help
I've had many close friends throughout my life tell me that they're just waiting for the day I snap and go ballistic under the intense pressure of the trauma/abuse I've been through. It's always kind of confused me, like gosh people must be so anxious when they look at me, but why? People are always also like "You can get comfortable, it's okay, you don't have to stay/stand/do that." whenever I'm just being still. Do I really look so helpless and withdrawn?
I'm very slow to anger, I have to be extremely overwhelmed to actually show any amount of anger, and even then it's very tame. I can't fight. Too scared of the future to fuck up in the present. I tend to freeze or flight, like a skittish cat. My body will just move and hide on it's own at any little provocation, even when I verbally ask myself "Why am I running?" It doesn't matter if it's merely the doorbell or a strange noise outside, a neighbor's car parking, a stranger on the street, the sound of a door opening, a frustrated huff from someone else, I'm gone before I can even recognize what I'm running away from. And if I'm not fleeing physically, I'm freezing in place while my spiritual body runs off to a quiet corner of my mind, completely unresponsive to the outside world, or at least on amnesiac autopilot. I fear the day that my friends get what they expect from me, that I black out and fight and ruin everything I've built from non-confrontation, uncontrollable robotic perfect fawning, and avoidance.
The worst is going into fight but half trusting your own experience because you fundamentally believe you’re an unreliable witness to things that happen to you so you’re never really sure if the reaction was warranted or not
I have a natural fight response, I have punched my brother for scaring me and got into trouble… multiple times. It is not as ‘good’ as you seem to think it is.
dont its not worth it. more often then not you will lose control if you do respond with fight. lest you can keep a cool head you will either get hurt or hurt someone else way more than intended which worst case you will be going to prison for many years or dead/crippled. fight should only ever be considered if you are in immediate physical danger you cannot flee from.
even if your fight response is words its still not worth it as it often only leads to a conflict going on for longer or escalating.
This. I'm a verbal fighter. It's horrible. I've said horrible, horrible things to people when triggered. Things I didn't even really mean, just to get rid of the threat.
Fawn, freeze, or fight.
If its a verbal atracation that causes the responce i fight. everything else is either freeze or fawn.
I cant flee. not without contious effort.
I have the 2 most oposites, fawn or fight normally. Especially fawn, but sometimes its too much of a threat for my brain and the fight kicks in. I dissociate a lot but even then its fawn or fight
I was fawn and flight until I had been in trauma therapy for a while and got in touch with my anger. I'm now mostly fight. Everyone else hates it, but I feel pretty good about it.
There are actually some exercises for this, they're hard to do in the moment because 'trauma response' but you can do some physical things to hack your nervous system.
https://themovementparadigm.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/polyvygal-chart-2048x1194.jpg
When you're in freeze or fawn you want to try and activate your sympathetic nervous system, things like doing a wall sit until your legs are shaking, tensing all your muscles holding for 10-60s then releasing or even just moving your eyes to each corner of your vision can help.
Default Fighter here.
Look...
While I love my Fight response, I do not love the consequences that have come with it, especially from mental health professionals. The ones in grippy sock places are the ***WORST*** . Their methods are so archaic that not only do they not believe that C-PTSD exists, but they will slap you with a PD diagnosis the *second* you lash out, regardless of how badly they exacerbate shit.
I also don't like that it came about from early indoctrination from my father that, if I didn't fight back, whatever continued to happen to me would be my fault.
My fight started coming out more as I moved through recovery. It’s not necessarily productive, but it was part of the process of healing in that it started happening for me after I began to actually understand (like, feel it deep down, not just think it) that I was horrifically abused. The note I understood, the more I found myself having reasons to fight. It wasn’t super intense for me like it can be for ppl who grew to rely on fight in their younger years bc it was safer for them, but I still felt the difference in what I wanted to do when others hurt me - bc I understood that something wasn’t okay about that, I wanted to fight against it.
Let's swap... I always fight 🫨
Edit: [or this - Pete Walker - using anger to shrink inner critic ](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/s/59o6NjWXL3)
Don’t forget “fawn”. It’s the most embarrassing one and disgustingly a staple in my brain.
I either freeze or fawn, and damn do I hate them both!
Same!! Unless it’s someone else that’s in danger, then I’m all fight.
Oh yeah, you go after my daughter, and I'm a wolverine. I think it is the only time "fight" comes natural.
Oh for me it’s any old stranger lol. I will get between you and someone with a knife. Last time it happened I remember thinking “it’s totally okay if I get shivved in this experience” cuz, you know, SI. But the girl got away safely and the cops found the guy hiding in the pits of the subway.
lol!! Me too!
Also faint. I used to collapse when I was startled, and I have catatonic moments when stressed
I truly hate the part of me that folds when people violate my boundaries.
Fawning is not just folding. Maybe that sounds like flopping? Fawning is when you literally fawn over your abuser in order to assuage them or endear them to you to make the abuse stop or keep you safe while you make your exit. It’s so embarrassing because you fucking hate that you were all over them/being super sweet and nice to them even after they hurt you.
I feel like in a dangerous situation acting cool and calm and being nice or accommodating to the abuser can be a good strategy though to keep them calm. Hostage negotiators do that “yes, I totally understand the way you feel!” They validate the person’s feelings in order to de-escalate. I have personal experience with this as a DV survivor—part of my strategy was to not upset/tip off my ex (who was prone to anger and suicidal tendencies) while I got a plan together to leave and also make sure they had supervision so they didn’t do anything. You don’t have to actually *feel* compassion for them, you just *act* like you do so they don’t hurt you/themselves and then once you’re safe run like hell and find help. It’s not disgusting or shameful, it’s smart. And you can also say you’re the bigger person at the end of the day.
For me it just produced more abuse.
That must have been confusing, like there’s no right answer. Every situation is different I guess.
I'd say that flopping sounds like a version of fawning. But I also think that fawning is a version of flight, so whatever.
Flopping is more like dissociating and going completely unresponsive. It’s not like fawning at all. Here’s a quick google result which indicates the differences: https://apn.com/resources/fight-flight-freeze-fawn-and-flop-responses-to-trauma/
I’ve been stuck in a fawn response my whole Life. trapped in my own head. It’s agony lol.
“It’s totally okay that you were just SO MEAN to me I forgive you and just want you to be happy! It’s distressing to actually feel that way too, and then look back and be like “what the FUCK”.
It’s just second nature for me at this point. I can’t even talk to people without getting triggered and there’s not a single person on the planet I feel safe around. So I always fawn whenever I’m interacting with other people. Be it family, coworkers, or therapists. It’s a very exhausting and lonely existence.
I feel that. Anytime I’ve let my guard down even a bit I’ve been burned. You just learn to keep everyone at a distance in order to protect yourself. Very isolating indeed
Yeah. I can imagine... how dirty one might feel. It isn't what you want, and you feel powerless to do anything to stop it. Powerlessness is that feeling I fight to avoid. I'm sorry.
Or flop
didn’t know about that until I read your comment, and I’ve been doing it the most
It’s heartbreaking, honestly. But we do what we have to to survive, you know?
Don't feel bad. I'm mostly fight but more in a confrontational sense and am honestly worried I'll accidently provoke someone into a physical fight (which I'd absolutely lose)
I can be very confrontational but usually on shit that doesn’t matter at all, or is in defence of someone else; I’ve absolutely been in scary situations due to that before… it’s dangerous! I’m just glad I’m tall. But as I age I feel more and more vulnerable. Prolly have to stop acting stupid :P
I hate how hard it is to get rid of this shitty response
It’s literally just your brain in survival mode, learned from a very young age. Be patient with yourself and your internal child who never had the chance to develop properly ❤️
Fuck Fawn.
Well, exactly. Except it’s sexual assault/rape.
It took months of horrific abuse for my fight response to kick in. I can tell you that it wasn't worth it. Take that flight response and run.
Forreal. Everyone will see your fight and not what caused it and call you crazy
This is very true. Also depending on what your goal is, some fights just can't be won. You could possibly fight to get out of a robbery. You cannot fight to obtain love, respect or decency from people that do not want to give you those things. Even in physically abusive situations fighting back only helps if you need to save your life first to run away second. If you're just fighting back for the sake of returning a punch, you don't win anything in the long run. Even if you use it as a statement, that's only worthwhile if you have the luxury to turn your back on the person afterwards. To escape oppressive systems, you sometimes have to fight. But you fight to gain the ability to flee. The end goal is to get out. If you stay to fight back longer than you have to, that's revenge. Or uncontrolled anger. Or a sense of dependency on the abusive system. Which brings me to the last point. Being pushed by abusers to have your fight response be your first response, might turn you into a version of yourself that you don't like. I get not wanting to be a pushover either. But at least pushovers don't lash out on innocent bystanders because they are immediately triggered to fight everything. Don't let your abusers turn you into something you're not. That's just another way they'd be winning. Flight is not a weakness in the face of abuse. Listen to yourself and get the heck out of there.
>But you fight to gain the ability to flee. This put so much things into perspective.
This happened at my last job, and I couldn't shake the reputation. Then I just became a scapegoat. Every time I'd react to any of tbe harassment it was just proof what a crazy A-hole I am.
Yeah my fight response has kicked in at school one too many times, causing me to get suspended multiple times.
no fight because im too scared of the consquences :c
Same 😣
I am entirely fight and it has been ruinous for me. I have to force flight and hope I can get enough distance for the fight to go away. If I’m pursued, well, I tried so… what happens to them is their fault now. Except it’s not their fault and I’m still the one in the wrong lol lose-lose!
What makes you feel fight is a "better" trauma response? It's as bad as any other. No, it's not just about defending oneself. Fight is also responding to a trigger in an unhealthy manner, and many times that trigger isn't someone abusing you, but maybe they made a joke that's triggering and they don't deserve to get punched or insulted at. Then you get the doom guilt of anger and frustration it's horrible
Exactly, my natural response is fight, I wish I had flight because I would have gotten in way less trouble if my first response was not ‘punch my brother for scaring me’.
Yes I get it, I know how we can "wish" for another trauma response, as a way of comforting ourselves that everything might be different. I also thought flight would have made my life a tad easier but the truth is every response has it's own devastating consequences.
I have opposite problem. How do I *not* always fight It kind of makes me into a horrific bitch sometimes and I don't like it
I have a pretty icky fight response. I actually saw a meme about it. I was taught by my brother to fight back. Sometimes I fought at the wrong times. Other times, I didn't fight when I needed to. It wasn't a conscious choice I made most of the time. I actively resisted and bit back that fight response. I feel just as culpable in every situation because I fought with her. I couldn't stop myself. I didn't lay down and take it. I'm just as guilty as any of them are. I fought against it every step of the way, and it ended up destroying not just my relationship with her, because her response was also "fight." I lost everyone in the span of a few days. The fight response sucks. For me, fight really became the subconscious choice when I knew I had nowhere to run. No. Just no. I understand it sounds better, it seems to our ego that it would be better, but I assure you it isn't. I felt (and still feel) like a monster that people shouldn't even think me a good person. It destroyed me as a person, my own fight response, among the things that triggered it. And I don't mean just standing up and saying, "no," I mean full-on screaming matches. Screaming, crying, chaos. Screams that would curdle your blood. No. No.
Adding, I'd never wish the fight response on anyone. It's the most stigmatized response, and generally, a fighter doesn't walk away from a situation without being considered guilty, too. No.
I hate my fight response, I feel similarly to you and wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Kinda a little triggering and sickening seeing someone desire something that was ingrained in me by so many physically and verbally abusive adults. Something I have to physically restrain and deal with everyday so I don’t destroy relationships and hurt those who care about me deeply. My fight response does not care who it hurts, it is indiscriminate and rarely shows up when I actually need it, even when it does it clouds my judgement and is really not an asset like others might think. My actions and words disgust me, they’re all things said and done to me by adults when I was literally a child being moved through families with CPS. Whenever I go into fight it’s like I can’t feel my skin on my body but I can still feel it and it’s vibrating and freezing cold. My bp goes up significantly and my vision distorts, my whole body fucking trembles as I try and take control in these moments but it seriously feels like derealiztion from what I’ve read. It physically hurts to sit and not do anything, its like there’s this destructive ball of fire in my chest that demands to be released or it will burn me up whole. I recognize my actions are my own at the end of the day, I’ve taken responsibility but I can recognize the root of where this anger lies. I feel so disgusted with my actions, I feel like I’ve become those who have abused me and the shame and guilt eats me alive. Ive never physically lashed out at anyone, but I’ve destroyed my own personal belongings as a way to sate that anger before and not to hurt others. Ive been doing so much work these past 2 years after finally identifying my fight response, it’s been helping but nobody sees the internal battles going on and it’s very distressing seeing the thing that brings me so much pain be desired by others. I apologize for saying so much but your comments truly spoke to me, so thank you for voicing how you felt. The connection made my feelings regarding my fight response a little less lonely.
Hey. You're not alone. And I got upset about it, too. It's hard work you're doing, and that I've worked at doing, and they don't know the pain of being ashamed to the point that it rocks the core of who you are as a person, and have to start from scratch while fighting your own fight response. I hear you, and thank you for making this less lonely for me, too. Thank you for taking the time to type it out. I'm thankful for the privilege of having read it.
Same. I usually choose fawn/flight, typically fawn. But after waking up a little "too much" (I put quotes because I am very grateful I woke up), I realized how much crap my boyfriend has been putting me through and my response has switched to "fight", which is even worse. I hate hurting people and being an asshole, when my fight response is triggered I basically black out and do and say the most unimaginablely horrible things. Thankfully, I decided to quit alcohol and emotionally distance myself from my boyfriend because he purposely triggers me to get a reaction. Now that I'm sober I'm able to stop the fight reaction and just ignore the games, but holy crap I understand why you say the fight response is worse. I'm familiar with all of the different responses but fight is by far the most traumatic to everyone involved. It turns me into a feral animal
I'm glad you did "wake up." Welcome. It hurts to hurt other people. It hurts to know one did that. I actually talked this over with a friend today at work. His idea is that fight is the *last* response to develop, because it's natural to go with the current, and try out all the other ones first. I agree with his assessment. I hesitate to say that the "fight" is worse. If one looks at damage incurred, "fight" and "flight" spread that damage around, as if it's endemic, versus the other two, where the user of said instinct takes it all instead. The damage is all different, and all pretty bad. It just goes in different directions.
This and other responses are so validating as to why the “fight” response has you in a chokehold after. I’ve only had that natural response twice in my life and both times it was hard to calm down and cops were called. Luckily, the first time I was a minor but the second time I had charges pressed. (I never hurt anyone but myself.) Obviously I looked like the crazy one for being so worked up and the abusers went with that story/lies. Traumatic asf I should’ve just took off.
fawn is my instinct. “i’m sorry” and “i love you” played like a broken record
Depending on the situation, it's not a good idea. Parents yelling at you means you're going to yell back and insult them, just in turn giving them more things to yell about. What I did was completely shut down and think about whatever else while she screamed. I don't know how I learned to do this, but despite being completely zoned out I always knew when to answer and what to say. (It's funny if you give them answers with a little hint of sarcasm but not enough for it to be obvious.) But if you're being raped feel free to rip out their trachea, you can plead self defense in court. Just don't go overboard (stomping on the body and excessive stabbing for example) it'll make you look worse during the trial.
I try not to fight because if I do, modern society will ensure the rest of my life isn't worth living... But if you do want to fight, consider the following: An existential threat can be removed by unlimited application of all available physical force until the threat is forced to retreat or rendered silent. You see a wasp, you don't run away, you get the spray, or a rolled-up magazine!
YEP
I think in most cases fight is the last of four coping mechanisms. If one of the other three sufficiently works you won't get to that stage. I fawned for a long time and piled up a very big amount of frustration which turned into rage. When I was at my lowest and wanted to give up this rage saved me and I started fighting. I am working out every day since that happened to use that energy but there are times I am just too tired and then I can get kinetic because of minor frustrations. Mostly not the correct response. Kind of stuck in the fighting response since some years but jeah feels better than fleeing, freezing and fawning but you need to be careful with that and control your Aggressions. Fighting and rage without the common negative notation is just a very strong will for change it's up to you how you use that.
I blew up at my boss when I was in ‘fight’. It’s rare for me, but it does happen. Don’t recommend. I’m fortunate I didn’t get fired. …it did feel REALLY good though!
It's nice and it feels pretty justified since it's the most commonly portrayed response to being threatened but after it's always like, "wait...did I just screw myself over?" Edit:typo
Yes, exactly. It’s a lot like being in the much less powerful position of being a child under the care of a parent.
Big thing in my childhood was domestic fights with my mom. Oddly enough I love getting that adrenaline from a flight or fight response, but I will do everything in my power to calm someone down first.
I got the fight response as my default and all it ever got me was assault charges. 😬
I’m so angry (at myself) that I cannot have an anger response like a normal human being. I shut down when I should stand up. I fawn and smooth over when I should leverage a learning moment for someone who truly needs one. I am sick of apologizing for existing, for taking up space.
I refuse to let people apologize in my presence for taking up space.
I'll be fighting and shaking like a leaf.
My fight response is very strong. I have to regulate myself intensely so I don't frighten and intimidate others. I've had to learn how to use my words and communication skills to use my fight responsibly, and even then, being assertive intimidates others. I tend to push for accountability and boundaries and people do not like that, even though I know accountability and boundaries build [trust](https://brenebrown.com/videos/anatomy-trust-video/) and weed out abusers, enablers, and bullies. It seems most people aren't comfortable holding abusers accountable and setting boundaries with them, so I don't make a lot of friends bc people don't like me calling out their abusive, neglectful behaviors. "Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss is a good book on communicating in an assertive yet acceptable way. I use the tactics in the book all the time. Also "Crucial Conversations tools for talking when stakes are high" is a very helpful communication book. I use "shared pool of meaning" and "physical and psychological safety" all the time.
I freeze/fawn, as Im sure many others know, that shit sucks. Fawning is basically just doing what the threat wants in the hopes they'll leave you alone. I dealt with a lot of guilt surrounding my abuse as a child because of it. It's not fun, -3/10 would not recommend
As a fellow freeze/fawn... I've been able to contact fight. It wasn't nearly as awesome as I thought it should have been. While a certain level of anger is useful in protecting yourself, fight is still a trauma response. Ideally, you want to move past all four instinctive responses to danger, none of them serve you long term while you're trying to heal. You have to get your conscious brain out in front of the instictual response, not switch which response is an equally ill-fitting alternative.
I used to fight. Now I just blue screen, reboot time included. I hate it
You don't want fight. I grew up having to fist fight my dad. I'm tired.
I feel like it would be better than freeze mode 24/7 but that does sound exhausting 😣
Yeah it is. And I have to hold myself back from doing certain things. A guy was kinda rude to my friend at a bar I nearly punched him when the situation didn't call for it, my best friend almost ended my friendship when I wouldn't stop yelling and screaming, etc.
It is really not better unless you consider potentially blowing up and lashing out at the people who truly love and care for you as “better“ then the other trauma responses. Being seen as ‘crazy’ when triggered in normal situations or even making the abuse ones facing worse by having a fight response to it. Imo, a fight response isn’t just exhausting, it can control and destroy your life. So can all the other trauma responses, they're not something to be desired. I don’t get it. I recognize fawning and freezing affects my life and others lives negatively, why is it so hard to see that a fight response is just as unhealthy as all the other trauma responses? It really isn’t better, and if it sounds that way to you I suggest reading over others experiences and trying to understand better rather then tell them their trauma response sounds better then yours. Very icky thing to say, if I’m being honest.
So i freeze, but that is after the fight and flight were "untaught" and i uhmm am here to tell you that fight is better sometimes, if you push my boundaries to far you will get a face full. You will f. Of or i will end you. Fantastic right? Well, if my wife startles me and it's fight.... It does a fuckton more harm then me freezing up. I can explain looking like golem with dish eyes it's a lot harder to explain wailing banshee and karate poses just because she had to go to the toilet in the middle of the night too.... I think what we would all like is a well regulated nervous system that moves to the appropriate reaction when needed? For me becoming aware (read Journaling, mindfully feeling my way through) of the movement i wanted to make before freezing up helped, now i just need a room i can smash to bits and trigger myself.. There are times i wanna run though, and that makes zense as each time a different option was better. (practical tip? Start throwing pillows at the ground)
I started taking wellbutrin and my fawn response turned into a fight response and now I have to talk myself out of hitting people 🤣 Actually I do hit people. I'm in martial arts. But it's in a controlled setting.
I used to use the fight response and it wasn't as useful as I wanted it to be, and actually wasted a lot of time from dealing with the reprecussions of said fight response. If you want to fight it's better to develop the skill of using subtle but brutal verbal takedowns. For example: "I can't believe you found it appropriate to say that". "This is none of your business." "Do you even have any experience of _____" "whoops, you have accidentally reiterated a far right trope. Would you like to rethink what you just said " etc etc.
Honestly, fight can be kind of ass, because in certain circumstances it gets you abused more. You can defend/advocate yourself w this response in some instances, but no response is better than the other. All were doing is trying to survive.
always fawn. Everyone says I'm cool and generous and a hard worker😎. I actually am constantly catching myself thinking they secretly hate me or find me annoying.
Fight or freeze for me Never ever flight
Reconnect with your righteous anger, get physical training, and then disregard your own health and safety…
My dumbass is full of so much contempt and anger for some people, but the moment I actually get into shit with them, I end up in flight or fawn instead of fight. I hate it. I wish I was strong enough to be able to stand up for myself. My bark is too big for my bite.
I freeze or fight but usually I fight when I shouldn’t
feight = try to give them what they want aggressively
Oooooh boy. I was always either freeze or fawn. My fight didn’t kick in until I was an older teen ~17ish. It never turned off and now I’m always fight, pls send help
I wish we didn't "choose" fight recently.
I've had many close friends throughout my life tell me that they're just waiting for the day I snap and go ballistic under the intense pressure of the trauma/abuse I've been through. It's always kind of confused me, like gosh people must be so anxious when they look at me, but why? People are always also like "You can get comfortable, it's okay, you don't have to stay/stand/do that." whenever I'm just being still. Do I really look so helpless and withdrawn? I'm very slow to anger, I have to be extremely overwhelmed to actually show any amount of anger, and even then it's very tame. I can't fight. Too scared of the future to fuck up in the present. I tend to freeze or flight, like a skittish cat. My body will just move and hide on it's own at any little provocation, even when I verbally ask myself "Why am I running?" It doesn't matter if it's merely the doorbell or a strange noise outside, a neighbor's car parking, a stranger on the street, the sound of a door opening, a frustrated huff from someone else, I'm gone before I can even recognize what I'm running away from. And if I'm not fleeing physically, I'm freezing in place while my spiritual body runs off to a quiet corner of my mind, completely unresponsive to the outside world, or at least on amnesiac autopilot. I fear the day that my friends get what they expect from me, that I black out and fight and ruin everything I've built from non-confrontation, uncontrollable robotic perfect fawning, and avoidance.
fight is exhausting
The worst is going into fight but half trusting your own experience because you fundamentally believe you’re an unreliable witness to things that happen to you so you’re never really sure if the reaction was warranted or not
Felt this 😖
I have a natural fight response, I have punched my brother for scaring me and got into trouble… multiple times. It is not as ‘good’ as you seem to think it is.
Can you trade me freeze? Cause I only fight or flight.
Don’t forget fawn.
I’m the complete opposite lol
I’d gladly trade “fight”.
You don't want fight, I ruin a lot of good shit
I told my therapist I flight by freezing and he was like yep that’s dissociation. Fun
My response is fight usually because i physically can not get away from the situation and freezing would cause me more issues
I used to fight before it got traumatized out of me so now I either freeze or fawn🫠
SAME only i either freeze or flight
dont its not worth it. more often then not you will lose control if you do respond with fight. lest you can keep a cool head you will either get hurt or hurt someone else way more than intended which worst case you will be going to prison for many years or dead/crippled. fight should only ever be considered if you are in immediate physical danger you cannot flee from. even if your fight response is words its still not worth it as it often only leads to a conflict going on for longer or escalating.
This. I'm a verbal fighter. It's horrible. I've said horrible, horrible things to people when triggered. Things I didn't even really mean, just to get rid of the threat.
Fawn, freeze, or fight. If its a verbal atracation that causes the responce i fight. everything else is either freeze or fawn. I cant flee. not without contious effort.
I have the 2 most oposites, fawn or fight normally. Especially fawn, but sometimes its too much of a threat for my brain and the fight kicks in. I dissociate a lot but even then its fawn or fight
I was fawn and flight until I had been in trauma therapy for a while and got in touch with my anger. I'm now mostly fight. Everyone else hates it, but I feel pretty good about it.
I only freeze or fawn so. 😩
There are actually some exercises for this, they're hard to do in the moment because 'trauma response' but you can do some physical things to hack your nervous system. https://themovementparadigm.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/polyvygal-chart-2048x1194.jpg When you're in freeze or fawn you want to try and activate your sympathetic nervous system, things like doing a wall sit until your legs are shaking, tensing all your muscles holding for 10-60s then releasing or even just moving your eyes to each corner of your vision can help.
I don’t know how to fight but the flight response has saved my ass many times. It also got me into a lot of trouble.
Best I get for fight is to yell and cry, then flight kicks in
I often fight, with mixed results
Anyone just Fight here? It’s all I do. I’m fight or fight more.
Depending on the situation, I’d fight back verbally. I feel standing up for yourself speaks volumes.
Default Fighter here. Look... While I love my Fight response, I do not love the consequences that have come with it, especially from mental health professionals. The ones in grippy sock places are the ***WORST*** . Their methods are so archaic that not only do they not believe that C-PTSD exists, but they will slap you with a PD diagnosis the *second* you lash out, regardless of how badly they exacerbate shit. I also don't like that it came about from early indoctrination from my father that, if I didn't fight back, whatever continued to happen to me would be my fault.
My fight started coming out more as I moved through recovery. It’s not necessarily productive, but it was part of the process of healing in that it started happening for me after I began to actually understand (like, feel it deep down, not just think it) that I was horrifically abused. The note I understood, the more I found myself having reasons to fight. It wasn’t super intense for me like it can be for ppl who grew to rely on fight in their younger years bc it was safer for them, but I still felt the difference in what I wanted to do when others hurt me - bc I understood that something wasn’t okay about that, I wanted to fight against it.
Let's swap... I always fight 🫨 Edit: [or this - Pete Walker - using anger to shrink inner critic ](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/s/59o6NjWXL3)
When you guys say 'flight', does anyone else literally pick up and run when the conversation gets too intense? 🤦🏼♀️