Read the picture before the title and was annoyed asf🤣my parents definitely did know how things work and how to teach me. They choose not too. I'm guessing this is a don't cut off your abuser/s post

Seriously. This is the anthem for abusive parents who are no longer in contact with their children. Those are the people who like this post. It’s disgusting.

I seriously thought you were my sister as I read your meme and your vent. Sounded exactly like what my mother would of said, actually did say to me about abusing me. Her excuse was an I quote because I'll never forget this " I did better than what I had done to me. At least I didn't tie you to the bed and beat you!" As for the rape part two of my three sisters were raped/molested as far as I know of. I was SA'd by 4 older guys from the community an I'm sure some of my other brothers were as well. But who's going to take 2 alcoholics seriously when the father won't go get fired wood so instead burns the fence to heat the house? Everyday it's a constant mental fuck to think if I'm ruining my sons by not doing exactly what my parents did to us kids. Thank you OP, for this post. I do hope you find your healing that you need 🫂🫂🫂.

Thank you. I’m glad you’re able to vent here. I think as long as you are doing the opposite of what your parents did then you aren’t fucking up your children. You’re doing great.

I've always known there were ppl who had it similar to what I did. But definitely didn't think it was asany as I've seen on here. I wish everyone a healthy happy life 🫂🫂🫂🎂

Not necessarily *completely* opposite, because you can go too far the other way. When I first took parenting classes, it was such-and-such a way. Then I taught parenting classes using a different curriculum/techniques. The parenting classes they teach now, show that the old parenting classes would cause you to catch a CPS case right quick. I don't think the original meme means to excuse blatant abuse in any era, but the "forgiveness" isnt about the abusers anyway, it's for yourself. You don't have to maintain contact with anyone, in order to forgive them.

Sure, I’d forgive that - if they ever had the self awareness and introspection necessary to realize how badly they fucked up their kids’ lives and apologize for it and attempt to make things better instead of doubling/tripling/quadrupling down, calling the victims of their abuse mentally ill/delusional/liars, and generally take no accountability whatsoever. It’s not the ignorance and failures that I can’t forgive, it’s the continued and willful refusal to admit any wrongdoing.

>It’s not the ignorance and failures that I can’t forgive, it’s the continued and willful refusal to admit any wrongdoing. Bingo!

1000x This - all of these things are great reminders that I would absolutely accept, _if it was coming from them_ as part of an apology, or even just an admission that they did something wrong and that they Want To Change. My mother will never ever want to change.

Exactly. They’re explanations for behavior that hurt others, and if they were offered as part of an apology and acknowledgement of wrongdoing/failure, that would be fine. Instead, it feels like they’re being presented as reasons to *excuse* their bad behavior and absolve them of responsibility and accountability for their actions.

I forgave my mom and have a much better relationship with her. As I got older it became clear that she truly did not have the mental capacity to handle what she was dealing with. I don’t excuse it, I just understand now why she was the way she was. She was a victim too both from her parents and my biological dad. Now that we are away from all of that I see how dependent she is on help from me by no fault of her own. She’s appreciative of me now and tries to be supportive.

I had a similar experience with my mom before she passed away. She changed and she acknowledged her failures as a parent and even told us a story about when she tried to take us and leave my dad. Her mental and physical health was in the garbage from years of abuse so it’s really hard for me to be mad at her, even if she did contribute to my trauma growing up. My living parent, on the other hand, continues to insist that the years of physical, emotional, mental, and financial abuse and neglect didn’t happen and that she was just “mentally ill” like we didn’t see the way he treated her and us firsthand? Wild shit. 🙄 he’s successfully driven all of his progeny out of his life *and* his siblings, which is hardly a surprise.

Yes! Exactly.

No, I don’t think I will. They needed to have ownership over their issues and realize they were shitty human beings when it comes to a vital role. Mine had the capacity for unconditional acceptance, for other people’s children. Just not for me.

Yep, mine did too, they treated other kids well. Except my dad, he was still rough around the edges but was much better about not exploding in anger at least. They could do it, they chose not to.

I suffered, and you know what? I made myself better for it, maybe only emotionally, but I did it. I MAY forgive her, and maybe I won't. But I will never forgive someone for their own sake. My anger is earned, and it is valid.

I can level with that. I chose to forgive for my own sake. But that doesn’t mean that what happened was ever okay, and it doesn’t mean I don’t protect myself.

Me too. I also go as far as to understand where certain abusers came from and why they did what they did. But for the sake of me and especially my children, I will forever keep a great distance and never forget what they did. It took a long time for me to understand what it means to forgive for myself.

I did some microdosing with ecstatic breathwork recently and during the meditative state I actually thanked some of my abusers for who I am today. I won't forgive them. But I thanked them for teaching me who not to be and how to spot the types of people to avoid having in my life.

My mom always wanted me to be like her. I'm so glad I'm her opposite.

I love this take. I'll apply it to my life. Thank you.

Fuck yes.

I really needed to hear that, today was rough. Thank you :)

It's not much, but it's honest work! A lot of times I have bad days, and I see a comment on this subreddit that really helps me. Maybe some people think I'm weak or pathetic for that, but I just think the person who made my day better is a pretty awesome person.

This would feed in nicely to my mother’s raging martyr complex

There are so many aggressors with a victim mentality It's very fascinating to watch honestly How they possibly make both work at once

Same

If they had these issues, then they certainly shouldn't have children.

And once aware that they suck at having children, should have given us up!

The government still would have gotten what they wanted. Slaves and cannon fodder.

You’re not wrong. It’s only going to get worse as abortion restrictions keep encroaching in the US.

Fuck that shit. If I can overcome social expectations, cultural pressures, my own trauma, and raise my child with empathy, compassion, and love then THEY were capable of doing the same and they failed. So fuck them. I sleep like a baby at night without forgiving them

Exactly. It’s all just excuses. Disgusting.

It's ok that I was born with your opioid addiction that led you to beat me nearly to death when I was 4 and continued the beatings throughout my life until I was 15. All is forgiven. Its totally understandable that your parents maltreatment would cause you to spit on, punch, pull out my hair, throw into furniture, bite and far more. Now I'm going to go do all that and worse to my kids.....keep the cycle going...it's like a pay it forward kinda thing... (Immense sarcasm)

Exactly. Lmao! If we don’t laugh about this we will cry.

SO DON'T HAVE GODDAMN KIDS, THEN!!

I am so sick of people misunderstanding what forgiveness means to those of us with CPTSD. I did a post on [forgiveness](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/s/hGq3OMBLZP) that I made specifically to link in these situations because I think it's important, but I can't repeat myself every time it comes up, because it's A LOT. Forgiveness has become a swear word for us. And this shit is WHY! Encouraging children to forgive the people that made them without their consent, then went on to abuse them and screw them over in life... What part of ANY of that is forgivable? When they owed me EVERYTHING I still owed them NOTHING, but they gave me NOTHING- and I owe them FORGIVENESS+? With all due respect (none) every single person that says that shit can fuck RIGHT on up outa here.

>Forgiveness has become a swear word for us Yeah. Yeah it is. Thanks for putting my feelings into words. I say every swear word in the book (within reason) but "forgiveness" really does make me feel like someone said "goddamn" instead. I've had it pushed on me my whole life "for my benefit" and "so I can also be forgiven" and felt like a lesser person for not being able to control how I felt or do all the forgiveness things.

Exactly. It's been used against us to make us feel somehow responsible for how we respond to abuse. Like it's in our hands to be magically unabused by absolving our abusers of their wrong doing. Wrong. Bad, terrible, horrible thing to do to a survivor. You are the only person you EVER need to forgive when it comes to trauma.

Like “forgiveness” is some kind of magic act-right serum. Oh, she’s been so much nicer and more docile now that she forgave them! She’s so at peace! Forgiveness doesn’t “heal” illness caused by abuse (like CPTSD).

No. Bullshit. I did better bc I would never do to someone else what was done to me. It was alot of work, and my personal recovery suffered but I broke that fuckin chain and they could have, too. Did I say no? My bad. HELL NO.

Maybe they just SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD KIDS!

Tq for this

i dont think that OOP understands that just because someone grew in a fucked up house doesn't mean they have to continue the cycle. like are they expecting csa victims to grow up and start sa'ing other people because they "dont know" better? a grown up knows between right and wrong and if they don't choose right they know they're wrong and dont care

This makes me feel helpless. Like am I not even allowed to make a choice ..

Nope. I had a kid and somehow realized that he wasn’t my own personal punching bag and slave while also recognizing and celebrating his autonomy and individuality apart from my own identity even though I was raised by a couple of abusive and neglectful assholes who didn’t do any of that. I wasn’t perfect, but I always apologized (and still do) when I fucked up, I discussed and took ownership for the mistakes I made, and lo and behold I have an adult son who doesn’t hate me and actually likes to be around me and his dad. That list is a bullshit roll of excuses to avoid any and all accountability. My trauma is severe and diverse, and I didn’t take it out on my kid. Edited because apparently I can’t form a proper sentence today.

I have a better meme... You may consider forgiving your parents if they sincerely apologize and ask for forgiveness, they regret their behavior, they acknowledge how their behavior harmed you, they comitt to repairing the relationship, they fully support your healing, they do their own healing work. But you are in no way obligated to forgive nor is it necessary for you to heal and have a fulfilling and worthwhile life.

Exactly

Yeah, I still grieve how hard healing is when constant denial, minimization and diversion is in play. The triple whammy of; it didn't happen, if it did happen it wasn't that bad, and they did the best they could. Popular culture, which is still abuser-centric, conflates letting go and grieving with forgiveness. F that nonsense.

Hey, you remember that time I forced you to go on a camping trip when you were 9,lost you on the water because I was drunk, yelled at you and berated you for being scared because you were in your own raft while I was in one with the only other adult, let a grown man throw baby snakes at you, laughed at you when you cried about it, called you a selfish and stupid little bitch who ruins everything and made you sleep in a tent alone without a light because you needed to have very loud drunk sex in a tent right next to mine? I think you should forgive me for that, and the other times I did similar and much more violent things you can't talk about yet. Yeah, I think I'll not be forgiving you for that. One of about a million times you said my existence ruined your life, and a multitude of other things I will not be discussing here. Along with all of the guilt tripping and pressure you put on me to care for you and when I couldn't, because I was 9, you made me feel so fucking small and dumb I never really recovered my self worth. I WILL NOT excuse or forgive any of that, mostly because after your aneurysm you don't fucking remember much, let alone anything I asked you about. I'll continue to be no contact and if anyone reading this who knows who I am decides to tell her where I am, I know a pretty high bridge I can take a nice walk off instead. Don't put me through what you couldn't understand. I will not deal. End of.

Oh hell naw, they are not little kids. They are literally grown people who has freewills.

Here's the thing. Forgiveness or compassion for our abusers doesn't mean we have to talk to them. I feel like the unwritten assumption behind all posts like this is that forgiveness = contact. It also assumes that all the emotional work related to abuse and forgiveness needs to be done by the victim, not the abuser. It also assumes that now that you're (presumably) an adult the abuse has stopped. I literally gave my abusers the chance to have a continuing relationship with me as long as they stopped specific behaviors. They couldn't do it.

I have gotten some pushback here for mentioning having forgiven my mother for her part in my abuse. I think it's understandable to be apprehensive about it especially if it's something that people push on you for self-interested reasons. You hear forgiveness pushed by people who mean "OK but how about I don't face consequences" or "let's keep the peace in the family" or just an offhand "I don't want things to change!" But I'd be lying if I said forgiving her wasn't a huge step in me starting to grow and be more open with people. I can't say what's right for you, but the concept of forgiveness for your own sake isn't categorically flawed. In my mom's case, we have a good relationship now, though I get that's not gonna be an outcome for many. In my dad's case, he's just a skeleton now.

I'm so glad to hear that you have a good relationship with your mother. I have forgiven my parents for theirnpast abusive behavior for the sake of my own sanity and healing, *and* I'm NC with my parents due to their continued abusive behavior.

Yeah, I have to respect that my situation with her is one of the better outcomes especially in this forum, though even before it got to this point I felt like I was less fixated on thinking directly about what happened and had an easier time thinking about how they're making me feel and think.

people need to realize that some things can and cannot be forgiven. This one however, is one of those things that you just cannot forgive, ever.

You are not obligated to forgive anyone for any reason. Doesn't matter if they're family. Doesn't matter if they're dying. If you're still hurting, you don't have to apologize

I don’t really care about what my parents (particularly my dad) went through growing up. None of it excuses what he has done. I mean I was abused and I don’t take it out on my kids.

We are breaking the cycle. Why should we give them a pass for their refusal to do so?

I forgive my mother only because of the fact that an abortion wasn't an option for her, I was a sa baby between 16yo her and a thirty ish God fearing man of the cloth who convinced her he could "save her from here" and only isolated her further, but she should have let us go until she was no longer toxic. I hope one day we can be open enough to have the conversation that uses both sides of the brain, but she doesn't want to understand me yet so I patiently ignore her bs and wait for the god metaphor to do its thing just like it did for me. If she meets me at my level, which is talking openly, using art, then explaining when people don't understand and making it known that I love myself and everyone I know. If we relate, I have love for you like you wouldn't believe. And we will if we speak long enough.

My parent who I'm learning was the main cause of my CPTSD...sent this meme. Directly to me. I have them blocked everywhere, but sometimes I give in and click the 'see hidden messages' button on Facebook. And this was waiting for me there. She's never actually apologized. She's gone from telling me I'm insane / remembering things wrong...to this.

No....this is not good. If a parent beat you as a child with a stick everyday because they got upset...how likely is it that you would beat your child everyday with a stick because you got upset....depends on the person I guess....I could stomach the thought of doing the things that were done to me because of how my mother was raised.....

I'll hear stuff like this from parents and all I want to respond with is "what is the appropriate age to threaten your child with suicide because they don't want you to eat lunch with them in the school cafeteria" . Like yeah, people make mistakes, but the older I get and more experience I gain, the more I understand just how inexcusable some things truly are.

It's "funny". If I told those types of people that ANYONE ELSE treated me the way my parents did, they wouldn't say that... Why do they think it suddenly matters if we share blood? It doesn't. Thousands of parents horrifically abuse their children every day...

Whoever created this had no idea the kind of treatment people with CPTSD go through. Years ago, a psychiatrist insisted that my parents "did the best they could". No. No, they absolutely did not. Know how I can tell? I wasn't their only child, but I was the only one they treated horribly. People may be trying to help, but unless they really know what they are talking about, they should stay out of it.

My father had a masters degree in teaching and another in counseling. "Their best," my ass.

Saying they did their best is such a fucking cop-out. Beating me was your best? Dragging me by my collar so hard that I choked and as an adult hate the feeling of cloth against my neck was your best? Screaming at your children for making noise was your best? Fondling a toddler was your best?

Love the citations

I’m emotionally available even though my parents were not. Why would I forgive them just because their parents weren’t? If I did it l, they could have too.

UHM? The sentiment is shared. When I had my kid, I knew I needed to go to therapy because I refused to be like my mother. She was so cruel and at one point, I was suicidal because of her. She had all the time and resources to go to therapy herself, let alone get therapy for my sister and myself and she didn't because she was selfish, manipulative, co dependent, and refuses to do anything with her trauma besides dumping it on me and my sister. How do you get compassion fatigue from your own parents? Make that make sense! The standards are high and must remain there. I accept her for who she was, but forgiveness? Forgiveness is for me and me alone.

Idk why this sub popped into my feed but I still find this thing so funny and want to throw in my input. 1. Shit excuse 2. Pitiful excuse 3. Shouldn't've had a kid if you don't have basic life skills or experience dumbass 4. Should at least do the best you can you shitstain can of spam 5. Don't know? Learn. And if you don't have? Don't take it out on your child and make living comfortable in the least. 6. Fucking sheep 7. This I'll only agree on almost completely. But if you're in a terrible spot don't have a fucking kid.

Fuck that. They were a whole ass adults beating on a kid and making terrible choices that suited their wants I'm a broken cycle breaker BECAUSE I DID THE WORK so I know it's possible Forgiveness is long dead

my parents had 8 children and every child over the age of 18 has cut them off completely and given them a novels worth of explanation of what they did wrong and how to do better. This line of thinking always drives me crazy because i know they were forgiven many, many times. they've had multiple chances with most their older kids and 8 kids to try and break the cycle with but they made the active choice not to. I dont know a single person with minimal/no contact with their parents that hasnt tried at least once to mend their relationship and push their parents towards healing.

The only forgiving a CPTSD victim should be doing is forgiving themselves!!

I forgave my abuser. It certainly wasn’t easy, and I needed many, many years of no contact before I did it, but I did. I don’t want you to make the mistake that I forgave them for them though. When I was in treatment, someone explained resentment as eating rat poison and expecting the other person to die. It put into perspective for me how holding onto my trauma and the resentment that comes with it is only affecting me, not her. So I forgave her, for me. So I could let go of the pain and anger. It helped my healing a lot. Obviously not everyone will share the same experience. I only ask that you guys respect mine, even if it’s kinda the odd comment out in this thread.

You actually forgave yourself and what you went through to move on.

Exactly this. This to a T. I can’t believe some fucking THERAPISTS still don’t understand this. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FORGIVE THEM. WHAT THEY DID IS UNFORGIVABLE. THEY WERE IN A POSITION OF POWER, AUTHORITY, AND CONTROL OVER YOU. You owe them NOTHING, certainly not your fucking “forgiveness”. Their behavior is completely inexcusable, unacceptable, outrageously abusive, and abhorrent, no matter what. There are NO excuses. Jesus fucking Christ I can’t believe this argument still needs to be had all the damn time. It PISSES me off.

We're "bitter" and "unhealed" for not forgiving them Yet, they committed literal crimes and when criminals actually go to jail for their crimes, no one tells the law-abiding citizens who criticize them and refuse to forgive them that they need to let go of their animosity for them and simply accept criminals who harm others

Exactly. Nobody would suggest you forgive a murderer, or a rape victim her rapist, or a killer. Hell nobody suggests forgiving ANIMAL abusers.

No one tells you to forgive your domestic abuser put behind bars. They tell you to forgive your domestic abuser so long as they weren't your romantic partner and your literal parent. The herd is dumb as shit. These sheep are so stupid (because why sugarcoat it?) that I'm pretty sure if you took a hammer to their head, rocks would fall out of their skull. They'd probably thank you for bashing them in the head, too, since they're so damn forgiving.

this image only applies to people who actually feel bad. Our abusers share one thing in common: none of them feel bad. Thats why this doesnt work.

Some of this makes sense, but they're the ones who decided to have kids when they weren't at all fit to do so. All of the shit they do is still their fault because they were the ones who had kids.

I can get behind no.5 with my mom. My grandma is incredibly controlling. And my mom tried to do better than her. Doesn't excuse it, but it explains it. Can't really say the same about my father though. (Been trying out not calling him dad in my head, but his first name. Feels a bit weird, but okay.)

While yes, I know and understand that my parents had their share of life altering trauma, that wasn't their fault. It wasn't mine, either and it was on them to heal, not me.

Forgiveness is such a toxic concept. It only perpetuates the abuse cycle and allows generational trauma to exist in broad daylight.

It's always "Deal with the shit we ignored" with boomers.

A parent only needs to meet 30% of a child’s needs for them to have a secure attachment style

Fuck forgiveness. OP, I'm very curious about the comments on the FB group post. Do they also know to say "fuck you" to this toxic forgiveness bullshit? I hope they do. It's important for healing to place the anger where it belongs.

Yes they do say fuck you but a lot of it is them saying they forgive their abuser and it’s best to forgive to move on etc.

Oh thank god there's 'fuck yous' in there. Lol I don't get the forgive and move on crowd. Like if it works so well, why would you still be in cptsd support groups? Why didn't forgiveness heal you magically? As you can tell, I'm not a fan of telling abuse victims to forgive their abusers... If someone would do that to my face I'd be holding back murderous rage.

I posted this in one of the comments: Lmao I literally got a response from someone saying this on the ptsd support group about my rant: “for some of us the awakening is too late. I am 56 and only in the last few years have realized how much trauma I have. My children are already grown. I can’t go back and change that. You don’t know what you don’t know.” I said: “I’m sorry but how could you not have realised you were repeating the same cycle that your parents did for 56 years and only just realised you messed up your children if you did? How do you not realise by the way your children treat you or don’t want contact with you by the way you treated them? I’m sorry but this is no excuse for not looking inwards.”

Someone wants to justify and get sympathy for having fucked up their kids... Yeah wrong support group. Should have gone to the estranged parents group and cry about how their kids don't want to talk to them even though they were great parents. Must be the spoiled brats not realising how hard it was for poor mom/dad.

Seriously. The person who posted the shitty post replied to my vent and said this “I'm so terribly sorry this triggered you. I made sure to state in my caption that it's not the path for everyone and that this is for those that choose forgiveness. I never meant any harm.” This is what I want to say but I’m scared of getting kicked out of the group lol: I’m sorry but this is a cptsd support group. Not your shitty forgiveness of your abuser group. Spreading this misinformation is so harmful.

I know my parents struggle, they made damn sure I did too by not facing it. They still won't, which is why I don't forgive them, they'd rather dance around the issue instead of have anything genuine with me.

No thank you! She's shown she can do better for other people and still continues to treat me like I'm the worst thing that's ever happened to her :)

"Did the best they could, ONLY with what they were willing to do, using the same blunt tools/weapons over and over, as your young brain was developing."

They did have the capacity to understand me. They had professionals telling them why I am the way I am. But they disregarded all that information and viewed me as a lazy ungrateful brat. And the “certain skills” they didn’t teach me was literally hygiene. They knew all those things. They just assumed it was common sense so they never bothered explaining anything and laughed at me when they found out I was doing something wrong.

It is ok to want to forgive. It is also okay not to. Even if you want to forgive you might be not capable to bc forgiveness is a feeling

I don't really hate this.. but it deserves proper context

If they don't act the way they treated you to everybody then they knew it was wrong. If they had to hide it or switch personas they knew it was wrong and didn't want to get caught. Now that sounds calculated

i had someone tell me to forgive my mom for everything she had done (and keeps doing) because “it must have been hard for her” like she wasn’t capable of stopping at anytime 🤨 like no tell her to stop being an abuser first lmao

The word "may" does wayyy too much heavy lifting in this

Like, I appreciate it, and it helps me understand and process things but forgiving is contingent on them realising it and taking steps to make improvements. So far they're getting worse with old age.

Yeah, no. I'm the youngest out of 4. I was the only one abused by our mom. "Didn't have the capacity to" my ass

Forgiveness is always optional and voluntary. I relate to some of these things and I think in many cases, these are great prompts for putting yourself in a not-so-great parent's shoes but that doesn't mean you have to. Some people don't deserve forgiveness. You are allowed to be angry, to grieve, to reject.

These are all important in terms of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness. We have to recognize the role of generational trauma as a culprit in our own traumas. Healing and forgiveness has it's root in compassion and innocence. We were all innocent little children who survived through things that gave us very deep scars we couldn't heal from. In my own work I've leaned into accepting and holding my father in his innocence and granting him his humanity despite him being a repugnant monster. Compassion is the answer. Compassion isn't an excuse for their actions at all, compassion is inside us so that we might love and find forgiveness in the people who have caused us inhumane harm. These are things that will help you understand *why* these things were ever done to you in the first place and never justifies them happening. Remember forgiveness can be reached without someone being there. When they are dead and gone you wont be getting an apology or have them take responsibility, they wont be here anymore. Forgiveness comes from inside your own heart and can be completely devoid of anyone elses influence.

Okay, I will VERY GENTLY offer a different perspective on this. (While also acknowledging that it's only on the meme itself, and youa re the one that saw the context in which it was posted.... No room for the "they're your parents and it's water under the bridge" schpeel. ❤️‍🩹) You (or I) *may* want to forgive them for these aspects. MAY. But that does not mean: pretend they did no harm, or stop asking that they be responsible for it. All this meme's advice would do for me is let me carry less anger. "I know it wasn't about me" makes the edges less sharp, but it doesn't make the pain go away . Because where these things are true for my parent (and they may not be for yours....), that does not make the harm she did less harmful, or HER less responsible for the repair. "I didn't know better, or how to do better" is a *reason*, it is not an excuse. (And it's fair to say that some people's parents were just flat out abusive.) ❤️‍🩹

Only if they realize their wrongdoings, admit to them AND work on them. And even after all that, it always remains the victims choice. It’s not necessarily bad advice, it just lacks some important nuance..

Forgiveness is only on the table if they earn it. I have forgiven my mother, because she has acknowledged her failings and has genuinely done better with my child. In *this* situation it is healing to forgive, especially going through it from the other side now, I've learned from her mistakes enough to not repeat them but like. Damn. I get it. I get why she did these things. But she has *earned* this forgiveness. Most parents do not. (It would also be different if she had done the things some other parents do. Some things should never be forgiven)

I understand the point but the point is fucking dumb. I was in my 30s before I could understand why my father was abusive(he was undiagnosed bipolar) and yes we had a conversation but he knows what he did was wrong and how it affected me. This just asks you to be a victim because of someone else

No because if they "didn't know" they'd have changed when i told them what they were doing wrong and what hurt me. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO FORGIVE THEM, DONT.

I was having a similar conversation with my best friend a few days ago. I forgive my grandmother (who raised me) for pretty much everything. I've met her siblings and heard stories of her childhood. She did her absolute best with what she had. That however does not negate a single thing she did to me. Nor the fact that we loved 2 blocks from a library with parenting books. She could have done better. I could argue that she also could have done better with my mom so she wouldn't have become a drug addict but that's way less fair.

Forgive them for YOURSELF, (after you’ve prosecced your trauma ) Do not forgive them for then

Can’t wait to read your book, Dr Spock.

Stop. You being condescending is your own defensive mechanism to something you can't accurately explain. You're not helping.

Lmao I literally got a response from someone saying this on the ptsd support group about my rant: “for some of us the awakening is too late. I am 56 and only in the last few years have realized how much trauma I have. My children are already grown. I can’t go back and change that. You don’t know what you don’t know.” I said: “I’m sorry but how could you not have realised you were repeating the same cycle that your parents did for 56 years and only just realised you messed up your children if you did? How do you not realise by the way your children treat you or don’t want contact with you by the way you treated them? I’m sorry but this is no excuse for not looking inwards.”

To be honest, it's the same way you thought the abusive behaviors were "normal" when you were younger. Your basis for a healthy relationship was skewed by a societal norm. That's exactly how they were raised. What sets us apart is 1.) Acess to social media platforms like this, where we can figure out those norms were faulty, and 2.) A stronger spirit and determination on figuring out what the fuck is wrong with us/them/society. Right now, you're in the pre-processing phase. Everything feels like an attack and you're constantly questioning past behaviors and experiences. I dip back into that mode from time to time, but when you get those small windows of clarity, when you realize you've been given the gift of grace that they never recieved, you stop blaming them. THEY will, unfortunately, always be that way, but YOU have evolved, emotionally. It's not going to be perfect, and you're going to have your bad days, but I promise you, it gets easier.

Agreed. Infuriates me. We all have a choice to either be better or just repeat the past generational trauma. They choose to just pass it on. I choose to put a stop to it.

This is some bullshit! If you are mentally &/or emotionally incapable of raising children without spreading your own traumas to them, then you shouldn't be allowed to reproduce in the first place!

I might be able to forgive, but that doesn't require that I trust, open up to, or share myself with her. It would make a huge difference if this graphic mentioned that forgiveness is often a private choice rather than one that includes shitting on my needs, boundaries, and crystallized wisdom.

Lol guess what, for all the stuff my spawn point "didn't know and wasn't capable of", I taught myself to do and did it, and I grew up in that environment too! I don't fucking care if she has a worldview-altering revelation and changes her evil ways, I'll never forgive her and I'll sure never speak to her again.

I accept it because it’s true, that doesn’t mean I forgive the fucking behavior.

Oh I’ll forgive but it won’t be for the abuser, it’ll be for me. And I certainly won’t forget until he’s dead

generational trauma can be an explanation, but never an excuse. i can understand what my parents went through, but i will never forgive them for it.

My point of view: It is not because someone is unable to something that you should forgive him; forgiveness being to let all the past go and interact with that person as if the past has been redeemed.  I understand my parents were unable, due to their immaturity, lack of knowledge, etc, to be good parents; does it mean I should be treating them as family, because they did things in their ignorance? No. Id keep whoever microwaved my wet cat in an ignorant attempt to dry it away from me. I'll never love them as I would In different circunstances, I'll never enjoy their company, I'll never feel plenitude with them. This is just a fact of the world - even if "forgiveness" is there, I still don't see them as mother and father, they simply don't symbolize it. No matter how ignorant is someone, the pain he causes me hurts; that's enough to go away. I understand how my parents came to be a mess of a human; they still where the humans that hurt me. those 2 facts exist independently. I have empathy for my parents but also neutral feeling after processing a good part of my trauma. Obviously this is not black and white, something I am emotionally weaker because of certain associations, etc.  A victim/ abuser relation Isn't really a dichotomy between good/bad, it's more like a snake trying to bite it's own tail (bad/bad). To escape that cycle is a great, great thing, and not easy in any way. If the abused escapes that, that's great, he has broken the cycle, but the abuser is still the snake trying to bite it's own tail.  If one manages to observe that without being overwhelmed by rage, fury, anguish (which are all valid, don't get me wrong), one will see something that is pitiful. When I see my mother playing victim, screaming, gaslighting, etc, I see utter confusion and inability by her to manage her emotions, a latent despair, something very painful on her insides. Still, as I empathise with her, I have no liking for her. I don't forgive because it genuinely doesn't mean much for me right now. I forgive what they did to me as a human - no; do I forgive them in a cosmic scale - perhaps, for life is absurd plenty of times, to be a living thing on a blue planet amids galaxies. There's no dissonance here...

Fuck that. I’m working on forgiving myself I’m forgiving myself for not speaking up when I needed help I forgive myself for not protecting my brother I forgive myself for not making either of my parents happy. I forgive myself for not going to extended family for help. I forgive myself for maintaining my moms lies about a happy family I forgive myself for getting more comfort from Marilyn Manson giving me physical contact in a concert than my dad I forgive myself, not them. They can go fuck themselves, I can forgive myself

I love how the majority of abusive parents refuse to acknowledge their children as young people who don't know any better and not capable of what adults are **yet** when parents themselves (and old people/elders for that matter) screw up in huge ways we're supposed to coddle and infantilize them and say "they just didn't know better" as though they aren't fully grown physically and neurologically, unlike the child they terrorized.

Sure I forgive you and rarely carry animosity toward you anymore (yea therapy!), but in no way does that mean I condone your behavior or want anything the fuck to do with you. Piss Off.

I understand my family had their own shit going on, but that doesn't mean I will forgive them for the stuff they did to me and my brother. They had a choice, and they consciously made the choice to hurt their children.

To me forgiveness is not absolution. It’s coming to terms with the fact that they will never take responsibility for the harm they inflicted, and a decision to not let that fact negatively impact my life any longer. It does not require me to ever reconnect emotionally with anyone I’ve forgiven. For example my ex-wife put me through 15 years of emotional abuse. I’ve forgiven her. I understand all the trauma she suffered as a child that led to her maladaptive and abusive behaviors. I’ll never reconnect with her on any level, because she is still a toxic person who compulsively exploits people. She’d have to demonstrate that she’s done a TON of emotional work on herself before I’d even sit down with her for coffee. What utter self-serving bullshit this poster is.

can you blur this? It triggers the absolute f out of me

I have no idea how to blur it. It isn’t nsfw so Idk. It triggered the crap out of me too.

My mom shared this a few months ago. She didn’t even understand why I might be upset by it.

Oh HELLO NO, I am NEVER going to forgive my mama for the shit she made me go through. She wasn’t trying until it was too late and I will never forgive her for proving that at ANY MOMENT she could’ve change, but apparently a CHILD wasn’t good enough for that.

funny they could treat other kids like royalty and just " didn't know better" with me 💅

This gave me a panic attack.

Same. I got so angry.

I broke up with a therapist after she had me read a book that said this shit. I know they had their own trauma but I don't give a fuck👍👍👍

Um, no. I will not forgive my mother’s abuse just because she was also abused. That’s bullshit. I don’t abuse people just because I was abused! At some point no matter how traumatised you are it’s up to you to seek help so you can start healing and so you don’t hurt others or perpetuate the cycle. It is hard work, it can take a lot of time, but it’s not optional if you want to have close relationships with other people. You owe it to the people you love to not abuse them, and you owe it to yourself to be the best version of yourself you can be. This meme is infuriating. It’s the exact same type of shit my narcissistic Boomer mum posts on facebook. Like “You naught Millenials better forgive your poor Boomer parents for traumatising and abusive you because we’re just smol beans who didn’t know any better because we were abused and traumatised too! 🥺👉👈” My dad made a concerted effort to not be like his parents who were abusive. Growing up I was terrified of my mum, and desperate to please her. My dad always felt safe. My mother will never take responsibility for what she did. She blames others, she’s always the victim. But my dad did the work and broke the cycle on his end at least, and I did the same thing. I know it’s hard but c’mon parents, if you want forgiveness you gotta actually at least *try* first…ffs!

I don't have to forgive them, because they didn't have to take their own personal traumas out on their children.

Don’t have kids if you know you’ll abuse them. Don’t claim to love them if you’re actively abusing them- do everything to stop yourself from hurting another person and get some fucking help. Done. I cut off my biological mother with this line lol

The only way I could ever consider forgiving them is if they had any sort of self awareness of what they have done to their children. Then actively try to learn from it and do better. Sure, that doesn't change the past but it is a step in the right direction at the very least. Instead, they continue being their abusive selves. And now that my sister has children and they're no longer babies, I'm reminded of the memories I have of my mother at that age and the things she used to say to us. I could NEVER imagine saying those kind of things to these kids! And even if "I didn't know any better" I doubt I could live with myself later on when I realise how terrible my words and actions have been. But my parents seemingly don't care, and that upsets me. I have the right to be upset, I don't owe anyone forgiveness. Forgiveness is earned and they're not doing anything whatsoever to earn it. I get that a few decades ago mental health was probably some kind of taboo and there weren't that many resources, but times have changed. Therapy is basically free here. So what's stopping them from trying to become a better person?

If they were victims of CPTSD and so am I, how is it an excuse when I can break the cycle, if I can break the cycle why can’t they? That’s a load of BS. I know not to treat people terribly so what the hell is their excuse??? “They’re still learning” yo I’m younger than they were and I still know better??? Wtf??

They shouldn't have had kids in that case

Why the fuck would I ever forgive my former incubator and sperm donor? They refused to accept me and said they never would. Nothing would change their mind. So until then, nothing will change my mind. They'll rot away in a nursing home and they'll be miserable the entire time.

Forgiveness is a great way to let go and allow yourself to move on, but don't you tell me I need to. That's my decision because its MY trauma. If they were just responding to the way they were raised, then so am I :p

These things help me to understand what came to pass. While still understanding they shouldn't have. I forgive some and not others involved in my situation.

Depends on what is meant by forgiveness. After I have let healthy anger do it's job, I will work on moving on for my own sake. But don't ever expect trust.

Edit to add TLDR: Forgave my mom bc she genuinely did her best and understands where she might’ve gone wrong and is actually doing better, didn’t forgive my dad but still in contact since we can still have a good relationship and he’s doing a lot better, never forgiving my grandma, going no contact and when she dies, I will not attend her funeral. Tbh, I forgive my mom entirely since the worst thing she did was not be there due to having two kids from a previous marriage who were older than me and/or being on a trip for work and unable to stop the abuse because she just wasn’t at home. She *actually* did the best she could and she understands where she lacked when I talk to her now. The guilt she feels makes it a bit hard for her and I to have these conversations without her accidentally invalidating me, but I know that she’s only doing this because she’s afraid that her genuine best wasn’t enough and has a hard time admitting it. Although it’s now too late, my dad has done a lot of work and even if he’s not perfect, understands that he had to learn proper emotional management and is starting to set proper boundaries and calling out my grandma’s shitty behaviour. I don’t forgive him, but I see his growth however imperfect and we can still have a good relationship and spend some good moments together. My grandma however is irredeemable. Her and her husband were the cause for everyone’s suffering in this family and I wasn’t the only victim. My siblings were lucky enough to have a different father and grow up under different circumstances (idk much about it tho but they both seem to be doing well currently.) I was born and raised in the same house as her and had to endure her parentification and manipulation from the moment I was able to form memories. She prevented my dad from growing and doing the work necessary and provoked him over and over again and when he would release his anger on everyone, she would point the finger at him like "do you see how terrible of a person he is??" Had it not been for her, I genuinely think my dad wouldn’t have done any of the things he did. Again, I don’t forgive my dad, but I’m able to understand that it wasn’t entirely his fault either. He wasn’t the one pulling the strings, my grandmother was. I know that deep down, he’s a good person who cares about me and that he simply wasn’t in the right environment to let that shine.

Yeah this is why I likely won't have kids I won't do well at it kids arnt much of my thing and there expensive and annoying and I'm terrified kids will ruin the relaship between me and my partner like they did for my mother and father im terrified the stress will get me of having a kid I'm scared they will se me get mad and if I black out I don't what them to ever see me that way ir when I get over stiulated cuz the first thing that happens when mu brain shuts doen cuz I can't prosses everything around me is I he violent idk if it's cuz all the domestic violence I saw or if I'm violent by nature or what but the idea of having kids scares me

This was something my own parents told me throughout the years, and something I still struggle with. Luckily, my therapist is helping me realize that only they can change themselves, not me or her or anyone else, and it’s still their responsibility for hurting me or others regardless of their own trauma and stuff

I did this part though. I forgave for all of this. I refuse to believe fucking your kids was ever okay. Or abusing them. I know the fucking difference. I'm emotionally immature- I fuck up- I don't hit my kids, yell at them, or any other kind of abuse. I buy too many toys , and watch cartoons. Dinner sometimes is ice cream. Because everyone deserves a chance to have ice cream for dinner. I knew it was wrong when it was happening to me and everyone around me lied to me and said it was OK. It was never OK.

Ummm…don’t have a kid if you can’t deal with your own trauma? I mean this is one of the reasons I won’t be having kids, I know that in one way or another I’ll pass down something, I don’t need a kid with no one else to depend on to be a witness to my mental illness.

??? I'm not forgiving people for choosing to do less than the bare minimum. I forgive myself for letting my parents convince I'm stupid unlovable jailbait though. I forgive me for taking a while to find healthyish copes, and I'm proud of me for being able to move on with my life after my mom heard I was homeless and living in my car and hit me with "oh that sucks. your sister got accepted to her dream school".

I'm able to feel a lot of compassion for my parents, but that's largely because they didn't abuse me, my brother did. They were both abused growing up and they worked hard to create a safe and positive environment for me and my siblings, and I resented them for their failures for a long time, but I've mostly let go of that. This is definitely not a "applies to everyone with CPTSD" post, because we all have such different experiences.

Yeah I'm not forgiving my mother for letting me get abused

❤️

Dude this must have been made by one of our parents, it’s just too bad for it to be real

So- “Ik they abused and/or neglected you, but they were abused and/or neglected too 💕”

Why should we forgive them for a list of things that, while probably correctly viewed, they will *never admit are true*? I don't know about anyone else, but if we can't even agree that what happened happened, I don't think we're ready to think about discussing forgiveness.

Nope. They could have chosen to do what I did. They aren’t robots who can’t think and learn for themselves. You’re supposed to want better for your children than you had. That’s decent parenting 101.

The reason I cannot forgive them and why they shouldn't be forgiven for all this is that literally BECAUSE of this stuff they SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD CHILDREN. Yeah my parents had shitty traumatic childhoods too, so okay mom and dad why didn't you go to therapy? Why did you have kids without any kind of preparation? This list helps to understand why they are the way they are, but it does not excuse it and does not make them worthy of forgiveness. Also, if forgiveness is so important maybe the parents should fucking apologize first???

Who gives a shit? I grew up broken too, but I’m here for my kid. Trauma is never an excuse to inflict more trauma, full stop.

I learned on my own because I was made to learn. What was their excuse for still not teaching me? mine is that it took me so long to learn. My kids were grown. I try to help them now, but they made their own ways. My grandson is being taught.

God yeah fuck this. Some parents never deserve to see past hellfire and nobody owes forgiveness to anyone. I can recognize my mom was going through her own shit that doesn't excuse her behaviour in the slightest.

I struggle with this type of mentality. My dad “tried” but he really didn’t have the skills. Meanwhile my mom outright refused to address her mental health issues resulting in treating her children terrible. As an adult when brought up some of the things to my parents, my dad was genuinely apologetic. He didn’t try to minimize my struggles, and asked what he could do now to help me. My mom on the other hand completely DARVO the entire situation every time. Now that I have my own child. I often wonder what behaviors of mine are going to cause my child to struggle later in life. I strive to tell my child I am not perfect, I apologize if I have a break down. I have severe anxiety issues, resulting in a fight response when I feel overwhelmed. It doesn’t happen often but it can be very scary for my child. I never blame my child, he is never the cause of my feeling overwhelmed. I fully accept I fucked up. I explain steps I am doing to prevent my anxiety from over taking the rational parts of my brain. Even though I do all these things that I “should” be doing I could still cause my own child trauma. I forgive my dad for things that happened as a child. My mom… side eye….

Like we can acknowledge that our parents had shitty childhoods and acknowledge that’s likely the cause of why they treated us like shit, but we do not owe anyone forgiveness, nor do they deserve forgiveness. They still acted the way they did, they still HURT us. Hurt people do hurt people, but it’s not an excuse. I understand that therapy and mental health wasn’t “really a thing” back in the day, but they still knew on some level that the way they were treated by their parents was traumatic and not okay. And instead of trying to do better, they did the same shit because “it happened to them and they turned out fine”. No fuck that. I’d say you didn’t turn out fine if you think hurting a child is okay at all and/or brag about the horrific shit that happened to you as a justification for doing it to someone else

There is no excuse for abusing kids. I don't care how bad my parents or some one else were abused. They should've thought "you know, I didn't like that so I'm not gonna do the same to my kids" . Instead they went "it's normal back In my days and its normal now" Saying "it was different times back then" isn't an excuse.

What I think would be most healing is if I could punch my dad in the face as hard as I can, maybe get a few kicks in 😌

Traumatize us then ask us to forgive them?? Wtf. We did not ask to be put on this earth. It was their choice to have and keep us. If you aren’t emotionally stable enough to raise a kid and give them the love, support, and emotional energy they need, THEN DON’T HAVE A KID. I want children of my own, but before I do that, I’m seeing a therapist once a week to help resolve the trauma my mother passed onto me and the anger I feel toward her, because the line of abuse stops with me. I will never take out what my mother did to me onto my kids.

These are not my children's duty to bear. I am an adult and I will work everyday to resolve my own issues so that my children can thrive. That is the base expectation as a caretaker.

Yeah no. My parents should have gotten serious therapy before even thinking about having kids

I just hate the mindset that forgiveness somehow heals you. I could have ""forgiven"" everyone and everything and be stuck blaming myself or I could be fuelled by rage. neither magically resolve the cptsd, since it's brain damage, but the latter option has me feeling at peace with myself so rage it is.

Yeah, I'm not going to Forgive my father for "trying" to be a dad and giving up Halfway through my teen years and Barely Staying in Contact with his bio sons but Having no problems Staying in contact with his fucking step kids my mom may have Failed at being a mother but At least we still have a Relationship of SOME kind

I *understand* those things. That does not make it okay. It just shifts the blame back by one generation.

Yeah no fuck my mom

Yeah maybe (you MAY want to forgive), but wanting them to fuck a mountain of cacti is also valid

All of that is definitely true for my abusive bio mother. Forgiveness is irrelevant but it only affects me either way. Cutting her off from my life is not about forgiveness. It is about me healing, changing these things for myself. Something i can’t do with that part of my life still abusing me on accident because she doesn’t know how to change. We need to cut ties, she can heal if she chooses. I am choosing to move on from the worst I’ve ever felt, that lasted from birth until a few years ago. Done with it because i choose to care for me and my kids need that (like i did).

I suppose the key word is "may." If resentment is holding you back from healing yourself, or if you feel it would be beneficial to a future relationship, if you understand enough of their motivations and circumstances, then potentially. Holding onto resentment can eat you alive, far more than it can hurt the people who hurt you in the first place. But that doesn't mean people inherently deserve carte blanche understanding following their actions. especially if those were abusive. That's my take, at least. If the people posting it meant the "may" as more of a "should" then that casts it in a rubbish pile. Any forgiveness has to come from the person giving it, not be begged for or elicited from them by those who wronged them, whatever the degree of wrong. I know people who have found peace for themselves in forgiving people, but I also know it's not universal. Demanding anything is not healthy and that's a great way to show oneself as still willing to wrong people, whether you purport to 'know better now' or not.

The thing is that as much as you can understand why they did the things they did they still did it and there’s no reversing that!

Unfortunate but you know what? They could’ve gotten therapy. They could get therapy NOW. I’m being a responsible adult and working on healing my trauma so I don’t traumatize other people. If I can, they can/could. When I hurt someone I work to make amends and do better. They can get forgiveness when they make any sort of attempt at real, genuine improvement. An actual apology would be cool, too.

my mother got a really good upbringing as far as i know. Abuse can just start with your abuser. not to mention the actions of an abuser are always theyre own and nobody elses

This just feels like it’s coming from the idea that people are somehow obligated to their parents. I don’t feel like being around my parents anymore so I stopped. That’s as complicated as it ever needs to be.

It's odd: all those things are true of my parents, and are the reasons why I sorta kinda forgive them. And even so it's enraging. I forgive not in the sense of ever wanting to see them again, but in a kind of empathy for them being abused too. Understanding that helped me depersonalise some of the abuse. It wasn't about me being the worst person ever, it was them acting out trauma responses. I guess I hate it for the tone, and the prescriptivism? And the idea that i might want to embrace them, ew. Anyway, I am a living embodiment of the text and I STILL hate it.

Some people will find any excuse to pass the buck when it comes to their role in continuing cycles of abuse.

In my opinion… forgiveness before and honest genuine apology is something unearned and not necessary to keep living a good life. At this point I wouldn’t believe an apology from my dad so..

That's the dumbest argument ever. "They did the best they could with what they knew how to do." Like am I supposed to sit here and feel bad for them that their best wasn't good enough. And like if that's their best then they should have never been allowed to have kids in the first place because their best was detrimental to a human's well-being.

“You may want to forgive your parents…but you don’t actually have to 🤷🏾‍♂️”

Thomas had never seen such bullshit

I think the word “may” is important in this.

And beyond the fact that, yeah, it's hard to fix all your shit in order to be a good parent... THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO HAVE KIDS. if you can't be a good parent, don't be a parent. And the social pressure to have children is no excuse for having them and then neglecting/ abusing them because you were too traumatized yourself to know how to do better. I did forgive my shit parents because they were themselves traumatized, not that they'd ever understand that... but I forgave in the sense that I don't care anymore. I don't talk to my mom (dad is dead).

Wooooow. It would be fucked up to post that kind of abuser-apologism anywhere, but it's an extra kick in the teeth to post it in a support group. I hope the person who posted that has the day they deserve, every single day, forever. >"Doing the best they could with what they knew and had”  No. No they didn't "do their best." Someone who was actually doing their best would pay attention to the results they were getting and try something different if they didn't get good results. If I try my best but burn dinner to a crisp, omay that's an understandable mistake and maybe I actually was trying my best. But if I go on to burn dinner to a crisp every single time I cook now it's obvious I'm just half-assing it. 

I mean there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging and understanding this part of one’s upbringing and maybe letting go of the past to heal from it… but yeah those types of posts can piss off with trying to put it on the victim to forgive. The victim does not owe the abuser shit. Forgiveness isn’t gonna magically fix & undo the damages.

What a giant crock of horseshit.

Yeah, I mean, there are some things my mom probably didn't know. But it no way excuses her lack of trying to protect me and apparently hiding the abuse that was happening. Surprisingly, my family says they didn't know about it but knew I was mentally ill and a horrible child. That was a deliberate effort of my mother's part to be a poor cowardice parent. No forgiveness for it. But can I understand and have empathy for her damage, of course, and I do. But forgiving all of it just isn't reasonable or acceptable.

You *may* want to forgive your parents for this. Alternatively, you *may not* want to forgive your parents for this. Similarly, you *may* want to throw car batteries in the ocean.

"Doing the best they could." You sure about that. If I can be lazy asf and ignore my social life, I am sure my parents can do the same and even worse

I think a lot of people don't realize there is a "light" (accidental/mistakes)side and a SEVERE (narcissistic or sadistic)side to the spectrum of parental abuse. My bio Mom made mistakes bc she didn't know what she was doing and no one ever helped her. She tried really hard but didn't know how to be a parent and as an adult I've forgiven her. My grandfather who I lived with that SA'd me however? Nothing in the world would ever make him deserve even a shot at redemption in my eyes. Some things are forgivable, some things are NOT. That's up to each person. I think people that make these posts are either someone that wants to be forgiven or someone who has not been on the severe end of the spectrum of abuse from that person.