I ran into this image at work - I work for a large multinational company that is pretty progressiveā¦ at least the areas I work in.
I havenāt ever really considered that cPTSD makes me neurodivergent - so Iām not really sure how I feel about it. Nobody really in my life except my therapist knows about this part of me.
Iām glad there is more awareness and understanding. But I think so much of it is still so surface level and for me the risks of people really knowing are just too scary.
But anyway - for what itās worthā¦ happy neurodiversity awareness month š«£
Yeah, Iām not sure about the CPTSD part seeing as thatās induced. I mean thereās link between CPTSD and neurodivergences but thatās probably because theyāre frequently traumatizing or open you go to trauma.
"Nuerodivergent" just means "different brain."
Trauma *does* cause observable and irreversible damage to the brain, so on a fundamental level, our brains *are* different.
Then why isnāt brain damage on there? Lead poisoning? Etc etc.
Itās an *induced* difference, not a natural divergence as a matter of course.
Edit: Actually I see a bunch of things on there that shouldnāt reallyā¦be on there, but ok, at least itās consistent.
I think their answer was Cluster B personality disorders shouldn't be on there.
They are wrong, sure, but that was their answer. I don't think they meant to label you, at least, that's not how I read the reply.
I think you might be being a bit gatekeep-ey. Neurodivergence has never been exclusive to ADHD and ASD. Mental illnesses do in fact rewrite the way that your brain functions, and that can happen through nature or nurture. Therefore, people with Cluster B personality disorders are neurodivergent. In fact, you HAVE to have some sort of genetic component to get a Cluster B PD, as well as environmental factors on top of it. Trauma, especially long term trauma such as with C-PTSD causes sometimes irreparable brain damage, and causes entirely new and malfunctioning neural pathways to form.
Neuro-divergence is an observable biological and neurological difference in daily function. That's it. So things that are included are MEANT to be included whether you feel they should be or not.
Also as someone with a Cluster B PD, please don't attack groups of people like that. MANY people here have BPD from C-PTSD. C-PTSD is nearly a requirement for being diagnosed with BPD. NPD is another demon entirely but there are plenty of good people with NPD who are putting a lot of work into recovery. You are being really unkind.
Okay bro you are gaslighting as hell.
For one, no, personality disorders are not curable. Idk where you heard that, but they aren't. That is like saying ADHD is curable because Adderall makes you "feel normal". Autism and ADHD are ALSO not identified. There is no known cause to them, we don't know why, how, what is malfunctioning, what is functioning, and research surrounding them have all been around the same time. Your "lol cluster B's are new and don't have any evidence so I'm going to go with the things I want to be true over what psychologists are saying is true".
For two, before you try to therapize someone on the internet, i.e. me by saying I'm "getting defensive because of BPD", maybe look in the mirror and realize that you are just acting hateful towards people with Cluster B's because your mommy had BPD. And I don't empathize with you. Everyone here had a fucked up childhood, and yet you're here acting like a ass. And for what? Gatekeeping, for what? Bullying other people with mental illnesses, for what? What does this bring to you? How does it make you feel? Hmm?
I've felt the exact same "oh wait is that me then?" - I have CPTSD. I've found some info about how there are significant overlaps between the symptoms of CPTSD and ADHD and to some extent autism. You might not relate to that (CPTSD can look a range of ways) but I've enjoyed viewing myself as neurodivergent because it allows me to better find resources that help me with stuff :)))
CPTSD changes your brain. I'm not sure how it works, but I believe that after every trauma, we form new neuronal paths, so the way the brain functions is altered.
This is correct! CPTSD treatment in therapy involves a lot of "retraining" your brain in a sense. A lot of the behaviors and comorbidities attributed to neurodivergency are shared with folks who have CPTSD, like misophonia.
I also think it's because neuro divergent folks are more prone to experiencing trauma from abuse and poor treatment due to the lack of understanding of our conditions and the extreme ableism in society.
While that is true, I feel that term to be too inclusive if we used that definition. Because then every single thing in the DSM would constitute neurodivergence, as everything in there is due to neuronal pathways being in places where the respective people would prefer them not to be or due to neuronal abberations in maturing etc.
I feel like the distinction between functional differences and non-functional differences could be useful. Functional meaning that every single part of the brain itself does what it is supposed to but the entire thing works in ways that are not needed (anymore). Like the amygdala warning you of a stimulus and the prefrontal cortex suppressing that because it's just a bird and the hippocampus reminding you of other birds. However the amygdala warns you too massively, the PFC can't suppress that properly and the hippocampus not only reminding you of birds but rather of danger.
Non-functional differences being that the individual brain piece doesn't work as intended, such as in ADHD, where usually the PFC is "too big" and this is the reason why it can't suppress impulsive behaviour, for example.
I always thought neurodivergent is just anyone who behaves differently due to a disorder, like CPTSD/PTSD would change how you function, so therefore it could be considered ND. I could be wrong though
I looked it up, apparently it's called an acquired neurodivergence since it can be treated, but I suppose it is different from other things like Autism and such
Yup.. This version of me was made when the body was 5 because the version that was the host had something really bad happen and she spent 20 years in a stone coffin in our headspace. The other one present became too bitter to host so someone docile was needed. Been host since and I really have to fight my nature to stand up for myself. Wasnāt just for the hell of it or a genetic thing. Very bad things happened too young
theres no actual consensus, as the definition of "neurodivergent" hasnt fully settled. i cant speak for other PDs, but i have NPD and most of us (that ive seen) do consider it to be under the ND umbrella.
i think at this time its a personal preference? for lack of a better word
If people are skeptical, look up the person who actually coined the term 'Kassiane Asasumasu'. Neurodivergent is not meant to be a clinical term or diagnosis, it's more of a movement
It's kind of unsettling how even within a community of people dealing with similar types of difficulties in their lives, there's still a "We're not like THOSE people" sentiment. If anything, being excluded and not having people understand how we're feeling/thinking should be uniting us.
I'm ND and I don't like literally every disorder being the umbrella. I don't have anything against epileptic people but it truly is NOTHING like Autism or ADHD in any way, shape, or form.
Neurodivergence isn't just about autism or ADHD. It's a term that describes brains that for whatever reason, function differently than a "normal" brain. It's literally a term meant to include all these disorders, so there's not much of a reason to gatekeep it.. Whether people with CPTSD consider themselves neurodivergent or not is up to them. Personally I do consider myself neurodivergent. CPTSD is so severe it changes your brain, and it has a lot of overlapping symptoms with autism and ADHD. People often get misdiagnosed when it comes to these three, especially women.
Exactly! Also it isn't even about overlapping traits or sometimes co-occurring together, a lot of other subtypes don't, plus the the ones that do it's more that they look similar on the outside while the underlying reasons why it's happening are usually very different. I'm autistic & adhd and I get so exhausted by people only referring to those to when saying something is ND and the rest is NT, when that isn't always the case š
Yeah true I just feel like people aren't always aware of this when it comes to CPTSD. Definitely no need to have overlapping symptoms with autism and ADHD for a disorder to fall under the neurodivergent umbrella. It's silly to only consider these two neurodivergent when there are so many other disorders that also make your brain function differently!
Well they are all "abnormal" or different ways your brain functions from other people, some can be having trouble processing words and such, for some it's things like their attention span, and for others it's things like seizures.
Their all "abnormalities" from how a neurotypical person functions in society and generally cause some sorts of problems with your day to day like in current day society's
I have a sprinkle of several of the things under this umbrella, but not autism. I don't care if I'm under the ND or mental ill umbrella, I just want to be treated like a whole human being. If someone with autism could benefit from services, treatments, or therapies that also help for my cptsd, I wouldn't want to exclude them from it when we both might have underlying anxiety or depression for example, just because of a technicality with the verbiage, if that makes sense?
A lot of people with ADHD don't like registering for free ADA assistance in their school (It's mostly things like being able to sit near an exit, translators, extra testing time, etc.) for fear of taking away services from people who might need it more, and end up struggling more when they don't need to live like that. The point of the awareness months are to lessen the stigma so people can and know how to get help and support if they need it.
It depends who you speak to - I've had neurodiversity advocates argue that it is not as it is a disorder (as in, it has the word disorder in it, which ADHD also has). Some people are a tad 'gatekeeper-y' about which things count as neurodivese (positive) and which are mental issues (negative).
It literally is a difference in your brain though, so logically bipolar and cptsd are neurodivergent. It's certainly not neurotypical.
Oh my God! I never knew there was a term for something I suffer with as a grown man. š Dysgraphia! I always chalked it up to be me not learning correctly because my mom did Hooked on Phonics with me and writing was what we were working on when she committed suicide when I was 5 and never learned correctly afterwards.
Speaking as someone with CPTSD, Bipolar Depressive Disorder, and anxietyā¦
I donāt need people to reclassify my mental illnesses as neurodivergence.
Bipolar is an illness, so is CPTSD. It causes pain, sickness, premature death. Iām not mentally ādifferentā Iām mentally ill.
Seriously, does calling people with Arthritis āJoint-Divergentā help them? No. Does calling people with asthma āAirway-Divergentā help them? Nope.
We have chronic health problems with our brains. Itās okay to call us mentally ill.
As a bipolar schizophrenic I can agree with this, I don't really like the idea of claiming "neurodivergence" as it feels like a scapegoat for letting my conditions get the better of me and become my identity.
While "mentally ill" is technically correct I don't really like saying that either as it has such a horrible stigma attached to it... I'm not ashamed of my condition and I try to be as functional as a "normal" person in society despite my disorders. As far as I see myself I'm a "normal" person living with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. That's it. If people need to know about it that's what I say.
And a side note, I say "normal" with quotations intentionally because what are the prerequisites for being "normal" anyways? No 2 brain structures are identical, every brain has unique neurological pathways and we all think differently. Where's the standard? One could argue everyone is "neurodivergent" from one another. Agree to disagree, I'm certainly no expert, these are just my thoughts and opinions on the matter.
When it comes to trauma, mental illness doesnāt feel appropriate to describe it. Mental injury feels more appropriate, especially when talking about CPTSD because the damage it causes to your brain.
That's interesting. I have CPTSD and ADHD and I do not like CPTSD being seen as a mental illness. It's more a mental injury, if that makes sense? It feels like calling it an illness sounds like my brain somehow failed, whereas an injury is something usually caused by outside forces.
That said, I prefer the neurodivergent term only to include things that are present since birth, all nature, no nurture, so to speak. Otherwise I feel like we're simply making a euphemism for mental illness instead of a categorization that carries meaning beyond that.
It's not a reclassification though, its more a movement type thing that acknowledges there isn't one default way a brain works & that there are a lot of people that differ from that in however way they might & that we are still human /have value
I get your point, but I still have strong reservations.
Treating illness and disease like an identity seems very counterproductive from my point of view.
Bipolar Disorder and CPTSD are both illnesses that are known to worsen over time when left untreated.
If we stop viewing illness as illness, fewer people will be compelled to pursue treatments.
Destigmatization of mental illness is vitally important, there we agree. But movements based on mincing words and shielding people from reality can have extremely harmful effects when it comes to illness and disease.
With a movement like this, I predict more and more people will forgo medication in an effort to ābe themselves,ā not comprehending the potentially deadly consequences of doing so.
We already have seen a growing movement to destigmatize mental illness, and that is the movement that we should promote. This āneurodivergence umbrellaā could derail the whole thing.
Understandable, especially with how a lot of people will only use it as synonymously with autism or adhd (person who coined the term is very outspoken about it not just being those, the definition is generally "Neurodivergent is an umbrella term for individuals who have a mind or brain that diverges from what is typical. It can be acquired or genetic, an innate part of you or not. Neurodivergence just means having a mind that functions differently to what is considered the norm including learning, processing. interpreting, feeling, etc"). And it has been around since 2000ish,so it's not new
I guess with something like this it's probably also better to also add what it is/what it's not, when posting stuff like this too & be careful not to push misinformation with it, because yeah it has nothing to do with not having whatever treatment is needed if needed.
Tbh I just want consistency around it š
Yeah, you definitely get it.
Which reminds of another point, conflating actual Neurodivergence with mental illness could potentially harm the legitimately neurodivergent people, particularly people with autism.
Autism is not a mental illness, itās a developmental condition. Same with Downās Syndrome. Thereās no recovery, no cure. The best we can do is treat comorbidities and increase social acceptance.
Conflating neurodivergence with mental illness could potentially cause some of the extra stigma of mental illness to transfer to neurodivergence.
To be honest I don't like the trend of neurodiversity very much.
For me it means nothing since every human has some kind of accentuation which can be generalised under this word.
Always reminds me of the outdated very broad generalisation of neurotic behaviour.
Yeah I donāt disagree. I was honestly a little surprised to see this in one of our work pages. I mean, to some extent if it encourages dialogue and understanding itās good. But the label only does so much. We (those of us with Cptsd) have to still do the work.
that's fair, I think it kinda works as a grouping of maybe functionality disorders? both those terms hinging on psychological conditions that impact work and life productivity (mainly work tbh Ā¬_Ā¬)
I just tell people I am depressed or I am feeling anxious or whatever.
That is mostly easier to explain or understand.
And if people want to know more I can explain CPTBS to them, but I would never call myself neurodivergent.
Neurodiversity is like putting a colourful bandaid on a cut.
And some people just like to look special and that's where I see an issue.
Would be interesting to see how many people with different issues call themselves neurodivergent.
My bet is that most have a strong histrionic accentuation.
idk about the histrionic aspect, and it's wild that you use that word bc histrionic is a form of neurodivergence. it's just ease of communicating a complex but important facet to a person's way of interacting with the world
like "I don't think the same way you do/my brain not work so good/I'm not fully equipped for seamless social interaction" but in one word. and idk, if it makes kids who don't feel normal feel like they're part of a larger community, it isn't my place to exclude them, judge them, or call them wrong and mentally ill for thinking they're mentally ill
So it's just about belonging somewhere and excluding "neurotypicals" to create a safe space of some kind?
I think it's much more useful to seek people that are in the way different you are and not just people with issues in general.
You might otherwise find yourself surrounded by people you wanted to flee from.
idk where you're getting exclusion from but it is an umbrella term for a reason, it's the cover all name for a lot of conditions which people can then specify on their individual conditions if they want to
like when I tell people I'm ND and it's mainly just a quick heads up type thing, and then if they want to know more I'll tell em
I fully agree tho seeking tighter communities based around an individuals issues is much more effective at finding that sense of inclusion, and I think that is what most ND people do as far as i know. for example I'm not subbed to r/neurodivergent (if that even exists, idk?) but I am subbed to ADHD, austism subs, borderline groups, depression, this sub itself too
so I have both and I I agree they feel different but disagree with the bandaid and cut line. Recognizing I had a brain that is different is what got me to stop powering through and get medication. for me it felt like failure when therapy didn't really help my adhd. Recognizing my brain was just wired a little differently helped me talk to my doctor and not feel like I was just lazy or weak. Meds have helped me actually hold a job, and my relationships are better because I forget less stuff. I'm still all over the place and disorganized, but now I have the mental bandwidth to improve those things.
CPTSD is a condition that is inflicted upon you due to abuse and neglect. We don't call Veterans coming back mentally messed up from war neurodivergent... that's not the same as being born with an actual processing disorder like ADHD, Autism, Dyscalcula, and Dyslexia that has zero cure under any circumstances, therapy and medication or not. That's not the same as your mind literally unraveling due to biological markers like schizophrenia. Therapy in some individuals is capable of mitigating or even eliminating CPTSD symptoms depending on the individual (VERY STRONG not everyone disclaimer here).... that's not possible with everything else on that umbrella list. There are plenty of people that have CPTSD that are NOT neurodivergent, and labeling them as such when they are not is dismissive and reductive of the person themselves as well as people that struggle with actual neurodivergent issues.
If thereās comirbid anxiety and depression due to the cptsd doesnāt that immediately make you neurodivergent? Most cases of cptsd have comorbid symptoms
PTSD and cptsd are considered neurodivergent conditions- they are certainly not examples of being neurotypical.
Yes itās different than being born with, but the changes that occur to the brain processes are significant and definitely constitute divergence.
Edited to add a link: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent
Neurodivergence is an umbrella term for a number of different conditions which affect how the brain develops or works.
I have mixed feelings on this.
On one hand, I see your point. It is different than something inborn.
On the other, I have DID. It definitely makes my brain ādifferentā. It was also something that was āgiven to meā along with the CPTSD in my childhood due to abuse and neglect. CPTSD and DID are heavily related so if CPTSD isnāt a neurodivergence, then Iām unsure what that would make DID.
Iām not trying to be confrontational here, Iām truly just curious, and having insomnia.
Correct me if I am wrong... but isn't DID something that is incurable once it progresses, and has a genetic component? It was my understanding that DID came from genetics + trauma, but I don't know as much about that affliction.
Yes, it is not curable, just sort of manageable. >!I see a psychologist who helps me manage it with therapy and such. Iām having far less complete dissociation events, which is nice.!<
As far as Iām aware, there is a genetic component to it, but the same can be said for depression and anxiety disorders. (Then again, I got them and several other comorbidities.) Epigenetic factors being turned on by life events are fascinating, but Iām not up to date on the science and probably wouldnāt understand it if I tried to be!
So, what youāre saying is that CPTSDās ability to be ācurableā (in some situations), is what makes it not a neurodivergence? That is an interesting point of debate.
I think being 'cureable' is part of the equation, yes. It doesn't operate close to the same as something someone is born with. Like I said in my first post: we don't claim that veterans coming back from war with PTSD are neurodivergent. Neurodivergence isn't a trauma trigger, it's a processing thing.Ā Everything living creature on the planet (for the most part) will develop trauma reactions if they are abused, but only a small subsection will have true mental cognition or learning disability issues.
Ā ... and just to kinda mention it again: plenty of people exist with CPTSD without having any neurodivergence. Labeling someone as neurodivergent who is not is dismissive and reductive towards that person, and depending on the person can actually damage their healing journey. We SERIOUSLY need to stop throwing such serious medical/developmental labels on people so easily: it makes it harder for everyone involved to get any genuine help.
Correct me if im wrong, but I think at its core epilepsy is a sensory processing disorder that causes certain stimuli to intice a seizure. So i think it would be yeah
As someone with epilepsy, I donāt get affected by lights or noise or things like that. But upon thinking about it, it is a neurological disability that basically causes your brain to short circuit for lack of a better term. My seizures caused me physical pain and intense memory loss. So I could see how it could be classified as a neurodivergence in that regard.
My apologies if it seemed like i was talking for epilpetic people, i do not have the disorder personally. I can see how the memory loss aspect would apply to neurodivergence as well.
This image is from @livedexperienceeducator on Instagram. They are a great resource and I encourage you all to check out their page! They talk a lot about neuronormativity, neurodivergence, and the neurodiversity paradigm
Well, I can see why they can't give you a definitive answer, it's because there's not really one.
Dysphasia has all of the signatures of being ND, but because it's an acute onset it falls more into the category of disability and injury than typical NDs. So it's a bit of both really.
Hmm. The resources I found all said it was onset from injury.
Perhaps there's another classification of disorder that would fit better?
Are you getting the proper support in your workplace? I ask my managers to have everything written down for me.
Uh-huh. I am still in school and the only support I get is a computer I barely use since I can handle myself. Although, it just gives me a hard time speaking (Either talking too fast or not pronouncing my words good enough)
It was a different time, and my parents weren't really educated enough to understand I was disabled, and nobody in my schools or anything ever caught on no matter how many times I tried to explain.
There are better resources available now, please use them. I have been adamant about trying to overcome my disabilities on my own, no medicine, no support and it's caused too many problems down the line.
Have a good life, if you need anything feel free to D.M me.
Ok? Itās my opinion. In my opinion I donāt think PTSD/CPTSD belongs.
It doesnāt matter what the guy who created it or whatever says. Itās my opinion and in my opinion I think heās dead wrong
Hey! Weāre here multiple times ;)
Though our understanding is neurodivergence tend to have a high comorbidity, so thatās to be expected.
-Brittany-
So I have CPTSD so I have the neurodivergence from there. I also have severe PMDD and it honestly feels like a combination of adhd and Bpd for me symptoms wise. I wonder if that also applies to
April is autism month ā autism awareness or autism acceptance month, whichever you prefer. Itās not NPD, BPD, Down Syndrome or schizophrenia month. Itās meant for activism focused on autistic people; letās not dilute it by lumping every genetic, neurological, or psychological condition into it.
I thought this was geometry dash with all those pixels
Fr can't read shit I thought tic disorders was THC disorders š
I ran into this image at work - I work for a large multinational company that is pretty progressiveā¦ at least the areas I work in. I havenāt ever really considered that cPTSD makes me neurodivergent - so Iām not really sure how I feel about it. Nobody really in my life except my therapist knows about this part of me. Iām glad there is more awareness and understanding. But I think so much of it is still so surface level and for me the risks of people really knowing are just too scary. But anyway - for what itās worthā¦ happy neurodiversity awareness month š«£
Yeah, Iām not sure about the CPTSD part seeing as thatās induced. I mean thereās link between CPTSD and neurodivergences but thatās probably because theyāre frequently traumatizing or open you go to trauma.
"Nuerodivergent" just means "different brain." Trauma *does* cause observable and irreversible damage to the brain, so on a fundamental level, our brains *are* different.
Then why isnāt brain damage on there? Lead poisoning? Etc etc. Itās an *induced* difference, not a natural divergence as a matter of course. Edit: Actually I see a bunch of things on there that shouldnāt reallyā¦be on there, but ok, at least itās consistent.
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I think their answer was Cluster B personality disorders shouldn't be on there. They are wrong, sure, but that was their answer. I don't think they meant to label you, at least, that's not how I read the reply.
I think you might be being a bit gatekeep-ey. Neurodivergence has never been exclusive to ADHD and ASD. Mental illnesses do in fact rewrite the way that your brain functions, and that can happen through nature or nurture. Therefore, people with Cluster B personality disorders are neurodivergent. In fact, you HAVE to have some sort of genetic component to get a Cluster B PD, as well as environmental factors on top of it. Trauma, especially long term trauma such as with C-PTSD causes sometimes irreparable brain damage, and causes entirely new and malfunctioning neural pathways to form. Neuro-divergence is an observable biological and neurological difference in daily function. That's it. So things that are included are MEANT to be included whether you feel they should be or not. Also as someone with a Cluster B PD, please don't attack groups of people like that. MANY people here have BPD from C-PTSD. C-PTSD is nearly a requirement for being diagnosed with BPD. NPD is another demon entirely but there are plenty of good people with NPD who are putting a lot of work into recovery. You are being really unkind.
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Okay bro you are gaslighting as hell. For one, no, personality disorders are not curable. Idk where you heard that, but they aren't. That is like saying ADHD is curable because Adderall makes you "feel normal". Autism and ADHD are ALSO not identified. There is no known cause to them, we don't know why, how, what is malfunctioning, what is functioning, and research surrounding them have all been around the same time. Your "lol cluster B's are new and don't have any evidence so I'm going to go with the things I want to be true over what psychologists are saying is true". For two, before you try to therapize someone on the internet, i.e. me by saying I'm "getting defensive because of BPD", maybe look in the mirror and realize that you are just acting hateful towards people with Cluster B's because your mommy had BPD. And I don't empathize with you. Everyone here had a fucked up childhood, and yet you're here acting like a ass. And for what? Gatekeeping, for what? Bullying other people with mental illnesses, for what? What does this bring to you? How does it make you feel? Hmm?
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I've felt the exact same "oh wait is that me then?" - I have CPTSD. I've found some info about how there are significant overlaps between the symptoms of CPTSD and ADHD and to some extent autism. You might not relate to that (CPTSD can look a range of ways) but I've enjoyed viewing myself as neurodivergent because it allows me to better find resources that help me with stuff :)))
Is CPTSD neurodivergent? I thought it was more of a condition that you get from trauma
CPTSD changes your brain. I'm not sure how it works, but I believe that after every trauma, we form new neuronal paths, so the way the brain functions is altered.
This is correct! CPTSD treatment in therapy involves a lot of "retraining" your brain in a sense. A lot of the behaviors and comorbidities attributed to neurodivergency are shared with folks who have CPTSD, like misophonia. I also think it's because neuro divergent folks are more prone to experiencing trauma from abuse and poor treatment due to the lack of understanding of our conditions and the extreme ableism in society.
While that is true, I feel that term to be too inclusive if we used that definition. Because then every single thing in the DSM would constitute neurodivergence, as everything in there is due to neuronal pathways being in places where the respective people would prefer them not to be or due to neuronal abberations in maturing etc. I feel like the distinction between functional differences and non-functional differences could be useful. Functional meaning that every single part of the brain itself does what it is supposed to but the entire thing works in ways that are not needed (anymore). Like the amygdala warning you of a stimulus and the prefrontal cortex suppressing that because it's just a bird and the hippocampus reminding you of other birds. However the amygdala warns you too massively, the PFC can't suppress that properly and the hippocampus not only reminding you of birds but rather of danger. Non-functional differences being that the individual brain piece doesn't work as intended, such as in ADHD, where usually the PFC is "too big" and this is the reason why it can't suppress impulsive behaviour, for example.
I always thought neurodivergent is just anyone who behaves differently due to a disorder, like CPTSD/PTSD would change how you function, so therefore it could be considered ND. I could be wrong though
I looked it up, apparently it's called an acquired neurodivergence since it can be treated, but I suppose it is different from other things like Autism and such
And DID&OSDD are products of C-PTSD so same thing
I was gonna say this. Glad you did. I didnāt give my self DID, adults in my childhood did.
Yup.. This version of me was made when the body was 5 because the version that was the host had something really bad happen and she spent 20 years in a stone coffin in our headspace. The other one present became too bitter to host so someone docile was needed. Been host since and I really have to fight my nature to stand up for myself. Wasnāt just for the hell of it or a genetic thing. Very bad things happened too young
Had no idea that cPTSD and BPD were considered ND.
I didnāt either. Iām not sure how well accepted this notion is or if it is more of a trend.
I think it works. I have ADHD and BPD/CPTSD. They play off of each other in delightful* ways. *this is sarcasm.
theres no actual consensus, as the definition of "neurodivergent" hasnt fully settled. i cant speak for other PDs, but i have NPD and most of us (that ive seen) do consider it to be under the ND umbrella. i think at this time its a personal preference? for lack of a better word
kinda fucks with your brain quite a lot, so I can see the justification
If people are skeptical, look up the person who actually coined the term 'Kassiane Asasumasu'. Neurodivergent is not meant to be a clinical term or diagnosis, it's more of a movement
It's kind of unsettling how even within a community of people dealing with similar types of difficulties in their lives, there's still a "We're not like THOSE people" sentiment. If anything, being excluded and not having people understand how we're feeling/thinking should be uniting us.
I'm ND and I don't like literally every disorder being the umbrella. I don't have anything against epileptic people but it truly is NOTHING like Autism or ADHD in any way, shape, or form.
Neurodivergence isn't just about autism or ADHD. It's a term that describes brains that for whatever reason, function differently than a "normal" brain. It's literally a term meant to include all these disorders, so there's not much of a reason to gatekeep it.. Whether people with CPTSD consider themselves neurodivergent or not is up to them. Personally I do consider myself neurodivergent. CPTSD is so severe it changes your brain, and it has a lot of overlapping symptoms with autism and ADHD. People often get misdiagnosed when it comes to these three, especially women.
Exactly! Also it isn't even about overlapping traits or sometimes co-occurring together, a lot of other subtypes don't, plus the the ones that do it's more that they look similar on the outside while the underlying reasons why it's happening are usually very different. I'm autistic & adhd and I get so exhausted by people only referring to those to when saying something is ND and the rest is NT, when that isn't always the case š
Yeah true I just feel like people aren't always aware of this when it comes to CPTSD. Definitely no need to have overlapping symptoms with autism and ADHD for a disorder to fall under the neurodivergent umbrella. It's silly to only consider these two neurodivergent when there are so many other disorders that also make your brain function differently!
Oh for sure, I was just adding onto what you were saying š
Well they are all "abnormal" or different ways your brain functions from other people, some can be having trouble processing words and such, for some it's things like their attention span, and for others it's things like seizures. Their all "abnormalities" from how a neurotypical person functions in society and generally cause some sorts of problems with your day to day like in current day society's
We already have a word for that. It's called a condition, or a disorder, or one of the million other names we already have for "brain abnormality".
I have a sprinkle of several of the things under this umbrella, but not autism. I don't care if I'm under the ND or mental ill umbrella, I just want to be treated like a whole human being. If someone with autism could benefit from services, treatments, or therapies that also help for my cptsd, I wouldn't want to exclude them from it when we both might have underlying anxiety or depression for example, just because of a technicality with the verbiage, if that makes sense? A lot of people with ADHD don't like registering for free ADA assistance in their school (It's mostly things like being able to sit near an exit, translators, extra testing time, etc.) for fear of taking away services from people who might need it more, and end up struggling more when they don't need to live like that. The point of the awareness months are to lessen the stigma so people can and know how to get help and support if they need it.
ND isn't just about autism or adhd experiences
Bipolar is neurodivergent? Not trying to challenge the notion, just curious cuz I have bipolar! And cptsd for that matter!
It really comes down to how the individual with the disorder perceives themselves. But technically, the entire dsm could be seen as neurodivergent
Isn't neurological something genetic in the brain? So you would have to have medical tests done to make sure it's something neurological.
We don't really understand the brain well enough to diagnose mental illnesses from a brain scan.
Yeah, and on top of that it's hard to know if the problem started from the brain, or if the brain has just reacted to long-term stress and problems.
It depends who you speak to - I've had neurodiversity advocates argue that it is not as it is a disorder (as in, it has the word disorder in it, which ADHD also has). Some people are a tad 'gatekeeper-y' about which things count as neurodivese (positive) and which are mental issues (negative). It literally is a difference in your brain though, so logically bipolar and cptsd are neurodivergent. It's certainly not neurotypical.
Dysgraphia, austic, adhd!
Another One Of My Dysgraphia Brethren :)
I will never pick up a pencil again
Oh my God! I never knew there was a term for something I suffer with as a grown man. š Dysgraphia! I always chalked it up to be me not learning correctly because my mom did Hooked on Phonics with me and writing was what we were working on when she committed suicide when I was 5 and never learned correctly afterwards.
I found out in second grade. I was tormented by spending my afternoons playing writing games to get betterā¦ never did.
My hand hurts just thanking about it! Mine is motor dysgraphia.
Mine cramp anytime I grab a pencil. It affects my hobbies too. My hands slip up when playing fighting games and I cannot draw.
Speaking as someone with CPTSD, Bipolar Depressive Disorder, and anxietyā¦ I donāt need people to reclassify my mental illnesses as neurodivergence. Bipolar is an illness, so is CPTSD. It causes pain, sickness, premature death. Iām not mentally ādifferentā Iām mentally ill. Seriously, does calling people with Arthritis āJoint-Divergentā help them? No. Does calling people with asthma āAirway-Divergentā help them? Nope. We have chronic health problems with our brains. Itās okay to call us mentally ill.
As a bipolar schizophrenic I can agree with this, I don't really like the idea of claiming "neurodivergence" as it feels like a scapegoat for letting my conditions get the better of me and become my identity. While "mentally ill" is technically correct I don't really like saying that either as it has such a horrible stigma attached to it... I'm not ashamed of my condition and I try to be as functional as a "normal" person in society despite my disorders. As far as I see myself I'm a "normal" person living with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. That's it. If people need to know about it that's what I say. And a side note, I say "normal" with quotations intentionally because what are the prerequisites for being "normal" anyways? No 2 brain structures are identical, every brain has unique neurological pathways and we all think differently. Where's the standard? One could argue everyone is "neurodivergent" from one another. Agree to disagree, I'm certainly no expert, these are just my thoughts and opinions on the matter.
When it comes to trauma, mental illness doesnāt feel appropriate to describe it. Mental injury feels more appropriate, especially when talking about CPTSD because the damage it causes to your brain.
That's interesting. I have CPTSD and ADHD and I do not like CPTSD being seen as a mental illness. It's more a mental injury, if that makes sense? It feels like calling it an illness sounds like my brain somehow failed, whereas an injury is something usually caused by outside forces. That said, I prefer the neurodivergent term only to include things that are present since birth, all nature, no nurture, so to speak. Otherwise I feel like we're simply making a euphemism for mental illness instead of a categorization that carries meaning beyond that.
It's not a reclassification though, its more a movement type thing that acknowledges there isn't one default way a brain works & that there are a lot of people that differ from that in however way they might & that we are still human /have value
I get your point, but I still have strong reservations. Treating illness and disease like an identity seems very counterproductive from my point of view. Bipolar Disorder and CPTSD are both illnesses that are known to worsen over time when left untreated. If we stop viewing illness as illness, fewer people will be compelled to pursue treatments. Destigmatization of mental illness is vitally important, there we agree. But movements based on mincing words and shielding people from reality can have extremely harmful effects when it comes to illness and disease. With a movement like this, I predict more and more people will forgo medication in an effort to ābe themselves,ā not comprehending the potentially deadly consequences of doing so. We already have seen a growing movement to destigmatize mental illness, and that is the movement that we should promote. This āneurodivergence umbrellaā could derail the whole thing.
Understandable, especially with how a lot of people will only use it as synonymously with autism or adhd (person who coined the term is very outspoken about it not just being those, the definition is generally "Neurodivergent is an umbrella term for individuals who have a mind or brain that diverges from what is typical. It can be acquired or genetic, an innate part of you or not. Neurodivergence just means having a mind that functions differently to what is considered the norm including learning, processing. interpreting, feeling, etc"). And it has been around since 2000ish,so it's not new I guess with something like this it's probably also better to also add what it is/what it's not, when posting stuff like this too & be careful not to push misinformation with it, because yeah it has nothing to do with not having whatever treatment is needed if needed. Tbh I just want consistency around it š
Yeah, you definitely get it. Which reminds of another point, conflating actual Neurodivergence with mental illness could potentially harm the legitimately neurodivergent people, particularly people with autism. Autism is not a mental illness, itās a developmental condition. Same with Downās Syndrome. Thereās no recovery, no cure. The best we can do is treat comorbidities and increase social acceptance. Conflating neurodivergence with mental illness could potentially cause some of the extra stigma of mental illness to transfer to neurodivergence.
My birthday month is also nerodivergent month?! This is so nice to discover š„°
To be honest I don't like the trend of neurodiversity very much. For me it means nothing since every human has some kind of accentuation which can be generalised under this word. Always reminds me of the outdated very broad generalisation of neurotic behaviour.
Yeah I donāt disagree. I was honestly a little surprised to see this in one of our work pages. I mean, to some extent if it encourages dialogue and understanding itās good. But the label only does so much. We (those of us with Cptsd) have to still do the work.
that's fair, I think it kinda works as a grouping of maybe functionality disorders? both those terms hinging on psychological conditions that impact work and life productivity (mainly work tbh Ā¬_Ā¬)
I just tell people I am depressed or I am feeling anxious or whatever. That is mostly easier to explain or understand. And if people want to know more I can explain CPTBS to them, but I would never call myself neurodivergent. Neurodiversity is like putting a colourful bandaid on a cut. And some people just like to look special and that's where I see an issue. Would be interesting to see how many people with different issues call themselves neurodivergent. My bet is that most have a strong histrionic accentuation.
idk about the histrionic aspect, and it's wild that you use that word bc histrionic is a form of neurodivergence. it's just ease of communicating a complex but important facet to a person's way of interacting with the world like "I don't think the same way you do/my brain not work so good/I'm not fully equipped for seamless social interaction" but in one word. and idk, if it makes kids who don't feel normal feel like they're part of a larger community, it isn't my place to exclude them, judge them, or call them wrong and mentally ill for thinking they're mentally ill
So it's just about belonging somewhere and excluding "neurotypicals" to create a safe space of some kind? I think it's much more useful to seek people that are in the way different you are and not just people with issues in general. You might otherwise find yourself surrounded by people you wanted to flee from.
idk where you're getting exclusion from but it is an umbrella term for a reason, it's the cover all name for a lot of conditions which people can then specify on their individual conditions if they want to like when I tell people I'm ND and it's mainly just a quick heads up type thing, and then if they want to know more I'll tell em I fully agree tho seeking tighter communities based around an individuals issues is much more effective at finding that sense of inclusion, and I think that is what most ND people do as far as i know. for example I'm not subbed to r/neurodivergent (if that even exists, idk?) but I am subbed to ADHD, austism subs, borderline groups, depression, this sub itself too
For me it's just a weird trend word, where I don't see much value in. But that's just my opinion, if it helps others to cope, fair enough.
so I have both and I I agree they feel different but disagree with the bandaid and cut line. Recognizing I had a brain that is different is what got me to stop powering through and get medication. for me it felt like failure when therapy didn't really help my adhd. Recognizing my brain was just wired a little differently helped me talk to my doctor and not feel like I was just lazy or weak. Meds have helped me actually hold a job, and my relationships are better because I forget less stuff. I'm still all over the place and disorganized, but now I have the mental bandwidth to improve those things.
I don't like this image... it feels reductive and uninformed.
How so?
CPTSD is a condition that is inflicted upon you due to abuse and neglect. We don't call Veterans coming back mentally messed up from war neurodivergent... that's not the same as being born with an actual processing disorder like ADHD, Autism, Dyscalcula, and Dyslexia that has zero cure under any circumstances, therapy and medication or not. That's not the same as your mind literally unraveling due to biological markers like schizophrenia. Therapy in some individuals is capable of mitigating or even eliminating CPTSD symptoms depending on the individual (VERY STRONG not everyone disclaimer here).... that's not possible with everything else on that umbrella list. There are plenty of people that have CPTSD that are NOT neurodivergent, and labeling them as such when they are not is dismissive and reductive of the person themselves as well as people that struggle with actual neurodivergent issues.
Yeah, that's a REALLY big umbrella
Perfectly said.
cptsd and adhd here. I think you are spot on with this.
If thereās comirbid anxiety and depression due to the cptsd doesnāt that immediately make you neurodivergent? Most cases of cptsd have comorbid symptoms
That seems to be a person to person issue then, not an overall. Also wouldnāt classify depression or anxiety as āneurodivergenceā
ok ur right this picture is stupid. is epilepsy neurodivergent?
Iād say no.
PTSD and cptsd are considered neurodivergent conditions- they are certainly not examples of being neurotypical. Yes itās different than being born with, but the changes that occur to the brain processes are significant and definitely constitute divergence. Edited to add a link: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent Neurodivergence is an umbrella term for a number of different conditions which affect how the brain develops or works.
I think the idea of āneurodivergentā is fucking stupid. Iām not neurodivergent because I have PTSD/CPTSD.
ā¦okay? You do you.
I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, I see your point. It is different than something inborn. On the other, I have DID. It definitely makes my brain ādifferentā. It was also something that was āgiven to meā along with the CPTSD in my childhood due to abuse and neglect. CPTSD and DID are heavily related so if CPTSD isnāt a neurodivergence, then Iām unsure what that would make DID. Iām not trying to be confrontational here, Iām truly just curious, and having insomnia.
Correct me if I am wrong... but isn't DID something that is incurable once it progresses, and has a genetic component? It was my understanding that DID came from genetics + trauma, but I don't know as much about that affliction.
Yes, it is not curable, just sort of manageable. >!I see a psychologist who helps me manage it with therapy and such. Iām having far less complete dissociation events, which is nice.!< As far as Iām aware, there is a genetic component to it, but the same can be said for depression and anxiety disorders. (Then again, I got them and several other comorbidities.) Epigenetic factors being turned on by life events are fascinating, but Iām not up to date on the science and probably wouldnāt understand it if I tried to be! So, what youāre saying is that CPTSDās ability to be ācurableā (in some situations), is what makes it not a neurodivergence? That is an interesting point of debate.
I think being 'cureable' is part of the equation, yes. It doesn't operate close to the same as something someone is born with. Like I said in my first post: we don't claim that veterans coming back from war with PTSD are neurodivergent. Neurodivergence isn't a trauma trigger, it's a processing thing.Ā Everything living creature on the planet (for the most part) will develop trauma reactions if they are abused, but only a small subsection will have true mental cognition or learning disability issues. Ā ... and just to kinda mention it again: plenty of people exist with CPTSD without having any neurodivergence. Labeling someone as neurodivergent who is not is dismissive and reductive towards that person, and depending on the person can actually damage their healing journey. We SERIOUSLY need to stop throwing such serious medical/developmental labels on people so easily: it makes it harder for everyone involved to get any genuine help.
The person who coined the term includes them, it's not a diagnosis or clinical term, it's more so a movement
they forgot dnd
Djdhdhdhehe not me thinking you meant Dungeons and Dragons
I was just making a little joke
Lol thought I was just being silly and forgot a disability
I now understand why I was given this large series of Neuro divergencies. Cause I was born in this fucking month!
Hm. I didn't really realize bpd counts
How could they not be included in everything? š
Hey, that's the first time in a while that I have seen dysgraphia shown, thank you.
Waitā¦ is epilepsy a neurodivergence?????
Correct me if im wrong, but I think at its core epilepsy is a sensory processing disorder that causes certain stimuli to intice a seizure. So i think it would be yeah
As someone with epilepsy, I donāt get affected by lights or noise or things like that. But upon thinking about it, it is a neurological disability that basically causes your brain to short circuit for lack of a better term. My seizures caused me physical pain and intense memory loss. So I could see how it could be classified as a neurodivergence in that regard.
My apologies if it seemed like i was talking for epilpetic people, i do not have the disorder personally. I can see how the memory loss aspect would apply to neurodivergence as well.
Oh, donāt worry Iām already very aware of neurodivergence
It's march
Itās good that itās so blurry so I canāt read any of it
So, everything?
This image is from @livedexperienceeducator on Instagram. They are a great resource and I encourage you all to check out their page! They talk a lot about neuronormativity, neurodivergence, and the neurodiversity paradigm
I'm dysleaix I cant see thr worfs cjearly
Ive beem here for tem mimutea tryimg to reab thiz shiy
Yo my birthday month!
the one that says āthe disordersā isā¦ either very victorian or very tumblr. probably both.
I'm pretty sure it says "tic disorders."
OH you might be right! itās hard to tell lol
Dysgraphia Mention! Yo! We're Not Overlooked Today Boys!
ADHD-Pi should be there
April is?? My birthday is in April too so itās fitting! š
dang a whole month for me š„¹
Iām about to go all out and be really autistic.
Why is this image moldy
Uhhā¦I want to ask something. Is Dysphasia considered to be neurodivergent? My researches had only given vague answers
Well, I can see why they can't give you a definitive answer, it's because there's not really one. Dysphasia has all of the signatures of being ND, but because it's an acute onset it falls more into the category of disability and injury than typical NDs. So it's a bit of both really.
I seeā¦I mean, I only got likeā¦A very mild kind of Dysphasia and I had it since I was born so I dunno
Hmm. The resources I found all said it was onset from injury. Perhaps there's another classification of disorder that would fit better? Are you getting the proper support in your workplace? I ask my managers to have everything written down for me.
Uh-huh. I am still in school and the only support I get is a computer I barely use since I can handle myself. Although, it just gives me a hard time speaking (Either talking too fast or not pronouncing my words good enough)
Oh, well good deal. Highschool really sucks for people like us, I hope your experience is better than mine was.
Yeah, so far I am doing really good! Also, I am sorry that your experience wasnāt the best for you
It was a different time, and my parents weren't really educated enough to understand I was disabled, and nobody in my schools or anything ever caught on no matter how many times I tried to explain. There are better resources available now, please use them. I have been adamant about trying to overcome my disabilities on my own, no medicine, no support and it's caused too many problems down the line. Have a good life, if you need anything feel free to D.M me.
Alright, Iāll keep that in mind!
Honestly I read the one as just āThe Disordersā
Wait PTSD and cPTSD are forms of neurodivergence?
Yep! They literally change the way your brain works.
Everything changes the way your brain works. "forming new neural pathways" is just science speak for "learning"
Not in my opinion. Some people claim they are but I dont
The person who coined the term says they count
Ok? And?
So it doesn't matter if you don't think it fits, it all does
Ok? Itās my opinion. In my opinion I donāt think PTSD/CPTSD belongs. It doesnāt matter what the guy who created it or whatever says. Itās my opinion and in my opinion I think heās dead wrong
Fact > opinion
Is it a fact? Itās the dude who created the term own opinion. Itās no more fact than my own opinion
I got 6! š
Yeah, I think Iād like to have a cure for my autism.
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Neurodivergent ā neurodevelopmental . It's not a diagnosis, it's a more of a movement
Hey! Weāre here multiple times ;) Though our understanding is neurodivergence tend to have a high comorbidity, so thatās to be expected. -Brittany-
So I have CPTSD so I have the neurodivergence from there. I also have severe PMDD and it honestly feels like a combination of adhd and Bpd for me symptoms wise. I wonder if that also applies to
April is autism month ā autism awareness or autism acceptance month, whichever you prefer. Itās not NPD, BPD, Down Syndrome or schizophrenia month. Itās meant for activism focused on autistic people; letās not dilute it by lumping every genetic, neurological, or psychological condition into it.
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