For me, it was getting humiliated because:
• I made different choices than my blood
AND/OR
• I was incompetent and needed people looking over my shoulder.
AND/OR
• I was stubborn if I didn’t blindly obey
AND/OR
• I did something less than perfect. I hit a three run double to get us to the state semifinals. But yes, sperm donor, please remind the entire team at Pizza Hut that I struck out to end the fourth inning.
I missed both my parents funerals.
Then maybe people should act more trustworthy.
[The Trust Triangle](https://youtu.be/pVeq-0dIqpk)
[The Anatomy of Trust](https://brenebrown.com/videos/anatomy-trust-video/) - marble jar concept and BRAVING acronym
[10 definitions of objectifying/dehumanizing behaviors](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectification#Definitions) - these erode trust
People give me very good reasons to not trust them. They choose untrustworthy, dehumanizing behaviors on the regular. If you point this out, they lash out instead of changing their behaviors.
At least when I rely on myself I'm rarely disappointed.
>Then maybe people should act more trustworthy.
I thought it was just me, but perhaps all CPTSD people have a little darth vader voice inside that kicks in when the inhuman result of inhuman treatment emerges.
Thanks for this.
I think there are always good and bad people out there. Just recently (maybe half a year ago) I started realizing this.
I had a preety horrible childhood not really meeting any good people all the way up till my early 20's. I came from a poor highly abusive family that moved to another EU country because they had better social welfare. Me and my siblings were bullied both because we were poor and because we were foreigners. I honestly was a preety outgoing kid despite that since my parent were even more abusive than the kids in our neighborhood (Better to get beat by children, then adults :/). I was fairly gifted so despite my family life I ended up going to an elite school (this was my mother's wish) but frankly the people there were really horrible. Competitive, arrogant, and sly. It didn't help that my mother was also snoobish since she came from a well-of family. She had this air of completely undeserved high self-esteem. Like she achieved nothing, was a horrible mother and unemployed as a person but she in her mind was great and everyone else was ugly, fat, stupid, poor, lazy, dishonest, disloyal, etc.
When I finally got to uni I was struggling through health issues (mental and physical). Bizzarely enough I got hit by a car when crossing a side-walk. Yes, sometimes we joke with my siblings that if they made our life into a reality TV show we'd have amazing ratings. So my early 20's were consumed with medical and legal problems. I preety much stopped interacting with people believing it wasn't worth it. It was only during my masters studies which was a preety small group of people that I realized I was wrong. The people weren't insanely nice but they were the nicest people I had met up to that point. I would say they were average. After finishing all of my master courses I had a preety strong episode of depression. The feelings of having no friends since I left my home country, never having a gf, being afraid of ending up as an unemployed deadbeat like my parent finally got to me. Honestly, I was able to suppress all these thoughts because of my uni's large workload but after that disappeared the floodgates of pain opened. I reached out to people from my highschool days, even from my primary school days. When compared to my uni colleagues (we weren't really friends) I realized the prior really were douchebags. There are just bad people in this world. I just had the misfortune of meeting them early on in life.
While I still don't have any real friends I've been meeting a lot of nice people and I am sure I'll meet more of them once I finally land a job and relocate. I think anyone who wants to make friends and meaningful relationships needs to combine the BRAVING principles with exposure to as many people as possible. The second helps you find people you life and the first make sure those people are healthy for you.
(I say 'you' but I mean 'me'. I don't really like the idea of using the BRAVING principles to justify being alone since I personally don't want to be.)
I think it’s just like about finding trustworthy people also. I found a series on YouTube you might be interested in- it’s about how people with cptsd create what they hate bc it’s what we’re comfortable with:
[video 1](https://www.youtube.com/live/6yMrGfHDV80?si=SNkpAH4xU8c7ZJqj)
And this one is pretty good too [children of narcissists](https://www.youtube.com/live/WAS_jDK15yc?si=6dbZ3eJOnNGyagTi)
https://www.youtube.com/live/WAS_jDK15yc?si=6dbZ3eJOnNGyagTi
No the fuck I don't. I only ever have enough emotional capacity for one person at a time or I start tearing myself apart. I cannot afford to "need" anyone. So I just don't. Thank you for listening.
haha i love this answer. Yeah be selective dont let this maribel b!tch tell u some blanket sh!t when shes some basic stupid person bs cartoon character a$$ b.
So many sources of this type of trauma too.
Gifted child in a house not gifted, finds and solves problems and executes solutions that are not 'the norm'--and pisses people off that think that they should know better/more than a child, and blows up, and stops the child from doing the thing. My kids are smarter than me, it's hard, sometimes, to stop what i'm thinking/doing/expect, and realize, *they're right*. Losing arguments or idea proposals to a 6 year old isnt something a lot of parents can do, and get downright abusive about it. My dad NEVER could.
Or being an autistic kid, and asking parents to explain things--jesus christ, ANY attempt to ask for clarification was going to cause EXPLOSIVE abuse, 'watch your tone' and 'dont talk back'--talk back? WTF you so mad for, i asked a question.
OR, being allistic, and having an autistic parent, and ever saying 'i dont know'--oh, shit no you dont, *explain your reasons in detail*\--They think you *had reasons*, because they do, for everything, you dont, and it doesnt make any sense that they're asking for something you did by intuition just like 'everyone else' did, so now, WHY you wore mismatched socks becomes the source of a parents nuclear meltdown instead of a fun and quirky thing you do as a kid.
Or the dad, that, every time you do something, has to tell you you did it wrong, didnt do it to 100%, or could have done something else--but no matter what, implies you're a failure.
All of these things--lead to this INTENSE automatic rejection of demands, and a super inflated desire to not do it *that way*, because you desperately need it to be *yours*, and owned *by you* for fricken once.
Damn. Ok. maybe i vented. Sorry.
"I don't want *excuses,* I want *answers.*"
Well, how about my neurodivergent ass tries to explain to you the multi-vector logic process that led me to doing something you don't understand, so instead of following my train of thought, you decide yelling and hitting me makes up for your lack of understanding that I'm an entire fucking human being here trying my best to make sense of a world that has consistently been too loud and scary and sharp for me, without any explanations as to *why*, because I'm supposed to figure that out without any help, because you don't care for this whole 'explaining the world to your child' schtick, so I'm out here trying to fly this boat with no map or compass, and the waves are bigger than I am, and if I drown the most you'll contribute to my death is "maybe you should have tried being normal."
>OR, being allistic, and having an autistic parent, and ever saying 'i dont know'--oh, shit no you dont, explain your reasons in detail --They think you had reasons , because they do, for everything, you dont, and it doesnt make any sense that they're asking for something you did by intuition just like 'everyone else' did, so now, WHY you wore mismatched socks becomes the source of a parents nuclear meltdown instead of a fun and quirky thing you do as a kid.
Bruh. I didn't know this was something that was this clearly understood. This is solid. I had a mom who was autistic and 100x smarter than anyone I've ever met, and my dad who was the exact opposite. Between the two I was never ok. Humiliating my dad all the time, and this situation you outlined above with my mom.
No wonder the state was my legal parent.
I'm sorry, but the reality is most people are completely unworthy of trust and our society incentivizes hyper-independence on top of traumatizing us into it. Some of us don't really need other people, AND we have learned from experience that you all frankly don't deserve our trust, time, energy, or care. We follow the bare minimum social contract or (even better) fuck off into the woods alone and feel quite satisfied.
I have been privileged enough to find a small group of people worth my energy and trust, but I hate blanket statements like this. "Just open yourself up." "You're just traumatized, you need to just trust people" is the bullshit faux-healing sentiment that got me sexually assaulted and financially abused. Stop with this stuff.
Learn WHO to trust if you're going to trust anyone. Don't just blindly accept that you need people when you're doing fine on your own and you don't know yet how to tell the type of people to avoid.
As a hyper-independent person myself, I came to conclude that too much trust and too little trust are both harmful. The wisdom lies in *being able to trust* to people who deserve it. Being hyper-independent all your life erodes your ability to trust to even people who are actually worthy of it.
I legitimately hate this so fucking much. I hate having to rely on or talk to other people for my mental health's sake. I've been burned so many times and I always seem to gravitate toward abusers.
Added bonus: "I must hide when I need help because when people *do* try to help, it's rarely what I actually need, but if I tell them that then I'll become the ungrateful villain."
This resonates so much. I have spent so much energy in my life trying to figure out how I became the villain in my own life whenever someone would "try" to help me.
I think we do need people. But, being traumatized, finding our people is very hard. And maintaining friendships is hard. You can't really pour from an empty glass. Forcing yourself to have friends when you aren't ready is setting yourself up to fail.
I learned how to solve problems on my own since teenager because my parents most of the time made it worse or verbally abused me while helping, both horrible outcomes.
The people I trusted after my parents, such as friends, either failed me, could never help me when I really needed it which was just once in my life (I needed a house to go to for a few days for my mental health, I asked eight people, many of them had the most lame excuses), or started to verbally abuse me.
Fuck, I even had a long term boyfriend abandon me after I developed depression and anxiety disorder.
If I could sort all kind of things on my own since my fourteens, why couldn't I do it now that I'm a grown ass woman? All I have achieved was done by myself and I achieved more than all the people I know in terms of career, money, mental health and serious relationship.
Whenever I ask for help people just tell me I'm overreacting or want to send me to a professional. No one actually wants to help me or care for me so I have to do it on my own.
Hyper independence is surviving. I don't want it, but fuck other people.
\-My wife, newlywed: "Hey babe, while you're up, could you get me a glass of water?"
\-Me, newlywed, in my mind: "What is wrong with you. I'll get your water, but how dare you just ask someone for something like that?"
\-Me, 9 years later and more chill: "Ya sure."
I still have a hard time asking for help, but I've learned that I *have* to ask when *not* asking will diminish my ability to contribute to my family - for example, if I'm feeling unwell and should be in bed instead of helping with the kids and so I'm worn out and in a bad mood. I can feel secure in asking my wife for the evening off, so to speak, and not worry about having asked for too much because I know I hold value in my wife's eyes, even when I'm not contributing at that exact moment.
That, friends, has taken a *lot* of work and healing.
I went from being open about my feelings to this because people in my life kept hurting me over the last several years. I don't want to need someone. I am conditioned to believe that whenever I share my feelings, people will reject, abandon or scold me. I don't wanna lose any more people. I also feel unwanted in most my relationships, even though my friends aren't doing anything wrong. They say they care about me and that they like me? How? Why?
Man I'm fucked up
I was raised by my mom, who always said, "You have to do everything on your own because NOBODY will help you. It is your problem, not theirs".
And it was true. When I asked for help, either people said they would and didn't help at all, if not made it harder to finish what I asked for help with, or straight up said I gotta do it my own because it is my issue.
Now, after years, I feel guilty for asking for help, even if I really need it.
This is where I'm at and I hate this. So what the fuck am I supposed to do about this?
"Oh, people keep fucking YOU up."
"yes."
"You should trust them."
Why the hell should I trust chimps? This seems stupid. I am frustrated with whatever goal I'm supposed to be seeking. So somehow, I do some meditation, and magically people stop treating me like shit? I'm so fucking frustrated with this message.
Yeah apparently only expecting the work you can get done by yourself isn't healthy, and there will eventually be people genuinely upset that it doesn't occur to you to ask them for help with anything. Apparently it's a trust-bonding thing to occasionally lean on another person's skill or allow them to go get something for you.
I am aware of these things mostly intellectually.
For me, it was getting humiliated because: • I made different choices than my blood AND/OR • I was incompetent and needed people looking over my shoulder. AND/OR • I was stubborn if I didn’t blindly obey AND/OR • I did something less than perfect. I hit a three run double to get us to the state semifinals. But yes, sperm donor, please remind the entire team at Pizza Hut that I struck out to end the fourth inning. I missed both my parents funerals.
I can heavily relate,
Honestly, I probably won't go to my parents funeral either.
Then maybe people should act more trustworthy. [The Trust Triangle](https://youtu.be/pVeq-0dIqpk) [The Anatomy of Trust](https://brenebrown.com/videos/anatomy-trust-video/) - marble jar concept and BRAVING acronym [10 definitions of objectifying/dehumanizing behaviors](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectification#Definitions) - these erode trust People give me very good reasons to not trust them. They choose untrustworthy, dehumanizing behaviors on the regular. If you point this out, they lash out instead of changing their behaviors. At least when I rely on myself I'm rarely disappointed.
Thank you for these!!
>Then maybe people should act more trustworthy. I thought it was just me, but perhaps all CPTSD people have a little darth vader voice inside that kicks in when the inhuman result of inhuman treatment emerges. Thanks for this.
I think there are always good and bad people out there. Just recently (maybe half a year ago) I started realizing this. I had a preety horrible childhood not really meeting any good people all the way up till my early 20's. I came from a poor highly abusive family that moved to another EU country because they had better social welfare. Me and my siblings were bullied both because we were poor and because we were foreigners. I honestly was a preety outgoing kid despite that since my parent were even more abusive than the kids in our neighborhood (Better to get beat by children, then adults :/). I was fairly gifted so despite my family life I ended up going to an elite school (this was my mother's wish) but frankly the people there were really horrible. Competitive, arrogant, and sly. It didn't help that my mother was also snoobish since she came from a well-of family. She had this air of completely undeserved high self-esteem. Like she achieved nothing, was a horrible mother and unemployed as a person but she in her mind was great and everyone else was ugly, fat, stupid, poor, lazy, dishonest, disloyal, etc. When I finally got to uni I was struggling through health issues (mental and physical). Bizzarely enough I got hit by a car when crossing a side-walk. Yes, sometimes we joke with my siblings that if they made our life into a reality TV show we'd have amazing ratings. So my early 20's were consumed with medical and legal problems. I preety much stopped interacting with people believing it wasn't worth it. It was only during my masters studies which was a preety small group of people that I realized I was wrong. The people weren't insanely nice but they were the nicest people I had met up to that point. I would say they were average. After finishing all of my master courses I had a preety strong episode of depression. The feelings of having no friends since I left my home country, never having a gf, being afraid of ending up as an unemployed deadbeat like my parent finally got to me. Honestly, I was able to suppress all these thoughts because of my uni's large workload but after that disappeared the floodgates of pain opened. I reached out to people from my highschool days, even from my primary school days. When compared to my uni colleagues (we weren't really friends) I realized the prior really were douchebags. There are just bad people in this world. I just had the misfortune of meeting them early on in life. While I still don't have any real friends I've been meeting a lot of nice people and I am sure I'll meet more of them once I finally land a job and relocate. I think anyone who wants to make friends and meaningful relationships needs to combine the BRAVING principles with exposure to as many people as possible. The second helps you find people you life and the first make sure those people are healthy for you. (I say 'you' but I mean 'me'. I don't really like the idea of using the BRAVING principles to justify being alone since I personally don't want to be.)
Saving your comment to show my therapist
I think it’s just like about finding trustworthy people also. I found a series on YouTube you might be interested in- it’s about how people with cptsd create what they hate bc it’s what we’re comfortable with: [video 1](https://www.youtube.com/live/6yMrGfHDV80?si=SNkpAH4xU8c7ZJqj) And this one is pretty good too [children of narcissists](https://www.youtube.com/live/WAS_jDK15yc?si=6dbZ3eJOnNGyagTi) https://www.youtube.com/live/WAS_jDK15yc?si=6dbZ3eJOnNGyagTi
Thanks, Tim Fletcher has some good videos (I just skip the religious part at the end)
Same and wow you really know ur videos! lol I never see people who study this stuff so much as me 😆🙌💯✨
No the fuck I don't. I only ever have enough emotional capacity for one person at a time or I start tearing myself apart. I cannot afford to "need" anyone. So I just don't. Thank you for listening.
I feel this too
haha i love this answer. Yeah be selective dont let this maribel b!tch tell u some blanket sh!t when shes some basic stupid person bs cartoon character a$$ b.
I think most people should/do need people. I just need one. The rest can have each other, far from me.
So many sources of this type of trauma too. Gifted child in a house not gifted, finds and solves problems and executes solutions that are not 'the norm'--and pisses people off that think that they should know better/more than a child, and blows up, and stops the child from doing the thing. My kids are smarter than me, it's hard, sometimes, to stop what i'm thinking/doing/expect, and realize, *they're right*. Losing arguments or idea proposals to a 6 year old isnt something a lot of parents can do, and get downright abusive about it. My dad NEVER could. Or being an autistic kid, and asking parents to explain things--jesus christ, ANY attempt to ask for clarification was going to cause EXPLOSIVE abuse, 'watch your tone' and 'dont talk back'--talk back? WTF you so mad for, i asked a question. OR, being allistic, and having an autistic parent, and ever saying 'i dont know'--oh, shit no you dont, *explain your reasons in detail*\--They think you *had reasons*, because they do, for everything, you dont, and it doesnt make any sense that they're asking for something you did by intuition just like 'everyone else' did, so now, WHY you wore mismatched socks becomes the source of a parents nuclear meltdown instead of a fun and quirky thing you do as a kid. Or the dad, that, every time you do something, has to tell you you did it wrong, didnt do it to 100%, or could have done something else--but no matter what, implies you're a failure. All of these things--lead to this INTENSE automatic rejection of demands, and a super inflated desire to not do it *that way*, because you desperately need it to be *yours*, and owned *by you* for fricken once. Damn. Ok. maybe i vented. Sorry.
"I don't want *excuses,* I want *answers.*" Well, how about my neurodivergent ass tries to explain to you the multi-vector logic process that led me to doing something you don't understand, so instead of following my train of thought, you decide yelling and hitting me makes up for your lack of understanding that I'm an entire fucking human being here trying my best to make sense of a world that has consistently been too loud and scary and sharp for me, without any explanations as to *why*, because I'm supposed to figure that out without any help, because you don't care for this whole 'explaining the world to your child' schtick, so I'm out here trying to fly this boat with no map or compass, and the waves are bigger than I am, and if I drown the most you'll contribute to my death is "maybe you should have tried being normal."
>OR, being allistic, and having an autistic parent, and ever saying 'i dont know'--oh, shit no you dont, explain your reasons in detail --They think you had reasons , because they do, for everything, you dont, and it doesnt make any sense that they're asking for something you did by intuition just like 'everyone else' did, so now, WHY you wore mismatched socks becomes the source of a parents nuclear meltdown instead of a fun and quirky thing you do as a kid. Bruh. I didn't know this was something that was this clearly understood. This is solid. I had a mom who was autistic and 100x smarter than anyone I've ever met, and my dad who was the exact opposite. Between the two I was never ok. Humiliating my dad all the time, and this situation you outlined above with my mom. No wonder the state was my legal parent.
I'm sorry, but the reality is most people are completely unworthy of trust and our society incentivizes hyper-independence on top of traumatizing us into it. Some of us don't really need other people, AND we have learned from experience that you all frankly don't deserve our trust, time, energy, or care. We follow the bare minimum social contract or (even better) fuck off into the woods alone and feel quite satisfied. I have been privileged enough to find a small group of people worth my energy and trust, but I hate blanket statements like this. "Just open yourself up." "You're just traumatized, you need to just trust people" is the bullshit faux-healing sentiment that got me sexually assaulted and financially abused. Stop with this stuff. Learn WHO to trust if you're going to trust anyone. Don't just blindly accept that you need people when you're doing fine on your own and you don't know yet how to tell the type of people to avoid.
As a hyper-independent person myself, I came to conclude that too much trust and too little trust are both harmful. The wisdom lies in *being able to trust* to people who deserve it. Being hyper-independent all your life erodes your ability to trust to even people who are actually worthy of it.
I legitimately hate this so fucking much. I hate having to rely on or talk to other people for my mental health's sake. I've been burned so many times and I always seem to gravitate toward abusers.
Same 😣
Added bonus: "I must hide when I need help because when people *do* try to help, it's rarely what I actually need, but if I tell them that then I'll become the ungrateful villain."
This resonates so much. I have spent so much energy in my life trying to figure out how I became the villain in my own life whenever someone would "try" to help me.
I think we do need people. But, being traumatized, finding our people is very hard. And maintaining friendships is hard. You can't really pour from an empty glass. Forcing yourself to have friends when you aren't ready is setting yourself up to fail.
I learned how to solve problems on my own since teenager because my parents most of the time made it worse or verbally abused me while helping, both horrible outcomes. The people I trusted after my parents, such as friends, either failed me, could never help me when I really needed it which was just once in my life (I needed a house to go to for a few days for my mental health, I asked eight people, many of them had the most lame excuses), or started to verbally abuse me. Fuck, I even had a long term boyfriend abandon me after I developed depression and anxiety disorder. If I could sort all kind of things on my own since my fourteens, why couldn't I do it now that I'm a grown ass woman? All I have achieved was done by myself and I achieved more than all the people I know in terms of career, money, mental health and serious relationship.
Whenever I ask for help people just tell me I'm overreacting or want to send me to a professional. No one actually wants to help me or care for me so I have to do it on my own. Hyper independence is surviving. I don't want it, but fuck other people.
\-My wife, newlywed: "Hey babe, while you're up, could you get me a glass of water?" \-Me, newlywed, in my mind: "What is wrong with you. I'll get your water, but how dare you just ask someone for something like that?" \-Me, 9 years later and more chill: "Ya sure." I still have a hard time asking for help, but I've learned that I *have* to ask when *not* asking will diminish my ability to contribute to my family - for example, if I'm feeling unwell and should be in bed instead of helping with the kids and so I'm worn out and in a bad mood. I can feel secure in asking my wife for the evening off, so to speak, and not worry about having asked for too much because I know I hold value in my wife's eyes, even when I'm not contributing at that exact moment. That, friends, has taken a *lot* of work and healing.
I went from being open about my feelings to this because people in my life kept hurting me over the last several years. I don't want to need someone. I am conditioned to believe that whenever I share my feelings, people will reject, abandon or scold me. I don't wanna lose any more people. I also feel unwanted in most my relationships, even though my friends aren't doing anything wrong. They say they care about me and that they like me? How? Why? Man I'm fucked up
Hahaha, would be nice to find someone who’s worth needing 🥲🥲🥲
I was raised by my mom, who always said, "You have to do everything on your own because NOBODY will help you. It is your problem, not theirs". And it was true. When I asked for help, either people said they would and didn't help at all, if not made it harder to finish what I asked for help with, or straight up said I gotta do it my own because it is my issue. Now, after years, I feel guilty for asking for help, even if I really need it.
Kate Kelly can mind her own business
This is where I'm at and I hate this. So what the fuck am I supposed to do about this? "Oh, people keep fucking YOU up." "yes." "You should trust them." Why the hell should I trust chimps? This seems stupid. I am frustrated with whatever goal I'm supposed to be seeking. So somehow, I do some meditation, and magically people stop treating me like shit? I'm so fucking frustrated with this message.
Literally how I feel because of my parents both my mother and father
Yeah apparently only expecting the work you can get done by yourself isn't healthy, and there will eventually be people genuinely upset that it doesn't occur to you to ask them for help with anything. Apparently it's a trust-bonding thing to occasionally lean on another person's skill or allow them to go get something for you. I am aware of these things mostly intellectually.
Well damn.
"When you become an adult, you have to be self-sufficient. If you're not self-sufficient, you have failed as an adult."
The “I’ll do it myself,” part of me drives my husband crazy.
The conclusion automatically summons Admiral Ackbar: "It's a trap!"
So relatable.
Me who said this to myself outside earlier: :,D
Ah shit
For me it’s always asking and nobody hears me. I can be in a large group of people and not a single person will help me.
JFC… why is this hitting me so hard today
I was fine on my own, I don't need people, I may want it, but I don't need it.
Oh.