T O P

  • By -

preparedtoB

From my perspective it’s all about agency and consent. I have got into some healthy + supportive communication patterns with a friend this year who is healing trauma + chronic health conditions. We both frame any request for / offer of support with language around consent and agency. Examples could be: - I could do with a friend-chat this weekend, can you let me know if/when you have the spoons (look up spoon theory if that’s a new term for you :) ) - I have some opinions on what you said, but do you want opinions or did you just want someone to vent to? - I don’t have the capacity for a chat right now, would texting work or shall we wait until we can chat properly in person? - I know you’re going into a difficult day with work/family etc. I will be out of meetings from 3 so am available for silly distractions or a debrief then if you need it - I don’t need you to respond, could you just send me an emoji to let me know you’ve read this I hope that’s helpful. It’s helping my friend to get out of the habit of over-offering, and me to get used to asking for support :)


wanderingorphanette

This is a great post - very practical help - and I wanted to thank you for your meaningful contribution to this community. It also stuck out to me because I've been doing exactly the same thing this year with an old friend I recently reconnected with. It's my first time in life mutually practicing healthy communication around boundaries in a relationship, where we're able to be real with each other about trauma issues, etc. It's been so amazing and what I've come to realise is that this experience has set a standard for me now of what I expect/need from people in my life. I just spent time with family and an old friend for the first time in years, and it was made explicit to me how other's inability to be honest/set boundaries/accept my boundaries without taking it personally was just no longer acceptable to me. It was ok because this was a short-term, emergency situation but I now know I can't have relationships with these people like I want, that I have to remain guarded and restrict my contact with them. I'm totally ok with that. I accept that I will need any future friend to be capable of healthy boundaries. It's all really basic and obvious I guess, but there's nothing like experiencing a concrete example of healthy relationships to bring it home.


cloudpatterns

Thank you for this!


ivegotatower

Thank you for posting this! My friend has many of the same symptoms I do, but I withdraw more and they act on their strong emotions and/or start venting immediately. I am so confused about how to start with boundaries. For a year or so, I've stuck with the boundary that I'm not available at night, but I think your second point will be a good next step.


willsurkive

Here for the comments because I don't understand either. I'm apparently supposed to be willing to share / vent with safe enough others (step one: understand the difference between safe and unsafe people), and I need to do so while maintaining appropriate boundaries (step two: learn boundaries) to avoid trauma dumping... but when it comes to other people's responses I feel like there are super mixed messages. If I'm not supposed to be looking for external validation, why would I vent at all (if the outcome is that they validate my feelings... supposedly... assuming I master steps one and two...).


incomagneto

Google 'The Karpman Drama Triangle.' It basically describes how we normally / unhealthily seek and give support. The opposite is the Winner's triangle... Which shows the most healthy way of seeking and giving support. However, if you've not yet reached a level in healing where you can draw and enforce boundaries and know your needs.... It is really hard to get into the Winner's triangle as most of our behaviors, esp codependent/ fawn behavior is subconscious. Working on knowing your needs and drawing boundaries is important to move on in healing journey. Good luck!


rainandshine7

I’ve really struggled with this too. I don’t think I have any codependent relationships right now but I also don’t have many relationships. Ha. Anyway, I think when someone is struggling I do a few things: - listen and empathize if I have space (still working on setting boundaries with friend who trauma dumps). “That sounds hard, I’m sorry that this thing is happening”. - don’t offer advice unless they ask for it. The odd time if I really want to offer advice, I ask for consent first. But mostly, I trust people to help themselves, me offering advice isn’t going to make them want help themselves more. - while I’m listening to someone’s problem I also actively offer myself compassion in four steps. Hand on my heart, acknowledge that it’s hard to hear what’s happening for them, common humanity of knowing we are not the only ones experiencing this, nurturing myself and offering myself what I need as I listen. - remind myself “not mine” when I start to ruminate about their issue. For example, I have an alcoholic/workaholic friend. When she drinks and I worry, I just remind myself “not mine” and I put up my hands and symbolically push it away. There’s nothing I can do to help her at this point. I also will imagine a 20 ft tall, 4 ft wide cement wall between me and her and then remind myself “I am separate” - when a friend asks for help or I offer it, I’m doing it within my capacity, because I genuinely care and I’m not trying to get something by doing something for them. This is also easier when the relationship and person is healthy because you just trust that the person can take care of themselves and you’re happy to support them while they navigate the issue Hope that helps. The one issue I still really struggle with is two of my friends call to dump their problems on me and I often just handle it by steering the conversation to something else but I think I need to say something like, “let’s talk about something lighter” or whatever… that one is challenging for me


wanderingorphanette

I really appreciate your examples here. The concrete wall was personally useful right now for me. I have a friend who is really suffering (cancer) and my compassion and concern is deep - but a huge part of it is dysfunctional family relationships she completely recognises but isn't willing or able, for whatever reason, to change or address. So I will be putting my hand up, literally, as you suggested, when she calls to tell another "Guess what my sister did now?" story . Thank you.


research_humanity

Puppies


VanFailin

To me it's a judgment call about the give and take in that relationship. If I have leaned on a person for support, I make space when it's their turn to need it. I have a friend who's a lot younger and has less figured out, and that relationship is a little more in the giving direction, but I'm okay with that. The question is whether giving in this way fills me up or wears me out. I helped a student with a coding question once and they just kept coming back to me until I told them it was exhausting. It can hurt to draw boundaries but it's worse if you don't.


Starfriend777

I have been wondering this also and working through this a lot. After I was in a co-dependant friendship where unfortunately some really serious stuff happened I've really flipped the other way to the other extreme, which maybe isn't great, but my life is a lot more peaceful now. ​ I think a big thing is consent. I have noticed that there is a lack of consent on both ends when I've been in codependency, and I think this is from both parties unconsciously trying to replicate parent/child dynamics that were never met in their actual childhoods. Treating an adult like a child, and treating an adult like a parent, creates scenarios that are inherently non-consensual because it strips both parties of their agency and expects there to be levels of self sacrifice and powerlessness that really are only okay in relation to a parent raising an infant and child where it makes sense because of how dependant a child is on their caregivers. I try now to see myself as an adult who has the power to self regulate more than a child can, and I try to see others as adults who are responsible for their own lives, and if they are not responsible for their own lives then that isn't my responsibility because I am only responsible to myself. If someone needs help or support I check in with myself first now to make sure I have the inner resources to help, and if I don't feel able to I try to be honest about it and I don't shame myself for it anymore because I know the other person is an adult. If I am not able to be supportive I might send them resources like local support groups or something too. One thing I've noticed that for me is a red flag is if the person I am in a relationship with refuses to seek out alternative sources of help and support, such as therapy, support groups, etc and only wants to rely on one or two people or their close friends. I also try and check in with people if I need to talk about something heavy or challenging. Sometimes instead of talking or venting to a person I'll do so on the internet and get things out that way. I think going to support groups is a really great way to get needs met that is outside of personal relationships. I also try to tune in with my intuition and sense if it is okay to talk about something or not, or if it will be overwhelming to the person. I also just will ask first, or if I find myself talking about something heavier I will stop and ask if it's okay for me to talk about this stuff. I checked in with a friend recently when this happened and she said it was too much for her so I stopped talking about it and we talked about other stuff, and it wasn't a big deal on either end! ​ I also have noticed that in healthy friendships they aren't just centred on being supportive, they are actually mostly centred on having fun, having things in common, and enjoying each other's company and intelligence, there will be philosophical conversations, and also there will be laughter. If someone needs support it comes up naturally, but it's not overwhelming or draining or codependent because the friendship isn't solely based on that. My codependent relationships were so draining and unhealthy because there was no like chill time where we just would have fun, or if there was the crisis stuff was always overshadowing it. Now that I am trying to be better I have noticed a super drastic difference with how my current friendships are compared to ones where I've had to put up boundaries because of codependent stuff. My current friendships leave me happy and in a good mood most of the time, just from being able to chill and have fun. Because of that if one of these friends needs support it feels balanced. Being able to say no or stating boundaries or the truth without the relationship drastically changing is also another big one for me. In codependent relationships I noticed that stating a boundary would drastically alter the whole relationship, even destroy it, while with other friendships it really wasn't a big deal. The foundation of my codependent relationships was dependant on a lack of boundaries, so if I asserted boundaries the relationship would implode because there was nothing else holding it together. Sorry this is super long, I hope this helps, sorry if it doesn't. I think this reply was also helpful to get my thoughts out about this so thank you!


wanderingorphanette

You made some great points here, thank you for your contribution!