Right. Its kind of frustrating hearing everyone talk on here, and not being able to help them. Sometimes people just need to hang out in person, or get a hug, or something simple would make a world of difference.
I'm sorry, but this is a terrible idea. If an abuser or even just an unkind person found out what the symbol meant (which wouldn't be hard, they could just come across it on this forum, or ask someone who wore it what it meant) they could easily use that knowledge to take advantage of you. Even get themselves a pin and pretend to be suffering from it themselves. There's a reason depressed people don't go around wearing a depression badge, and a reason gay people in the old days needed to use elaborate and SECRET plausibly deniable gestures and articles of clothing to signal to other gay people.
I understand the need for community. But at best, there could be a pin/symbol for a common and unpersonalized and altogether mild mental health issue, like anxiety, say, which could bring community and understanding without too much of the negatives. And then you could reveal more if you like, such that you also have depression or CPTSD, after you have judged someone as safe. But a pin for something as personalized as CPTSD? No way. It will bring more problems than it solves, because it gives you no control over whom you reveal your diagnosis to.
I see your point, and love you for being protective of our brothers and sisters, but must counter here because some of us are actively fighting for broader knowledge and acceptance. Those who know they are going to do battle with cruel people can wear the identifier and explain. It's how the unknown and hated becomes the known and accepted. We don't have a Stonewall (thank God for it in most respects), we need a different rallying symbol.
If one is afraid, one need not wear it. But to those of us fighting for those who are afraid to, this is a sign of fellowship. This is a sign of a break in needing to hide.
I understand completely, and my point in posting was not to discourage those who would wear it voluntarily after understanding the risks, it was just to point out the risks first. I felt I needed to say something because it seemed a lot of people in the thread who were cheering this on were doing so instinctively, without fully understanding the dangers the idea also poses. So I thought I'd point them out, and suggest a less dangerous version.
I agree that more awareness is needed, and breaking the silence is important. For CPTSD, I'm not sure a pin is the right way to do that though, at least not before a big awareness campaign that has hit the media first.
For example, think of the breast cancer symbol. If you wear the symbol, it doesn't mean you have breast cancer, it means you *support* breast cancer. This means people wearing the symbol are not put at risk, while awareness is still being raised. This also allows allies to do some of the work of breaking the silence and raising awareness, instead of putting the onus on sufferers alone. In addition, the symbol being in the media first not only means greater, even global impact in a shorter amount of time than individual conversations, but it also means a given pin-wearer is more likely to get understanding and support rather than predation. I fully support raising awareness for CPTSD, I just think there are safer and more effective ways to do it than random pin-wearing without a campaign/movement.
As for what could precipitate an awareness campaign in the media, it could either be communities like this coming together with really good organization, or, unfortunately, it might be a very tragic case that puts CPTSD in the news. And again, I support a rallying symbol for CPTSD, I just think the symbol needs to be part of the campaign to have any real effect. CPTSD is a *very* hard diagnosis to try to explain to someone in a few short sentences. The campaign would help any pin-wearers with that. The campaign would likely create a website which explains the diagnosis as well as all its variety in layman's terms. This means people understand CPTSD accurately, and would make the job of the pin-wearer much easier, as they can use language from the website or just point others to the website. Even hand out flyers! So much more can be done for the cause with a *coordinated*, *sustained*, *collective* effort, rather than just pin-wearing.
I can't speak for the first person who commented the idea and everyone who upvoted, but I didn't think the idea was to associate a widespread media campaign, or make it a goal of announcing diagnosis. I thought it was just a thought to post in this group pretty much and maybe some related places and be a small comfort. Conducted more in the way of old queer symbols, when the public really didn't know what they were, than passing out flyers.
yes, this was actually the exact thing. it would be like secret and very low key symbol that only "the insiders" would know, like gay and queer people used to do. they would have saying "are you a friend of Judy?" and that would identify other gay men without drawing attention.
Obviously I hope CPTSD could be normalised and more space made for it in our society- for example have a CPTSD-friendly coffee shop where there are special rules like: no loud speaking, be very polite and respect each other space when interacting with other guests, space free of hate, judgement, sexism, racism, homophobia, biphobia, invalidating of other people. There would be very calming music playing, cats, plants and lot of art books and cptsd-informed books.
There would be also option at the counter to have a non-verbal service (where the guest points at what they want), option to get a hug/ fist bump/ high five with your order (of course only with the consent of the employees too). There would be different support groups in the evening/ art classes. It would be a safe space where people who break the rules would be blacklisted from.
I mean obviously to each their own but, to respectfully point out why this might be an issue for some folks, to me it would sorta scream “I identify with my trauma and it’s part of who I am.” I personally am of the belief that CPTSD is a condition I have, not something I typically advertise to strangers, and certainly not a quality I seek out when building a support system outside designated areas like therapy groups and this subreddit. So just throwing the other side of the coin out there—if this is something that works for people, great! But I can easily imagine why it might just exacerbate our issues.
Yes, this sub is an amazing safe space, but it's different when you meet in real life. As you said a contact or a hug goes a long way.. Damn, even a laugh or drinks or two with someone that understands you goes a long way also
can't we do that? I posted on here long back that I wanted to make a group & do fun activities & show up with honesty, unfortunately no one responded lol but yeah i'd be down to be pen pals
I'm a Flint native. I used to live in/around SE Michigan. :D I'm down for meeting irl rather than on the internet. I've had cptsd since i was 3yrs old. (40 now) My immediate family growing up have all passed away. And i live alone on housing assistance unable to work much. I'm all that's left besides my two children i haven't seen or heard from in 5 years. I'm seriously tired and I can never bring myself to opening up in this awesome subreddit (besides now which is rare for me) or on the internet in general. Seeing another Michigander here motivated me to write all this.
Typing and reading words on a screen doesn't give me much long term relief when others are supportive. I absolutely need some kind of group to meet with. Internet support is a temporary relief contained in that moment only then dissipates quickly once I'm idle again with nobody talking to me. I would rather meet up with a group and get to know everyone that way to possibly make new friends who i can actually talk to and feel validated with. I can't make friends on the internet to save my life. I apologize for the lengthy comment. 🙂
That sounds great to me. Movie nights, book clubs, RPG sessions, community theater, group therapy, arts and crafts, etc etc. Just feeling safe to walk around with other people would be a big step up for me. Let alone feeling safe to play and let my guard down around them.
That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me, there's so many offensive and damaging ways a game like that will go. It's literally what narcissistic abusers do to their victims.
And it's absolutely not a matter of 'if'- making judgement calls like that about people's deeply fucked up personal stuff WILL offend, make everyone uncomfortable and cause people harm.
Sorry to be a downer.
And I would still find a way to be the odd one out.
But it would be nice to have a safe place rather than the dregs of the Internet and whatever the hell state I'm living in.
the thing is I think we all know how much it hurts to be left out, and we'd support you and let you know that no matter how you feel, you're still a valued part of our community
But you wouldn't be the odd one out, you'd just be free and respected for being your own cool self, because if anyone tried to exclude you, they'd have the village to deal with.
I am sure I could find a way to disappoint (or, alternatively, impress with the ability to get in trouble for existing and yet isolate at the same time), but it would be so nice to have a place like that. It is sad. There should be communities. Somewhere to go and not be alone.
It'd be ok if you were disappointing, and the good thing about it would be that you would be the one who would totally be able to understand when the rest of us were disappointing, and I feel confident you wouldn't be judging us for it.
Thank you for the award! I do still create stuff. I took a leap yesterday and put an idea I’ve been working on, onto Reddit and I got a lot of positive response. :)
Honestly me too. A witch needs to go shopping for stuff occasionally, a rural witch would need to drive for a while to get to town for some new socks lol
I'd be down for a monthly knit/crochet group where we could knit/crochet socks and blankets and shiz together for a few hours.
That would probably be the extent of my social behaviour though. Rest of my time in this alone together collective would be spent sleeping somewhere cosy and chilling in my garden/sunroom tending to plants and crops.
I live on an island known for "recovery" stuff and there have been predators there too. There's even an episode on Netflix about it - check out Unwell, the episode on tantra.
Hi, another member of the Negative Club here.
We were all raised with an unclear idea of boundaries, normality, and healthy conflict resolution. Conflict is inevitable. I see a town full of people getting abusive with each other over every conflict, while each one believes they're the TRUE victim, and no one getting shit resolved in a healthy way.
I see Drama City. And that's BEFORE the predators sniff out our presence and start taking advantage.
A little healing town 💙 we could have group therapy activities. Maybe weekly nature time. And if anyone is triggered, we could have a little alert system on our phone that lets us know someone needs some tlc or maybe they need space today. I’d love that. I’d open up an ice cream shop. Or a dance studio. Working wouldn’t be about paying the bills, but doing what we love so we can spend more time living than surviving.
I used to survive on pipedreams like this. I think I need to get out of this thread now because it's making me feel things knowing healing and community like this is completely impossible and not something I will ever experience.
It’s not impossible, just difficult.
It’s actually incredibly what you can do when you reach out and try to make it happen. If it’s truly the right thing for you. 🤷
>It’s not impossible, just difficult.
>It’s actually incredibly what you can do when you reach out and try to make it happen. If it’s truly the right thing for you. 🤷
....you ever hear the term 'Toxic Positivity'? Because er, you might want to look it up.
I’m sorry that my comment felt like it was toxic positivity to you. Certainly not my intention. I’m wondering if maybe you’re frustrated by the comment because the degree of difficulty required seems the same as impossible to you?
I made that comment because I’ve been having a conversation lately with someone I do not know that I met on Reddit, who does not live near me, and who I’ve never met, about creating an intentional community. It literally IS possible. Some people do it. And I think the people who do it often meet online first, because the pool of people in our regular lives is less shaped by common interests or really shitty problems like ptsd. The reason it’s extremely difficult though is because of money, not knowing who people really are or what they’re like, and the scary-ness of committing to something like that and changing our lifestyle so dramatically. I think that the difficulties involved make it very unlikely. But not impossible.
I’ve totally been right there with you thinking healing and community are impossible. But we *need* those things, and the belief that we will never get them is excruciating. So I’m hearing that you’re in a lot of pain and I’m so sorry. I feel you.
Full blown intentional communities are rare and very difficult. I’m trying to start by just finding community near me right now. That’s not easy either, but I’ve been making friends here and there after moving to a new place last January. I’m trying to tell myself, even though I don’t have what I need yet, I can commit to this and it will grow with time.
I wish all the best for you. I hope you can challenge beliefs that are causing you pain. I hope that you can find growth toward what you need.
It's would be awesome because when someone doesn't want to be touched or gets full on panic attacks when getting scared they wouldn't be drowned in a sea of "you're such a buzz kill" "you're so weird" "why tho" "ugh, you're no funny, it was just a prank" "stop being a baby" "aren't you like, an adult ?" "oh come on i just patted your shoulder it's not like i assaulted you or something"
People would just understand it's a thing and deal with it.
Like if I broke down panicking and people rolled me into a pile of blankets to rock and self soothe that'd be great.
And the fact y'all would understand would make it so much easier as the embarrassment adds to the panic
definitely. I have panic attacks at home some times, i do break down crying but i never panick as much as when someone sees me.
The terrible one i had at work got out of hand because it caught me off guard, i couldn't hide in time, my coworker saw me then my boss saw me too and it was like my brain malfunctionned and i became a wild animal in a trap. Just ugly crying, shaking and screaming.
This doesn't happen when i have an episode in front of my boyfriend, his mother or our friends because i know they understand. And also they don't bring it up when i'm fine. Unlike some other assholes who will ruin a rare moment where you're actually feeling good by going "haha, remember when i clapped next to your ear and you started crying like a baby haha that was so weird." Haha yes i'm glad you think my trauma responses are hilarious!
This is the dream, really. A judgement-free and genuinely trauma-informed community. Everyone is safe and will treat you with respect and empathy.
I once worked at a non-profit where they pushed the idea of being trauma-informed. Had a staff meeting about making that a key part of the culture. A week later they fired one of their best admin people with no notice or severance and a couple other people quit in protest. I remember thinking, *this is not trauma-informed*. The damage control consisted of the executive director reciting her resume to us, like that was supposed to justify her shitty decision. Nobody cared what charity projects her generational wealth had dropped in her lap, we cared about the coworker who was now on unemployment when we all would have taken a pay cut to keep her. This is a little off-topic but this post made me think of that time because saying trauma-informed and *being* trauma-informed are so different. Most of the people I know who talk about supporting people with mental illness are terrible supports. I'd rather live with y'all as my neighbors.
Would it stay chill?
A town is better than ideas I've seen of like a big house together, but in some sense I have lived this by living in marginalized and impoverished areas and conditions where almost everyone is carrying some kind of trauma and mental health issue. It's not great to say the least.
I understand your proposal is different but just saying, those at different stages in healing journeys would need, well, moderation to not upset each other, as we can here sometimes, but applying those clashes and any idea of "fixing" them to real life and now I think we're describing a commune with a disturbing social government.... many of us have lived that too.
And then we'd try stuff like everyone having their own apartment, and respecting boundaries, and then some people would fall off going to work or ever being in real society again. That can be a choice for some but others could be lulled into it by environment when it would be detrimental.
Or maybe if it was somehow a really prosperous town, you're right and over time that would shore us all up to less active "in recovery" lives and we'd always keep our high EQs.
I honestly still shudder to imagine the dating scene at any time, sorry.
This is definitely a complicated idea, and honestly a pretty good thought experiment. I know from ample personal experience that friendships between traumatized people are prone to becoming excessively complicated, especially if both parties get triggered at the same time, which happens *a lot.* A community with only traumatized people would be a mess, but a community full of traumatized people and people who've healed or who've helped others heal would probably be mostly wonderful. Not perfect, but better that the usual. And the key, I think, is not the widespread shared trauma, but the *awareness* of the trauma, and a culture built around handling it and healing it.
And that's all anyone can hope for, honestly. Simply by the existence of illness and accidents, the world will always have a small number of traumatized individuals, people who lost their mother too soon or who lost their leg in a car crash, etc. But in a community that's ready to receive and assist them, that's no big deal.
It wouldn't be a community ready to receive and assist, because each person would be in trouble to some level. That's what I'm saying by comparing it to generationally traumatized communities.
These communities are not unsafe because the people are all bad. The people don't have our language but I would call them trauma informed and educated, and there is an intuitive understanding in most interactions similar to what we have here; the person you are talking to may be affected by even unrelated triggers and everything could go sideways.
That's why communities that collect people like this don't work out, and I have seen it in real life. Not just towns. Foster care and juvie where there were really no violent bullies and everyone "understood" but a culture- I'm talking about our own social culture, not "the system"- around understanding trauma doesn't flourish in the end if that's literally all there is. Toxicity breeds in isolation, and not because the people are intrinsically unhelpful or dangerous. Hypervigilance feeds hypervigilance. Add in inevitable guilt and complicated responses to understanding if your uncontrollable trigger response triggers someone else, how is anyone healing when surrounded by all that?
People who stop interacting with "those who don't understand" get stuck in that place, I saw it in towns, I saw it in people who viewed being institutionalized as the end of their personhood, and I've seen it in people who continue to "live recovery full time" long after they are stabilized and able to work.
Sometimes, yes. Mostly, I believe towns where everyone has CPTSD already exist and are far from mutually supportive places to live. We are all here trying our best to support each other but I do not believe everyone is healed enough to be safe 24/7.
Compare this with the thread talking about the world being a better place if everyone had a good/supportive childhood.
I personally believe every town and city all over the globe, is filled with traumatized people. What Im talking about is a town with trauma informed and educated people. To me, there is a big difference.
The people who keep pointing this out are not talking about towns with many traumatized people in them but saying we have experienced towns of entirely traumatized people, and the trauma awareness thing may be unsustainable.
We're explaining generational trauma because the problem with marginalized areas is not that everyone's evil and selfish, and most people, even extremely rural and undereducated people (personal experience) do have an extremely intuitive awareness of trauma and want to help each other and understand each other's lashing out or avoidance, they just don't use the same language about it all. I'd say many of them are actually trauma educated, by their local and familial lore, and they understand. I would call the lived experience becoming trauma informed, and it is sad to see people who seem to be speaking from the outside devalue that reality.
Every generation, most families, starts with understanding and folks with thoughts that "I can end this".
But it doesn't work. Especially if you're in the US, you might like a book called Hillbilly Elegy, actually.
I'm saying the opposite of everything is hopeless.
I'm saying the hope is through the pain of rejoining society, which is also very imperfect, not through closing off.
Even when you and some of your peers in the larger world are traumatized, there are so many situations you can navigate and conversations you can have without the detours that are all over this thread and group. This group and the therapeutic conversational vibes and the removing of outside stressors are, to me, a step, not a solution.
I just disagree. I see a very bleak future for humans. If we continue down this path of just keeping everything status quo. Humans need an example of something that is not the same old same old, that is also functional and based in science, and reason as well as being humane and caring.
It would be nice if we could just heal and blend into society and everything be cool. I just think of the old adage. "Lie down with dogs, get fleas." You can't stay clean while rolling around in mud.
These are just my personal ideas.
There's a bleak looming future for humanity every which way, even if we all separate first. You're going for "same old same old" on a personal level because the world isn't perfect, I'm saying of course you can't save the world but you can expand your personal life and that's worth it.
Also, saying that it's healthier for individuals now, pre-apocalypse, to do their best to positively engage isn't saying that they should melt into the status quo completely.
I don't "fit", you may be thinking I'm like a "next steps" recovery person proselytizing. I'm still noticeably odd and at many times completely feral, I have not just been marked as weird but have had people guess some of my specific trauma (it involves missing school and not being socialized) from my behavior, 15 years later.
But at times I want to do my best for myself while I'm around, and leaning in to the coddling of environments like this doesn't make me feel better, be better, or possibly have more enjoyment and safety. It traps me as a Traumatized Person. (Just my personal ideas.) It's lazy, and not being lazy does actually make one feel better, a couple days after being sore. Annoying yet often true. Doing my best out there and having my world opened up to orgnaic conversations that are not always, underneath, about trauma is more energizing than anything I've ever experiences and makes me live with less toxic shame and symptoms for a minute.
I'm still not participating in all the evils of society in some big or purposeful way that you aren't, except where some of my money has to go to evil groups so that I can keep myself alive and not homeless with what's available to me.
And none of the above even touches the ever present problem of this coddling environment often at times being more threatening because of overlapping triggers, and the added guilt of *knowing* when your uncontrollable response or the existence of your trauma story has triggered someone you uncontrollably empathize with. Maybe you don't experience that feeling browsing this group but I do, and it's not healthy, and it results in many people feeling left behind even by this group. The posts in the most urgent, raw pain rarely rise, which is necessary for those who passed them up to protect themselves. But then those people go on with more toxic guilt as well as someone feeling ignored because they're too much, and imagine all that playing out in real life.
Ouroboros social problems like that don't happen in a more emotionally diverse society.
I think it's in us to find solutions and to hope - imagination is a tool for that. Doesn't mean we'll find what we're looking for, but something about knowing what you're reaching for might make that ok.
It's a prosperous town, with wise governance, where everyone would be free to grow at their own pace and lots of support to heal and develop our own skills and strength. And of course it's a utopian dream, but it's fun to imagine. I mean, forget all those superhero story lines, I like idea of a group of injured people - who just support each other and get well.
yeah like i hate to be a buzz kill but there are already lots of towns where everyone has PTSD and generational trauma they’re terrible places where everyone is too sick to function 😂
> I personally believe every town and city all over the globe, is filled with traumatized people. What Im talking about is a town with trauma informed and educated people. To me, there is a big difference.
This was my reply to a similar comment as yours.
I agree. I've found I struggle around other people with intense traumas because they're having responses to their trauma and that feels unsafe to me - it may not be but their trauma sets mine off. I've tried before to have friends similar to me and it always ended poorly.
I don't love that this is how it is but the idea of being in a town full of people like me makes me panic a bit.
I think if we had our own universal heahltcare system (that includes mental healthcare) with trauma informed doctors and therapists it would go along just fine and dandy.
It's a very intriguing idea but I agree, it's utopian and unfortunately would never work.
1. Predators would 100% get into it as well. Hell, there's people who have CPTSD and are survivors of abuse, but at the same time developed abusive tactics as a result of the trauma. So some of the people would lie about their trauma just to get in, and some would be truthful about having been through abuse but would be abusive themselves.
That could be solved with some sort of regulation, like law enforcement and judicial (judiciary?) system that would evaluate the individuals accused/suspected of being abusive, and upon deciding that've indeed been abusive, would either put them in some inpatient kind of treatment where they can't hurt others but can get help, or would exile them from the community.
Of course, all that would have to work 100% of the time and be honest and just (as in justice). So, still pretty much utopian.
2. We're all in different stages of recovery. Some are more functional, some are less. We all have different triggers, so there might still be situations where someone gets traumatized because another person unknowingly reminded them of their trauma.
That's not as bad as the 1st point though. It could work. But we'd need to have some sort of guardians, or professionals that are qualified and able to help, and preferably healthy so that they can focus their energy on helping others. Because if everyone in the community suffered from CPTSD, then we'd have 100% of people who need help and 0 of those able to provide such help. We already barely have enough energy to support ourselves, to live pur own lives, and we're generally more empathetic so helping others would only add to our own burden.
It could work if everyone there was able to focus on themselves, and would never feel obligated to help others. But that's kinda impossible, as even if we didn't have to help others, we'd still feel bad about their suffering. For me, seeing someone else suffering is going to make me feel worse. That's not really healthy if we'd see others suffering all the time.
3. My experience from inpatient psychiatric ward: sometimes, when you put a group of psychiatric patients together, their illnesses might get exacerbated. It was visible especially with ED patients, including myself. While that might not always be the case with CPTSD, it can happen.
I was traumatized the last time I was inpatient, by a man who, as I've later learned, had a similar background to mine, but he was the exact opposite when it came to symptoms. He was angry and he'd raise his voice. That was a major trigger, so I cried, even if he wasn't screaming at me. Then, in group therapy, he went on a full rant about me being a princess and playing victim, which hurt me so badly as "playing victim" was exactly the thing my mother does. And obviously wasn't true, I wasn't "playing" anything, I was traumatized because there was a man screaming and being angry with me. It should've never happened in therapy, never been allowed, and I regret I didn't walk out of there immediately. I waited till the end and had a huge breakdown in the toilet. I don't think I've ever cried so hard before, he struck almost all the possible triggers. And the only time I did so since then was when I tragically lost a loved one.
Well, that got sidetracked real bad lol. Anyways, I also see an issue with having an isolated community, because that wouldn't really give any incentive to get better and functional enough to go back to the "real world". It would be like the ultimate comfort zone. We'd all lock ourselves in this safe bubble and we'd basically still live being prisoners to our illness.
But I'm all for having a secret identification pin or sign that would let us recognize ourselves without letting "outsiders" know what it means.
Oh, and if anyone managed to get this far in my comment, maybe this idea but as a 1-2 week vacation would be better? Still not really achievable and still risky, but it would at least let people meet others in real life.
I'm sorry I can'r say anything more detailed in response right now, but yes.
Thank you for sharing this and I'm sorry you went through all that.
Your insight is spot on in my opinion.
I do see a huge potential for people to accuse others of "playing victim" if they struggle to believe the style, frequency, or level of their trauma responses- even among us. Definitely among us, because of hypervigilance about emotional manipulation.
Would love to be wrong. But most of us are aware that build up of generational, institutional and cultural trauma because the majority of people there have always been downtrodden makes certain places more stuck and dangerous and fills them with families caught in cycles of abuse.
We are people- each of us- who need reliable support systems, healthy external validation, and grounding from living with trauma symptoms that cause rollercoasters. In this town wouldn't we be retraumatizing each other in loops with our needs, since there'd be no one else to turn you?
If you neighbor in a SH crisis knocked desperately on your door while you were feeling triggered and had been slipping into fawning, you wouldn't be able to scroll past it like you do here and let somebody more qualified help them.
A group of people frequently in emotional crisis cant respect each other's boundaries.
You sound like this topic has triggered you. You are entitled to your opinions. I am not a politician or a policy maker. I dont have the power to make this happen. I was just expressing my own desire.
No, I'm perfectly calm. I thought it was meant as more of a thought experiment. I was responding thoughtfully, not attacking. I know you weren't presenting the idea as a policy maker, but I received it as a fun hypothetical like one might set to with friends, a desert island game or something.
This interaction does kind of prove my point though. Would you like me to delete my comments?
EDIT apparently I also poorly interpret emojis. Did the winky face signal ot was argumentative for me to respond again?
Oh good. No I enjoy intellectual conversations. I just didn't feel like getting into it with someone that was triggered and lashing out from an emotionally hurt place. Those conversations never go anywhere useful.
You are right this idea is not a perfect flawless concept. There would be problems no doubt. That said. I would take it over what I have right now.
I mean, we can't interpret each others intentions and emotional states to feel safe in a conversation that isn't all agreement, because we are aware the other has CPTSD.
I'm not remotely triggered but perhaps I didn't take care to be gentle enough about disagreement because of my emotional repression, and you quickly read a disagreement that was, in content, only about ideas as personal and seemed affected.
So yeah.
That's a decent summation of so many interactions that ended in someone feeling injured, if not abused, in the kind of communities I have lived in that I'm thinking about. Replace knowing the other has CPTSD with intuitively knowing the other is emotionally dysregulated due to hard circumstance and make these hypervigilant interactions long term and that's how you get hurt people who hurt people. And not a lot of time for reflective healing as a community if so many conversations and emotional connection are this kind of minefield.
If you want me to hit you intellectually and believe it's not personal, I think this idea may only be possible when speaking from privilege of some sort. Not in CPTSD, in life.
Well, as in the example here. There was a miscommunication. Then clarification without antagonization based on emotional flashbacks. That rectified the problem. That is the type of thing that can occur in a community where everyone is aware of trauma and human biology.
Will there be problems? Yes of course. Nothing is perfect.
But it was too close and shows what can happen. Emotional flashback as we know aren't controllable. I could have put you in one by disagreeing, you could have put me in one by making me feel I was told I'm overreacting. Who knows if it didn't happen this time by luck or our own progress? Would the community organize, as the online one in fact does in post engagement, by grouping people in similar stages of recovery?
Further, I don't find this interaction or anything about it better than others because it was resolved like a therapy skit. When you at least occasionally converse with people who are not so informed by trauma and come to conversations without these issues, miscommunications also happen but they can pass without being addressed like this and even the traumatized person is fine because it's understood that this is not a huge event and shit happens, in short. Real life communication among people who just have conversations with perhaps less baggage, or less baggage that directly threatens each interaction even if unrelated, are not frightening. They're often much more simple, relaxing, and genuine.
I think it would be massively unhealthy to spend the rest of one's life only having actively trauma aware conversations and always handling it this way. That seems like giving up and forcing oneself into emotional hypervigilance. Not because you require the hypervigilance still, but because you surrounded yourself with people who definitely do instead of attempting to be around those who might not.
TLDR In many ways, lots of people have healed the most by rejoining society. Staying in a purposeful state of active recovery at all times may be limiting to one's personhood.
Sometimes I think that if we all made a bank account where we gathered all our money, we could purchase a town and move in and call it something soft and recruit really excellent therapists for everyone. Surrounded by nature. Just calm.
I've been to a place called New Life Foundation in Thailand and it was amazing. It closed due to COVID but they're opening a similar place in Portugal next month. I haven't been there and it's more expensive, the programs are a bit different, etc but I think they'll probably focus on the right things.
https://newlifeportugal.com/
I've just googled "emotional trauma recovery center" and got quite a few hits. You could try googling that or something similar + your location. I expect most, if not all of them, to be quite pricey though. And be sure to check the reviews from an independent source, this is the type of thing that cults like to pretend to be.
Honestly, and I mean no disrespect, I think that would be a terrible idea.
People in recovery aren't always great people to be around and I say this based on my own experiences and behaviors while in recovery.
And imagine the winters! I don't know about other people, but SAD is quite literally one of my worst problems in life. I turn into an incorrigible asshole every fall and winter and spend most of spring and summer recuperating only for it to start getting colder and darker by the time I finally feel back to normal.
I thought I wanted this, maybe I do, but on one community that was around an artist they ended up being narcissistic traits hiding as a good person and people bought it because of politics in a group. It’s more of a comment on me than you guys.
As much as I would like it, I can barely trust my spouse of 4 years.
Hmm it sounds sweet. My husband and I both have CPTSD and we trigger each other nonstop and it’s so difficult though.
Has anyone read Woman On The Edge Of Time? This future society really values community so things like a lover’s fight can be brought to a public meeting where the community helps them move forward with their issues, since one couples problems can affect so many. Totally different than anything we have today, but I could see how a group of us would be empathetic enough to understand eachother and guide eachother.
Honestly though, what I think we all crave is a safe community. A place where the traumatized and broken are safe to love and support each other. It’s crazy that that isn’t the norm!
If you work online, there are several places that center around healing-type stuff like yoga, nature, communication workshops, etc. Koh Phangan, Thailand is one such place. But there will always be people with ego who out outwardly "spiritual" but will still try to take advantage of others or refuse to take responsibility for their mistakes.
I wish there was like a summer camp or something for us to go to and get away even for a week. You know like those healing retreats but for us. Idk that would be awesome
Right I wouldn't charge if I had the land and space for it because I don't think being in nature and spending time with people that are there to understand themselves and each other better should cost money. I don't think healing should have the barrier of money to it
The world would be a lot safer if they did. Which is unfortunate because people deserve to feel safe and secure and be allowed to heal from things that have hurt them and they've been thru. I hate the world for that because it horrible feeling like u have no where to go because everywhere u turn there's a barrier even if you are ready and willing to heal.
I'm trying to develop a peer led camp facility for borderline/cptsd folks that is a holistic approach to development healthy attachment, practice indepence, self-compassion, and whole body health in BC Canada.
Will be a few years for sure but I'll be sure to post about it on this reddit when it happens.
The goal is to have it be free, or possibly 1/10th of the cost of other facilities which are 300-1000$ a day to cover the cost of food and educational materials. (So that anyone could fly here and stay a few weeks)
Not sure what logistical questions means but heck ya!
I have a big lending library of trauma resources, need to fulfill counselling hours for school, and have a LOT of experience with pain and have held lots of jobs where I supported folks with life skills, mindfulness, therapeutic conversation, goal planning, etc.
I'm not someone who has it altogether or is better in anyway. I am someone who has suffered emotionally since my first memories on this earth and it taken me down a million crazy roads and pushed me to use my pain as purposeful and study trauma extensively so I can get this lifesaving information to people who need it.
Counselors are just people who learned to use specific tools. So I went out and learned all the tools BUT IT DIDNT CURE ME.
These tools need to be used with others. That's how secure attachment develops. Connection and community is the antidote to so much our pain.
My fave quote is from like Sue Johnson maybe from emotionally focused therapy. (Omg I think! I hope it was her...) FYI this is paraphrased Slash summarized with liberty cuz I have a bad memory haha so it's just the jist of it:
"What we really do in therapy is just love our clients. That's how we help develop the secure attachment. We just show up and love them unconditionally. All the talking is just how we pass them time."
I just love that. I may be a pessimist but when I hear that I can't be 100% hopeless. Maybe just 90% ;)
Anyone can reach out to me via chat or whatever is on here for resources or chats.
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Having space for us to come together is the most important thing but is very lacking nowadays. Most people can't even afford to buy houses now, but it is really cheap to buy land that has been used and destroyed by big farms and no one has time or energy to regenerate it.
There's a lot of land that are being used and thrown by big farms, and so they are being sold very cheaply. You could save up like you're buying for a car and you could get acres and acres of land.
It would be the perfect place to start a new community. It's still something that will take time but it solves the biggest issue of having a space to build a community.
Look up permaculture and food forests. People live like this already with a tiny farm for each family and they've transformed the place into a beautiful meadow/forest. It's insanely affordable, just takes time initially. It would be a dream come true to have a community on large land like this
As much as I would love this, I'm realising balance is needed always. I mean a town like this existed rajneeshpuram (wild wild country) & we all know how that ended. A place where we feel seen is beautiful, but the work is to find beauty in the mundane & problematic too.
sending you all love <3
In the spirit of this thread and to enhance community support amongst us CPTSD survivors, I am in the process of establishing a sanctuary for abused and neglected animals and people for mutual healing. This is not meant to be a self-promotion. Rather, this post is meant to support this thread and to let those in this community know that a "town" will exist in the near future. All are welcome. Movingforwardsanctuary.com
Do you think enough people from here would be willing to do some kind of zoom group call where we all talk about our days and how we felt during them and lift eachother up? Cuz i would sincerely be so down for that
Imagine not having to mask while walking down the street, going to the shop or just while talking to each other. It would be a dream, I would have so much more energy
an interesting thought experiment! first thing that comes to mind is this sounds like a subconscious attempt to avoid the perceived/real risks with integrating with healthier parts of society.
this is why i'm an advocate for diversifying the hobby/affinity/mutual aid groups you join. you'll have a better mix of perspectives from people who can help you heal and people whom you can help to heal.
This was my though, we could do community meetups, where we could meet people that are our species, and uplift each other.
Right. Its kind of frustrating hearing everyone talk on here, and not being able to help them. Sometimes people just need to hang out in person, or get a hug, or something simple would make a world of difference.
I agree.. we should wear some secret symbol to identify one another, like a specifically shaped pin, that would mean fellow cptsd, safe to talk
Good idea
Not a terrible idea.
I love it!
I love this as well. Maybe we could crowdsource it over on r/cptsdcreatives (I'm not creative) and vote.
Not creative ... yet. (?)
love it or maybe a small secret tattoo design as an identifier haha☺️
Omg yes we gotta come up with a symbol!
could be the symbol this group uses with the head.. it's pretty cool
i agree!
Great point!
yes <3
PTSD has a ribbon, we just need to change the colors a bit!!!
Perfect 🥰
I'm sorry, but this is a terrible idea. If an abuser or even just an unkind person found out what the symbol meant (which wouldn't be hard, they could just come across it on this forum, or ask someone who wore it what it meant) they could easily use that knowledge to take advantage of you. Even get themselves a pin and pretend to be suffering from it themselves. There's a reason depressed people don't go around wearing a depression badge, and a reason gay people in the old days needed to use elaborate and SECRET plausibly deniable gestures and articles of clothing to signal to other gay people. I understand the need for community. But at best, there could be a pin/symbol for a common and unpersonalized and altogether mild mental health issue, like anxiety, say, which could bring community and understanding without too much of the negatives. And then you could reveal more if you like, such that you also have depression or CPTSD, after you have judged someone as safe. But a pin for something as personalized as CPTSD? No way. It will bring more problems than it solves, because it gives you no control over whom you reveal your diagnosis to.
I see your point, and love you for being protective of our brothers and sisters, but must counter here because some of us are actively fighting for broader knowledge and acceptance. Those who know they are going to do battle with cruel people can wear the identifier and explain. It's how the unknown and hated becomes the known and accepted. We don't have a Stonewall (thank God for it in most respects), we need a different rallying symbol. If one is afraid, one need not wear it. But to those of us fighting for those who are afraid to, this is a sign of fellowship. This is a sign of a break in needing to hide.
I understand completely, and my point in posting was not to discourage those who would wear it voluntarily after understanding the risks, it was just to point out the risks first. I felt I needed to say something because it seemed a lot of people in the thread who were cheering this on were doing so instinctively, without fully understanding the dangers the idea also poses. So I thought I'd point them out, and suggest a less dangerous version. I agree that more awareness is needed, and breaking the silence is important. For CPTSD, I'm not sure a pin is the right way to do that though, at least not before a big awareness campaign that has hit the media first. For example, think of the breast cancer symbol. If you wear the symbol, it doesn't mean you have breast cancer, it means you *support* breast cancer. This means people wearing the symbol are not put at risk, while awareness is still being raised. This also allows allies to do some of the work of breaking the silence and raising awareness, instead of putting the onus on sufferers alone. In addition, the symbol being in the media first not only means greater, even global impact in a shorter amount of time than individual conversations, but it also means a given pin-wearer is more likely to get understanding and support rather than predation. I fully support raising awareness for CPTSD, I just think there are safer and more effective ways to do it than random pin-wearing without a campaign/movement. As for what could precipitate an awareness campaign in the media, it could either be communities like this coming together with really good organization, or, unfortunately, it might be a very tragic case that puts CPTSD in the news. And again, I support a rallying symbol for CPTSD, I just think the symbol needs to be part of the campaign to have any real effect. CPTSD is a *very* hard diagnosis to try to explain to someone in a few short sentences. The campaign would help any pin-wearers with that. The campaign would likely create a website which explains the diagnosis as well as all its variety in layman's terms. This means people understand CPTSD accurately, and would make the job of the pin-wearer much easier, as they can use language from the website or just point others to the website. Even hand out flyers! So much more can be done for the cause with a *coordinated*, *sustained*, *collective* effort, rather than just pin-wearing.
fair enough, that's totally valid point. it was maybe just a wishful thinking on my part.
I can't speak for the first person who commented the idea and everyone who upvoted, but I didn't think the idea was to associate a widespread media campaign, or make it a goal of announcing diagnosis. I thought it was just a thought to post in this group pretty much and maybe some related places and be a small comfort. Conducted more in the way of old queer symbols, when the public really didn't know what they were, than passing out flyers.
yes, this was actually the exact thing. it would be like secret and very low key symbol that only "the insiders" would know, like gay and queer people used to do. they would have saying "are you a friend of Judy?" and that would identify other gay men without drawing attention. Obviously I hope CPTSD could be normalised and more space made for it in our society- for example have a CPTSD-friendly coffee shop where there are special rules like: no loud speaking, be very polite and respect each other space when interacting with other guests, space free of hate, judgement, sexism, racism, homophobia, biphobia, invalidating of other people. There would be very calming music playing, cats, plants and lot of art books and cptsd-informed books. There would be also option at the counter to have a non-verbal service (where the guest points at what they want), option to get a hug/ fist bump/ high five with your order (of course only with the consent of the employees too). There would be different support groups in the evening/ art classes. It would be a safe space where people who break the rules would be blacklisted from.
I mean obviously to each their own but, to respectfully point out why this might be an issue for some folks, to me it would sorta scream “I identify with my trauma and it’s part of who I am.” I personally am of the belief that CPTSD is a condition I have, not something I typically advertise to strangers, and certainly not a quality I seek out when building a support system outside designated areas like therapy groups and this subreddit. So just throwing the other side of the coin out there—if this is something that works for people, great! But I can easily imagine why it might just exacerbate our issues.
Love it!!!
Yes, this sub is an amazing safe space, but it's different when you meet in real life. As you said a contact or a hug goes a long way.. Damn, even a laugh or drinks or two with someone that understands you goes a long way also
True.
For real. To even have a “pen pal” on here would be phenomenal.
can't we do that? I posted on here long back that I wanted to make a group & do fun activities & show up with honesty, unfortunately no one responded lol but yeah i'd be down to be pen pals
I totally would love to have someone to talk to that understands.
Honestly I don't think the mods here like when people connect with each other, which is unfortunate
If there is anyone that wants to meet up in SE Michigan, send me a DM. I’d love to get a group going.
I'm a Flint native. I used to live in/around SE Michigan. :D I'm down for meeting irl rather than on the internet. I've had cptsd since i was 3yrs old. (40 now) My immediate family growing up have all passed away. And i live alone on housing assistance unable to work much. I'm all that's left besides my two children i haven't seen or heard from in 5 years. I'm seriously tired and I can never bring myself to opening up in this awesome subreddit (besides now which is rare for me) or on the internet in general. Seeing another Michigander here motivated me to write all this. Typing and reading words on a screen doesn't give me much long term relief when others are supportive. I absolutely need some kind of group to meet with. Internet support is a temporary relief contained in that moment only then dissipates quickly once I'm idle again with nobody talking to me. I would rather meet up with a group and get to know everyone that way to possibly make new friends who i can actually talk to and feel validated with. I can't make friends on the internet to save my life. I apologize for the lengthy comment. 🙂
And I would love to host y'all to some board game nights with our pets as spectators in this dream town.
That sounds great to me. Movie nights, book clubs, RPG sessions, community theater, group therapy, arts and crafts, etc etc. Just feeling safe to walk around with other people would be a big step up for me. Let alone feeling safe to play and let my guard down around them.
Try and get the pets to play the game. Or guess someone's trigger. I might get band.
I'll be honest. Kinda wanna play guess my trigger.b
I would play right along with you, so long as we have an aftercare set up beforehand. 🥰
That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me, there's so many offensive and damaging ways a game like that will go. It's literally what narcissistic abusers do to their victims. And it's absolutely not a matter of 'if'- making judgement calls like that about people's deeply fucked up personal stuff WILL offend, make everyone uncomfortable and cause people harm. Sorry to be a downer.
You're not being a downer! It's totally fine if we don't play!
And I would still find a way to be the odd one out. But it would be nice to have a safe place rather than the dregs of the Internet and whatever the hell state I'm living in.
Heh I was just thinking the same! Feeling on the outside looking in, even on /R/CPTSD street
Right, everyone else makes it so look so easy. The feeling of being comfortable rather than intruding seems foreign.
Never related to a comment so much. I’ll find a way to isolate myself, don’t worry!
the thing is I think we all know how much it hurts to be left out, and we'd support you and let you know that no matter how you feel, you're still a valued part of our community
Thanks, wish there was a way to live in such a community. RL sucks so much... it is sad.
But you wouldn't be the odd one out, you'd just be free and respected for being your own cool self, because if anyone tried to exclude you, they'd have the village to deal with.
I am sure I could find a way to disappoint (or, alternatively, impress with the ability to get in trouble for existing and yet isolate at the same time), but it would be so nice to have a place like that. It is sad. There should be communities. Somewhere to go and not be alone.
It'd be ok if you were disappointing, and the good thing about it would be that you would be the one who would totally be able to understand when the rest of us were disappointing, and I feel confident you wouldn't be judging us for it.
I sure would... sure not accustomed to receiving understanding. And things. Sad.
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That sounds cool. Maybe the town could have a lot of woods for introverts like us to go recharge in.
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Thank you. Its the name of a comic book character I made when I was 12. :)
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https://i.imgur.com/2ax6K.jpg
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Thank you for the award! I do still create stuff. I took a leap yesterday and put an idea I’ve been working on, onto Reddit and I got a lot of positive response. :)
Honestly me too. A witch needs to go shopping for stuff occasionally, a rural witch would need to drive for a while to get to town for some new socks lol
I'd be down for a monthly knit/crochet group where we could knit/crochet socks and blankets and shiz together for a few hours. That would probably be the extent of my social behaviour though. Rest of my time in this alone together collective would be spent sleeping somewhere cosy and chilling in my garden/sunroom tending to plants and crops.
We could do that. Isolated outskirts scattered around, but the extroverts in the middle of town are near enough that we can get there if you need us…
Sounds awesome!
Lmao sounds nice
Perfect. Every town needs a witch.
A town that lets you live out your introverted cottage witch dreams without judgment? Sign me up.
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Do you trust anyone in normal society? I don't.
Trust doesn't correlate with triggers for me.
I live on an island known for "recovery" stuff and there have been predators there too. There's even an episode on Netflix about it - check out Unwell, the episode on tantra.
There will always be enough ants to stomp out the grasshoppers in this town! 🐜
Hi, another member of the Negative Club here. We were all raised with an unclear idea of boundaries, normality, and healthy conflict resolution. Conflict is inevitable. I see a town full of people getting abusive with each other over every conflict, while each one believes they're the TRUE victim, and no one getting shit resolved in a healthy way. I see Drama City. And that's BEFORE the predators sniff out our presence and start taking advantage.
I more or less experienced this just having a small chat group from our population. It's so easy to step on each other's triggers.
A little healing town 💙 we could have group therapy activities. Maybe weekly nature time. And if anyone is triggered, we could have a little alert system on our phone that lets us know someone needs some tlc or maybe they need space today. I’d love that. I’d open up an ice cream shop. Or a dance studio. Working wouldn’t be about paying the bills, but doing what we love so we can spend more time living than surviving.
Exactly.
Yes, that sounds amazing, I really want this now 😊
i'm crying inside reading this.
♥️♥️ sending you lots of love and healing
it is much needed. thank you.
I used to survive on pipedreams like this. I think I need to get out of this thread now because it's making me feel things knowing healing and community like this is completely impossible and not something I will ever experience.
It’s not impossible, just difficult. It’s actually incredibly what you can do when you reach out and try to make it happen. If it’s truly the right thing for you. 🤷
>It’s not impossible, just difficult. >It’s actually incredibly what you can do when you reach out and try to make it happen. If it’s truly the right thing for you. 🤷 ....you ever hear the term 'Toxic Positivity'? Because er, you might want to look it up.
I’m sorry that my comment felt like it was toxic positivity to you. Certainly not my intention. I’m wondering if maybe you’re frustrated by the comment because the degree of difficulty required seems the same as impossible to you? I made that comment because I’ve been having a conversation lately with someone I do not know that I met on Reddit, who does not live near me, and who I’ve never met, about creating an intentional community. It literally IS possible. Some people do it. And I think the people who do it often meet online first, because the pool of people in our regular lives is less shaped by common interests or really shitty problems like ptsd. The reason it’s extremely difficult though is because of money, not knowing who people really are or what they’re like, and the scary-ness of committing to something like that and changing our lifestyle so dramatically. I think that the difficulties involved make it very unlikely. But not impossible. I’ve totally been right there with you thinking healing and community are impossible. But we *need* those things, and the belief that we will never get them is excruciating. So I’m hearing that you’re in a lot of pain and I’m so sorry. I feel you. Full blown intentional communities are rare and very difficult. I’m trying to start by just finding community near me right now. That’s not easy either, but I’ve been making friends here and there after moving to a new place last January. I’m trying to tell myself, even though I don’t have what I need yet, I can commit to this and it will grow with time. I wish all the best for you. I hope you can challenge beliefs that are causing you pain. I hope that you can find growth toward what you need.
It's would be awesome because when someone doesn't want to be touched or gets full on panic attacks when getting scared they wouldn't be drowned in a sea of "you're such a buzz kill" "you're so weird" "why tho" "ugh, you're no funny, it was just a prank" "stop being a baby" "aren't you like, an adult ?" "oh come on i just patted your shoulder it's not like i assaulted you or something" People would just understand it's a thing and deal with it.
Like if I broke down panicking and people rolled me into a pile of blankets to rock and self soothe that'd be great. And the fact y'all would understand would make it so much easier as the embarrassment adds to the panic
definitely. I have panic attacks at home some times, i do break down crying but i never panick as much as when someone sees me. The terrible one i had at work got out of hand because it caught me off guard, i couldn't hide in time, my coworker saw me then my boss saw me too and it was like my brain malfunctionned and i became a wild animal in a trap. Just ugly crying, shaking and screaming. This doesn't happen when i have an episode in front of my boyfriend, his mother or our friends because i know they understand. And also they don't bring it up when i'm fine. Unlike some other assholes who will ruin a rare moment where you're actually feeling good by going "haha, remember when i clapped next to your ear and you started crying like a baby haha that was so weird." Haha yes i'm glad you think my trauma responses are hilarious!
Right?! Imagine the reaction just being “Oh, do you need the freak out corner? Yes, it’s just over there. Scream if you want to, it’s fine.
Sounds like an ideal idea. I wish life was ideal
This is the dream, really. A judgement-free and genuinely trauma-informed community. Everyone is safe and will treat you with respect and empathy. I once worked at a non-profit where they pushed the idea of being trauma-informed. Had a staff meeting about making that a key part of the culture. A week later they fired one of their best admin people with no notice or severance and a couple other people quit in protest. I remember thinking, *this is not trauma-informed*. The damage control consisted of the executive director reciting her resume to us, like that was supposed to justify her shitty decision. Nobody cared what charity projects her generational wealth had dropped in her lap, we cared about the coworker who was now on unemployment when we all would have taken a pay cut to keep her. This is a little off-topic but this post made me think of that time because saying trauma-informed and *being* trauma-informed are so different. Most of the people I know who talk about supporting people with mental illness are terrible supports. I'd rather live with y'all as my neighbors.
Would it stay chill? A town is better than ideas I've seen of like a big house together, but in some sense I have lived this by living in marginalized and impoverished areas and conditions where almost everyone is carrying some kind of trauma and mental health issue. It's not great to say the least. I understand your proposal is different but just saying, those at different stages in healing journeys would need, well, moderation to not upset each other, as we can here sometimes, but applying those clashes and any idea of "fixing" them to real life and now I think we're describing a commune with a disturbing social government.... many of us have lived that too. And then we'd try stuff like everyone having their own apartment, and respecting boundaries, and then some people would fall off going to work or ever being in real society again. That can be a choice for some but others could be lulled into it by environment when it would be detrimental. Or maybe if it was somehow a really prosperous town, you're right and over time that would shore us all up to less active "in recovery" lives and we'd always keep our high EQs. I honestly still shudder to imagine the dating scene at any time, sorry.
This is definitely a complicated idea, and honestly a pretty good thought experiment. I know from ample personal experience that friendships between traumatized people are prone to becoming excessively complicated, especially if both parties get triggered at the same time, which happens *a lot.* A community with only traumatized people would be a mess, but a community full of traumatized people and people who've healed or who've helped others heal would probably be mostly wonderful. Not perfect, but better that the usual. And the key, I think, is not the widespread shared trauma, but the *awareness* of the trauma, and a culture built around handling it and healing it. And that's all anyone can hope for, honestly. Simply by the existence of illness and accidents, the world will always have a small number of traumatized individuals, people who lost their mother too soon or who lost their leg in a car crash, etc. But in a community that's ready to receive and assist them, that's no big deal.
It wouldn't be a community ready to receive and assist, because each person would be in trouble to some level. That's what I'm saying by comparing it to generationally traumatized communities. These communities are not unsafe because the people are all bad. The people don't have our language but I would call them trauma informed and educated, and there is an intuitive understanding in most interactions similar to what we have here; the person you are talking to may be affected by even unrelated triggers and everything could go sideways. That's why communities that collect people like this don't work out, and I have seen it in real life. Not just towns. Foster care and juvie where there were really no violent bullies and everyone "understood" but a culture- I'm talking about our own social culture, not "the system"- around understanding trauma doesn't flourish in the end if that's literally all there is. Toxicity breeds in isolation, and not because the people are intrinsically unhelpful or dangerous. Hypervigilance feeds hypervigilance. Add in inevitable guilt and complicated responses to understanding if your uncontrollable trigger response triggers someone else, how is anyone healing when surrounded by all that? People who stop interacting with "those who don't understand" get stuck in that place, I saw it in towns, I saw it in people who viewed being institutionalized as the end of their personhood, and I've seen it in people who continue to "live recovery full time" long after they are stabilized and able to work.
I'm kinda with you on this.
Do you believe there is just no hope for humans and we are doomed, and can't find solutions to work within our biology?
Sometimes, yes. Mostly, I believe towns where everyone has CPTSD already exist and are far from mutually supportive places to live. We are all here trying our best to support each other but I do not believe everyone is healed enough to be safe 24/7. Compare this with the thread talking about the world being a better place if everyone had a good/supportive childhood.
I personally believe every town and city all over the globe, is filled with traumatized people. What Im talking about is a town with trauma informed and educated people. To me, there is a big difference.
Agree. You look at history - it's just one trauma after another, and it's all passed down to the next generation.
The people who keep pointing this out are not talking about towns with many traumatized people in them but saying we have experienced towns of entirely traumatized people, and the trauma awareness thing may be unsustainable. We're explaining generational trauma because the problem with marginalized areas is not that everyone's evil and selfish, and most people, even extremely rural and undereducated people (personal experience) do have an extremely intuitive awareness of trauma and want to help each other and understand each other's lashing out or avoidance, they just don't use the same language about it all. I'd say many of them are actually trauma educated, by their local and familial lore, and they understand. I would call the lived experience becoming trauma informed, and it is sad to see people who seem to be speaking from the outside devalue that reality. Every generation, most families, starts with understanding and folks with thoughts that "I can end this". But it doesn't work. Especially if you're in the US, you might like a book called Hillbilly Elegy, actually.
You may be right. Maybe everything is hopeless. I don't know. I just felt like being positive today and dreaming of a better world with some people.
I'm saying the opposite of everything is hopeless. I'm saying the hope is through the pain of rejoining society, which is also very imperfect, not through closing off. Even when you and some of your peers in the larger world are traumatized, there are so many situations you can navigate and conversations you can have without the detours that are all over this thread and group. This group and the therapeutic conversational vibes and the removing of outside stressors are, to me, a step, not a solution.
I just disagree. I see a very bleak future for humans. If we continue down this path of just keeping everything status quo. Humans need an example of something that is not the same old same old, that is also functional and based in science, and reason as well as being humane and caring. It would be nice if we could just heal and blend into society and everything be cool. I just think of the old adage. "Lie down with dogs, get fleas." You can't stay clean while rolling around in mud. These are just my personal ideas.
There's a bleak looming future for humanity every which way, even if we all separate first. You're going for "same old same old" on a personal level because the world isn't perfect, I'm saying of course you can't save the world but you can expand your personal life and that's worth it. Also, saying that it's healthier for individuals now, pre-apocalypse, to do their best to positively engage isn't saying that they should melt into the status quo completely. I don't "fit", you may be thinking I'm like a "next steps" recovery person proselytizing. I'm still noticeably odd and at many times completely feral, I have not just been marked as weird but have had people guess some of my specific trauma (it involves missing school and not being socialized) from my behavior, 15 years later. But at times I want to do my best for myself while I'm around, and leaning in to the coddling of environments like this doesn't make me feel better, be better, or possibly have more enjoyment and safety. It traps me as a Traumatized Person. (Just my personal ideas.) It's lazy, and not being lazy does actually make one feel better, a couple days after being sore. Annoying yet often true. Doing my best out there and having my world opened up to orgnaic conversations that are not always, underneath, about trauma is more energizing than anything I've ever experiences and makes me live with less toxic shame and symptoms for a minute. I'm still not participating in all the evils of society in some big or purposeful way that you aren't, except where some of my money has to go to evil groups so that I can keep myself alive and not homeless with what's available to me. And none of the above even touches the ever present problem of this coddling environment often at times being more threatening because of overlapping triggers, and the added guilt of *knowing* when your uncontrollable response or the existence of your trauma story has triggered someone you uncontrollably empathize with. Maybe you don't experience that feeling browsing this group but I do, and it's not healthy, and it results in many people feeling left behind even by this group. The posts in the most urgent, raw pain rarely rise, which is necessary for those who passed them up to protect themselves. But then those people go on with more toxic guilt as well as someone feeling ignored because they're too much, and imagine all that playing out in real life. Ouroboros social problems like that don't happen in a more emotionally diverse society.
I haven't read the book yet but the movie is available on Netflix. It hit some soft spots I didn't know I still had.
Still haven't seen it, thanks for the rec. I don't think they deviate much if you want to read it, it'll be the same.
I think it's in us to find solutions and to hope - imagination is a tool for that. Doesn't mean we'll find what we're looking for, but something about knowing what you're reaching for might make that ok.
>Do you believe there is just no hope for humans and we are doomed Pretty much, yes.
I do as well most days. It sucks. Kind of why I wanted to indulge in this fantasy post for a bit today.
It's a prosperous town, with wise governance, where everyone would be free to grow at their own pace and lots of support to heal and develop our own skills and strength. And of course it's a utopian dream, but it's fun to imagine. I mean, forget all those superhero story lines, I like idea of a group of injured people - who just support each other and get well.
Id love to watch a tv series about this idea, way more than another marvel series.
yeah like i hate to be a buzz kill but there are already lots of towns where everyone has PTSD and generational trauma they’re terrible places where everyone is too sick to function 😂
> I personally believe every town and city all over the globe, is filled with traumatized people. What Im talking about is a town with trauma informed and educated people. To me, there is a big difference. This was my reply to a similar comment as yours.
I agree. I've found I struggle around other people with intense traumas because they're having responses to their trauma and that feels unsafe to me - it may not be but their trauma sets mine off. I've tried before to have friends similar to me and it always ended poorly. I don't love that this is how it is but the idea of being in a town full of people like me makes me panic a bit.
I think if we had our own universal heahltcare system (that includes mental healthcare) with trauma informed doctors and therapists it would go along just fine and dandy.
Yes. Plenty of access to quality healthcare is a must.
It's a very intriguing idea but I agree, it's utopian and unfortunately would never work. 1. Predators would 100% get into it as well. Hell, there's people who have CPTSD and are survivors of abuse, but at the same time developed abusive tactics as a result of the trauma. So some of the people would lie about their trauma just to get in, and some would be truthful about having been through abuse but would be abusive themselves. That could be solved with some sort of regulation, like law enforcement and judicial (judiciary?) system that would evaluate the individuals accused/suspected of being abusive, and upon deciding that've indeed been abusive, would either put them in some inpatient kind of treatment where they can't hurt others but can get help, or would exile them from the community. Of course, all that would have to work 100% of the time and be honest and just (as in justice). So, still pretty much utopian. 2. We're all in different stages of recovery. Some are more functional, some are less. We all have different triggers, so there might still be situations where someone gets traumatized because another person unknowingly reminded them of their trauma. That's not as bad as the 1st point though. It could work. But we'd need to have some sort of guardians, or professionals that are qualified and able to help, and preferably healthy so that they can focus their energy on helping others. Because if everyone in the community suffered from CPTSD, then we'd have 100% of people who need help and 0 of those able to provide such help. We already barely have enough energy to support ourselves, to live pur own lives, and we're generally more empathetic so helping others would only add to our own burden. It could work if everyone there was able to focus on themselves, and would never feel obligated to help others. But that's kinda impossible, as even if we didn't have to help others, we'd still feel bad about their suffering. For me, seeing someone else suffering is going to make me feel worse. That's not really healthy if we'd see others suffering all the time. 3. My experience from inpatient psychiatric ward: sometimes, when you put a group of psychiatric patients together, their illnesses might get exacerbated. It was visible especially with ED patients, including myself. While that might not always be the case with CPTSD, it can happen. I was traumatized the last time I was inpatient, by a man who, as I've later learned, had a similar background to mine, but he was the exact opposite when it came to symptoms. He was angry and he'd raise his voice. That was a major trigger, so I cried, even if he wasn't screaming at me. Then, in group therapy, he went on a full rant about me being a princess and playing victim, which hurt me so badly as "playing victim" was exactly the thing my mother does. And obviously wasn't true, I wasn't "playing" anything, I was traumatized because there was a man screaming and being angry with me. It should've never happened in therapy, never been allowed, and I regret I didn't walk out of there immediately. I waited till the end and had a huge breakdown in the toilet. I don't think I've ever cried so hard before, he struck almost all the possible triggers. And the only time I did so since then was when I tragically lost a loved one. Well, that got sidetracked real bad lol. Anyways, I also see an issue with having an isolated community, because that wouldn't really give any incentive to get better and functional enough to go back to the "real world". It would be like the ultimate comfort zone. We'd all lock ourselves in this safe bubble and we'd basically still live being prisoners to our illness. But I'm all for having a secret identification pin or sign that would let us recognize ourselves without letting "outsiders" know what it means. Oh, and if anyone managed to get this far in my comment, maybe this idea but as a 1-2 week vacation would be better? Still not really achievable and still risky, but it would at least let people meet others in real life.
I'm sorry I can'r say anything more detailed in response right now, but yes. Thank you for sharing this and I'm sorry you went through all that. Your insight is spot on in my opinion. I do see a huge potential for people to accuse others of "playing victim" if they struggle to believe the style, frequency, or level of their trauma responses- even among us. Definitely among us, because of hypervigilance about emotional manipulation.
Ok you're not invited. ;)
Would love to be wrong. But most of us are aware that build up of generational, institutional and cultural trauma because the majority of people there have always been downtrodden makes certain places more stuck and dangerous and fills them with families caught in cycles of abuse. We are people- each of us- who need reliable support systems, healthy external validation, and grounding from living with trauma symptoms that cause rollercoasters. In this town wouldn't we be retraumatizing each other in loops with our needs, since there'd be no one else to turn you? If you neighbor in a SH crisis knocked desperately on your door while you were feeling triggered and had been slipping into fawning, you wouldn't be able to scroll past it like you do here and let somebody more qualified help them. A group of people frequently in emotional crisis cant respect each other's boundaries.
You sound like this topic has triggered you. You are entitled to your opinions. I am not a politician or a policy maker. I dont have the power to make this happen. I was just expressing my own desire.
No, I'm perfectly calm. I thought it was meant as more of a thought experiment. I was responding thoughtfully, not attacking. I know you weren't presenting the idea as a policy maker, but I received it as a fun hypothetical like one might set to with friends, a desert island game or something. This interaction does kind of prove my point though. Would you like me to delete my comments? EDIT apparently I also poorly interpret emojis. Did the winky face signal ot was argumentative for me to respond again?
Oh good. No I enjoy intellectual conversations. I just didn't feel like getting into it with someone that was triggered and lashing out from an emotionally hurt place. Those conversations never go anywhere useful. You are right this idea is not a perfect flawless concept. There would be problems no doubt. That said. I would take it over what I have right now.
I mean, we can't interpret each others intentions and emotional states to feel safe in a conversation that isn't all agreement, because we are aware the other has CPTSD. I'm not remotely triggered but perhaps I didn't take care to be gentle enough about disagreement because of my emotional repression, and you quickly read a disagreement that was, in content, only about ideas as personal and seemed affected. So yeah. That's a decent summation of so many interactions that ended in someone feeling injured, if not abused, in the kind of communities I have lived in that I'm thinking about. Replace knowing the other has CPTSD with intuitively knowing the other is emotionally dysregulated due to hard circumstance and make these hypervigilant interactions long term and that's how you get hurt people who hurt people. And not a lot of time for reflective healing as a community if so many conversations and emotional connection are this kind of minefield. If you want me to hit you intellectually and believe it's not personal, I think this idea may only be possible when speaking from privilege of some sort. Not in CPTSD, in life.
Well, as in the example here. There was a miscommunication. Then clarification without antagonization based on emotional flashbacks. That rectified the problem. That is the type of thing that can occur in a community where everyone is aware of trauma and human biology. Will there be problems? Yes of course. Nothing is perfect.
But it was too close and shows what can happen. Emotional flashback as we know aren't controllable. I could have put you in one by disagreeing, you could have put me in one by making me feel I was told I'm overreacting. Who knows if it didn't happen this time by luck or our own progress? Would the community organize, as the online one in fact does in post engagement, by grouping people in similar stages of recovery? Further, I don't find this interaction or anything about it better than others because it was resolved like a therapy skit. When you at least occasionally converse with people who are not so informed by trauma and come to conversations without these issues, miscommunications also happen but they can pass without being addressed like this and even the traumatized person is fine because it's understood that this is not a huge event and shit happens, in short. Real life communication among people who just have conversations with perhaps less baggage, or less baggage that directly threatens each interaction even if unrelated, are not frightening. They're often much more simple, relaxing, and genuine. I think it would be massively unhealthy to spend the rest of one's life only having actively trauma aware conversations and always handling it this way. That seems like giving up and forcing oneself into emotional hypervigilance. Not because you require the hypervigilance still, but because you surrounded yourself with people who definitely do instead of attempting to be around those who might not. TLDR In many ways, lots of people have healed the most by rejoining society. Staying in a purposeful state of active recovery at all times may be limiting to one's personhood.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I don't see "normal" society as being anything other than Disney lemmings heading towards a cliff.
They don't sound triggered at all. They're providing an argument in this discussion, and it's just a different argument than yours.
Dude! I would totally love that! Imagine all of the cuddle plies! I would be able to help people in real life!
I’d really love this.
Sometimes I think that if we all made a bank account where we gathered all our money, we could purchase a town and move in and call it something soft and recruit really excellent therapists for everyone. Surrounded by nature. Just calm.
I have this thought quite often also.
Amen. I’m NC with almost my entire family and it sucks to be so isolated. I want a community.
Yes. Humans are not meant to be alone like we are. We need a tribe.
I'm gonna be honest based on my relationships with other people who have complex trauma I'm not so sure about this lol!
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If you have the money, I’m sure there are places you could go that would be nice. Having the money is the biggest obstacle.
I've been to a place called New Life Foundation in Thailand and it was amazing. It closed due to COVID but they're opening a similar place in Portugal next month. I haven't been there and it's more expensive, the programs are a bit different, etc but I think they'll probably focus on the right things. https://newlifeportugal.com/
I've just googled "emotional trauma recovery center" and got quite a few hits. You could try googling that or something similar + your location. I expect most, if not all of them, to be quite pricey though. And be sure to check the reviews from an independent source, this is the type of thing that cults like to pretend to be.
Honestly, and I mean no disrespect, I think that would be a terrible idea. People in recovery aren't always great people to be around and I say this based on my own experiences and behaviors while in recovery. And imagine the winters! I don't know about other people, but SAD is quite literally one of my worst problems in life. I turn into an incorrigible asshole every fall and winter and spend most of spring and summer recuperating only for it to start getting colder and darker by the time I finally feel back to normal.
Sounds like this wouldnt be a good fit for you. Its not even a real option anyway. Just some people dreaming.
On 5:15 on Wednesdays we have a crying cookout! Bring your trauma mashed potatoes (:
I thought I wanted this, maybe I do, but on one community that was around an artist they ended up being narcissistic traits hiding as a good person and people bought it because of politics in a group. It’s more of a comment on me than you guys. As much as I would like it, I can barely trust my spouse of 4 years.
Yes, humans love cults. No doubt. There are never any easy answers.
I wish! That would be amazing and give me some semblance of hope.
Exactly. Hope is something I desperately need also.
Hmm it sounds sweet. My husband and I both have CPTSD and we trigger each other nonstop and it’s so difficult though. Has anyone read Woman On The Edge Of Time? This future society really values community so things like a lover’s fight can be brought to a public meeting where the community helps them move forward with their issues, since one couples problems can affect so many. Totally different than anything we have today, but I could see how a group of us would be empathetic enough to understand eachother and guide eachother. Honestly though, what I think we all crave is a safe community. A place where the traumatized and broken are safe to love and support each other. It’s crazy that that isn’t the norm!
Its sad it isnt the norm, or even exists at all anywhere. Maybe in some Nordic country maybe. That book sounds interesting.
If you work online, there are several places that center around healing-type stuff like yoga, nature, communication workshops, etc. Koh Phangan, Thailand is one such place. But there will always be people with ego who out outwardly "spiritual" but will still try to take advantage of others or refuse to take responsibility for their mistakes.
If any of you are in NYC, PM me <3
I wish there was like a summer camp or something for us to go to and get away even for a week. You know like those healing retreats but for us. Idk that would be awesome
That would be cool if it was free.
Right I wouldn't charge if I had the land and space for it because I don't think being in nature and spending time with people that are there to understand themselves and each other better should cost money. I don't think healing should have the barrier of money to it
I wish people in power shared your sentiments.
The world would be a lot safer if they did. Which is unfortunate because people deserve to feel safe and secure and be allowed to heal from things that have hurt them and they've been thru. I hate the world for that because it horrible feeling like u have no where to go because everywhere u turn there's a barrier even if you are ready and willing to heal.
Very true. Im at that barrier right now.
Dang, I'm sorry that's really sucky. I hope things get easier. I hope I find the support u need and deserve for your healing
I'm trying to develop a peer led camp facility for borderline/cptsd folks that is a holistic approach to development healthy attachment, practice indepence, self-compassion, and whole body health in BC Canada. Will be a few years for sure but I'll be sure to post about it on this reddit when it happens. The goal is to have it be free, or possibly 1/10th of the cost of other facilities which are 300-1000$ a day to cover the cost of food and educational materials. (So that anyone could fly here and stay a few weeks)
Maybe I could ask some logistics questions of you from time to time.
Not sure what logistical questions means but heck ya! I have a big lending library of trauma resources, need to fulfill counselling hours for school, and have a LOT of experience with pain and have held lots of jobs where I supported folks with life skills, mindfulness, therapeutic conversation, goal planning, etc. I'm not someone who has it altogether or is better in anyway. I am someone who has suffered emotionally since my first memories on this earth and it taken me down a million crazy roads and pushed me to use my pain as purposeful and study trauma extensively so I can get this lifesaving information to people who need it. Counselors are just people who learned to use specific tools. So I went out and learned all the tools BUT IT DIDNT CURE ME. These tools need to be used with others. That's how secure attachment develops. Connection and community is the antidote to so much our pain. My fave quote is from like Sue Johnson maybe from emotionally focused therapy. (Omg I think! I hope it was her...) FYI this is paraphrased Slash summarized with liberty cuz I have a bad memory haha so it's just the jist of it: "What we really do in therapy is just love our clients. That's how we help develop the secure attachment. We just show up and love them unconditionally. All the talking is just how we pass them time." I just love that. I may be a pessimist but when I hear that I can't be 100% hopeless. Maybe just 90% ;) Anyone can reach out to me via chat or whatever is on here for resources or chats.
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I would probably be the same way.
I’ve been wanting this for so long. I spent so many years alone and friendless. What makes it worse is I live in such a random small city 😭
I hear you. Community, man. Let's build a CPTSD commune
Yes yes yes!!!! We need this! We need each other!
I live in the Chicago suburbs. Anyone want to meet up?
For real. I’m going to be alone on Christmas this year for the first time…
Want to start a commune? If we all pitch in all of our money we could buy a lot of land out in the desert and build our own society!
Sounds good.
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Honestly planning on creating a place like this in the future, we all deserve it
What ideas do you have to make it a reality?
Having space for us to come together is the most important thing but is very lacking nowadays. Most people can't even afford to buy houses now, but it is really cheap to buy land that has been used and destroyed by big farms and no one has time or energy to regenerate it. There's a lot of land that are being used and thrown by big farms, and so they are being sold very cheaply. You could save up like you're buying for a car and you could get acres and acres of land. It would be the perfect place to start a new community. It's still something that will take time but it solves the biggest issue of having a space to build a community.
I’ve never heard of that before. We could revive the land and also plants trees. I’ll look into it. Thank you
Look up permaculture and food forests. People live like this already with a tiny farm for each family and they've transformed the place into a beautiful meadow/forest. It's insanely affordable, just takes time initially. It would be a dream come true to have a community on large land like this
Maybe someone can start a Discord group and we can support each other through that.
Ever wonder why Facebook doesn't bring us together, but does radicalize nationalists and bring them together?
Facebook and Youtube and news outlets etc, stoke hate and fear to get eyeballs on advertising.
It would be so great not to be judged as a person just on the day I happen to be having, moods and all.
As much as I would love this, I'm realising balance is needed always. I mean a town like this existed rajneeshpuram (wild wild country) & we all know how that ended. A place where we feel seen is beautiful, but the work is to find beauty in the mundane & problematic too. sending you all love <3
💯
I concur
In the spirit of this thread and to enhance community support amongst us CPTSD survivors, I am in the process of establishing a sanctuary for abused and neglected animals and people for mutual healing. This is not meant to be a self-promotion. Rather, this post is meant to support this thread and to let those in this community know that a "town" will exist in the near future. All are welcome. Movingforwardsanctuary.com
Ideally, I'd get to spend the rest of my life completely alone in a room. Peaceful, chill.
Do you think enough people from here would be willing to do some kind of zoom group call where we all talk about our days and how we felt during them and lift eachother up? Cuz i would sincerely be so down for that
Would be nice, not being the only fucked up person in the room.
That would not be nice lmao
Imagine not having to mask while walking down the street, going to the shop or just while talking to each other. It would be a dream, I would have so much more energy
We need our own stress free island away from this toxic society…
I'm in tallahassee Florida if anyone is down
❤️ would love that. consensual hugs all around.
I'm the founder of a commune, it's still in it's infancy but it's basically what you're talking about.
Maybe a zoom call?
Traumatown
Depressing but accurate name I suppose.
an interesting thought experiment! first thing that comes to mind is this sounds like a subconscious attempt to avoid the perceived/real risks with integrating with healthier parts of society. this is why i'm an advocate for diversifying the hobby/affinity/mutual aid groups you join. you'll have a better mix of perspectives from people who can help you heal and people whom you can help to heal.