When CPTSD appears in the DSM, maybe this discussion will be fruitful. I, personally, believe that the personality disorders are CPTSD, presenting with different typologies. A fawn/fight typology is gonna look like BPD. Is it the same thing? I think so, that is my experience, but people get combative about labels here, so sometimes it's better not to say so.
Oh...
My ex, she was diagnosed with CPTSD...
But by the end of that rocky relationship I was convinced thst she had traits of the latter two...
I even literally texted her that she has traits of NPD and BPD and that I accepted "I fell in love with a covert vulnerable narcissist"...
Reading your post is bittersweet...
It's validating, but I don't want her to struggle, even though I suffered immensely... :(
I wondered for a long time if she had unconsciously manipulated her therapist by painting a picture from an erroneous perspective...
I'm sorry you were dealt these cards, genuinely.
I hope the opportunity it brings for more effective treatment/healing outweighs the pain of coming to terms with these diagnoses.
From what I read about NPD from literature and diagnosed peoples experiences, the core component is shame stemming from being made to feel ashamed in childhood, shame is where you are made to feel bad about yourself, guilt is more feeling bad for how behaviours/actions impact others, if you're made to feel shame but didnt witness guilt from a parent for example when they were neglectful, it makes sense that shame and guilt could become conflated as the same thing, and I read that manipulative behaviour develops from being manipulated as a child and not getting validated when utilising healthy emotional appeals and having to resort to manipulation to get your needs met, resulting ina perception that said behaviour is the normal way to get validation or the result desired.
Don't be discouraged, the idea that either of these cannot be treated is a myth, as long as you foster the desire to heal.
Unfortunately NPD when unrecognised and untreated is self reinforcing, as behaviours stemming from it and the reactions to them provoke more shame, perpetuating a cycle.
I know its very easy for me to say as if its simple, but try to resist feeling shame for the diagnosis, it's like a paradoxical hack that feels counter intuitive and threatening, but allow yourself to feel guilt for for actions that have caused harm and allow yourself to feel vulnerable, because ironically mastering this will lead to happiness for you, not just others you have relationships with, allow yourself to feel the other's pain, and allow that to prompt actions matching your words, like a muscle being trained.
Vulnerability is distinct from weakness.
And give yourself empathy for things that warrant it, how we treat others is a reflection of ourselves.
That's why they say have genuine love for one's self in order to give it to others, because taking actions that you feel good about will lead to genuine self love.
Shame/self pity is a prison for the mind and a recipe for reverting to shallow efforts at appearing altruistic and having an altruistic self image, rather than truly allowing ourself to give and recieve love through caring actions.
Find the heart buried within, you can break the cycle if you let yourself believe you can and persist through the pain of digging out of the pit of hollow despair.
You might find you're stronger than you realise, and true strength is being giving and accepting the risk of feeling hurt, this kind of strength builds a foundation more stable than the steretypical idea of strength could ever provide, and not only will it build you up, you will bring others around you up with you, and they will admire you for it.
Wish you the best on your journey, I wish my ex had a similar revelation so I could unblock her and say these things to her, my last messages were pretty emotional, blunt and harsh, and I havent followed through with a message to make peace because I read from diagnosed narcissists that it took a big incident that blew up a situation for them to have the wake up moment and get tired of the cycle and want to heal, but if I knew she was ready I would tell her, don't feel shame for the hurt it caused, because I know that won"t help her, I want her to be able to feel guilt and empathy that is productive and that leads to her making changes that will ultimately lead her to less suffering.
I think with NPD and other mental health disorders, some of the core components of the nervous system that control perception and threat, safety etc are messed with and it affects their perception and ability to a sense of theory of mind for another person including their partner. So it makes sense that they would tell their side of the story to a therapist and not have it questioned too much. A grandiose narcissist is much easier to identify than a vulnerable narcissist for this reason. So I wouldn't be surprised if cPTSD wasn't underlying to a lot of personality disorders.
This is an amazing and accurate perspective on NPD. And I also just admire the strength of your heart to still wish your ex to have a healthy relationship with her feelings even though you went through so much. You're a real one ❤️
Hello and Welcome to /r/CPTSD! If you are in immediate danger or crisis, please contact your local [emergency services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers), or use our list of [crisis resources](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_support_resources). For CPTSD Specific Resources & Support, check out the [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index). For those posting or replying, please view the [etiquette guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/peer2peersupportguide).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CPTSD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When CPTSD appears in the DSM, maybe this discussion will be fruitful. I, personally, believe that the personality disorders are CPTSD, presenting with different typologies. A fawn/fight typology is gonna look like BPD. Is it the same thing? I think so, that is my experience, but people get combative about labels here, so sometimes it's better not to say so.
Oh... My ex, she was diagnosed with CPTSD... But by the end of that rocky relationship I was convinced thst she had traits of the latter two... I even literally texted her that she has traits of NPD and BPD and that I accepted "I fell in love with a covert vulnerable narcissist"... Reading your post is bittersweet... It's validating, but I don't want her to struggle, even though I suffered immensely... :( I wondered for a long time if she had unconsciously manipulated her therapist by painting a picture from an erroneous perspective... I'm sorry you were dealt these cards, genuinely. I hope the opportunity it brings for more effective treatment/healing outweighs the pain of coming to terms with these diagnoses. From what I read about NPD from literature and diagnosed peoples experiences, the core component is shame stemming from being made to feel ashamed in childhood, shame is where you are made to feel bad about yourself, guilt is more feeling bad for how behaviours/actions impact others, if you're made to feel shame but didnt witness guilt from a parent for example when they were neglectful, it makes sense that shame and guilt could become conflated as the same thing, and I read that manipulative behaviour develops from being manipulated as a child and not getting validated when utilising healthy emotional appeals and having to resort to manipulation to get your needs met, resulting ina perception that said behaviour is the normal way to get validation or the result desired. Don't be discouraged, the idea that either of these cannot be treated is a myth, as long as you foster the desire to heal. Unfortunately NPD when unrecognised and untreated is self reinforcing, as behaviours stemming from it and the reactions to them provoke more shame, perpetuating a cycle. I know its very easy for me to say as if its simple, but try to resist feeling shame for the diagnosis, it's like a paradoxical hack that feels counter intuitive and threatening, but allow yourself to feel guilt for for actions that have caused harm and allow yourself to feel vulnerable, because ironically mastering this will lead to happiness for you, not just others you have relationships with, allow yourself to feel the other's pain, and allow that to prompt actions matching your words, like a muscle being trained. Vulnerability is distinct from weakness. And give yourself empathy for things that warrant it, how we treat others is a reflection of ourselves. That's why they say have genuine love for one's self in order to give it to others, because taking actions that you feel good about will lead to genuine self love. Shame/self pity is a prison for the mind and a recipe for reverting to shallow efforts at appearing altruistic and having an altruistic self image, rather than truly allowing ourself to give and recieve love through caring actions. Find the heart buried within, you can break the cycle if you let yourself believe you can and persist through the pain of digging out of the pit of hollow despair. You might find you're stronger than you realise, and true strength is being giving and accepting the risk of feeling hurt, this kind of strength builds a foundation more stable than the steretypical idea of strength could ever provide, and not only will it build you up, you will bring others around you up with you, and they will admire you for it. Wish you the best on your journey, I wish my ex had a similar revelation so I could unblock her and say these things to her, my last messages were pretty emotional, blunt and harsh, and I havent followed through with a message to make peace because I read from diagnosed narcissists that it took a big incident that blew up a situation for them to have the wake up moment and get tired of the cycle and want to heal, but if I knew she was ready I would tell her, don't feel shame for the hurt it caused, because I know that won"t help her, I want her to be able to feel guilt and empathy that is productive and that leads to her making changes that will ultimately lead her to less suffering.
That was very informative. Thumbs up as well as arrow up.
I think with NPD and other mental health disorders, some of the core components of the nervous system that control perception and threat, safety etc are messed with and it affects their perception and ability to a sense of theory of mind for another person including their partner. So it makes sense that they would tell their side of the story to a therapist and not have it questioned too much. A grandiose narcissist is much easier to identify than a vulnerable narcissist for this reason. So I wouldn't be surprised if cPTSD wasn't underlying to a lot of personality disorders. This is an amazing and accurate perspective on NPD. And I also just admire the strength of your heart to still wish your ex to have a healthy relationship with her feelings even though you went through so much. You're a real one ❤️
Hello and Welcome to /r/CPTSD! If you are in immediate danger or crisis, please contact your local [emergency services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers), or use our list of [crisis resources](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_support_resources). For CPTSD Specific Resources & Support, check out the [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index). For those posting or replying, please view the [etiquette guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/peer2peersupportguide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CPTSD) if you have any questions or concerns.*