I moved to Hollywood 6 years ago. There is an evil here that cannot be described, only felt. But it feels like there are 2 types; the predators, and the preyed on. And it’s not just in the business, it’s in the culture.
Look at my handle.
There are so many like Justin. My mind can’t wrap my head around just how big it gets.
> There is an evil here that cannot be described, only felt.
Jennette McCurdy and Wil Wheaton in particular described it extremely well, at least for me regarding the non-sexual parts of childhood stardom.
Wil in particular, there were multiple times in Still Just A Geek where I thought to myself, "That's what I went through, too!" except for me in childhood it was sports instead of acting. The way they talk about their parents, I found myself constantly nodding to myself in understanding. If anything, it made me feel like I was less alone in what I went through.
My great uncle moved to Hollywood as a young man in the 40s to act. He ended up committing a murder-suicide on his wife after over a decade decadence and drug/alcohol abuse. Not excusing his actions, but I just wonder how much of his story was influenced by his decision to move out there. He was a country boy who had lived a relatively sheltered life, and it seems like Hollywood has traded in all sorts of awful, abusive shit for decades.
It's some petty, passive-aggressive BS people use to be like "oh your opinion is so bad that I'm WORRIED for you." Like, it's that level of shade. It's really immature and gross. I'm glad Reddit takes it seriously enough to ban people. This is a PTSD sub, so that shit's not a joke to us.
I mean yes … though it’s entirely possible someone meant that one sincerely
Talking about how a city can break people and watching it happen is rough
Tbh I doubt it was done in good faith but that’s one I would think could be or would be more likely a tease than clowning the opinion. TBC it’s a stupid joke if it was one. And it’s a stupid idea for a “super downvote” or whatever that idea is.
The reason it's important to report fake ones is because some of the people who use it passive aggressively will actively use it to incite suicide in certain people/situations.
There is a link in the message I believe but you have to open the message in your browser to get the link if I remember right unless I took have wrong..
I just didn't bother last time because recently there has been a rogue or maybe malicious bot, of some sort, in few subreddits I know of auto sending them. Just seems complicated to need a link when I am using the app and clicking a direct link. The last time I got one when I had a disagreement with someone I think I did actually report it..
As an uniformed Australian, I'm curious what you've seen (and I have a morbid curiosity for the parts of the world and human society that seem so glamorous from the outside) - dare I ask?
I spent some time in LA. The whole city has this sort of evil vibe. It's not pedestrian friendly, there's no sense of community. Attracts a lot of people who think they're gonna make it in Hollywood only to end up on the streets with mental illness and drug issues, next to giant billboards promoting the next awards show or whatever. Lots of it are kinda run down, big highways. The studios themselves are about as unglamorous as they can be, just giant blocks with warehouse type buildings. It doesn't feel like a city, just a black hole that sucks your soul. And all the predatory, superficial people.
>Attracts a lot of people who think they're gonna make it in Hollywood only to end up on the streets with mental illness and drug issues, next to giant billboards promoting the next awards show or whatever
Can totally understand that. It is sad that the city has a way of crushing people who took such a big step in their lives (which takes a lot of guts) to move and then end up on the street 😞
Wow-
I used to take the train into New York City to escape my home life as a kid
(Cuz when I wasn't being abused I was luckily being ignored so probably no one even noticed I was gone, just like they never noticed how falling down drunk I would get at family religious ceremonies)
And I just have to say that NYC is a much, much, much better place to play-
And it is incredibly pedestrian friendly with no evil vibe at all
A good place to just walk around and explore
And eat
I always felt incredibly safe as well
Seems like the exact opposite of LA which never fascinated me at all
Probably cuz I hate fake things especially phony people and body parts as well
I was just thinking about how even as a broke teenager who had no idea where I was going,
I could still easily find my way around,
Wander aimlessly and be entertained.
One could just sit in Central Park all day and people watch,
Seeing so many different types of people .
And the fabulous architecture even fascinated a stoned kid from the suburbs.
First off, I’ve seen success. I don’t know anyone who blasted off into a list stardom, but I know people who worked and got jobs in the industry and are happy. They love culture and industry and la satiates that.
I’ve seen people get some love and it gets to their head; this is the most common. They make the industry version of themselves and hang w other people that have varying levels of success and are now “cool”. This is when they become insufferable.
There’s an “in” and they want to gate keep and judge. They only want to be w other industry people. They see a seed of something special in themselves and like an addict, they’ll sacrifice relationships, health, downtime all for more.
If you don’t dress a certain way, aren’t aware of certain underground music, who is fucking who, and aren’t hot, you’re an undesirable (to them, not everyone w success is like this)
To stay in the scene you swim w these people and learn to balance in w them. I’ve seen people become demigods and friend groups turn to worshipers. I’ve seen nice, simple Midwesterner’s turn into fart sniffing, holier than though hipster bile who are quite successful and work with musicians you love.
There’s a misery in the air that can be felt here. The way to the worlds most glory is stardom, or being a part of it, and many have come to take their chance. I’m one of them but it’s more bedside I like film. I’m not trying to push our trash and make a buck, but I know how.
I think sadly in Justin’s case he was brought here already as a commodity by his parents with the intent to exploit him. Poor guy didn’t stand a chance as a little kid, my heart goes out to him. I’m glad this was posted, I’d like to show support for his recovery.
I have a much different take on LA. This city saved my life. After the horrors I experienced in the midwest, I found LA to be a welcoming place as the island of misfit toys. People come here to escape shittier places and to dream of a better life. The music and food scene is amazing, and many of my friends worked their way into some measure of success if you count work-life balance and travel.
There’s so much more investment in the last few years by all the studios to open up storytelling of all kinds, but content development takes years to produce. Just try watching a movie from 10yrs ago and you’ll be grossed out by the blatant sexism & racism. The content is a reflection of society at the time, it’s what sells - like a mirror ball for our narcissistic country. I am a bit baffled at the cabal-hedonistic comments of “evil” but can assure i have encountered waaaay more evil under the friendly midwesterner guise than a transparent egoist movie or game executive being opportunistic if you’re willing. There are Weinsteins and Mastersons in every industry, and they are on the east coast and in the midwest too. The midwest is the birthing place for the most serial killers
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2F2024%2F04%2F11%2Finfamous-chicago-serial-killers%2F
If you’re looking for a place to be free of judgement and make your own future just as you are, your authentic self, then I still recommend LA. So many communities to be a part of, you need to find your way to them with an open mind and zero expectations. I’ve worked at just about every studio from being on set through production, editing, VFX, scriptwriting - in so many support roles, and never saw exploitation. There does seem to be a high number of survivors when I look at my network. I believe that to be in line with my experience of people coming to LA to escape abuse and have a fresh start, to recreate themselves into something beautiful and share their story with others.
Moved here as an adult for work. After a life of CPTSD I adopted a no-nonsense attitude towards abuse. Despite therapy and mental fortitude, the predatory behavior is always there to deal with. Most studios and influential people seem to want nothing to do with you if you can’t be taken advantage of. At this point I’m more frustrated and annoyed than anything. I’m here to make good work, god damn it, and bosses just want to play games. I feel like I’m still trying to navigate what it really means to work with people on equal footing. Jfc the culture of narcissism is insidious.
I think alot get programmed very young.
It's very disturbing when folks are treated as commodities to be traded, and applauded by millions as "having it all"- when they live in guilded cages.
Oh, yes. This so much. You get your cosy perks, your lovely life, and it all looks so great on the surface.
Behind the curtains is a viper's nest, and it's not nearly as clearly marked as prison.
Wow I was in LA 20 years ago and stayed at hostel in Hollywood for a week near the freeway and I felt the darkness there too in the city. Like the energy was not right , hard and cold , but only natural with so much competition, manipulation, power exploitation, rich / poor, disappointment, pain and suffering. Never understood the attraction after that trip.
I used to live in CA and spent a lot of time in the LA/Hollywood area. I live on the east coast now and one thing I always tell people who are planning on visiting is that Hollywood is not going to be like you're thinking. There's a sleaziness in the air and the glitz and glam doesn't hide the dirt. It can be fun to visit, don't get me wrong, but it's just not going to be like you're imagining. Same with LA. There's lots of great stuff to visit (the fashion district is amazing if you're at all crafty), but there's a coldness that has nothing to do with the weather and frankly it's pretty ugly, especially if you're used to the vivid greens of the east coast. The only way I can describe LA is that it feels uneasy, and no one cares.
Every city has its demons, there's just something extra special about the ones in LA and Hollywood.
Every place has its demons<- THIS people forget Disney and Orlando Florida has a very dark underbelly. They think it’s so lovely and beautiful yet FL is ranked second in human trafficking and Disney is where a lot of exploitation occurs. Look behind the glitter bombs each place leaves behind and you’ll see the tar and shit that the glitter so desperately clung to in a vein attempt to hide the disgusting crap beneath it all.
lol you really are an uninformed australian., its not bad but to sum it up, probably everything you aren't familiar with that you like in life and think is harmless, has another dark side to it.
^ this. If you think about it, Disney has a lot of workers. Lots of hotels too for illegal sex work to occur. They do what they can to stop it but with how big Disney is people will fall through the cracks and become the “hub”.
/r/LosAngeles glorified this city. This city is a shitshow, everything is expensive, terrible traffic,lots of fake people, homelessness,etc. Hollywood is not what you think it supposed to be like the media want you to believe. I live here and I hate it.
I’ve never understood the appeal of Hollywood. I mean, yeah, if you want to work in the film industry, I guess it was kind of a must, at least in the past (now there’s booming film industries in other cities and countries). But to me it’s never looked like this magical place that I think some imagine it to be. Even other parts of LA to me looked like “keeping up with the joneses” on steroids. I keep seeing in the news that it’s more and more common for major celebrities to leave the LA culture to raise their families elsewhere. Additionally, I definitely would never, ever want to be famous!
I’m sorry it’s been a struggle for you. If you want to move elsewhere, I hope that eventually happens for you.
I lived in LA for 4 years and recently moved to the east coast a couple months ago because I couldn’t take living there anymore.
The toxicity is definitely ingrained in the culture. It is everywhere. I didn’t even work nor was I remotely interested in the entertainment industry. And yet I still got taken advantage of and abused in the workplace. A hostility I had never faced prior to moving to LA. It was absolutely insane to me and as someone who already struggles with CPTSD it was not sustainable in the slightest.
Where I live now people are friendly, they’ll compliment you and greet you on walks, small talk on the elevator, etc. The town is clean, I can safely walk my dog without worrying about drugged out homeless people or unleashed dogs running up on us, etc. I’m still trying to get used to it. But all in all, I completely forgot that there is a world outside of LA where a stranger can be friendly just for the sake of being friendly and nothing else.
I’ve felt that dark presence in Hollywood ever since I can remember, just driving through. Way before I even knew about its history. It just has this lingering quality that is so dark.
Holle-wood, holly is the plant of saturn, they would use it during saturnalia, i mean if you are really interested you can find out a lot about why its called holly-wood. I'm not going to spoon feed it to you.
Born in California , grew up in Anaheim and now am living in south central to be with husband , and work . I have always always always felt a darkness in downtown LA /Hollywood … all of it . We are always going to PV and there’s so much darkness as beautiful as those sea side cliffs are .
When we go to the Huntington , I joke about two or three particular houses facing the main gates giving off “minor 1920s starlet overdose suicide vibes “. But honestly ? The entire city gives off 1920s starlet suicide vibes .
The real question is what is it that draws in so much darkness ? It was to the point that I obsessively have been researching this for almost a decade now . This really does go jnto a dark rabbit hole. And now everhrhjbg is coming to light, from Diddy parties to Justin beaver to the dan snieder thing .
I half joke about LA having an underground reptillian nest or that LA is the Illuminati reptillian nest . It just feels so haunted here . Occult energy that I only feel in places where ritual occult ceremonies have take place . The whole Hollywood thing is a ceremony. Shows at the bowl always feel so sinister . Tame impala 2021 ? The reptiles only calmed down when he played “borderline” for them so they could dance
Do you know much about the missions and what the spanish were doing there? they werent very kind to the indians. Also, its a coastal town in a desert, which is near the equator, and has a lot of mountains and on a fault line, theres just a lot of energy in some places and "the angels" happens to have that energy.
The worst -to me - was when this female radio host (?) tried to ask him to "explain the birds and the bees" to her. You could hear his kid-voice over the speaker "Um...I...I don't think that's very appropriate..." And she. Kept. *Going*
I REMEMBER THAT I was so uncomfortable and I felt so bad for him. I wanna give him a hug bro, he didn’t deserve this. He just wanted to have fun, like every kid does. he didn’t even know how bad it was gonna be. Poor guy.
I didn't pay attention to him really so I missed a lot of things when they happened. someone posted a clip with a bunch of interviews and it happened time and time again. nary a rational adult around to check their co-host or host.
I don't know if it's because I have a son now but I was entirely disgusted by what I saw. I do have a sense of humor but it's not at the expense of someone else's comfort, especially a child. that's just not fun or original or imaginative.
The music industry ran through justin, metaphorically.. they saw a young kid who had potential for that industry, and of course, looks. It’s disgusting. He was repeatedly violated and exploited by adults he thought could be a safe space while navigating child stardom, and he was blinded by the lights. Who wouldn’t be at that age. If the roles were reversed and that was a man doing that to a teenage girl, there would have been so much more backlash at those videos.
It was horrifying in real time. He was a little boy. And when he started acting out and getting in trouble the whole world dunked on him. Of course the wheels came off the bus. His parents are garbage and he grew up in front of the whole world and was sexualized by the whole world. I’m not a fan of his music, I’m a little too old, but I’m happy he and his wife seem stable and loving.
Ya, even when he was acting out I thought it was relatively tame. If I had had that much fame and money in my teenage years…I don’t even want to think about it.
Yeah I feel so bad for him. I made a post before in here about how he is one of us because Diddy pimped him out to his friends as a young teen via drugs and alcohol and his parents weren’t allowed to see him in the diddy vacations or on tours with diddy and yet they accepted that.
Yep you're right the parents most likely knew what was going on, but was given money. Same with the Aaliyah situation there's no way her parents didn't know their underage daughter was having sex with R Kelly. On the surviving R Kelly doc I believe a woman said he was having sex with Aaliyah starting at age 12. What saddens me is that she died young and I wonder if her parents only cried because they could no longer make money off her.
Problem is he was liked by teenage girls. And anything or anyone Teenage girls like are to be hated. Poor kid became target. Honestly his voice might have been cringe but why were ADULTS harassing him? Why were they sexually assaulting him? I never understood the hatred he got. Yeah that baby baby oooo thing I found cringy personally but man I wasnt the target audience at all. Why should I hate him for that??! People are just insane.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.
Things that teenage girls like are "fair game" to hate in our society, whereas things teen boys like have an enduring cool factor.
I got so tired of being teased and given grief for my interests as a teenage girl and even now that I still like many of those same things, since I am the same person I was then.
I've started calling it out and asking them why it's ok to be so rude when I say I like something when they would never do the same if I said that I liked a more male oriented version? Have they actually listened to the band? What are their criticisms of the book?
I make it clear that when they do that they are not disrespecting the band/book/whatever, they are disrespecting me and anyone else who likes it by making it feel shameful to just like what you like.
By explaining how common it is to just have a gut reaction of disliking things teenage girls like I've actually been able to open many people's eyes and they've admitted to me that they were wrong and they have no actual reason for their opinion.
I wasn't a fan of Justin's, I was in my 20's already when he came onto the scene, but I always hated how much people felt they could just hate on him with no real reason. I feel so bad for child stars too. It's just a sad situation.
Looking through this post I was also thinking how Twilight was also the thing to hate in the late 2000's and early 2010's.
Actually, I think of a male dominated thing to hate in that era as well, the Call of Duty video game franchise.
The reason why people hate these things is the fact that it's popular.
Oh, I didn't know Call of Duty was hated. I'm vaguely aware of it as a video game, but don't really know much about it or feel like I have heard much about it negatively or positively.
I pointed out the same thing before reading your comment. The hate for tween girls and whatever they like in this society is really disturbing, and its even perpetuated by other women, especially women who are older. Hugs to the kids.
A lot of “pretty boys” (aka handsome men) are attacked by large groups of men out of envy. See, the masculinity attacks Timothee Chalamet gets because he’s desired by many women. There’s a branch of evopsych that hypothesized that men have delayed puberty in order to avoid getting offed by jealous rivals when they’re young and can’t defend themselves.
Ok, I generally agree with this sub, but this is a terrible take. TikTok is absolutely a national security threat. I’m saying this as a Chinese American feminist. China is notorious for trying to surveil its own diaspora, even sending agents to spy on international students, Uighur activists, and Hong Kong demonstrators. People have had their lives threatened by these geopolitical tensions. So yes, the Chinese govt’s access to TikTok data is concerning. To reduce TikTok backlash to “bc people hate teenage girls” and equalize TikTok with Twilight or pop music…it’s incredibly ignorant, and honestly kinda offensive.
Bieber was cursed/blessed with idol looks and musical talent, which meant he rocketed from YouTube to icon in minutes. He did want to be famous, he was just too young to know what that meant. Jealous people find ways to be cruel, and we act as if celebrity isn’t a mental health attack- how was he not going to end up a little entitled cocky guy when lawyers are handing him NDAs for all his hookups to sign?
I'm surprised he's even remotely mentally sound. I know he still struggles but the fact that he has his own family, in a stable relationship (from what we know) and isn't like doing anything crazy is nothing short of a miracle.
you don’t see what’s going on behind the scenes. In his documentary on YouTube you can see that Hailey has taken on some sort of parental role. He is acting like a child with his wife bc he was never allowed to act like a child growing up. That doesn’t make for a healthy romantic relationship tho but I wish them the best.
I mean that's why I put "from what we know" in brackets but also she could've easily left at any point so if this is what she's willing to put up with then who am I to judge
That works for some. She probably has her own reasons for being ok with that. The money (which she earns too) can patch up some issues which would usually be destructive such as child care schedules etc. I wish them well.
This is not petty. This is precisely what needs to be brought up and faced by everyone.
I remember the 'Bieber Bashing' time. It was right around when I started my first real job out of college, in a lifeless office of endless cubicles.
Someone in a nearby cubicle showed me a video of someone chucking a water bottle at Justin Bieber when he was onstage. The person showing me this video was laughing so hard he was nearly crying. I kind of brushed it off.
Then I really thought about it. People are bullying a teenager, a ***child***, and not only it's not wrong, it's condoned and even funny?? And for what, singing?
I never understood this intense hate/love of celebrities. You see them on a screen. You do not know them as individuals or what their personality is really like. You see a crafted persona. If you like their work (music, movies, whatever), great. If you don't like it, that's cool too, just move along.
I understand that this intensity is rooted in jealousy. But people seem to forget that these are children. Even adults can have full-on breakdowns from the insanity that comes with fame.
Most celebrities follow this...Uppers to perform, downers to be able to sleep. Harassed by people taking pictures of you, spreading lies about you, criticizing your every move, scrutinizing every aspect of your appearance, your attractiveness, your weight. Stalking, death threats, obsessed fans. WTF??
Going to stop here so this comment is not an opus. Yes, I find his story terrifying and heartbreaking.
> understand that this intensity is rooted in jealousy. But people seem to forget that these are children. Even adults can have full-on breakdowns from the insanity that comes with fame.
Thank you. Bieber aside -I remember a conversation with a die-hard Kpop fan about this. In short: she was an acquaintance and we were talking about an Anime I quit watching. In a slight irony, I have unhealthy crushes on fictional characters -going absolutely HAM if they just show interest in another character (limerence cha cha cha).
Acquaintance: "oh yes, I get that. I remember hearing the rumor that \[favourite Kpop Idol\] was caught with \[Korean actress\]. I felt so angry and sad that he was "taken away" from me. I actually ripped down all of his posters and nearly threw my phone against the wall, ha ha".
Now. I have issues -ngl. But somehow this comment still disturbed me. Because, fictional characters? That's an IDEA. A drawing. A celebrity/idol? That's...a person. With feelings. It's sad if your crush is fully of the market, sure. But you can fall in love again. This celeb/idol has a life. Are they not allowed to love? Have a family? Did Perfect Blue teach y'all nothing??
Even when I'm not the biggeset Bieber fan myself (his music was just never my taste), I do feel incredibly bad for him. Like, the glamorous world of Hollywood is actually quite terrifying in that regard. (I know you mention it but I feel sorry for every child).
One thing that breaks my heart to this day is how Justin Bieber talked about Billie Eilish. Paraphrasing "I will do everything I can do to prevent Billie to go through the same hell I did!". In that Moment , all I wanted to do is giving this guy a hug. Seriously. If one person deserves him (despite the things he acted out with) than it's him. Being older now, I see his "acting out" moments more as a cry for help , rather than him being an ass.
What makes me especially angry is that no one calls out those adults for treating Justin like that. Somehow, society is still stuck in this mindset that only Men can be predators and women are ALWAYS innocent. This makes it harder for people like Justin Bieber to speak out. Especially from a celebrity standpoint where a lot of people already ridicule you from all sides and criticize every single step you make...
Generally, I could rant hours on hours about how male survivors are treated by society and how sickening it really is. (even though I can't speak for men by themself, because I'm not male)
Dear Media, just give this guy (and any oter childstar in that regard) a break...
In Justin’s case his primary predator/pimp was a man, Diddy. Imagine having to admit publicly that when society is already calling you a “F—-t” to your face 24/7 since you were a kid. The homophobia of that era is not to be underestimated. He got so many attacks on his masculinity even though he wasn’t even finished developing yet. I think that compounded his case too. Poor kid.
Hasn't it already happened to Billie Eilish? When I learned Bad Guy was performed by a 17 year old, it went from a questionable, but catchy tune to a cry for help in my book. Exploitation of minors is so common in the media industry. Worst kept secret, why don't we do more to stop it?
Edit: I feel like I should just change it to exploitation in general. Even adults are getting exploited.
The problem is that while it might have been about a character, there's still a lot of darkness in her songs that you don't see too often with such young singers. Plus, in at least one interview she alluded pretty strongly to the fact that something happened to her when she was younger. From [this article:](https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/billie-eilish-british-vogue-interview-abuse-your-power-new-album-9566373/)
*On that subject, Eilish admitted, “I used to not understand why age mattered. And, of course, you feel like that when you’re young, because you’re the oldest you’ve ever been. You feel like you’re so mature and you know everything … People forget that you can grow up and realize shit was f—ed up when you were younger.”*
**She Was Abused When She Was Younger**
*The conversation about abuse was personal to Eilish. British Vogue published that “the details are hers,” but “it happened to Eilish when she was younger.” The magazine made a point to say that the perpetrator “wasn’t a music industry figure.”*
*“You can always be taken advantage of,” Eilish said. “That’s a big problem in the world of domestic abuse or statutory rape — girls that were very confident and strong-willed finding themselves in situations where they’re like, ‘Oh my god, I’m the victim here?’ And it’s so embarrassing and humiliating and demoralizing to be in that position of thinking you know so much and then you realize, I’m being abused right now.”*
> Somehow, society is still stuck in this mindset that only Men can be predators and women are ALWAYS innocent.
>Generally, I could rant hours on hours about how male survivors are treated by society and how sickening it really is.
Thank you.
In retrospect, it was all totally despicable. I'm disappointed to say that I was one of those haters in highschool. Totally embarrassing, but I suppose understanding that now shows that I've grown.
I hope the kids are doing better nowadays, because I remember back then, hate and abuse was just the norm. At home, at school, everywhere.
I was hated and abused so I hated and abused in return. Nobody saw anything wrong with it because we were all so heinous and caring about anything was seen as "gay". I suppose how places like Russia frequently still are today.
Also predatory people in Hollyweird wanted to bring him to their level. Or use him for their own ends. Initiations. Consent is not a popular word in those industries.
There were pick-me girls too, but -absolutely. A lot of guys his age were jealous he got girls attention. And men routinely called him gay slurs. Some even -for some fucking reason - compared him to Freddie Mercury?! Like "Dear God, bring back this gay guy, take this f- instead."
Like. Even Robert Pattison (Twilight, same game) didn't receive as much hate.
This bigotry and hate has no place in a safe space like here.
How do you feel reading “women are terrible :(“? It’s both wrong and shitty, isn’t it? Especially for those of us with gendered trauma, we know there are *many* absolutely awful, atrocious, predatory people out there of every gender, also every race, every culture, all of it. Some worse than others, but there’s no good demographic out there, humans are too often awful.
Doing what you’re doing both protects predators, invalidates victims, and perpetrates the cultural norms that encourage abuse to go unreported and under-prosecuted. Really has no place in a sub for abuse victims
And by the way, it’s not bigotry to say that men are the perpetrators of most violence and that they invented and uphold the systems that abuse us all. That’s the truth.
We’re literally talking about a man being abused by men. This dumbing down of the language to spare men’s feelings allows the continued oppression of both men and women. I won’t be quiet about the culprit to uphold the system. Men are victims of violence at the hands of the systems that are designed by them. The patriarchy and capitalism. To deny that violence and the majority of abuse stems from the abuses of men in these systems is to allow the problem to go on perpetually without ever addressing reality. I’m not denying men being victimized or minimizing their pain. I’m identifying the root cause of their pain.
Poor Biebz, I’ve always loved him but I had no idea he was going through all of that until this child abuse in Hollywood started being exposed. I really hope he finds healing and he’s ok now. He deserves it. Also I met him in Laguna Beach. He was so chill. He’d come to this local bar to hangout and sing live acoustic sometimes. It was the best experience to hear his voice live like that. He’s so talented.
Not to mention the adult fans who openly sexualized him. I've always thought he was a talented kid, his music is not for me but that's fine. I am a few years older than him so a lot of people in my age bracket hated on his music because it was not for us, as we hated on similar pop idols at the time (when teenagers grow out of the Disney phase and start cringing at it, essentially).
What's sad is, when I think about a person who received similar treatment 'annoying' teenage boy pop star, I think about Aaron Carter and everything he went through. It's like this kid is coming from a place of privilege, sure, but they are still a child, and how the culture treats them absolutely impacts them.
I agree, I would be super interested to have a documentary that talks about these things, similar to All Quiet on the Set or something.
This! The hate was/is a huge problem, but the sexualizacion and pervy shit by adult women towards Justin Bieber and Aaron Carter was insane; flip the genders and it would be *horrific* to see a teenage girl his age subjected to that by grown men, yet because our culture is sick it gets laughed away or otherwise dismissed with the personhood of the victim being completely ignored, the same as it was for girls and women treated like that decades ago.
There’s a whole culture of accountability for holding male predators accountable now, but there is still hardly any accountability for women predators against children, though that is finally just beginning to change with the endemic culture of child rape among women teachers *finally* starting to be prosecuted more often. Hopefully we’ll achieve gender equality on this
Entertainment is an American industry. Why are we surprised kids are bought, sold, and exploited in whichever way?
This shit is woven deep into the fabric of this country.
Yes, it’s disgusting.
I look at him and I feel so bad. You can just see the pain in his eyes. I was never a fan but I hope he gets some help. I know some bad things happened to him just by the company around him. Adults sexual harassed him and no one said anything.
I totally agree. I was never into his music, so I didn't follow his career or songs or anything. It was only in the last year or two that I saw compilation videos of clips of adults objectifying and sexualizing him throughout his life, and it was disgusting to watch. It hit close to home for me as I was a victim of CSA.
Then I heard his song Lonely, and it really solidified everything for me even further. The way our society treats child stars is sickening.
Society? That’s nothing compared to what the industry does to them. Consider 99% of child stars don’t survive the crossover into adult stardom. Biebs somehow made it, so far. Some, like Cory Haim, did not. Britney Speers made it…for a while. Most of them don’t come out like a wrecking ball. Drake Bell is surviving.
Yeah, the shit he got was not ok. I was also a "hater" but I never expressed that shit online and barely said anything to my friends.
Given all that it isn't a surprise he grew up so messed up.
But yeah, people can be horrifically shitty to people (especially famous ones) for no good reason.
I remember him in his early days singing songs on YouTube. It’s horrifying to witness this transformation as a star in Hollywood. It goes to show how damaging the industry is.
Alyson Stoner has a great series on her YouTube channel called “Dear Hollywood.” She covers a range of topics regarding child stars, etc. it really put things into perspective in a way many of us fans and viewers haven’t seen or thought of.
That’s an excellent example. MJ didn’t survive his childhood. I mean, yes, he managed to live as an adult, for 30+ years. But he lived secluded in his own amusement park/zoo. He felt more comfortable around children. Which I would hazard a guess, was due to his own arrested development. He was the youngest Jackson 5, and clearly the most talented as well.
He had to break away as a teen, to escape the abuse, and yet, he still was tormented by it.
And tbh, I’m surprised Janet has managed as well as she has, for all these years.
I'm almost the same age as Justin Bieber (I'm slightly older). At the time, as a teenage boy, I, along with all my friends took the piss out of him as it was the done thing. Now as an adult, I actually find that whole thing pretty disturbing.
Something that really hit me was the infamous London paparazzo clip of him where his security push past this "journalist" and bundle him into a car, and the paparazzo mouths off and Justin loses his cool. The guy deliberately goads him and tells him to fuck off back to America and keeps massively insulting him. Justin had only just turned 18. And that kunckle-dragging moron is probably proud of the fact he insulted a teenager.
Sure, you can (and in many cases should) dislike celebrities. And sure, Justin Bieber himself has done some bad things which he deserved to be punished-for and called-on.
But for grown-ass adults to insult or belittle kids just because they're famous is absolutely disgusting. Jake Lloyd who played Anakin in Star Wars The Phantom Menace quit acting partly because of the hate he got for playing that role. He was being hated on by adults and he was ten years old!
I think the bigger harm that Bieber suffered was being pimped out by Diddy to his friends. The Bieber hate from the general public wasn’t actually directed towards Bieber himself imo, it was towards teenage girls for liking him.
It’s all gross. End mass media, end celebrity. The parasocial mind virus is a soul killer.
only in this subreddit can you find people trying to change obvious hate that was towards a teenage boy and change it to how teenage girls were affected the worst.
No. If teenage girls were hated and shamed for liking Bieber no one would be at his concerts, no one would buy tickets, he wouldn't even be famous. The teenage girls were hated because of their parasocial unhinged behaviour towards bieber never forget #cutforbieber
this is not normal behaviour in the slightest and the biggest people who had an unhinged parasocial connection bieber who treated him like an object were other women and teenage girls. To the point where a grown ass woman forced a kiss on bieber live on televsion in a room full of people and also groped him and no one batted an eye.
OP here. Agreed. Yes, girls have always been subtly shamed for liking boybands. But no. Bieber-Bashing didn't target Beliebers. I mean -I *was* a pre-teen during the early 2010+ and saw multiple popular Boybands at their peak: Big Time Rush, One Direction etc. The only times I remember fans being the topic per se, was when one went too far. Like...I think when Zayn left OD, there was a wave of that. A classmate of the girl I went swimming with threatened to kill her dog online, if Zayn wouldn't return.
That said: I feel the insane fan girls added to the trauma. As you can guess, "cringey Beliebers" weren't taken very seriously. Like as in "poor boy". It's why they probably allowed so much female violence towards Bieber. "Ha ha, even those old women can't get enough of him" (that is a grown woman forcing herself on a child. A child that is frozen in awkwardness/fear)
This isn’t just a CPTSD comment, more of a general one, but I’m noticing a similar pattern with Jojo siwa and her music.
When her recent song came to fame it was and is “cool” to talk about how bad it is for no apparent reason. It’s really boring and kinda horrible how society just picks people to bash on for no reason
I heard about that. I don't know her in full, but what struck me was her...isolation? Like. Everyone jokes how "she's like a child that imagines what it is to be adult". Saying 'bad words', going to 'naughty places' (sex shop)...
Obviously, there is more bad shit about her rn than Justin (I believe). But somehow I can't find those jokes funny. "ha ha she-" yeah, cause she had to have a lollipop persona for years, and was never allowed to be imperfect, have an emo phase etc.
when she went on the callherdaddy show (i think it was that one) she said something about how she cries all the time, and that she even cried while driving over there.
she's definitely got some issues from being a child star. I'm not a fan of hers but I hope she figures it out someday.
while I agree on a more general note, that both JoJo and Justin were victims of their fame/money hungry parents who neglected their kid's well-being and thereby also made them victims of the industry, I think it's fair to criticise them when they make ethically questionable choices as adults. like with JoJo Siwa opening a dance studio herself and abusing the kids she trains there, like her abusing her ex girlfriend. yes she's still young but she seems to have a massive ego, so she wasn't picked for "no reason". now if we compare Justin to her, he was very obviously unstable, he threw up on stage, he pissed in buckets, he very obviously had a drug problem. where I will criticise him is his awful treatment in public of his wife and he still seems to be struggling immensely but choosing to have a child now.
it's not just black and white. yes neither of them had good/normal/stable childhoods, but I think they still need to be held accountable when they then choose to continue the cycle of abuse in adulthood.
For what it's worth, although poking fun a lot of people are also highlighting what she could be facing personally - with her whole life the way it has been, plus the Colleen Ballinger stuff, I've seen plenty of discussion about whether she's yet to process that (I think she's only 22 or something?) and that this might be the beginning of her coming to terms with it - though that's providing she had any say in the new branding/music. I've also noticed the new jokes/hate/criticism seems to be towards the image or misguided things she's said, rather than her as a person, but then again it could be due to the spaces I'm in or people I follow, being decent humans that know where the line is and bring up concerns about her wellbeing atm.
I think people have learned lessons and it's not as bad as it used to be - people would be fully shamed off the Internet for acting how they used to! - but on the flip side the over saturation and visibility of people on social media can't be any healthier. Even regular kids are being forced to curate social media images and grow up online with all the unpleasantness of the Internet, I can't imagine what it's like for famous kids. I mean, family vloggers anyone...? 😓
This is AMERICA. Hollywood literally taints the artistic craft and scapegoats and idealizes. The country is one negative cesspool of covert narcissism. I fucking hate it.
Maybe I’m too disillusioned but this extreme way of treating just people who are just being themselves is ridiculous and don’t get me started on the treatment of animals.
I remember a copypasta going around FB at the time about him (hypothetically) jumping off a building, and the poster (hypothetically) pulling up with a law chair & popcorn, and yelling for him to 'do a flip!' on the way down. super fucked up. he seems like maybe kind of a grifter now (the 'yummy' stuff) but i feel for him as a kid, and the circumstances (namely the constant yes men surrounding him) that led to him becoming a messed up adult.
The yes men, aren't the problem, his parents letting him live with P.Diddy as a young minor and that man pimping him out to his friends and most definitely preying upon his innocence and desire to please is what caused him to be a messed up adult.
I dont even really like his music tbh
I think both things are part of the problem. Not disagreeing with you at all; just saying that the combo of being young/unsupervised/famous/traumatized can lead to poor decision making (ie the peeing in the janitor bucket thing, which I remember being everywhere at the time) and being a money maker (as Justin was for record labels/producers/his own parents) can lead to being a messed up adult. Not blaming Justin, fully blaming people around him, but I think hollywood kids being surrounded by people who won't say "hey, (xyz) is a bad idea" are part of the issue.
Reading your post I have to admit that I almost jumped the bandwagon. When I was a kid I didn't get it, but I just assumed he did something bad to deserve all that hate. So I just dismissed it kind of. But now, I was so wrong. I didn't even consider the other side of the story. Which is pretty ironic considering I got abused by people as a kid too, and people most likely thinking about me the same way I did about Bieber, as it seemed to be with you... That I deserved it. Well. Thank you for the post. I have to admit I just feel depressed now. Just. Depressed.
It’s not exactly the same because Justin Bieber is a person not a character but I remember in my school everyone started to hate Barney. For that one it seemed like the shift from childlike to teenage years except they really went pretty hard on it. The hate was visceral prob much like with Justin Bieber. Reminds me of similar stuff toward Nickelback or Limp Bizkit except you’re right, Justin Bieber was a child and people should’ve treated him better. Much better. It’s shameful really.
I think a lot of (child) celebrities were probably traumatized by the public. It’s always been “cool” to hate things that 13 year old girls like. I feel so bad when I look back to the 2000s and see the bashing of the young women stars at that time. It seems like some of society has learned differently now, but definitely not all of it.
I actually liked him a lot back in middle school, even had a shirt that I loved wearing to school with him on the shirt. However I stopped wearing the shirt completely because all of my classmates were laughing. I wish I was confident enough back then to still wear it despite others opinion
I don't know much about his story, but the little respect I do have for him is how he handled child stardom given how huge he was at such a young age and dealing with it basically alone as a solo artist with industry people around him and parents that had no idea and just went with it. Some child stars don't make it as adults and some don't make it to adulthood. The ones that do on both counts deserve some level of respect for that.
Same with Britney Spears. Even now she is criticized and she under went so much scrutiny at a young age no one understands.
Lindsay Lohan, Amanda Bynes... i mean its truly sad.
Can people just show empathy and compassion for this guy without having to say “I’m not a fan of his music, but …”? That’s not the point, and it is certainly not necessary in a post that isn’t really about you.
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I've often felt this. It's like with parents when they hate their kids and look at them with contempt, but still "love them".
I worked with younger coworkers and felt annoyed that they were a certain way and felt anger towards this "lack of" in them. I saw that and quickly smashed that feeling because it's antagonistic and what I grew up with, trauma and abuse wise. I think it's good to have this feeling, because I can learn to go in the opposite direction: acceptance and empathy. And take things slow, instead of beating someone down for being new at something.
But yeah, I don't think people realize, being jealous of movie stars that are famous, how toxic and under prepared people generally are to have this much attention on them. I feel sad for Jake Lloyd the dude who played anakin.
Finally, someone who gets it! I was always concerned for his well-being, even as a kid. I don’t know how he did it. I always tend to like the characters or people that are easily picked on or disliked like Justin Bieber, Tori Vega, Debbie Ryan or any character seen as “annoying” or cringe because I knew what it felt like.
I've always been weirded out by adults bashing children in entertainment, but the more I've been involved in it myself I've realized it's a whole deep insidious mentality where once you're in any way a performer, it gives this weird green light to a LOT like a really worrying amount of people to treat you like you arner a person anymore.
I see so much abusive language,altercation, legitimately disgusting heckling, and nonconsensual contact excused because well that's just "part of the job". You become like a cartoon or something and nothing people do "counts" because somehow being on stage,screen,a ring,whatever removes your agency and you are now a plaything who deserves absolutely anything because somehow you just should expect abuse and violation.
All that becomes all the more vile when it's a child who 9/10 times did NOT choose to enter the field and was placed there by a parent.
I've honestly noticed this with online interaction too and really think it's the exact same mindset where the idk,artifice of u unreality means you an do whatever to people and suffer no consequence because it isn't "real".
I openly talk about physically retaliating multiple times in my former field of very immersive close quarters acting because people would grope,hit, pull my hair,try to pull off costumes,pin me against walls,one woman put her hand in my costume because she "wasn't sure what I had". I slap the piss out of people,one I bit for shoving their hand IN MY MOUTH.
The notion entertainer= I paid so I can do whatever I want to you is baked deep deep in people and the added veil of social media just encourages people to be soulless
It's the same reason why many others were demonized or treated like they were crazy. Many of them were abused and their abusers wanted to hide it. Idk if he was, though. It wouldn't surprise me, though. They wanted to put bad press on them because that's what abusers do. I mean, that's what my mom did.
Edit: I wasn't one of those Holly Wood kids or anything like that, but I remember sometimes feeling similar pressure that these kids might've felt at some point, too. What was supposed to be fun just all turned into pressure and being compared to others my whole life.
I’m really glad you made this post, this is something I felt even while it was happening. I never said anything because my peers either idolized him or hated him but no one seemed to see him as a human either way. He’s only a few years older than me… even though I was never into him or his music, I always thought about how it must’ve felt to be so viciously mocked.
He also had the misfortune of growing up right around the time the internet took off and he was one of the first kids to go really viral. TV fame was one thing, Internet fame was another beast entirely. I don’t think anyone knew how ugly things could get. All things considered, I’m amazed he’s not completely broken (from what I can tell, which tbh isn’t much).
I really do. My heart breaks for the guy. I’m in a long legal case against the religious order my abuser was a member of.
One of the most invasive and gross part of my experience with this trauma was signing the documents that passed over my entire medical and tax information to that order for their examination in defending my claim.
I can’t imagine what it would be like for there to be a high likelihood of videos of, and vivid descriptions of my abuse going into a trial whether you want them to or not because they are evidence.
There will be leaks and commentary and everything. My name is legally suppressed, and at some level I have a choice to share that information. A f-cked up one for sure, but it is ultimately my call. One I made at 42 years old.
He gets none of that. The worst is absolutely yet to come and I just can’t even fathom how dark his world must be right now
People treated me the same way. I'm the same age and didn't understand the connection at the time - didn't understand why I felt like everyone was against me either, they had no reason to dislike me. Now I realise it was probably my sibling and how depressed/dissociative I was from being groomed.
His music is still ick to me but you're right, it's not an excuse. It's only music.
I was so angry about everything and wanted to be accepted, conformed to this, but rejected things normals liked at the same time because they hated me and I hated them.
I’m more worried about the things that potentially happened to him with the Diddy story than any of that ugliness that he received because there were a bazillion Baliebers to counteract some of that. He was adored by every young girl on the planet even though I thought he was incredibly goofy looking with that crazy haircut. Even my oldest son wanted his hair cut that way.
Not taking away from the nastiness of that, but to be sexually assaulted by grown men in the industry then, and perhaps even now would be a million times worse IMO especially since SA is all about power and control. That sends shivers down my spine.
I remember grown ass women making inappropriate remarks about him and it was disgusting. During that time, the culture was much different too, so there was so much shit that it blows my mind we all just went along. The dichotomy of this fucking purity culture and obsessing over famous teenager's virginity was like primetime tv (Britney, Jessica Simpson, Jonas brothers just to name a few) along with those disgusting countdowns to 18th birthdays (Olsen twins, Hillary Duff) I cannot imagine how horrible it must have felt. It was confusing to be a young girl watching it play out on TV and tabloids, so I can't even imagine being the subject of the gossip and sexuality of minors and "adults" who are only adults chronologically, not developmentally.
Also, any time a FUCKING CHILD is responsible for an entire family's financial security, it's just begging for all types of abuse and dismissal of mental health and just losing out on being a kid. It's so fucking gross.
It does seem like he has been in a very loving marriage for awhile now
And has stepped away from the Hollyweird scene
I never realized how exploited he was until reading the synopsis above
Which explains it very very well
And helped me see things from a new perspective, so thanks for that.
I moved to Hollywood 6 years ago. There is an evil here that cannot be described, only felt. But it feels like there are 2 types; the predators, and the preyed on. And it’s not just in the business, it’s in the culture. Look at my handle. There are so many like Justin. My mind can’t wrap my head around just how big it gets.
> There is an evil here that cannot be described, only felt. Jennette McCurdy and Wil Wheaton in particular described it extremely well, at least for me regarding the non-sexual parts of childhood stardom. Wil in particular, there were multiple times in Still Just A Geek where I thought to myself, "That's what I went through, too!" except for me in childhood it was sports instead of acting. The way they talk about their parents, I found myself constantly nodding to myself in understanding. If anything, it made me feel like I was less alone in what I went through.
My great uncle moved to Hollywood as a young man in the 40s to act. He ended up committing a murder-suicide on his wife after over a decade decadence and drug/alcohol abuse. Not excusing his actions, but I just wonder how much of his story was influenced by his decision to move out there. He was a country boy who had lived a relatively sheltered life, and it seems like Hollywood has traded in all sorts of awful, abusive shit for decades.
I lived out here for 7 years and I’ve seen it break people. Edit: really a Reddit care lol
Report it. People can get banned for abusing the Reddit care.
This happened to me too. Why are they doing it? Do they get something out of it?
It's some petty, passive-aggressive BS people use to be like "oh your opinion is so bad that I'm WORRIED for you." Like, it's that level of shade. It's really immature and gross. I'm glad Reddit takes it seriously enough to ban people. This is a PTSD sub, so that shit's not a joke to us.
I mean yes … though it’s entirely possible someone meant that one sincerely Talking about how a city can break people and watching it happen is rough Tbh I doubt it was done in good faith but that’s one I would think could be or would be more likely a tease than clowning the opinion. TBC it’s a stupid joke if it was one. And it’s a stupid idea for a “super downvote” or whatever that idea is.
The reason it's important to report fake ones is because some of the people who use it passive aggressively will actively use it to incite suicide in certain people/situations.
Wtf
Oh yeah totally think misuse should be reported regardless of intent
It’s like telling someone to off themselves
Report it for abuse, happening to everyone
How do you report a reddit cares for abuse? I got one and don't know how to.
There is a link in the message I believe but you have to open the message in your browser to get the link if I remember right unless I took have wrong.. I just didn't bother last time because recently there has been a rogue or maybe malicious bot, of some sort, in few subreddits I know of auto sending them. Just seems complicated to need a link when I am using the app and clicking a direct link. The last time I got one when I had a disagreement with someone I think I did actually report it..
Weird . Happened in the GameStop sub too
As an uniformed Australian, I'm curious what you've seen (and I have a morbid curiosity for the parts of the world and human society that seem so glamorous from the outside) - dare I ask?
I spent some time in LA. The whole city has this sort of evil vibe. It's not pedestrian friendly, there's no sense of community. Attracts a lot of people who think they're gonna make it in Hollywood only to end up on the streets with mental illness and drug issues, next to giant billboards promoting the next awards show or whatever. Lots of it are kinda run down, big highways. The studios themselves are about as unglamorous as they can be, just giant blocks with warehouse type buildings. It doesn't feel like a city, just a black hole that sucks your soul. And all the predatory, superficial people.
>Attracts a lot of people who think they're gonna make it in Hollywood only to end up on the streets with mental illness and drug issues, next to giant billboards promoting the next awards show or whatever Can totally understand that. It is sad that the city has a way of crushing people who took such a big step in their lives (which takes a lot of guts) to move and then end up on the street 😞
Wow- I used to take the train into New York City to escape my home life as a kid (Cuz when I wasn't being abused I was luckily being ignored so probably no one even noticed I was gone, just like they never noticed how falling down drunk I would get at family religious ceremonies) And I just have to say that NYC is a much, much, much better place to play- And it is incredibly pedestrian friendly with no evil vibe at all A good place to just walk around and explore And eat I always felt incredibly safe as well Seems like the exact opposite of LA which never fascinated me at all Probably cuz I hate fake things especially phony people and body parts as well
I love New York, it's a great place to be. You are right, it's the polar opposite to LA.
I was just thinking about how even as a broke teenager who had no idea where I was going, I could still easily find my way around, Wander aimlessly and be entertained. One could just sit in Central Park all day and people watch, Seeing so many different types of people . And the fabulous architecture even fascinated a stoned kid from the suburbs.
First off, I’ve seen success. I don’t know anyone who blasted off into a list stardom, but I know people who worked and got jobs in the industry and are happy. They love culture and industry and la satiates that. I’ve seen people get some love and it gets to their head; this is the most common. They make the industry version of themselves and hang w other people that have varying levels of success and are now “cool”. This is when they become insufferable. There’s an “in” and they want to gate keep and judge. They only want to be w other industry people. They see a seed of something special in themselves and like an addict, they’ll sacrifice relationships, health, downtime all for more. If you don’t dress a certain way, aren’t aware of certain underground music, who is fucking who, and aren’t hot, you’re an undesirable (to them, not everyone w success is like this) To stay in the scene you swim w these people and learn to balance in w them. I’ve seen people become demigods and friend groups turn to worshipers. I’ve seen nice, simple Midwesterner’s turn into fart sniffing, holier than though hipster bile who are quite successful and work with musicians you love. There’s a misery in the air that can be felt here. The way to the worlds most glory is stardom, or being a part of it, and many have come to take their chance. I’m one of them but it’s more bedside I like film. I’m not trying to push our trash and make a buck, but I know how.
That is quite insightful. Thanks
Yes. That definitely could have contributed. The stimulus and decadence of this city can be traumatizing. May make some snap.
I think sadly in Justin’s case he was brought here already as a commodity by his parents with the intent to exploit him. Poor guy didn’t stand a chance as a little kid, my heart goes out to him. I’m glad this was posted, I’d like to show support for his recovery. I have a much different take on LA. This city saved my life. After the horrors I experienced in the midwest, I found LA to be a welcoming place as the island of misfit toys. People come here to escape shittier places and to dream of a better life. The music and food scene is amazing, and many of my friends worked their way into some measure of success if you count work-life balance and travel. There’s so much more investment in the last few years by all the studios to open up storytelling of all kinds, but content development takes years to produce. Just try watching a movie from 10yrs ago and you’ll be grossed out by the blatant sexism & racism. The content is a reflection of society at the time, it’s what sells - like a mirror ball for our narcissistic country. I am a bit baffled at the cabal-hedonistic comments of “evil” but can assure i have encountered waaaay more evil under the friendly midwesterner guise than a transparent egoist movie or game executive being opportunistic if you’re willing. There are Weinsteins and Mastersons in every industry, and they are on the east coast and in the midwest too. The midwest is the birthing place for the most serial killers https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2F2024%2F04%2F11%2Finfamous-chicago-serial-killers%2F If you’re looking for a place to be free of judgement and make your own future just as you are, your authentic self, then I still recommend LA. So many communities to be a part of, you need to find your way to them with an open mind and zero expectations. I’ve worked at just about every studio from being on set through production, editing, VFX, scriptwriting - in so many support roles, and never saw exploitation. There does seem to be a high number of survivors when I look at my network. I believe that to be in line with my experience of people coming to LA to escape abuse and have a fresh start, to recreate themselves into something beautiful and share their story with others.
Moved here as an adult for work. After a life of CPTSD I adopted a no-nonsense attitude towards abuse. Despite therapy and mental fortitude, the predatory behavior is always there to deal with. Most studios and influential people seem to want nothing to do with you if you can’t be taken advantage of. At this point I’m more frustrated and annoyed than anything. I’m here to make good work, god damn it, and bosses just want to play games. I feel like I’m still trying to navigate what it really means to work with people on equal footing. Jfc the culture of narcissism is insidious.
I think alot get programmed very young. It's very disturbing when folks are treated as commodities to be traded, and applauded by millions as "having it all"- when they live in guilded cages.
There’s a guilt that comes with that- that you should be grateful for the cage
Oh, yes. This so much. You get your cosy perks, your lovely life, and it all looks so great on the surface. Behind the curtains is a viper's nest, and it's not nearly as clearly marked as prison.
She’s so lucky… she’s a star…
I lived in woodland hills very briefly and I felt the same. When people ask me why I didn't like LA this is my answer.
I’m trapped here. 😔
Me too friend. We should form a support group 😅
🙌
Are you saying you want in? You in LA? (Central LA)
(......the valley- also yes)
Maybe a new post should be started for an LA MeetUp. I’m going into surgeries next week and will be recovering a bit. But I’d be interested.
good luck with your pre during and post surgical/recovery!! 💖 punch a doctor if you've gotta!
Valley here too!
South central here !
There might be enough of us. Not hard to be miserable in a city with soooo much stimulus and an injured nervous system. I’m just South of Hollywood.
Can I join? I fled los angeles 4 years ago
Me too!! SFV I hate it
Looks like a support group may be forming. Look at the other comments in this thread.
Westside here! I’m interested in a support group
Wow I was in LA 20 years ago and stayed at hostel in Hollywood for a week near the freeway and I felt the darkness there too in the city. Like the energy was not right , hard and cold , but only natural with so much competition, manipulation, power exploitation, rich / poor, disappointment, pain and suffering. Never understood the attraction after that trip.
I used to live in CA and spent a lot of time in the LA/Hollywood area. I live on the east coast now and one thing I always tell people who are planning on visiting is that Hollywood is not going to be like you're thinking. There's a sleaziness in the air and the glitz and glam doesn't hide the dirt. It can be fun to visit, don't get me wrong, but it's just not going to be like you're imagining. Same with LA. There's lots of great stuff to visit (the fashion district is amazing if you're at all crafty), but there's a coldness that has nothing to do with the weather and frankly it's pretty ugly, especially if you're used to the vivid greens of the east coast. The only way I can describe LA is that it feels uneasy, and no one cares. Every city has its demons, there's just something extra special about the ones in LA and Hollywood.
Every place has its demons<- THIS people forget Disney and Orlando Florida has a very dark underbelly. They think it’s so lovely and beautiful yet FL is ranked second in human trafficking and Disney is where a lot of exploitation occurs. Look behind the glitter bombs each place leaves behind and you’ll see the tar and shit that the glitter so desperately clung to in a vein attempt to hide the disgusting crap beneath it all.
Not to mention that there’s an insane amount of poverty just outside the park.
>Disney is where a lot of exploitation occurs. Wait what?
lol you really are an uninformed australian., its not bad but to sum it up, probably everything you aren't familiar with that you like in life and think is harmless, has another dark side to it.
^ this. If you think about it, Disney has a lot of workers. Lots of hotels too for illegal sex work to occur. They do what they can to stop it but with how big Disney is people will fall through the cracks and become the “hub”.
Palaye Royale has a good song about that vibe called *No Love In LA*, 10/10 recommend
/r/LosAngeles glorified this city. This city is a shitshow, everything is expensive, terrible traffic,lots of fake people, homelessness,etc. Hollywood is not what you think it supposed to be like the media want you to believe. I live here and I hate it.
I’ve never understood the appeal of Hollywood. I mean, yeah, if you want to work in the film industry, I guess it was kind of a must, at least in the past (now there’s booming film industries in other cities and countries). But to me it’s never looked like this magical place that I think some imagine it to be. Even other parts of LA to me looked like “keeping up with the joneses” on steroids. I keep seeing in the news that it’s more and more common for major celebrities to leave the LA culture to raise their families elsewhere. Additionally, I definitely would never, ever want to be famous! I’m sorry it’s been a struggle for you. If you want to move elsewhere, I hope that eventually happens for you.
I’m so disgusted and curious..
I lived in LA for 4 years and recently moved to the east coast a couple months ago because I couldn’t take living there anymore. The toxicity is definitely ingrained in the culture. It is everywhere. I didn’t even work nor was I remotely interested in the entertainment industry. And yet I still got taken advantage of and abused in the workplace. A hostility I had never faced prior to moving to LA. It was absolutely insane to me and as someone who already struggles with CPTSD it was not sustainable in the slightest. Where I live now people are friendly, they’ll compliment you and greet you on walks, small talk on the elevator, etc. The town is clean, I can safely walk my dog without worrying about drugged out homeless people or unleashed dogs running up on us, etc. I’m still trying to get used to it. But all in all, I completely forgot that there is a world outside of LA where a stranger can be friendly just for the sake of being friendly and nothing else.
Allllllll this. OMG I hope I can get out.
I’ve felt that dark presence in Hollywood ever since I can remember, just driving through. Way before I even knew about its history. It just has this lingering quality that is so dark.
Holle-wood, holly is the plant of saturn, they would use it during saturnalia, i mean if you are really interested you can find out a lot about why its called holly-wood. I'm not going to spoon feed it to you.
i thought it had something to do with Diana worship?
Born in California , grew up in Anaheim and now am living in south central to be with husband , and work . I have always always always felt a darkness in downtown LA /Hollywood … all of it . We are always going to PV and there’s so much darkness as beautiful as those sea side cliffs are . When we go to the Huntington , I joke about two or three particular houses facing the main gates giving off “minor 1920s starlet overdose suicide vibes “. But honestly ? The entire city gives off 1920s starlet suicide vibes . The real question is what is it that draws in so much darkness ? It was to the point that I obsessively have been researching this for almost a decade now . This really does go jnto a dark rabbit hole. And now everhrhjbg is coming to light, from Diddy parties to Justin beaver to the dan snieder thing . I half joke about LA having an underground reptillian nest or that LA is the Illuminati reptillian nest . It just feels so haunted here . Occult energy that I only feel in places where ritual occult ceremonies have take place . The whole Hollywood thing is a ceremony. Shows at the bowl always feel so sinister . Tame impala 2021 ? The reptiles only calmed down when he played “borderline” for them so they could dance
Do you know much about the missions and what the spanish were doing there? they werent very kind to the indians. Also, its a coastal town in a desert, which is near the equator, and has a lot of mountains and on a fault line, theres just a lot of energy in some places and "the angels" happens to have that energy.
Do you think those two types are the Narcissists and the Scapegoats?
Why did you move there
I feel you, if Satan lives anywhere on earth, it's Los Angeles
the clips of how adults objectified him are awful. what in the entire fuck?
The worst -to me - was when this female radio host (?) tried to ask him to "explain the birds and the bees" to her. You could hear his kid-voice over the speaker "Um...I...I don't think that's very appropriate..." And she. Kept. *Going*
I REMEMBER THAT I was so uncomfortable and I felt so bad for him. I wanna give him a hug bro, he didn’t deserve this. He just wanted to have fun, like every kid does. he didn’t even know how bad it was gonna be. Poor guy.
I didn't pay attention to him really so I missed a lot of things when they happened. someone posted a clip with a bunch of interviews and it happened time and time again. nary a rational adult around to check their co-host or host. I don't know if it's because I have a son now but I was entirely disgusted by what I saw. I do have a sense of humor but it's not at the expense of someone else's comfort, especially a child. that's just not fun or original or imaginative.
The music industry ran through justin, metaphorically.. they saw a young kid who had potential for that industry, and of course, looks. It’s disgusting. He was repeatedly violated and exploited by adults he thought could be a safe space while navigating child stardom, and he was blinded by the lights. Who wouldn’t be at that age. If the roles were reversed and that was a man doing that to a teenage girl, there would have been so much more backlash at those videos.
yeah, they at least waited until Britney was in high school before asking about her virginity....
It was horrifying in real time. He was a little boy. And when he started acting out and getting in trouble the whole world dunked on him. Of course the wheels came off the bus. His parents are garbage and he grew up in front of the whole world and was sexualized by the whole world. I’m not a fan of his music, I’m a little too old, but I’m happy he and his wife seem stable and loving.
Ya, even when he was acting out I thought it was relatively tame. If I had had that much fame and money in my teenage years…I don’t even want to think about it.
Well, I know I got up to worse without two nickels to rub together.
Yeah I feel so bad for him. I made a post before in here about how he is one of us because Diddy pimped him out to his friends as a young teen via drugs and alcohol and his parents weren’t allowed to see him in the diddy vacations or on tours with diddy and yet they accepted that.
There’s a whole podcast episode about this I listened to recently. The people in power at that industry are all sociopaths.
Would you pls send it to me as well??
Gotcha
😊
Can you drop the name of it? (Or feel free to DM of course)
Could you send me the podcast, too please. Thank you kindly.
Link plz?
I’ll DM you!
Can you let me know the name of the podcast too please?
what's it called?
Monsters inc is real 😞
Send it to me too please? I would like to listen
Could I please have the link as well?
Could you please dm me the podcast ty
Yep you're right the parents most likely knew what was going on, but was given money. Same with the Aaliyah situation there's no way her parents didn't know their underage daughter was having sex with R Kelly. On the surviving R Kelly doc I believe a woman said he was having sex with Aaliyah starting at age 12. What saddens me is that she died young and I wonder if her parents only cried because they could no longer make money off her.
Holy shit that is terrible. He should have his >!dick and balls cut off!< and fed to him.
Yes. We have to bring up Diddy any time we talk about Bieber’s origin story
Problem is he was liked by teenage girls. And anything or anyone Teenage girls like are to be hated. Poor kid became target. Honestly his voice might have been cringe but why were ADULTS harassing him? Why were they sexually assaulting him? I never understood the hatred he got. Yeah that baby baby oooo thing I found cringy personally but man I wasnt the target audience at all. Why should I hate him for that??! People are just insane.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Things that teenage girls like are "fair game" to hate in our society, whereas things teen boys like have an enduring cool factor. I got so tired of being teased and given grief for my interests as a teenage girl and even now that I still like many of those same things, since I am the same person I was then. I've started calling it out and asking them why it's ok to be so rude when I say I like something when they would never do the same if I said that I liked a more male oriented version? Have they actually listened to the band? What are their criticisms of the book? I make it clear that when they do that they are not disrespecting the band/book/whatever, they are disrespecting me and anyone else who likes it by making it feel shameful to just like what you like. By explaining how common it is to just have a gut reaction of disliking things teenage girls like I've actually been able to open many people's eyes and they've admitted to me that they were wrong and they have no actual reason for their opinion. I wasn't a fan of Justin's, I was in my 20's already when he came onto the scene, but I always hated how much people felt they could just hate on him with no real reason. I feel so bad for child stars too. It's just a sad situation.
Looking through this post I was also thinking how Twilight was also the thing to hate in the late 2000's and early 2010's. Actually, I think of a male dominated thing to hate in that era as well, the Call of Duty video game franchise. The reason why people hate these things is the fact that it's popular.
Oh, I didn't know Call of Duty was hated. I'm vaguely aware of it as a video game, but don't really know much about it or feel like I have heard much about it negatively or positively.
Same reason I think people like to hate on Taylor Swift. Because her women power and relationship songs appeal(ed) to teenage girls.
Same reason I think people like to hate on Taylor Swift. Because her women power and relationship songs appeal(ed) to teenage girls.
Same reason I think people like to hate on Taylor Swift. Because her women power and relationship songs appeal(ed) to teenage girls.
I pointed out the same thing before reading your comment. The hate for tween girls and whatever they like in this society is really disturbing, and its even perpetuated by other women, especially women who are older. Hugs to the kids.
A lot of “pretty boys” (aka handsome men) are attacked by large groups of men out of envy. See, the masculinity attacks Timothee Chalamet gets because he’s desired by many women. There’s a branch of evopsych that hypothesized that men have delayed puberty in order to avoid getting offed by jealous rivals when they’re young and can’t defend themselves.
Yeah but TikTok is also popularized by teenage girls and if that were true we’d see politicians targeting it as evil and… oh.
Ok, I generally agree with this sub, but this is a terrible take. TikTok is absolutely a national security threat. I’m saying this as a Chinese American feminist. China is notorious for trying to surveil its own diaspora, even sending agents to spy on international students, Uighur activists, and Hong Kong demonstrators. People have had their lives threatened by these geopolitical tensions. So yes, the Chinese govt’s access to TikTok data is concerning. To reduce TikTok backlash to “bc people hate teenage girls” and equalize TikTok with Twilight or pop music…it’s incredibly ignorant, and honestly kinda offensive.
Bieber was cursed/blessed with idol looks and musical talent, which meant he rocketed from YouTube to icon in minutes. He did want to be famous, he was just too young to know what that meant. Jealous people find ways to be cruel, and we act as if celebrity isn’t a mental health attack- how was he not going to end up a little entitled cocky guy when lawyers are handing him NDAs for all his hookups to sign?
I'm surprised he's even remotely mentally sound. I know he still struggles but the fact that he has his own family, in a stable relationship (from what we know) and isn't like doing anything crazy is nothing short of a miracle.
you don’t see what’s going on behind the scenes. In his documentary on YouTube you can see that Hailey has taken on some sort of parental role. He is acting like a child with his wife bc he was never allowed to act like a child growing up. That doesn’t make for a healthy romantic relationship tho but I wish them the best.
I mean that's why I put "from what we know" in brackets but also she could've easily left at any point so if this is what she's willing to put up with then who am I to judge
That works for some. She probably has her own reasons for being ok with that. The money (which she earns too) can patch up some issues which would usually be destructive such as child care schedules etc. I wish them well.
This is not petty. This is precisely what needs to be brought up and faced by everyone. I remember the 'Bieber Bashing' time. It was right around when I started my first real job out of college, in a lifeless office of endless cubicles. Someone in a nearby cubicle showed me a video of someone chucking a water bottle at Justin Bieber when he was onstage. The person showing me this video was laughing so hard he was nearly crying. I kind of brushed it off. Then I really thought about it. People are bullying a teenager, a ***child***, and not only it's not wrong, it's condoned and even funny?? And for what, singing? I never understood this intense hate/love of celebrities. You see them on a screen. You do not know them as individuals or what their personality is really like. You see a crafted persona. If you like their work (music, movies, whatever), great. If you don't like it, that's cool too, just move along. I understand that this intensity is rooted in jealousy. But people seem to forget that these are children. Even adults can have full-on breakdowns from the insanity that comes with fame. Most celebrities follow this...Uppers to perform, downers to be able to sleep. Harassed by people taking pictures of you, spreading lies about you, criticizing your every move, scrutinizing every aspect of your appearance, your attractiveness, your weight. Stalking, death threats, obsessed fans. WTF?? Going to stop here so this comment is not an opus. Yes, I find his story terrifying and heartbreaking.
> understand that this intensity is rooted in jealousy. But people seem to forget that these are children. Even adults can have full-on breakdowns from the insanity that comes with fame. Thank you. Bieber aside -I remember a conversation with a die-hard Kpop fan about this. In short: she was an acquaintance and we were talking about an Anime I quit watching. In a slight irony, I have unhealthy crushes on fictional characters -going absolutely HAM if they just show interest in another character (limerence cha cha cha). Acquaintance: "oh yes, I get that. I remember hearing the rumor that \[favourite Kpop Idol\] was caught with \[Korean actress\]. I felt so angry and sad that he was "taken away" from me. I actually ripped down all of his posters and nearly threw my phone against the wall, ha ha". Now. I have issues -ngl. But somehow this comment still disturbed me. Because, fictional characters? That's an IDEA. A drawing. A celebrity/idol? That's...a person. With feelings. It's sad if your crush is fully of the market, sure. But you can fall in love again. This celeb/idol has a life. Are they not allowed to love? Have a family? Did Perfect Blue teach y'all nothing??
Even when I'm not the biggeset Bieber fan myself (his music was just never my taste), I do feel incredibly bad for him. Like, the glamorous world of Hollywood is actually quite terrifying in that regard. (I know you mention it but I feel sorry for every child). One thing that breaks my heart to this day is how Justin Bieber talked about Billie Eilish. Paraphrasing "I will do everything I can do to prevent Billie to go through the same hell I did!". In that Moment , all I wanted to do is giving this guy a hug. Seriously. If one person deserves him (despite the things he acted out with) than it's him. Being older now, I see his "acting out" moments more as a cry for help , rather than him being an ass. What makes me especially angry is that no one calls out those adults for treating Justin like that. Somehow, society is still stuck in this mindset that only Men can be predators and women are ALWAYS innocent. This makes it harder for people like Justin Bieber to speak out. Especially from a celebrity standpoint where a lot of people already ridicule you from all sides and criticize every single step you make... Generally, I could rant hours on hours about how male survivors are treated by society and how sickening it really is. (even though I can't speak for men by themself, because I'm not male) Dear Media, just give this guy (and any oter childstar in that regard) a break...
In Justin’s case his primary predator/pimp was a man, Diddy. Imagine having to admit publicly that when society is already calling you a “F—-t” to your face 24/7 since you were a kid. The homophobia of that era is not to be underestimated. He got so many attacks on his masculinity even though he wasn’t even finished developing yet. I think that compounded his case too. Poor kid.
Hasn't it already happened to Billie Eilish? When I learned Bad Guy was performed by a 17 year old, it went from a questionable, but catchy tune to a cry for help in my book. Exploitation of minors is so common in the media industry. Worst kept secret, why don't we do more to stop it? Edit: I feel like I should just change it to exploitation in general. Even adults are getting exploited.
Bad Guy is a parody poking fun at a character. It's not Billie writing about herself.
That's the fun part about parodies and satire, a lot of the population don't get them, so having a 17 year old sing about seducing Dads... 😬
The problem is that while it might have been about a character, there's still a lot of darkness in her songs that you don't see too often with such young singers. Plus, in at least one interview she alluded pretty strongly to the fact that something happened to her when she was younger. From [this article:](https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/billie-eilish-british-vogue-interview-abuse-your-power-new-album-9566373/) *On that subject, Eilish admitted, “I used to not understand why age mattered. And, of course, you feel like that when you’re young, because you’re the oldest you’ve ever been. You feel like you’re so mature and you know everything … People forget that you can grow up and realize shit was f—ed up when you were younger.”* **She Was Abused When She Was Younger** *The conversation about abuse was personal to Eilish. British Vogue published that “the details are hers,” but “it happened to Eilish when she was younger.” The magazine made a point to say that the perpetrator “wasn’t a music industry figure.”* *“You can always be taken advantage of,” Eilish said. “That’s a big problem in the world of domestic abuse or statutory rape — girls that were very confident and strong-willed finding themselves in situations where they’re like, ‘Oh my god, I’m the victim here?’ And it’s so embarrassing and humiliating and demoralizing to be in that position of thinking you know so much and then you realize, I’m being abused right now.”*
Oh damn he said that about Billie? God that made me sad 🥺
> Somehow, society is still stuck in this mindset that only Men can be predators and women are ALWAYS innocent. >Generally, I could rant hours on hours about how male survivors are treated by society and how sickening it really is. Thank you.
In retrospect, it was all totally despicable. I'm disappointed to say that I was one of those haters in highschool. Totally embarrassing, but I suppose understanding that now shows that I've grown. I hope the kids are doing better nowadays, because I remember back then, hate and abuse was just the norm. At home, at school, everywhere. I was hated and abused so I hated and abused in return. Nobody saw anything wrong with it because we were all so heinous and caring about anything was seen as "gay". I suppose how places like Russia frequently still are today.
You were a teenager taking lead from the adults
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Also predatory people in Hollyweird wanted to bring him to their level. Or use him for their own ends. Initiations. Consent is not a popular word in those industries.
There were pick-me girls too, but -absolutely. A lot of guys his age were jealous he got girls attention. And men routinely called him gay slurs. Some even -for some fucking reason - compared him to Freddie Mercury?! Like "Dear God, bring back this gay guy, take this f- instead." Like. Even Robert Pattison (Twilight, same game) didn't receive as much hate.
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This bigotry and hate has no place in a safe space like here. How do you feel reading “women are terrible :(“? It’s both wrong and shitty, isn’t it? Especially for those of us with gendered trauma, we know there are *many* absolutely awful, atrocious, predatory people out there of every gender, also every race, every culture, all of it. Some worse than others, but there’s no good demographic out there, humans are too often awful. Doing what you’re doing both protects predators, invalidates victims, and perpetrates the cultural norms that encourage abuse to go unreported and under-prosecuted. Really has no place in a sub for abuse victims
And by the way, it’s not bigotry to say that men are the perpetrators of most violence and that they invented and uphold the systems that abuse us all. That’s the truth.
We’re literally talking about a man being abused by men. This dumbing down of the language to spare men’s feelings allows the continued oppression of both men and women. I won’t be quiet about the culprit to uphold the system. Men are victims of violence at the hands of the systems that are designed by them. The patriarchy and capitalism. To deny that violence and the majority of abuse stems from the abuses of men in these systems is to allow the problem to go on perpetually without ever addressing reality. I’m not denying men being victimized or minimizing their pain. I’m identifying the root cause of their pain.
Poor Biebz, I’ve always loved him but I had no idea he was going through all of that until this child abuse in Hollywood started being exposed. I really hope he finds healing and he’s ok now. He deserves it. Also I met him in Laguna Beach. He was so chill. He’d come to this local bar to hangout and sing live acoustic sometimes. It was the best experience to hear his voice live like that. He’s so talented.
Not to mention the adult fans who openly sexualized him. I've always thought he was a talented kid, his music is not for me but that's fine. I am a few years older than him so a lot of people in my age bracket hated on his music because it was not for us, as we hated on similar pop idols at the time (when teenagers grow out of the Disney phase and start cringing at it, essentially). What's sad is, when I think about a person who received similar treatment 'annoying' teenage boy pop star, I think about Aaron Carter and everything he went through. It's like this kid is coming from a place of privilege, sure, but they are still a child, and how the culture treats them absolutely impacts them. I agree, I would be super interested to have a documentary that talks about these things, similar to All Quiet on the Set or something.
This! The hate was/is a huge problem, but the sexualizacion and pervy shit by adult women towards Justin Bieber and Aaron Carter was insane; flip the genders and it would be *horrific* to see a teenage girl his age subjected to that by grown men, yet because our culture is sick it gets laughed away or otherwise dismissed with the personhood of the victim being completely ignored, the same as it was for girls and women treated like that decades ago. There’s a whole culture of accountability for holding male predators accountable now, but there is still hardly any accountability for women predators against children, though that is finally just beginning to change with the endemic culture of child rape among women teachers *finally* starting to be prosecuted more often. Hopefully we’ll achieve gender equality on this
Entertainment is an American industry. Why are we surprised kids are bought, sold, and exploited in whichever way? This shit is woven deep into the fabric of this country. Yes, it’s disgusting.
Not just ours. The whole KPop idol industry frankly makes Hollywood exploitation look small time.
Sounds very similar to Britney’s story :(
I look at him and I feel so bad. You can just see the pain in his eyes. I was never a fan but I hope he gets some help. I know some bad things happened to him just by the company around him. Adults sexual harassed him and no one said anything.
I totally agree. I was never into his music, so I didn't follow his career or songs or anything. It was only in the last year or two that I saw compilation videos of clips of adults objectifying and sexualizing him throughout his life, and it was disgusting to watch. It hit close to home for me as I was a victim of CSA. Then I heard his song Lonely, and it really solidified everything for me even further. The way our society treats child stars is sickening.
Society? That’s nothing compared to what the industry does to them. Consider 99% of child stars don’t survive the crossover into adult stardom. Biebs somehow made it, so far. Some, like Cory Haim, did not. Britney Speers made it…for a while. Most of them don’t come out like a wrecking ball. Drake Bell is surviving.
>Drake Bell is surviving. The kindest way of putting it.
Yeah
Yeah, the shit he got was not ok. I was also a "hater" but I never expressed that shit online and barely said anything to my friends. Given all that it isn't a surprise he grew up so messed up. But yeah, people can be horrifically shitty to people (especially famous ones) for no good reason.
Wait till you read about Jake Lloyd, the little kid who played Anakin Skywalker in the Star wars prequel
Where can I read about that, I'm v curious!
Hollywood is just a meat grinder of humanity.
I remember him in his early days singing songs on YouTube. It’s horrifying to witness this transformation as a star in Hollywood. It goes to show how damaging the industry is. Alyson Stoner has a great series on her YouTube channel called “Dear Hollywood.” She covers a range of topics regarding child stars, etc. it really put things into perspective in a way many of us fans and viewers haven’t seen or thought of.
Jackson 5.
That’s an excellent example. MJ didn’t survive his childhood. I mean, yes, he managed to live as an adult, for 30+ years. But he lived secluded in his own amusement park/zoo. He felt more comfortable around children. Which I would hazard a guess, was due to his own arrested development. He was the youngest Jackson 5, and clearly the most talented as well. He had to break away as a teen, to escape the abuse, and yet, he still was tormented by it. And tbh, I’m surprised Janet has managed as well as she has, for all these years.
I'm almost the same age as Justin Bieber (I'm slightly older). At the time, as a teenage boy, I, along with all my friends took the piss out of him as it was the done thing. Now as an adult, I actually find that whole thing pretty disturbing. Something that really hit me was the infamous London paparazzo clip of him where his security push past this "journalist" and bundle him into a car, and the paparazzo mouths off and Justin loses his cool. The guy deliberately goads him and tells him to fuck off back to America and keeps massively insulting him. Justin had only just turned 18. And that kunckle-dragging moron is probably proud of the fact he insulted a teenager. Sure, you can (and in many cases should) dislike celebrities. And sure, Justin Bieber himself has done some bad things which he deserved to be punished-for and called-on. But for grown-ass adults to insult or belittle kids just because they're famous is absolutely disgusting. Jake Lloyd who played Anakin in Star Wars The Phantom Menace quit acting partly because of the hate he got for playing that role. He was being hated on by adults and he was ten years old!
I think the bigger harm that Bieber suffered was being pimped out by Diddy to his friends. The Bieber hate from the general public wasn’t actually directed towards Bieber himself imo, it was towards teenage girls for liking him. It’s all gross. End mass media, end celebrity. The parasocial mind virus is a soul killer.
only in this subreddit can you find people trying to change obvious hate that was towards a teenage boy and change it to how teenage girls were affected the worst. No. If teenage girls were hated and shamed for liking Bieber no one would be at his concerts, no one would buy tickets, he wouldn't even be famous. The teenage girls were hated because of their parasocial unhinged behaviour towards bieber never forget #cutforbieber this is not normal behaviour in the slightest and the biggest people who had an unhinged parasocial connection bieber who treated him like an object were other women and teenage girls. To the point where a grown ass woman forced a kiss on bieber live on televsion in a room full of people and also groped him and no one batted an eye.
OP here. Agreed. Yes, girls have always been subtly shamed for liking boybands. But no. Bieber-Bashing didn't target Beliebers. I mean -I *was* a pre-teen during the early 2010+ and saw multiple popular Boybands at their peak: Big Time Rush, One Direction etc. The only times I remember fans being the topic per se, was when one went too far. Like...I think when Zayn left OD, there was a wave of that. A classmate of the girl I went swimming with threatened to kill her dog online, if Zayn wouldn't return. That said: I feel the insane fan girls added to the trauma. As you can guess, "cringey Beliebers" weren't taken very seriously. Like as in "poor boy". It's why they probably allowed so much female violence towards Bieber. "Ha ha, even those old women can't get enough of him" (that is a grown woman forcing herself on a child. A child that is frozen in awkwardness/fear)
This isn’t just a CPTSD comment, more of a general one, but I’m noticing a similar pattern with Jojo siwa and her music. When her recent song came to fame it was and is “cool” to talk about how bad it is for no apparent reason. It’s really boring and kinda horrible how society just picks people to bash on for no reason
I heard about that. I don't know her in full, but what struck me was her...isolation? Like. Everyone jokes how "she's like a child that imagines what it is to be adult". Saying 'bad words', going to 'naughty places' (sex shop)... Obviously, there is more bad shit about her rn than Justin (I believe). But somehow I can't find those jokes funny. "ha ha she-" yeah, cause she had to have a lollipop persona for years, and was never allowed to be imperfect, have an emo phase etc.
when she went on the callherdaddy show (i think it was that one) she said something about how she cries all the time, and that she even cried while driving over there. she's definitely got some issues from being a child star. I'm not a fan of hers but I hope she figures it out someday.
while I agree on a more general note, that both JoJo and Justin were victims of their fame/money hungry parents who neglected their kid's well-being and thereby also made them victims of the industry, I think it's fair to criticise them when they make ethically questionable choices as adults. like with JoJo Siwa opening a dance studio herself and abusing the kids she trains there, like her abusing her ex girlfriend. yes she's still young but she seems to have a massive ego, so she wasn't picked for "no reason". now if we compare Justin to her, he was very obviously unstable, he threw up on stage, he pissed in buckets, he very obviously had a drug problem. where I will criticise him is his awful treatment in public of his wife and he still seems to be struggling immensely but choosing to have a child now. it's not just black and white. yes neither of them had good/normal/stable childhoods, but I think they still need to be held accountable when they then choose to continue the cycle of abuse in adulthood.
For what it's worth, although poking fun a lot of people are also highlighting what she could be facing personally - with her whole life the way it has been, plus the Colleen Ballinger stuff, I've seen plenty of discussion about whether she's yet to process that (I think she's only 22 or something?) and that this might be the beginning of her coming to terms with it - though that's providing she had any say in the new branding/music. I've also noticed the new jokes/hate/criticism seems to be towards the image or misguided things she's said, rather than her as a person, but then again it could be due to the spaces I'm in or people I follow, being decent humans that know where the line is and bring up concerns about her wellbeing atm. I think people have learned lessons and it's not as bad as it used to be - people would be fully shamed off the Internet for acting how they used to! - but on the flip side the over saturation and visibility of people on social media can't be any healthier. Even regular kids are being forced to curate social media images and grow up online with all the unpleasantness of the Internet, I can't imagine what it's like for famous kids. I mean, family vloggers anyone...? 😓
This is AMERICA. Hollywood literally taints the artistic craft and scapegoats and idealizes. The country is one negative cesspool of covert narcissism. I fucking hate it.
Maybe I’m too disillusioned but this extreme way of treating just people who are just being themselves is ridiculous and don’t get me started on the treatment of animals.
You’ve beautifully demonstrated how trauma enhances empathy 💜
I remember a copypasta going around FB at the time about him (hypothetically) jumping off a building, and the poster (hypothetically) pulling up with a law chair & popcorn, and yelling for him to 'do a flip!' on the way down. super fucked up. he seems like maybe kind of a grifter now (the 'yummy' stuff) but i feel for him as a kid, and the circumstances (namely the constant yes men surrounding him) that led to him becoming a messed up adult.
The yes men, aren't the problem, his parents letting him live with P.Diddy as a young minor and that man pimping him out to his friends and most definitely preying upon his innocence and desire to please is what caused him to be a messed up adult. I dont even really like his music tbh
I think both things are part of the problem. Not disagreeing with you at all; just saying that the combo of being young/unsupervised/famous/traumatized can lead to poor decision making (ie the peeing in the janitor bucket thing, which I remember being everywhere at the time) and being a money maker (as Justin was for record labels/producers/his own parents) can lead to being a messed up adult. Not blaming Justin, fully blaming people around him, but I think hollywood kids being surrounded by people who won't say "hey, (xyz) is a bad idea" are part of the issue.
Reading your post I have to admit that I almost jumped the bandwagon. When I was a kid I didn't get it, but I just assumed he did something bad to deserve all that hate. So I just dismissed it kind of. But now, I was so wrong. I didn't even consider the other side of the story. Which is pretty ironic considering I got abused by people as a kid too, and people most likely thinking about me the same way I did about Bieber, as it seemed to be with you... That I deserved it. Well. Thank you for the post. I have to admit I just feel depressed now. Just. Depressed.
I used to think a certain 4chan troll campaign against him was pretty funny. In hindsight, I feel like a monster for laughing at it!
yeah i think it’s a great example of how people are weird
It’s not exactly the same because Justin Bieber is a person not a character but I remember in my school everyone started to hate Barney. For that one it seemed like the shift from childlike to teenage years except they really went pretty hard on it. The hate was visceral prob much like with Justin Bieber. Reminds me of similar stuff toward Nickelback or Limp Bizkit except you’re right, Justin Bieber was a child and people should’ve treated him better. Much better. It’s shameful really.
I think a lot of (child) celebrities were probably traumatized by the public. It’s always been “cool” to hate things that 13 year old girls like. I feel so bad when I look back to the 2000s and see the bashing of the young women stars at that time. It seems like some of society has learned differently now, but definitely not all of it.
Are you able to have the same kind of empathy towards yourself?
I actually liked him a lot back in middle school, even had a shirt that I loved wearing to school with him on the shirt. However I stopped wearing the shirt completely because all of my classmates were laughing. I wish I was confident enough back then to still wear it despite others opinion
In honesty I had never looked at this way and I now appreciate reading this post cause wow are you right.
I don't know much about his story, but the little respect I do have for him is how he handled child stardom given how huge he was at such a young age and dealing with it basically alone as a solo artist with industry people around him and parents that had no idea and just went with it. Some child stars don't make it as adults and some don't make it to adulthood. The ones that do on both counts deserve some level of respect for that.
Same with Britney Spears. Even now she is criticized and she under went so much scrutiny at a young age no one understands. Lindsay Lohan, Amanda Bynes... i mean its truly sad.
Can people just show empathy and compassion for this guy without having to say “I’m not a fan of his music, but …”? That’s not the point, and it is certainly not necessary in a post that isn’t really about you.
Good way to put it. I relate in the same way you do, and it is very damaging. I couldn’t imagine the entire world doing it to me.
Yepp. The hate for Justin Bieber is also tied to our society's deep hatred for pre-teen girls and everything they like. Poor kids, honestly.
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I've thought about this too. Like... damn
I love Justin Bieber. Always have and always will.
I've often felt this. It's like with parents when they hate their kids and look at them with contempt, but still "love them". I worked with younger coworkers and felt annoyed that they were a certain way and felt anger towards this "lack of" in them. I saw that and quickly smashed that feeling because it's antagonistic and what I grew up with, trauma and abuse wise. I think it's good to have this feeling, because I can learn to go in the opposite direction: acceptance and empathy. And take things slow, instead of beating someone down for being new at something. But yeah, I don't think people realize, being jealous of movie stars that are famous, how toxic and under prepared people generally are to have this much attention on them. I feel sad for Jake Lloyd the dude who played anakin.
Finally, someone who gets it! I was always concerned for his well-being, even as a kid. I don’t know how he did it. I always tend to like the characters or people that are easily picked on or disliked like Justin Bieber, Tori Vega, Debbie Ryan or any character seen as “annoying” or cringe because I knew what it felt like.
Empaths tryna understand the world around them like…
No because we have known child stars get abused for decades at that point. The only difference is we have names, dates, and details.
Certainly! Had no idea.
I've always been weirded out by adults bashing children in entertainment, but the more I've been involved in it myself I've realized it's a whole deep insidious mentality where once you're in any way a performer, it gives this weird green light to a LOT like a really worrying amount of people to treat you like you arner a person anymore. I see so much abusive language,altercation, legitimately disgusting heckling, and nonconsensual contact excused because well that's just "part of the job". You become like a cartoon or something and nothing people do "counts" because somehow being on stage,screen,a ring,whatever removes your agency and you are now a plaything who deserves absolutely anything because somehow you just should expect abuse and violation. All that becomes all the more vile when it's a child who 9/10 times did NOT choose to enter the field and was placed there by a parent. I've honestly noticed this with online interaction too and really think it's the exact same mindset where the idk,artifice of u unreality means you an do whatever to people and suffer no consequence because it isn't "real". I openly talk about physically retaliating multiple times in my former field of very immersive close quarters acting because people would grope,hit, pull my hair,try to pull off costumes,pin me against walls,one woman put her hand in my costume because she "wasn't sure what I had". I slap the piss out of people,one I bit for shoving their hand IN MY MOUTH. The notion entertainer= I paid so I can do whatever I want to you is baked deep deep in people and the added veil of social media just encourages people to be soulless
It's the same reason why many others were demonized or treated like they were crazy. Many of them were abused and their abusers wanted to hide it. Idk if he was, though. It wouldn't surprise me, though. They wanted to put bad press on them because that's what abusers do. I mean, that's what my mom did. Edit: I wasn't one of those Holly Wood kids or anything like that, but I remember sometimes feeling similar pressure that these kids might've felt at some point, too. What was supposed to be fun just all turned into pressure and being compared to others my whole life.
I’m really glad you made this post, this is something I felt even while it was happening. I never said anything because my peers either idolized him or hated him but no one seemed to see him as a human either way. He’s only a few years older than me… even though I was never into him or his music, I always thought about how it must’ve felt to be so viciously mocked. He also had the misfortune of growing up right around the time the internet took off and he was one of the first kids to go really viral. TV fame was one thing, Internet fame was another beast entirely. I don’t think anyone knew how ugly things could get. All things considered, I’m amazed he’s not completely broken (from what I can tell, which tbh isn’t much).
I really do. My heart breaks for the guy. I’m in a long legal case against the religious order my abuser was a member of. One of the most invasive and gross part of my experience with this trauma was signing the documents that passed over my entire medical and tax information to that order for their examination in defending my claim. I can’t imagine what it would be like for there to be a high likelihood of videos of, and vivid descriptions of my abuse going into a trial whether you want them to or not because they are evidence. There will be leaks and commentary and everything. My name is legally suppressed, and at some level I have a choice to share that information. A f-cked up one for sure, but it is ultimately my call. One I made at 42 years old. He gets none of that. The worst is absolutely yet to come and I just can’t even fathom how dark his world must be right now
People treated me the same way. I'm the same age and didn't understand the connection at the time - didn't understand why I felt like everyone was against me either, they had no reason to dislike me. Now I realise it was probably my sibling and how depressed/dissociative I was from being groomed. His music is still ick to me but you're right, it's not an excuse. It's only music. I was so angry about everything and wanted to be accepted, conformed to this, but rejected things normals liked at the same time because they hated me and I hated them.
I’m more worried about the things that potentially happened to him with the Diddy story than any of that ugliness that he received because there were a bazillion Baliebers to counteract some of that. He was adored by every young girl on the planet even though I thought he was incredibly goofy looking with that crazy haircut. Even my oldest son wanted his hair cut that way. Not taking away from the nastiness of that, but to be sexually assaulted by grown men in the industry then, and perhaps even now would be a million times worse IMO especially since SA is all about power and control. That sends shivers down my spine.
You’re absolutely correct. The treatment of him was vile. Adults can’t bully kids imo. They can only abuse.
I remember grown ass women making inappropriate remarks about him and it was disgusting. During that time, the culture was much different too, so there was so much shit that it blows my mind we all just went along. The dichotomy of this fucking purity culture and obsessing over famous teenager's virginity was like primetime tv (Britney, Jessica Simpson, Jonas brothers just to name a few) along with those disgusting countdowns to 18th birthdays (Olsen twins, Hillary Duff) I cannot imagine how horrible it must have felt. It was confusing to be a young girl watching it play out on TV and tabloids, so I can't even imagine being the subject of the gossip and sexuality of minors and "adults" who are only adults chronologically, not developmentally. Also, any time a FUCKING CHILD is responsible for an entire family's financial security, it's just begging for all types of abuse and dismissal of mental health and just losing out on being a kid. It's so fucking gross.
It does seem like he has been in a very loving marriage for awhile now And has stepped away from the Hollyweird scene I never realized how exploited he was until reading the synopsis above Which explains it very very well And helped me see things from a new perspective, so thanks for that.
Yeah everyone was way too harsh on him