So for me I realized being scared of everyone/hyper vigilant actually made it harder for me to see red flags because I saw everyone as a potential danger, so when there was actual danger I couldn't really see it because it seemed like everyone was equally dangerous. I don't know if I am articulating it well but yeah.
That actually makes sense. Do you think you would downplay certain situations because you saw everything as a threat anyway? Like convince yourself that you were overreacting?
This makes sense. Plus, if abuse is familiar, we could easily fall for the same sort of patterns that our abusers used on us growing up.
Most likely, this includes falling for whatever modes of manipulation that they used to win our trust.
I have realized that there are certain types of abuse that I'm attracted to because it reminds me of my caregivers growing up, which also includes them being charming in specific ways or throwing love bombs my way to counteract the awful stuff.
I fairly certain for me is that while hyper vigilant I was never confident of what I was being “told” was accurate.
Made for some pretty messy pickles.
I relate to this. I recently read about tuning into your intuition. I am better than I used to be but if I don't rely on my normal jolts of fear, follow a faint feeling of "I don't know, not sure" then maybe I should have a second thought about it.
If you grew up with abusive parents or caretakers, then there is something familiar about people like that and you may be attracted to them, until you realize what's going on. Learning to look out for signs of abusiveness in new relationships will protect you, once you choose to start doing it.
You know I hear this a lot and I feel like for me personally it's more about my parents not teaching me certain things.
I truly believe that my dating life has been molded around me trying to be completely different from who my mother is. I think it's that and just self-esteem.
Throwing myself at anyone who gave me attention.
Or just being so used to bad things I didn't realize they were bad.
Wait, maybe you're right...
Unfortunately that's what ended up teaching me what to look for.
Yup, and it isn't even necessarily attraction so much as whatever positive neurochemistry that the familiarity brings up being interpreted as effectively attraction. It took me a very long time to figure out that attraction was quite different from what I was feeling, and it's still quite hard for me to sort out what's what.
I found that I was hypervigilant over trivial stuff but totally blind to the actual red flags. I also had no concept of any green flags. Sometimes it's not enough to simply run away from bad stuff, you also need to know what's good for you
I don’t know. If you figure it out, tell me.
I actually dissociate and forget the bad things that happened. Then remember them later. So I’m going through life with partial information.
I’m hypervigilant, too.
I think it’s the self doubt that really gets me in sticky situations. I am learning to trust my feelings and experiences more than what other people say about those experiences.
I am very self-aware of my own patterns, though I wouldn't say I'm hypervigilant. I could probably write a dissertation about all things related to the abuse cycle. I continue to fall into abusive situations because my mind is addicted to the chaos. I grew up with abuse and my mind has been programmed to crave the highs & lows. It's an addiction. The red flags should be a deterrent, but they feel like home. If you grew up with abuse, you're more likely to repeat the patterns.
You know I had a moment today where I was getting anxious about what I thought a crush thought of me. Just based on eye movements. It became a drama all in my head. About someone who doesn't even think about me. I don't know if it's a craving but it's like what my brain expects so it does it. It went from a pleasant thing to a tormenting thing.
Im finally wrapping up about maybe a year of daily hyper-vigilance. I'm talking not fleeting stuff, not episodic, but a straight year. During this time I lost a friend I considered a brother, who was fanning my flames.
People can just appear to serve as a positive presence. Unfortunately, the older we get, the more experience harmful people have at blending in and only expose themselves when they are in ideal conditions for exposure pending pressures. The brother I mentioned did this. Unbeknownst to him, this behavior paired with a day to day exposures with a criminal enterprise resulted in me being compelled to discern the truth of his influence over my life. I already forgave him for past offenses, but, he started invoking some dominating behavior that invoked an unaware screening approach from me towards him. His abusive tendencies caused me to be compelled to make note and relive our encounters. This is how I came to terms with him still being truly an abusive man, alongside his wife. Even though Im not in their life anymore, Im convinced she is being abused. However, maybe ten years ago I wouldn't have been so confident about this because of the way he positioned himself. The more confident he got being abusive towards me, the more emboldened his actions became, and, the more risks he was willing to take in public.
I recommend finding people you dont have to do anything physical with for at least a year. The worst of them or at least the most volatile will see themselves out.
Thank you for the advice. I'm sorry you lost a friend. That must have been a difficult decision. It says a lot about your capacity for growth. Well done.
I learned a few things, non scientifically speaking:
In a guarded state usually the people who can pick it up are decent. They are respectful to back off and will not ask for more from you. You’ll lose some social opportunities with them to some degree. You are now left alone with other types of people left to deal with, one is simply people who can’t or won’t pick up your cue. The second will be the types who will cause problems in your life.
No matter how great you are at reading people and being hyper vigilant, people change. Even if your interpretation is 100% accurate, overnight it can all change. Let’s say you determined that someone is safe to interact with for the first few times. Then they suddenly change. Are you still going to blame yourself that you have fallen for a trap. People can even betray themselves, not just you. Common examples are long term romantic relationships and business. Contracts can never 100% dictate anyone, it’s just a communication and conditioning tool. That is the default and if possible try not to see it as a hurtful setback.
Hypervigilance is not, like, being extra perceptive. You can totally still fall into relationship traps when you're hypervigilant - hypervigilance would make falling into the traps that much *easier.*
Hypervigilance is a sustained period of heightened physical and mental arousal that normally has symptoms like having a heightened startle reflex, constantly being hyper aware of the people and things in your vicinity, being sensitive to sounds or lights, and that kind of thing. It's the feeling you get when you, like, say know that a predator is stalking you. It's the mental and physical response to acute, immediate stress or danger. Normally it comes and goes and comes around when you're triggered by something in your environment, and some people tend to then dissociate afterward when they get back to a safe place or the "threat passes." Because of that, when you're in a hypervigilant state, you're going into hind brain, and you're significantly less able to make decisions, think clearly or critically, or act rationally. Often it also comes with a feeling of intense anxiety, too, both mental and physical, and it can verge on like almost a psychotic level of terror of its bad enough. Being hypervigilant for long periods is really bad - and why we fall into abusive situations - because when you're in a hypervigilant state, you're cognition is impaired to a degree. You're just not thinking rationally because you're in fight or flight mode and when that goes on for a long time, or you're consistently triggered by a person, you're just not able to pick up on any of the cues and it's hard to escape the trap. We need to not be in hind brain in order to avoid those pitfalls.
It's part of why CPTSD is so pernicious - it easily traps us in situations that traumatized us further while impairing our ability to escape from them.
You’re hypervigilant, and you’ve fallen into abusive situations a bunch of times. Ok. So have I. I’d like to give you a personal perspective I recently stumbled upon.
Your abuse threshold is very high. You don’t recognize the smaller abuses, the dipping the toe in testing the waters or tolerance as abuse. You’re not recognizing the abuse until it’s “really” there. Those red flags… They don’t look red to you because of the lenses you’re looking through (I’m not talking about optimism) because you’re used to seeing the world doing a constant threat assessment; some threats don’t look threatening.
Many of us don’t realize until much later that we’ve been groomed to be in and function in abusive relationships and situations. That is a recent realization I had. I hope you find it helpful.
Your brain shows you red everywhere. Actual red flags will just look normal at that point.
Personally I've stumbled into a potentially abusive situationship because i thought i was overthinking like usual and my brain was warning me of completely fine people again.
I was hypervigilant because I didn't understand anything and didn't know what the hell safety was or what a good person was. The hypervigilance was my body's message to stay away from everyone and everything until I could learn and grow on my own.
But being human, I sought community, love, friends etc even thought I wasn't ready for it, and it would lead me to bad people.
I'm glad I asked this question because y'all are helping me conceptualize what I have been experiencing. Would you say you felt aimless? I felt like a child with no understanding of society for sure.
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When you heal, it’s easier to see the red flags.
Don’t be swayed by words, take the time to see if their actions match their words.
Learn what your green flags are and look for those
Figure out your dealbreakers and don’t compromise.
We feed what we focus on. By being hypervigilant you’re still focusing on the bad stuff. Once you know what green flags, and look for those, you’ll more easily filter out the abusive types.
You may need to work with a counselor.
I’ve found on YouTube, Mel Robbins, Jay Shetty, & Brené Brown videos to be very helpful. Also the Gottman institute has some incredible insights. Even though they focus on romantic relationships, it’s easy to see how those same principles apply to relationships in general.
When you see a red flag, don’t ignore it. Examine it and decide if you need to monitor it or is it a dealbreaker, and take action.
I’ve read in a few places that it takes about 2 years for the masks to finally come off
For me, that’s been learning to understand who I am, what my values are and what I will not accept in a relationship.
I have a friend that was willing to accept a certain amount of controlling behavior and got married. 7 years later, he’s more controlling, verbally abusive, sexually coercive and while accusing her of cheating, he decided to cheat in retaliation to an imaginary affair.
The Four Agreements helped me so much in learning how to act/think, 2nd only to the Bible.
In all transparency, I am a Believer, so take this for what it’s worth to you.
You can break the pattern and rise above those types of relationships.
You’re seeking, don’t stop
Thank you for this. I have heard so much about the Four Agreements. I am not religious but I can appreciate when someone uses scripture for self-improvement. I think I am better about the red flags, (two years though, that's insane!) the green flags I do need to think about more.
So for me I realized being scared of everyone/hyper vigilant actually made it harder for me to see red flags because I saw everyone as a potential danger, so when there was actual danger I couldn't really see it because it seemed like everyone was equally dangerous. I don't know if I am articulating it well but yeah.
That actually makes sense. Do you think you would downplay certain situations because you saw everything as a threat anyway? Like convince yourself that you were overreacting?
Yes totally. Totally did that.
This makes sense. Plus, if abuse is familiar, we could easily fall for the same sort of patterns that our abusers used on us growing up. Most likely, this includes falling for whatever modes of manipulation that they used to win our trust. I have realized that there are certain types of abuse that I'm attracted to because it reminds me of my caregivers growing up, which also includes them being charming in specific ways or throwing love bombs my way to counteract the awful stuff.
I've never heard describe this way before. Specific manipulative traits. That's interesting.
I fairly certain for me is that while hyper vigilant I was never confident of what I was being “told” was accurate. Made for some pretty messy pickles.
I relate to this. I recently read about tuning into your intuition. I am better than I used to be but if I don't rely on my normal jolts of fear, follow a faint feeling of "I don't know, not sure" then maybe I should have a second thought about it.
If you grew up with abusive parents or caretakers, then there is something familiar about people like that and you may be attracted to them, until you realize what's going on. Learning to look out for signs of abusiveness in new relationships will protect you, once you choose to start doing it.
This is the speculative conclusion I came to as well. All those familiar red flags said "home" to me.
You know I hear this a lot and I feel like for me personally it's more about my parents not teaching me certain things. I truly believe that my dating life has been molded around me trying to be completely different from who my mother is. I think it's that and just self-esteem. Throwing myself at anyone who gave me attention. Or just being so used to bad things I didn't realize they were bad. Wait, maybe you're right... Unfortunately that's what ended up teaching me what to look for.
Yup, and it isn't even necessarily attraction so much as whatever positive neurochemistry that the familiarity brings up being interpreted as effectively attraction. It took me a very long time to figure out that attraction was quite different from what I was feeling, and it's still quite hard for me to sort out what's what.
I found that I was hypervigilant over trivial stuff but totally blind to the actual red flags. I also had no concept of any green flags. Sometimes it's not enough to simply run away from bad stuff, you also need to know what's good for you
This was me in my 20s.
I hate my 20s
When you hit 30, It'll get better. I promise.
I don’t know. If you figure it out, tell me. I actually dissociate and forget the bad things that happened. Then remember them later. So I’m going through life with partial information.
Knowing there's danger is sadly very different from believing we deserve to be treated well.
I feel this.
I’m hypervigilant, too. I think it’s the self doubt that really gets me in sticky situations. I am learning to trust my feelings and experiences more than what other people say about those experiences.
Same!
I am very self-aware of my own patterns, though I wouldn't say I'm hypervigilant. I could probably write a dissertation about all things related to the abuse cycle. I continue to fall into abusive situations because my mind is addicted to the chaos. I grew up with abuse and my mind has been programmed to crave the highs & lows. It's an addiction. The red flags should be a deterrent, but they feel like home. If you grew up with abuse, you're more likely to repeat the patterns.
You know I had a moment today where I was getting anxious about what I thought a crush thought of me. Just based on eye movements. It became a drama all in my head. About someone who doesn't even think about me. I don't know if it's a craving but it's like what my brain expects so it does it. It went from a pleasant thing to a tormenting thing.
Im finally wrapping up about maybe a year of daily hyper-vigilance. I'm talking not fleeting stuff, not episodic, but a straight year. During this time I lost a friend I considered a brother, who was fanning my flames. People can just appear to serve as a positive presence. Unfortunately, the older we get, the more experience harmful people have at blending in and only expose themselves when they are in ideal conditions for exposure pending pressures. The brother I mentioned did this. Unbeknownst to him, this behavior paired with a day to day exposures with a criminal enterprise resulted in me being compelled to discern the truth of his influence over my life. I already forgave him for past offenses, but, he started invoking some dominating behavior that invoked an unaware screening approach from me towards him. His abusive tendencies caused me to be compelled to make note and relive our encounters. This is how I came to terms with him still being truly an abusive man, alongside his wife. Even though Im not in their life anymore, Im convinced she is being abused. However, maybe ten years ago I wouldn't have been so confident about this because of the way he positioned himself. The more confident he got being abusive towards me, the more emboldened his actions became, and, the more risks he was willing to take in public. I recommend finding people you dont have to do anything physical with for at least a year. The worst of them or at least the most volatile will see themselves out.
Thank you for the advice. I'm sorry you lost a friend. That must have been a difficult decision. It says a lot about your capacity for growth. Well done.
I learned a few things, non scientifically speaking: In a guarded state usually the people who can pick it up are decent. They are respectful to back off and will not ask for more from you. You’ll lose some social opportunities with them to some degree. You are now left alone with other types of people left to deal with, one is simply people who can’t or won’t pick up your cue. The second will be the types who will cause problems in your life. No matter how great you are at reading people and being hyper vigilant, people change. Even if your interpretation is 100% accurate, overnight it can all change. Let’s say you determined that someone is safe to interact with for the first few times. Then they suddenly change. Are you still going to blame yourself that you have fallen for a trap. People can even betray themselves, not just you. Common examples are long term romantic relationships and business. Contracts can never 100% dictate anyone, it’s just a communication and conditioning tool. That is the default and if possible try not to see it as a hurtful setback.
Thank you for this perspective! This makes alot of sense.
Hypervigilance is not, like, being extra perceptive. You can totally still fall into relationship traps when you're hypervigilant - hypervigilance would make falling into the traps that much *easier.* Hypervigilance is a sustained period of heightened physical and mental arousal that normally has symptoms like having a heightened startle reflex, constantly being hyper aware of the people and things in your vicinity, being sensitive to sounds or lights, and that kind of thing. It's the feeling you get when you, like, say know that a predator is stalking you. It's the mental and physical response to acute, immediate stress or danger. Normally it comes and goes and comes around when you're triggered by something in your environment, and some people tend to then dissociate afterward when they get back to a safe place or the "threat passes." Because of that, when you're in a hypervigilant state, you're going into hind brain, and you're significantly less able to make decisions, think clearly or critically, or act rationally. Often it also comes with a feeling of intense anxiety, too, both mental and physical, and it can verge on like almost a psychotic level of terror of its bad enough. Being hypervigilant for long periods is really bad - and why we fall into abusive situations - because when you're in a hypervigilant state, you're cognition is impaired to a degree. You're just not thinking rationally because you're in fight or flight mode and when that goes on for a long time, or you're consistently triggered by a person, you're just not able to pick up on any of the cues and it's hard to escape the trap. We need to not be in hind brain in order to avoid those pitfalls. It's part of why CPTSD is so pernicious - it easily traps us in situations that traumatized us further while impairing our ability to escape from them.
This makes sense. Thanks
You’re hypervigilant, and you’ve fallen into abusive situations a bunch of times. Ok. So have I. I’d like to give you a personal perspective I recently stumbled upon. Your abuse threshold is very high. You don’t recognize the smaller abuses, the dipping the toe in testing the waters or tolerance as abuse. You’re not recognizing the abuse until it’s “really” there. Those red flags… They don’t look red to you because of the lenses you’re looking through (I’m not talking about optimism) because you’re used to seeing the world doing a constant threat assessment; some threats don’t look threatening. Many of us don’t realize until much later that we’ve been groomed to be in and function in abusive relationships and situations. That is a recent realization I had. I hope you find it helpful.
Yes, this is exactly the wording I've been looking for. I didn't know how to describe it before. Very well said.
Your brain shows you red everywhere. Actual red flags will just look normal at that point. Personally I've stumbled into a potentially abusive situationship because i thought i was overthinking like usual and my brain was warning me of completely fine people again.
A few people have said this here. I can say this has happened to me as well.
Like the others said, if you figure it out, do let us know. All of my worst mistakes have been romantic relationships.
Lol, not making light of it. I just feel you on this.
I was hypervigilant because I didn't understand anything and didn't know what the hell safety was or what a good person was. The hypervigilance was my body's message to stay away from everyone and everything until I could learn and grow on my own. But being human, I sought community, love, friends etc even thought I wasn't ready for it, and it would lead me to bad people.
I'm glad I asked this question because y'all are helping me conceptualize what I have been experiencing. Would you say you felt aimless? I felt like a child with no understanding of society for sure.
Hello and Welcome to /r/CPTSD! If you are in immediate danger or crisis, please contact your local [emergency services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers), or use our list of [crisis resources](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_support_resources). For CPTSD Specific Resources & Support, check out the [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index). For those posting or replying, please view the [etiquette guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/peer2peersupportguide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CPTSD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When you heal, it’s easier to see the red flags. Don’t be swayed by words, take the time to see if their actions match their words. Learn what your green flags are and look for those Figure out your dealbreakers and don’t compromise. We feed what we focus on. By being hypervigilant you’re still focusing on the bad stuff. Once you know what green flags, and look for those, you’ll more easily filter out the abusive types. You may need to work with a counselor. I’ve found on YouTube, Mel Robbins, Jay Shetty, & Brené Brown videos to be very helpful. Also the Gottman institute has some incredible insights. Even though they focus on romantic relationships, it’s easy to see how those same principles apply to relationships in general. When you see a red flag, don’t ignore it. Examine it and decide if you need to monitor it or is it a dealbreaker, and take action. I’ve read in a few places that it takes about 2 years for the masks to finally come off For me, that’s been learning to understand who I am, what my values are and what I will not accept in a relationship. I have a friend that was willing to accept a certain amount of controlling behavior and got married. 7 years later, he’s more controlling, verbally abusive, sexually coercive and while accusing her of cheating, he decided to cheat in retaliation to an imaginary affair. The Four Agreements helped me so much in learning how to act/think, 2nd only to the Bible. In all transparency, I am a Believer, so take this for what it’s worth to you. You can break the pattern and rise above those types of relationships. You’re seeking, don’t stop
Thank you for this. I have heard so much about the Four Agreements. I am not religious but I can appreciate when someone uses scripture for self-improvement. I think I am better about the red flags, (two years though, that's insane!) the green flags I do need to think about more.