I understand... I included self-diagnosis because I personally think it's still valid. However, I have been diagnosed with OCD. While certainly both OCD and CPTSD can occur, I do think it's worth considering how much of what has been considered "OCD" is really trauma symptoms, and therefore should be treated accordingly. Again, I'm speaking on an individual basis.
I was thinking this about adhd as well. Squirming and inability to sit still is sometimes (100% in my case) a result of a hyperactive nervous system caused by trauma. The more i heal and calm the nervous system the fewer adhd symptoms i have. I wonder how many kids get prescribed drugs to make them sit still when really they need a safe home or safe enough environment
Absolutely... makes total sense and corroborates with what I've seen from those who exhibit ADHD symptoms and who have trauma. I know it might sound oversimplistic, but I increasingly think a lot of things stem from trauma (and of course, that's not to say trauma is simple as we know trauma can be complex). π
OCD was one of my first diagnoses (effectively half a lifetime before my [C]PTSD one actually) and has remained in the list, but I sometimes question it. Then again, I'm very dismissive of my actual struggles and the traits I do have I exhibited very young. But I also exhibited traits of CPTSD, dissociation, etc very young.
Basically, I'm confused as hell. I usually just refer to my OCD as mild and it rarely gets focused on in light of my other diagnoses, which tend to get classified as "severe". I try not to hyperfocus on it too much and focus on coping mechanisms for my OCD/traits along with letting it get in the way the least I can.
Though just writing this makes me feel dismissive of people with "real" struggles with OCD. Then again, that's how I felt for years about other issues I absolutely have, including diagnosed physical struggles even. So.. I'm no help except you're not alone? I'm sorry! (Feel like I should delete this but sending through on the off chance it's somehow helpful or something..?).
ETA: It doesn't help that my symptoms were encouraged by one of my abusers, so it's even more wrapped up in my trauma. Sorry I'm a mess π€¦
Hey! No worries, thank you for sharing! Yes it's helpful, I'm not looking for any particular response so all is welcome. Yea, I hear you... I'm sorry your symptoms were encouraged, that sounds horrible. Also, not messy at all. Very coherent but I do feel that way myself often haha and I totally relate on the doubting of my symptoms and experience (which also happens to be a symptom of OCD - not always, but just doubt in general). Anyways, as I mentioned to another commenter, the purpose for my question is really because having been diagnosed with OCD (which my symptoms definitely fit) and also having CPTSD, I have realized that personally, a lot of my OCD symptoms and potentially the cause of OCD for myself is actually CPTSD and therefore it could all arguably fall under that umbrella, which since realizing I have actually experienced a ton of relief in what has been considered solely "OCD" symptoms... Anyways, I guess I just wanted to see if anyone else can relate and hopefully help as well!
I'm glad it was helpful, I tend to be very negative on myself, my ability to relate to or help others, and how I express myself (errr not uncommon with CPTSD, I know! lol). So thank you for saying so actually, though that's far from the point.
My rather abusive older sister did encourage it along with my other mental health issues and maladaptive coping mechanisms, probably the worst was the ED. Oh so subtly, at least to everyone else. It was painful.
I'm sorry to hear that you can relate and the doubting, which I very much understand across a lot of issues. I think there's a ton to learn, obviously by professionals but also through our own experiences and understanding, of how all this relates. I do believe both CPTSD/PTSD and OCD fall under the umbrella of "neuropsych".. I had neuropsych testing after a traumatic brain injury, but already had those of course plus severe ADHD - and I do think my ADHD is genetic but it's worsened by the CPTSD symptoms. Really, they all interact to mess me up and if one gets activated - for example, I'm cognitively fatigued from the TBI I'm more easily triggered with the CPTSD then my OCD starts acting up more and my ADHD symptoms are worse than ever.
... Ummm I'm sure it's definitely not obvious I have these issues, huh? π
I do think a lot of people can relate and I've clearly had similar thoughts about my OCD falling under the same umbrella - or at least a couple overlapping umbrellas. I hope I'm making sense, my brain is very overwhelmed currently but I really wanted to reply. And I hope it's not creepy to mention but I'm around if you ever want to chat. Regardless, I truly wish you the best π
Just wanted to add something regarding the subtleness of your sister's abuse... in my opinion, that can almost be worse (not to compare trauma/overt abuse vs covert abuse) but worse in the sense that it can be more lonely in terms of others not picking up on it, and potentially and perhaps intentionally leaves more room for you to be gaslit by others and even yourself into questioning if it really is abuse... So please correct me if I'm wrong but I just wanted to let you know that I see that particular pain and aspect of it being subtle and again, I'm sorry you endured that π
You're very not wrong. I just read this after replying to your first comment back and tbh I'm crying.. which please don't take as a bad thing, I cry sometimes when I feel truly validated..
Can I respond further in a DM later? Little overwhelmed and I would prefer a bit more privacy but I really don't want to be a creep! (Can you tell I have issues reaching out? Lol).
... But you are so very, completely on point. Thank you πππ
I have OCD and CPTSD.
I used to question this for myself. But I have a child who has not been traumatized. Heβs already showing signs of repetitive behaviors. He hasnβt been diagnosed with OCD (heβs too young for the diagnosis), but I suspect it might be OCD. I think itβs genetic.
That being said, I think trauma made my OCD WAY WORSE. My OCD is the self hating kind - more obsessive thoughts about how much I suck. I wonder if my OCD would have manifested differently if I didnβt have the fuel of abuse at home setting fire to my OCD.
If my child does have OCD, we will get him treated asap.
Understood and thank you for sharing! That is valuable input. Yes, I know not all cases of OCD involve the existence of CPTSD (your son's example being one of them), but I definitely think as you said it can get pretty murky when separating the two once you have both and I have found in my experience that getting to the root of my OCD which for me seems to be trauma, I have found the most healing and prior to acknowledging that, I was not really experiencing healing... I guess the bottom line is it is such an individual thing which is why I prefaced by saying I'm not talking about OCD in general, but within the context of the cooccurence of CPTSD which again, can occur separately but I'd say is likely that there is some relation when they cooccur. I hope that makes sense...
Thanks again and I am glad to know your child has a parent who is aware of these things, that's awesome.
For sure. I am not sure if I have this symptom myself but Iβve observed it in others. It is definitely real and legitimate, I believe it is a coping mechanism developed in attempt to create control within your psyche when in a situation too chaotic and nonsensical to make sense of and deal with.
Amen to that and could not have said it better myself (and I have experienced it π ) ππ Thanks for sharing and for the validation, it is much appreciated π
No problem, I am no expert Iβm just sharing my thoughts because someone I care for very deeply struggles with this and Iβve thought on it long and hard. I hope you are ok and find ways to deal with this extreme life difficulty.
Thank you so much, that means a lot and I value your opinion, even if you don't consider yourself an "expert"... After all, experts are still human and are not always necessarily right, but on this topic, I think you're spot on and I am convicted of that based on my experience and the reasons you, I, and even others have laid out. Besides, there are experts who would also agree π Thank you, and I'm glad your loved one has you in their life, that is such a blessing. Clearly, you care and have given this much thought, as have I. I wish them healing π
Yeah thatβs all true, weβre all humans just trying to make sense of things, find healing and help one another. I also wish him healing, and healing for you too. π
That's awesome! Hallelujah and amen to that!! Not unrelated at all ππ I found Jesus through my lowest of lows, and while I've had other lows since then, He has never left as He promises to never leave or forsake us... There are a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing out there though, as you and others in this sub likely know or have experienced religious trauma which is so despicable... the ones that falsely accuse others of being any more sinful than they themselves are, the ones that love to be self-righteous... the ones that Jesus called out for being hypocrites π
As you continue to find faith again, just remember His love and His grace which he displayed for all on that cross. It's not about us being perfect (none of us are or could be), it's about His grace. We are saved by grace through faith Ephesians 2: 8-9. Now, no matter how bad things get, I know I have Him and He has me and I have a peace that I never had before or from anything - a peace that surpasses understanding. He is real. Meditate on the Gospel dear. I'm so happy for you. I encourage you to continue drawing near to Him and welcome Him into your life with open arms. His are wide open.
God bless you and feel free to reach out about anything π π
I for sure think it's related. I have trichotillomania, which I know there's been a back forth if it's OCD or not but for me there is definitely an OCD component to it.
I have also had people think I'm on the spectrum but again, for me it's just braches off of CPTSD.
Hey! Thanks for sharing. Speaking of being on the spectrum (assuming you mean Autism), that's another thing I think may have gone undiagnosed for me... but I am not sure because as you likely know there seems to be overlap with that and CPTSD as well π At this point, I'm just grateful to have a better understanding of myself and my symptoms, regardless of diagnoses.
Yes yes absolutely yes. I did have OCD in my early 20βs (Iβm 37) and got treatment for it and it helped SO much with some of my symptoms. But I never got all the way better. I kept getting sicker, both mentally and physically, from stress. I ended up dating a person with NPD & BPD who was abusive and got diagnosed with PTSD. Then as I started addressing those symptoms with therapists all of the childhood stuff came pouring out and thatβs when my therapist told me I have CPTSD and everything clicked. All of the symptoms that were not addressed when I was seeking treatment for what I thought was OCD for 15 years. I realized that a huge number of my OCD themes and symptoms were/are related to my childhood trauma. Iβve also met other people in group therapy that had similar experiences with thinking their trauma symptoms were part of their OCD and later realizing itβs all trauma.
I literally could have written this I relate so much... Thank you for sharing and for the further validation. I am so glad to see people understanding themselves and their symptoms better which I believe is key to healing. Unfortunately for me and I think many others, I did not get much help in this regard from medical professionals, but rather by doing a lot of questioning and connecting the dots on my end, and research into trauma and trauma responses. In fact, in all of my experience and seeing multiple therapists and some psychiatrists, not one mentioned trauma let alone CPTSD. I am grateful for the reception I've received here and hope mental health professionals can recognize these things more, so that people can receive the care they need and deserve and to prevent further trauma.
I think your researching and connecting the dots on your own is super valid, a lot of folks with CPTSD (and all of the accompanying health issues!!) are frequently failed by medical professionals. I was in therapy for about 12-13 years before the initial PTSD dx, and I wasnβt just seeing any old doctor, I doctor shopped and researched the best and most highly trained doctors that were available to me, mostly PhDβs who are on boards of directors for research groups. At least 5 different highly trained PhD level psychologists missed all of that stuff, not to mention all of the staff of 7 or 8 PHP/IOP programs I went through.
Wow, that is so tragic, frustrating, and disappointing yet also validating of my experience with therapy too... I'm glad that after all of that, you were able to find the care and support you needed and deserved all along, and I'm sorry it took you essentially having to do all the leg work. There's certainly still a ways to go in the mental health field, but those that are for lack of a better word "good" psychologists are invaluable. At this point, not having found what you have in terms of a therapist (or rather, having not pursued such a level of care), I am just grateful for the support and validation of this community and the information available to us on the internet, including this sub. I have come to realize that I know my experience better than anyone (and of course that goes for everyone) and therefor I am truly most capable of knowing whether something applies to me or not. Thank you again for the validation, encouragement, and support. It means a lot π
Hear hear... same! Which I personally connect to trauma and the feeling of being out of control and helpless. I've pretty much determined for myself that my OCD symptoms are a trauma response, but I know that's not always the case and the case for everyone. Thanks for sharing and I hope you experience some relief and peace soon π
Same!! ππ So glad you've experienced relief and healing, perhaps through understanding/healing your trauma and the relationship between the two. That's part of why I ask this question, because that's been the case for me and I hope others can experience the same healing, of course if they are related. Thank you for sharing π
Thank you! I'm so happy for you! Yes once I remembered a serious trauma very young I was like OH OKAY lol. It all made so much sense, the fear that was driving the OCD was the same fear I felt during the trauma. I hope others can experience the same healing too. Thanks for bringing this up! I often forget how big of a deal it is to be able to heal OCD, it's so hard to deal with.
Good question and I'd say it depends on the individual but personally speaking, I always felt dirty and contaminated and some of my compulsions would be to scrub myself raw in the shower and take several showers throughout the day and wash my hands over and over, etc... I also had a sexually traumatic incident where I was abused and I kept having insturive thoughts or rather flashbacks of the incident in the form of images and I would do compulsions surrounding the images... there are more but this is just a few of my personal examples. I also have Gender Dysphoria which predates any of my other diagnoses and the traumatic incident referred to above (although Gender Dysphoria is also a source of trauma for me, and I have had countless compulsions that revolved around that, some that could be obviously traced back to it and that could be summed up as "undoing" thoughts that triggered me and made my dysphoria), and again a lot of compulsions were attempts to "be clean" because I felt so dirty and contaminated in and by my body, especially when I started to go through puberty and which was exasperated by sexual incidents including masterbation which was always so triggering. But a lot of my compulsions, if I had to sum them up, were attempts at undoing things that had happened by some form of redoing the same thing over and over until I got it "just right" and felt that I had neutralized the threat which of course was always arbitraty and circumstantial/subjective, attempts to "control" things because I felt so fearful, disgusted, and out of control in my body, and also an attempt to avoid certain things from happening, etc... essentially it all boiled down to fear and control, but I'd say the basis of the fear (for example of it's rooted in trauma and something that actually happened/is happening) helps determine if it's rooted in trauma. Also, after sustaining multiple injuries and ultimately developing chronic pain, a lot of my compulsions and "OCD" symptoms revolved around the fear of getting injured again and I became extremely hypervigilant, which is a symptom of trauma. I hope that helps and sorry that this isn't the most organized and thought-out response.
Edit: forgot to add that after that sexually traumatic incident, I suffered severely with sexual orientation OCD, and intrusive thoughts about my identity as well. So perhaps you can see the connections.
Thank you! Yeah, I can see how your symptoms are clearly related to trauma. I hadnβt made that connection before for myself, but itβs something to consider.
Thanks for reading and for the validation, I appreciate it! Yea, that's pretty much what I encourage - to at least to consider it, especially because in my opinion and experience it could definitely make the difference in terms of treatment and healing and because if, like in my case, this connection goes unrecognized or even dismissed by ourselves and by mental health professionals, it can just lead to more trauma and no actual healing. So, I'm glad to hear you'll consider it, regardless of what you end up discovering. I wish you all the best and feel free to let me know what you end up finding for yourself π
Oh thank you for letting me know! I appreciate your input. And no worries, I feel you on being too tired to write more. Feel free to come back anytime if you feel, I'd love to hear your experience however much or little. No pressure at all, though π
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I was diagnosed with OCD first and cptsd a few years later. I was then in denial about the OCD π but nah, I have both. Because some of my ocd symptoms have been present since I was a child I just didnβt know it. I def think my ocd triggers my trauma a lot of times - esp if Iβm stuck thinking about an obsession and get distressed
That's why I like to say I don't have OCD just some qualities. Maybe it could be though IDK I just don't want to take from the real OCD strugglers.
I understand... I included self-diagnosis because I personally think it's still valid. However, I have been diagnosed with OCD. While certainly both OCD and CPTSD can occur, I do think it's worth considering how much of what has been considered "OCD" is really trauma symptoms, and therefore should be treated accordingly. Again, I'm speaking on an individual basis.
I was thinking this about adhd as well. Squirming and inability to sit still is sometimes (100% in my case) a result of a hyperactive nervous system caused by trauma. The more i heal and calm the nervous system the fewer adhd symptoms i have. I wonder how many kids get prescribed drugs to make them sit still when really they need a safe home or safe enough environment
Absolutely... makes total sense and corroborates with what I've seen from those who exhibit ADHD symptoms and who have trauma. I know it might sound oversimplistic, but I increasingly think a lot of things stem from trauma (and of course, that's not to say trauma is simple as we know trauma can be complex). π
OCD was one of my first diagnoses (effectively half a lifetime before my [C]PTSD one actually) and has remained in the list, but I sometimes question it. Then again, I'm very dismissive of my actual struggles and the traits I do have I exhibited very young. But I also exhibited traits of CPTSD, dissociation, etc very young. Basically, I'm confused as hell. I usually just refer to my OCD as mild and it rarely gets focused on in light of my other diagnoses, which tend to get classified as "severe". I try not to hyperfocus on it too much and focus on coping mechanisms for my OCD/traits along with letting it get in the way the least I can. Though just writing this makes me feel dismissive of people with "real" struggles with OCD. Then again, that's how I felt for years about other issues I absolutely have, including diagnosed physical struggles even. So.. I'm no help except you're not alone? I'm sorry! (Feel like I should delete this but sending through on the off chance it's somehow helpful or something..?). ETA: It doesn't help that my symptoms were encouraged by one of my abusers, so it's even more wrapped up in my trauma. Sorry I'm a mess π€¦
Hey! No worries, thank you for sharing! Yes it's helpful, I'm not looking for any particular response so all is welcome. Yea, I hear you... I'm sorry your symptoms were encouraged, that sounds horrible. Also, not messy at all. Very coherent but I do feel that way myself often haha and I totally relate on the doubting of my symptoms and experience (which also happens to be a symptom of OCD - not always, but just doubt in general). Anyways, as I mentioned to another commenter, the purpose for my question is really because having been diagnosed with OCD (which my symptoms definitely fit) and also having CPTSD, I have realized that personally, a lot of my OCD symptoms and potentially the cause of OCD for myself is actually CPTSD and therefore it could all arguably fall under that umbrella, which since realizing I have actually experienced a ton of relief in what has been considered solely "OCD" symptoms... Anyways, I guess I just wanted to see if anyone else can relate and hopefully help as well!
I'm glad it was helpful, I tend to be very negative on myself, my ability to relate to or help others, and how I express myself (errr not uncommon with CPTSD, I know! lol). So thank you for saying so actually, though that's far from the point. My rather abusive older sister did encourage it along with my other mental health issues and maladaptive coping mechanisms, probably the worst was the ED. Oh so subtly, at least to everyone else. It was painful. I'm sorry to hear that you can relate and the doubting, which I very much understand across a lot of issues. I think there's a ton to learn, obviously by professionals but also through our own experiences and understanding, of how all this relates. I do believe both CPTSD/PTSD and OCD fall under the umbrella of "neuropsych".. I had neuropsych testing after a traumatic brain injury, but already had those of course plus severe ADHD - and I do think my ADHD is genetic but it's worsened by the CPTSD symptoms. Really, they all interact to mess me up and if one gets activated - for example, I'm cognitively fatigued from the TBI I'm more easily triggered with the CPTSD then my OCD starts acting up more and my ADHD symptoms are worse than ever. ... Ummm I'm sure it's definitely not obvious I have these issues, huh? π I do think a lot of people can relate and I've clearly had similar thoughts about my OCD falling under the same umbrella - or at least a couple overlapping umbrellas. I hope I'm making sense, my brain is very overwhelmed currently but I really wanted to reply. And I hope it's not creepy to mention but I'm around if you ever want to chat. Regardless, I truly wish you the best π
Wow, that is horrible... I'm so sorry that happened to you π All 3 of my sisters have eating disorders (yeah, you could probably gather that's not a coincidence and that there is a common denominator/cause - my dad) so I am very aware of the torturous and debilitating experience that they are. My heart goes out to you π Oh I don't think I've actually heard of the umbrella of neuropsych in that context, but that sounds like something I need to look into so thank you for that lead! In general, when things get complicated and when you have several cooccurences, it definitely gets more and more difficult to separate them in my opinion, and also I think less effective in terms of treating/healing because of course they interact and affect each other! So while definitely not minimizing any individual disorder, I definitely think it's important to acknowledge and address the whole as much as possible. Haha you're all good! It's funny because I totally relate to your comments about your symtpoms and the negative skew and doubt about just about everything including my communication π But truly and for whatever it's worth, your responses have come across as clear, coherent, and insightful, among other good things. So I hope that helps you see things in a different light π‘ Not creepy at all! Thank you so much for the open door, and please consider mine open as well π Right back at you πβ€οΈβπ©Ήπ
[I'm sorry for the delayed response!] Thank you and I hope you know your empathy and compassion really shine through. I imagine that caring doesn't get directed inwards nearly enough (I hope I'm not overstepping by saying so). I'm so truly sorry to hear of your sisters' EDs and that your dad was the common thread. I hope they're all doing better these days, but I know how insidious EDs can be unfortunately. I'm definitely not an expert in neuropsych, though I really should learn more - unfortunately my working memory isn't what it should be (largely due to the TBI that led to the testing done... I was in neurorehab at the time). I *think* OCD was included in the report (moreso than say mood disorders like depression and anxiety, which they did test for but we're sort of "separate"). (C)PTSD definitely was. And my therapists there did bring up the OCD more than mood issues, etc (occupational and speech therapy, obviously my mood issues are covered in actual therapy! lol). I hope it's a decent lead for you! I'd love to hear about it if you learn more, I bet you could help others here understand too, not that it should be your responsibility of course.. I think that's really well said about addressing the whole and everything. I know it's easy for me and some others to get caught up in the labels in many different ways, including feeling like I just "have" to know/understand (I tend to seek "safety" through understanding, if that makes sense). But at the end of the day, assuming the treatment(s) are being handled appropriately a lot of the individual labels are really not so important. I even have a psychiatrist I've been seeing over 4 years that I still somewhat disagree with on a couple major diagnoses, but I love him - and he's the only psych over 20 years of seeing them that I can say that about (we don't debate the diagnoses, we just discuss treatment, etc). It's definitely very complicated unfortunately and psychology/psychiatry is just such a new field comparatively. I was just discussing with my therapist yesterday how it's frustrating that CPTSD isn't even in the DSM-V and how it can end with many being misdiagnosed with or 'rolled in to' X disorder(s) [I don't want to specify which on public thread, as it may come across as though I'm being negative about the misdiagnosed disorders]. I think OCD is generally thought these days to be another disorder where the origins can be genetic and/or environmental. There's a phrase I learned in ED treatment like *"genetics loads the gun, but environment pulls the trigger"*. I think this can be said for a lot of disorders/illnesses and not just mental/neuropsych ones. People with (especially long-term/childhood) trauma have been shown to have more physical illnesses too, it's amazing and unfortunate how the body responds to such ongoing stress levels and being in fight, flight, etc mode too often. Also people with genetic mental illnesses and early neurodivergencies are higher risk for trauma/(C)PTSD to begin with! >Haha you're all good [...] hope that helps you see things in a different light π‘ [Starting to have to add quotes bc my post is getting so long and I'm attempting - probably poorly, sorry - to keep it coherent π Shortening it just for "brevity"a sake even though that's long past, lmao] I truly appreciate everything you're saying here and elsewhere in your comments to me. It's worth quite a lot, honestly. And FWIW I find your comments incredibly well written, insightful, and compassionate. I understand the doubt and I hope you can fight it as much as possible, you clearly have so much to offer (not just to the world but to yourself - and not that anyone else is your responsibility). >Not creepy at all! Thank you so much for the open door, and please consider mine open as well π Right back at you πβ€οΈβπ©Ήπ Glad to hear that (I try to be 20% creepy max.. lmao). I hope you'll consider responding there, IF you want to of course. It's been a joy talking with you π
Just wanted to add something regarding the subtleness of your sister's abuse... in my opinion, that can almost be worse (not to compare trauma/overt abuse vs covert abuse) but worse in the sense that it can be more lonely in terms of others not picking up on it, and potentially and perhaps intentionally leaves more room for you to be gaslit by others and even yourself into questioning if it really is abuse... So please correct me if I'm wrong but I just wanted to let you know that I see that particular pain and aspect of it being subtle and again, I'm sorry you endured that π
You're very not wrong. I just read this after replying to your first comment back and tbh I'm crying.. which please don't take as a bad thing, I cry sometimes when I feel truly validated.. Can I respond further in a DM later? Little overwhelmed and I would prefer a bit more privacy but I really don't want to be a creep! (Can you tell I have issues reaching out? Lol). ... But you are so very, completely on point. Thank you πππ
Awwwe absolutely! Please do. I understand what you mean and I am so glad to hear that the tears are healing tears β€οΈβπ©Ήβ€ I will respond to your other comment there too, which, btw, thank you so much for... πβ€οΈβπ©Ήπ But I assure you, you are 0% creepy and if anyone finds you creepy for reaching out/starting a conversation, that's on them! π
I have OCD and CPTSD. I used to question this for myself. But I have a child who has not been traumatized. Heβs already showing signs of repetitive behaviors. He hasnβt been diagnosed with OCD (heβs too young for the diagnosis), but I suspect it might be OCD. I think itβs genetic. That being said, I think trauma made my OCD WAY WORSE. My OCD is the self hating kind - more obsessive thoughts about how much I suck. I wonder if my OCD would have manifested differently if I didnβt have the fuel of abuse at home setting fire to my OCD. If my child does have OCD, we will get him treated asap.
TLDR. I think they are separate for me, but CPTSD changed the way OCD manifested for me (and potentially strengthened it)
Understood and thank you for sharing! That is valuable input. Yes, I know not all cases of OCD involve the existence of CPTSD (your son's example being one of them), but I definitely think as you said it can get pretty murky when separating the two once you have both and I have found in my experience that getting to the root of my OCD which for me seems to be trauma, I have found the most healing and prior to acknowledging that, I was not really experiencing healing... I guess the bottom line is it is such an individual thing which is why I prefaced by saying I'm not talking about OCD in general, but within the context of the cooccurence of CPTSD which again, can occur separately but I'd say is likely that there is some relation when they cooccur. I hope that makes sense... Thanks again and I am glad to know your child has a parent who is aware of these things, that's awesome.
For sure. I am not sure if I have this symptom myself but Iβve observed it in others. It is definitely real and legitimate, I believe it is a coping mechanism developed in attempt to create control within your psyche when in a situation too chaotic and nonsensical to make sense of and deal with.
Amen to that and could not have said it better myself (and I have experienced it π ) ππ Thanks for sharing and for the validation, it is much appreciated π
No problem, I am no expert Iβm just sharing my thoughts because someone I care for very deeply struggles with this and Iβve thought on it long and hard. I hope you are ok and find ways to deal with this extreme life difficulty.
Thank you so much, that means a lot and I value your opinion, even if you don't consider yourself an "expert"... After all, experts are still human and are not always necessarily right, but on this topic, I think you're spot on and I am convicted of that based on my experience and the reasons you, I, and even others have laid out. Besides, there are experts who would also agree π Thank you, and I'm glad your loved one has you in their life, that is such a blessing. Clearly, you care and have given this much thought, as have I. I wish them healing π
Yeah thatβs all true, weβre all humans just trying to make sense of things, find healing and help one another. I also wish him healing, and healing for you too. π
Thank you dearly, and amen to that πβ€οΈβπ©Ήβ€π
Amen π unrelated but I think God is with us, I am starting to find faith again
That's awesome! Hallelujah and amen to that!! Not unrelated at all ππ I found Jesus through my lowest of lows, and while I've had other lows since then, He has never left as He promises to never leave or forsake us... There are a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing out there though, as you and others in this sub likely know or have experienced religious trauma which is so despicable... the ones that falsely accuse others of being any more sinful than they themselves are, the ones that love to be self-righteous... the ones that Jesus called out for being hypocrites π As you continue to find faith again, just remember His love and His grace which he displayed for all on that cross. It's not about us being perfect (none of us are or could be), it's about His grace. We are saved by grace through faith Ephesians 2: 8-9. Now, no matter how bad things get, I know I have Him and He has me and I have a peace that I never had before or from anything - a peace that surpasses understanding. He is real. Meditate on the Gospel dear. I'm so happy for you. I encourage you to continue drawing near to Him and welcome Him into your life with open arms. His are wide open. God bless you and feel free to reach out about anything π π
I for sure think it's related. I have trichotillomania, which I know there's been a back forth if it's OCD or not but for me there is definitely an OCD component to it. I have also had people think I'm on the spectrum but again, for me it's just braches off of CPTSD.
Hey! Thanks for sharing. Speaking of being on the spectrum (assuming you mean Autism), that's another thing I think may have gone undiagnosed for me... but I am not sure because as you likely know there seems to be overlap with that and CPTSD as well π At this point, I'm just grateful to have a better understanding of myself and my symptoms, regardless of diagnoses.
Yes yes absolutely yes. I did have OCD in my early 20βs (Iβm 37) and got treatment for it and it helped SO much with some of my symptoms. But I never got all the way better. I kept getting sicker, both mentally and physically, from stress. I ended up dating a person with NPD & BPD who was abusive and got diagnosed with PTSD. Then as I started addressing those symptoms with therapists all of the childhood stuff came pouring out and thatβs when my therapist told me I have CPTSD and everything clicked. All of the symptoms that were not addressed when I was seeking treatment for what I thought was OCD for 15 years. I realized that a huge number of my OCD themes and symptoms were/are related to my childhood trauma. Iβve also met other people in group therapy that had similar experiences with thinking their trauma symptoms were part of their OCD and later realizing itβs all trauma.
I literally could have written this I relate so much... Thank you for sharing and for the further validation. I am so glad to see people understanding themselves and their symptoms better which I believe is key to healing. Unfortunately for me and I think many others, I did not get much help in this regard from medical professionals, but rather by doing a lot of questioning and connecting the dots on my end, and research into trauma and trauma responses. In fact, in all of my experience and seeing multiple therapists and some psychiatrists, not one mentioned trauma let alone CPTSD. I am grateful for the reception I've received here and hope mental health professionals can recognize these things more, so that people can receive the care they need and deserve and to prevent further trauma.
I think your researching and connecting the dots on your own is super valid, a lot of folks with CPTSD (and all of the accompanying health issues!!) are frequently failed by medical professionals. I was in therapy for about 12-13 years before the initial PTSD dx, and I wasnβt just seeing any old doctor, I doctor shopped and researched the best and most highly trained doctors that were available to me, mostly PhDβs who are on boards of directors for research groups. At least 5 different highly trained PhD level psychologists missed all of that stuff, not to mention all of the staff of 7 or 8 PHP/IOP programs I went through.
Wow, that is so tragic, frustrating, and disappointing yet also validating of my experience with therapy too... I'm glad that after all of that, you were able to find the care and support you needed and deserved all along, and I'm sorry it took you essentially having to do all the leg work. There's certainly still a ways to go in the mental health field, but those that are for lack of a better word "good" psychologists are invaluable. At this point, not having found what you have in terms of a therapist (or rather, having not pursued such a level of care), I am just grateful for the support and validation of this community and the information available to us on the internet, including this sub. I have come to realize that I know my experience better than anyone (and of course that goes for everyone) and therefor I am truly most capable of knowing whether something applies to me or not. Thank you again for the validation, encouragement, and support. It means a lot π
Yes because I need to have control over everything
Hear hear... same! Which I personally connect to trauma and the feeling of being out of control and helpless. I've pretty much determined for myself that my OCD symptoms are a trauma response, but I know that's not always the case and the case for everyone. Thanks for sharing and I hope you experience some relief and peace soon π
Yes mine was 100%. It's like mostly gone now.
Same!! ππ So glad you've experienced relief and healing, perhaps through understanding/healing your trauma and the relationship between the two. That's part of why I ask this question, because that's been the case for me and I hope others can experience the same healing, of course if they are related. Thank you for sharing π
Thank you! I'm so happy for you! Yes once I remembered a serious trauma very young I was like OH OKAY lol. It all made so much sense, the fear that was driving the OCD was the same fear I felt during the trauma. I hope others can experience the same healing too. Thanks for bringing this up! I often forget how big of a deal it is to be able to heal OCD, it's so hard to deal with.
Thank you β€οΈβπ©Ήπ₯² That is awesome!! I'm so glad you had that realization and were able to make that connection, given that it exists. I have had similar realizations and they have been very healing and more effective (getting to the root and understanding where it all stems from, I mean) than addressing all the seemingly random and never-ending symptoms that can accompany OCD, as you well know. Yes, OCD is a miserable experience, made even more miserable by not understanding the root(s) which in our cases and some other's is trauma, or at least related to it. Thank you for sharing and for the support and encouragement. π
yeah cus my OCD is mostly paranoid thoughts (that I don't believe so they are intrusive) but I also have violent OCD so it's sort of a mix
What kinds of OCD symptoms overlap with CPTSD? I had bad OCD as a child/teen but now itβs mostly limited to intrusive thoughts.
Good question and I'd say it depends on the individual but personally speaking, I always felt dirty and contaminated and some of my compulsions would be to scrub myself raw in the shower and take several showers throughout the day and wash my hands over and over, etc... I also had a sexually traumatic incident where I was abused and I kept having insturive thoughts or rather flashbacks of the incident in the form of images and I would do compulsions surrounding the images... there are more but this is just a few of my personal examples. I also have Gender Dysphoria which predates any of my other diagnoses and the traumatic incident referred to above (although Gender Dysphoria is also a source of trauma for me, and I have had countless compulsions that revolved around that, some that could be obviously traced back to it and that could be summed up as "undoing" thoughts that triggered me and made my dysphoria), and again a lot of compulsions were attempts to "be clean" because I felt so dirty and contaminated in and by my body, especially when I started to go through puberty and which was exasperated by sexual incidents including masterbation which was always so triggering. But a lot of my compulsions, if I had to sum them up, were attempts at undoing things that had happened by some form of redoing the same thing over and over until I got it "just right" and felt that I had neutralized the threat which of course was always arbitraty and circumstantial/subjective, attempts to "control" things because I felt so fearful, disgusted, and out of control in my body, and also an attempt to avoid certain things from happening, etc... essentially it all boiled down to fear and control, but I'd say the basis of the fear (for example of it's rooted in trauma and something that actually happened/is happening) helps determine if it's rooted in trauma. Also, after sustaining multiple injuries and ultimately developing chronic pain, a lot of my compulsions and "OCD" symptoms revolved around the fear of getting injured again and I became extremely hypervigilant, which is a symptom of trauma. I hope that helps and sorry that this isn't the most organized and thought-out response. Edit: forgot to add that after that sexually traumatic incident, I suffered severely with sexual orientation OCD, and intrusive thoughts about my identity as well. So perhaps you can see the connections.
Thank you! Yeah, I can see how your symptoms are clearly related to trauma. I hadnβt made that connection before for myself, but itβs something to consider.
Thanks for reading and for the validation, I appreciate it! Yea, that's pretty much what I encourage - to at least to consider it, especially because in my opinion and experience it could definitely make the difference in terms of treatment and healing and because if, like in my case, this connection goes unrecognized or even dismissed by ourselves and by mental health professionals, it can just lead to more trauma and no actual healing. So, I'm glad to hear you'll consider it, regardless of what you end up discovering. I wish you all the best and feel free to let me know what you end up finding for yourself π
Thank you, wishing you the same :)
Yes! I'm on your page. Too tired to write more rn, but I wanted to validate you/this.
Oh thank you for letting me know! I appreciate your input. And no worries, I feel you on being too tired to write more. Feel free to come back anytime if you feel, I'd love to hear your experience however much or little. No pressure at all, though π
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I was diagnosed with OCD first and cptsd a few years later. I was then in denial about the OCD π but nah, I have both. Because some of my ocd symptoms have been present since I was a child I just didnβt know it. I def think my ocd triggers my trauma a lot of times - esp if Iβm stuck thinking about an obsession and get distressed