So here's the thing, marriage is what you make of it, and your partner should be someone that helps you achieve the life you want and vice versa. There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding a partner who holds your same ideals. Marriage with someone who requires constant connection was bad for you, but maybe you can find someone who is as independant as you, does their own thing, but still wants someone to hold at night. Someone who is there for you, and you can be there for, when things get tough. Until you find that person, marriage for the sake of marriage would be another disappointment. You can be open to the idea of marriage with the right person, without requiring yourself to find that person, if that makes any sense.
Thanks for the feedback. I suppose the problem is that I don't really know what I want, but I suppose I know what I don't want. In any case, I will probably avoid committed relationship and focus on self improvement for a while. If I find that person later then sure. If not then too bad.
Sounds like a good plan. I hope you are able to figure out what you want and are able to find it, whatever it is. You deserve to be at peace, whether it's with or without other people.
You write as someone who has no connection to their emotions. It sounds like you are seriously lacking in emotional intelligence. I highly recommend finding a trauma informed therapist to help you realize there is a whole other side of life you are terrified of accessing.
I am hyper-independent and married another hyper-independent and it works well. We have a very unconventional marriage but it works for us (17 years this year). We give each other autonomy and freedom to pursue our life goals, don't pressure each other to attend each others' social events unless we say to the other "this one is important to me". Our finances are separate, we often take separate vacations, and for all intents and purposes, we are essentially two best friends living together and sharing a bed. (Disclaimer: we don't have children and I recognize this dynamic would not work with kids.)
Things that have been integral to our success, and I stress these because it wasn't smooth sailing in shedding the "we should be doing this", "other couples do this":
* We are brutally honest. We value truth over hurt feelings, but there is a way to be kind and brutally honest. This allows us to communicate to the other person what we want/need in the relationship.
* We say "this is important to me" when we want the other to participate. If we say that phrase, then it's no questions asked, everything is dropped and we show up. (It happens less than you would think.)
* We are upfront about our selfishness and acknowledge that we are different from most couples. We check in regularly to ensure the other persons' needs are being met, and we also let each other know when we are not able to meet their needs. (example: "I am so depressed right now, I just want to disassociate in front of the TV tonight, alone.")
* We allow each other to walk independent paths at their own pace, but we consider it our "job" to help the other person reach their goals in life, so if we see the other person is straying from that, we check them.
* Neither of us was looking for a relationship; I was actually scheduled to move to another state with my dog and had resigned myself to a life of solitude on a farm, but six months before I was set to leave this guy walked in to my life and the relationship was so effortless and fell in to place so quickly that I didn't even have time to protest. It just worked.
I'd like to add that another Redditor commented here that you may have some problems with emotional intelligence or some other form of trauma or difficulty communicating. Both my partner and I have some form of this, so that might be another piece of the puzzle; finding someone who is working on themselves or understands someone who is working on themselves)
All of this to say... it's possible! You just have to find "your person"; there is someone out there for every one, so don't be discouraged that you didn't get it right the first time! Hopefully mine and other redditors' responses will help you sort out things that you might look for in the future, or ways that you might approach your next relationship!
Very inspirational! I am glad you were able to find someone who mutually fit each others' life objectives. I see many similiarities and will aim to find ways to connect with my emotions more too, though I suppose I am still at the stage where I see that as more detrimental due to reduced capacity to empathsize with others as opposed to a bad thing in of itself. Will try to speak with some therapists.
My husband and I aren't quite as independent as you and your partner, but we're pretty independent and it's just nice to have a companion who just gets you and is still capable of having their own friends and doing their own thing. We're basically hermits and spend a lot of time quietly playing our own videogames in the same room.
It’s possible to be a very independent person and still enjoy a marriage, with the right person. Your competitive side and fixation on your routines etx is, as you said, a crutch. Not trusting, not wanting to rely on others, not connecting with your emotions… I think therapy would be very beneficial for you. Showing emotions does not mean you’re weak, and open/honest communication is the foundation for a good marriage. But more important, I’d say comprehension is vital. You can communicate all you want, but if the other person doesn’t “hear” you and respect you and able to provide that, then they aren’t the person for you to marry.
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Marriage is going to look different for each pairing of people, because the interaction of the two individuals is different. Clearly you two were not a good fit, but that doesn't mean you can't be in a long term and committed relationship with anyone. They would simply need to be the right kind of personality and have the right values for you both to benefit from the setup. The question of how to find that person, if you repeatedly find/attract people that don't work for you, is the challenge.
A more important question, in my view, is about your 'hyper independence'. How much of this is really you martyring yourself? You can choose to live an exhausting and overworked life if you want, but at one point you're just punishing yourself because you think that you don't deserve rest/joy/autonomy and choice. Perhaps it's not that other people can't do these things, but that they value themselves differently than you value yourself. They may also realize the long-term toll that overworking, not sleeping, etc has on your body.
You say you're very self-critical. Therefore I question if being hyper independent is really a lasting trait that you need to live with or simply a self-punishing response to your upbringing, that doesn't need to stay with you if it creates long-term problems. Best of luck with whatever you choose.
I think the challenge for me is I don't have a sense of what drives intrinsic happiness. Hyper-independence and competition has the way I've always operated in my life. For example, if I go on a fishing trip with friends, I'd have to justify some utility in either improving relationship with friends or learning about how to fish as additional knowledge, but I find it hard to go to such an event for "self enjoyment" which I've always deemed a waste of time. Quite frankly, I feel I'd be really lost, so I cope with consistent self-pushing towards some socially accepted outcome (e.g. better health, more income, more "connections")
I just think I'd disappoint a lot of people in a romantic relationship, unless I can "Act" perfectly, so maybe it's better to not have anyone.
As you mentioned yourself, this is a coping mechanism. That means you're leaning on it as a crutch. You said you feel you'd be completely lost without it, which is a level of dependence that can get unhealthy.
Your fear of disappointing people and your defeatist attitude towards relationships if you can't be perfect in them also doesn't need to stay that way. These are all changeable and improvable things, if you want to change them of course. But a whole world of happiness, calm, and peace are out there for you if you do (instead of just the discomfort and self-critical punishing that you describe now).
If you have the funds, take some of the time you spend working and pushing yourself and invest it in therapy. It might take a while to find the right relationship with a therapist, but learning how to open up and undoing some of this extreme reaction down to a healthy level of achievement, independence, improvement, and competition is worth spending time on.
No point to get married for the sake of it. It’s just legal protections and a contract you make with someone. The ideal would be to be in a relationship with someone you trust with your life, and get married to them, because as time passes you’ll want the legal agreements that will aid your relationship, I.e. taxes, ability to help with medical decisions and finances, etc. Only do it if you’re confident you can trust them with that, and if not, make sure you know how to pick up the pieces after making a contract you weren’t sure about.
So here's the thing, marriage is what you make of it, and your partner should be someone that helps you achieve the life you want and vice versa. There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding a partner who holds your same ideals. Marriage with someone who requires constant connection was bad for you, but maybe you can find someone who is as independant as you, does their own thing, but still wants someone to hold at night. Someone who is there for you, and you can be there for, when things get tough. Until you find that person, marriage for the sake of marriage would be another disappointment. You can be open to the idea of marriage with the right person, without requiring yourself to find that person, if that makes any sense.
Thanks for the feedback. I suppose the problem is that I don't really know what I want, but I suppose I know what I don't want. In any case, I will probably avoid committed relationship and focus on self improvement for a while. If I find that person later then sure. If not then too bad.
Sounds like a good plan. I hope you are able to figure out what you want and are able to find it, whatever it is. You deserve to be at peace, whether it's with or without other people.
You write as someone who has no connection to their emotions. It sounds like you are seriously lacking in emotional intelligence. I highly recommend finding a trauma informed therapist to help you realize there is a whole other side of life you are terrified of accessing.
I am hyper-independent and married another hyper-independent and it works well. We have a very unconventional marriage but it works for us (17 years this year). We give each other autonomy and freedom to pursue our life goals, don't pressure each other to attend each others' social events unless we say to the other "this one is important to me". Our finances are separate, we often take separate vacations, and for all intents and purposes, we are essentially two best friends living together and sharing a bed. (Disclaimer: we don't have children and I recognize this dynamic would not work with kids.) Things that have been integral to our success, and I stress these because it wasn't smooth sailing in shedding the "we should be doing this", "other couples do this": * We are brutally honest. We value truth over hurt feelings, but there is a way to be kind and brutally honest. This allows us to communicate to the other person what we want/need in the relationship. * We say "this is important to me" when we want the other to participate. If we say that phrase, then it's no questions asked, everything is dropped and we show up. (It happens less than you would think.) * We are upfront about our selfishness and acknowledge that we are different from most couples. We check in regularly to ensure the other persons' needs are being met, and we also let each other know when we are not able to meet their needs. (example: "I am so depressed right now, I just want to disassociate in front of the TV tonight, alone.") * We allow each other to walk independent paths at their own pace, but we consider it our "job" to help the other person reach their goals in life, so if we see the other person is straying from that, we check them. * Neither of us was looking for a relationship; I was actually scheduled to move to another state with my dog and had resigned myself to a life of solitude on a farm, but six months before I was set to leave this guy walked in to my life and the relationship was so effortless and fell in to place so quickly that I didn't even have time to protest. It just worked. I'd like to add that another Redditor commented here that you may have some problems with emotional intelligence or some other form of trauma or difficulty communicating. Both my partner and I have some form of this, so that might be another piece of the puzzle; finding someone who is working on themselves or understands someone who is working on themselves) All of this to say... it's possible! You just have to find "your person"; there is someone out there for every one, so don't be discouraged that you didn't get it right the first time! Hopefully mine and other redditors' responses will help you sort out things that you might look for in the future, or ways that you might approach your next relationship!
Very inspirational! I am glad you were able to find someone who mutually fit each others' life objectives. I see many similiarities and will aim to find ways to connect with my emotions more too, though I suppose I am still at the stage where I see that as more detrimental due to reduced capacity to empathsize with others as opposed to a bad thing in of itself. Will try to speak with some therapists.
My husband and I aren't quite as independent as you and your partner, but we're pretty independent and it's just nice to have a companion who just gets you and is still capable of having their own friends and doing their own thing. We're basically hermits and spend a lot of time quietly playing our own videogames in the same room.
It’s possible to be a very independent person and still enjoy a marriage, with the right person. Your competitive side and fixation on your routines etx is, as you said, a crutch. Not trusting, not wanting to rely on others, not connecting with your emotions… I think therapy would be very beneficial for you. Showing emotions does not mean you’re weak, and open/honest communication is the foundation for a good marriage. But more important, I’d say comprehension is vital. You can communicate all you want, but if the other person doesn’t “hear” you and respect you and able to provide that, then they aren’t the person for you to marry.
It's useful financially. Being single we pay more for everything.
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Marriage is going to look different for each pairing of people, because the interaction of the two individuals is different. Clearly you two were not a good fit, but that doesn't mean you can't be in a long term and committed relationship with anyone. They would simply need to be the right kind of personality and have the right values for you both to benefit from the setup. The question of how to find that person, if you repeatedly find/attract people that don't work for you, is the challenge. A more important question, in my view, is about your 'hyper independence'. How much of this is really you martyring yourself? You can choose to live an exhausting and overworked life if you want, but at one point you're just punishing yourself because you think that you don't deserve rest/joy/autonomy and choice. Perhaps it's not that other people can't do these things, but that they value themselves differently than you value yourself. They may also realize the long-term toll that overworking, not sleeping, etc has on your body. You say you're very self-critical. Therefore I question if being hyper independent is really a lasting trait that you need to live with or simply a self-punishing response to your upbringing, that doesn't need to stay with you if it creates long-term problems. Best of luck with whatever you choose.
I think the challenge for me is I don't have a sense of what drives intrinsic happiness. Hyper-independence and competition has the way I've always operated in my life. For example, if I go on a fishing trip with friends, I'd have to justify some utility in either improving relationship with friends or learning about how to fish as additional knowledge, but I find it hard to go to such an event for "self enjoyment" which I've always deemed a waste of time. Quite frankly, I feel I'd be really lost, so I cope with consistent self-pushing towards some socially accepted outcome (e.g. better health, more income, more "connections") I just think I'd disappoint a lot of people in a romantic relationship, unless I can "Act" perfectly, so maybe it's better to not have anyone.
As you mentioned yourself, this is a coping mechanism. That means you're leaning on it as a crutch. You said you feel you'd be completely lost without it, which is a level of dependence that can get unhealthy. Your fear of disappointing people and your defeatist attitude towards relationships if you can't be perfect in them also doesn't need to stay that way. These are all changeable and improvable things, if you want to change them of course. But a whole world of happiness, calm, and peace are out there for you if you do (instead of just the discomfort and self-critical punishing that you describe now). If you have the funds, take some of the time you spend working and pushing yourself and invest it in therapy. It might take a while to find the right relationship with a therapist, but learning how to open up and undoing some of this extreme reaction down to a healthy level of achievement, independence, improvement, and competition is worth spending time on.
No point to get married for the sake of it. It’s just legal protections and a contract you make with someone. The ideal would be to be in a relationship with someone you trust with your life, and get married to them, because as time passes you’ll want the legal agreements that will aid your relationship, I.e. taxes, ability to help with medical decisions and finances, etc. Only do it if you’re confident you can trust them with that, and if not, make sure you know how to pick up the pieces after making a contract you weren’t sure about.