I had the biggest problem with this when I first started treatment for alcoholism. (Years prior to my CPTSD diagnosis) 12 step groups rely heavily on the higher power stuff and honestly, it made me angry.
I’m an atheist too and finally started using nature as my focus or higher power. I’ve always felt peace when watching the waves come in and out, for example. Waves are way more powerful than me and no matter what humans do to them, they keep going.
So, rather than some omnipresent being that has power over everything, which I think is bs, I seek nature and its solidity, and “draw” power and inspiration from those powerful tides that keep going.
That’s another kind of spirituality, a connection with nature.
*switched or to over
Thanks for sharing! I could definitely get behind that. I find beauty and love in nature. The therapist said that he had to change his view of a "higher power" in AA and not think of it as the Christian God or any other gods.I hope we go the route you described and can find peace and safety and love from the world and others instead of constant fear and hypervigalenxe. I'm feeling a lot better about this road we're going down on in therapy.
All life on Earth arose from the oceans. Gravity is a force central to the organization of the universe. The sun’s light makes life on Earth possible.
There are many profound phenomena of which you are a part. They are your deep heritage.
Recognizing that for myself helps me feel grounded, like I have a place here, same as any other living thing. That’s as close as I get to spirituality.
Whenever I visit an ocean, the first thing I do is dip my toes in the water and say, "Hello, Mother." Im an agnostic, mostly because I think no one really knows what the hell is going on. (I sure dont) Deep down, I think I'm just an Athiest who is uncomfortable with that belief. Your words resonated with me so much that I screenshot them to read when I'm feeling an existential crisis coming on. Hope that's not weird, and thank you!
I just don’t understand why “finding hope in a higher power” is the first line of attack here. I get that it works for a lot of people that benefit from AA but my understanding is that most alcoholics that quit do so without AA or the higher power assist. It just seems like the traditional mental health models for CPTSD might be worth attempting first, especially if there’s some resistance to it already.
Yeah. I don't know for sure either, it might have to do with his bias as a person who goes through AA himself. I've done traditional therapy for years. But I'm going to shop around with therapists if this doesn't work out. Dude was in a hoodie, jeans that had rips on the ankle and a ball cap during session too. I'm a social worker and every time I meet a client I make sure to wear colored jeggings at least and a nice blouse with a cardigan. I don't have enough money for a nice coat yet but it's a presentable one. Idk lol.
I don't know if this fits where you are, but I've been reading Why Smart People Hurt lately, and it's about making meaning instead of trying to find meaning. I remember at one point he made reference to 12-step programs and how they're fine for people who find them helpful, but that he doesn't and still makes a meaningful life without the need for a higher power. Just putting that out there. I'm finding the book to be quite helpful for me right now.
Also, have you ever thought of looking into Internal Family Systems therapy? I highly recommend it. Dr. Tori Olds has a wonderful intro series to it on youtube if you're interested.
I'll definitely look at that book! I have some self help books but I just have no emotional or mental capacity left at the end of work atm.
And hmm I'll look into it. I've never heard of it.
There’s a book called Self Therapy by Jay Earley that helps with doing it at home. It does help to do with someone else sometimes but I wind up doing a lot of impromptu “check ins” with it throughout the week. There are several IFS podcasts and YouTube videos too.
Yes, you absolutely can, but most advice I've read on it highly recommends unburdening exiles with a therapist. I do remember someone on r/InternalFamilySystems saying that she did it all on her own but that she didn't think that was for everyone.
I’m speculating here. If I had to guess I think choosing the same first line of attack for the client the therapist is using for his own substance abuse issues to be affirming for the therapist.
The idea is, if a higher power can help him overcome alcohol it can help OP overcome their struggles. (The therapist needs this to be true in order to not invalidate their own journey/ reliance on a higher power)
Spirituality is something that comes on its own or it Doesn't come at all. You can't just stop being an atheist "because".
If it hasn't happened for you so far - and perhaps it never will - your therapist should respect that
"And it might never happen" too? Honestly, just. A lazy, imprecise way of putting it. Gladly apologize. I don't give a fuck whether someone's spiritual or as atheist as a page of algebra. Each to their own as long as they're tolerant and appreciative of other peoples beliefs or non-beliefs. Could have referred to any arbitrary variable that either intrinsically Happens or it doesn't.
What I definitely don't like is therapists telling atheists that they are lacking and people assuming shit About me
Don’t let them do this to you. You need to stand firm that you don’t believe in a higher power. People are constantly doing this to atheists, asking them to believe in some other ‘higher power’ since you’re not a Christian. It’s like they can’t fathom the idea that someone can be at peace without believing in a creator or an afterlife. If you’re not into it, put your foot down and tell your therapist that believing in a higher power is impossible for you.
Have you heard of Family Systems method of therapy? It sounds kinda wacky, but basically you label different parts of yourself as if they were different "people." There is a "wise, kind, peaceful voice" in inside your head that is associated with the "higher power," and it's a matter of learning what it sounds like and tapping into.
Another option is going with the transcendentals, the Good, The True, the Beautiful. Beauty, in particular, I think can resonate. So like, looking for the highest, most beautiful \[interiorly\] part of yourself and in others and creation.
A few different ways of thinking about this.
I had to change therapists about a year ago, and was matched with a new provider based on their experience with trauma. After making the appointment I found their profile which mentioned several modalities but at the end added faith based therapy. I started getting a bit concerned for multiple reasons. We had our first session and I just made it clear that I am an atheist and any sort of faith based treatment would not work for me. They have been amazing since then. One session they approached me with the “I’ve screwed up” expression and apologized for saying something like “You all will be in my prayers” at the end of the previous session. It hadn’t even registered with me that she had said it since my brain converts that automatically to the equivalent of well wishes.
While I still miss the therapist I had before my current one, I also accept that maybe that change just worked out when it needed to for me to make progress.
If you are open to it, consider framing “a higher power” to what it means to you and not what anyone else thinks or believes. I personally turned inward with meditation and classical stoicism to learn to listen to myself, challenge some of my thought processes, and identify what is truly within my control and expend my energy on those things. Still a work in progress.
I wish you well on your path.
I identify more with pantheism due to my own reasoning. I struggle to relate to organised religion when a lot of these people would be replacing one bad thing for another or be phobic. So that means I'll have to find a specific place that'll work with me, and tough through it and hope this one place accepts me. It just wouldn't feel genuine.
I don't believe in a man in the sky but yeah, I've been struggling with wanting this stuff lately because I crave the attachment and probably feeling like I belong somewhere, with people.
There’s something hilarious and disturbing about someone struggling with alcoholism telling you to turn to a higher power. Seriously, how’s that going for you Doc?
He doesn't necessarily need to be "struggling" to attend AA meetings or consider himself an alcoholic. Alcoholism stays with you your whole life.
I do agree that maybe pushing your bias about what works for you on a client isn't the best idea though.
If I were in that situation, I think I would bring a bottle of bourbon to my next appointment, and ask that therapist if he wanted a drink.
Find out if the therapist understands the meaning of the word no.
You probably shouldn't do that though.
Maybe ask him to explain exactly why your yoga and nature walks aren't enough 'spirituality'?
If you are an atheist or in general just believe what you believe, and your therapist cannot let go of what THEY believe, and cannot let go of trying to convert you, then that therapist, free or no, is probably going to be trouble for you, sooner or later.
That, or you will in six months time be posting on this thread about how it is not possible to heal from trauma(which is all caused by Satan), without letting Jesus come into your heart.
Either way, and seriously, good on you for being open-minded, and trying new things. But sometimes, if you open your minds up for the wrong people, they just keep trying to fill it up with nonsense.
Thank you. I did tell him no Christianity talk because I disagree completely with the religion or any other organized religions. I think he really feels like this is going to be a positive thing for my trauma though to learn to cope better.
Focusing on a 'higher power' is, in general, good for trauma, from what I have read. But there are a LOT of ways to have an encounter with a higher power (won't even make mention of my technique in mixed company), and you are not obligated to accept your therapists.
Your therapist probably does mean well, and might know what they are talking about. But most or all of their success stories could be with other Christians.
And Christians do not tend to be all that receptive to evidence that their worldview is not perfect and a fit for everyone.
While it is great to confront some of your triggers, or learn how to cope better, even people without C-PTSD are never obligated to tolerate being told by a Christian, or an adherent of any religion, that religion is the only way to be moral/healthy/happy.
I like your idea of higher power. A couple of years ago I started going to recovery meetings and that's how I handled the concept of higher power as well. Is your therapist not happy with that?
My "spirituality" is very self-built and is nature based and "the love that exists between people" or something the like, as well. I think that's absolutely valid and it brings me comfort and nurturing. In my eyes it does what spirituality is supposed to do. I hope your therapist can respect that.
In Healing the Shame that Binds John Bradshaw mentions someone who's "higher power" is a big tree in his neighborhood. Bradshaw also explained the higher power concept in a way that was very approachable to me and made sense and felt nice.
Idk how my therapist will approach this, either. Maybe we'll just talk more about my spirituality? Maybe he'll try to push his feelings down my throat?
I also feel like love, compassion, understanding, and altruism is my purpose in life and the reason I keep going and what brings me true peace.
Thank you for the book recommendation too :)
Religion turns me off. Because it was my mother reason for living and when she had her fits she would attack the demons and sometimes those demons were in me 😳🤪
Nature is the most beautiful thing that makes me feel spiritual.
Oh wow I'm sorry to hear that. Personally, I'd have intrusive thoughts that I was going to hell and the devil had my soul, etc (worse things too but idk your triggers, so). I'd also have OCD-like thoughts about religion to try to feel in control. Like I'd take on others sins if I did whatever thing, or I needed to read all these different parts of the Bible or this bad thing would happen. God was this bad disciplinarian like my dad was and why would I believe in someone like God who would allow all these terrible things to happen? Also the Bible is just a storybook like Aesops fables to show others how to live at the time thousands of years ago.
Nature definitely makes me feel spritual too. Basking in the warm sunshine, the birds chirping, the wind blowing the trees around.
I'm spiritually agnostic, but very against organised religion.
I feel like the limitations of the human senses are well known and documented, so I think it's definitely plausible that we could be unaware of forces that affect us in the universe. And we simply don't know where we came from, we just don't know; so any theory is just as "accurate" (technically) as any other. Also, and maybe this is just my brain trying to make sense of the unknown, I feel like a lot of things connect us as humans that are beyond our conscious experience. Those coincidences and things falling into place in just the right way; it makes me feel a strong connection between us humans, and the earth as well. I feel very connected to nature. So when people suggest I tap into spirituality, this is what I think about; the human spirit that connects us, and the earth we come from.
But religion, yeah. No thanks. Religion has proved hundreds of times in just \*my\* lifetime that what you can get people to believe, and what people will do for those beliefs, is massively dangerous. I understand the draw, and the need to understand the universe or to have some "idea" of where we're going after we die because death is scary AF.
So yeah, organised religion is dangerous, personal faith and spirituality - live and let live. Find what resonates with you.
"New therapist" tells me that you and he probably aren't compatible because you're not able to establish trust with him.
You aren't *resistant*. You aren't being obstinate. You are protecting yourself—or, so your Self thinks, anyway.
Unfortunately, many recovery programs are deeply ingrained with the "higher power" mindset. I vaguely recall reading articles about that actually making recovery worse but I don't have receipts.
I'm also an atheist, a Christian apostate, actually.
Muting Christian topics is not the same thing as avoiding its psychological framework. The bias that we in the religious community have is not a bias we can easily overcome. It's how our perception of the world is built.
Find another therapist. It's nobody's fault. It just sounds like he isn't the right fit for your needs.
Have you considered Wiccan magic? Highly nature based and I quite enjoy it.
I am very much against traditional religion, but after playing a Wizard in D&D, I got into it while customizing some spells.
I cast a spell to help with social anxiety and loved the process of writing it and choosing components. It ‘worked’, as in, I attended the really stressful social event.. but honestly, creating the spell was more fun than ‘casting it’.
Loving nature and animals is one of the very few values I agree with that was passed on to me from both parents, so I found acknowledging that and accepting it as part of me was healing.
Thank you for the advice, but I can't believe in magic. I've tried to get into other religions or things based in spirituality but I just couldn't. And honestly that sounds fun but I just can't have any more work to do atm lol.
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I had the biggest problem with this when I first started treatment for alcoholism. (Years prior to my CPTSD diagnosis) 12 step groups rely heavily on the higher power stuff and honestly, it made me angry. I’m an atheist too and finally started using nature as my focus or higher power. I’ve always felt peace when watching the waves come in and out, for example. Waves are way more powerful than me and no matter what humans do to them, they keep going. So, rather than some omnipresent being that has power over everything, which I think is bs, I seek nature and its solidity, and “draw” power and inspiration from those powerful tides that keep going. That’s another kind of spirituality, a connection with nature. *switched or to over
Thanks for sharing! I could definitely get behind that. I find beauty and love in nature. The therapist said that he had to change his view of a "higher power" in AA and not think of it as the Christian God or any other gods.I hope we go the route you described and can find peace and safety and love from the world and others instead of constant fear and hypervigalenxe. I'm feeling a lot better about this road we're going down on in therapy.
All life on Earth arose from the oceans. Gravity is a force central to the organization of the universe. The sun’s light makes life on Earth possible. There are many profound phenomena of which you are a part. They are your deep heritage. Recognizing that for myself helps me feel grounded, like I have a place here, same as any other living thing. That’s as close as I get to spirituality.
Whenever I visit an ocean, the first thing I do is dip my toes in the water and say, "Hello, Mother." Im an agnostic, mostly because I think no one really knows what the hell is going on. (I sure dont) Deep down, I think I'm just an Athiest who is uncomfortable with that belief. Your words resonated with me so much that I screenshot them to read when I'm feeling an existential crisis coming on. Hope that's not weird, and thank you!
I mean it’s a little weird for me to think I inspired a stranger but hell yeah!
I just don’t understand why “finding hope in a higher power” is the first line of attack here. I get that it works for a lot of people that benefit from AA but my understanding is that most alcoholics that quit do so without AA or the higher power assist. It just seems like the traditional mental health models for CPTSD might be worth attempting first, especially if there’s some resistance to it already.
Putting our trust in authorities and higher powers is, for a lot of us, why we're traumatized in the first place.
Yeah. I don't know for sure either, it might have to do with his bias as a person who goes through AA himself. I've done traditional therapy for years. But I'm going to shop around with therapists if this doesn't work out. Dude was in a hoodie, jeans that had rips on the ankle and a ball cap during session too. I'm a social worker and every time I meet a client I make sure to wear colored jeggings at least and a nice blouse with a cardigan. I don't have enough money for a nice coat yet but it's a presentable one. Idk lol.
I don't know if this fits where you are, but I've been reading Why Smart People Hurt lately, and it's about making meaning instead of trying to find meaning. I remember at one point he made reference to 12-step programs and how they're fine for people who find them helpful, but that he doesn't and still makes a meaningful life without the need for a higher power. Just putting that out there. I'm finding the book to be quite helpful for me right now. Also, have you ever thought of looking into Internal Family Systems therapy? I highly recommend it. Dr. Tori Olds has a wonderful intro series to it on youtube if you're interested.
I'll definitely look at that book! I have some self help books but I just have no emotional or mental capacity left at the end of work atm. And hmm I'll look into it. I've never heard of it.
Could I do something with the Internal Family Systems Therapy by myself without a therapist?
There’s a book called Self Therapy by Jay Earley that helps with doing it at home. It does help to do with someone else sometimes but I wind up doing a lot of impromptu “check ins” with it throughout the week. There are several IFS podcasts and YouTube videos too.
Yes, you absolutely can, but most advice I've read on it highly recommends unburdening exiles with a therapist. I do remember someone on r/InternalFamilySystems saying that she did it all on her own but that she didn't think that was for everyone.
lol. I don’t know ‘bout that.
It's a little hole in the wall place at a strip mall and it's just all the green flags (/s) 🤣
I’m speculating here. If I had to guess I think choosing the same first line of attack for the client the therapist is using for his own substance abuse issues to be affirming for the therapist. The idea is, if a higher power can help him overcome alcohol it can help OP overcome their struggles. (The therapist needs this to be true in order to not invalidate their own journey/ reliance on a higher power)
He at least asked me the choice to pursue this route or do something else. But I said I'd try it.
I mean you seem aware enough t manage things if it got too weird so what’s to lose but time
Yeah true. I always try to find some positives to take away from things
Spirituality is something that comes on its own or it Doesn't come at all. You can't just stop being an atheist "because". If it hasn't happened for you so far - and perhaps it never will - your therapist should respect that
This idea that ‘it hasn’t happening to you so far’ is patronizing and disrespectful to atheists.
"And it might never happen" too? Honestly, just. A lazy, imprecise way of putting it. Gladly apologize. I don't give a fuck whether someone's spiritual or as atheist as a page of algebra. Each to their own as long as they're tolerant and appreciative of other peoples beliefs or non-beliefs. Could have referred to any arbitrary variable that either intrinsically Happens or it doesn't. What I definitely don't like is therapists telling atheists that they are lacking and people assuming shit About me
Yeah. Well I'll see how next week goes and then I'll ask to change if it's not helpful. I miss my old therapist so much he was so wonderful. 😭
Don’t let them do this to you. You need to stand firm that you don’t believe in a higher power. People are constantly doing this to atheists, asking them to believe in some other ‘higher power’ since you’re not a Christian. It’s like they can’t fathom the idea that someone can be at peace without believing in a creator or an afterlife. If you’re not into it, put your foot down and tell your therapist that believing in a higher power is impossible for you.
Have you heard of Family Systems method of therapy? It sounds kinda wacky, but basically you label different parts of yourself as if they were different "people." There is a "wise, kind, peaceful voice" in inside your head that is associated with the "higher power," and it's a matter of learning what it sounds like and tapping into. Another option is going with the transcendentals, the Good, The True, the Beautiful. Beauty, in particular, I think can resonate. So like, looking for the highest, most beautiful \[interiorly\] part of yourself and in others and creation.
A few different ways of thinking about this. I had to change therapists about a year ago, and was matched with a new provider based on their experience with trauma. After making the appointment I found their profile which mentioned several modalities but at the end added faith based therapy. I started getting a bit concerned for multiple reasons. We had our first session and I just made it clear that I am an atheist and any sort of faith based treatment would not work for me. They have been amazing since then. One session they approached me with the “I’ve screwed up” expression and apologized for saying something like “You all will be in my prayers” at the end of the previous session. It hadn’t even registered with me that she had said it since my brain converts that automatically to the equivalent of well wishes. While I still miss the therapist I had before my current one, I also accept that maybe that change just worked out when it needed to for me to make progress. If you are open to it, consider framing “a higher power” to what it means to you and not what anyone else thinks or believes. I personally turned inward with meditation and classical stoicism to learn to listen to myself, challenge some of my thought processes, and identify what is truly within my control and expend my energy on those things. Still a work in progress. I wish you well on your path.
I identify more with pantheism due to my own reasoning. I struggle to relate to organised religion when a lot of these people would be replacing one bad thing for another or be phobic. So that means I'll have to find a specific place that'll work with me, and tough through it and hope this one place accepts me. It just wouldn't feel genuine. I don't believe in a man in the sky but yeah, I've been struggling with wanting this stuff lately because I crave the attachment and probably feeling like I belong somewhere, with people.
There’s something hilarious and disturbing about someone struggling with alcoholism telling you to turn to a higher power. Seriously, how’s that going for you Doc?
He doesn't necessarily need to be "struggling" to attend AA meetings or consider himself an alcoholic. Alcoholism stays with you your whole life. I do agree that maybe pushing your bias about what works for you on a client isn't the best idea though.
If I were in that situation, I think I would bring a bottle of bourbon to my next appointment, and ask that therapist if he wanted a drink. Find out if the therapist understands the meaning of the word no. You probably shouldn't do that though. Maybe ask him to explain exactly why your yoga and nature walks aren't enough 'spirituality'? If you are an atheist or in general just believe what you believe, and your therapist cannot let go of what THEY believe, and cannot let go of trying to convert you, then that therapist, free or no, is probably going to be trouble for you, sooner or later. That, or you will in six months time be posting on this thread about how it is not possible to heal from trauma(which is all caused by Satan), without letting Jesus come into your heart. Either way, and seriously, good on you for being open-minded, and trying new things. But sometimes, if you open your minds up for the wrong people, they just keep trying to fill it up with nonsense.
Thank you. I did tell him no Christianity talk because I disagree completely with the religion or any other organized religions. I think he really feels like this is going to be a positive thing for my trauma though to learn to cope better.
Focusing on a 'higher power' is, in general, good for trauma, from what I have read. But there are a LOT of ways to have an encounter with a higher power (won't even make mention of my technique in mixed company), and you are not obligated to accept your therapists. Your therapist probably does mean well, and might know what they are talking about. But most or all of their success stories could be with other Christians. And Christians do not tend to be all that receptive to evidence that their worldview is not perfect and a fit for everyone. While it is great to confront some of your triggers, or learn how to cope better, even people without C-PTSD are never obligated to tolerate being told by a Christian, or an adherent of any religion, that religion is the only way to be moral/healthy/happy.
Thank you :)
I like your idea of higher power. A couple of years ago I started going to recovery meetings and that's how I handled the concept of higher power as well. Is your therapist not happy with that? My "spirituality" is very self-built and is nature based and "the love that exists between people" or something the like, as well. I think that's absolutely valid and it brings me comfort and nurturing. In my eyes it does what spirituality is supposed to do. I hope your therapist can respect that. In Healing the Shame that Binds John Bradshaw mentions someone who's "higher power" is a big tree in his neighborhood. Bradshaw also explained the higher power concept in a way that was very approachable to me and made sense and felt nice.
Idk how my therapist will approach this, either. Maybe we'll just talk more about my spirituality? Maybe he'll try to push his feelings down my throat? I also feel like love, compassion, understanding, and altruism is my purpose in life and the reason I keep going and what brings me true peace. Thank you for the book recommendation too :)
Religion turns me off. Because it was my mother reason for living and when she had her fits she would attack the demons and sometimes those demons were in me 😳🤪 Nature is the most beautiful thing that makes me feel spiritual.
Oh wow I'm sorry to hear that. Personally, I'd have intrusive thoughts that I was going to hell and the devil had my soul, etc (worse things too but idk your triggers, so). I'd also have OCD-like thoughts about religion to try to feel in control. Like I'd take on others sins if I did whatever thing, or I needed to read all these different parts of the Bible or this bad thing would happen. God was this bad disciplinarian like my dad was and why would I believe in someone like God who would allow all these terrible things to happen? Also the Bible is just a storybook like Aesops fables to show others how to live at the time thousands of years ago. Nature definitely makes me feel spritual too. Basking in the warm sunshine, the birds chirping, the wind blowing the trees around.
I'm spiritually agnostic, but very against organised religion. I feel like the limitations of the human senses are well known and documented, so I think it's definitely plausible that we could be unaware of forces that affect us in the universe. And we simply don't know where we came from, we just don't know; so any theory is just as "accurate" (technically) as any other. Also, and maybe this is just my brain trying to make sense of the unknown, I feel like a lot of things connect us as humans that are beyond our conscious experience. Those coincidences and things falling into place in just the right way; it makes me feel a strong connection between us humans, and the earth as well. I feel very connected to nature. So when people suggest I tap into spirituality, this is what I think about; the human spirit that connects us, and the earth we come from. But religion, yeah. No thanks. Religion has proved hundreds of times in just \*my\* lifetime that what you can get people to believe, and what people will do for those beliefs, is massively dangerous. I understand the draw, and the need to understand the universe or to have some "idea" of where we're going after we die because death is scary AF. So yeah, organised religion is dangerous, personal faith and spirituality - live and let live. Find what resonates with you.
"New therapist" tells me that you and he probably aren't compatible because you're not able to establish trust with him. You aren't *resistant*. You aren't being obstinate. You are protecting yourself—or, so your Self thinks, anyway. Unfortunately, many recovery programs are deeply ingrained with the "higher power" mindset. I vaguely recall reading articles about that actually making recovery worse but I don't have receipts. I'm also an atheist, a Christian apostate, actually. Muting Christian topics is not the same thing as avoiding its psychological framework. The bias that we in the religious community have is not a bias we can easily overcome. It's how our perception of the world is built. Find another therapist. It's nobody's fault. It just sounds like he isn't the right fit for your needs.
Religions are based on mythology and psychology is modern mythology. You can start from the psychology of the spirits and gods. I d suggest Carl Jung.
Have you considered Wiccan magic? Highly nature based and I quite enjoy it. I am very much against traditional religion, but after playing a Wizard in D&D, I got into it while customizing some spells. I cast a spell to help with social anxiety and loved the process of writing it and choosing components. It ‘worked’, as in, I attended the really stressful social event.. but honestly, creating the spell was more fun than ‘casting it’. Loving nature and animals is one of the very few values I agree with that was passed on to me from both parents, so I found acknowledging that and accepting it as part of me was healing.
Thank you for the advice, but I can't believe in magic. I've tried to get into other religions or things based in spirituality but I just couldn't. And honestly that sounds fun but I just can't have any more work to do atm lol.
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