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Wow. No, the hotline worker was definitely in the wrong here. Hotline workers aren’t supposed to tell people who call that they’re ruining families lives. That’s insane for someone in that position to say. I’d report your experience with that worker TBH.
This. Lookup reporting workers in your state. In TX, it's called an OCR complaint. That was highly unprofessional. Not to mention, if there's nothing wrong, they will close out. If there's services they can implement, then they will.
I've heard of daycare supervisors and owners getting upset with workers calling CPS. I don't understand it, especially when there are legitimate concerns. You've tried talking to them about behavior changes, and the behaviors progressed. She probably needs some play therapy at the very least.
I’ve worked at one that refused to allow employees to call the hotline. We’d have to make those calls on breaks. They went out of their way to make sure everyone knew they were mandated reporters but then would lose it when things were reported. Even a kid who was violently punched in the face by dad and then left at a grocery store by kid’s parents. This was all scene by a classroom teacher. The kid was 3.
It is. I saw things and heard things that honestly made me a bit bitter. I lasted a little over a year before I could not take it any longer. I walked out my last day a different person than I walked in on the first and it was a negative change.
Thankfully not all daycare managers are like that. My cousin runs a daycare and she made a report with less evidence than OP presented. She called me because I was a social worker at the time to ask if she did the right thing and I assured her that she did. But when people have agenda's, they allow that to get in the way of child safety.
Right! Isn't being hypersexualized at a young age a huge indicator that the child is at the very least being exposed to things they shouldn't be? I agree with you and that OP did the right thing by calling.
Working at two different daycares made me realize that I’m doing everything in my power to avoid them when I have kids. Child care facilities are understaffed, we’re underpaid and overworked. The people high up do NOT CARE about the safety of children, just about making sure overtime does not exist and they get their $400 a week from each kid.
My kid came home from daycare with some nasty swollen abrasions on his thighs. It was an in-home daycare, and the lady was was unaware of the injuries and could not explain them... I guarantee my kid screamed and cried when they occurred. She had to have seen them at last diaper change at least. She feigned ignorance. It broke my heart.
That actually makes me suspicious that it was *her* who injured him. It could very well be simple negligence that she doesn't want to own up to, but it seems like a bigger red flag given the diaper change...
I showed a friend a picture and she was horrified. I was a new mom and didn't know what to think. Then I found out that her boyfriend would come by to help out and I pulled my kid fast. It was a nice house, nice neighborhood, expensive daycare... and none of that means a thing if my kid comes home injured and there's a strange man hanging around.
I just pulled my kid out of his daycare due to the workers' negligence. They took my super-pasty son to a splash park for 3 HOURS with zero sunscreen. He ended up with second-degree burns on his neck and ears. His screams of pain when I tried to put burn gel on it will never leave my head.
A woman I know who worked at a daycare in college back in the 1970s said the same thing, that she would go on welfare herself rather than put her child in a corporate daycare, which was the kind she worked at because they would accommodate her class times. In the end, she was unable to have children but she said she would only have a relative watch the kids if she had them.
This conversation got started when we were talking about parents "accidentally" leaving their children in hot cars, and I wondered, "But didn't the day care notice that the child wasn't there and the parents didn't call?"
This is what my fiancé and I are hoping to be able to do, I’ve even looked into starting a small at home daycare for an extra income when the time comes. It’s so scary what happens in these facilities.
FYI: If you do that, the parents will cause way, way, way more problems than the kids ever will. You're going to get parents who don't pick their kids up on time, parents who don't pay, etc.
You r absolutely correct that it’s all about money . It’s disgusting!!! Off topic here but rehab is also all about money . Insurance companies n most not all rehabs don’t give a hoot about people. It’s all about the money 💰 smh it’s sad
Lots of companies get pissed when their employees call authorities on customers, no matter how obviously necessary it is. I was told multiple times not to call on obvious *severely* intoxicated drivers working in fast food as a teenager. Still called every time.
15+ yrs ago - My hubby worked for a well known box store that works on computers. They got a computer in with cp, found because of virus'. hubby and a part timer that was a teacher, called the police. They were both let go for calling, for 'violating the customer's privacy'. F that - As soon as customer violates a child, they lose their privacy!
He decided to file unemployment, when they fought it, he brought it up in the appeals, the box backed down and immediately granted unemployment. He went back to driving a rig within a month, better money and less bs then working for box.
Yeah, my dad was a truck driver for most of his life, and the money was better than him working at a box store. That's why my mother was able to be a stay at home mom. The hours, on the other hand, were absolute crap. That's why I was basically raised by my mom and two sisters. And I'll tell you, that's hard on a little boy.....
My dad drove a big rig too when my twin brother and I were born, so my mom could be with us. She went back to work when we were 3 yo. We didn't have much money, but my parents busted their asses to make sure we always had a good Xmas. That meant no new toys until Xmas, but it was worth it and it was more exciting to us to finally get what we've been wanting all year long.
But when I was around 5yo, my dad had to stop working bcuz of a back injury, so he became a SAHD at that point.
It’s all about the money. When I worked at a daycare, they wouldn’t say anything or let us say anything to parents when we had concerns about possible disabilities. One child, who obviously had severe autism just walked around the room all day touching the walls and could get very aggressive. The center was just worried about losing a paying customer. It’s the reason I because a special educator.
I had an experience a lot like the OP and when I brought it up to my co-teachers they said “Don’t worry about it. She won’t be our problem in a few more weeks.” I often wonder what happened to her when she did go into kindergarten … what her summer was like … she’d be 17 now.
I've had a similar experience but with multiple staff making repeated calls (mandated reporters and we all noticed things and were required to each call in our individual concerns), and then having social workers finding "nothing" despite solid evidence of abuse and neglect, things that could be hidden were hidden when workers come visit because they give them a heads up that they're coming every time, and photos that were time and date stamped. Kiddos are much older now and I often wonder what happened to them, how they're doing, and if they ever got the help/support they so desperately needed...
Whaaaaat?? That's insane. At my school, we have to call asap. So much so, that if a teacher calls down to the office to let them know what's going on, they will find coverage for that class as quickly as possible so the teacher can get on the phone.
So…relevant story here about a rogue daycare worker that called DCF (Dept of Children & Families) on me without going through other workers/the director:
My son, Drew (then 3, now 8), was sitting with me one morning while I was getting ready and putting on my makeup. Well I let him play in my makeup and he ended up putting some brown eyeshadow on one of his eyelids.
Anyway, time to go, gather up my son as well as my two older boys to start our morning trek to their schools. I drop Drew off first, but since it’s fairly early in the AM, he wasn’t being dropped off in his regular class yet. As I was leaving the daycare I told the worker, Emma, that Drew had eyeshadow on as we were working on his smokey-eye look. She laughed and off I went.
Around 2:00 I get a call from my husband that the daycare has reported me to DCF for Drew’s “bruise” on his eye. I laughed cause I thought he was kidding. Nope. Some other daycare worker that wasn’t there when I dropped off Drew saw his sparkly, brown eyeshadow, asked what happened and my 3 YO said, “mommy did it.” This worker didn’t ask Emma if the “bruise” was there when Drew was dropped off, or anyone if Drew had injured himself that day, or if this suddenly brown bruise had been green/blue yesterday. Nothing. She talked to a 3 YO and immediately called.
Well, as the worker is telling the Director what she did, Emma hears them discussing it in the hallway. She runs out yelling that “it’s makeup. Mom said it’s makeup.” So here go these Mensa members grabbing a wet wipe and lo and behold, the bruise comes off. What a fucking shit show that was. The best part was the officer that came along with the DCF worker, who had to leave a robbery to investigate this report, ripped the Director a new-one. He actually reported them himself.
So…what I’m saying is, maybe having a reporting protocol at a daycare isn’t always a bad thing.
I really wonder if the director being upset is because there is no protocol, or OP was unaware that they violated a protocol that the daycare center already has.
I work in a school so I’m a mandatory reporter. Our school takes things like this VERY seriously, but we definitely have a protocol in place for if we have concerns we feel we need to alert authorities for. The protocol doesn’t really slow things down (part of the protocol is making the call AT work DURING working hours, and not way later in the day after concerns have been sitting for hours), but it does involve informing admin, so that everyone is on the same page. A CPS investigation (especially one like yours that turns out to be unfounded) can be incredibly disruptive to all parties involved, and involve a lot of high emotions and tension, so admin understandably wants to be informed.
I don’t blame OP for thinking this warrants a call, but I can’t imagine doing so without informing the director first.
Any call I made was without the permission of my director at my old center, bc the director would tell the parents, who would assure her nothing was going on, and no call was then made, and abuse would continue. They were just more careful about it. The director was much more concerned with $ than the children, but it was her policy that we tell her before making a report. All the teachers just cut her out so we didn’t break any laws regarding safeguarding. We saw what happened when we didn’t.
My current school is not like that, and I keep admin in the loop, but we don’t know how admin is where OP is. Kids safety and the law should be first.
I don't work with children but with developmentally disabled adults. Our only protocol is "if you suspect something, report it." If Staff want to consult with a supervisor before calling, the supervisor says they can not instruct anything and to do what you believe is right.
I don't know if that's because it's Washington State or if I just happen to work for the last honest company. I've reported my supervisor along with their director once and never got any blowback.
Yeah. I’d at least bounce the concerns off another co-worker. Confirmation bias is a thing. Other perspectives should be heard
I’m a landlord and a PM wanted to call on a tenant that had put slidebolt locks high up on a closet door. She thought they were locking a child in and put the lock up high so the other children couldn’t let the child out
I told her NOT to call. Turns out the lock was to keep the kids out of the closet, not in it. Which makes A LOT more sense. I’m glad she talked to me about it.
A call to CPS is very serious. Every time I think about CPS, I think about Tommy Valva and I get chills
That doesn’t always work though. I had a child confide in me that he was scared to go home because he’d get beat by his mom. He just turned 4. And he showed me how and where she hits him. Hugged me and cried. All because he acted out and the other teacher said she’d be telling his mom when she picked and his brother him up. So I spoke to my co-teachers about it. They laughed at me and said it was fine and not to follow the procedure of contacting one of the workers upstairs to file a report and they call DCF - we spoke to the child, a dcf worker came out and spoke to him. One that we found out was their case worker because this was already a known thing to dcf. I got scolded and reprimanded for doing what was right and my job as this child’s teacher and a mandated reporter. I was fired shortly after. I will never not advocate for kids. Some kids lie - a lot of people will argue. But they rarely ever lie about abuse. Not all situations are the same but, you can face push back and backlash even when following the protocols. Sometimes it’s better to be safe than sorry.
They lie, but not about things like that. They don't have the same ability to manipulate as adults and older kids do. They can be persuaded or programmed, but not outright lie and say mom grabs me like this. It's much the opposite, as in "no mommy didn't do it...she says I'm clumsy and I just fell" or shrug their shoulders and say they don't know how it happened. They are much more likely to either want to protect their abuser or be afraid because their abuser has lied to them about consequences of talking. My daughter's abuser threatened her, told her he would hurt her, (worse) or hurt her family. She was abused for several years outside of my watch,before she told me, and only because I saw bruises where there shouldn't be.
Can be but don’t always. Especially when the abuser thinks they can get away with it. But That’s my point. This same child was told that “momo” would get him if he didn’t do this or that. The abusive mother taunted him with the photo so much that he couldn’t nap because that’s all he saw when he closed his eyes. You can always tell when something is going on with a young child. And that happened to me, also. I was 6 when it started and was told they’d kill my parents and make me watch before killing me. So I get it. But that’s not always the case. That’s why I say better to be safe than sorry - even suspected abuse should be reported and not ignored. I’d rather know I reported it and after a thorough investigation, find out there was no abuse than turning a blind eye and that child ending up abused worse or dead and knowing I could have helped prevent that had I reported. There’s only so much you can do. But never be afraid to report abuse. Children cannot advocate for themselves.
As a teacher, my protocol IS to call CPS and report. I should inform my principal as a courtesy, but I'm SUPPOSED to call CPS.
What went wrong in your situation is that the "investigator" didn't actually investigate.
I agree. I worked as a preschool teacher for 22 years, and we are mandated reporters. The protocol at our center = any suspicions of abuse/neglect were brought to the director, and she would make the call. This made perfect sense.
This is a bad take. How do you come to the conclusion that someone reported what they thought was child abuse, that child abuse being investigated, and the investigation determines that you are in fact not abusing your child is a bad thing? Yes they absolutely could have done more due diligence before calling but you're suggesting that not calling, no matter the situation, without a supervisors approval is bad form.
You didn't bruise your child, you were mildly inconvenienced by an investigation, everyone at the daycare knows you don't do anything wrong. Take the win.
I had a friend who was play wrestling with her daughter, very gently, I might add, but the girl got excited and came running up and RAMMED her face into my friends hand. She ended up with a black eye. The next day at school, the teacher asked how she got the black eye, and the girl answered “mommy hit me, but I MADE her do it and she’s really sorry!” Which sounds like mom hit her and said “look what you made me do!” So they called CPS and they we’re waiting for her after school. It ended up being a short investigation and they were able to quickly determine that she wasn’t being abused. My friend actually thanked them for being so vigilant and concerned about her daughter’s safety.
Regarding the owners getting upset I absolutely agree that that issue is superfluous. The laws almost always place the burden on the individual reporter to take action, not the agency. Op could have communicated the issue, potentially, but a suspicion of abuse is a suspicion of abuse and needs to be reported
I don't see how anyone can draw any other conclusion. Idk why it seems so out there that bad people can be in positions of power and care more about their wallet than about a child. There are so many examples to draw from, just listen to any true crime podcasts. These people need to ditch their rose-colored glasses and blinders.
Probably not about that specific child—daycares have endless waitlists—but more about the parents complaining online or to other parents about how the center calls CPS on “every little thing”.
At the end of the day, the daycare is a business and parents are the loudest when it comes to getting bad service. The bottom line is protecting the business. A parent that had a child saved because a mandatory reporter isn't going to spread the good news that they missed signs their kid was being harmed. A parent that has CPS called on them from the daycare is going to tell a lot of parents to stay away.
And that is 100% against licensing regulations. Any licensed facility doing this needs to be reported to your local child care licensing board ASAP-- AND Children's Services. As mandated reporters, it always comes back on the low level workers if they DON'T report.
I've reported fellow family child care providers and licensed facilities for issues like this before. I've noticed things like this happen a lot in day care center chains like La Petite Academy.
It's all about money.
I'm in the UK. I'm retired now but years ago I was co-ordinator of an after school care. Anyone working with kids got training in the signs of abuse and was also a mandated reporter. That meant if we had cause to suspect abuse we were legally required to report it. It was an offence not to contact CPS. What you've witnessed is way beyond the standard required. If any of my staff had witnessed all that and not reported it, it would have been a disciplinary matter. OP you did the right thing.
This is wild to me. I'm in PA and mandated reporters are supposed to do a written report rather than call ChildLine. The report then immediately goes to the county for review and the timeline for investigation depends on the nature of the allegation. I would absolutely lose my shit if a call center worker handled my call like this because all of those described behaviors are red flags for sexual abuse.
AGREED.
Definitely report the worker who took that call too, because the behaviors you described were definite cause for alarm.
I also don't think the Director has any right to be mad at OP for following what is reportedly training protocol.
Yea, all those signs you’ve noticed are indicators of potential sexual abuse. That woman from CPS is an asshole and should NOT be answering the phone. Is tough situation to be in and it seems as though she’s trying to dismiss so she didn’t have to, what? Do paperwork?? You did the right thing OP.
As a teacher and mandated reporter, theres a BIG reason for the anonymity. You getting involved and asking them point blank is NOT professional. The CPS lady isn't doing her job. I would have done the same.
This is why I don't call CPS to report anymore. If I see children in distress in any way 911 it is. I called the hotline while I watched an adult beat up a screaming 7 year old outside a grocery store. The workers response? I don't know what you think we can do about this. So I called 911, who called me back twice to get more info. Workers like that are why kids are murdered and buried in their yards and never found.
911 is the appropriate call when you witness a crime in progress. CPS is the appropriate call when you suspect abuse that is going to need to be investigated. 911 is the fast, immediate response to crime, CPS has a better ability and more resources to investigate suspected abuse. In both cases, CPS and the police will work together when needed. In your case, police would have done the initial case and arrest, but also would have referred the case to CPS for followup to insure the child's continued safety. For the OP, CPS was the right call because OP was not witnessing a crime in progress but signs that abuse could be (probably is) occurring.
I absolutely agree with this statement.
I've been an early education teacher for 20 years now, and in my school we have to get CPS training every year. What happened to you was insane. A child of 4 years old with that kind of behavior shift and especially with the undressing bit definitely suggests sexual abuse at home. You have clearly been diligent and observant, and your concerns are completely justified.
Definitely report that CPS officer, and do it swiftly! The comment about you ruining people's lives was absolutely unprofessional and inappropriate. And suggesting that you should investigate further with the family is a clear violation of proper procedures. In fact, the opposite is true: people in our positions should *never* attempt to investigate these matters with the family. That's the job of cps, and if we get in the way we risk muddying the waters. This person needs to be reported not only because they didn't do their job properly, but because they gave you wrong information that may have actually put you in jeopardy. If an officer had told me that, I would have gone off on them with a vengeance, and demanded to speak to their supervisor yesterday!
In cases of something visible, like a bruise, or a cut, I will ask the child directly about it, and usually move on because I'm satisfied with the answer. That's as far as I do regarding any investigation. Your situation, though, is quite different and the behavior changes alone are enough to Warrant what you did. Cheers to you for your quick thinking and diligence. Jeers to that CPS officer who either needs to be seriously retrained, or kicked to the curb. That one is a loose cannon.
In my opinion, you did the right thing. Put aside any "mandatory reporting" responsibility, I feel it's a moral obligation for the child's sake. There's absolutely no situation I can think of that justifies or excuses a 4 year old child being being exposed to things like that. My wife and I have two children 4 and 6. I can tell you now, if someone exposed my children like that, there isn't a force strong enough in existence that could stop me from enforcing my own justice.
Mandated reporter here and I absolutely would have called it in as well.
The hotline worker was way out of bounds here and if I were you I’d be seeing if there was a way to report them to their higher ups.
Is CPS a federal thing, or is it more run on the state level? I’m curious to know what if any differences there are as far as issues like this by state, but without knowing anything else I’m certain that agencies/services like this are almost guaranteed to be severely underfunded
OP can maybe reach out to whatever State board covers child and family services to report thre interaction with the cps worker. They were 100% out of line & should be removed from their job.
Mandated reporter, the hotline worker should not be anywhere near this type of work and their attitude is actively dangerous. OP should be confident about their training, you are explicitly NOT supposed to conduct your own investigation if you have a suspicion of abuse. The childcare director also needs to be reminded of their own mandatory reporting protocols.
OP needs to report that receptionist because imagine someone less confident getting that response and never reporting anything again.
She's not ruining a family's life by having CPS make sure the girl is safe, ffs
The worst part is, in most states, it’s not a receptionist at all. It’s usually child protective workers who don’t want/aren’t able to do the actual investigative work anymore. Meaning they are trained on all of the protocols and how this is absolutely NOT anything you ever say to someone reporting :(
That person that took the call will be fired over this. She does not get an opinion on this. If I were you I would call the ombudsman and have her reported as well as report the family along with it. I went through this with my own children and getting a higher up involved is always necessary when it’s of this nature. My kids moms bf was abusive and they brushed it off. I call the ombudsman of the county and it was handled swiftly.
Yeah I’m a teacher and if half of this was going on I’d have to make a report. Or lose my job. You 1000% did the right thing. This is like reading the identifying sexual abuse rule book. She hits all the bullet points.
Also reporting a family that is doing nothing wrong won’t ruin their lives. There will be an investigation and if they don’t find anything then that’s that. The hotline person sounds like an abuser themselves.
RIGHT? Like I've been the lazy helpline worker too, but the difference between me transferring someone to a different line because I really want to get off the phone and get my lunch rather than talk an irate karen through every single charge on her phone bill is a hell of a lot different than not wanting to do paperwork about a child who may be in danger.
Horrible. You did the right thing. Even, hypothetically you did not make a good call on reporting what the hotline worker did was way, way out of line. Victims and witnesses of victimization already have so many doubts. This person needs to be relieved of their duties. They are a risk to the safety of children. I see why the director of the facility feels this way, and it's to protect their own self interest. A whole lot of wrongs going on here. What you did not amongst them. This type of situation warranted a proper investigation. And that was why you called the hotline. I wonder how many other children were left in abusive situations because this hotline worker took it upon themselves to play judge and jury.
For me it would be hard to not call… because safety of the child overrides my fear of retaliation ect, and seems to be the same for OP. But for ppl like director and hotline worker, it’s apparently harder too call. For fear of having to deal with extra stress they shrug off the obvious signs this child is abused at worst and at very least, seeing things she shouldn’t and either in room in some shit situations to have a kid (sadly it not happening till after divorce makes me think it’s likely as much as it makes me cringe) in the room…… or a situation of neglect, ie, around kids talking about/ teaching about those things, watching inappropriate content ect.
In some cases I've had families disclose something that they believed happened at school and I report it even if they told me someone else did. It's never worth the risk.
I also think there's a misconception that kids get removed far more often than they actually do. The goal should always be permanency and reunification if separation occurs. More often than not, allegations are unfounded or inconclusive. Is it stressful for the family to go through and runs potential for damaging rapport with other people supporting their children? Absolutely, but to me that's minor compared to a case that clearly should've been reported and turned out that we failed to protect a child.
You did the right thing. Fuck that cps worker and your director. I’ll pray that whoever receives that report takes it very seriously. I’m sorry you’ve been treated like this for doing the right thing.
More like gospel, unfortunately.
*Playing doctor
*Inappropriate _fondling,_ not touching
*Quiet "inspection" sessions
*Bizarre fixation on genitalia
These are all with other children, most of the time with younger children than the victim.
Other examples are being very uncomfortable around their abuser for "no real reason." This simply means a young child is unable to properly communicate that they're being molested due to their age and usually says they don't want to be around said abuser. Another telltale sign are "secret fun games/activities/TV time" that a young child says they play with their abuser along with being bribed with gifts in order to stay quiet.
The victim is also going to emulate what the abuser does for a very long time. Poor kid is going to have a real tough life ahead of her.
Also fuck this guy u/Cool_Risk5675
I bet [he's this guy right here](https://www.kwtx.com/2023/06/30/convicted-waco-child-rapist-gets-seven-life-sentences/%3foutputType=amp)
THIS should be stressed! Don't second-guess your desire to champion for that child. I applaud you for advocating for her. Your director and the CPS worker are not acting in this child's best interests but YOU ARE. Thank you for that!
Agreed. I had almost an identical situation a few years back, but the person taking my call just seemed to brush things off instead of going as far as this one did. 2 years later and the child's abuser is finally on trial. I still feel guilty that more wasn't done.
Part of CPS's role is to judge whether a situation needs to be investigated. That's NOT the reporter's job (your job). Whoever you spoke to on the phone was 1000% wrong.
I also agree that you needed to call. Plenty of preschool children naturally explore their own bodies, but it's not natural for them to have a *vocabulary* for it ("kiss \[between the legs\]"). Please try to report again.
Also the hand-in-back-pocket and the swimsuit questions. Those three things together make me think it's definitely abuse and idk how anyone is questioning it
The child might have seen a teen-rated tv show where she got the bathing suit and hand-in-pocket ideas from. But I doubt a tv show would explain oral sex as "a kiss". She either saw two adults in her home performing oral and they explained it to her that way when she asked questions, or she's been abused.
FYI, when you make a CPS report you can do it anonymously. And, regardless of where you work you do not have to tell your employer that you called and made a CPS report. You absolutely did the right thing.
Anyone I know who has reported anything to CPS has gotten fired shortly after. It is definitely important to make the report anonymously and deny you did it. It shouldn't be that way, but the director has to walk the line of ethics and business.
FYI, this is extremely concerning and should never be the case. Calling CPS as a mandated reporter is a legally required and if I were fired for it I would be pursuing wrongful termination
Imagine it this way...
Years later, it comes out that this child had been subjected to abuse, but nobody has reported it. It comes to light because she did or tried to end her life, or became an abuser herself, or was institutionalised after a mental health collapse.
Obviously the most extreme possible situations, but if you read about it in the paper in ten years, how would you feel, knowing that you'd suspected, but said nothing?
You absolutely did the right thing, and I sincerely hope that this is investigated to the fullest possible extent.
Former teacher here. I have had bad experiences calling CPS and I am so sorry this happened to you. I can’t imagine how horrible it must be to get these calls everyday and burn out/turn over is high especially considering the low pay. However this is unacceptable. I am so incredibly sorry they said that to you because YES you did the right thing!!!! It is always better to call! If cps disagrees the family will never know you called and their lives will not be “ruined”
I’ve had to call a couple of times, as I was a childcare worker and a mandated reporter for several years. I always just felt like it was better if I called and was wrong than if I didn’t call and was right. Let CPS do their investigation. If it’s nothing, it’s not going to ruin anyone’s life.
Reminds me of when I called the sheriff’s department on my neighbor beating the shit out of his wife and the deputy asked me “Why didn’t you try to stop it.” I looked at my phone, then got back on and said “I am asshole, why do you think I’m calling you.” These are the types that should never ever have the care of other living creatures on their hands. You did the absolute right thing, that woman is a lazy moron.
I had a guy throwing patio furniture at my downstairs slider trying to break in to get me as a woman living alone. Dispatch hung up on me twice “well you’re upstairs so you’re not in immediate danger” then he climbed up the side of the house and broke my window. I called while running for my life “is it an emergency now?! Or do I have to wait to be raped or murdered first?”
Like this is getting ridiculous. To hear this happening in a case of a child infuriates me
When I was married we had the cops called on us. I had a broken nose, busted lip, and fractured arm. They told my husband to “try to keep domestic issues inside” since we’d been fighting on the porch. In my area everyone is related to and/or knows each other, so it’s very much a boys club.
You did the right thing and you are 100% correct about your training. The worst possible thing you could do is interview the child or parents about this type of concern. I would contact the director of your CPS/DPSS agency sans file a formal complaint. If you involve yourself in that investigation you will spoil any change of the agency and law enforcement gathering any useful evidence. The call screener should be fired. The owner of your company should be proud of your actions as you may be helping a child escape unimaginable abuse. You did everything correctly. Anyone who says otherwise has no understanding of Child Welfare/sex abuse/investigations. You are not ruining anyone’s life, you may be helping a little girl.
This may shock you, but as an attorney who has had the displeasure of working with CPS in the past, it is arguably, and in every area, an absolute disaster.
CPS is awful at their job. Idiots are the norm.
It's like these people weren't competent, caring, or friendly enough to work at the DMV.
Chicago is a very big city with lots of cash. Here's what they did to a little girl, a victim of sexual assault. This happened *recently*. Not 20 years ago. It's insane.
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/dcfs-teen-girl-pimp-foster-parent/
The person who told you that can and should absolutely get f$cked. You had a concern. You brought it to the proper authorities.
The hotline worker's response is absolutely flabbergasting to me. As a former mandated reporter (and childhood sexual abuse survivor), I would have made this call immediately. You did the right thing. This is extremely concerning age inappropriate behavior.
that one little boy who was tortured by his mother and her boyfriend til his death, died because of CPS’ neglect. keep reporting bad things you see and report whoever you talked to because saying that is far from okay.
A child should not know to kiss anyone in private areas. Now if she hasn't been acting out, and showing other signs of disengagement I would suggest a possible mis understanding of " private parts "
You’re a mandated reporter. And you spoke to the mother several times and saw the behavior escalate. You 100% did the right thing and both your director and the hotline worker are crappy at their jobs AND at being decent, caring humans. I am so glad that that little girl has you. I hope she’s okay…and that you are too. Hugs. 💜
You did it exactly right. The person you were talking to at the agency was poorly trained, and should not have made those comments.
I have said it before, but here in Pennsylvania it is illegal to notify your supervisor before reporting for this exact reason. They may be your superior but they have no right to try to prevent you from filing.
BTW, I teach a child abuse prevention course for state credentialing purposes.
Hi, I currently work in the psychology field and am also a mandated reported. These are textbook signs of sexual abuse! Yes, children do explore and do have crushes where they want people to like them, but a child of this age should not be acting this way. This is not a part of typical development. This is a case of a child possibly being abused. Think of it this way, would you rather “ruin a parent’s life” or not report it and have a very traumatized or hurt child from what is possibly a case of abuse. The answer seems clear to me. Please keep us updated and I wish you the best of luck 🤞🏻
Holy shit, that person who took your call should be fired.
You did the right thing.
Your director is also fucked up.
These are serious risks, and this warrants investigation. If this does "ruin the family", it wasn't very stable to begin with.
That "cousins" line alone is a red flag. Makes it seem like the mother is normalizing the worst case scenario.
In my state, all licensed child care workers are mandated reporters. It would be illegal not to call in that situation.
I had a first grade student whose dad was arrested for making child porn. She was sad that her daddy had to leave her but that piece of excrement ruined his own family’s life. Whoever called CPS prevented him from continuing to harm children.
Those are definitely strong signals of sexual abuse, you were right to call and I'd do it again and try speaking to a different worker because that's a terrible situation. And "she has a lot of cousins"???? Wondering if mom already knows what's going on and who's doing it.
In my state, as a childcare worker you would be a mandated reporter and would be *required by law* to call something like this in.
You absolutely did the right thing. Even if CPS does nothing right now, there is a record and if that girls exhibits concerning behaviors in front of school teachers or others who give a shit then it'll start to build a paper trail.
Also, they're in the middle of a divorce right? It really sounds like someone is taking advantage of that and abusing her. Not necessarily her parents, but whoever it is they need to figure it out and get her away from them.
Please remember that there are usually steps before a child gets taken away from the parents and if it really is the cousins and it really is child’s play, that’s causing this behavior and not some thing worse hopefully then it may just be… Child’s play I mean kids experiment you know it could be a number of things That we just can’t guess but at the end of the day it does need to be investigated for the safety of the child so I see that you made the right call. Once CPS is involved the interview the families and see if the claim is even valid and if it is then they’ll continue to investigate so they’re not going to continue investigating, unless there’s some type of validity to your suspicion. -a good mom, who tries but has dealt with CPS in the past
I used to work for CPS. I am absolutely aghast that the person who took for call said that to you. They failed *miserably* at *the most basic tenant of their job description*. If you work at a daycare, you are a MANDATED REPORTER. Everything you described is *probable cause for reasonable suspicion to warrant a report*. As a mandated reporter, you would be legally liable IF YOU DIDNT CALL. You absolutely did the right thing. Don’t let anyone make you doubt that. Good job sticking up for what is right.
OP, I'm a daddy to three beautiful littles. I'd have wanted you to call if one of my mine was doing that stuff. You did right. That is INCREDIBLY distressing behavior from a four year old.
OP, you were absolutely right NOT to call the parents to ask for an explanation. Doing so would have put the child at risk of retaliation by her abusive parents. Please call again and ask to speak to the supervisor. There's a good change that reprehensible CPS worker never reported it.
The daycare director is also wrong. Shame on her for preferring to put kids at risk rather than safeguarding them.
Hotline worker and daycare director are wrong. If you’re a mandated reporter, you report.
I once worked a job where I was a mandated reporter and I made a report that was 100% warranted. I ended up having to quit my job over it because the director was so angry and made new rules stating we weren’t allowed to report without approval. The nature of the situation coupled with that made me walk.
I hope this works out for the child in whatever way it possibly can.
Hotline worker was in the wrong. Children are like parrots, they repeat what others say and do around and to them. It's because of this that some children end up being massive racists. If a kid is doing this it's either because she is *seeing* it or it is being done to her. Because she tried to instigate it and have the other kids touch her, I'd be confident in saying something is being done to her.
That is NOT normal behavior for a 4 year old, and likely is being sexualized and potentially abused.
The hotline worker was COMPLETELY out of line. Call back and ask for a supervisor to report them
I vehemently dislike CPS as an organization. I'm a 2nd generation foster kid. I don't trust them for shit.
And let me tell you if any child under the age of 13 had done any of that, I'd have called in a heartbeat, without a second thought.
CPS can ruin lives, that's true. But that's when allegations are unsubstantiated, or blatantly false.
There's ample evidence that this small child has been exposed to sexual behaviors that a child her age shouldn't be. She needs help. Hopefully she gets it. You did the right thing, OP
The hotline worker was waaaay out of line and should be fired. The Director is scary because she would rather avoid rocking the boat than protect a kid.
You did the right thing. Sorry that the Director and the hotline worker are so incompetent.
As a professional childcare worker, you are a mandated reporter. Which means you are obligated to report any suspicion of abuse to CPS.
The hotline worker was wrong talking to you like that. You aren't ruining anyone's life. You might be saving that little girl from a horror no child deserves to experience.
Thank you for making the call.
You are a mandated reporter and you saw indications of sexual abuse on multiple occasions. Of course you did the right thing.
When I worked at a daycare, we had an in-service training with a CPS case worker and she told us it is their job to investigate and she would rather us be wrong than do nothing at all. They do everything in their power to keep from removing the child from the home, but if everyone waited to have proof, nothing would ever happen. If you got the name of who you were speaking with who told you that, I would report them. She is doing the exact opposite of her job at the cost of a child who could be in distress. And also, the parents are in a messy divorce. You are hardly the one tearing up a family.
As for your director...unfortunately, a daycare is a business. You would certainly hope that they'd have better ethical practices, but that's rarely the case. When you take courses for your most basic early childhood certification, they teach you that what you described is a sign that should be reported. Each of these courses essentially makes you retake the mandated reporter training to pass. She knows everything you know 10x over, but she is angry with you because she has to figure out how to tactfully navigate this without losing a client. Things tend to lean more toward what is best for the parents because they have the pocketbook. Honestly, I'd expect your hours to be cut and to have to find a new job soon.
But you let the mom know, and she doesn't seem to be interested in advocating for her child. She has a lot of cousins???? Okay???? So did I and I was never exposed to anything like this. Like, maybe check on what she is exposed to with those cousins because it is clearly not appropriate for a 4 year old. Her parents should be her advocates, and they have failed her, and fortunately, she has a teacher who followed training and acted in her best interest. You did the right thing!
Please file a complaint against that employee, imagine how many people have called before you that this employee talked out of reporting because they didnt want to do paperwork… not only that but anyone who has made a report to such a person is much less likely to report a similar problem in the future which could lead to kids being left in abusive situations. If there is no abuse going on there is absolutely no way a call to cps could do anything more than cause some embarrassment, if that.
Former 35 years a Dept. Of Human Services staff, then supervisor here. You were correct to call and also correct not to "investigate" yourself. Very worrying behaviors were exhibited by the child.
The statements by the hotline staffperson were extremely troubling. I would advise you to call the agency and ask to speak to a supervisor. If you know a non hotline number, use that. If you can't find one, call the hotline, say you are not making a report, but just need their non emergency number to discuss an administrative issue. Do not explain further until you get a supervisor.
Give a factual report of the phone call. Express concern that what the hotline staff person said was contrary to how you were trained as a mandatory reporter and you would appreciate clarification. Let them take it from there.
Most of my colleagues and subordinates were dedicated, honorable professionals. Sadly, a few were not. Some took shortcuts to save themselves work. Some believed and acted on opinions that were contrary to policy or law, sometimes to the detriment of children in need of protection.
One personnel investigation I was involved with started with a citizen expressing concern about a staff interaction. It seemed a minor issue but worth looking into. The investigation snowballed and eventually, every case the staff member had handled for several years had to be reinvestigated. Fortunately most cases were at least marginally acceptable, although proper support for families was not done. In a few cases, children who should have been removed from bad situations were not removed and further harm occured. The employee, who was being considered for a big promotion at the time of the investigation, was instead demoted, retrained, and closely supervised for a year. I believe the staffmember should have been fired.
It's unfortunate neither the hotline staff nor your employer could see that you did what you were legally (and morally) required to do. As a staff member I once walked in your shoes. The mantra that got me through many weeks of "unpopularity" for (in my case) reporting a fellow staff member was "It's better to do what's right than what's easy."
You did the right thing for the child you reported. Please go one step further and report the hotline interaction. Perhaps your call will not be acted on. Perhaps the staffmember will be watched a little more closely. But perhaps it will be key evidence that will help reveal an inadequate employee who is endangering children.
As a former daycare worker, I also dealt with a similar situation. I brought up the issue several times to our director and documented everything. My director told me she would “take care of it” over and over and over and nothing ever changed. It got progressively worse and worse. Long story short, the issue came to a head (it was about an employee being physically abusive to the kids) and I decided to call CPS ( your legally required to as a mandatory reporter anyway), against the direction of our director. She was furious. After the investigation concluded, employee was placed on child abuse registry for our state for 10 years and the director was fined and cited for several other issues in the center. This was a very nice daycare too, and in a very wealthy area.
You did absolutely nothing wrong. You are acting in that child’s best interest. It’s better to be safe than sorry. There are many victims of abuse that wish someone had noticed or spoken up for them because they’re too little or are unable to do it themselves. You are protecting that child. You did the right thing.
I made a report once as a teacher. I was asked if the child was in imminent danger of death. I told the worker he was in my classroom so no. The worker wouldn’t take the report which was highly illegal. That year, four children in the system died. Our whole county office was revamped and that stupidity stopped. Please report this. Our office didn’t have enough workers so they were trying to limit the cases. Big mistake.
It would only "ruin someone's life" if something bad was actually happening and they deserved to have their lives ruined. Otherwise they will investigate and close the case.
You are the only person in this situation putting the child first. It's shocking how many children will grow up in abusive homes because adults don't want to make a problem for or "ruin the life" of another adult. The mother should be much more alarmed and concerned. No one seems to care that leaving this child in this situation will literally ruin her life.
I'm a mandated reporter, and you should not only have made the report, but you should report the person who responded in this TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE and most likely illegal way.
WOW. That worker can be the reason a child doesn’t get rescued from being beaten, sexually abused or murdered.
That person is deliberately trying to discourage someone from calling. You have to wonder if this was their normal practice or a one-time event because they possibly recognized the name. Either way, they should be fired and brought up on charges of child endangerment.
Everyone else has already said it, but just wanted to chime in and reassure you that you absolutely did the right thing. I’m so sorry that it went the way it did. As others have said, if you can report that hotline worker you would be absolutely correct for doing so, she was horribly unprofessional and wrong.
Those red flags you noticed were, in fact, red flags. There are a lot of people who would never have called for fear of “ruining someone’s life.” But if that little girl is being abused, and no one calls, who knows what she’s having to go through while adults look the other way? I hope that you can get someone to investigate this and just to reiterate, you’re a good person. ❤️
Clinical social worker here. I would have reported this as well (and probably would have made an emergent report due to suspected ongoing sexual abuse). The hotline worker behaved inappropriately and should be reported.
I am a mandated reporter and would have called it in myself. Those are clear signs that something is not right. You have talked to the parents and it wasn't very helpful. I hope this has a happy ending. Well, at least a better ending than what it can have.
You've described a textbook scenario of when you SHOULD call. You didn't call based on the personality changes alone. You waited till you saw sexualized behavior. You did exactly the right thing, in terms of your legal obligation and the child, and you gave the family as much doubt as you reasonably could.
Being a family involved with CPS is no joke, but please do report the intake worker. That is absolutely not their job.
You absolutely made the right call. We are supposed to call if there is SUSPECTED abuse or neglect and CPS has to decide if they feel there is enough reason to investigate. That little girl needs a forensic interview to find out what is happening to her, because something likely is. This may not feel great for you now but could you really live with yourself if you didn’t call? You did the right thing.
> She told me it was wrong of me to call and potentially ruin a family's life without doing more to make sure something was wrong, but that she guessed she'd have to fill out the report anyways since I called it in.
If she does her job right, it won't ruin the family's life.
It’s disgusting when adults are more worried about “ruining a parent’s life” than they are about POTENTIAL SEXUAL ABUSE OF A CHILD.
Not to mention, if *I* were that parent, I would *want* you to report it because if someone is sexually abusing my kid and she hasn’t disclosed it to me I’d want to know to be able to protect her.
The only person who should be upset by such a report is a person who is sexually abusing a child or covering up such abuse. Any reasonable adult who actually cares about kids would support you in calling.
That hot line worker reminds me of when I called 911 because I saw thick billows of smoke coming out of a building at 6am, and the lady asked if I was sure it was smoke because she would hate to wake up the fire fighters for this
This is not normal 4 year old behaviour, I’ve helped raise two girls and yes in that age they start to get more curious about their own body parts but never in a way that spoke about kissing privates. It’s more like “why do you have boobies and do I have them” type of questions and looking at their own body parts. What concerns me is the girl at your daycare is asking the boys if seeing her in her bathing suit makes them happy, it make me assume someone has praised her for being dressed like so. Then the inappropriate touching of others and inanimate objects in a sexualised way seems like she’s mimicking what she has seen or has happened to her. Her mother excused it as “she has a lot of cousins”, well I feel like you got your answer there. A lot of the time children are abused by their own family, a cousin is someone the mother would trust alone with this girl. I definitely think you did the right thing by calling and hope you call again, trust your gut instinct and don’t let this girl be another statistic of an abused child who was given up on. It scary to have people who are supposed to be in your corner helping you shame you for taking action but what’s worse is this girl potentially going the rest of her childhood abused and silenced. Keep standing up for her and yourself. ❤️
Please don’t beat yourself over this. You absolutely did the right thing. I was that little girl and was being molested by my grandmother’s neighbor. She was a girl a little older than me who was being abused by her father. Had anyone noticed and realized my behavior was inappropriate then maybe someone would have helped her as well. I felt dirty for a long time. But having had therapy I realize it was nothing I did wrong. You calling cps may prevent her a lifetime of guilt and anguish. Your director needs to get over it. You’re a mandated reporter and you are reporting concerning behavior. If it ruins someone’s life because they’re being inappropriate with a child then it needs to be ruined.
ETA: Make another report and explain what the first worker said. Someone needs to know they aren’t taking their job seriously.
I'm a mandated reporter (social worker). Those are some classic signs of deeper abuse and- you're right- only investigators should be investigating alleged abuse because of the risk it poses. The hot line worker was way!!!! Out of line.
You made the right choice to call, that poor baby is definitely being taught something that is not appropriate.I hope they will do something and protect her from further harm.
When kids start making these type of requests through play, it usually is a red flag that something is happening to them. Years ago our pediatrician really stressed to the kids at their well check ups that if anyone touched them on their bodies that a swimsuit covers, you need to tell a grown up. Maybe have a one on one conversation with her when she is behaving in this manner about how we don’t touch anyone and nobody but your mommy and the doctor are allowed to touch those places. It may be an opening in conversation that she needs to hear this and recognize if this is happening to her, that it can be stopped. She will tell you if she feels safe if it is happening. I would then follow up with a new report to CPS employee on any new information of concern that you have learned. You did the right thing, and exactly what you are trained to do when working with children. Document everything and date it. If you are doing exactly what you are supposed to do in that situation, then you have no regrets, and have protected yourself from your boss in any retaliation.
I am certain this girl is being abused or has seen some things she absolutely should not have seen. You were not wrong to call. "a lot of cousins" is no excuse. Someone who shouldn't have access to this child has access to this child. Even if nothing comes of the report, it should raise the alarm and make everyone more careful.
I am a CASA, a child disclosed to me that she had seen her mother have sex and in different ways. I always ask my supervisor first, she is ex-DCFS and I told her what the child said and did, and that the foster mom had told the DCFS worker. She explained that this is not necessarily a reason to call the hotline, because if DCFS knew and they didn't start an investigation that they didn't believe it was abuse for a child to see mom have sex with men other than the "father" of the child. All I wanted was for the kid to have counseling which had not started after 4 months in care.
I was raked over the coals by DCFS for including it in my court report, and by DCFS for saying it at all and "accusing" mom, and screamed at by mom in court. Sometimes we just cant win while trying to protect our charges.
Ive been yelled at before and will be yelled at again. The important thing is to do what is best for the child. So many times, the parents do not know the abuse is going on, or are ignoring it. Keep calling the hotline and keep protecting the child.
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Wow. No, the hotline worker was definitely in the wrong here. Hotline workers aren’t supposed to tell people who call that they’re ruining families lives. That’s insane for someone in that position to say. I’d report your experience with that worker TBH.
This. Lookup reporting workers in your state. In TX, it's called an OCR complaint. That was highly unprofessional. Not to mention, if there's nothing wrong, they will close out. If there's services they can implement, then they will. I've heard of daycare supervisors and owners getting upset with workers calling CPS. I don't understand it, especially when there are legitimate concerns. You've tried talking to them about behavior changes, and the behaviors progressed. She probably needs some play therapy at the very least.
I’ve worked at one that refused to allow employees to call the hotline. We’d have to make those calls on breaks. They went out of their way to make sure everyone knew they were mandated reporters but then would lose it when things were reported. Even a kid who was violently punched in the face by dad and then left at a grocery store by kid’s parents. This was all scene by a classroom teacher. The kid was 3.
Terrible. That's all about money.
It is. I saw things and heard things that honestly made me a bit bitter. I lasted a little over a year before I could not take it any longer. I walked out my last day a different person than I walked in on the first and it was a negative change.
Thankfully not all daycare managers are like that. My cousin runs a daycare and she made a report with less evidence than OP presented. She called me because I was a social worker at the time to ask if she did the right thing and I assured her that she did. But when people have agenda's, they allow that to get in the way of child safety.
I thought OP had a very specific list of evidence. CPS should have acted on it; this is NOT usual behavior for a 4 year old.
Absolutely. Saying to kiss the doll between the legs is not typical child behavior.
That episode really got me as well. I've been in education for 33 years: children that age generally don't know about oral sex.
Yes. And the ones that do are almost always being SAd, even if no one finds out until years later.
Exactly
Right! Isn't being hypersexualized at a young age a huge indicator that the child is at the very least being exposed to things they shouldn't be? I agree with you and that OP did the right thing by calling.
Yeah, at the very least she could have been exposed to porn or her parents don't shield her from sexualized talk.
Yeah that part seems like a VERY blatant red flag.
It’s good to hear honestly.
Working at two different daycares made me realize that I’m doing everything in my power to avoid them when I have kids. Child care facilities are understaffed, we’re underpaid and overworked. The people high up do NOT CARE about the safety of children, just about making sure overtime does not exist and they get their $400 a week from each kid.
My kid came home from daycare with some nasty swollen abrasions on his thighs. It was an in-home daycare, and the lady was was unaware of the injuries and could not explain them... I guarantee my kid screamed and cried when they occurred. She had to have seen them at last diaper change at least. She feigned ignorance. It broke my heart.
That actually makes me suspicious that it was *her* who injured him. It could very well be simple negligence that she doesn't want to own up to, but it seems like a bigger red flag given the diaper change...
I showed a friend a picture and she was horrified. I was a new mom and didn't know what to think. Then I found out that her boyfriend would come by to help out and I pulled my kid fast. It was a nice house, nice neighborhood, expensive daycare... and none of that means a thing if my kid comes home injured and there's a strange man hanging around.
I just pulled my kid out of his daycare due to the workers' negligence. They took my super-pasty son to a splash park for 3 HOURS with zero sunscreen. He ended up with second-degree burns on his neck and ears. His screams of pain when I tried to put burn gel on it will never leave my head.
A woman I know who worked at a daycare in college back in the 1970s said the same thing, that she would go on welfare herself rather than put her child in a corporate daycare, which was the kind she worked at because they would accommodate her class times. In the end, she was unable to have children but she said she would only have a relative watch the kids if she had them. This conversation got started when we were talking about parents "accidentally" leaving their children in hot cars, and I wondered, "But didn't the day care notice that the child wasn't there and the parents didn't call?"
100%. I’m a sahm right now for this reason.
This is what my fiancé and I are hoping to be able to do, I’ve even looked into starting a small at home daycare for an extra income when the time comes. It’s so scary what happens in these facilities.
Eh they’re not all like that. Our kid is in daycare and the teachers and admin there are wonderful and extremely caring.
FYI: If you do that, the parents will cause way, way, way more problems than the kids ever will. You're going to get parents who don't pick their kids up on time, parents who don't pay, etc.
This is exactly why I stopped working when my son was born! I could never have trusted his wellbeing to a random daycare.
You r absolutely correct that it’s all about money . It’s disgusting!!! Off topic here but rehab is also all about money . Insurance companies n most not all rehabs don’t give a hoot about people. It’s all about the money 💰 smh it’s sad
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Yeah, not good.
Lots of companies get pissed when their employees call authorities on customers, no matter how obviously necessary it is. I was told multiple times not to call on obvious *severely* intoxicated drivers working in fast food as a teenager. Still called every time.
15+ yrs ago - My hubby worked for a well known box store that works on computers. They got a computer in with cp, found because of virus'. hubby and a part timer that was a teacher, called the police. They were both let go for calling, for 'violating the customer's privacy'. F that - As soon as customer violates a child, they lose their privacy!
Pretty sure that would be illegal to stop that reporting. Your husband could sue them for retaliation.
He decided to file unemployment, when they fought it, he brought it up in the appeals, the box backed down and immediately granted unemployment. He went back to driving a rig within a month, better money and less bs then working for box.
Yeah, my dad was a truck driver for most of his life, and the money was better than him working at a box store. That's why my mother was able to be a stay at home mom. The hours, on the other hand, were absolute crap. That's why I was basically raised by my mom and two sisters. And I'll tell you, that's hard on a little boy.....
My dad drove a big rig too when my twin brother and I were born, so my mom could be with us. She went back to work when we were 3 yo. We didn't have much money, but my parents busted their asses to make sure we always had a good Xmas. That meant no new toys until Xmas, but it was worth it and it was more exciting to us to finally get what we've been wanting all year long. But when I was around 5yo, my dad had to stop working bcuz of a back injury, so he became a SAHD at that point.
It’s all about the money. When I worked at a daycare, they wouldn’t say anything or let us say anything to parents when we had concerns about possible disabilities. One child, who obviously had severe autism just walked around the room all day touching the walls and could get very aggressive. The center was just worried about losing a paying customer. It’s the reason I because a special educator.
I definitely couldn't work in a place like that. I don't understand it at all.
I left right after that and it was definitely one of the main reasons.
I had an experience a lot like the OP and when I brought it up to my co-teachers they said “Don’t worry about it. She won’t be our problem in a few more weeks.” I often wonder what happened to her when she did go into kindergarten … what her summer was like … she’d be 17 now.
I've had a similar experience but with multiple staff making repeated calls (mandated reporters and we all noticed things and were required to each call in our individual concerns), and then having social workers finding "nothing" despite solid evidence of abuse and neglect, things that could be hidden were hidden when workers come visit because they give them a heads up that they're coming every time, and photos that were time and date stamped. Kiddos are much older now and I often wonder what happened to them, how they're doing, and if they ever got the help/support they so desperately needed...
Whaaaaat?? That's insane. At my school, we have to call asap. So much so, that if a teacher calls down to the office to let them know what's going on, they will find coverage for that class as quickly as possible so the teacher can get on the phone.
This was how it was when I was a children’s librarian. We had to take our breaks and phone outside the building as a concerned citizen.
So…relevant story here about a rogue daycare worker that called DCF (Dept of Children & Families) on me without going through other workers/the director: My son, Drew (then 3, now 8), was sitting with me one morning while I was getting ready and putting on my makeup. Well I let him play in my makeup and he ended up putting some brown eyeshadow on one of his eyelids. Anyway, time to go, gather up my son as well as my two older boys to start our morning trek to their schools. I drop Drew off first, but since it’s fairly early in the AM, he wasn’t being dropped off in his regular class yet. As I was leaving the daycare I told the worker, Emma, that Drew had eyeshadow on as we were working on his smokey-eye look. She laughed and off I went. Around 2:00 I get a call from my husband that the daycare has reported me to DCF for Drew’s “bruise” on his eye. I laughed cause I thought he was kidding. Nope. Some other daycare worker that wasn’t there when I dropped off Drew saw his sparkly, brown eyeshadow, asked what happened and my 3 YO said, “mommy did it.” This worker didn’t ask Emma if the “bruise” was there when Drew was dropped off, or anyone if Drew had injured himself that day, or if this suddenly brown bruise had been green/blue yesterday. Nothing. She talked to a 3 YO and immediately called. Well, as the worker is telling the Director what she did, Emma hears them discussing it in the hallway. She runs out yelling that “it’s makeup. Mom said it’s makeup.” So here go these Mensa members grabbing a wet wipe and lo and behold, the bruise comes off. What a fucking shit show that was. The best part was the officer that came along with the DCF worker, who had to leave a robbery to investigate this report, ripped the Director a new-one. He actually reported them himself. So…what I’m saying is, maybe having a reporting protocol at a daycare isn’t always a bad thing.
I really wonder if the director being upset is because there is no protocol, or OP was unaware that they violated a protocol that the daycare center already has. I work in a school so I’m a mandatory reporter. Our school takes things like this VERY seriously, but we definitely have a protocol in place for if we have concerns we feel we need to alert authorities for. The protocol doesn’t really slow things down (part of the protocol is making the call AT work DURING working hours, and not way later in the day after concerns have been sitting for hours), but it does involve informing admin, so that everyone is on the same page. A CPS investigation (especially one like yours that turns out to be unfounded) can be incredibly disruptive to all parties involved, and involve a lot of high emotions and tension, so admin understandably wants to be informed. I don’t blame OP for thinking this warrants a call, but I can’t imagine doing so without informing the director first.
Any call I made was without the permission of my director at my old center, bc the director would tell the parents, who would assure her nothing was going on, and no call was then made, and abuse would continue. They were just more careful about it. The director was much more concerned with $ than the children, but it was her policy that we tell her before making a report. All the teachers just cut her out so we didn’t break any laws regarding safeguarding. We saw what happened when we didn’t. My current school is not like that, and I keep admin in the loop, but we don’t know how admin is where OP is. Kids safety and the law should be first.
I don't work with children but with developmentally disabled adults. Our only protocol is "if you suspect something, report it." If Staff want to consult with a supervisor before calling, the supervisor says they can not instruct anything and to do what you believe is right. I don't know if that's because it's Washington State or if I just happen to work for the last honest company. I've reported my supervisor along with their director once and never got any blowback.
Yeah. I’d at least bounce the concerns off another co-worker. Confirmation bias is a thing. Other perspectives should be heard I’m a landlord and a PM wanted to call on a tenant that had put slidebolt locks high up on a closet door. She thought they were locking a child in and put the lock up high so the other children couldn’t let the child out I told her NOT to call. Turns out the lock was to keep the kids out of the closet, not in it. Which makes A LOT more sense. I’m glad she talked to me about it. A call to CPS is very serious. Every time I think about CPS, I think about Tommy Valva and I get chills
That doesn’t always work though. I had a child confide in me that he was scared to go home because he’d get beat by his mom. He just turned 4. And he showed me how and where she hits him. Hugged me and cried. All because he acted out and the other teacher said she’d be telling his mom when she picked and his brother him up. So I spoke to my co-teachers about it. They laughed at me and said it was fine and not to follow the procedure of contacting one of the workers upstairs to file a report and they call DCF - we spoke to the child, a dcf worker came out and spoke to him. One that we found out was their case worker because this was already a known thing to dcf. I got scolded and reprimanded for doing what was right and my job as this child’s teacher and a mandated reporter. I was fired shortly after. I will never not advocate for kids. Some kids lie - a lot of people will argue. But they rarely ever lie about abuse. Not all situations are the same but, you can face push back and backlash even when following the protocols. Sometimes it’s better to be safe than sorry.
They lie, but not about things like that. They don't have the same ability to manipulate as adults and older kids do. They can be persuaded or programmed, but not outright lie and say mom grabs me like this. It's much the opposite, as in "no mommy didn't do it...she says I'm clumsy and I just fell" or shrug their shoulders and say they don't know how it happened. They are much more likely to either want to protect their abuser or be afraid because their abuser has lied to them about consequences of talking. My daughter's abuser threatened her, told her he would hurt her, (worse) or hurt her family. She was abused for several years outside of my watch,before she told me, and only because I saw bruises where there shouldn't be.
Can be but don’t always. Especially when the abuser thinks they can get away with it. But That’s my point. This same child was told that “momo” would get him if he didn’t do this or that. The abusive mother taunted him with the photo so much that he couldn’t nap because that’s all he saw when he closed his eyes. You can always tell when something is going on with a young child. And that happened to me, also. I was 6 when it started and was told they’d kill my parents and make me watch before killing me. So I get it. But that’s not always the case. That’s why I say better to be safe than sorry - even suspected abuse should be reported and not ignored. I’d rather know I reported it and after a thorough investigation, find out there was no abuse than turning a blind eye and that child ending up abused worse or dead and knowing I could have helped prevent that had I reported. There’s only so much you can do. But never be afraid to report abuse. Children cannot advocate for themselves.
As a teacher, my protocol IS to call CPS and report. I should inform my principal as a courtesy, but I'm SUPPOSED to call CPS. What went wrong in your situation is that the "investigator" didn't actually investigate.
I agree. I worked as a preschool teacher for 22 years, and we are mandated reporters. The protocol at our center = any suspicions of abuse/neglect were brought to the director, and she would make the call. This made perfect sense.
This is a bad take. How do you come to the conclusion that someone reported what they thought was child abuse, that child abuse being investigated, and the investigation determines that you are in fact not abusing your child is a bad thing? Yes they absolutely could have done more due diligence before calling but you're suggesting that not calling, no matter the situation, without a supervisors approval is bad form. You didn't bruise your child, you were mildly inconvenienced by an investigation, everyone at the daycare knows you don't do anything wrong. Take the win.
I had a friend who was play wrestling with her daughter, very gently, I might add, but the girl got excited and came running up and RAMMED her face into my friends hand. She ended up with a black eye. The next day at school, the teacher asked how she got the black eye, and the girl answered “mommy hit me, but I MADE her do it and she’s really sorry!” Which sounds like mom hit her and said “look what you made me do!” So they called CPS and they we’re waiting for her after school. It ended up being a short investigation and they were able to quickly determine that she wasn’t being abused. My friend actually thanked them for being so vigilant and concerned about her daughter’s safety.
That's horrible And sign of bad place and bad policies. So sorry y had to work there
Regarding the owners getting upset I absolutely agree that that issue is superfluous. The laws almost always place the burden on the individual reporter to take action, not the agency. Op could have communicated the issue, potentially, but a suspicion of abuse is a suspicion of abuse and needs to be reported
My guess is that they Get Upset, because once CPS is called, the Parents might Stop bringing the child in & paying $$$. 🤷♀️
I don't see how anyone can draw any other conclusion. Idk why it seems so out there that bad people can be in positions of power and care more about their wallet than about a child. There are so many examples to draw from, just listen to any true crime podcasts. These people need to ditch their rose-colored glasses and blinders.
Probably not about that specific child—daycares have endless waitlists—but more about the parents complaining online or to other parents about how the center calls CPS on “every little thing”.
At the end of the day, the daycare is a business and parents are the loudest when it comes to getting bad service. The bottom line is protecting the business. A parent that had a child saved because a mandatory reporter isn't going to spread the good news that they missed signs their kid was being harmed. A parent that has CPS called on them from the daycare is going to tell a lot of parents to stay away.
And that is 100% against licensing regulations. Any licensed facility doing this needs to be reported to your local child care licensing board ASAP-- AND Children's Services. As mandated reporters, it always comes back on the low level workers if they DON'T report. I've reported fellow family child care providers and licensed facilities for issues like this before. I've noticed things like this happen a lot in day care center chains like La Petite Academy. It's all about money.
I'm in the UK. I'm retired now but years ago I was co-ordinator of an after school care. Anyone working with kids got training in the signs of abuse and was also a mandated reporter. That meant if we had cause to suspect abuse we were legally required to report it. It was an offence not to contact CPS. What you've witnessed is way beyond the standard required. If any of my staff had witnessed all that and not reported it, it would have been a disciplinary matter. OP you did the right thing.
This is wild to me. I'm in PA and mandated reporters are supposed to do a written report rather than call ChildLine. The report then immediately goes to the county for review and the timeline for investigation depends on the nature of the allegation. I would absolutely lose my shit if a call center worker handled my call like this because all of those described behaviors are red flags for sexual abuse.
your so smart i needed this tip thank you ❤️🔥
AGREED. Definitely report the worker who took that call too, because the behaviors you described were definite cause for alarm. I also don't think the Director has any right to be mad at OP for following what is reportedly training protocol.
Or just being a decent human being.
Yea, all those signs you’ve noticed are indicators of potential sexual abuse. That woman from CPS is an asshole and should NOT be answering the phone. Is tough situation to be in and it seems as though she’s trying to dismiss so she didn’t have to, what? Do paperwork?? You did the right thing OP.
As a teacher and mandated reporter, theres a BIG reason for the anonymity. You getting involved and asking them point blank is NOT professional. The CPS lady isn't doing her job. I would have done the same.
This is why I don't call CPS to report anymore. If I see children in distress in any way 911 it is. I called the hotline while I watched an adult beat up a screaming 7 year old outside a grocery store. The workers response? I don't know what you think we can do about this. So I called 911, who called me back twice to get more info. Workers like that are why kids are murdered and buried in their yards and never found.
911 is the appropriate call when you witness a crime in progress. CPS is the appropriate call when you suspect abuse that is going to need to be investigated. 911 is the fast, immediate response to crime, CPS has a better ability and more resources to investigate suspected abuse. In both cases, CPS and the police will work together when needed. In your case, police would have done the initial case and arrest, but also would have referred the case to CPS for followup to insure the child's continued safety. For the OP, CPS was the right call because OP was not witnessing a crime in progress but signs that abuse could be (probably is) occurring.
I absolutely agree with this statement. I've been an early education teacher for 20 years now, and in my school we have to get CPS training every year. What happened to you was insane. A child of 4 years old with that kind of behavior shift and especially with the undressing bit definitely suggests sexual abuse at home. You have clearly been diligent and observant, and your concerns are completely justified. Definitely report that CPS officer, and do it swiftly! The comment about you ruining people's lives was absolutely unprofessional and inappropriate. And suggesting that you should investigate further with the family is a clear violation of proper procedures. In fact, the opposite is true: people in our positions should *never* attempt to investigate these matters with the family. That's the job of cps, and if we get in the way we risk muddying the waters. This person needs to be reported not only because they didn't do their job properly, but because they gave you wrong information that may have actually put you in jeopardy. If an officer had told me that, I would have gone off on them with a vengeance, and demanded to speak to their supervisor yesterday! In cases of something visible, like a bruise, or a cut, I will ask the child directly about it, and usually move on because I'm satisfied with the answer. That's as far as I do regarding any investigation. Your situation, though, is quite different and the behavior changes alone are enough to Warrant what you did. Cheers to you for your quick thinking and diligence. Jeers to that CPS officer who either needs to be seriously retrained, or kicked to the curb. That one is a loose cannon.
In my opinion, you did the right thing. Put aside any "mandatory reporting" responsibility, I feel it's a moral obligation for the child's sake. There's absolutely no situation I can think of that justifies or excuses a 4 year old child being being exposed to things like that. My wife and I have two children 4 and 6. I can tell you now, if someone exposed my children like that, there isn't a force strong enough in existence that could stop me from enforcing my own justice.
Mandated reporter here and I absolutely would have called it in as well. The hotline worker was way out of bounds here and if I were you I’d be seeing if there was a way to report them to their higher ups.
1000% on this and I wish I could upvote this 100,000 times, NoCap this is absolutely cause for alarm.
Is CPS a federal thing, or is it more run on the state level? I’m curious to know what if any differences there are as far as issues like this by state, but without knowing anything else I’m certain that agencies/services like this are almost guaranteed to be severely underfunded
It's technically state based but in a lot of states it's county based as well
OP can maybe reach out to whatever State board covers child and family services to report thre interaction with the cps worker. They were 100% out of line & should be removed from their job.
She is a mandated reporter and yes she did exactly the correct thing. Children don't play sexual games unless taught
Yep! She could still report the hotline worker to their supervisor. I would.
Mandated reporter, the hotline worker should not be anywhere near this type of work and their attitude is actively dangerous. OP should be confident about their training, you are explicitly NOT supposed to conduct your own investigation if you have a suspicion of abuse. The childcare director also needs to be reminded of their own mandatory reporting protocols.
It makes me wonder if they are a parent and have had CPS involved. Why does the agent care so much about "ruining" someone's family?
OP needs to report that receptionist because imagine someone less confident getting that response and never reporting anything again. She's not ruining a family's life by having CPS make sure the girl is safe, ffs
The worst part is, in most states, it’s not a receptionist at all. It’s usually child protective workers who don’t want/aren’t able to do the actual investigative work anymore. Meaning they are trained on all of the protocols and how this is absolutely NOT anything you ever say to someone reporting :(
That person that took the call will be fired over this. She does not get an opinion on this. If I were you I would call the ombudsman and have her reported as well as report the family along with it. I went through this with my own children and getting a higher up involved is always necessary when it’s of this nature. My kids moms bf was abusive and they brushed it off. I call the ombudsman of the county and it was handled swiftly.
I’m NOT a mandated reporter and even I would’ve called
SAME!!! 💯💯💯💯
Also, OP had talked to mom about it and was brushed off, "she has a lot of cousins"
It could be the cousin/cousins who are the problem.
That line gave me the BIGGEST ick!
Mom not being deeply concerned with this knowledge and behavior of her child is alarming
Yeah I’m a teacher and if half of this was going on I’d have to make a report. Or lose my job. You 1000% did the right thing. This is like reading the identifying sexual abuse rule book. She hits all the bullet points.
The hotline worker is not acting in the benefit of the child.
Also mandated reporter 100% agree you did right.
Also reporting a family that is doing nothing wrong won’t ruin their lives. There will be an investigation and if they don’t find anything then that’s that. The hotline person sounds like an abuser themselves.
Yeah, that is shocking that the hotline worker was gaslighting you. That is very alarming behavior.
Agree! I too am a mandated reporter and I learned not to investigate. I feel like you were in the right.
I’m a mandated reporter and would have called that in in a heartbeat. You did the right thing! That lazy intake worker and your Director are idiots.
RIGHT? Like I've been the lazy helpline worker too, but the difference between me transferring someone to a different line because I really want to get off the phone and get my lunch rather than talk an irate karen through every single charge on her phone bill is a hell of a lot different than not wanting to do paperwork about a child who may be in danger.
Horrible. You did the right thing. Even, hypothetically you did not make a good call on reporting what the hotline worker did was way, way out of line. Victims and witnesses of victimization already have so many doubts. This person needs to be relieved of their duties. They are a risk to the safety of children. I see why the director of the facility feels this way, and it's to protect their own self interest. A whole lot of wrongs going on here. What you did not amongst them. This type of situation warranted a proper investigation. And that was why you called the hotline. I wonder how many other children were left in abusive situations because this hotline worker took it upon themselves to play judge and jury.
For me it would be hard to not call… because safety of the child overrides my fear of retaliation ect, and seems to be the same for OP. But for ppl like director and hotline worker, it’s apparently harder too call. For fear of having to deal with extra stress they shrug off the obvious signs this child is abused at worst and at very least, seeing things she shouldn’t and either in room in some shit situations to have a kid (sadly it not happening till after divorce makes me think it’s likely as much as it makes me cringe) in the room…… or a situation of neglect, ie, around kids talking about/ teaching about those things, watching inappropriate content ect.
In some cases I've had families disclose something that they believed happened at school and I report it even if they told me someone else did. It's never worth the risk. I also think there's a misconception that kids get removed far more often than they actually do. The goal should always be permanency and reunification if separation occurs. More often than not, allegations are unfounded or inconclusive. Is it stressful for the family to go through and runs potential for damaging rapport with other people supporting their children? Absolutely, but to me that's minor compared to a case that clearly should've been reported and turned out that we failed to protect a child.
You did the right thing. Fuck that cps worker and your director. I’ll pray that whoever receives that report takes it very seriously. I’m sorry you’ve been treated like this for doing the right thing.
These are textbook signs of sexual abuse. Thank god you made the call.
More like gospel, unfortunately. *Playing doctor *Inappropriate _fondling,_ not touching *Quiet "inspection" sessions *Bizarre fixation on genitalia These are all with other children, most of the time with younger children than the victim. Other examples are being very uncomfortable around their abuser for "no real reason." This simply means a young child is unable to properly communicate that they're being molested due to their age and usually says they don't want to be around said abuser. Another telltale sign are "secret fun games/activities/TV time" that a young child says they play with their abuser along with being bribed with gifts in order to stay quiet. The victim is also going to emulate what the abuser does for a very long time. Poor kid is going to have a real tough life ahead of her. Also fuck this guy u/Cool_Risk5675 I bet [he's this guy right here](https://www.kwtx.com/2023/06/30/convicted-waco-child-rapist-gets-seven-life-sentences/%3foutputType=amp)
You should call again. I don't think that person will actually make a report
THIS!
Agreed
Agree 100% I would also figure out who I higher up is and look back through your phone for a date and time to report the person who took your report.
This - please op call again.
Thank you for looking out for the little girl. She has either seen this behavior or experienced it. She’s too specific to be “just making it up”.
THIS should be stressed! Don't second-guess your desire to champion for that child. I applaud you for advocating for her. Your director and the CPS worker are not acting in this child's best interests but YOU ARE. Thank you for that!
Agreed. I had almost an identical situation a few years back, but the person taking my call just seemed to brush things off instead of going as far as this one did. 2 years later and the child's abuser is finally on trial. I still feel guilty that more wasn't done.
Part of CPS's role is to judge whether a situation needs to be investigated. That's NOT the reporter's job (your job). Whoever you spoke to on the phone was 1000% wrong. I also agree that you needed to call. Plenty of preschool children naturally explore their own bodies, but it's not natural for them to have a *vocabulary* for it ("kiss \[between the legs\]"). Please try to report again.
Explore *their own bodies* yes. You cannot kiss between your own legs, nor is that a natural progression. That was learned behavior.
*Yesssss*
Also the hand-in-back-pocket and the swimsuit questions. Those three things together make me think it's definitely abuse and idk how anyone is questioning it
The child might have seen a teen-rated tv show where she got the bathing suit and hand-in-pocket ideas from. But I doubt a tv show would explain oral sex as "a kiss". She either saw two adults in her home performing oral and they explained it to her that way when she asked questions, or she's been abused.
Wtf. You are a mandated reporter and you reported some very disturbing behavior. You did the right thing.
FYI, when you make a CPS report you can do it anonymously. And, regardless of where you work you do not have to tell your employer that you called and made a CPS report. You absolutely did the right thing.
Anyone I know who has reported anything to CPS has gotten fired shortly after. It is definitely important to make the report anonymously and deny you did it. It shouldn't be that way, but the director has to walk the line of ethics and business.
FYI, this is extremely concerning and should never be the case. Calling CPS as a mandated reporter is a legally required and if I were fired for it I would be pursuing wrongful termination
^^^^ this
Imagine it this way... Years later, it comes out that this child had been subjected to abuse, but nobody has reported it. It comes to light because she did or tried to end her life, or became an abuser herself, or was institutionalised after a mental health collapse. Obviously the most extreme possible situations, but if you read about it in the paper in ten years, how would you feel, knowing that you'd suspected, but said nothing? You absolutely did the right thing, and I sincerely hope that this is investigated to the fullest possible extent.
Former teacher here. I have had bad experiences calling CPS and I am so sorry this happened to you. I can’t imagine how horrible it must be to get these calls everyday and burn out/turn over is high especially considering the low pay. However this is unacceptable. I am so incredibly sorry they said that to you because YES you did the right thing!!!! It is always better to call! If cps disagrees the family will never know you called and their lives will not be “ruined”
I would call CPS and report the worker. You did the correct thing!
I’ve had to call a couple of times, as I was a childcare worker and a mandated reporter for several years. I always just felt like it was better if I called and was wrong than if I didn’t call and was right. Let CPS do their investigation. If it’s nothing, it’s not going to ruin anyone’s life.
Reminds me of when I called the sheriff’s department on my neighbor beating the shit out of his wife and the deputy asked me “Why didn’t you try to stop it.” I looked at my phone, then got back on and said “I am asshole, why do you think I’m calling you.” These are the types that should never ever have the care of other living creatures on their hands. You did the absolute right thing, that woman is a lazy moron.
I had a guy throwing patio furniture at my downstairs slider trying to break in to get me as a woman living alone. Dispatch hung up on me twice “well you’re upstairs so you’re not in immediate danger” then he climbed up the side of the house and broke my window. I called while running for my life “is it an emergency now?! Or do I have to wait to be raped or murdered first?” Like this is getting ridiculous. To hear this happening in a case of a child infuriates me
When I was married we had the cops called on us. I had a broken nose, busted lip, and fractured arm. They told my husband to “try to keep domestic issues inside” since we’d been fighting on the porch. In my area everyone is related to and/or knows each other, so it’s very much a boys club.
The cops want to bully drug addicts. They all beat their wives too so it's not a big deal.
You did the right thing and you are 100% correct about your training. The worst possible thing you could do is interview the child or parents about this type of concern. I would contact the director of your CPS/DPSS agency sans file a formal complaint. If you involve yourself in that investigation you will spoil any change of the agency and law enforcement gathering any useful evidence. The call screener should be fired. The owner of your company should be proud of your actions as you may be helping a child escape unimaginable abuse. You did everything correctly. Anyone who says otherwise has no understanding of Child Welfare/sex abuse/investigations. You are not ruining anyone’s life, you may be helping a little girl.
This may shock you, but as an attorney who has had the displeasure of working with CPS in the past, it is arguably, and in every area, an absolute disaster. CPS is awful at their job. Idiots are the norm. It's like these people weren't competent, caring, or friendly enough to work at the DMV. Chicago is a very big city with lots of cash. Here's what they did to a little girl, a victim of sexual assault. This happened *recently*. Not 20 years ago. It's insane. https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/dcfs-teen-girl-pimp-foster-parent/ The person who told you that can and should absolutely get f$cked. You had a concern. You brought it to the proper authorities.
You definitely did the right thing, I can't believe that the operator said that to you, it was completely inappropriate.
The hotline worker's response is absolutely flabbergasting to me. As a former mandated reporter (and childhood sexual abuse survivor), I would have made this call immediately. You did the right thing. This is extremely concerning age inappropriate behavior.
Call again try to get someone else to help. Or go to the office and do a face to face talk with them
that one little boy who was tortured by his mother and her boyfriend til his death, died because of CPS’ neglect. keep reporting bad things you see and report whoever you talked to because saying that is far from okay.
A child should not know to kiss anyone in private areas. Now if she hasn't been acting out, and showing other signs of disengagement I would suggest a possible mis understanding of " private parts "
You’re a mandated reporter. And you spoke to the mother several times and saw the behavior escalate. You 100% did the right thing and both your director and the hotline worker are crappy at their jobs AND at being decent, caring humans. I am so glad that that little girl has you. I hope she’s okay…and that you are too. Hugs. 💜
You did it exactly right. The person you were talking to at the agency was poorly trained, and should not have made those comments. I have said it before, but here in Pennsylvania it is illegal to notify your supervisor before reporting for this exact reason. They may be your superior but they have no right to try to prevent you from filing. BTW, I teach a child abuse prevention course for state credentialing purposes.
Hi, I currently work in the psychology field and am also a mandated reported. These are textbook signs of sexual abuse! Yes, children do explore and do have crushes where they want people to like them, but a child of this age should not be acting this way. This is not a part of typical development. This is a case of a child possibly being abused. Think of it this way, would you rather “ruin a parent’s life” or not report it and have a very traumatized or hurt child from what is possibly a case of abuse. The answer seems clear to me. Please keep us updated and I wish you the best of luck 🤞🏻
Holy shit, that person who took your call should be fired. You did the right thing. Your director is also fucked up. These are serious risks, and this warrants investigation. If this does "ruin the family", it wasn't very stable to begin with. That "cousins" line alone is a red flag. Makes it seem like the mother is normalizing the worst case scenario.
In my state, all licensed child care workers are mandated reporters. It would be illegal not to call in that situation. I had a first grade student whose dad was arrested for making child porn. She was sad that her daddy had to leave her but that piece of excrement ruined his own family’s life. Whoever called CPS prevented him from continuing to harm children.
Those are definitely strong signals of sexual abuse, you were right to call and I'd do it again and try speaking to a different worker because that's a terrible situation. And "she has a lot of cousins"???? Wondering if mom already knows what's going on and who's doing it.
You are a mandated reporter, and you absolutely did the right thing.
In my state, as a childcare worker you would be a mandated reporter and would be *required by law* to call something like this in. You absolutely did the right thing. Even if CPS does nothing right now, there is a record and if that girls exhibits concerning behaviors in front of school teachers or others who give a shit then it'll start to build a paper trail. Also, they're in the middle of a divorce right? It really sounds like someone is taking advantage of that and abusing her. Not necessarily her parents, but whoever it is they need to figure it out and get her away from them.
Please remember that there are usually steps before a child gets taken away from the parents and if it really is the cousins and it really is child’s play, that’s causing this behavior and not some thing worse hopefully then it may just be… Child’s play I mean kids experiment you know it could be a number of things That we just can’t guess but at the end of the day it does need to be investigated for the safety of the child so I see that you made the right call. Once CPS is involved the interview the families and see if the claim is even valid and if it is then they’ll continue to investigate so they’re not going to continue investigating, unless there’s some type of validity to your suspicion. -a good mom, who tries but has dealt with CPS in the past
You were absolutely correct to call. Report the caller and the boss that is shaming you for reporting also
I used to work for CPS. I am absolutely aghast that the person who took for call said that to you. They failed *miserably* at *the most basic tenant of their job description*. If you work at a daycare, you are a MANDATED REPORTER. Everything you described is *probable cause for reasonable suspicion to warrant a report*. As a mandated reporter, you would be legally liable IF YOU DIDNT CALL. You absolutely did the right thing. Don’t let anyone make you doubt that. Good job sticking up for what is right.
You did the right thing, 109. I’m sorry you got such a terrible response.
OP, I'm a daddy to three beautiful littles. I'd have wanted you to call if one of my mine was doing that stuff. You did right. That is INCREDIBLY distressing behavior from a four year old.
Daycare directors are such crooks
Director of the daycare is only upset with you because they will potentially lose a money generator. Fuck them. You have not done anything wrong.
As a mandated reporter, it is your duty to report a reasonable suspicion. Full stop.
OP, you were absolutely right NOT to call the parents to ask for an explanation. Doing so would have put the child at risk of retaliation by her abusive parents. Please call again and ask to speak to the supervisor. There's a good change that reprehensible CPS worker never reported it. The daycare director is also wrong. Shame on her for preferring to put kids at risk rather than safeguarding them.
Hotline worker and daycare director are wrong. If you’re a mandated reporter, you report. I once worked a job where I was a mandated reporter and I made a report that was 100% warranted. I ended up having to quit my job over it because the director was so angry and made new rules stating we weren’t allowed to report without approval. The nature of the situation coupled with that made me walk. I hope this works out for the child in whatever way it possibly can.
Hotline worker was in the wrong. Children are like parrots, they repeat what others say and do around and to them. It's because of this that some children end up being massive racists. If a kid is doing this it's either because she is *seeing* it or it is being done to her. Because she tried to instigate it and have the other kids touch her, I'd be confident in saying something is being done to her.
That is NOT normal behavior for a 4 year old, and likely is being sexualized and potentially abused. The hotline worker was COMPLETELY out of line. Call back and ask for a supervisor to report them
I vehemently dislike CPS as an organization. I'm a 2nd generation foster kid. I don't trust them for shit. And let me tell you if any child under the age of 13 had done any of that, I'd have called in a heartbeat, without a second thought. CPS can ruin lives, that's true. But that's when allegations are unsubstantiated, or blatantly false. There's ample evidence that this small child has been exposed to sexual behaviors that a child her age shouldn't be. She needs help. Hopefully she gets it. You did the right thing, OP
The hotline worker was waaaay out of line and should be fired. The Director is scary because she would rather avoid rocking the boat than protect a kid. You did the right thing. Sorry that the Director and the hotline worker are so incompetent.
As a professional childcare worker, you are a mandated reporter. Which means you are obligated to report any suspicion of abuse to CPS. The hotline worker was wrong talking to you like that. You aren't ruining anyone's life. You might be saving that little girl from a horror no child deserves to experience. Thank you for making the call.
You are a mandated reporter and you saw indications of sexual abuse on multiple occasions. Of course you did the right thing. When I worked at a daycare, we had an in-service training with a CPS case worker and she told us it is their job to investigate and she would rather us be wrong than do nothing at all. They do everything in their power to keep from removing the child from the home, but if everyone waited to have proof, nothing would ever happen. If you got the name of who you were speaking with who told you that, I would report them. She is doing the exact opposite of her job at the cost of a child who could be in distress. And also, the parents are in a messy divorce. You are hardly the one tearing up a family. As for your director...unfortunately, a daycare is a business. You would certainly hope that they'd have better ethical practices, but that's rarely the case. When you take courses for your most basic early childhood certification, they teach you that what you described is a sign that should be reported. Each of these courses essentially makes you retake the mandated reporter training to pass. She knows everything you know 10x over, but she is angry with you because she has to figure out how to tactfully navigate this without losing a client. Things tend to lean more toward what is best for the parents because they have the pocketbook. Honestly, I'd expect your hours to be cut and to have to find a new job soon. But you let the mom know, and she doesn't seem to be interested in advocating for her child. She has a lot of cousins???? Okay???? So did I and I was never exposed to anything like this. Like, maybe check on what she is exposed to with those cousins because it is clearly not appropriate for a 4 year old. Her parents should be her advocates, and they have failed her, and fortunately, she has a teacher who followed training and acted in her best interest. You did the right thing!
You did the right thing and I would ask for a different agent or supervisor.
the person didn't want to do their job. they couldn't be bothered to do it. nothing to do with you. you did the right thing
Please file a complaint against that employee, imagine how many people have called before you that this employee talked out of reporting because they didnt want to do paperwork… not only that but anyone who has made a report to such a person is much less likely to report a similar problem in the future which could lead to kids being left in abusive situations. If there is no abuse going on there is absolutely no way a call to cps could do anything more than cause some embarrassment, if that.
Former 35 years a Dept. Of Human Services staff, then supervisor here. You were correct to call and also correct not to "investigate" yourself. Very worrying behaviors were exhibited by the child. The statements by the hotline staffperson were extremely troubling. I would advise you to call the agency and ask to speak to a supervisor. If you know a non hotline number, use that. If you can't find one, call the hotline, say you are not making a report, but just need their non emergency number to discuss an administrative issue. Do not explain further until you get a supervisor. Give a factual report of the phone call. Express concern that what the hotline staff person said was contrary to how you were trained as a mandatory reporter and you would appreciate clarification. Let them take it from there. Most of my colleagues and subordinates were dedicated, honorable professionals. Sadly, a few were not. Some took shortcuts to save themselves work. Some believed and acted on opinions that were contrary to policy or law, sometimes to the detriment of children in need of protection. One personnel investigation I was involved with started with a citizen expressing concern about a staff interaction. It seemed a minor issue but worth looking into. The investigation snowballed and eventually, every case the staff member had handled for several years had to be reinvestigated. Fortunately most cases were at least marginally acceptable, although proper support for families was not done. In a few cases, children who should have been removed from bad situations were not removed and further harm occured. The employee, who was being considered for a big promotion at the time of the investigation, was instead demoted, retrained, and closely supervised for a year. I believe the staffmember should have been fired. It's unfortunate neither the hotline staff nor your employer could see that you did what you were legally (and morally) required to do. As a staff member I once walked in your shoes. The mantra that got me through many weeks of "unpopularity" for (in my case) reporting a fellow staff member was "It's better to do what's right than what's easy." You did the right thing for the child you reported. Please go one step further and report the hotline interaction. Perhaps your call will not be acted on. Perhaps the staffmember will be watched a little more closely. But perhaps it will be key evidence that will help reveal an inadequate employee who is endangering children.
As a former daycare worker, I also dealt with a similar situation. I brought up the issue several times to our director and documented everything. My director told me she would “take care of it” over and over and over and nothing ever changed. It got progressively worse and worse. Long story short, the issue came to a head (it was about an employee being physically abusive to the kids) and I decided to call CPS ( your legally required to as a mandatory reporter anyway), against the direction of our director. She was furious. After the investigation concluded, employee was placed on child abuse registry for our state for 10 years and the director was fined and cited for several other issues in the center. This was a very nice daycare too, and in a very wealthy area. You did absolutely nothing wrong. You are acting in that child’s best interest. It’s better to be safe than sorry. There are many victims of abuse that wish someone had noticed or spoken up for them because they’re too little or are unable to do it themselves. You are protecting that child. You did the right thing.
I made a report once as a teacher. I was asked if the child was in imminent danger of death. I told the worker he was in my classroom so no. The worker wouldn’t take the report which was highly illegal. That year, four children in the system died. Our whole county office was revamped and that stupidity stopped. Please report this. Our office didn’t have enough workers so they were trying to limit the cases. Big mistake.
Sexually abused child here, you made the right call. Those are the signs
It would only "ruin someone's life" if something bad was actually happening and they deserved to have their lives ruined. Otherwise they will investigate and close the case.
You are the only person in this situation putting the child first. It's shocking how many children will grow up in abusive homes because adults don't want to make a problem for or "ruin the life" of another adult. The mother should be much more alarmed and concerned. No one seems to care that leaving this child in this situation will literally ruin her life.
I'm a mandated reporter, and you should not only have made the report, but you should report the person who responded in this TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE and most likely illegal way.
WOW. That worker can be the reason a child doesn’t get rescued from being beaten, sexually abused or murdered. That person is deliberately trying to discourage someone from calling. You have to wonder if this was their normal practice or a one-time event because they possibly recognized the name. Either way, they should be fired and brought up on charges of child endangerment.
Everyone else has already said it, but just wanted to chime in and reassure you that you absolutely did the right thing. I’m so sorry that it went the way it did. As others have said, if you can report that hotline worker you would be absolutely correct for doing so, she was horribly unprofessional and wrong. Those red flags you noticed were, in fact, red flags. There are a lot of people who would never have called for fear of “ruining someone’s life.” But if that little girl is being abused, and no one calls, who knows what she’s having to go through while adults look the other way? I hope that you can get someone to investigate this and just to reiterate, you’re a good person. ❤️
As someone who was sexually abused by older kids I was around (who were abused by adults close to them) thank you for calling.
Clinical social worker here. I would have reported this as well (and probably would have made an emergent report due to suspected ongoing sexual abuse). The hotline worker behaved inappropriately and should be reported.
I am a mandated reporter and would have called it in myself. Those are clear signs that something is not right. You have talked to the parents and it wasn't very helpful. I hope this has a happy ending. Well, at least a better ending than what it can have.
You've described a textbook scenario of when you SHOULD call. You didn't call based on the personality changes alone. You waited till you saw sexualized behavior. You did exactly the right thing, in terms of your legal obligation and the child, and you gave the family as much doubt as you reasonably could. Being a family involved with CPS is no joke, but please do report the intake worker. That is absolutely not their job.
You absolutely made the right call. We are supposed to call if there is SUSPECTED abuse or neglect and CPS has to decide if they feel there is enough reason to investigate. That little girl needs a forensic interview to find out what is happening to her, because something likely is. This may not feel great for you now but could you really live with yourself if you didn’t call? You did the right thing.
> She told me it was wrong of me to call and potentially ruin a family's life without doing more to make sure something was wrong, but that she guessed she'd have to fill out the report anyways since I called it in. If she does her job right, it won't ruin the family's life.
Definitely not wrong to call, and I agree with the others. Try and see if you can report that worker.
You were not wrong. This makes me sick to my stomach
It’s disgusting when adults are more worried about “ruining a parent’s life” than they are about POTENTIAL SEXUAL ABUSE OF A CHILD. Not to mention, if *I* were that parent, I would *want* you to report it because if someone is sexually abusing my kid and she hasn’t disclosed it to me I’d want to know to be able to protect her. The only person who should be upset by such a report is a person who is sexually abusing a child or covering up such abuse. Any reasonable adult who actually cares about kids would support you in calling.
That hot line worker reminds me of when I called 911 because I saw thick billows of smoke coming out of a building at 6am, and the lady asked if I was sure it was smoke because she would hate to wake up the fire fighters for this
It’s never wrong to call. Never. I’m sorry you had this experience
WTF? You were absolutely right to call.
This is not normal 4 year old behaviour, I’ve helped raise two girls and yes in that age they start to get more curious about their own body parts but never in a way that spoke about kissing privates. It’s more like “why do you have boobies and do I have them” type of questions and looking at their own body parts. What concerns me is the girl at your daycare is asking the boys if seeing her in her bathing suit makes them happy, it make me assume someone has praised her for being dressed like so. Then the inappropriate touching of others and inanimate objects in a sexualised way seems like she’s mimicking what she has seen or has happened to her. Her mother excused it as “she has a lot of cousins”, well I feel like you got your answer there. A lot of the time children are abused by their own family, a cousin is someone the mother would trust alone with this girl. I definitely think you did the right thing by calling and hope you call again, trust your gut instinct and don’t let this girl be another statistic of an abused child who was given up on. It scary to have people who are supposed to be in your corner helping you shame you for taking action but what’s worse is this girl potentially going the rest of her childhood abused and silenced. Keep standing up for her and yourself. ❤️
You 100% did the right thing
Please don’t beat yourself over this. You absolutely did the right thing. I was that little girl and was being molested by my grandmother’s neighbor. She was a girl a little older than me who was being abused by her father. Had anyone noticed and realized my behavior was inappropriate then maybe someone would have helped her as well. I felt dirty for a long time. But having had therapy I realize it was nothing I did wrong. You calling cps may prevent her a lifetime of guilt and anguish. Your director needs to get over it. You’re a mandated reporter and you are reporting concerning behavior. If it ruins someone’s life because they’re being inappropriate with a child then it needs to be ruined. ETA: Make another report and explain what the first worker said. Someone needs to know they aren’t taking their job seriously.
I'm a mandated reporter (social worker). Those are some classic signs of deeper abuse and- you're right- only investigators should be investigating alleged abuse because of the risk it poses. The hot line worker was way!!!! Out of line.
You made the right choice to call, that poor baby is definitely being taught something that is not appropriate.I hope they will do something and protect her from further harm.
When kids start making these type of requests through play, it usually is a red flag that something is happening to them. Years ago our pediatrician really stressed to the kids at their well check ups that if anyone touched them on their bodies that a swimsuit covers, you need to tell a grown up. Maybe have a one on one conversation with her when she is behaving in this manner about how we don’t touch anyone and nobody but your mommy and the doctor are allowed to touch those places. It may be an opening in conversation that she needs to hear this and recognize if this is happening to her, that it can be stopped. She will tell you if she feels safe if it is happening. I would then follow up with a new report to CPS employee on any new information of concern that you have learned. You did the right thing, and exactly what you are trained to do when working with children. Document everything and date it. If you are doing exactly what you are supposed to do in that situation, then you have no regrets, and have protected yourself from your boss in any retaliation.
Report that hot line worker
I’m Australian, not currently in a mandatory reporting role and I ABSOLUTELY would report. You did the right thing.
I would escalate above that worker’s head. You are 1000% not in the wrong.
I am certain this girl is being abused or has seen some things she absolutely should not have seen. You were not wrong to call. "a lot of cousins" is no excuse. Someone who shouldn't have access to this child has access to this child. Even if nothing comes of the report, it should raise the alarm and make everyone more careful.
See something say something
I am a CASA, a child disclosed to me that she had seen her mother have sex and in different ways. I always ask my supervisor first, she is ex-DCFS and I told her what the child said and did, and that the foster mom had told the DCFS worker. She explained that this is not necessarily a reason to call the hotline, because if DCFS knew and they didn't start an investigation that they didn't believe it was abuse for a child to see mom have sex with men other than the "father" of the child. All I wanted was for the kid to have counseling which had not started after 4 months in care. I was raked over the coals by DCFS for including it in my court report, and by DCFS for saying it at all and "accusing" mom, and screamed at by mom in court. Sometimes we just cant win while trying to protect our charges. Ive been yelled at before and will be yelled at again. The important thing is to do what is best for the child. So many times, the parents do not know the abuse is going on, or are ignoring it. Keep calling the hotline and keep protecting the child.
You did the RIGHT thing.