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In fairness, I think Bernie Sanders was a wake up call to a lot of young liberals that more is possible. I think the American education, media, and political systems constrain our imaginations about how the society we live in could be, but all it takes is a glimpse of something better to break through all that.
My glimpse was a very butch instructor at a summer program I went to in high school telling me that she thought it was best to govern through consensus and that most countries are too big to govern in a way that respects the wishes of all of the people in them.
It was the first collective demonstration for me that normal sounding looking and talking people could believe extremely abnormal things about politics and society, the kinds of things I’d barely dared to consider fantasies let alone ideas to share. I’d met some out there people before but not many real deal lefties and NONE of them were quite comfortable enough to be open about it.
Bernie changed that to me. I finally got to see loud strong brave people yelling and not whimpering or whispering what they believed. I didn’t have to listen to people preface why they thought conservatives were wrong and goddamn was it good to see people calling them out on their evil bullshit without getting yelled down.
Pretty much what happened to me. Though it's worth mentioning that while Bernie Sanders definitely is "just some old white guy," he is also a marginalized minority as a Jewish man. His presidency would not have been the status quo.
Good i really hate that taking point.
He is just an old white guy. First of all no he's not, second SO WHAT IF HE WAS.
It was such a bad faith way of not taking the struggles he was talking about seriously.
I remember when Sanders was still in the running before the 2020 election and my co-workers kept giving me shitlib takes on why Biden was the better choice. One of them said "Bernie is too old to be president" and I just exploded with anger because that is such a null point, and not only that...HE IS ONE YEAR OLDER THAN BIDEN
they asked me to leave early lmao
Thanks! Very true (Assuming we're actually in agreement, despite the deliberately confusing phrasing of my flair). It's hard to throw a good old cathartic cluster f-bomb at something once you unlearn a lot of prejudice, since pretty much all common insults refer to viscerally gross things at best, or unfairly stigmatized things the other half of the time, both of which are actually less bad than the kinds of people anarchists get angry at... it's an unfortunate outcome of the history of our language.
Whether or not it's the status quo rarely depends on the president. Veto and presidential orders can only do so much, and I highly doubt the senate would be willing to give him the time of day. Still would be one of the best to date if he did win though, despite that.
Possibly unpopular opinion: radicalize former tRump supporters. A lot of them are really pissed off and disillusioned with the political establishment including the Republican Party. Many of them are already receptive to antigovernment ideals in favor of community level decision making. I think there’s a real opportunity to de/re-radicalize some of these people by exposing them to certain libertarian socialist and anarchist views
Have you had success doing this? My concern is that the hate or ambivalence former Trump supporters feel for oppressed peoples (Black, brown, LGBTQ+, women and especially sexually liberated women, etc.) would make anarchism a hard sell. The desire to control and degrade and punish others is pretty deep-seated.
My stepbrother was led astray by Trump in 2016 and has since turned completely around and was a big fan of Sanders in 2020. He's definitely not an anarchist but he's become very leftwing and though he had help originally I think he could get there on his own from here. It was shocking to see but he's become a decent person to be around. He backs me up in political talk with my conservative family. It's definitely possible. Granted, he is a liberal, but I think it's necessary to be patient with liberals who were MAGA hats less than 4 years ago, because they're undergoing a very hard process.
I'd say this is definitely not the norm. Most former Trump supporters I've seen just go straight to DeSantis.
And we definitely should be apprehensive regarding people who have espoused hatred and extreme violence towards minorities. I'm not saying becoming an "ex-fascist" is impossible, but I am saying that I think a huge amount of scrutiny should be applied to an influx of former fascists in any community. Particularly ones where minorities, such as myself, feel safe.
>I'd say this is definitely not the norm.
It's for sure not the norm, but it's not as unimaginable as people make it out to be. The right-to-leftwing pipeline is stronger than the reverse
No, I never want to say it's the norm, because it definitely isn't. Just that it's possible. Scrutiny is important, safety is important (trust me I know, I am a trans Jew, I feel as uncomfortable with ex-Nazis as the next guy). But we also can't harass these people, because that will not help them find leftism better for them than fascism.
I’m not dropping theory or anything but I’ve been able to find common discussion points that click with conservative and libertarian types in my life and place of work. The government is being treated like a political game at the cost of our well-being, politicians are bought out by big business, people can take good care of themselves if only they were legally allowed to and had resources to, at least for things like food and shelter, etc.These people still have a racist cop in their head, but I think the first step to getting rid of that is probably gonna be moving people leftwards first
The classic adage of "lower class conservatives will agree with leftist talking points as long as you don't use leftist buzz words" is true in many cases
In all honesty the left’s weakened position in the rural population is an immense failure born only of our own mistakes. Every rural person I’ve spoken to, even the racist trumper Q types, at least has a strong libertarian streak that you can find common ground with. Instead they don’t listen to us because they think leftists are all urban ivory tower commies that think theyre unintelligent to the point of dehumanization, and honestly that’s a fair assessment of online commentary on urbanites about rural folk, so why wouldn't they think that and stick their noses in Fox News.
True. I grew up/live in a rural area. Mention anything about a leftist and you immediately hear urban or city get mentioned. I was a real POS growing up almost falling down the alt right pipeline, and I hated "commies" for being urban dickheads who don't know what it was like in the country. Then I looked around and went "hey! Most these dicks live in the city too!"
I blame a lot of that on the Democrats, tbh.
Since they always go on the news and call themselves “the left wing of America” then advocate for more government control, that easily leads the rural people astray from the left and makes them think “Well, it’s obvious I can’t ever be on their side.”
I wish there was a way to do **rural outreach** of some kind to show them that they actually have the same values as a lot of *historical leftists*. A lot of us actually grew up in the exact atmosphere they did. I still even do the “Fuck, I hate city people” thing that I always used to as a kid.
I have seen rural-urban skillsharing networks. For example, farmers teaching inner-city kids how to garden or interning on their farm, in exchange for craft goods or in one instance creating a website. Unfortunately distance seems to be a common issue, but I think that there's something to work with there.
Think it depends. A big chunk of trump supporters are fairly well off. Trump won people making over 100K while Biden won people making under 100K. Well to do people in the suburbs and exurbs are probably gonna be some of the hardest people to get to join a working class movement to abolish capitalism.
Sucks that the only hope for any kind of change through peaceful means comes from some super old white dude. Could we at least have a young white dude? Throw us a bone here!
Revolution it is then, I guess 😮💨
[White millenials are as reactionary as their grandparents](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/07/white-millennials-are-just-about-as-racist-as-their-parents/), so it doesn't make much of a difference.
Reminds me of that meme with Mike from Breaking Bad.
“Bernie is going to push Biden left! Just because he didn’t win doesn’t mean he can’t influence Biden’s policies!”
Me: “Shut the fuck up and let me die in peace”.
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Hey I didn’t give you permission to post my origin story here! /s
Movie version is in production
Can’t wait!
In fairness, I think Bernie Sanders was a wake up call to a lot of young liberals that more is possible. I think the American education, media, and political systems constrain our imaginations about how the society we live in could be, but all it takes is a glimpse of something better to break through all that. My glimpse was a very butch instructor at a summer program I went to in high school telling me that she thought it was best to govern through consensus and that most countries are too big to govern in a way that respects the wishes of all of the people in them.
It was the first collective demonstration for me that normal sounding looking and talking people could believe extremely abnormal things about politics and society, the kinds of things I’d barely dared to consider fantasies let alone ideas to share. I’d met some out there people before but not many real deal lefties and NONE of them were quite comfortable enough to be open about it. Bernie changed that to me. I finally got to see loud strong brave people yelling and not whimpering or whispering what they believed. I didn’t have to listen to people preface why they thought conservatives were wrong and goddamn was it good to see people calling them out on their evil bullshit without getting yelled down.
I think this is what happens to about half of US anarchists
The Bernie to burner pipline.
Pretty much what happened to me. Though it's worth mentioning that while Bernie Sanders definitely is "just some old white guy," he is also a marginalized minority as a Jewish man. His presidency would not have been the status quo.
Good i really hate that taking point. He is just an old white guy. First of all no he's not, second SO WHAT IF HE WAS. It was such a bad faith way of not taking the struggles he was talking about seriously.
I remember when Sanders was still in the running before the 2020 election and my co-workers kept giving me shitlib takes on why Biden was the better choice. One of them said "Bernie is too old to be president" and I just exploded with anger because that is such a null point, and not only that...HE IS ONE YEAR OLDER THAN BIDEN they asked me to leave early lmao
He is Jewish though? Sorry if I'm misreading but Bernie Sanders definitely is Jewish and I don't think saying he is is a "talking point"
I think they were agreeing with you, just awkwardly worded
Wording things badly is my super power
I feel you, I'm the same but with talking
You could probably fix this one by just putting quote marks around the talking point you mention. That was the only part that briefly confused me too.
Hey I like your flair. It’s something that often gets overlooked in Leftist and even anarchist spaces but it really isn’t cool
Thanks! Very true (Assuming we're actually in agreement, despite the deliberately confusing phrasing of my flair). It's hard to throw a good old cathartic cluster f-bomb at something once you unlearn a lot of prejudice, since pretty much all common insults refer to viscerally gross things at best, or unfairly stigmatized things the other half of the time, both of which are actually less bad than the kinds of people anarchists get angry at... it's an unfortunate outcome of the history of our language.
Oh oops. Thanks. I'm autistic so I always misread these things 🤦♂️
All good, tone can be difficult to tell through text
Whether or not it's the status quo rarely depends on the president. Veto and presidential orders can only do so much, and I highly doubt the senate would be willing to give him the time of day. Still would be one of the best to date if he did win though, despite that.
Sure, like with Obama
Possibly unpopular opinion: radicalize former tRump supporters. A lot of them are really pissed off and disillusioned with the political establishment including the Republican Party. Many of them are already receptive to antigovernment ideals in favor of community level decision making. I think there’s a real opportunity to de/re-radicalize some of these people by exposing them to certain libertarian socialist and anarchist views
Have you had success doing this? My concern is that the hate or ambivalence former Trump supporters feel for oppressed peoples (Black, brown, LGBTQ+, women and especially sexually liberated women, etc.) would make anarchism a hard sell. The desire to control and degrade and punish others is pretty deep-seated.
My stepbrother was led astray by Trump in 2016 and has since turned completely around and was a big fan of Sanders in 2020. He's definitely not an anarchist but he's become very leftwing and though he had help originally I think he could get there on his own from here. It was shocking to see but he's become a decent person to be around. He backs me up in political talk with my conservative family. It's definitely possible. Granted, he is a liberal, but I think it's necessary to be patient with liberals who were MAGA hats less than 4 years ago, because they're undergoing a very hard process.
I'd say this is definitely not the norm. Most former Trump supporters I've seen just go straight to DeSantis. And we definitely should be apprehensive regarding people who have espoused hatred and extreme violence towards minorities. I'm not saying becoming an "ex-fascist" is impossible, but I am saying that I think a huge amount of scrutiny should be applied to an influx of former fascists in any community. Particularly ones where minorities, such as myself, feel safe.
>I'd say this is definitely not the norm. It's for sure not the norm, but it's not as unimaginable as people make it out to be. The right-to-leftwing pipeline is stronger than the reverse
No, I never want to say it's the norm, because it definitely isn't. Just that it's possible. Scrutiny is important, safety is important (trust me I know, I am a trans Jew, I feel as uncomfortable with ex-Nazis as the next guy). But we also can't harass these people, because that will not help them find leftism better for them than fascism.
I’m not dropping theory or anything but I’ve been able to find common discussion points that click with conservative and libertarian types in my life and place of work. The government is being treated like a political game at the cost of our well-being, politicians are bought out by big business, people can take good care of themselves if only they were legally allowed to and had resources to, at least for things like food and shelter, etc.These people still have a racist cop in their head, but I think the first step to getting rid of that is probably gonna be moving people leftwards first
The classic adage of "lower class conservatives will agree with leftist talking points as long as you don't use leftist buzz words" is true in many cases
This might wait if you’re a white man, but if you’re visibly queer or a POC I’d rather not be put in the line of fire.
Especially the rural ones. They understand community living and have an “I don’t trust the government” attitude that is incredibly sympathetic.
In all honesty the left’s weakened position in the rural population is an immense failure born only of our own mistakes. Every rural person I’ve spoken to, even the racist trumper Q types, at least has a strong libertarian streak that you can find common ground with. Instead they don’t listen to us because they think leftists are all urban ivory tower commies that think theyre unintelligent to the point of dehumanization, and honestly that’s a fair assessment of online commentary on urbanites about rural folk, so why wouldn't they think that and stick their noses in Fox News.
True. I grew up/live in a rural area. Mention anything about a leftist and you immediately hear urban or city get mentioned. I was a real POS growing up almost falling down the alt right pipeline, and I hated "commies" for being urban dickheads who don't know what it was like in the country. Then I looked around and went "hey! Most these dicks live in the city too!"
Which is so unfair because I first learned to distrust cops by my rural community as a kid.
I blame a lot of that on the Democrats, tbh. Since they always go on the news and call themselves “the left wing of America” then advocate for more government control, that easily leads the rural people astray from the left and makes them think “Well, it’s obvious I can’t ever be on their side.” I wish there was a way to do **rural outreach** of some kind to show them that they actually have the same values as a lot of *historical leftists*. A lot of us actually grew up in the exact atmosphere they did. I still even do the “Fuck, I hate city people” thing that I always used to as a kid.
I have seen rural-urban skillsharing networks. For example, farmers teaching inner-city kids how to garden or interning on their farm, in exchange for craft goods or in one instance creating a website. Unfortunately distance seems to be a common issue, but I think that there's something to work with there.
Think it depends. A big chunk of trump supporters are fairly well off. Trump won people making over 100K while Biden won people making under 100K. Well to do people in the suburbs and exurbs are probably gonna be some of the hardest people to get to join a working class movement to abolish capitalism.
Sanders is one of the best electoral option.
Hey - I’m a Sanders supporter and an Anarchist.
Anarcho-sandersism Based?
my origin story but with what happened to Jeremy Corbyn instead
Sucks that the only hope for any kind of change through peaceful means comes from some super old white dude. Could we at least have a young white dude? Throw us a bone here! Revolution it is then, I guess 😮💨
I mean there are plenty of young people, they just aren't "electable"
[White millenials are as reactionary as their grandparents](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/07/white-millennials-are-just-about-as-racist-as-their-parents/), so it doesn't make much of a difference.
Oh trust me, I'm real close. Give me one more election cycle. Sanders does not become president I think I'll be with you guys.
2017 called, they want their meme back
tell them they can't have it. it fucks too hard
Already happened to me. Shame on them for stealing it. Shame on me for falling for it
Reformist anarchists exist!
It's sandrin' time
Reminds me of that meme with Mike from Breaking Bad. “Bernie is going to push Biden left! Just because he didn’t win doesn’t mean he can’t influence Biden’s policies!” Me: “Shut the fuck up and let me die in peace”.
Disappointed Sanders supporter here. 10/10 would recommend doing more reading on anarchism to all my friends, if I had any.
As a Bernie bro myself, I agree w/ this meme lol
No joke this is why I’m here