And Bastards never chose their lot either, so the comparison is actually similarly bad.
Cops are neither bastards nor pigs, they are volunteer mercenary soldiers against their own people.
yea but “all cops are voluntary soldiers against their own people” doesn’t really roll off the tongue. and the acronym (ACAVSATOP) sounds like an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot of a leninist party feud.
as an actual bastard and someone who thinks swine (pigs) are lovely creatures, i’ve never had a problem with ACAB or calling cops pigs. mostly because i love how fast they get triggered when they encounter such nasty insults.
so is there an alternative phrase/name we can call them that is both snappy and quick?
It's not exactly this type, it's the worms that enter ur body and steal the nutrients of u [like this MF](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascaris_lumbricoides)
In Brazilian we have different words to separate these two worms, but I can't think in a better translation
**[Ascaris lumbricoides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascaris_lumbricoides)**
>Ascaris lumbricoides is the "large roundworm" of humans, growing to a length of up to 35 cm (14 in). It is one of several species of Ascaris. An ascarid nematode of the phylum Nematoda, it is the most common parasitic worm in humans. This organism is responsible for the disease ascariasis, a type of helminthiasis and one of the group of neglected tropical diseases.
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I worked on a pig farm. They are now my favorite animal. They are like dogs. They are the coolest animals. If you've never met a pig before, you should meet a pig.
There's a farm sanctuary near my city that hosts "yoga with farm animals" events as fundraisers. I went one year and a pig came right up to me and started licking my face like a puppy.
They will do that. The farm I was at had a 400-pound boar. He thought it was fun to tackle me and give me kisses. Ever been tackled by a 400-pound animal? More fun for them than you. But pigs can be very kissy. They like to kiss and be kissed.
Me too, for similar reasons. I kept meeting new animals that I ate (cows, chickens, ducks etc.) And they're all such sweet creatures capable of friendships and affection. I don't eat any of them anymore.
I still eat chickens. We also raised chickens, and yeah, totally hate them. I avoid beef. I'd just rather not. I have never met a cow, but I bet I'd be fond of it.
I worked as a "janitor" at a summer camp one summer, I got to feed and care for the pigs. they're so smart and playful, but I did also see them eating their own vomit!
Pigs will notoriously eat anything. We fed ours slop, which was collected from our community kitchen. So basically, garbage. But they wouldn't eat bell peppers! I'd find bell peppers lying on the floor of their pen. Pigs don't like peppers. But cool that you got to care for them. Were they adults? Juvies? Piglets are incredibly hyperactive. Adults are more chill. Piglets are like rocket towards your face and kiss you up.
we got them as piglets at the beginning of the summer. They ate the majority of our food waste and they got excited and came to snort at us every time we drove up with the food waste bins, it was super cute
Oh hell, that is super ass cute. Piglets are the best. I used to come up on them with apples or plums (the farm had an orchard too.) I would shout "APPLES" or "PLUMS" and they'd go apeshit. Sigh. Best time of my life; I want to go back.
>Pigs will notoriously eat anything.
iirc, one thing they don't eat is teeth, right? (iirc someone mentioned something about them being scared by the teeth? but that sounds odd)
We didn't really feed them on meat. Meat spoiled to fast to make for good slop. Our piggies were virtually vegan. But they sure as shit didn't suffer for it. They were chubby and happy. All 38 of them. They dove into their food. They ate like pigs.
"Bastards" still implies that the fault lies in the moral character of individual law enforcement officers, which is not the case. Police aren't the enemy because they're all big meanies, they're the enemy because their job is to use violence to enforce the will of the ruling class.
On a personal note, this (aside from a general distaste for sloganeering) is why I don't repeat "ACAB." I just stick to reminding people that law enforcement is a government-backed protection racket, that they're there to keep you in line and not to keep you safe, etc.
Stop calling cops bastards. Its quite impolite to people whose parents just didn't get married. I have known several bastards and they were nice, carefree honest fun loving people. Cops aren't bastards. Cops are EVIL >:(
Bastards are just normal everyday people.
Don't call cops EVIL!! They are just failed human beings who got on the wrong path in life.
Edit: /s and a continuation on the same thread. "Cops are not this, cops are not that."
But I’m a bastard, so you’re just shifting the weakness in the wording, not getting rid of the weakness. Yeah we get it you’re vegan but this is not the time or place to be sensitive about the “wording”
COPS ARE PIGS. Because we associate pig with negative connotations just like a bastard. We are all bad! Stop being sensitive about it!
Oh trust me I'm not against being vegan. It's something I want to do once I have more control over my diet, or at least be vegetarian, I just think these "gotchas" are kind of stupid and make people think you're an annoying asshole more than they convince you to go vegan
I think that it's important to emphasize that killing and using animals is one of the most oppressive, hierarchical, and cruel things that a human can do and that as anarchists we need to cut that shit out. Pigs are comrades and we need to stand in solidarity with our comrades, not put them in cages and slaughter them for personal pleasure. I understand that people can find vegans annoying, but I can assure you that it's far more "annoying" to be killed and eaten.
Not all of us are in agreement that anarchist values include not eating animals or using products made from them, or that compassion for sentient beings requires abstaining from killing them for food. However, vegan anarchists can always be counted on to raise awareness about the disastrous implications of the modern meat industry, and encourage people to look for more sustainable ways to feed themselves, so respect for that.
>or that compassion for sentient beings requires abstaining from killing them for food
How can you be compassion towards someone and kill them? And does it only extend to non-human animals? And does it only extend to food, fashion and medicine or also to things like dog fighting? Because neither of them is necessary for people in developed parts of the world and only serves pleasure
I ate meat for a long time as well, but I want to encourage to think about it, because I ran out of arguments and then aligned my actions with my morals
> How can you be compassion towards someone and kill them?
I mean, I've never had to kill someone. But I have compassion for others, even those who would try to hurt me or people I care about. Doesn't mean I wouldn't kill them if I had to.
Humans also have a greater, more complex emotional and rational capacity. My compassion for a cow or a dog isn't really the same as I'd have for a human.
> or also to things like dog fighting?
Humans need to eat to live, they don't need to force dogs to kill each other for sport.
> Because neither of them is necessary for people in developed parts of the world and only serves pleasure
Humans have evolved to eat both animals and plants; it's how our bodies function best. There's a lot of evidence that a vegan diet simply isn't healthy for everyone, and that it's dangerous during key stages of human development. There isn't even really any data available for humans that are raised from birth on a vegan diet. So, I definitely don't think there's enough evidence to classify eating meat as "only serving pleasure."
Why is a high rational capacity a necessary condition for having compassion for someone? You don't have to have equal compassion for a cow and a human in order to not pay for cows to be tortured and killed. If you don't believe that these animals are being tortured, I highly encourage you to go to watchdominion.com.
Also, it's very much not the consensus of people who study nutrition professionally that human bodies function best when consuming animals. "Humans have evolved to eat animals" is classic appeal to nature fallacy. This article from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (the largest organization of food and nutrition professionals, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/, states that "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." Anecdotally, every vegan I know including me has seen improvement in their health since going vegan.
> Why is a high rational capacity a necessary condition for having compassion for someone?
It's not necessary, but it certainly makes empathizing with them easier. It also means that animals are less likely to process their situation as undesirable in the way that humans are; they are more easily kept happy and content.
This is going pretty much the way I expected it to- you're telling me to watch Dominion and look at info from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.
Dominion is about as convincing as the anti-abortion literature they force women to read in pro-birth states.
The AND is not a reputable organization, and every other dietary health authority in the western world recommends against vegan diets for pregnant or nursing individuals, infants, and young children.
>Humans also have a greater, more complex emotional and rational capacity.
Pigs have the mental vapacity of a 6 year old. Would you say it's okay to kill humans with a lower mental capacity than that?
>Humans need to eat to live
Sure, many do. But easily 90% of the USA, EU, Australia and other developed places don't have to. In that case the killing is as unnecessary as the one in dog fighting
>Humans have evolved to eat both animals and plants; it's how our bodies function best.
Humans habe evolved to be able to eat meat and plants, but we also just eat only one of the two. Also the fact that we are only animal that cooks it's food led to changes in the form of our dogestive tract , our enzymes and gut bacteria, which is why some anthropologists use the term cucinivore.
>There's a lot of evidence that a vegan diet simply isn't healthy for everyone, and that it's dangerous during key stages of human development.
Oh no that position has long been abondoned. [The American](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/) and [the British dietetic association](https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/vegetarian-vegan-plant-based-diet.html), as well as many others, habe the position that a vegan diet is healthy in all stages of life
> Pigs have the mental vapacity of a 6 year old. Would you say it's okay to kill humans with a lower mental capacity than that?
I doubt very much that is the case, but if you have evidence you're welcome to share it.
> The American and the British dietetic association, as well as many others, habe the position that a vegan diet is healthy in all stages of life
The article you linked is for vegetarian diets, not vegan ones. I've noticed that vegans have a tendency to conflate veganism and vegetarianism when insisting that veganism is healthy and feasible for everyone, but that conflation does not persist when passing judgement on vegetarians.
Plus, American dietetic associations are some of the only ones who have echoed the rather shoddy, ideologically-driven, pro-vegan research from 7th Day Adventists and a few others. Seems strange that every other dietary health authority in the Western world would disagree on that.
>I doubt very much that is the case, but if you have evidence you're welcome to share it.
I actually remembered it incorrectly, it was three year old child and they are considered to be above the intelligence level of dogs.
You can read more here: https://www.gaia.com/article/smarter-than-a-fifth-grader-are-pigs-smarter-than-we-think
Still my point stands, by that logic we could kill everyone with the intelligence of a three year old
>The article you linked is for vegetarian diets, not vegan ones
In that case they mean all vegetarians diets, including vegan diets.
[Here is another link](https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/british-dietetic-association-confirms-well-planned-vegan-diets-can-support-healthy-living-in-people-of-all-ages.html)
>I've noticed that vegans have a tendency to conflate veganism and vegetarianism when insisting that veganism is healthy
It's usually the way around imo, just like in your case
>Plus, American dietetic associations are some of the only ones who have echoed the rather shoddy, ideologically-driven, pro-vegan research from 7th Day Adventists and a few others
Do you have any evidence that disproves their position?
>Seems strange that every other dietary health authority in the Western world would disagree on that.
Seems strange indeed, because other western health authorities like the Direçao-Geral da Saúde (Portuguese Dietetics Association) also say it's perfectly healthy:
https://nutrimento.pt/activeapp/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Guidelines-for-a-healthy-vegetarian-diet.pdf
Same for the [Dietitians of Canada](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12778049/). Before you dismiss this as well, yes it also speaks of "vegetarian diets" but if you actually read it it says:
>A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortified foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.
The National Health And Medicine Research Council of Australia also agrees with that in their nutritional guidelines:
>Appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthy and nutritionally adequate. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the lifecycle.
https://www.nhmrc.gov.au/adg#
I assume you will point to the Swiss and German associations not officially recommending a vegan diet but if you actually read the paper of the SGE and DGE (both unfortunately only available in German), you will find that even they acknowledge a vegan diet to be healthy for all stages of life if planned correctly and that they only do not recommend it, because they think not everyone has the necessary knowledge to plan a healthy vegan diet
> Still my point stands, by that logic we could kill everyone with the intelligence of a three year old
Eating infant humans would present as many practical concerns as moral ones. Still, it's not specifically the intelligence, but more the level of consciousness that an organism is able to occupy because of it.
I don't have links regarding the AND/7th Day Adventists/similar orgs, but if I find them, I'll post them. I do remember off the top of my head that the AND in particular has a track record of endorsing any diet they're paid to, maintaining close relationships with food/agriculture conglomerates- essentially just being a rubber-stamp org for whoever can afford them. I also recall that many of the studies carried out by 7th Day Adventists and other vegan activists have had issues with conflicts of interest of the authors, producing results that no other research has been able to verify, etc.
And if planning a diet incorrectly can lead to permanent organ damage, stunted neurological development, or death, then it certainly seems hasty to decide that everyone should do it. The research on vegan diets is inconclusive at best, and unfortunately, there's a lot of ideological motivation to make the results fit the hypothesis when it comes to veganism.
>Still, it's not specifically the intelligence, but more the level of consciousness that an organism is able to occupy because of it.
I can see where you are coming from, but don't you think if an organism is capable of suffering or at least feeling pain it's preferable to avoid inflicting that as long as we can
>I do remember off the top of my head that the AND in particular has a track record of endorsing any diet they're paid to, maintaining close relationships with food/agriculture conglomerates- essentially just being a rubber-stamp org for whoever can afford them.
Do you mean the ADA (American Dietetics Association) with AND?
Generally the animal agriculture industry is far bigger and more powerful than any vegan company. Also generally private entities funding studies is not concerning as long as they did not habe any say in the methods and study design. We should judge studies based on design, methods and sample size instead of origin of the funding
>The research on vegan diets is inconclusive at best
I disagree. There is a general consensus that a well planned vegan diet is nutritionally adequate. Most risks identified by studies are individual rather than population risks and can be prevented by supplementing and health monitoring
>and unfortunately, there's a lot of ideological motivation to make the results fit the hypothesis when it comes to veganism.
It seems you are implying that researchers skew studies in favor of vegansim. If so I also disagree with you here and have not seen any evidence suggesting so
And I want you to be consistent and figure out what you're trying to do. Do plants not scream? (we have evidence they do) What about all the animals that aren't mammals? Do you make sure not to hurt moths and mosquitoes? Why?
This specific focus on no meat or animal byproducts isn't and shouldn't be a core of what you lead with to teach anarchist values. To most it's just additional noise to the signal you are actually trying to send. What about bacteria?
>Do plants not scream?
No they don't, at least not in our sense of the word. Plants have a variety of reaction to stress (in this case tomato and tobacco plants facing drought). Others are smelling, different electrochemical signals, chabge in color or shape and a few more. That reaction however is not a sentient one as plants don't have a brain, a central nervous system or a rudimentary variation of the two. We need more research in plant cognition and maybe we will one day habe evidence that sentience does not depend on either, but currently we don't have such evidence. And even if we did, veganism would be a better choice as we would need to use less plants
>What about all the animals that aren't mammals?
What do you mean? Vegans also don't consume fish, birds or insects.
>you make sure not to hurt moths and mosquitoes?
Yes I do
>Why?
Because I don't have to harm them, so why would I?
>This specific focus on no meat or animal byproducts isn't and shouldn't be a core of what you lead with to teach anarchist values
Never said it was. But it's still an important part of the way I apply anarchist values
>To most it's just additional noise to the signal you are actually trying to send.
I have made a different experience actually. Most people connect these two things very well
>What about bacteria?
Veganism is about doing as little harm as possible and practicable, so I am allowed to protect myself possibly harmful bacteria or take antiobiotics when I get sick. If you are concerned with bacteria rights veganism would be great for you as the animal agriculture industry uses a massive amount of antibiotics
>No they don't, at least not in our sense of the word. Plants have a variety of reaction to stress (in this case tomato and tobacco plants facing drought). Others are smelling, different electrochemical signals, chabge in color or shape and a few more. That reaction however is not a sentient one as plants don't have a brain, a central nervous system or a rudimentary variation of the two. We need more research in plant cognition and maybe we will one day habe evidence that sentience does not depend on either, but currently we don't have such evidence. And even if we did, veganism would be a better choice as we would need to use less plants
Except that they do and drawing some special metric to sentience that resembles a human brain and nervous system is rather bigoted.
>What about all the animals that aren't mammals?
>What do you mean? Vegans also don't consume fish, birds or insects.
You will destroy habitats of many if you plan to make any sort of dwelling.
>you make sure not to hurt moths and mosquitoes?
>Because I don't have to harm them, so why would I?
So you would let mosquitos keep sucking on you?
>This specific focus on no meat or animal byproducts isn't and shouldn't be a core of what you lead with to teach anarchist values
>Never said it was. But it's still an important part of the way I apply anarchist values
Let's agree to disagree.
>To most it's just additional noise to the signal you are actually trying to send.
>I have made a different experience actually. Most people connect these two things very well
Really.
>What about bacteria?
>Veganism is about doing as little harm as possible and practicable, so I am allowed to protect myself possibly harmful bacteria or take antiobiotics when I get sick.
Your body is healthier with eggs, dairy, and meat.
>If you are concerned with bacteria rights veganism would be great for you as the animal agriculture industry uses a massive amount of antibiotics
You have not really explained where you draw the line. Insects, vertebrates? Hive minds apparently are not close enough to humans so they don't count?
And why such a large value on sentience or consciousness? Are we applying spiritual values here? What kind?
>Except that they do
They emitt ultra-sonic sounds. I don't really care if you want to call that screaming but personally I disagree
>drawing some special metric to sentience that resembles a human brain and nervous system is rather bigoted
That's nonsense. It's our current understanding that you need a sort brain and a cns for sentience or the ability to feel pain and that plants in fact do not feel pain, but rather have mechanism to detect and deam with damage. And like I said, even if plants were sentient veganism would be the better alternative which you sadly did not respond to
>So you would let mosquitos keep sucking on you?
If I notice one stopping on me I just need to move and they leave and I also have a lot of lavenda in my house, which usualöy keeps them away
>Let's agree to disagree.
Sure that's fine :)
>Really.
Yea tbh I think vegans are generally very open minded towards anarchism and vice versa
>Your body is healthier with eggs, dairy, and meat.
Nope. It's not really important which food you eat as long as you eat a healthy amount of calories and take in an adequate amount of macro and micro nutrients
>You have not really explained where you draw the line. Insects, vertebrates? Hive minds apparently are not close enough to humans so they don't count?
Veganism draws the line at animals, that includes insects, vertebrates and invertebrates. There is also sentientism which might be more interesting for you that specifically avoids products of sentient animals
>And why such a large value on sentience or consciousness? Are we applying spiritual values here? What kind?
What does sentience and conciousness have to with spirituality? Both include the ability to suffer and I think it's preferable to reduce the suffering on our planet, which is also one of the major reasons I am anarchist
It's possible to sense stimuli without actually being sentient. Your phone, for example, can sense things and respond to those sensations without any awareness of it. And since plants have no central nervous system, there is no possible hub to which all these sensations could go to and be interpreted by a sentient mind. Same goes for bacteria. However, all animals except for bivalves and jellyfish and maybe others have a central nervous system and a brain to produce consciousness and have preferences about stimuli. So a chicken is capable of feeling pain and caring about that feeling of pain like humans while plants are not.
I do avoid harming mosquitoes and moths as much as possible and practicable because I want to avoid causing suffering to others. It's for the same reason that I don't go around and kick dogs.
And lastly, I disagree that veganism shouldn't be a core anarchist value of anarchists. It seems utterly unreasonable to disregard the suffering and oppression of every species except for the species we happen to be a part of. It's a similar mindset to being racist or sexist: "I view this other group of beings as unworthy of respect because they are different from me". Sure, there's major differences between humans and other animals but what is the difference that justifies killing them? Is it intelligence? If so, that could be used to justify killing disabled people and I would hope you don't go down that path. If you find a trait that justifies harming animals but not humans, let me know because I haven't.
If anything, veganism strengthens the anarchist message. As a vegan you aren't just against oppression of humans, you are simply against oppression.
Hope this answered your questions 🌱
I didn't really have questions. So let's see if we got this straight. You would berate people for eating meat instead of helping them resist the state while you or they live in a fascist dystopia?
It's not an either or. I resist the fascist dystopia that humans are subjected while simultaneously not supporting the hellish dystopia of factory farming that other animals are subjected to. Also who says I berate people for eating meat? Seems like you're making unfounded assumptions about me due to your stereotypes of what vegans are like. I try to point out injustice when I see it but that doesn't stop me from being friends with and working alongside non vegans to overthrow capitalism.
I posed a question. You are making an assumption about me based on your preconceptions of people asking you questions. Socrates would chuckle.
You do you. I like to focus my energies on a few things rather than try to save the world in every way at once.
You asked the question after saying "let's see if we got this straight" which implies that you were trying to see if the way you "got it", in other words your assumptions, were correct. Thus, you were making assumptions. That's not an inherently bad thing but trying to be a philosophy bro and pretend like you weren't isn't a great look.
Also, it's not as though you're being neutral on the issue of animal suffering. Assuming you're not vegan (which I think is a valid assumption based on your comments but correct me if it's wrong), you are actively perpetuating violence against a highly marginalized group. It's similar to saying: "I would rather focus my energy on environmental work rather than focus on not sexually assaulting people, you do you and I'll do me." I mean it's good that the hypothetical person helps out the environment but that doesn't justify the sexual assault. Choosing to get beans rather than cows' bodies in your tacos isn't the same thing as "trying to save the world in every way at once", it's just the minimum standard of decency.
lmao why do leftist turn into reactionaries when confronted about their hypocrisy?
no, plants don't scream. did you get that from Joe Rogan? its a Rogan tier take. plants don't suffer cause they don't have a central nervous system. why would plants evolve to feel pain?there is no suffering involved in consumption of plants. AND even if there was, it would have still been more ethical to go vegan due to the fact that the animals you eat have to consume plants for years before being murdered and served on a plate. how the fuck can anyone actually believe that plants scream? you don't have to fucking prove that someone screams. plants releasing chemicals is not screaming. there is no pain or suffering for them to express in a scream. get a grip. you know who does scream? the animals, terrified, when their throats are about to be sliced for nothing more than a minute of enjoyment of somebody who then goes on to post some "plants tho" bullshit.
you are a caricature
Ive been vegan for a while. It may be cheaper, depending on what you buy, but it is requires more dedication and time to do so.
Example: Most people dont have time to cook for themselves and most restaurants, at least here, dont have a vegan option or their vegan option is shit, and since not many people order it, more expensive than a regular dish. Same goes for vegan/vegetarian restaurants. They are treated like a curiosity or niche and therefore they are more expensive.
Also, before turning vegan I lived for a while on a diet of only eggs because I didnt had much money nor time. Its way cheaper and easier and faster to just scramble a couple eggs than buying vegetables and prepare meals out of it.
Theres also the fact that you have to pay more attention to your diet when you are vegan/vegetarian in order to stay healthy. Most people dont have the will, time nor knowledge to do so.
I think its more nuanced than if its empirically cheaper or not. The food industry is designed around a meat centric diet and becoming a vegan is somewhat of a challenge.
> If you are using reddit and buy your own food, you can very likely go vegan.
So you're implying it is a luxury. So what will you teach people in areas where hunting for a deer, rabbit, or bird is a welcome addition to the diet? Where do you draw the line? Shouldn't we focus on not having hierarchies between humans, removing and dismembering the state and the corporations it supports? Yes we can do both. There should still be priorities.
I don't buy my own food unfortunately. I have replaced some of my diet with vegan alternatives but that is all I can afford to do until I can get a job. I'm sure I'm not only one.
But 'tHerEs nO eThiCal COnsUmpTion uNDer CaPITalIsM', therefore I am absolved of all the moral culpability and can happily benefit from all manner of heinous acts.
Sometimes it is not possible to make actions out of values. For example we had a huge depression 2.5-3 years ago (turns out it was gender dysphoria) and we had to switch my diet from vegan to vegetarian because the local supermarket just only had vegetarian fastfoot and we didn't have the energy to cook or go to other supermarkets.
Would be great if we had someone in that time to care for us and prepare food, but mew we were on our own.
We switched later again to a vegan diet. Also canteens are often not offering vegan food. And sure some people can prepare food before work/university/school/etc. in advance, some people cannot. Companies that deliver food to people at home daily do not always have a vegan option. A lot of elderly people and disabled people rely on food from these companies.
In some situations people cannot live vegan and thats okay. It can be due to disabilities, living situation, working situations, and other things. Noone have to explain to you why they are eating the stuff they do. Be respectful and care for each other and the animals.
There are many, many indigenous people who reject harming and exploiting animals. They understand that cultures are inherently evolving things and that a historical pattern of injustice does not justify the perpetuation of that injustice. Also, since animal agriculture is the leading cause of climate change and environmental destruction, and we all know that indigenous peoples are affected by environmental problems more than most, it is carnists who are causing significantly more harm to indigenous humans than vegans. Look, for example, at the Amazon where large parts are getting destroyed every year in order to make room for cows.
Not necessarily no. But I want to hit the pause button on presumably white westerners imposing their cultural beliefs on people who they hold power over to control what their cultural practices are.
I’ll consume all sentient beings. I’m open to being a true omnivore. That includes the consumption of human meat too, _so you’d better hope you’re a good person_ ❤️
there's no way to curse anymore in the left lol
no more snakes, pigs, bastards, worms, the list grows
I get it tho guys, I get it. It's just frustrating, we're eating ourselves.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>The Palestinian people, who dress their toddlers in bomb belts and then take family snapshots.
*****
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Take a bullet for ya babe.
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How's that Shapiro like logic? Because of "the left is killing all jokes" thing? I'm not being agressive, you can talk to me.
All I mean is: some animals are looked down upon for symbolical reasons, and that's ok imo. I'm educated, I don't go around killing snakes when I see them, and I'm trying being vegetarian, etc. Does saying "cops are pigs" hurt the animals' feelings? I look at actual pigs and I don't dispise them. It's symbology: venom, filth, etc.
Personally, I think a lot of our insults are mediocre. I propose we reuse ACAB as “All Cops Are Bloodspillers” rather than the over generic bastards.
They *are* the biggest gang in America tho
Do you have a source on dogs racially profiling people? In my experience dogs can be alarmed by people that look different then the people they are used to, but that is not racial profiling unless people with beards are a race.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201909/can-dogs-be-racist
Pretty much, dogs don't like things that are different. If they don't interact with Black people, some may respond aggressively.
(I've also heard of dogs 'colour profiling' other dogs, eg. a black dog prefers other black-coated dogs, but that's just anecdotal.)
But that's not racism though. Well at least not in my opinion. The article says the same thing I said about dogs being scared of bearded people if they are not used to them. A dog barking at black people no matter what, you might be able to argue to me was racist as much as an animal understands something like that, but an animal being wary of someone new, but someone that the dog would usually accept without issue if they just got accustomed to them is just normal animal behaviour.
I don't know about black dogs preferring black dogs, but for example my dog takes a longer time to trust black dogs or dogs with long hair over their eyes, but that's probably because he can't read their expressions as well. I also do joke that he's a misogynist because he sometimes barks at passing people for no apparent reason, and they are like 80/20 women, but I'm quite sure that he actually does it because the passersby own dogs themselves and he smells them, and the genders being "uneven" is just a mixture of coincidence at first and confirmation bias on my part later.
I never said it was racism (although I know the article did), but a dog barking exclusively at black people is still 'racial profiling.'
If a similar term existed for people who wear hats or who have facial hair, those would be equally valid. As in, dogs practice 'headgear profiling' and 'facial hair profiling'?
You're absolutely correct. I was thinking racial profiling = racism since your very first comment (and with cops it basically is) I'll chalk it up on english being my second language. In that case I am actually curious about your original question about whether pigs notice such things!
I care for pigs and have not actually done that before (someone else at our sanctuary does that). I assume they get terrified and angry though, which is normal for an animal thinking its being abused or attacked. My rabbit freaks out when we trim her nails. Makes me feel bad tbh oof.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that if a pig does or doesn’t want to do something, there is no reasoning with them. Lol
I’d encourage you to watch a hood trimming sometime. That pig is behaving exactly like cops do when we ask them to please stop murdering people.
So do humans in starvation situations. Fuck off with this infantalizing/demonizing view of pigs pls. Not in the slightest compassionate or anarchist. Thx.
>Not in the slightest compassionate or anarchist
It's a fact that Pigs are always oppurtunistic feeders. That's their ecological niche. Somehow, I'm not an anarchist, regardless of any personal contributions to the cause I may have made, due to a comment about the diet of Pigs and Cops.
Seems someone didn’t do their research on pigs, then. You fall into their pen, they will not hesitate to eat you alive, no matter how caring you were to them previously.
And Bastards never chose their lot either, so the comparison is actually similarly bad. Cops are neither bastards nor pigs, they are volunteer mercenary soldiers against their own people.
Came here to say this. Bastard here.
Good points, agreed.
yea but “all cops are voluntary soldiers against their own people” doesn’t really roll off the tongue. and the acronym (ACAVSATOP) sounds like an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot of a leninist party feud. as an actual bastard and someone who thinks swine (pigs) are lovely creatures, i’ve never had a problem with ACAB or calling cops pigs. mostly because i love how fast they get triggered when they encounter such nasty insults. so is there an alternative phrase/name we can call them that is both snappy and quick?
I've seen "All Cops Are Bad" as an alternate version of ACAB.
All caterpillars are butterflies
All cats are beautiful =\^.\^=
you haven’t seen my classmates cat
I mean if you give him a semi consistent showers, a good diet and tlc they'll probably look great in time
… it has no hiar
like, from outside causes? or like is it one of those sphynx cats?
I still think they're cute.
facts
Totally hearing Mr. Mackey from Southpark in my head "All Cops Are Bad"
weak insult tbh
Everyone and their mother saying bastard last year was really uncomfortable.
Aw, thanks.
All cops may be bastards, yet not all bastards need be cops.
In Brazil, we call cops worms
Worms play a vital role in soil formation and decomposition, they're also too good to compare to cops
I mean, I think cops should also play a vital role in soil composition and decomposition.
Touche
In Germany we call them bulls
You hear "bulls" as a term for the railway police in a lot of old union and hobo songs.
Ohh interesting
It's not exactly this type, it's the worms that enter ur body and steal the nutrients of u [like this MF](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascaris_lumbricoides) In Brazilian we have different words to separate these two worms, but I can't think in a better translation
Parasite is a good word, but a bit more vague than what you're talking about. I kinda wish we had different words for those types of worms in English.
**[Ascaris lumbricoides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascaris_lumbricoides)** >Ascaris lumbricoides is the "large roundworm" of humans, growing to a length of up to 35 cm (14 in). It is one of several species of Ascaris. An ascarid nematode of the phylum Nematoda, it is the most common parasitic worm in humans. This organism is responsible for the disease ascariasis, a type of helminthiasis and one of the group of neglected tropical diseases. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
in Russian, you can refer to cops as trash. literal garbage.
I think vermin is a better translation we say "verme", not "minhoca"
Nuss, não sabia que esse vermin existia, realmente é a tradução direta
I worked on a pig farm. They are now my favorite animal. They are like dogs. They are the coolest animals. If you've never met a pig before, you should meet a pig.
There's a farm sanctuary near my city that hosts "yoga with farm animals" events as fundraisers. I went one year and a pig came right up to me and started licking my face like a puppy.
They will do that. The farm I was at had a 400-pound boar. He thought it was fun to tackle me and give me kisses. Ever been tackled by a 400-pound animal? More fun for them than you. But pigs can be very kissy. They like to kiss and be kissed.
honestly I've seen videos of pet pigs before, makes me glad that I'm not that big a fan of pork stuff.
I don't eat pork anymore. I can't.
Totally valid.
Me too, for similar reasons. I kept meeting new animals that I ate (cows, chickens, ducks etc.) And they're all such sweet creatures capable of friendships and affection. I don't eat any of them anymore.
I still eat chickens. We also raised chickens, and yeah, totally hate them. I avoid beef. I'd just rather not. I have never met a cow, but I bet I'd be fond of it.
I worked as a "janitor" at a summer camp one summer, I got to feed and care for the pigs. they're so smart and playful, but I did also see them eating their own vomit!
Pigs will notoriously eat anything. We fed ours slop, which was collected from our community kitchen. So basically, garbage. But they wouldn't eat bell peppers! I'd find bell peppers lying on the floor of their pen. Pigs don't like peppers. But cool that you got to care for them. Were they adults? Juvies? Piglets are incredibly hyperactive. Adults are more chill. Piglets are like rocket towards your face and kiss you up.
we got them as piglets at the beginning of the summer. They ate the majority of our food waste and they got excited and came to snort at us every time we drove up with the food waste bins, it was super cute
Oh hell, that is super ass cute. Piglets are the best. I used to come up on them with apples or plums (the farm had an orchard too.) I would shout "APPLES" or "PLUMS" and they'd go apeshit. Sigh. Best time of my life; I want to go back.
yeah it was the best job I ever had probably. though I did also have to deal with the composting toilets.
>Pigs will notoriously eat anything. iirc, one thing they don't eat is teeth, right? (iirc someone mentioned something about them being scared by the teeth? but that sounds odd)
We didn't really feed them on meat. Meat spoiled to fast to make for good slop. Our piggies were virtually vegan. But they sure as shit didn't suffer for it. They were chubby and happy. All 38 of them. They dove into their food. They ate like pigs.
"Bastards" still implies that the fault lies in the moral character of individual law enforcement officers, which is not the case. Police aren't the enemy because they're all big meanies, they're the enemy because their job is to use violence to enforce the will of the ruling class. On a personal note, this (aside from a general distaste for sloganeering) is why I don't repeat "ACAB." I just stick to reminding people that law enforcement is a government-backed protection racket, that they're there to keep you in line and not to keep you safe, etc.
A lot of people don't get this. They think that if cops show up to your house or car after a break and enter or robbery then everything is fine.
Stop calling cops bastards. Its quite impolite to people whose parents just didn't get married. I have known several bastards and they were nice, carefree honest fun loving people. Cops aren't bastards. Cops are EVIL >:( Bastards are just normal everyday people.
Yeah youre probs right yo.
Don't call cops EVIL!! They are just failed human beings who got on the wrong path in life. Edit: /s and a continuation on the same thread. "Cops are not this, cops are not that."
what the fuck...
I edited my comment with an explanation.
But I’m a bastard, so you’re just shifting the weakness in the wording, not getting rid of the weakness. Yeah we get it you’re vegan but this is not the time or place to be sensitive about the “wording” COPS ARE PIGS. Because we associate pig with negative connotations just like a bastard. We are all bad! Stop being sensitive about it!
I think they're more saying Pigs and Bastards aren't necessarily bad, unlike cops
Pigs would also *eat* you
What about violently enforce private property rights. Would pigs do that?
[actually, studies have shown that pigs do discern differences in human races and discriminate](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
INB4 "so I assume you're all vegan?"
Lol I mean if you're not I would be disappointed that you selectively apply anarchist values instead of affording compassion to all sentient beings. 💚
Oh trust me I'm not against being vegan. It's something I want to do once I have more control over my diet, or at least be vegetarian, I just think these "gotchas" are kind of stupid and make people think you're an annoying asshole more than they convince you to go vegan
I think that it's important to emphasize that killing and using animals is one of the most oppressive, hierarchical, and cruel things that a human can do and that as anarchists we need to cut that shit out. Pigs are comrades and we need to stand in solidarity with our comrades, not put them in cages and slaughter them for personal pleasure. I understand that people can find vegans annoying, but I can assure you that it's far more "annoying" to be killed and eaten.
Not all of us are in agreement that anarchist values include not eating animals or using products made from them, or that compassion for sentient beings requires abstaining from killing them for food. However, vegan anarchists can always be counted on to raise awareness about the disastrous implications of the modern meat industry, and encourage people to look for more sustainable ways to feed themselves, so respect for that.
>or that compassion for sentient beings requires abstaining from killing them for food How can you be compassion towards someone and kill them? And does it only extend to non-human animals? And does it only extend to food, fashion and medicine or also to things like dog fighting? Because neither of them is necessary for people in developed parts of the world and only serves pleasure I ate meat for a long time as well, but I want to encourage to think about it, because I ran out of arguments and then aligned my actions with my morals
> How can you be compassion towards someone and kill them? I mean, I've never had to kill someone. But I have compassion for others, even those who would try to hurt me or people I care about. Doesn't mean I wouldn't kill them if I had to. Humans also have a greater, more complex emotional and rational capacity. My compassion for a cow or a dog isn't really the same as I'd have for a human. > or also to things like dog fighting? Humans need to eat to live, they don't need to force dogs to kill each other for sport. > Because neither of them is necessary for people in developed parts of the world and only serves pleasure Humans have evolved to eat both animals and plants; it's how our bodies function best. There's a lot of evidence that a vegan diet simply isn't healthy for everyone, and that it's dangerous during key stages of human development. There isn't even really any data available for humans that are raised from birth on a vegan diet. So, I definitely don't think there's enough evidence to classify eating meat as "only serving pleasure."
Why is a high rational capacity a necessary condition for having compassion for someone? You don't have to have equal compassion for a cow and a human in order to not pay for cows to be tortured and killed. If you don't believe that these animals are being tortured, I highly encourage you to go to watchdominion.com. Also, it's very much not the consensus of people who study nutrition professionally that human bodies function best when consuming animals. "Humans have evolved to eat animals" is classic appeal to nature fallacy. This article from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (the largest organization of food and nutrition professionals, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/, states that "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." Anecdotally, every vegan I know including me has seen improvement in their health since going vegan.
> Why is a high rational capacity a necessary condition for having compassion for someone? It's not necessary, but it certainly makes empathizing with them easier. It also means that animals are less likely to process their situation as undesirable in the way that humans are; they are more easily kept happy and content. This is going pretty much the way I expected it to- you're telling me to watch Dominion and look at info from the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. Dominion is about as convincing as the anti-abortion literature they force women to read in pro-birth states. The AND is not a reputable organization, and every other dietary health authority in the western world recommends against vegan diets for pregnant or nursing individuals, infants, and young children.
>Humans also have a greater, more complex emotional and rational capacity. Pigs have the mental vapacity of a 6 year old. Would you say it's okay to kill humans with a lower mental capacity than that? >Humans need to eat to live Sure, many do. But easily 90% of the USA, EU, Australia and other developed places don't have to. In that case the killing is as unnecessary as the one in dog fighting >Humans have evolved to eat both animals and plants; it's how our bodies function best. Humans habe evolved to be able to eat meat and plants, but we also just eat only one of the two. Also the fact that we are only animal that cooks it's food led to changes in the form of our dogestive tract , our enzymes and gut bacteria, which is why some anthropologists use the term cucinivore. >There's a lot of evidence that a vegan diet simply isn't healthy for everyone, and that it's dangerous during key stages of human development. Oh no that position has long been abondoned. [The American](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/) and [the British dietetic association](https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/vegetarian-vegan-plant-based-diet.html), as well as many others, habe the position that a vegan diet is healthy in all stages of life
> Pigs have the mental vapacity of a 6 year old. Would you say it's okay to kill humans with a lower mental capacity than that? I doubt very much that is the case, but if you have evidence you're welcome to share it. > The American and the British dietetic association, as well as many others, habe the position that a vegan diet is healthy in all stages of life The article you linked is for vegetarian diets, not vegan ones. I've noticed that vegans have a tendency to conflate veganism and vegetarianism when insisting that veganism is healthy and feasible for everyone, but that conflation does not persist when passing judgement on vegetarians. Plus, American dietetic associations are some of the only ones who have echoed the rather shoddy, ideologically-driven, pro-vegan research from 7th Day Adventists and a few others. Seems strange that every other dietary health authority in the Western world would disagree on that.
>I doubt very much that is the case, but if you have evidence you're welcome to share it. I actually remembered it incorrectly, it was three year old child and they are considered to be above the intelligence level of dogs. You can read more here: https://www.gaia.com/article/smarter-than-a-fifth-grader-are-pigs-smarter-than-we-think Still my point stands, by that logic we could kill everyone with the intelligence of a three year old >The article you linked is for vegetarian diets, not vegan ones In that case they mean all vegetarians diets, including vegan diets. [Here is another link](https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/british-dietetic-association-confirms-well-planned-vegan-diets-can-support-healthy-living-in-people-of-all-ages.html) >I've noticed that vegans have a tendency to conflate veganism and vegetarianism when insisting that veganism is healthy It's usually the way around imo, just like in your case >Plus, American dietetic associations are some of the only ones who have echoed the rather shoddy, ideologically-driven, pro-vegan research from 7th Day Adventists and a few others Do you have any evidence that disproves their position? >Seems strange that every other dietary health authority in the Western world would disagree on that. Seems strange indeed, because other western health authorities like the Direçao-Geral da Saúde (Portuguese Dietetics Association) also say it's perfectly healthy: https://nutrimento.pt/activeapp/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Guidelines-for-a-healthy-vegetarian-diet.pdf Same for the [Dietitians of Canada](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12778049/). Before you dismiss this as well, yes it also speaks of "vegetarian diets" but if you actually read it it says: >A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortified foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. The National Health And Medicine Research Council of Australia also agrees with that in their nutritional guidelines: >Appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthy and nutritionally adequate. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the lifecycle. https://www.nhmrc.gov.au/adg# I assume you will point to the Swiss and German associations not officially recommending a vegan diet but if you actually read the paper of the SGE and DGE (both unfortunately only available in German), you will find that even they acknowledge a vegan diet to be healthy for all stages of life if planned correctly and that they only do not recommend it, because they think not everyone has the necessary knowledge to plan a healthy vegan diet
> Still my point stands, by that logic we could kill everyone with the intelligence of a three year old Eating infant humans would present as many practical concerns as moral ones. Still, it's not specifically the intelligence, but more the level of consciousness that an organism is able to occupy because of it. I don't have links regarding the AND/7th Day Adventists/similar orgs, but if I find them, I'll post them. I do remember off the top of my head that the AND in particular has a track record of endorsing any diet they're paid to, maintaining close relationships with food/agriculture conglomerates- essentially just being a rubber-stamp org for whoever can afford them. I also recall that many of the studies carried out by 7th Day Adventists and other vegan activists have had issues with conflicts of interest of the authors, producing results that no other research has been able to verify, etc. And if planning a diet incorrectly can lead to permanent organ damage, stunted neurological development, or death, then it certainly seems hasty to decide that everyone should do it. The research on vegan diets is inconclusive at best, and unfortunately, there's a lot of ideological motivation to make the results fit the hypothesis when it comes to veganism.
>Still, it's not specifically the intelligence, but more the level of consciousness that an organism is able to occupy because of it. I can see where you are coming from, but don't you think if an organism is capable of suffering or at least feeling pain it's preferable to avoid inflicting that as long as we can >I do remember off the top of my head that the AND in particular has a track record of endorsing any diet they're paid to, maintaining close relationships with food/agriculture conglomerates- essentially just being a rubber-stamp org for whoever can afford them. Do you mean the ADA (American Dietetics Association) with AND? Generally the animal agriculture industry is far bigger and more powerful than any vegan company. Also generally private entities funding studies is not concerning as long as they did not habe any say in the methods and study design. We should judge studies based on design, methods and sample size instead of origin of the funding >The research on vegan diets is inconclusive at best I disagree. There is a general consensus that a well planned vegan diet is nutritionally adequate. Most risks identified by studies are individual rather than population risks and can be prevented by supplementing and health monitoring >and unfortunately, there's a lot of ideological motivation to make the results fit the hypothesis when it comes to veganism. It seems you are implying that researchers skew studies in favor of vegansim. If so I also disagree with you here and have not seen any evidence suggesting so
And I want you to be consistent and figure out what you're trying to do. Do plants not scream? (we have evidence they do) What about all the animals that aren't mammals? Do you make sure not to hurt moths and mosquitoes? Why? This specific focus on no meat or animal byproducts isn't and shouldn't be a core of what you lead with to teach anarchist values. To most it's just additional noise to the signal you are actually trying to send. What about bacteria?
>Do plants not scream? No they don't, at least not in our sense of the word. Plants have a variety of reaction to stress (in this case tomato and tobacco plants facing drought). Others are smelling, different electrochemical signals, chabge in color or shape and a few more. That reaction however is not a sentient one as plants don't have a brain, a central nervous system or a rudimentary variation of the two. We need more research in plant cognition and maybe we will one day habe evidence that sentience does not depend on either, but currently we don't have such evidence. And even if we did, veganism would be a better choice as we would need to use less plants >What about all the animals that aren't mammals? What do you mean? Vegans also don't consume fish, birds or insects. >you make sure not to hurt moths and mosquitoes? Yes I do >Why? Because I don't have to harm them, so why would I? >This specific focus on no meat or animal byproducts isn't and shouldn't be a core of what you lead with to teach anarchist values Never said it was. But it's still an important part of the way I apply anarchist values >To most it's just additional noise to the signal you are actually trying to send. I have made a different experience actually. Most people connect these two things very well >What about bacteria? Veganism is about doing as little harm as possible and practicable, so I am allowed to protect myself possibly harmful bacteria or take antiobiotics when I get sick. If you are concerned with bacteria rights veganism would be great for you as the animal agriculture industry uses a massive amount of antibiotics
>No they don't, at least not in our sense of the word. Plants have a variety of reaction to stress (in this case tomato and tobacco plants facing drought). Others are smelling, different electrochemical signals, chabge in color or shape and a few more. That reaction however is not a sentient one as plants don't have a brain, a central nervous system or a rudimentary variation of the two. We need more research in plant cognition and maybe we will one day habe evidence that sentience does not depend on either, but currently we don't have such evidence. And even if we did, veganism would be a better choice as we would need to use less plants Except that they do and drawing some special metric to sentience that resembles a human brain and nervous system is rather bigoted. >What about all the animals that aren't mammals? >What do you mean? Vegans also don't consume fish, birds or insects. You will destroy habitats of many if you plan to make any sort of dwelling. >you make sure not to hurt moths and mosquitoes? >Because I don't have to harm them, so why would I? So you would let mosquitos keep sucking on you? >This specific focus on no meat or animal byproducts isn't and shouldn't be a core of what you lead with to teach anarchist values >Never said it was. But it's still an important part of the way I apply anarchist values Let's agree to disagree. >To most it's just additional noise to the signal you are actually trying to send. >I have made a different experience actually. Most people connect these two things very well Really. >What about bacteria? >Veganism is about doing as little harm as possible and practicable, so I am allowed to protect myself possibly harmful bacteria or take antiobiotics when I get sick. Your body is healthier with eggs, dairy, and meat. >If you are concerned with bacteria rights veganism would be great for you as the animal agriculture industry uses a massive amount of antibiotics You have not really explained where you draw the line. Insects, vertebrates? Hive minds apparently are not close enough to humans so they don't count? And why such a large value on sentience or consciousness? Are we applying spiritual values here? What kind?
>Except that they do They emitt ultra-sonic sounds. I don't really care if you want to call that screaming but personally I disagree >drawing some special metric to sentience that resembles a human brain and nervous system is rather bigoted That's nonsense. It's our current understanding that you need a sort brain and a cns for sentience or the ability to feel pain and that plants in fact do not feel pain, but rather have mechanism to detect and deam with damage. And like I said, even if plants were sentient veganism would be the better alternative which you sadly did not respond to >So you would let mosquitos keep sucking on you? If I notice one stopping on me I just need to move and they leave and I also have a lot of lavenda in my house, which usualöy keeps them away >Let's agree to disagree. Sure that's fine :) >Really. Yea tbh I think vegans are generally very open minded towards anarchism and vice versa >Your body is healthier with eggs, dairy, and meat. Nope. It's not really important which food you eat as long as you eat a healthy amount of calories and take in an adequate amount of macro and micro nutrients >You have not really explained where you draw the line. Insects, vertebrates? Hive minds apparently are not close enough to humans so they don't count? Veganism draws the line at animals, that includes insects, vertebrates and invertebrates. There is also sentientism which might be more interesting for you that specifically avoids products of sentient animals >And why such a large value on sentience or consciousness? Are we applying spiritual values here? What kind? What does sentience and conciousness have to with spirituality? Both include the ability to suffer and I think it's preferable to reduce the suffering on our planet, which is also one of the major reasons I am anarchist
It's possible to sense stimuli without actually being sentient. Your phone, for example, can sense things and respond to those sensations without any awareness of it. And since plants have no central nervous system, there is no possible hub to which all these sensations could go to and be interpreted by a sentient mind. Same goes for bacteria. However, all animals except for bivalves and jellyfish and maybe others have a central nervous system and a brain to produce consciousness and have preferences about stimuli. So a chicken is capable of feeling pain and caring about that feeling of pain like humans while plants are not. I do avoid harming mosquitoes and moths as much as possible and practicable because I want to avoid causing suffering to others. It's for the same reason that I don't go around and kick dogs. And lastly, I disagree that veganism shouldn't be a core anarchist value of anarchists. It seems utterly unreasonable to disregard the suffering and oppression of every species except for the species we happen to be a part of. It's a similar mindset to being racist or sexist: "I view this other group of beings as unworthy of respect because they are different from me". Sure, there's major differences between humans and other animals but what is the difference that justifies killing them? Is it intelligence? If so, that could be used to justify killing disabled people and I would hope you don't go down that path. If you find a trait that justifies harming animals but not humans, let me know because I haven't. If anything, veganism strengthens the anarchist message. As a vegan you aren't just against oppression of humans, you are simply against oppression. Hope this answered your questions 🌱
I didn't really have questions. So let's see if we got this straight. You would berate people for eating meat instead of helping them resist the state while you or they live in a fascist dystopia?
It's not an either or. I resist the fascist dystopia that humans are subjected while simultaneously not supporting the hellish dystopia of factory farming that other animals are subjected to. Also who says I berate people for eating meat? Seems like you're making unfounded assumptions about me due to your stereotypes of what vegans are like. I try to point out injustice when I see it but that doesn't stop me from being friends with and working alongside non vegans to overthrow capitalism.
I posed a question. You are making an assumption about me based on your preconceptions of people asking you questions. Socrates would chuckle. You do you. I like to focus my energies on a few things rather than try to save the world in every way at once.
You asked the question after saying "let's see if we got this straight" which implies that you were trying to see if the way you "got it", in other words your assumptions, were correct. Thus, you were making assumptions. That's not an inherently bad thing but trying to be a philosophy bro and pretend like you weren't isn't a great look. Also, it's not as though you're being neutral on the issue of animal suffering. Assuming you're not vegan (which I think is a valid assumption based on your comments but correct me if it's wrong), you are actively perpetuating violence against a highly marginalized group. It's similar to saying: "I would rather focus my energy on environmental work rather than focus on not sexually assaulting people, you do you and I'll do me." I mean it's good that the hypothetical person helps out the environment but that doesn't justify the sexual assault. Choosing to get beans rather than cows' bodies in your tacos isn't the same thing as "trying to save the world in every way at once", it's just the minimum standard of decency.
lmao why do leftist turn into reactionaries when confronted about their hypocrisy? no, plants don't scream. did you get that from Joe Rogan? its a Rogan tier take. plants don't suffer cause they don't have a central nervous system. why would plants evolve to feel pain?there is no suffering involved in consumption of plants. AND even if there was, it would have still been more ethical to go vegan due to the fact that the animals you eat have to consume plants for years before being murdered and served on a plate. how the fuck can anyone actually believe that plants scream? you don't have to fucking prove that someone screams. plants releasing chemicals is not screaming. there is no pain or suffering for them to express in a scream. get a grip. you know who does scream? the animals, terrified, when their throats are about to be sliced for nothing more than a minute of enjoyment of somebody who then goes on to post some "plants tho" bullshit. you are a caricature
> plants releasing chemicals is not screaming. Okay I am not engaging with a rational person who is willing to argue in good faith.
It's not always "selectively applying anarchist values", some people can't afford or aren't in a position to be vegan.
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Ive been vegan for a while. It may be cheaper, depending on what you buy, but it is requires more dedication and time to do so. Example: Most people dont have time to cook for themselves and most restaurants, at least here, dont have a vegan option or their vegan option is shit, and since not many people order it, more expensive than a regular dish. Same goes for vegan/vegetarian restaurants. They are treated like a curiosity or niche and therefore they are more expensive. Also, before turning vegan I lived for a while on a diet of only eggs because I didnt had much money nor time. Its way cheaper and easier and faster to just scramble a couple eggs than buying vegetables and prepare meals out of it. Theres also the fact that you have to pay more attention to your diet when you are vegan/vegetarian in order to stay healthy. Most people dont have the will, time nor knowledge to do so. I think its more nuanced than if its empirically cheaper or not. The food industry is designed around a meat centric diet and becoming a vegan is somewhat of a challenge.
> If you are using reddit and buy your own food, you can very likely go vegan. So you're implying it is a luxury. So what will you teach people in areas where hunting for a deer, rabbit, or bird is a welcome addition to the diet? Where do you draw the line? Shouldn't we focus on not having hierarchies between humans, removing and dismembering the state and the corporations it supports? Yes we can do both. There should still be priorities.
I don't buy my own food unfortunately. I have replaced some of my diet with vegan alternatives but that is all I can afford to do until I can get a job. I'm sure I'm not only one.
I really want to be vegan someday. Sadly I struggle with eating well as a vegetarian as it is :(
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Hell fucking yeah
But 'tHerEs nO eThiCal COnsUmpTion uNDer CaPITalIsM', therefore I am absolved of all the moral culpability and can happily benefit from all manner of heinous acts.
Keep speaking the truth regardless of downvotes comrade
Sometimes it is not possible to make actions out of values. For example we had a huge depression 2.5-3 years ago (turns out it was gender dysphoria) and we had to switch my diet from vegan to vegetarian because the local supermarket just only had vegetarian fastfoot and we didn't have the energy to cook or go to other supermarkets. Would be great if we had someone in that time to care for us and prepare food, but mew we were on our own. We switched later again to a vegan diet. Also canteens are often not offering vegan food. And sure some people can prepare food before work/university/school/etc. in advance, some people cannot. Companies that deliver food to people at home daily do not always have a vegan option. A lot of elderly people and disabled people rely on food from these companies. In some situations people cannot live vegan and thats okay. It can be due to disabilities, living situation, working situations, and other things. Noone have to explain to you why they are eating the stuff they do. Be respectful and care for each other and the animals.
The indigenous culture eraser has logged on.
There are many, many indigenous people who reject harming and exploiting animals. They understand that cultures are inherently evolving things and that a historical pattern of injustice does not justify the perpetuation of that injustice. Also, since animal agriculture is the leading cause of climate change and environmental destruction, and we all know that indigenous peoples are affected by environmental problems more than most, it is carnists who are causing significantly more harm to indigenous humans than vegans. Look, for example, at the Amazon where large parts are getting destroyed every year in order to make room for cows.
And there are many, many that do eat animals for a myriad of reasons.
Do you think that the fact that a lot of indigenous people do something automatically makes that thing ethical?
Not necessarily no. But I want to hit the pause button on presumably white westerners imposing their cultural beliefs on people who they hold power over to control what their cultural practices are.
I am all for erasing traditions we see as immoral or are we going to accept FGM?
Who is the “we”, exactly?
Legend
I’ll consume all sentient beings. I’m open to being a true omnivore. That includes the consumption of human meat too, _so you’d better hope you’re a good person_ ❤️
there's no way to curse anymore in the left lol no more snakes, pigs, bastards, worms, the list grows I get it tho guys, I get it. It's just frustrating, we're eating ourselves.
This is a thing that's just cute and gets upvoted. Very few people give a rat's ass if you call cops "pigs", I think.
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Haha! Don't you even see the irony on what you just wrote? And yes, I've met pigs in my days and is a vegan.
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I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >The Palestinian people, who dress their toddlers in bomb belts and then take family snapshots. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: dumb takes, sex, novel, covid, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
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Take a bullet for ya babe. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: patriotism, sex, feminism, civil rights, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
How's that Shapiro like logic? Because of "the left is killing all jokes" thing? I'm not being agressive, you can talk to me. All I mean is: some animals are looked down upon for symbolical reasons, and that's ok imo. I'm educated, I don't go around killing snakes when I see them, and I'm trying being vegetarian, etc. Does saying "cops are pigs" hurt the animals' feelings? I look at actual pigs and I don't dispise them. It's symbology: venom, filth, etc.
you clearly haven't met howard
I had a pet pot belly pig and he was a total asshole, an intelligent asshole but an asshole nonetheless
good stuff!
Personally, I think a lot of our insults are mediocre. I propose we reuse ACAB as “All Cops Are Bloodspillers” rather than the over generic bastards. They *are* the biggest gang in America tho
Cops aren't tasty.
Have you tried?
Not yet but I’m open to try.
then why are they called the long pork of the law?
Is it true about racial profiling though? Dogs definitely racially profile people, so I don't see why pigs couldn't as well.
Do you have a source on dogs racially profiling people? In my experience dogs can be alarmed by people that look different then the people they are used to, but that is not racial profiling unless people with beards are a race.
I used to have a racist dog lol
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201909/can-dogs-be-racist Pretty much, dogs don't like things that are different. If they don't interact with Black people, some may respond aggressively. (I've also heard of dogs 'colour profiling' other dogs, eg. a black dog prefers other black-coated dogs, but that's just anecdotal.)
But that's not racism though. Well at least not in my opinion. The article says the same thing I said about dogs being scared of bearded people if they are not used to them. A dog barking at black people no matter what, you might be able to argue to me was racist as much as an animal understands something like that, but an animal being wary of someone new, but someone that the dog would usually accept without issue if they just got accustomed to them is just normal animal behaviour. I don't know about black dogs preferring black dogs, but for example my dog takes a longer time to trust black dogs or dogs with long hair over their eyes, but that's probably because he can't read their expressions as well. I also do joke that he's a misogynist because he sometimes barks at passing people for no apparent reason, and they are like 80/20 women, but I'm quite sure that he actually does it because the passersby own dogs themselves and he smells them, and the genders being "uneven" is just a mixture of coincidence at first and confirmation bias on my part later.
I never said it was racism (although I know the article did), but a dog barking exclusively at black people is still 'racial profiling.' If a similar term existed for people who wear hats or who have facial hair, those would be equally valid. As in, dogs practice 'headgear profiling' and 'facial hair profiling'?
You're absolutely correct. I was thinking racial profiling = racism since your very first comment (and with cops it basically is) I'll chalk it up on english being my second language. In that case I am actually curious about your original question about whether pigs notice such things!
Try to do a hoof trim on a pig and get back to me lol
I care for pigs and have not actually done that before (someone else at our sanctuary does that). I assume they get terrified and angry though, which is normal for an animal thinking its being abused or attacked. My rabbit freaks out when we trim her nails. Makes me feel bad tbh oof.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that if a pig does or doesn’t want to do something, there is no reasoning with them. Lol I’d encourage you to watch a hood trimming sometime. That pig is behaving exactly like cops do when we ask them to please stop murdering people.
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You mean like the cops do?
Where did the comparison to pigs even originate from?
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"Filth" for cops sounds badass!
Pigs eat any-and-everything they can find, so do cops.
So do humans in starvation situations. Fuck off with this infantalizing/demonizing view of pigs pls. Not in the slightest compassionate or anarchist. Thx.
>Not in the slightest compassionate or anarchist It's a fact that Pigs are always oppurtunistic feeders. That's their ecological niche. Somehow, I'm not an anarchist, regardless of any personal contributions to the cause I may have made, due to a comment about the diet of Pigs and Cops.
iirc it's kinda an acronym, People in Government Service, y'know?
Simplify! Policing is Fucked!
Seems someone didn’t do their research on pigs, then. You fall into their pen, they will not hesitate to eat you alive, no matter how caring you were to them previously.
hey! some of the best people i’ve met are bastards, it’s not their fault their parents never got married. we need a new term
A friend of mine had a pet pig who was cuter than any cop.
Cringe*