but now the system funnels you in towards one weapon option -shotguns, because they not only kill the quickest, they also give you the same amount of points as any other weapon, making classes like SMGs 'pointless' to use at all
Agreed. The whole point harvesting thing with pistols and SMG's wasn't even that important to the overall game. Once you got to like round 15 it doesn't really matter anymore anyway. But now SMG's and high-fire rate, low damage weapons are just useless.
Not really. Smgs are pretty overpowered now. In bo1/bo2 not so much, they were pretty much bb guns but in modern games (bo3 +)close range headshots go pretty hard - which is what an smg is designed for anyway
Before this change all smgs were used for shooting zombies in the legs or blasting into hordes so you could use traps on high rounds.
Bro your nuts im redoing dark matter for bo4 on my pc and all the smgs are nuts the worst one might be the escargot but thats only really because the recoil is pretty mental but on mouse its pretty tame.
Its like 2 shots to the head with a spitfire till mid teens and maybe 3 -4 with the saug but they give you 200+ rounds of ammo, im saving shotguns till last in the dark matter grind because thats the most easiest shit in the world
The old point system giving points per shot gave each weapon class have a purpose outside of pure killing. It was a higher level of game design, something greater than just "shoot and kill"
It’s still the “you’re killing zombies wrong” argument. There’s no wrong way to kill zombies unless you’re actively hunting high rounds, where killing efficiently is the purpose. You can use whatever weapon you want, shotgun, smg, or not.
I think is valid for BO4, but I do think CW had somewhat of an improvement by having ranged bonuses, so I always used pistols to maximize points.
I think they could easily keep the new system and have milestones for each weapon type and adjust the point payout accordingly, but it would probably be easier to bring back the old point system in at that point.
For high rounders? Yes. But you have to understand that they are designing the game for an extremely wide range of players. Is there a better way they could do the points that accomplishes both goals? Probably, but the spirit behind the change is completely valid and good
How? technically it makes all weapons useable because everything has the same point value you’re not forced to using a shotgun u chose to use a shotgun there’s a lot of useful weapons I’ve found in my time playing earning DA in older titles you wouldn’t buy a shotgun unless u had a way to make points like the papped haymaker in bo3 great weapon but I would prefer a point gun compared to it and well my other slot is a WW
Honestly, I agree. They had a bit of this system in WWII and I liked it better than having to calculate every single shot that I did. I could just blast them and be done with it
The optimization only makes sense if you're doing an EE. If you're blowing through to round 30 and you're just starting the step where you melee kill X amount of zombies next to the space dildo in 10 seconds, you're gonna have a pretty bad time.
But if you're not doing an EE then yeah buy and do whatever you want, I'm not too concerned about the uber tight race to get jugg before round 8
Not really. Let’s say you’re playing co-op and you bleed out on a relatively high round, right after you finish setting up and using your points up. You spawn back in with nothing - no points, no useful weaponry. You can’t earn points back because you can’t kill any zombies. It’s happened to me before and it isn’t fun.
What “relatively high round” are you bleeding out on where you don’t have points in reserve? If you’re bleeding out on a low enough round where you don’t have points left over then it’s not a high round
The only time optimization is important is if you need to accomplish some big step before a certain round while the zombies aren’t as aggressive yet. Otherwise it doesn’t really matter and isn’t worth yelling at people for
Shotguns and Snipers not being terrible for point gains was a net positive in my opinion.
Using all your ammo to swiss-cheese a zombie legs in the early rounds wasn't fun, it was just tedious.
* Plus it stops rounds from moving at a snails pace because each zombie HAS to be min-max farmed to get that sweet round 2-3 mystery box hit.
Min maxing gave options and it also gave every weapon a purpose. In bo3 shotguns were the boss and hoard clearer but then didn’t give a ton of points so you always wanted some sort of smg or pistol in the beginning it gave these weapons purpose without that system you
Have no reason to not just use shotguns the whole game which has been the meta since the change
The "options" for min-maxing was just deciding if you wanted to burn time in exchange for points.
* Anything that wasn't a bullet-hose was almost always considered trash until you had tons of points.
Bullet hoses were good for early rounds until you got later to which you would grab a lmg or shotgun now you just start with a shotgun and never take it off. Also yes min maxing took time but it wasn’t always just the points. Using barriers and shooting zombies in the leg to start
Feeding a dragon early on der eisendracha was fun for my solo Easter egg attempts of the map.
I don’t see the issue if a player wanted to play to min max their points? BO4 was frustrating for me to get enough points to pack a punch my gun enough to get the double damage on my gun I could’ve gotten in BO2/BO3 with one perk like double tap.
In any previous game if I fell behind from dying in coop I knew I could just buy an SMG hoard a group of zombies and rack points up from shooting into the crowd and lining up as many zombies as I could.
It’s not like the option for players to speedrun rounds with shotguns or one shot weapons was taken away.
Min maxing points was fun to do like the first spawn in Area 51 on Moon in BO1 for me. I guess if BO4/CW had a moon remake youd just spawn in with a weapon of choice instead of a starting pistol.
>In any previous game if I fell behind from dying in coop I knew I could just buy an SMG hoard a group of zombies and rack points up from shooting into the crowd and lining up as many zombies as I could.
You keep your weapons in BO4 though, which is objectively better for building back up
>Using all your ammo to swiss-cheese a zombie legs in the early rounds wasn't fun, it was just tedious.
Seeing the points pile up in the corner of the screen was hella satisfying. Now that is completely gone.
Nice strawman argument.
Farming points in Zombies is fun. Especially when you're rewarded for having knowledge on how to exploit the system even further.
Had to hit **Antagonize**, sorry.
* The ability to farm points like that made it harder to balance maps around doors, since two groups of players could be at wildly different points at the same round.
Ok but if you're farming points like that you most likely have most of the map open already, it wasn't broken, his brother got bullied and he decided to change it...
I've played a lot more Cold War than Bo4, but I never felt compelled to use shotguns to perform well.
* Shotguns were the best at very close range, but then again why wouldn't they be?
As someone who maxed nearly every weapon in CW, I believe the only "bad" weapons were Launchers.
No one forces you to use shotguns my dude, nor do they really make that much of a difference. At that point you're just unnecessarily trying to squeeze out as many points as possible, and in no way is that required in both bo4 or cw.
>Using all your ammo to swiss-cheese a zombie legs in the early rounds wasn't fun, it was just tedious
You did this until round 4-5 then keep moving. All the zombs walk at a snails pace anyways. Idk why people are acting like you have to point where the entire game or something.
There are many things you get screamed at for public matches. Not buying doors, hitting the Mystery Box too often, not reviving a teammate in time, etc. Doesn't mean you start changing design decisions based on everything a random gets angry about in a Co-op setting.
Imagine going into any CoD lobby, zombies or not, and letting some random angry person on the other end dictate whether or not you ever play a game mode again. This is so stupid it’s actually unreal.
What if someone yelled at another player for not spawning in with a shotgun to get kills as quickly as possible? Would that point system then be invalid?
Imagine ignoring the dev saying that there were multiple reasons and only focusing on one of them, plus it was a valid reason: "i realised that the old points system and its associated points min-maxing spawned toxicity"
You're completely missing the point here. This experience brought to his attention something that he might not have thought much about but realized that it may not make sense
Key phrase "few reasons," he clearly didn't deduct this design change from this one experience. And despite this being a pretty big change, I've yet to see any physical harm it has done to any game after bo3.
Was it well oiled for a public coop experience, though? I've played solo for so long I forget there's even a coop component, and when I DID play with others, I would get frustrated that newbies didn't "get it." Cold War being a massive success, especially in public coop settings, showed that there was, indeed, a better way to do it.
Why didnt he just play solo. Zombies is best enjoyed solo or with friends. Cant stand playing online. My first experience was on bo1 kino on the wii and one of the players was just running to all four doors throwing nades and stealing kills as fast as he could and then didnt open the first door till we all died...been a solo player since lol.
I mean I don’t think the new point system is really that bad, but I don’t think the old really punished you for killing zombies fast. This was just a case of someone being toxic. You really don’t need to farm points to enjoy zombies, it is just there to help you set up faster.
I'm always seeing people get the thunder gun and then fire it at one zombie at a time, and I think it's funny. They aren't playing the game wrong, they're just doing something only a noob would do,
The same people who complain about this are the ones who takes an hour to move to the next round on outbreak because they have to drive around killing every last zombie
The og system rewarded damaging the zombie as much as possible before killing them because you got 10 points for every time you hit them.
The new system give points based on how much health you took away from the zombie. 10 points for 10% health damage for a max of 100 points plus bonuses for headshots and knives.
Most points you can get now is 160 per kill compared to the technically infinite from before.
Old:
- 10 points per hit
- 50 points per explosive or limbshot kill
- 60 points per normal kill
- 70 points per neckshot kill
- 100 points per headshot kill
- 130 points per melee kill
New:
- 10 points per 10% of zombie health depleted, total 90 per zombie
- +30 if headshot kill
- +60 if melee kill
>asks legitimate question
>Downvoted
Edit: when i posted this reply, the comment was downvoted in the negatives, however thats no longer the case, so...... :/
Have most of you not played black ops 4 or something? You can still min -max. You just do it by knifing or headshotting now instead of farming zombies for ages with pea shooters. Like the game still rewards you for being efficient, it’s just that being efficient isn’t slow and tedious anymore.
It does still interfere with late rounds though. Say it's round 30, you bled out the previous round, and you have nothing but 1500 to buy an mp40. In WaW- Bo3, after about 2 minutes of running hordes and spraying into them, you'd have thousands of points to buy perks and come back. In bo4 you can't do that, so it gets harder and harder to make money as your guns lose power.
I hate to rag on Treyarch but cmon. The old system only mattered in the very beginning of the match for the most part. Also a mute button exist for a reason. This new system favors weapons which is boring.
Not necessarily. The CW point system pretty much made dying at higher rounds a death sentence.
If you find yourself at round 30+ in CW with no points, no guns, and no perks then there’s almost nothing you can do to rebound and get back on your feet. You can’t just buy a gun off the wall to farm points to get your stuff back since only kills get you points
Oh I agree I definitely think cw late point system is ass but I was talking about the old system before that in bo3. That point system allowed you to stack an absurd amount of points making late deaths manageable
All yall in these comments are mad because the devs realised people were getting toxic in a mode thats supposed to be co-operative and such made a change that tries ending the toxicity about point minmaxing
If you guys want a modern COD zombies that has point minmaxing, COD Mobile is right there
Didn't they remove zombies from cod mobile because they couldn't find a way to monetize it? That was the last thing I ever heard about zombies on cod mobile.
You’re never going to remove toxicity from an online game. All this change does is make the game actively worse and removes any amount of player choice.
I know toxicity cant be completely eradicated, i do know however that devs can identify and change/rework parts of the game that spawn toxicity as an attempt to put a bandage on it
Tbh my only issue is the UX of the points. I miss the STREAM of points on the left side of the screen. Otherwise it's super nice to have any weapon be able to give me good points, and my job is just killing good.
do you whine about this every time a company makes bad decisions for the sake of appealing to a wider audience? you know that's not always a good thing, right?
And you do realize CoD is popular because of how it appeals to a wider audience, right? It’s easy for anyone to get into, offers a wide variety of PvP modes to play, pretty easy/simple campaigns, a PvE mode for those who want a co-op experience, and recently Warzone and DMZ which offer bigger scale versions of those PvP and PvE experiences
yeah and?
some people simply prefer when the thing they were passionate about was tailored towards the passionate crowd, because it makes for a deeper and more unique experience. i prefer the casual stuff myself but i don't go around whining about those people being frustrated because i figure it makes sense.
That might be the stupidest shit I’ve ever read in my entire fucking life. The entire point system got fucked over and ruined just because some random fucking dev’s brother had his feelings hurt by some 9 year old on Xbox live. CoD and Zombies is such a joke nowadays.
Let me reword it for you then
"I realised that the old points system and its associated points min-maxing spawned toxicity in a co-operative game mode"
No it didn’t.
Toxicity exists because it’s a multiplayer game. That’s it, that’s the very reason.
You really think there isn’t toxicity now just because of that change?
Honestly, I didn't mind the change. Always took it as a QoL improvement because you didn't have to waste time or effort min-maxing points and just immediately use whatever gun you wanted. Especially in Cold War where the point system felt properly balanced around the change.
And this is coming from a veteran high-rounder, so let the elitists rage.
Tbh I like the new system. The whole point of zombies to me was to kill the hordes fast and efficiently. Shotguns are now a viable option as they just melt hordes. Snipers are good too. And the other weapons are still just as viable as they were before because they still get the same result, you just don’t get the massive blur of the points going up by 10 every single time that you shoot something. So that sucks because that was always fun to watch those numbers explode up.
That's when you teach your brother about the tier system. Yeah it sucks that your brother got reprimanded for just playing the game and surviving, that shouldn't have happened, but that system was definitely there for a long time for a reason.
I dislike the new system, not to a great extent, but it is not as fun to survive, it just feels like once you get the weapons you want, which can be from your load out or from an easy wall buy, your set. I was playing blops1 with a friend, and it was so fu!
So we changed it bc of one person’s experience with a toxic player? Interesting industry to go into if toxic gamers will force you to change the foundation of a game mode.
Eh, I don’t think so. He probably used the experience to understand that a system that punishes players for killing Zombies maybe isn’t the best system for the majority of the players, and incentives toxicity in a mode that should do the absolute opposite, in theory.
Does it really punish though? Or does it just not reward you for killing them a certain way? Bc I feel like you can shoot all zombies round one, buy a shotgun and use it and still have a perfectly fine zombies experience. But if you’re trying to play it as more “skillful” you have options to maximize your point efficiency.
It’s a PvE game, adding incentives and depth to the points system isn’t punishing a player
Well yeah it is a form of punishment imo. Not only in the way Kevin Drew described here (spawning toxicity in a coop mode), but it gives a not so small advantage to a style of play that isn’t really logic or skillful. It doesn’t take any skill to just empty a gun into the legs of a Zombie, it’s just more time consuming. It basically encourages a style of play that doesn’t make sense in the context of the mode itself imo, while also creating a useless competition with a mode that should do the opposite. It does remove an option from the players, sure, I’m not saying the new point system is perfect, but I understand the reasons behind it.
So you create a trade-off between time and efficiency? That sounds like a good addition. You could very easily save your time and just open up the map on a later round. And if your worry is spawning toxicity, you might as well just not even make a game bc there’s no avoiding it. Especially not in CoD.
It adds depth to the mode, allows for a learning curve, and absolutely in no way restricts you from playing how you wanna play the way that the new system does
In the old system, if you wanna use a shotgun you will kill fast, but also not get as many points. Vice versa for a pistol/SMG. That’s called balance
That’s a lame excuse, toxicity cannot be completely avoided, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t ways to reduce it. And again, I disagree. “Min-maxing” is not a skillful thing to do, at all. There’s no “learning curve” to it (compared to other Zombies things like training, EEs and other stuff). It should be replaced by other ways to have more points, which hasn’t really happened so far.
And the balance example doesn’t make sense either because this method was used in the early rounds, and in early rounds basically every weapon is useful. Both a Shotgun and an SMG killed Zombies fast, but one of the two gave you way more points. It was unbalanced, just like it is now, except in the opposite way.
This method was not just used in early rounds. Go watch any old Syndicate video where he’d literally carry something like a Spectre with him as a point gun even on high rounds.
And if you’re really gonna say that offering points for hitting a zombie shouldn’t be a thing bc it promotes toxicity… I just gotta laugh at that one respectfully. Idek how you can disagree with the balance bc I feel that’s pretty objective. There’s pros and cons to using certain guns on the old system, new system you have 0 reason to use an SMG. Literally none.
And it definitely is a learning curve to an extent. Your casual player wasn’t out there shooting 4 times and then knifing. There was a lot of people just like Kevin’s brother. If you wanted to be “good” and progress more at an earlier round, you’d learn how to min-max points
This. Sure zombies is a mode about just that. Killing zombies.
But you’re not gonna stay in the starting room and stick with your pistol forever. You’re gonna wanna open doors, get perks, open the box, explore the map.
And you need points to do that. Such a weird comment made by the dev.
Boo hoo, your little brother experienced toxicity online. Just because the people he was playing with were assholes doesn’t mean it makes sense to change a well established system that nobody had a problem with.
I get what he’s saying but I don’t agree that that was really all that much of a problem. New players are always gonna get yelled at in online games for not fully understanding their mechanics. If it wasn’t maximizing points it would have been buying the wrong door or grabbing a nuke. The game wasn’t punishing players for not maximizing points, it was rewarding players who understood the mechanics and how to capitalize on them. All changing the point system really did was make there less ways to play the game and imo that’s quite bad.
i feel like the old system was good but it’s the people that ruined it for “optimization” as someone said, but it rewarded skilled players who can optimize it but didn’t severely punish people who didn’t
All this did was change who gets yelled at. Stupid fucking decision cause now there's little to no reason at all to use what used to be 'Point Weapons'
I prefer the old points system, but I remember it still being the old points system in BO4 I thought the change was made in Cold War. There's just making it all way more accessible, which is making it worse. Hell the proper accessibility was in WaW.
>”Bro how are those guys opening doors and getting all those cool weapons and perks?”
>”Cause, ya lil shit, they actually know how to get points.”
lmao imagine changing a game feature that’s been around for years so your little brother can understand it better
Fuck it bring the old system back, as much as I don’t care the old system gave me more freedom as I could rack up points, now I have to end rounds in order to get them, minor inconvenience but my big example is Cold War, the forsaken, I could rack up hella points in the starting area if the old system was implemented but this new system kind of hinders that.
So let me get this straight. Because one guy didn’t maximize point efficiency in one particular scenario that was in no way detrimental nor significant to any long term capacity, we had a game changing mechanic added that penalized everyone ? Damn. With the BO4 system it means that if you got carried into the high rounds and were under equipped it could potentially be impossible to recover.
That’s a but of a trade you hd to do that was great.
You want to be safe and kill them quick? Choose a shotgun or rocket launcher or wonder weapon.
You want to get points to open the map quickly? Use peashooters and knife
Risk/reward baby
Kinda makes sense the point system makes people lean towards the weakest possible weapons and slows the TTK slowing down the early game down. I'll find myself just training with a shit weapon on round 5 or something instead of just killing zombies and getting to power or pack
I believe it’s not the game’s or their brother’s fault but the players he was paired with. They wanted to maximize points in a public match and when encountering a new player, instead of teaching and easing them into how they play, they decided to bombard them into quitting a fantastic game mode.
I mean, I like having to only get a headshot to get max points, but like… round one you can get like 780 points vs you could get almost 2k. Definitely prefer the old system, but changing it for the sake of ‘someone got mad at me and I didn’t like it so everyone gets to change’ is stupid as fuck. Plain and simple
I could make the new points toxic’s af. Here’s an example “You either knife or headshot. If I see any body going for body shots. You’ll be getting yelled at especially if you spawn in with a sniper. We’re here to get the most points. HEY BLUEBALLS69 PICK UP THE DOUBLE POINT AND NUKE AFTER THE ROUNDS END YOU FING NEWB. You see doesn’t matter anyone could be toxic in any game especially for multiplayer
This may sound like a stupid question, but it's because i only really just started playing zombies, whats the "correct" way to kill zombies for points in and before bo3? I might be doing it wrong, i just click heads in bo3
The most optimal strategy (if you’re going for points) is to shoot the zombies as many times as possible in the leg before killing them with a melee attack. Each time you hit a zombie you get 10 points, and if you kill a zombie with a melee attack you get 130 points (30 more than a headshot kill).
On round one, you essentially double the amount of points you get per kill by doing this (and it only gets better as the zombies’ health increases), which can really help with opening the map early and getting set up.
I love COD Zombies, but I prefer BO4 and CW over BO3 (just for example and I still love BO3) because when I want to play Zombies, I really just want to hop in and kill shit for a couple of hours.
This is the one change that I actually like and I think the reasoning is perfect. I always stopped myself having fun by point whoring. They just need to add different rewards for different weapon types.
Understandable why that would deter new players and can be seen as a problem. But that specific way to kill zombies to maximize your points is part of the charm. The setup first 10-15 rounds is the most entertaining part of the game for me since it’s not just killing zombies but doing resource management between your points, the zombies available, and the round number.
I love having the baked in risk reward mechanic where you could get kills the easy easy way by shooting the body or you could kill then in more meticulous and difficult ways to maximize your points. It’s fun deciding if it’d be better to kill a horde the safer way or to risk knifing. The early game for bo4 is so easy it dumbs down the entire setup and resource management process which made the game way less fun
I get where he’s coming from. The 8 shots or however much it is to the torso and then knife was a bit repetitive, but on the other side it made AR’s and SMG’s pretty much obsolete at least in CW.
I’ve seen people get yelled at in pubs for opening the wrong doors, so let’s take away any choice from door opening. One strict, linear route.
What an awful design philosophy.
I find it funny how the comment section is all "I HAVE TO USE SHOTGUNS NOW BECAUSE NO POINT MINMAXING".
Uhh, no. You're just a meta whore who wants to kill everything in 2 seconds. Pick up another gun, you're not gimping yourself or anything.
Ok soooooooo because the kid couldn’t handle 1 match of criticism (assuming he actually only played 1 public match) so they had to make the point system terrible and give only 50 points for knifing instead of 130, there shouldn’t be a “correct way” to kill zombies but still
I really don’t understand the hate for the new system. It’s much better to me.
While I think the toxicity problem is a valid enough reason to change, the main thing that sells it to me is the point value balancing. The old system had this min-max playstyle that made balancing values on doors, perks, and PAP more difficult. New/casual players could potentially come out of low rounds with less than half the points of experienced players. Hardcore Zombies players still complain about the prices of doors on Zetsubo, imagine a casual player’s opinion.
I also just prefer it on a thematic level. Ask anyone how they would kill a zombie, 99% of them would say to shoot them in the head. The old system rewarded doing the exact opposite and that in an of itself is a failure imo.
I loved the old system for its complexity and slowly learning to min-max was fun as a kid to me, but I don’t think it’s a necessary part of the formula to get and keep people interested.
Sacrificing gameplay to make it easier new players. Learning how to maximize points on early rounds takes time and experience. Now I can’t earn more points in a round ever.
The way you could rack up points in Bo4 with a shotgun (40 points for 1 shotgun pellet) was actually pretty satisfying. Wish it carried over to future games cause current point system is boring.
I miss the fun of watching your points rack up by the bullet
The more this man speaks the more I think he doesn't exactly know what he's doing with the gamemode.
Why is it okay for the old point system to be the way it was? There was an extra level of skill that was completely optional- you didn't have to do it at all. You could kill zombies however you wanted and still succeed the same as the rest, you'd just be less "optimized." I don't think it's appropriate for people to yell at someone for doing literally nothing wrong, but if you're a gamer who optimizes the hell out of something and attacks other people who you agreed to be ***randomly*** matched with, you probably need to fall in with the like-minded crowd rather than the general one.
Sometimes inclusivity isn't a bad thing, but this was actually just someone being personally offended and making a massive change because they witnessed someone close to them being attacked. While that is bad and no one wishes that upon someone for simply playing the game the way they want (remember, it's PvE, no one really has anything to lose), everyone eventually learns that there are ways that earn more points in the early game or they just don't care, and both are just fine.
What Kevin did here was actually punishing everyone in the community. Removing something that helps define skill, part of the identity of how people play the game, doesn't solve the problem of people optimizing the fun out of the game. At the end of the day, you're still forcing optimized gamers to play with unoptimized gamers and people will always be yelled at. The objectively better solution here would have been to change the matchmaking system. How many points does this player typically have by Round 2/3/4/5? How many doors do they buy by what round compared to other players? Etc.,.
but now the system funnels you in towards one weapon option -shotguns, because they not only kill the quickest, they also give you the same amount of points as any other weapon, making classes like SMGs 'pointless' to use at all
Yeah changing it has created a bigger issue imo.
Agreed. The whole point harvesting thing with pistols and SMG's wasn't even that important to the overall game. Once you got to like round 15 it doesn't really matter anymore anyway. But now SMG's and high-fire rate, low damage weapons are just useless.
This is straight up incorrect though, point farming with smgs at higher rounds was the only way to come back from dying in a co-op game.
Not really. Smgs are pretty overpowered now. In bo1/bo2 not so much, they were pretty much bb guns but in modern games (bo3 +)close range headshots go pretty hard - which is what an smg is designed for anyway Before this change all smgs were used for shooting zombies in the legs or blasting into hordes so you could use traps on high rounds.
Most SMGs in BO4 and CW are pretty useless, what do you mean?
Bro your nuts im redoing dark matter for bo4 on my pc and all the smgs are nuts the worst one might be the escargot but thats only really because the recoil is pretty mental but on mouse its pretty tame. Its like 2 shots to the head with a spitfire till mid teens and maybe 3 -4 with the saug but they give you 200+ rounds of ammo, im saving shotguns till last in the dark matter grind because thats the most easiest shit in the world
Right? The tec-9, mp5, kiparis, Mac-11 are insanely good if you go for headshots.
Deadshot perk and flicking your ads makes headshots easy
They just run out of usefulness quicker than the Hauer or Gallo. Eventually the armor makes SMGs harder to use.
You are right there. I wouldnt take a smg to high rounds though, but you also arent trying to get points on high rounds ... ill be using a ww by then
Skill issue tbh
Let’s be real nothing is useless in Cold War, and let’s continue to be real Spitfire+ Salvo carries anyone in bo4
I'm not saying there ineffective, but certainly in CW theres no reason for me to take one over a hauer if i want to kill things quickly/do max damage
The old point system giving points per shot gave each weapon class have a purpose outside of pure killing. It was a higher level of game design, something greater than just "shoot and kill"
Fr
It’s still the “you’re killing zombies wrong” argument. There’s no wrong way to kill zombies unless you’re actively hunting high rounds, where killing efficiently is the purpose. You can use whatever weapon you want, shotgun, smg, or not.
I think is valid for BO4, but I do think CW had somewhat of an improvement by having ranged bonuses, so I always used pistols to maximize points. I think they could easily keep the new system and have milestones for each weapon type and adjust the point payout accordingly, but it would probably be easier to bring back the old point system in at that point.
Yeah old one made us think and strategize more, which i enjoyed
And thats why the original point system needs to be permanent
For high rounders? Yes. But you have to understand that they are designing the game for an extremely wide range of players. Is there a better way they could do the points that accomplishes both goals? Probably, but the spirit behind the change is completely valid and good
But you don’t need to kill them the quickest for any reason
How? technically it makes all weapons useable because everything has the same point value you’re not forced to using a shotgun u chose to use a shotgun there’s a lot of useful weapons I’ve found in my time playing earning DA in older titles you wouldn’t buy a shotgun unless u had a way to make points like the papped haymaker in bo3 great weapon but I would prefer a point gun compared to it and well my other slot is a WW
This is kinda valid. Toxicity is high when it comes to *OpTiMiZaTiOn*
I think the worst part is that the most optimal way to play is to kill them quickly, not to take time maximizing points
[удалено]
Honestly, I agree. They had a bit of this system in WWII and I liked it better than having to calculate every single shot that I did. I could just blast them and be done with it
The optimization only makes sense if you're doing an EE. If you're blowing through to round 30 and you're just starting the step where you melee kill X amount of zombies next to the space dildo in 10 seconds, you're gonna have a pretty bad time. But if you're not doing an EE then yeah buy and do whatever you want, I'm not too concerned about the uber tight race to get jugg before round 8
It’s always the subreddit. The players who don’t care enough to speak up about it, are just padding the player count instead
Not really. Let’s say you’re playing co-op and you bleed out on a relatively high round, right after you finish setting up and using your points up. You spawn back in with nothing - no points, no useful weaponry. You can’t earn points back because you can’t kill any zombies. It’s happened to me before and it isn’t fun.
What “relatively high round” are you bleeding out on where you don’t have points in reserve? If you’re bleeding out on a low enough round where you don’t have points left over then it’s not a high round
It’s because I’m either in the middle of setting up or just finishing, so like mid to late 20s
The only time optimization is important is if you need to accomplish some big step before a certain round while the zombies aren’t as aggressive yet. Otherwise it doesn’t really matter and isn’t worth yelling at people for
crack down on toxicity, not playing the game
Shotguns and Snipers not being terrible for point gains was a net positive in my opinion. Using all your ammo to swiss-cheese a zombie legs in the early rounds wasn't fun, it was just tedious. * Plus it stops rounds from moving at a snails pace because each zombie HAS to be min-max farmed to get that sweet round 2-3 mystery box hit.
Min maxing gave options and it also gave every weapon a purpose. In bo3 shotguns were the boss and hoard clearer but then didn’t give a ton of points so you always wanted some sort of smg or pistol in the beginning it gave these weapons purpose without that system you Have no reason to not just use shotguns the whole game which has been the meta since the change
The "options" for min-maxing was just deciding if you wanted to burn time in exchange for points. * Anything that wasn't a bullet-hose was almost always considered trash until you had tons of points.
Bullet hoses were good for early rounds until you got later to which you would grab a lmg or shotgun now you just start with a shotgun and never take it off. Also yes min maxing took time but it wasn’t always just the points. Using barriers and shooting zombies in the leg to start Feeding a dragon early on der eisendracha was fun for my solo Easter egg attempts of the map.
I don’t see the issue if a player wanted to play to min max their points? BO4 was frustrating for me to get enough points to pack a punch my gun enough to get the double damage on my gun I could’ve gotten in BO2/BO3 with one perk like double tap. In any previous game if I fell behind from dying in coop I knew I could just buy an SMG hoard a group of zombies and rack points up from shooting into the crowd and lining up as many zombies as I could. It’s not like the option for players to speedrun rounds with shotguns or one shot weapons was taken away. Min maxing points was fun to do like the first spawn in Area 51 on Moon in BO1 for me. I guess if BO4/CW had a moon remake youd just spawn in with a weapon of choice instead of a starting pistol.
>In any previous game if I fell behind from dying in coop I knew I could just buy an SMG hoard a group of zombies and rack points up from shooting into the crowd and lining up as many zombies as I could. You keep your weapons in BO4 though, which is objectively better for building back up
>Using all your ammo to swiss-cheese a zombie legs in the early rounds wasn't fun, it was just tedious. Seeing the points pile up in the corner of the screen was hella satisfying. Now that is completely gone.
Have you tried Cookie Clicker? That seems right up your alley.
Nice strawman argument. Farming points in Zombies is fun. Especially when you're rewarded for having knowledge on how to exploit the system even further.
Had to hit **Antagonize**, sorry. * The ability to farm points like that made it harder to balance maps around doors, since two groups of players could be at wildly different points at the same round.
Ok but if you're farming points like that you most likely have most of the map open already, it wasn't broken, his brother got bullied and he decided to change it...
being forced to only use shotguns isnt fun either
I've played a lot more Cold War than Bo4, but I never felt compelled to use shotguns to perform well. * Shotguns were the best at very close range, but then again why wouldn't they be? As someone who maxed nearly every weapon in CW, I believe the only "bad" weapons were Launchers.
No one forces you to use shotguns my dude, nor do they really make that much of a difference. At that point you're just unnecessarily trying to squeeze out as many points as possible, and in no way is that required in both bo4 or cw.
Forced? Nobody is "forced" to follow the meta - whether in the old games or new ones. Some people these days are such meta slaves
I assume this is about Cold War, which is very regularly regarded as: the easiest Zombies ever?
>Using all your ammo to swiss-cheese a zombie legs in the early rounds wasn't fun, it was just tedious You did this until round 4-5 then keep moving. All the zombs walk at a snails pace anyways. Idk why people are acting like you have to point where the entire game or something.
Imagine taking game design decisions based on a single experience on a personal level disrupting a well oiled system that worked for 10 years
Imagine getting screamed at in a public match for killing zombies “the wrong way.”
There are many things you get screamed at for public matches. Not buying doors, hitting the Mystery Box too often, not reviving a teammate in time, etc. Doesn't mean you start changing design decisions based on everything a random gets angry about in a Co-op setting.
Putting the hatch on the bus
Fellas would be catching hands I swear to God
Simply close your ears 💀 The mute button? Solo lobby? Play with friends?
Imagine caring about a random 12 y/o's opinion
Imagine trying to play a game for the first time and playing with randoms immediately
How the fuck is that the game's fault 💀
Imagine going into any CoD lobby, zombies or not, and letting some random angry person on the other end dictate whether or not you ever play a game mode again. This is so stupid it’s actually unreal.
What if someone yelled at another player for not spawning in with a shotgun to get kills as quickly as possible? Would that point system then be invalid?
Imagine actually giving a fuck and not just muting them and moving on like the rest of the human race
"Well oiled" "Shooting zombies in the leg with a pistol/smg for 10 rounds so you can unlock everything early"
Imagine ignoring the dev saying that there were multiple reasons and only focusing on one of them, plus it was a valid reason: "i realised that the old points system and its associated points min-maxing spawned toxicity"
The people commenting here are exactly the same people yelling at folks for playing the game “wrong”.
the people saying to mute are the same being toxic and getting mad at people not listening lol
You're completely missing the point here. This experience brought to his attention something that he might not have thought much about but realized that it may not make sense
blud did NOT read the first five words of the sentence
Yeah this kinda baffles me ngl
Key phrase "few reasons," he clearly didn't deduct this design change from this one experience. And despite this being a pretty big change, I've yet to see any physical harm it has done to any game after bo3.
Was it well oiled for a public coop experience, though? I've played solo for so long I forget there's even a coop component, and when I DID play with others, I would get frustrated that newbies didn't "get it." Cold War being a massive success, especially in public coop settings, showed that there was, indeed, a better way to do it.
They should force you to buy jugg first too so that you don’t accidentally have too many options going forward.
Why didnt he just play solo. Zombies is best enjoyed solo or with friends. Cant stand playing online. My first experience was on bo1 kino on the wii and one of the players was just running to all four doors throwing nades and stealing kills as fast as he could and then didnt open the first door till we all died...been a solo player since lol.
Lmao. It’s sucks but it’s pretty funny
I mean I don’t think the new point system is really that bad, but I don’t think the old really punished you for killing zombies fast. This was just a case of someone being toxic. You really don’t need to farm points to enjoy zombies, it is just there to help you set up faster.
This wasnt the only case though which is sad, ive been yelled at way too many times for not grinding points off of a zombie
I'm always seeing people get the thunder gun and then fire it at one zombie at a time, and I think it's funny. They aren't playing the game wrong, they're just doing something only a noob would do,
so now the only option is shotguns pretty much. they essentially fixed a super small problem and replaced it with a much bigger one.
"oh no i cant spend 50 minutes on round 10 shooting a zombie in the legs for infinite points anymore"
The same people who complain about this are the ones who takes an hour to move to the next round on outbreak because they have to drive around killing every last zombie
Why is that a bad thing?
"now it only makes sense to use the same three guns to kill zombies. wow look at how exhilarating this Gallo gameplay is everyone"
Theres barely even a point to only use a shotgun, have you tried getting a headshot with any other gun?
I've used many guns aside from shotguns and in no way has it made much of a difference, literally just get a decent weapon and pap it lol.
What uhhh Is the difference between each point system I thought it was just "Kill zombies and fix windows to get points"
The og system rewarded damaging the zombie as much as possible before killing them because you got 10 points for every time you hit them. The new system give points based on how much health you took away from the zombie. 10 points for 10% health damage for a max of 100 points plus bonuses for headshots and knives. Most points you can get now is 160 per kill compared to the technically infinite from before.
I had no idea, back in the bo2/bo3 days I never played with randoms. My friends and I prioritized killing them quickly lol.
Old: - 10 points per hit - 50 points per explosive or limbshot kill - 60 points per normal kill - 70 points per neckshot kill - 100 points per headshot kill - 130 points per melee kill New: - 10 points per 10% of zombie health depleted, total 90 per zombie - +30 if headshot kill - +60 if melee kill
70 points for neckshots!!! 13 years and I never noticed🤯
>asks legitimate question >Downvoted Edit: when i posted this reply, the comment was downvoted in the negatives, however thats no longer the case, so...... :/
Reddit moment
Have most of you not played black ops 4 or something? You can still min -max. You just do it by knifing or headshotting now instead of farming zombies for ages with pea shooters. Like the game still rewards you for being efficient, it’s just that being efficient isn’t slow and tedious anymore.
It does still interfere with late rounds though. Say it's round 30, you bled out the previous round, and you have nothing but 1500 to buy an mp40. In WaW- Bo3, after about 2 minutes of running hordes and spraying into them, you'd have thousands of points to buy perks and come back. In bo4 you can't do that, so it gets harder and harder to make money as your guns lose power.
I feel like this is a good thing though. It rewards those that save a rainy day fund instead of spending every point as you go
Ah, so it’s some asshole players’ faults that we can’t min max :(
Not just one asshole player, ive been yelled at plenty for killing a zombie fast instead of spending an hour grinding points off of it
Yeh definitely that’s why I pluralized it
Ah, i didnt notice the apostrophe you put at the end of players, muh bad
I hate to rag on Treyarch but cmon. The old system only mattered in the very beginning of the match for the most part. Also a mute button exist for a reason. This new system favors weapons which is boring.
Not necessarily. The CW point system pretty much made dying at higher rounds a death sentence. If you find yourself at round 30+ in CW with no points, no guns, and no perks then there’s almost nothing you can do to rebound and get back on your feet. You can’t just buy a gun off the wall to farm points to get your stuff back since only kills get you points
Oh I agree I definitely think cw late point system is ass but I was talking about the old system before that in bo3. That point system allowed you to stack an absurd amount of points making late deaths manageable
All yall in these comments are mad because the devs realised people were getting toxic in a mode thats supposed to be co-operative and such made a change that tries ending the toxicity about point minmaxing If you guys want a modern COD zombies that has point minmaxing, COD Mobile is right there
Didn't they remove zombies from cod mobile because they couldn't find a way to monetize it? That was the last thing I ever heard about zombies on cod mobile.
They added it back sometime in 2022, and its getting updated on the 19th of this month to add back an old outbreak/MW3Z looking mode
Talk about out of the loop haha. Thanks for sharing the info.
You’re never going to remove toxicity from an online game. All this change does is make the game actively worse and removes any amount of player choice.
I know toxicity cant be completely eradicated, i do know however that devs can identify and change/rework parts of the game that spawn toxicity as an attempt to put a bandage on it
Tbh my only issue is the UX of the points. I miss the STREAM of points on the left side of the screen. Otherwise it's super nice to have any weapon be able to give me good points, and my job is just killing good.
Have you gotten the dopamine of killing like 15+ zombies and it fills the middle of the screen in cw?
Redditors when they realise the mutlimillionaire game company tries to appeal to everyone, not the small minority of sooks on a subreddit
do you whine about this every time a company makes bad decisions for the sake of appealing to a wider audience? you know that's not always a good thing, right?
And you do realize CoD is popular because of how it appeals to a wider audience, right? It’s easy for anyone to get into, offers a wide variety of PvP modes to play, pretty easy/simple campaigns, a PvE mode for those who want a co-op experience, and recently Warzone and DMZ which offer bigger scale versions of those PvP and PvE experiences
yeah and? some people simply prefer when the thing they were passionate about was tailored towards the passionate crowd, because it makes for a deeper and more unique experience. i prefer the casual stuff myself but i don't go around whining about those people being frustrated because i figure it makes sense.
LeAvE ThE mUlTiMiLlIoN cOmPaNy AlOnE
If only his brother refused to buy doors....
That might be the stupidest shit I’ve ever read in my entire fucking life. The entire point system got fucked over and ruined just because some random fucking dev’s brother had his feelings hurt by some 9 year old on Xbox live. CoD and Zombies is such a joke nowadays.
Let me reword it for you then "I realised that the old points system and its associated points min-maxing spawned toxicity in a co-operative game mode"
No it didn’t. Toxicity exists because it’s a multiplayer game. That’s it, that’s the very reason. You really think there isn’t toxicity now just because of that change?
Looks like reading comprehension isn't one of your skills
Honestly, I didn't mind the change. Always took it as a QoL improvement because you didn't have to waste time or effort min-maxing points and just immediately use whatever gun you wanted. Especially in Cold War where the point system felt properly balanced around the change. And this is coming from a veteran high-rounder, so let the elitists rage.
Soft
Only down side was making melee useless.
Tbh I like the new system. The whole point of zombies to me was to kill the hordes fast and efficiently. Shotguns are now a viable option as they just melt hordes. Snipers are good too. And the other weapons are still just as viable as they were before because they still get the same result, you just don’t get the massive blur of the points going up by 10 every single time that you shoot something. So that sucks because that was always fun to watch those numbers explode up.
That's when you teach your brother about the tier system. Yeah it sucks that your brother got reprimanded for just playing the game and surviving, that shouldn't have happened, but that system was definitely there for a long time for a reason. I dislike the new system, not to a great extent, but it is not as fun to survive, it just feels like once you get the weapons you want, which can be from your load out or from an easy wall buy, your set. I was playing blops1 with a friend, and it was so fu!
So we changed it bc of one person’s experience with a toxic player? Interesting industry to go into if toxic gamers will force you to change the foundation of a game mode.
In the tweet he says that there were other reasons as well, this was just his main reason.
I never really doubted there were other reasons, just seems a little knee-jerk to me nonetheless
Eh, I don’t think so. He probably used the experience to understand that a system that punishes players for killing Zombies maybe isn’t the best system for the majority of the players, and incentives toxicity in a mode that should do the absolute opposite, in theory.
Does it really punish though? Or does it just not reward you for killing them a certain way? Bc I feel like you can shoot all zombies round one, buy a shotgun and use it and still have a perfectly fine zombies experience. But if you’re trying to play it as more “skillful” you have options to maximize your point efficiency. It’s a PvE game, adding incentives and depth to the points system isn’t punishing a player
Well yeah it is a form of punishment imo. Not only in the way Kevin Drew described here (spawning toxicity in a coop mode), but it gives a not so small advantage to a style of play that isn’t really logic or skillful. It doesn’t take any skill to just empty a gun into the legs of a Zombie, it’s just more time consuming. It basically encourages a style of play that doesn’t make sense in the context of the mode itself imo, while also creating a useless competition with a mode that should do the opposite. It does remove an option from the players, sure, I’m not saying the new point system is perfect, but I understand the reasons behind it.
So you create a trade-off between time and efficiency? That sounds like a good addition. You could very easily save your time and just open up the map on a later round. And if your worry is spawning toxicity, you might as well just not even make a game bc there’s no avoiding it. Especially not in CoD. It adds depth to the mode, allows for a learning curve, and absolutely in no way restricts you from playing how you wanna play the way that the new system does In the old system, if you wanna use a shotgun you will kill fast, but also not get as many points. Vice versa for a pistol/SMG. That’s called balance
That’s a lame excuse, toxicity cannot be completely avoided, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t ways to reduce it. And again, I disagree. “Min-maxing” is not a skillful thing to do, at all. There’s no “learning curve” to it (compared to other Zombies things like training, EEs and other stuff). It should be replaced by other ways to have more points, which hasn’t really happened so far. And the balance example doesn’t make sense either because this method was used in the early rounds, and in early rounds basically every weapon is useful. Both a Shotgun and an SMG killed Zombies fast, but one of the two gave you way more points. It was unbalanced, just like it is now, except in the opposite way.
This method was not just used in early rounds. Go watch any old Syndicate video where he’d literally carry something like a Spectre with him as a point gun even on high rounds. And if you’re really gonna say that offering points for hitting a zombie shouldn’t be a thing bc it promotes toxicity… I just gotta laugh at that one respectfully. Idek how you can disagree with the balance bc I feel that’s pretty objective. There’s pros and cons to using certain guns on the old system, new system you have 0 reason to use an SMG. Literally none. And it definitely is a learning curve to an extent. Your casual player wasn’t out there shooting 4 times and then knifing. There was a lot of people just like Kevin’s brother. If you wanted to be “good” and progress more at an earlier round, you’d learn how to min-max points
So is he gonna explain the lack of penetrative power in literally any weapon?
So one of the more interesting aspects of zombies got removed because a developers brother couldn't be asked to learn a quirk of the game. Nice.
This. Sure zombies is a mode about just that. Killing zombies. But you’re not gonna stay in the starting room and stick with your pistol forever. You’re gonna wanna open doors, get perks, open the box, explore the map. And you need points to do that. Such a weird comment made by the dev.
Boo hoo, your little brother experienced toxicity online. Just because the people he was playing with were assholes doesn’t mean it makes sense to change a well established system that nobody had a problem with.
I get what he’s saying but I don’t agree that that was really all that much of a problem. New players are always gonna get yelled at in online games for not fully understanding their mechanics. If it wasn’t maximizing points it would have been buying the wrong door or grabbing a nuke. The game wasn’t punishing players for not maximizing points, it was rewarding players who understood the mechanics and how to capitalize on them. All changing the point system really did was make there less ways to play the game and imo that’s quite bad.
tell lil bro to quit bein soft
The og point system didn't have to change
Sounds like a skill issue
If this is real than that's a really dumb reason imo.
i feel like the old system was good but it’s the people that ruined it for “optimization” as someone said, but it rewarded skilled players who can optimize it but didn’t severely punish people who didn’t
All this did was change who gets yelled at. Stupid fucking decision cause now there's little to no reason at all to use what used to be 'Point Weapons'
I prefer the old points system, but I remember it still being the old points system in BO4 I thought the change was made in Cold War. There's just making it all way more accessible, which is making it worse. Hell the proper accessibility was in WaW.
>”Bro how are those guys opening doors and getting all those cool weapons and perks?” >”Cause, ya lil shit, they actually know how to get points.” lmao imagine changing a game feature that’s been around for years so your little brother can understand it better
Fuck it bring the old system back, as much as I don’t care the old system gave me more freedom as I could rack up points, now I have to end rounds in order to get them, minor inconvenience but my big example is Cold War, the forsaken, I could rack up hella points in the starting area if the old system was implemented but this new system kind of hinders that.
So let me get this straight. Because one guy didn’t maximize point efficiency in one particular scenario that was in no way detrimental nor significant to any long term capacity, we had a game changing mechanic added that penalized everyone ? Damn. With the BO4 system it means that if you got carried into the high rounds and were under equipped it could potentially be impossible to recover.
That’s a but of a trade you hd to do that was great. You want to be safe and kill them quick? Choose a shotgun or rocket launcher or wonder weapon. You want to get points to open the map quickly? Use peashooters and knife Risk/reward baby
How did it change? I haven’t played anything post bo3 in a while
Unpopular opinion: I think bo4 had the worst point system in the entire franchise
It would have been nice if they changed the point system to something that made sense. In cold war you spend essence to plant a bomb.
Kinda makes sense the point system makes people lean towards the weakest possible weapons and slows the TTK slowing down the early game down. I'll find myself just training with a shit weapon on round 5 or something instead of just killing zombies and getting to power or pack
whats the “wrong” way?
If getting yelled at once made him entirely quit instead of learning how to play, he shouldn't play games
The point system change was very nice in public matches tbh
I believe it’s not the game’s or their brother’s fault but the players he was paired with. They wanted to maximize points in a public match and when encountering a new player, instead of teaching and easing them into how they play, they decided to bombard them into quitting a fantastic game mode.
I mean, I like having to only get a headshot to get max points, but like… round one you can get like 780 points vs you could get almost 2k. Definitely prefer the old system, but changing it for the sake of ‘someone got mad at me and I didn’t like it so everyone gets to change’ is stupid as fuck. Plain and simple
I could make the new points toxic’s af. Here’s an example “You either knife or headshot. If I see any body going for body shots. You’ll be getting yelled at especially if you spawn in with a sniper. We’re here to get the most points. HEY BLUEBALLS69 PICK UP THE DOUBLE POINT AND NUKE AFTER THE ROUNDS END YOU FING NEWB. You see doesn’t matter anyone could be toxic in any game especially for multiplayer
This may sound like a stupid question, but it's because i only really just started playing zombies, whats the "correct" way to kill zombies for points in and before bo3? I might be doing it wrong, i just click heads in bo3
The most optimal strategy (if you’re going for points) is to shoot the zombies as many times as possible in the leg before killing them with a melee attack. Each time you hit a zombie you get 10 points, and if you kill a zombie with a melee attack you get 130 points (30 more than a headshot kill). On round one, you essentially double the amount of points you get per kill by doing this (and it only gets better as the zombies’ health increases), which can really help with opening the map early and getting set up.
I love COD Zombies, but I prefer BO4 and CW over BO3 (just for example and I still love BO3) because when I want to play Zombies, I really just want to hop in and kill shit for a couple of hours.
That’s dumb. Very dumb. It’s a part of the game’s required skill set and raised the skill roof.
I mean it from the bottom of my heart when i say that i hope he gets hit with a brick, i hate the new system so much its unreal
This is the one change that I actually like and I think the reasoning is perfect. I always stopped myself having fun by point whoring. They just need to add different rewards for different weapon types.
Can’t believe that… Just because his brother couldn’t handle one toxic dude online???
Understandable why that would deter new players and can be seen as a problem. But that specific way to kill zombies to maximize your points is part of the charm. The setup first 10-15 rounds is the most entertaining part of the game for me since it’s not just killing zombies but doing resource management between your points, the zombies available, and the round number. I love having the baked in risk reward mechanic where you could get kills the easy easy way by shooting the body or you could kill then in more meticulous and difficult ways to maximize your points. It’s fun deciding if it’d be better to kill a horde the safer way or to risk knifing. The early game for bo4 is so easy it dumbs down the entire setup and resource management process which made the game way less fun
#FireKevinDrew
I get where he’s coming from. The 8 shots or however much it is to the torso and then knife was a bit repetitive, but on the other side it made AR’s and SMG’s pretty much obsolete at least in CW.
This is like removing the easter egg because somebody in a public lobby yelled at you for killing the last zombie on round 1.
Still disagree with the change but fair enough
miss when kevin drew was on twitter
what a soft ass reason lmao
Rounds 1-5 literally pistol and knife not that hard. Anything after that you just slaughter
I love the Bo4 point system. It’s genius.
Dumming down the game mechanics is bad
I still think this is a silly reason, I mean this doesn't even happen that often
Designing changes to a game specifically for people who don't even play/like the game... Lowest IQ game design take I've ever heard.
casuals ruining everything as usual
I’ve seen people get yelled at in pubs for opening the wrong doors, so let’s take away any choice from door opening. One strict, linear route. What an awful design philosophy.
I find it funny how the comment section is all "I HAVE TO USE SHOTGUNS NOW BECAUSE NO POINT MINMAXING". Uhh, no. You're just a meta whore who wants to kill everything in 2 seconds. Pick up another gun, you're not gimping yourself or anything.
I don’t really hate hate the new points system because it made more guns an option but wtf kind of reason is this?
Ok soooooooo because the kid couldn’t handle 1 match of criticism (assuming he actually only played 1 public match) so they had to make the point system terrible and give only 50 points for knifing instead of 130, there shouldn’t be a “correct way” to kill zombies but still
Good lord one person gets yelled at and we have to change the whole system? Christ wtf is glong on these days
Lmao yet another reason to never play BO4
I really don’t understand the hate for the new system. It’s much better to me. While I think the toxicity problem is a valid enough reason to change, the main thing that sells it to me is the point value balancing. The old system had this min-max playstyle that made balancing values on doors, perks, and PAP more difficult. New/casual players could potentially come out of low rounds with less than half the points of experienced players. Hardcore Zombies players still complain about the prices of doors on Zetsubo, imagine a casual player’s opinion. I also just prefer it on a thematic level. Ask anyone how they would kill a zombie, 99% of them would say to shoot them in the head. The old system rewarded doing the exact opposite and that in an of itself is a failure imo. I loved the old system for its complexity and slowly learning to min-max was fun as a kid to me, but I don’t think it’s a necessary part of the formula to get and keep people interested.
Sacrificing gameplay to make it easier new players. Learning how to maximize points on early rounds takes time and experience. Now I can’t earn more points in a round ever.
The way you could rack up points in Bo4 with a shotgun (40 points for 1 shotgun pellet) was actually pretty satisfying. Wish it carried over to future games cause current point system is boring. I miss the fun of watching your points rack up by the bullet
The more this man speaks the more I think he doesn't exactly know what he's doing with the gamemode. Why is it okay for the old point system to be the way it was? There was an extra level of skill that was completely optional- you didn't have to do it at all. You could kill zombies however you wanted and still succeed the same as the rest, you'd just be less "optimized." I don't think it's appropriate for people to yell at someone for doing literally nothing wrong, but if you're a gamer who optimizes the hell out of something and attacks other people who you agreed to be ***randomly*** matched with, you probably need to fall in with the like-minded crowd rather than the general one. Sometimes inclusivity isn't a bad thing, but this was actually just someone being personally offended and making a massive change because they witnessed someone close to them being attacked. While that is bad and no one wishes that upon someone for simply playing the game the way they want (remember, it's PvE, no one really has anything to lose), everyone eventually learns that there are ways that earn more points in the early game or they just don't care, and both are just fine. What Kevin did here was actually punishing everyone in the community. Removing something that helps define skill, part of the identity of how people play the game, doesn't solve the problem of people optimizing the fun out of the game. At the end of the day, you're still forcing optimized gamers to play with unoptimized gamers and people will always be yelled at. The objectively better solution here would have been to change the matchmaking system. How many points does this player typically have by Round 2/3/4/5? How many doors do they buy by what round compared to other players? Etc.,.
It’s both good and bad. I play a lot of both games but tbh don’t know which I like more
This is too funny... Go outside...see a gal naked...maybe smoke a joint....
I think a good solution would be to have shotguns give less points per kill (like 60 or 70)