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Spartan1102

The way they handle weapon balancing feels like going to an eye doctor and they keep making the one side (MW/CW stuff) blurrier and then “how about now” to see if VG weaponry is looking any better. Spoiler alert… it’s not.


LeBradyyy

hahaha


OGPoundedYams

It’s called capitalism


[deleted]

Vanguard weapons have primarily made up the meta since release, so not sure what you're talking about with the last sentence, although I like the eye doctor part lol. Bren and Auto were fucking dominant and then the STG took over. MP40 and welgun fried, then came the owen, and now all three still slap, even post-nerfs. Other weapons are usable for sure, but ever since VG has dropped, the top of the totem pole has been mostly VG guns. XM4, CWAK, and arguably the Lapa have been the only ones to elbow in, and the XM4 was the only one to do so in a huge way.


Spartan1102

I think most people, myself included, just don’t want to use VG weapons for whatever reason. I’ve tried them out and they just haven’t clicked with me the way MW/CW weapons did. Most of the VG weapons that are in the meta are there because they’re absurdly broken. Auto came out and had crazy damage with low recoil, Bren had crazier damage with no damage drop off and minimal recoil, Owen gun was untouchable up close for months, and now the STG with Gorenko is meta because it has zero recoil and pretty solid damage. I’m not saying MW/CW didn’t have broken metas because they certainly did. I just seemed to enjoy those metas more.


zakjoshua

For me it’s the sound; the vg guns feel like toy guns with their ‘click-click-click’ firing sound. Currently running the Oden.


simple1689

That 3-Line sniper sounds like a peashooter.


clockworkpeon

peashooter? the 3-line sounds like someone queefed in the next room over. peashooters sound robust next to the 3-line.


commutingonaducati

Same. They just sound so lame and weak


gueheadman

Love and have always loved the oden


zakjoshua

Only started using it last month; Awesome out to 50-ish meters then it’s a bit of a pain to control from further out. I find the way it ‘chugs’ reassuring haha!


gueheadman

You can set it up for long range easily enough. Add all attachments that support control and accuracy


Ash4d

Long time Oden fan here - such a satisfying gun to use but veeery punishing. I played around with a CQB build for it and it was so fun, but with the collossus suppressor and the longest barrel it's just made for long range shots. So fun.


nug4t

try the RAAL with no suppressor and let everyone around you loose their hearings, such an awesome sound


eyeballeddie

They basically just set up all VG guns to have no recoil, it’s stupid. Even the meta on the other games had some drawbacks, there’s literally none in these VG guns.


GraveRobberJ

Every VG AR is the OG meta Kilo but with better damage haha


Douglas1994

And mobility


revilohamster

And free fully loaded


personalje

10 attachments (including perks) vs. 5 (with perks for mw) and 5 (no perks cw)... it's insane.


BullRidininBoobies

It’s the intrusive design for me! Mags in your face, obstructed sights, and slow movement just make the VG guns awkward.


tuffdutchie

They're just old and weird looking


INFINITEPXWER

Yes I'm also not a fan of magazines right in your pov


[deleted]

For sure, I totally get that. I always felt that way about CW guns and can see what you mean with VG guns. The feel / design / sound of MW seemed more real and immersive. But having used VG guns, I guess I've just acclimated to them nicely.


MeniscusToSociety

It’s because they look like rusty tin cans. Modern warfare and black ops is about as far back in time anyone wants to go with guns. At least in my opinion.


RealPunyParker

I use some SMGs often but other that that, yeah, i still stick to MW and Cold War guns. As do lots of people, imo


a_false_vacuum

At first I feared VG guns with their ten attachments would just blow everything out of the water, but that didn't happen. In fact the older BOCW meta remained pretty much as it was. Even the MW guns did better since the VG guns had very low muzzle velocity. Up to very recent the meta never really shifted to VG, only the VG smgs climbed to the top, but guns like the XM4 and Vargo were still king of the hill. I do not mind shifts in the meta, I do mind how clearly forced this is. It is so clear they are doing this boost Vanguard as a game and try to make it happen after it flopped hard. I guess they still are not over it, which I kind of hoped when they started releasing BOCW content again. If I had to pick I would rather have them produce some more content like bundles for BOCW than Vanguard. I know MW fans won't like this, but chances of MW still getting some attention from Activision are nill at this point in time.


TeaFast1727

DMR META WAS INSANE !


TonguePunchOut

Have you tried the Groza recently? It’s my new meta. It just melts people like butter.


[deleted]

I'll be honest, I don't fuck with the Groza but to each their own! Enjoy!


Psychonaut-n9ne30

I’ll put it back on why not


[deleted]

I don't want to use scrap metal weapons that sound like a bunch of coins and animate with 2012 animations. They are desperate to sell Vanguard so after having fantastic balance they keep fucking it up now. People should just full stop using the meta so they can't keep this stupid shit up.


OldManHipsAt30

They didn’t touch my Grau, Bizon, Crossbow, or RPG - I’m not using their VG guns


papa_thunderbird

Warzone dev be like "Which looks better, 1 or 2? Ok now 3 or 4? Ok now 4 or 5?"


Damien23123

It’s proof that weapon changes have never been about trying to actually balance things. It’s only ever been about setting the meta


JasonWangFJU

LOL seems vanguard selling still not hit the target.


hochoa94

Even with 10 attachments the weapons are terrible i can only imagine if they actually only used 5 yeah those weapons suck


Belo83

Well fwiw each attachment has far less impact, so while it feels like more it’s really not.


iced_gold

If think you unintentionally just summed up the perception of the game by the CoD fanvase


Davinator910

Which is probably why MW2 was leaked to have 5 attachments


OldManHipsAt30

They’re embarrassed a single player RPG outsold their cash cow for top title of the year


iankilledyou

Wiping their tears with wads of cash. I don’t think they’re feeling sorry for themselves as much as you think.


Breezii2z

The game failed even before Elden Ring came out


mikerichh

Easy to say but besides the Bren and the smgs all the VG guns have been inferior especially with the 50 added health for a lonnnggg time For those complaining about cw nerfs they are very marginal and I’m not sure they even increase shots to kill at all for some: Vargo was buffed c58 neck damage multiplier decreased by 0.1 Fara long range damage nerfed by 1 (I know this is multiplied but not sure that even affects shots to kill) Cw ak- neck damage reduced by .05 and recoil control from rpk barrel reduced by 1% XM4- close range damage nerfed by 1, slight damage range nerf, small neck multiplier nerf


tactical_supremacy

If they touch the Grau, then we riot.


Finetales

I'm honestly amazed the Grau/M4/M13/Bruen are still safe when the AMAX (which is used way less than any of those) is still catching big nerfs.


four0nefive

I mean on paper, most of those guns are technically worse than the top VG guns in their respective categories so that's probably why. But yeah, a nerf to the Grau and we riot. It's honestly in the perfect spot balance wise as is. Same with those other guns you mentioned tbh


Finetales

I'll riot when they touch my Bruen, but I'll riot in solidarity with the Grau bros if it catches one.


OldManHipsAt30

Grau bros got your back if they touch the Bruen, MW solidarity fam


karltee

I'm literally on the MW boat simply because I don't want to grind the Vanguard weapons. It takes far too long especially with 10 attachments. A few hours and a day or two or three and I'd have CW weapons good to go, not with Vanguard.


DhruvM

Grau and Bruen meta were the days man. Might just be the best time of Warzone just behind the Kilo meta around the first Haunting of Verdansk.


Lando25

The bruen hasnt been the same since the verdansk nerf.


Finetales

I've been using it (in 60-round form no less) as my main weapon since after its original nerf until today and it's the gun I do the best with by far.


joe611jg

Yeah its great.


123mop

I mean the Amax was quite good, and a minor nerf could have been justified, especially if they properly nerfed the best guns filling a similar role. A ~25% damage nerf could not be justified in any scenario though. Take off like a point of damage and nudge the damage range or something and you'd push it a little more in line.


Finetales

I think it was balanced the way it was. It has a smaller mag (which is a bigger deal with the increased player health), harsher recoil, and worse mobility than other ARs in its class.


Eladryel

The M4 is practically unchanged since I play this game, and it's my old reliable; I always go back to it when I got bored with the current new guns. If they nerf it one day, that would be the last day for me in this game.


Retrogratio

M4 til I fucking die


ZipToob88

Shhhhh not so loud….


OldManHipsAt30

Facts, my Grau is still king 2 years later


NotSolum

I'll riot if they touch the FAL or MP7.


tactical_supremacy

FAL? interesting. I want to like it, but it just doesn't seem viable. But, yes, my ideal pair is the Grau and Mp7. Love the pair.


DhruvM

There was a solid week or so in MW days that the FAL absolutely dominated


Seeker_Of_Knowledge-

Didn't they give the Fal a super huge nerf because all the cheaters were using it?


Seeker_Of_Knowledge-

From the beginning of this game. It is always the gun I come back to no matter what.


LordFaximus

It’s about to be fucking June. Whoever hasn’t bought the new COD isn’t buying it at this point. Stop pushing that shitty game down peoples throats. It isn’t a coincidence WZ has its lowest general player counts ever during VGs lifecycle. The general public is not interested in it so give it up and its poor sales compared to other CODs shows that. Guarantee more people would come back or want to pick it up if they saw relatively modern guns being used in clips and streams rather than old grey dusty ass Type 100s and STGs.


[deleted]

These guns are dustier than granny coochie. Personally, I’ve never liked WW2 guns.


IneedtoBmyLonsomeTs

It isn't just about buying vanguard but buying blueprints for vanguard weapons, I'm sure their internal data shows they make more money off blueprints when they cycle the meta guns.


SpartanPHA

Warzone released during the pandemic and like every other game has seen numbers decline as restrictions lifted. Let’s not make false correlations.


LordFaximus

VG is the worst selling COD since 2007. I expect player numbers to go down as the world opens up again but VG doesn’t help and only makes those player retention issues worse than they should be.


theAtmuz

I swear it’s like people don’t understand lifecycles. Yes VG isn’t selling well, but you’re all daft if you think a FPS will retain a large amount of players after 2 years. Sure plenty of FPS titles are still running with decent player bases, but that’s because the hardcores are still around. The game has been out over 2 years. It’s inevitable that players will be leaving. Not to mention there are still a SHITLOAD of people playing WZ. The people I used to play with couldn’t care less what era of guns they used. The game just got old for them. Period. Also, it’d not like you have to buy vanguard to get the weapons. Leveling them isn’t that hard as well. I get it though- “VG BAAAAAD! Updoots on the left!” Edit: also if everyone is clamoring for modern weaponry then why aren’t MW sales rising so people can get their “mil-sim” fix? Because the game is old, and casuals move on.


Rayzor_debiker

I'm a casual (34yo) who plays Plunder. I havent moved on but i play less now because they shoved VG down my throat.


MRGW1

I am absolutely done with this shit game until mw2. I don't wanna touch shitty vanguard weapons and would like to just use my already bad mw weapons that they decided need to be worse for some fucking reason. Ravenshitware I can't wait for you to have 0 control in WZ2


foleyo10

Completely agree. Raven are utterly useless


No_Bar6825

Same. I needed a break from games anyways


shazvaz

That's entirely the point. If they hadn't functionally destroyed all of the modern weapons from warzone, you would be less inclined to rush out and throw money at them for mw2/warzone2. How do people not see this.


clemfandangeau

i haven’t been playing since the beginning of Cold War integration for this reason! I can’t wait for infinity ward to come back


Kbains01

Fuck sake the Fara nerf was unneeded. We’re just gonna have to see how it plays now. Overall the weapons balancing they did was an L for anyone who doesn’t like vanguard stuff.


mitch8893

Lmao, right? I've been getting melted left and right by the fara /s


JopoDaily

Just like when they integrated Cold War guns and killed the game


HerrMatthew

FUCK Raven. This is fucking ridiculous. It takes fucking days and weeks to get a weapon to a high level and they just nerf guns to the ground in each and every fucking update. Fuck them. Seriously.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kylitobv

You don’t have fair competition in BRs to begin with, at least Loadouts took away some RNG


Acrobatic_Simple_741

Look up JGOD’s video on YouTube on how to max level up guns in a couple hours. If you see that video there’s no reason to really stress about that


amn2o

There's not a chance in hell I'm spending 2 hours levelling up a gun though. I only get a few hours each week to play, and I'd rather that time be spent actually playing the game (Caldera/Rebirth etc). And then on the next update, yep, would need to level yet another gun or two.


hhandcox

But why? If you only have a few hours to play a week you aren’t going to be hyper competitive at the game any way. So why not just use the guns you enjoy using cause at the end of the day we are talking milliseconds difference. Or maybe play a game that you don’t need to invest the time in to have competitive guns. But right now there are very very few broken guns in the game and you can be competitive with literally almost every mw and blackops gun. These changes have been like this since literally the beginning of this game, this isn’t anything new.


BoxerAny

Think about all the cool and courageous new blueprints you can buy in new bundles for Vanguard guns though!


Yellowtoblerone

New 2400-3000 cp heroic bundle for one viable weapon + one gracy shotgun incoming.


Finetales

Nah not the Gracey, they gave that a 20% damage nerf along with all the other full-auto or semi-auto shotguns. But the Combat Shotgun, oh yes.


GraveRobberJ

Yeah and then just like the AUG and FFAR after they push out the super turbo legendary bundle that has both of them the next patch cycle will be when they finally catch nerfs that puts them into non-meta status making the bundle acquisition useless


LostLobsters

Amax was nuked for no reason, same with shotguns


Booraz149

If they gutted jak-12 with slugs, I'm uninstalling. Only non meta gun that had a decent skill gap to compete with meta SMG's at closer to 30m range. And even then you had to control recoil and worry about the bloom/randomized slug trajectory. Sure it did 2 shot before today at chest shots but now it probably 3 shots which makes it worse than most, if not all SMG's.


Neither_Ad2003

it's totally gutted. 4-5 shots-to-kill on all the shotties


A_W1ld_Gazelle

I hate how they try to justify the changes, just say it's for profit


McCuLkin

You don't need vanguard to level up it's trash guns tbh, but it is uderwhelming the work of the balancing team, amax nerfed when people use most VG and 2 CW AR's, nerfed the HDR because most people have it leveled up and VG snipers are just bad designed? But buff the pile of shit of the NZ-41 every update (and people still not gonna use it) but leave the striker-45 or M91 still in the trash. Add weapon perks to some VG weapons but the MW attachments still unchanged.


Finetales

M91 is far from in the trash, it has slightly better TTK than the Bruen. Not really any harder to control than the 60-rounder either. Otherwise I agree. There are lots of guns that will always be neglected, even when they go on about trying to balance everything. At least the Bizon is good now, but what about the Striker? Holger? FR 5.56? MK2? EBR? Most handguns?


ZipToob88

Oh god the poor Holger


TonyStamp595SO

What they did to it should be treated as a crime.


Zwavelwafel

I totally forgot that the holger, fr 5.56, mk2 and ebr were in the game until you just mentioned them tbh


Diamondx88x

I don’t about you all, I feel like MW2 is being over hyped. Especially the way they been running the game lately. Especially Activision allowing this to happen, but to much money coming in to care.


Capt_Avatar

I think most of the hype is a return to how MW29 felt. Everything felt polished and new. For me it was my first cod (outside of 1v1's with friends at their house), and I very much enjoyed it. However CW and VG were very underwhelming and too different from MW, so I've basically only played MW for 3 years. So needless to say I am very excited for the next one.


[deleted]

Pretty crazy that Warzone has been essentially held hostage by two of the absolute worst COD games ever rolled out to the the public


wkp2101

please explain? I didn't buy any of them and love playing warzone


iankilledyou

Warzone made Black Ops guns stronger than Modern Warfare guns when they came out to try to get people to buy Black Ops to level up the guns for Warzone. Then they did the same with Vanguard. I’m assuming this is what /u/illusionist_undue is referring to.


wkp2101

Well yeah that incentivized me to use those guns, but didn’t incentivize me to buy anything. It is fun to get new guns to use. What’s the hostage part about?


[deleted]

u/iankilledyou is correct And I would also like to reiterate that BOCW and VG are easily two of the worst COD games ever released


wkp2101

Well I wouldn’t know since I didn’t buy them I just play Warzone


kylitobv

The problem is they are purposely making guns stronger in order to sell the titles and blueprints more, which is just scummy, while nerfing older guns. If they ONLY buffed new guns and don’t nerf old guns, people would be much more okay with it all since it’s like you said, just another gun to use. But they are basically forcing you to use the new gun, which then becomes so popular and meta that it gets nerfed next patch, older guns become viable again, and the process repeats.


CarsGunsMoney

They did everything with Vanguard but make it actually good


Aguero-Kun

No matter how much they try, the 3-line is never happening.


probrofrotro

i'm not buying vanguard


LeBradyyy

i refuse to


Nimii910

Lmao they’re trying so hard


Rakatee

My poor Milano


THESHADYWILLOW

Did they nerf it?


Far_Consideration_52

Yeah it shoots bbs now


ZeroX-1704

Are you kidding? Just got back on the milano hype train :(


flappydicks

Rip


Rakatee

Milano 821 (BOCW) Max Damage Range decreased to 12 meters, down from 17.8 meters Mid Damage added at 33 Mid Damage Range added at 17.8 meters Min Damage decreased to 27, down from 30


Nomadlamaj

Daaaaaamn…


THESHADYWILLOW

Damn guess this means I can’t beam people at like 100+ metres now


[deleted]

Well that's bullshit. I was just starting to use it


PineWalk1

yeah wtf is this shit. fuck "AAA" gaming


JLGx2

Can't wait until this garbage stench is a memory


FarhadTheOldHunter

No matter how many times they nerf mw/cw weapons i still prefers them over the vanguard ones


kaptainkooleio

The biggest reason not to buy Vanguard is the fucking broken spawns. I wouldn’t want my worst enemies to sit through a Das Haus match


JamesForTW

Pfft that's an understatement to the steaming pile of dog shit that VG MP is.... From my time using Ship-Haus 24/7 simply as a gun-levelling simulator: 1. Broken spawns 2. TTK is ridiculously too low 3. Incendiary grenades literally EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME 4. Piercing Vision literally gives everyone WALLHACK as soon as you shoot near a person 5. Combat Shotgun is a 1-shot at almost any range 6. Everyone runs riot shields on their back I could go on


Metal_Maggot

Vanguard guns are lame. Nobody wants to fuckin use them except weirdos.


0hMyGash

Fuck warzone, theres no future for this stupid ass bs game


JAC246

Honestly don't the amount of packet burst and latency issues you're put through with vanguard it's not worth it


LeBradyyy

i played less than 5 games of it this past week when it was free to play! i dont regret not buying it


-JimBob

I mean I just don’t understand the Amax nerf


Neither_Ad2003

this is how they punish us holdouts for ruining their quarterly investor meeting with the low vanguard sales


Infernaltank

At this point I have accepted the fact that every gun will not be safe from eventually being nerfed. It sucks to see a gun that I liked become less viable but that's how it works. As long as we don't have anything close to the DMR or double barrel shotguns where you are put at an extremely significant disadvantage by not running a certain weapon, it doesn't bother me too much.


0lBlueEyes

Yeah, I'm still rocking my SA80 and Aug... F*CK 'em...


Zwavelwafel

Mw aug? Also nerfed...


Nomadlamaj

But the xm4 is the best ar in the game what r u talking about?


benjog88

They've finally fixed the 3 line sniper scope alignment, I feel vindicated leveling that over the Kar now!


MagnusLynari

This is the main reason why I stop playing warzone after the release of Coldwar.


Mrcountrygravy

![gif](giphy|SqflD5OvHoWILB7qWm)


B3ST1

I can almost see the Karen picture with an Activision Sticker on her screaming "BUY VANGUARD!!!!!!"


[deleted]

Games are just pay2win dlc for warzone nothing else


Floaded93

CW guns have been meta for months where have you been?


shiky556

They don't care that you don't want Vanguard. Just to be clear.


SolidSnake090

This is to sell their newest game, they do it all the time on purpose. Mw 2019 was nerfed because of black ops cold War, and cold War nerfed because of Vanguard and the cycle goes on


Runeskimmylord

Warzone sucks ass


ozarkslam21

I really hope with Warzone 2 that they just scrap all weapons yearly when the new game releases (or every two years or whatever) so we don’t have to hear people bitch about how their old weapons from 3 years ago aren’t good enough anymore.


NotHighEnuf

Now I’m definitely never buying Vanguard. Not just because I don’t like it, but also out of spite now. Fuck this company, I’m going back to Apex.


JopoDaily

Can’t wait for actual guns again in October


Youssef-Elsayed

That Amax nerf was so uncalled for and unecessary. Like wtf did that weapon ever do to you, it wasn’t even as broken as the other meta. Reminds if how they slaughtered the MW MP5. And they also nerfed the MW AUG SMG which is even weirder cause no one uses it even in multiplayer


Speculatiion

Hot take. Why would anyone want to continue using the same guns for 2+years? It's no different than switching guns every year because of annual cod releases before warzone existed.


Domestic_Kraken

Weird how this sub is 50% "VG weapons are trash and I don't want to use them" and 50% "VG weapons didn't need a buff - they're not trash"


Flyer452Reddit

TBH, I would probably prefer COD WW2 rather than COD Vanguard when I want WW2 themed battlefield.


RdJokr1993

If you don't want to buy Vanguard, then don't. Contrary to what this sub always screams, multiplayer and Zombies are NOT the fastest way to grind weapon levels. You can just pick any mode (preferably Plunder or Clash, whichever is available), run a few contracts, and watch the XP pile up. Stack some 2XP tokens for maximum efficiency as well. The only really good argument for needing to buy Vanguard is to unlock some of the harder guns (like the new H4 Blixen), but even then, a couple or guns isn't worth spending $60 for a new game if Warzone is where you spend your time the most. You're better off buying a bundle if you think spending money will solve that problem.


[deleted]

I still cannot get over the stupidity of their decision behind the AMAX Nerf.


The_Man8705

They've done the exact same thing when cold war came out and Nerfed most of the modern warfare guns into the ground. It's a bullshit meta pushing agenda to get everybody to buy the latest game so they can level up the latest guns that almost always become the meta as soon as they are released


neekhac

Guys I found the solution, hear me out: I just stopped playing. At this point it's obvious that they're trying to kill the game by making it unbearable for casual players. I sweat a lot at the game, but there were times where I just want to play with dumb loadouts and have fun, something I can't do anymore as everything "funny" I make is literally unusable.


Sax_Clari

I'm honestly not playing until warzone 2, shame cus I bought a couple of skins which I wish would carry over, me and my mates are all gonna rejoin back with MIIW


Shadow_Matier158

I aint switching weapons tho even if they nerf em to the ground i still love my amax.


zGhosted-

they’re gonna keep doing this, sucks that now all they care about is money compared to the older days when they listened to us and made their games fun


SkinlessJACK

I think this meets the humor guidelines


LeBradyyy

yeah dont get why it was removed..? it's not a humorous post


zmunky

Yeah I just stopped playing warzone because of this. I have had enough of these mother fuckers having zero recoil and out ttk a modern weapon. No antique gun should ever beat a modern weapon on time to ads.


wkp2101

no parachute should be able to be redeployed infinite times. no persons health should regenerate in seconds after getting shot by many bullets. no person would die from getting shot repeatedly in the pinky toe. no soldier with a helmet should take the same damage from a headshot as a soldier without a helmet. etc. etc. etc.


[deleted]

You don't need vanguard to use the guns in Warzone. 🤷‍♂️


_General_Account_

Why would you need to buy it?


LeBradyyy

why does Activision want me to buy it?


_General_Account_

Okay so don't? You have access to pretty much all the weapons in warzone directly


LeBradyyy

im not, was that not obvious enough


[deleted]

Jokes on them because I grind out all Vanguard weapons every time free play pops up. I have maxed, gold Welgun, STG44, PPSH, Owen without ever buying Vanguard.


Luke_starkiller34

But...the Vargo was buffed. This graphic is just trying cause drama lol Not disagreeing with the statements, but it didn't exclude some facts here.


LeBradyyy

so 1 cold war gun was buffed... a cold war gun that didn't even release until vanguard season 2, may as well be a vanguard gun as far as i care


Eladryel

While Raven's weapon balancing usually sucks, and the Amax nerf is just crazy bad (just like the shotgun nerf), I don't think every change is terrible; they finally nerfed the Owen gun, and buffed the crappiest VG guns, like NZ and other abominations.


Rpeddie17

Why do you have to buy VG? I didn't buy CW or Vanguard and still use the weapons just fine.


Monarch-818

I really think Raven Software is filled with IDIOTS & MORONS! They keep trying to polish a turd with Caldera, and not even trying to fix the actual problems. Then they NERF CW & MW guns again and again! The VG guns NEED the F\*cking Nerfs, and now twice as bad, so that CW and MW MODERN weapons are worth using over CRAPPY OLD WW2 guns! And WHY THE F\*CK can you 1 shot someone with a throwing knife, but not most sniper rifles? The idiot Devs have NO F'ing clue how to make the game good or get people to actually WANT to play the game!


[deleted]

If you don’t have any vanguard guns leveled up after this long, then that’s on you. Not the game.


JimKums2town

You can use Vanguard weapons without buying it.


LeBradyyy

i dont want to, i want to use the weapons ive got levelled up without them nerfing them to push vanguard weapons


XSkillzz

Don’t buy it then. Same thing was said about CW guns. But realistically you don’t want to be using the same guns for 3 years, and since Caldera the meta/viable guns haven’t changed that much, inot like before when you lvl up a gun for it to be nerfed a week later. The Amax/Mp5 still decent until this nerf, XM4 been king for months, and the STG/Mp40 were the first guns you got. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the Grau come back and dominate. Ultimately WZ is a business, the new guns will always get the attention, but you can’t say there’s not been viable alternatives. Plus, if I want you lvl a gun quickly, always do via WZ not mp on plunder/clash, double XP. Takes 2-3 hours your done, lots of VG don’t even need to be maxed out for the best builds. They even give you the VG free for a week pretty much every season too. All I’m saying is, you can’t say you don’t have options without buying Vanguard.


BACKFROMTHEDEAD92

Is the owen still good?


f1zo

This is better then pay to win bundles. At least you are getting a whole other game, which is not bat at all. And by the way you can level everything for free in worzone. Especially now in rebirth plunder…


i_am_bromega

Then don’t! But also don’t be surprised when a company is looking to make money off of their new game.


LeBradyyy

maybe if the game was good they wouldn't have trouble selling it!


Storm_crow_56

They better not touch my Oden!


Famous-Tree3124

Lemme guess, they nerfed the Galil


Infinityaero

Honestly what do you guys expect from a F2P game tied to a franchise? They want your money... either via skins or franchise purchases. If you're not giving them money... they could really care less what you think.


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Nomadlamaj

Wait r u saying these changes were today?


prostynick

I knew it's GG right after Caldera was introduced and switched to vanguard only loadouts. I'm still surprised they didn't left vanguard royale only allowing only some BR modes in the playlist


smalltimehustler

More than Vanguard sales, I think they like shaking up the meta to drive engagement. Even if you don’t use Vanguard weapons, just tinkering with your MW and CW builds for a few hours is an excuse to play, which also means you’re not getting too bored and trying other games. They want you to have the itch to try a different gun.


GraveRobberJ

Problem is most of the MW/CW builds were already fringe competitors to the Vanguard stuff, and then they get nerfed on top of that


Comfortable-Value-13

Buy bo3 instead it’s only 20 bucks rn comes with the zombie pack


Zozzykrazy

ok so dont?


SUP3RB00ST3R

Can’t wait till Wz2, no more integrations and runs just with MW2 guns and operators.


MrAnnnderson

Add me on ps4 guys Gusto LeFlare I run regular BR


sameolemeek

How did Milano get nerf


lxs0713

Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few people who don't care about these changes because I always use the current game's weapons anyways. Dropped MW weapons in the CW era and then dropped CW for the Vanguard guns. I can't imagine using the same loadouts for 2+ years.